39 - Thanos-Snapping My 10th Edition Lists

In this episode of the "Grown Men Playing With Toys" podcast, Erik and Steve dive headfirst into the early days of 11th edition.  Fresh off the MFM drop, deep in terrain mechanics, and (for one of them) staring down a freshly nuked wasteland of 10th Edition lists, the guys approach the discussion from a perspective of "there's a green field of list-building possibilities".

Along the way they cover:

• The Hidden Mechanic That Isn't — a deep dive into terrain's new Ballistic Skill penalties, the "hidden" rule and why it may not be as good as it looks
• Run and Gun, Move Shoot Move — how cover changes are about to reward fast, mobile armies, and punish anyone who can't find a re-roll
• Thanos-Snapping the App — app crashes, the gut-wrenching decision to delete 40 lists, and why starting from a clean slate turned out to be a blessing in disguise
• Carnival of Excess, Reimagined — Erik breaks down his rebuilt Emperor's Children list and how losing his old lists led him somewhere he never would've gone otherwise
• Surprise! Steve Built a List — Steve unveils a Votann Death Star list built around Einhyr Hearthguard deep strikes, double Land Fortresses, and a dare to come take his objectives
• To Infinity and Beyond — Erik's list-building bender reaches an absurd, slightly concerning number and Steve has thoughts

Whether you're rebuilding your own army from scratch, still mourning your favorite 10th edition list, or just want to hear two grown men argue about whether Purge the Foe is actually the best Force Disposition or just the most comfortable.....this one's for you.

Check out our other content: https://gmpwt.blog/ | https://www.youtube.com/@GrownMenPlayingWithToys

Transcript

Intro

SPEAKER_00 0:00

There was a bug in the app yesterday where if you attach a leader to a unit and then try and delete either the leader or the unit without deattaching them first, it would crash the app and you just couldn't get back in. And of course, that happened to me.

SPEAKER_01 0:55

All right, Eric. What have you been up to?

SPEAKER_00 0:58

11th edition. Um, I mean, we we are very, very close to having the full picture. We got the update to the MFM yesterday, so I've been pouring through that now that we know all the detachments, all their detachment point costs, the potential combos, the new points. So I have been neck deep in list building and just trying to read everything I can get my hands on.

SPEAKER_01 1:25

Like nerd Christmas, isn't it? Like I I feel like I you know what? You know what GW should do next time they release an edition? The month before like everything comes out, they should do like an advent calendar where we each get like a a little mini or something, and you gotta pay, you know, you pay $250 or whatever a box costs.

SPEAKER_00 1:46

I mean, they basically did the equivalent of that for the past month where they would give you a drip feed of preview a faction a day, and then they transitioned into we're gonna preview the force dispositions, but we're gonna do one, like we'll do chaos one day, we'll do space marines another day. So they've been doing a version of that.

SPEAKER_01 2:08

I mean, I I feel like I'm giving them pure gold here, right? Like, you know, in our tens of thousands of followers. Sorry, let me pause while I joke about it. I did that one at tens. So, you know, if one of them happens to be, you know, some big wig at GW, like, hey, can you kick us something maybe here, like on the side? Like, because I think this is a good idea. Come out with a release advent calendar where you can make like special edition little minis and you put them in there, and each each day leading up to the full release of the thing, you know, you pop the little pop the little box open and you you get your little character, and it's something about that character's uh well, it doesn't even have to be a character, it can be just like anything, a unit guy. Um something about their armor. Yeah. Something stupid, you know, or like a grot, right? But it's like a special little grot.

SPEAKER_00 3:11

You're just describing grotness.

SPEAKER_01 3:14

Yeah, but I'm giving them a much better way of doing it. In my opinion. There you go. Oh man. So no, I'm I'm super stoked about 11th. I'm I'm ready to, you know, to kind of sink my teeth into it. I think I think I I you know, there's still a couple things that that I think I wanted to kind of pick your brain about.

11th Terrain and Hidden Debate

SPEAKER_01 3:39

Um one of them is being, you know, there's there's some things that are happening with terrain, um, and the mechanics of the terrain that I think is kind of interesting to me. Um terrain's one of those things to me that like I often find myself still checking every time. Like, hey, if they're in terrain, what happens, right? Or they're considered in terrain, right? Or something along that line. Like, I feel like in 10th I understood it, but I always felt like I had to keep checking it. So when um when I was reading up on some of the mechanics, um, you know, of the tur the terrain changes, if you will, um I don't know. I just I found it kind of interesting because I'm I'm not really sure I understand the benefit or the disadvantage to some of the things. So, you know, in in reading up on it, right, instead of like the standard plus one to armor saves when you're taking cover, right? Now you just get flat negative one to the attacker's ballistic skill. Um, additionally, things like infantry and uh I think beasts, I'm not sure. I think maybe beasts for like the orcs count too. Um, but they they also can get this like hidden mechanic aspect to avoid being, you know, shot with inside of a certain distance and things of that nature. So there's some stuff around terrain that I think that they're they're really kind of thinking through rather than just kind of what felt like intent was just like a bumper sticker of hey yeah, terrain's a thing, but um, there's there's so many other buffs and things that it really doesn't matter. So, you know, plus one, but then you get negative one for this thing, so you know, whatever. It's kind of just you're straight up on your your data card, and that's what it is, right? That's kind of to me how it always felt with 10th. I don't know. What's your thoughts?

SPEAKER_00 5:44

Um, I mean, I I like what I've seen on paper. I have not experienced it on the table yet. I this is funny because you're going deep into the rules on terrain, and my knee-jerk reaction is I'm just excited that we'll have boards where it's not we're all fighting in new downtown New York City and it's all just L-shaped ruins. So I yes, yes, Eric, come to the dark side. I from what I've seen of the rules, they all make a lot of sense to me. I think that hidden probably won't matter as much as it appears when you first read it, unless you stay in your deployment zone, in which case you might have bigger problems. Because you know, so it basically what I like about it is I think they pulled in the best parts of 10th edition terrain, the using the footprints, determining true line of sight off of the footprints, so that if you're hiding behind a terrain footprint, but not towed into it or not inside it, you're you're obscured. It's like that goes up to infinity. I like that that's still a thing. I like a lot of the layouts where they've got a big footprint mostly in the middle, so you can't just shoot across the entire board. I like that they're selfishly as someone who plays a lot of fast-moving armies. I like that they've adjusted how heavy terrain interacts with big units like Fulgrim that can fly, so it's no longer I have to break out like a slide ruler or protractor and try and measure the angle and calculate like just nope, take two off the top. That and he is taking to the skies and he's flying over the terrain. I like that interaction a lot. So I I'm generally very much in favor of it. I just think with the hidden thing, so the the rule is if it's infantry beast or swarm and you go into terrain, you can gain access to hidden. But most of the terrain seems like it's gonna be in the midfield, and hidden only activates if the opponent is fifteen inches or more away from you. That sounds like it's it sounds great on paper. I just question how much if you hide in a piece of midfield terrain, are you really gonna be hidden through the other person's turn because they'll get a chance to activate, and uh you know, I don't foresee in a place where most people can stay more than 15 inches away of a unit that really wants to get at them.

SPEAKER_01 8:32

So okay, so this is why I kind of wanted to pick on this a little bit because the way that I read it at face value, and and and I'm gonna tell you right now my brain, and my brain, I I I don't know, I'm kind of arguing with it at the moment because I'm like, nah, that's stupid. Like, why are you even thinking that way? But I am thinking this way, right? So you have a unit that's more than 15 inches away, right? And they're hidden, right? Blocked by a terrain. Now, on the other side, right, it's the opponent's turn, they make their move. Say they have a unit that can advance and charge, right? And so they make their move and they're 16 inches away. So they make their advance roll, they advance up. Because that unit was 15 inches away. Don't you have to have something to charge into? But if they're hidden, potentially, you don't know that they're there. Oh, hidden is shooting only.

SPEAKER_00 9:37

See, I tried to look that up, but I couldn't find where it specifically said shooting only. Well, and also you can't declare a charge into something that is greater than 12 inches away. So hidden doesn't matter because if if I'm greater than 15, I'm also greater than 12, and there's no 3D6 charges.

SPEAKER_01 9:57

It's fair. I I was only thinking on an advance and charge, but like I I am feeling like some of those types of mechanics are being thought of way better. I don't know why.

SPEAKER_00 10:12

It just feels that way. I think the advance and shoot, I I think generally what this is gonna drive, and I am all for it, is it's gonna drive a more interactive play pattern because you're not just gonna be able to stay in your deployment zone and take pot shots at your opponent.

SPEAKER_01 10:32

Yeah, yeah, for sure. I I I agree. I'm just saying, like, if there's an aspect of, you know, it it feels like maybe in the past, like things like terrain and stuff like that have been like a 2D aspect to the game. And now it almost feels like there is this like 3D aspect to it. I I don't know if that's making sense.

SPEAKER_00 10:52

It is. I I think it's uh let me echo it back because I think it's in a way that's slightly different than how you're describing it. So I think the 3D aspect is a couple fold. One, now in addition to providing benefit of cover that was on the saving throw, it provides it on the ballistic skill, like you said, which is gonna make it a lot tougher for you know, now a space marine would be hitting on a four if they're shooting at you. So I I think it's gonna drive one from an army choice perspective. As much as folks complain that 10th edition, the opening line was like, we're gonna have less re-rolls, everyone's gonna go find anything in their codex that gives them access to hit re-rolls. Because if I if I'm having to take minus one to ballistic skill because you're in terrain, I'm gonna go find anything that I can use to try and improve those odds. Because I, you know, if you're playing like admec or even your I mean Votan, you get the counter of their rule if you're in hostile acquisition, where well you're on an objective, I get plus one ballistic skill shooting at you, so it net net cancels it out, but it like orcs is gonna feel terrible because everything's hitting on a six. So it there's there's that aspect where it'll drive more re-rolls and it'll impact how you're list building. The other thing, if I flip the way you were describing it from advance and charge, I think it is gonna necessitate a lot more fast gun. So it's gun and gun tactics. If I know that you are hidden from me, you can get easy access to hidden and easy access to minus one ballistic skill. And if I can't get within 15 inches of you, I can't do anything. Well, now I'm gonna want to look for anything that has more than five or six inches of movement, access to advance and shoot, or the assault keyword. I think move shoot move is gonna be huge. The potential to poke your head out, shoot, and then pop back into like so. If let's say that we're playing and you line up and you are hidden, but I can I'm playing Grey Knights and I'm playing my interceptors, which their their data sheet ability is they can move, shoot, move because they've got personal teleporters. And they move 12 inches because they're jump pack units. So I move them up and I move them so they're 14 inches away from you. I shoot you, and then I say, I'm gonna use my data sheet ability, and then I go backwards six inches. So now I'm 20 inches from you, and if I lined it up right, I can back into terrain, and and now it's gonna be very difficult for you to come back out and interact with me. I think those kind of things, and I I need to go deeper on the rules. I don't think you get hidden once you activate, but it's gonna be really it. I I'm interested in how it's gonna impact list building because I think you're gonna see a lot more wanting to chain movement and shooting shenanigans together. And I think tying it to kind of the MFM release from yesterday, a lot of what I saw in things that you know everyone was saying got nerfed. You know, anything that has the ability to go fast or teleport around the board, anything that has access to re-rolls, anything that has access to ignores cover, which includes psychic, those all seem to universally get a points increase, which tells me that GW, through their playtesting, found that the biggest change due to cover is if you're a fast gun, you're gonna be more lethal, and everyone else is gonna absorb the impact of the cover changes much more.

SPEAKER_01 14:59

Well, to me, so so the my brain, right? To me, I started thinking about well, okay, well, what does that mean to me, right? Like like minus one to my ballistic skill. So you're going in kind of the direction of a fast moving get in, you know, jump out, shoot, jump back in type type tactic. To me, and and to your reroll point, right? I agree. Rerolls would be very, very important in that situation. I'm looking for anything that ignores cover. I am looking for anything in my list that I can have that ignores cover. So to me, I think that's something as a Votan player, for instance, right? Uh, my land fortress ignores cover, right? It's one of its, you know, key characteristics. Wasn't, I mean, it was it was a good thing in tense, don't get me wrong. But I think the value just went through the roof, right? Uh, on making sure that I'm playing Hecatons, um, you know, in my lists and what that looks like, because they that does give me an advantage that I can, you know, ignore that cover, ignore that hidden capability, and and be able to shoot through that minus one. So as a Votan player, I was like, oh, this is this is interesting. Now this has changed my perspective on the Hecaton um a little bit, given you know what it was, you know, towards the end of 10th. Not saying it was bad, I'm just saying could have been better.

Terrain is the Objectives

SPEAKER_00 16:28

Also, I think there's another huge change that goes along with it, and since we're on Votan, that really is gonna impact Votan and a lot of other armies in a really good way, which is the for the midfield objectives, typically it's the maps are looking like you're gonna have one really big piece of terrain in the middle, and then two medium to larger pieces of terrain on each flank, and then some some smaller light terrain sprinkled throughout. The three biggest pieces are also the objective. There is no longer the the hockey pucks objective markers that are are down on the table, which means if the objective is bigger and you have rules that stipulate that you interact and get better when you are shooting at things on objectives, like the Votan with their hostile acquisition phase. Yeah, yeah, that means that just more of the board is eligible for your rule.

SPEAKER_01 17:29

Yeah, I I mean, I'll be honest. I I after reading some of the things that came about of the Votan, like I'm ready, I'm preparing myself for the nerf bat that could potentially be coming.

SPEAKER_00 17:44

I don't I'm not sure. I mean it it's so early, and I have to do that.

SPEAKER_01 17:48

There were a couple things there were a couple things that I was like, like like now um uh now the hearthguard covenant, right? That force disposition, giving the hearthguard a chance to do a six-inch deep strike, yeah I don't know. That that to me maybe maybe it's uh heresy to the to the kin, but I don't know. I think there's gonna be some things that are gonna get looked at. Also, the Hecaton being able to ignore cover, I also think is gonna be something that gets looked at too. So but again, I think these new terrain characteristics like you're describing, about how how they play a role into, you know, now they're the objectives and things like that. It it is kind of 3D chess like aspects that I think that they're adding, and and um, you know, I I also like the fact that they've come out and said that they're play testing more too, which I think is really good.

SPEAKER_00 18:50

Yeah. And it's I mean, I hear you on the Votan. I guess my my reaction of the I'm not sure is I think there's also uh I'm not saying it's equally balanced in all factions, but like so yes to everything you said on the Votan. I can also trot out Grey Knight Warpane Task Force, which because the majority of their weapons are psychic weapons, I ignore all of the penalties to to benefits of cover. If I'm playing my little purifier units as batteries and I stay within aura range of them, I get re-rolls of hits. And for my purifier squads, especially the big brick that I play with Castle and Crow, if you're standing on an objective, I can reroll the entire wound roll. So like there's as much as I hear in the Votan, I think that there's quite a few armies that have similar access. And and we're also only thinking about it in terms of an I kill you game. We're not thinking about it in terms of like we're both thinking about it immediately as like a purge the foe or a disruption type of game. Those are only like two of the five force dispositions.

SPEAKER_01 20:17

That's fair.

SPEAKER_00 20:19

So I which that part of interacting with terrain, the other thing that I think is really cool, and it has less to do with the rules of it, but the way the maps are laid out, there's not a whole lot of terrain in each player's deployment zone. So there's a lot of big empty spaces in the backs of people's deployment zones.

SPEAKER_01 20:40

Yeah, I I I think for me that's a scary thing, a little bit about 11th.

SPEAKER_00 20:46

Uh I got another one that's do you want to know what the deep strike screen out range is now? Sure. It's eight inches, it's not nine anymore.

SPEAKER_01 20:58

I know. It doesn't matter. Josh will put a katan back there anyway.

SPEAKER_00 21:03

I I was gonna say, you better get comfortable with being uncomfortable with people deep striking into your deployment zone.

SPEAKER_01 21:10

Well, I think that I think it changes fundamentally, right? Because of the terrain layout, the way that they're doing objectives now, right? Maybe while your deployment zone is still important, it to me it kind of fundamentally changes your thought process about what you're protecting, right? So, you know, while there are still you know secondary aspects where they get into your deployment zone or they hold all corners or they're you know whatever it is, right? Um, you know, you got to think about those things, but it's it's not the same as like, okay, well, this was my deployment home objective, and I better build a fortress around that. And they're gonna castle up on their side, and the two castles are now gonna lop shots at each other. It's it, I feel like it's pushing things more. Towards use the whole map, right? You have to use the whole map. That part I'm actually not scared of. I am very excited about that. Because my biggest worry was that I was going to over and I I did this in the All-Star game in 10th, overcommit to protecting my home objective or my deployment zone, and then lose out on abilities to navigate the midfield because I stretched myself too thin. That was always that's always been my crux in in the last two editions, really. So something where they're saying, no, no, no, no, play the whole map. You you have to you have to get out of your deployment zone. Oh, by the way, there's no safe hold in your deployment zone anymore. I feel like that's gonna push me to actually being a better player, a more rounded and versatile player.

SPEAKER_00 23:00

And how that interacts with the force dispositions, I'm super interested to see that play on the table and to get some first-hand experience because my instincts are telling me that you're also gonna get, and maybe this is the third dimension that you were talking about, you're gonna have the how the different armies interact with the terrain and the rules of that. There's the how you interact with the board and the fact that you may be driven to interact with more of the board, and also the how the force disposition flips those things on their head of how aggressive do you have to be about interacting with the whole board versus how much do you have to play more of a conservative game? Those parts I find, and how much you need to focus on killing versus just being places and doing actions. I find that part very, very, very interesting.

SPEAKER_01 24:00

Yeah, it's gonna be a lot of fun to start playing a couple games and and and just seeing how all this stuff works. And I'm prepared for you know a couple lengthy games where we can discuss these new mechanics and kind of break them down. Um, I think it's gonna be a lot of fun. I I haven't quite gotten to the list building and things yet. Um I just I don't know. I haven't haven't got there. I'm still digesting. I'm still digesting a lot of the things that are coming out. Um, but but I'm excited. I I I I genuinely am. I think this is gonna be really cool. Um, you know, I I'm I'm very hopeful, I'm very optimistic.

Force Dispositions Culture Shock

SPEAKER_00 24:45

I I'm super interested in how all these things interact, and I I also am anticipating a little bit of culture shock because the the way the primary missions through their forced dispositions interact with each other, and the fact that the players will be playing an asymmetrical game instead of we both show up and we're you know, I know that you're playing the exact same mission as me, and therefore we're both kind of trying to do the same thing. The asymmetrical nature of it, I am very, very excited to try that out. I also anticipate, though, that some of the like the lists that if I try and carry them over from 10th edition and just say, oh, I'm gonna trot out my same list because it was great in 10th edition. I'm anticipating that there are gonna be some stumbling, you know, kick-in-the-shin type moments of it doesn't work anymore because of the asymmetrical nature or because the force disposition is driving that army to do something different. So I I'm both excited and anticipating some unhappy moments as I go through that cycle of learning how to play the new sets of missions.

SPEAKER_01 26:07

So hold on. I'm gonna tap on something you said because the minute you said it, I was like, ooh, that's good. Culture shock. I feel like that is a good way to explain some of the things that I'm seeing people in the community experience right now.

SPEAKER_00 26:28

Yeah, yeah, I'm with you on that one.

SPEAKER_01 26:32

Um I get it. I I mean I feel it too, right? I I think there is some culture shock, right? I think a lot of people are already starting to look at the things that are happening, what's getting released, and you know, and their first instinct is well, how have I been playing this, right? How have I been doing this? Um, I guess I kind of just did that with terrain a little bit, right? Um and and I think that that initial kind of shock factor of whoa, well they released my points for this, and they released what you know what my force disposition is gonna be now with this, and it's different than I played before, and oh my god, this thing's gonna be terrible because it's just not the way I've done it, right? I think I I think that there's there's gonna be this period, I mean, um, where we're all gonna be kind of in that that aspect. I don't know, the light bulb went on when you said that. I'm like, oh, that is the proper word to use for what I feel like we're gonna go through for the first couple play tests of these games.

SPEAKER_00 27:41

I think it's gonna be more than the first couple play tests. I think it's gonna be potentially the first year, like yeah, multiple data slates worth. Yeah, I agree. I'll

Someone Thanos-Snapped Their Lists Away

SPEAKER_00 27:51

share a story uh from yesterday, and it was one of those like it was insanely frustrating in the moment, but I think it's actually gonna be a blessing in disguise, and I'm already seeing the benefits of it. So I wake up early morning yesterday, get the kids out of the house, check, see that the MFM has been released. There's an update to the app. I get all excited, I've got a little bit of time before work really gets going. So I update the app and I check out the MFM, and I'm like, oh, I'm gonna start changing around some of my lists, and I'm you know, here's some ideas that I've been what ifing, I'll I'll take a look at them as I put them into the app. And for folks who aren't aware, there was a bug in the app yesterday where if you attach a leader to a unit and then try and delete either the leader or the unit without deattaching them first, it would crash the app and you just couldn't get back in. And of course, I that happened to me because I was rushing through it because I was so excited. And you know, so I I looked up how to fix it and it said uninstall the app. And oh, by the way, if you do it, you're gonna lose all your lists. And so I had this moment where and I sat on it for like two hours through the day yesterday, just thinking of the all right, what's the trade-off here if I wait for the app to get updated? Because obviously this is a known fix. Do I wait it out for them to fix it, but then I'm losing a day where I can geek out about this? Or do I just bite the bullet, delete the app, reinstall it, and accept the fact I'm losing, and because I play too many factions, probably about 40 total lists. And I decided to bite the bullet, delete the app and reinstall it. Wow. Really? And I actually think it might be one of the better decisions I've made in 40k in a while. Did your did your stomach sink?

SPEAKER_01 29:54

I oh my god. Maybe it's I get attached to you know to things like that.

SPEAKER_00 30:01

That word, that word right there. Here's the blessing in disguise. Now I've got a greenfield. I don't have things that I'm attached to that I look at and I go, oh, but like these games I remember that I played and they did so well and they operated this way. I have to look at everything with fresh eyes now.

SPEAKER_01 30:22

God, I'm taking deep breaths.

SPEAKER_00 30:25

It forced me to think long and hard because I'm creating everything from scratch. And like, yes, I I blog about a lot of the stuff. I can go on the blog, I can find a bunch of my old lists, and I can manually recreate them. But I found myself, you know, I did that like once, and I'm like, eh, you know what? I think I might be missing out here. I'm gonna go read the force disposition. I'm gonna go look at the maps that each of that that you know, that force disposition could have to play against. I'm gonna go read the missions that it could have to play. This is a chance for me to, you know, you use you latched onto the term culture shock. This is a chance for me to kind of reboot my culture brain so that I'm not going through culture shock and I'm treating it as a fresh green field, I'll try and come in with no preconceptions. And I actually found that that has been very freeing, even though it was insanely frustrating when I made the mistake and locked up the app.

SPEAKER_01 31:30

Man, but uh but the see, I don't know because for me inside of the app, like looking at the like the lists, and I just pulled up my phone while we're sitting here talking about it, and like I've named these lists after moments where I remember like the cool experience. Like I have cousin Josh's 40th birthday bash, I have Eric's birthday fest, um, I have finally got a new Votan army. I have one where I played um blood angels into uh other Josh's Space Wolves that I called puppy wranglers. And like I now remember, oh my god, I would be so upset if I deleted all those.

SPEAKER_00 32:10

Yeah, it it was a bit of a gulp moment, but I'm actually super glad that I did it. And I'll I'll give a tangible example. So I the last game of 10th edition I played was with the Emperor's Children Carnival of Excess. And that was by and far my favorite detachment in that codex to play, and it was one of my favorite lists that I had built. And so I lost that list, and yeah, I could go to the blog and I could get it. But in the process of recreating it, because Carnival is one of the first detachments I want to try, it caused me to completely rethink of how I would combine that with something else and what kind of game I would play. Because, you know, I I historically I've played Carnival with two defilers, a wing demon prince, and then a bunch of chaff. And it was just a I'm gonna come out and kill you, and I'm gonna occupy a bunch of the board and make sure you can never get behind me. So I'm gonna make you run into my big guns and my demon prince that is gonna charge you and do mortal wounds. And, you know, between the points update, defilers are now much more expensive. The demon prints, if I play more than one of them, is much more expensive. And the force dispositions, it gave me a chance to rethink of how I would tackle that. And part of what I stumbled onto is, well, wait a minute. If I'm gonna combine this with something, what what mission do I want to play in addition to how do I want to, you know, what do I want in my list? Kind of what I stumbled upon is well, if I combine it with Elegant Brutes, which is a 1DP detachment that everyone says is terrible because it buffs your Terminators, and Emperor's Children Terminators have been unplayable since the codex launched, I get access to take and hold. And I'm gonna have four to five ten model Demonette bricks running around the table with a lot of OC, with the ability to battleshock you if I charge you. I can still put a one defiler, I can play a bunch of noise marines, and then oh, by the way, if I put a Lord Cacophonus in the Terminator, in one Terminator unit, I can get it access to sustained hits, which carnival allows me to turn that into sustained hits on fives. Hey, there's really something here. So it kind of led me down this rabbit hole of there's a there there that I would have completely missed if I just tried to play that the way I played it in Temp.

SPEAKER_01 35:01

I think so. Interestingly enough, my reaction when I opened up my app was kind of a I had a similar moment. Um, but my moment was more of whoa, all of the lists that I used to play, um, the values changed. And I was like, I was like, oh geez, I didn't really think that they would change that much. I mean, it wasn't wasn't like I had these really adventurous lists or anything like that. Right? So when I went and I looked, and every every list that I play went up in points except for the vote.

SPEAKER_02 35:41

I was like, I got real excited. I was like, yes.

SPEAKER_00 35:52

Insert short joke here about the Votans points.

SPEAKER_01 35:56

Yeah, I I mean I was like, oh okay, all right, that went up a hundred points, that went up eighty points, that one up thirty points. Whoa, that one went down 50 points. Heck yeah. I was started so I started kind of doing something similar, which I was like, oh, okay, well, well, hold on, wait a second. Well, what would I change now that I know that you know this list is gonna play this way with this force disposition? And I started kind of thinking through that, and I'm like, oh, okay, wait, hold on. This completely changes what I want to do here. So I I actually started like deleting things out and moving stuff in, and so it kind of it triggered similar interaction, but I didn't have to delete all of my favorite lists. I mean, geez, I don't know if I can handle that level of anxiety. Not first thing in the morning.

SPEAKER_00 36:44

I'm not saying I wanted to do it, but I'm seeing the silver lining on the cloud now that I've done it, because it had you know, there were some where it was like, okay, I this is what I wanted to do all along, but it I will admit, the I've been very surprised and pleased by how much taking a green field, gotta start from bare bones, has led me down to some some interesting things. The other thing is it's gotten me really excited to try a couple lists that I wasn't sure what I wanted to do about before. I was or I had kind of this, yeah, I played it a bunch of times, like I know what it does. It it's like an old comfortable pair of sweatpants. I'm not excited to to play it, but I will. Well, now that I had a chance to rebuild that list and take it in a different direction, now I'm all excited again. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:40

I don't know. My public service announcement for people is I think there's an opportunity for everybody to get out there and play new lists. I think you're finding them through your silver lining. I'm finding it through the fact that my army has changed values and now it just kind of kind of looks different. I think I think just get out there and play them and try them and try not to get so wrapped up into the way that it looked in 10th um or the way that you've been playing it. It's a it's a new world, it's a new thing. And for me, I you know, to your point, it's not a bad idea to go ahead and delete those lists. No, I am gonna write them down somewhere and and write it down because each one of the lists that I have saved kind of, you know, is a memory playing the game last edition. But um, yeah, I to that to that point, I think I think you're embracing it with the right attitude. I really like the way that you're you're thinking through it. And yeah, it probably sucked in the moment when you deleted all that hard work you had. But your favorite part of this game is also building lists. You love to list hammer. It's literally what we talk about every day. So so I mean, I think there's an aspect of don't don't forget about the fun that can come along with this game, even when we all are embracing our competitive side of things.

SPEAKER_00 39:10

Yeah, 100% agree. And it's I'm not sure I would recommend deleting your entire archive of lists, but there is there is some value to maybe tagging an old list as a 10th edition list and then creating a new one and seeing which one of the two, you know, and just trying to start fresh. I I could see some value in the and you're gonna have some like the Harlequin's list that I made. Spoiler alert, it's the exact same list that I played through all of 10th, but I got to add another detachment into it because the Harlequin Serpent's Brood, which I play, is only 2 DP. So I got to add in another one, and now I can give all my transports and ever and all my other vehicles assault. So it's the same list, but you know, about a third of the list or so gets access to another layer of rules, which to your point earlier about the MFM, it that kind of explains why some of these things went up in points.

SPEAKER_01 40:14

Right.

SPEAKER_00 40:15

I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 40:16

It it's

List Building Confession

SPEAKER_01 40:17

pretty cool. So have you been building lists now that you deleted them all? Have you been doing that? Come on, you know the answer to that question. All right, all right. It was a loaded question. All right, I know you've been doing it, so what the heck have you been doing?

SPEAKER_00 40:31

Um, I mean, how much time do you have and how deep do you want me to go?

SPEAKER_01 40:36

I I mean, I I s okay. Well so does this is this gonna be more than one episode?

SPEAKER_00 40:47

I mean, we can do the whole next like six months of just me talking an hour per episode on one list. I don't know that that's good podcasting. Do you want me to just walk through I I've got about a dozen list no, I'm holy cow, are you serious? You've built a dozen lists? No, I'm not serious. It's more than that. I forgot to scroll.

SPEAKER_01 41:10

Eric, dude. There's the sun's been shining, man. Get outside. Holy colour. How many how many have you built, Eric?

SPEAKER_00 41:24

Probably about a dozen and a half, maybe two dozen. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 41:32

Okay. Um, I don't I don't really know what to do with this right now.

SPEAKER_00 41:36

And there are some factions where I limited myself to one for that faction. So like I only have one blood angels list, I only have one chaos knights list. I only have one custodi's list. Uh I only have one Elgari, but that's because I only play Harlequins. I only have one Orcs list, but then Chaos, Grey Knights, Space Marines, and Necrons. I indulged.

SPEAKER_01 42:00

And here I was proud of myself because I was trying to put together my first 11 Botan list, and you're over here with 24.

SPEAKER_00 42:13

Yeah, my name's Eric, and I have list building problems.

SPEAKER_01 42:18

Uh, okay. Put that one on things. I didn't have them on my bingo card today. And truly, folks, I did not have that on my bingo card. Holy cow. Okay. I don't even know where to start with that, Eric. Is there well? Alright. I'm gonna do this one time only. I'm never gonna do this again.

First Emperor's Children List of 11th

SPEAKER_01 42:38

Eric, why don't you talk to us about Emperor's Children? Because I know you've looked at those. And I know you probably have more than one.

SPEAKER_00 42:45

I do have two. I I'm deliberately not building a coderie of the conceited list right now. It's the three DP detachment. I I know what it would be. I'm I'm deliberately not starting there because that was my second most played list in 10th edition. So I started with Peerless Bladesman and Carnival of XS because I wanted to experiment with combining, those are both two DP detachments. I wanted to experiment with how could I combine them with the different one dp detachments. So I I carnival, I opted for a more shooting-heavy approach. I combined it with the elegant brutes Terminator 1DP detachment. And the shtick of the list, if you will, is a bunch of demon chaff that is gonna sit on objectives, and pretty much every gun in the army has access to sustained with critical hits on fives if they're within range of a demon. So it's gonna do a whole lot of damage and it's got a whole lot of objective control. And I'm gonna play it as like a board control, almost like a pseudo personal. Perfectly sculpted chaos flavored Slanesh Worshiping Guard list.

SPEAKER_01 44:07

Interesting.

SPEAKER_00 44:08

Except faster. Because I've got four units of Demonettes, which are little T3 One Wound, kind of like Cadians. I've got a Big Defiler, which is my version of a Rogel Dorn. I've got a Winged Demon Prince. There's not a great guard equivalent to that, but let's just call it a the melee equivalent of a Dorn. And then I got three squads of Noise Marines and the Terminators that I think with all the buffs I put on them, and if they're in within range of some Demonettes, also turn into pseudo-noise marines, except they have access to Dev Wounds.

unknown 44:44

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 44:45

So that one I am very, very interested in and excited for because it is a very, very different play pattern than how I have played EC historically.

SPEAKER_01 44:56

So I put together a list for Votan, and I kind of feel like you and I channeled our same thought, which was let's try something that's different than how we normally do this. Yep. Are you ready?

SPEAKER_00 45:09

Yeah, I mean, you had me at I Built a List. Hit

Leagues of Votann Surprise List

SPEAKER_00 45:14

me.

SPEAKER_01 45:14

So I'm thinking I want to go with a 2DP, 1DP kind of balance, kind of similar to what you're doing, right? And I want to do um Need Guard. And I really the more I read into it, I really want to try this um Hearthguard Covenant. I I think as a 1 DP, I honestly don't think that's gonna stay 1 DP. I I truly don't, just because of some of the skills that I think you get out of it. I gave some of this away earlier, but I think um, you know, you can essentially teleport deep strike the hearthguard in with a six-inch deep strike. I mean, I don't know, that had me right there. I was like, holy cow, I've never had I've never had that before. You know, I've never really had a chance to do that. So um I think that that's something I want to try, and it's a little bit different. And then I'm gonna go with a forced disposition of Purge the Fo, um, which isn't totally different, but as we discovered in um the All-Star game and some of our other previous games intent, I think I put I can play Purge the Fo pretty well. I think it fits my style. So if I'm trying something new, that's a little more of a comfort zone for me, which I think is something I could take into the game and navigate pretty well, right? Um, so I think that that's that's what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna I'm gonna bring just a regular call. I'm gonna bring Uthar. Here's where it gets spicy. You ready? Yeah. I'm bringing two champions. Oh boy. And the reason I'm bringing two, because they both can't suck.

SPEAKER_00 46:53

That's statistically impossible. Never say those words out loud. It's improbable. It's it's just the inverse of rolling boxcars, Steve.

SPEAKER_01 47:05

So I'm gonna play two champions. I'm also gonna go with um I'm gonna go heavy bikes on this because I I again what we were talking about earlier, is I think I think the way that these terrine layouts are going, and we've talked about this in previous episodes, is that you need to have that mobility. You gotta be able to move. Um, I'm nixing the sagittars, which is rare for me, um, because I love sagittars. I they're like literally one of my favorite models to look at. Um and I'm nixing them. I'm gonna go with a um with a Capricus. I think the the idea there is I want to be able to carry things. I'm gonna have a 10 10 man squad of Jaegers um that are gonna go in the Capricus. So obviously I need to be able to move them. I also need to have uh the Jaegers have you know their their capabilities that they can help me to be able to blank out sides, and especially when terrain is gonna act as the objective, I think that gives me a real advantage of being able to kind of do a little bit of um, you know, can board control right off the bat, or at least understand where the board control is needed, because dun dun dun. I'm gonna bring two land fortresses, which is gonna really help me be able to shape where, you know, all the things we've talked about so far. I've kind of took the whole episode the setup that I hey I built a list and I thought through some of these things, and I wanted that to be a surprise to you, Eric, because I've had been sitting on this all day and didn't tell you, and I've been really excited to talk about it. There you go. So, anyway, the idea is that the two land fortresses give me the chance to be able to kind of do um almost like a reverse board control. Like I dare you to go and take those objectives. I dare you to go over there because I can potentially still hit you. And there's not there's I don't want them to feel like there's anywhere they're gonna be safe, you know? Um, so I'm gonna bring two of those. And then the Thunderdumpers, obviously, they have to make an appearance. I think that they're gonna be really, really good. Um, at least they're gonna be one of I think my marquee uh units. Um, so I'm gonna bring them and then I'm gonna bring obviously the Hearthguard. And I'm hoping the Hearthguard make a comeback a little bit here. Um I'm hoping that uh I can bring a lot of them, and it's gonna be a little bit of Hearthguard spam. Um which I'm I'm kind of excited to see. I'm kind of excited to see, you know, the the original Votan, even though we don't have a ton of them. Like, I don't know. I'm hoping that they can make a comeback here and not not have to use the the uh slapjacks as much as I was using them at the end of 10th and things like that. So that's kind of my list. Um I've thought it out. I think it's gonna be good. I think that's kind of where I want to start. 11.

SPEAKER_00 50:06

There's a and I don't know if this is good. Uh you know more about Votan than I do. There's a potential change to the list you can make if you want to show the champions how it's done and who's boss, which is if you have a call lead the the Ein here squad instead of the champion.

SPEAKER_01 50:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:30

The call gives them access to lethal hits and re-rolls, right? Uh I don't think re-rolls, but you get re-rolls to wound just by being in that one DP detachment as long as you're within nine inches. So if you deep strike down, and then you've got a call attached, and you've got the I don't know the exact weapons, but I know that the Ein here can put out a tremendous amount of fire with their like grenade launchers. You could potentially just create two bombs that drop in, and you're not even reliant on making a charge now. It's just about dropping in and lighting you up with a bunch of lethal hits, and then anything that's not a lethal hit, I'm gonna re-roll a one to wound if you're on an objective, or if I'm within nine inches of you, and oh, by the way, if you're on an objective, I'm ignoring the benefits of cover. Like that so can you created like a pseudo, like a Votan version of Bridgehead Strike, the the guard it's reigning men list that we talked about.

SPEAKER_01 51:36

So I was gonna ask you if you can tell what I'm kind of modeling the list after. Yeah, it's yeah, it's it's like that. It's very much like like like Bridgehead, it's very much like honestly, any of the death bombs that you make in any of your normal space marine kind of way of playing, right? Where you just drop in this this this death bomb that can can you know really do some damage, I think it opens up the playing field. And I don't have to I don't have to worry as much about being on short little legs. Uh, you know, or or in the past, what I would do is use a lot of transports and carriers. Um, and I think this gives me a lot more things on the board that have an attack that is worthwhile and not so swingy. Um, and I don't know, I never would have thought of playing it this way until you know the the opportunity here in 11th.

SPEAKER_00 52:38

I think that's really cool. The other interesting dynamic it sets up for your opponent potentially is you've got this between going heavy on the bikes, and if you've got the two, let's assume you go with the call because you want the champions to stop and watch a little bit and to see how it's done. Well, now you're gonna have two Death Stars that can deep strike in. Potentially, you could have them be two tenmans, it's a lot of points, and you got the bikes that if you keep them close to a board edge, they can uppy downy. They don't have deep strike, but they you know, from turn three on, they can get into their appointment, their opponent's deployment zone. You set up this interesting dilemma of well, if you try and come out to the midfield to get my my Jaegers and my carrier and my my BS units, or even if you go hard with the Hearthguard and you dump them on there, if you come to get me off the objectives, well, now you're gonna open up your backfield and I'm gonna stop draw start dropping Death Stars and Bikes back there.

SPEAKER_01 53:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:47

Like it you've got a pincer maneuver that you can do, and and if you choose to stay in your deployment zone because you're scared to come out because you don't want me dropping behind you, well now I'm just gonna drop those things onto the center objectives and in the midfield, and need card's gonna allow me to get yield points fast enough that I'm probably gonna flip over to fortified takeover. So I'm gonna get plus one to my hit rolls, anyways, because I'll just shoot you from the objectives. And I think I think the thing, like I like this.

SPEAKER_01 54:19

The reason why I am excited about you know the new things with with 11, it's given me the opportunity to look at different ways to stretch the army in ways that I felt like there was a disadvantage in the past. Like I I mean, I've talked about it here multiple times. I would always feel like I would get to turn two, maybe turn three, and then I've pretty much moved wherever I'm gonna move with the Votan, aside from a couple units, right? That potentially, if they can last long enough and live long enough, they might be able to still do some things. Now, now I can do it, right? And I've never thought about building an army that could help me do that, and so I wanted to put a little bit of effort into to doing that and and you know thinking through it, and and I think that it's gonna be a really neat thing, and I'm excited to try it.

SPEAKER_00 55:13

I mean, the other thing I think is really funny, and I'm taking some liberties with how you built the list here a little bit, but if you if you do double Hecaton, double Einhir, 10 man Death Star with a call, depending on the size of the Thunder Dumpers and the Bike Squads, you've backed into a where's the beef list, which is just proving the stereotype that we talked about in a prior episode. That's pretty funny.

SPEAKER_01 55:44

I I I have seen some other folks that are talking about this list. I mean, I don't I I you dirty meta chaser. I I'm it's not so much chasing it. Well, we don't even know if it's a meta yet. It's a little early to be calling anything meta. Um, but I like the idea behind it. I like the growth potential that using two force disposition or the force disposition with two different um, you know, uh detachments, I think it's really cool. And I think it's a way that I've never played them before, so I am really excited to see it.

SPEAKER_00 56:27

It's cool. That that's it that's an exciting and interesting list. And the other thing I think is cool, I looked it up briefly while you were talking. If Purge the Foe doesn't work, and you don't go full where's the beef, and you've got you know your your Jaeger or your Jaeger squad that you split up because five of them go in the carrier, and you've got a couple squads of the hearthguard running around. Well, you can just pivot to priority assets, which is a combination of I'm gonna come kill you with I'm gonna do actions, and it creates the same dilemma for the opponent.

SPEAKER_01 57:03

Yeah, I think there's two ways to definitely play this, and and I think that's why I went with Purge the Foe first, was just it's just more comfortable for me right now while I'm still learning the mechanics of the list. But I I absolutely agree with you that that you could switch to priority, and and I think the list is still viable. Dang man, that's awesome. Yeah, I think it's cool. So there's your surprise for the day. Your uh friendly neighborhood peacock. Uh he he did some list research and a little list hammering.

SPEAKER_00 57:38

Happy Father's Day to me. You built a list and then came prepared to talk about it. I will take it.

SPEAKER_01 57:43

It took me a little while to get us there to get us because I had to set some of the other things up that I was thinking through as to why we're why I think this is so good. But yeah.

SPEAKER_00 57:54

Yeah. So is this why you've been radio silent all day long? Because you're just over there giggling, like, I'm so excited that I don't want to spell the beans that I have a list.

SPEAKER_01 58:03

So no joke. I signed off from work and I um I walked away from the desk and I went upstairs and we were making uh dinner, my wife and I, and and she's like, Why are you what are you doing over there? And I'm scribbling things down on paper and like looking at it and going, uh, I don't know. And um then I'm going back to the app and checking my points values and all these things. She's like, You're really engaged in whatever that is over there. I'm like, Yeah, I gotta prepare for tonight. So that's why I was radio silent after work today.

SPEAKER_00 58:43

That's funny, man.

SPEAKER_01 58:45

Yeah, so uh like I said, I I am actually excited about this. I I really would recommend to folks out there. I I hope you can tap into the excitement that that we're trying to tap into, which is it's all new. We don't know. The unknown is so exciting, and you know, there's there's ways to look at this, don't look at it just as a tenth thing, and in tenth, maybe evaluate some of the things that your list was struggling with and see if there's different combinations that you can put together to find ways to fix that. And that's what I started doing, and where I think this can go.

SPEAKER_00 59:28

Yeah, and I I would encourage folks, and I'm trying to take this out this advice myself as well of there's gonna be a lot of pressure in the next couple of weeks and months of like let's find the correct combination. And I'm seeing this in the space marine uh communities already, where it's like, well, the obvious combination is either to stick with a 3DP detachment or to just staple librarius onto whatever your favorite 2DP detachment is. It's okay. That's gonna get really boring really fast if that's all that people do. Or the other one I've seen a lot in the community online is the well, everyone should just go play for uh purge the foe because that's the strongest force force disposition. It's okay, but that's gonna get super boring.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:23

I don't know that I would agree that it's the strongest. I think it was the it would be the strongest if you're looking at it from a tenth perspective.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:33

I don't know because I need to see these things in like I need to get some first hand experience playing the game before I render judgment. I there's enough people who judgment I trust from a content creator perspective that are saying for purge the foe is slightly stronger. But I I also think there's an element of purge the foe and take and hold are just gonna be the most comfortable because that that's gonna be the most like vanilla war hammer that we're all used to from 10th edition.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:08

I think when I'm trying to eliminate variables of something new, I think, yeah, for sure, that's the only reason why I would say that I I'm I'm looking forward to playing with. I I don't know. I personally I don't see it as being the the best one. Um I just think it's maybe the one that everybody's most comfortable with, and maybe there's just a words matter moment there where it's like maybe we should stop saying that this is the best one and the most powerful one, and just say that this is the one that people know how to play right now, and that they've created metas around already.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:49

This is the most comfortable, this comes with the least amount of culture shock.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:54

Yeah, exactly. It's that culture shock, it's shocking.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:02

I'm still amazed that you brought a list, and you like I'm not putting you down. It was a really, really well thought out list, and I think and you pulled a 1dp detachment from Votan that like I haven't gone super deep on Votan, but I was helping my son today who plays the Votan with installing the new app and whatnot, and he and I passed right over that one.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:26

So it's I think it's really cool. Man, I'm telling you, I'm gonna be real excited to play that one. So it it's awesome, it's gonna be fun.

Conclusion

SPEAKER_00 1:02:36

So when we play it, what do you want to play it against?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:39

I honestly don't care because I'll be honest, the first couple of games that we play, I'm not even gonna really that much care about what I'm opponenting into. It's gonna be more about just trying to get a feel for the mechanics and understand the game. Um, because it's new, it's like learning a new board game. You're you're learning new rules, you're learning all the things, you're gonna make mistakes, you're gonna screw stuff up, it's gonna happen. So um, I I don't think we're gonna get like super good matchups um for a little while until we get comfortable comfortable and confident. So to be honest, I would just pick something that you're interested to learn and excited about, and we'll play that together, and then we'll see what feels right, what didn't feel right, and maybe give it a couple goes of the same thing to make it determine whether or not it's the new edition that feels that way, or just maybe we don't know the rules all the way yet, or whatever it is. Um, you know, or these units don't gel together, you know. Like we could feel that from the all-star game. There was an aspect where you know the units just didn't gel together, they just didn't work right on my side, but on your side, they worked great, smashingly, right? Um, I think that that's the approach that I I really want to take into the first couple games that I play in 11th, is just just feel it out and and embrace that it's it's kind of cool that we're going into a new generation of of Warhammer.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:10

There's a really good point you made in there of and I think we backed into this a little bit with the all-star game concept. We essentially, and granted, we were we took it to the extreme, but we essentially were doing the equivalent of a 2DP and a one dp mash together.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:32

Yeah, and we had no idea, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:04:34

And and to your point, I wouldn't be surprised as a if a part of the culture shock is also things that look good on list hammer, but then you start playing them and the detachments don't feel great when they're mashed together. They just it's you know, it should work, but it doesn't feel right. And that's another level of this, like you said, of the that's a part of the process. So it and that's gonna require some of that just feeling it out. So I I I don't know. I think that's a a good put on your part because that I hadn't thought about that one, but that is a real thing of there's probably gonna have to be some experimenting of uh hey, at what point do I just stop trying to mash these two together and move on to something else?

SPEAKER_01 1:05:27

I can't wait. I think that this is gonna be a lot of fun. Discovery is my favorite part. I feel like um I feel like I'm learning the game again and it's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:39

Yeah, I I am as well. I am in full analysis paralysis mode of the first thing I want to try playing, though, because I've got 24 lists I'm very excited about.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:49

I totally was expecting like five or six.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:53

No even if you'd have said a dozen, my reaction would have been like, what?

unknown 1:05:58

24

SPEAKER_00 1:06:01

Yeah, I've got a lot. And some of them are close to what I was playing. Like CSM, there's a bunch of three DP detachments. The lists are pretty close to what I was playing last time, and it's just a baseline that I I put a note, I'm gonna tweak it later. But yeah. I've got three gray night lists ready to go four gray night lists ready to go, four or five space marine ones, three or four necrons. I've got a problem.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:37

Alright, just to put this in perspective. I spent all day and all night thinking through and working on one time.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:54

Like, oh I got twenty four. I'm glad you can't see my face because I was just like, what the damn it?

SPEAKER_03 1:07:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:08

Yeah. Oh man.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:11

Well, folks, hopefully you're out there making 24 of your own list.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:17

No, I would not wish that on anyone, and I would not wish having to delete your list to get the app to work on anyone. But hopefully you are enjoying some amount of list building between where Steve is and where I am.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:31

Oh man, I'm gonna giggle about this all night. That's pretty funny. So well, alright. Well, next time, I mean, we can talk more about some of your lists and where you're going and and some of your thoughts about the you know the new things that the different ways that we're building as combos. I I think I think talking through like some of that, you know, gelling of the lists, I think is a is an interesting concept too. So we can we can maybe deep dive somewhere into that. But I think there's gonna be a lot of things for us to talk about in the next coming weeks.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:08

I think so too, and I'm hoping I have plans this weekend that don't involve picking up my Armageddon box until late on Sunday. But I am hoping at some point next week I can get in my first game of 11th. And who knows? Hopefully, I can sneak it in before we podcast next so I can come with a here are my first thoughts.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:31

Yeah, yeah, let's let's plan on that. I I like it. I think if your Armageddon box is in, that means mine's in. So that also means that maybe we get some new fun with paints time too.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:46

Yeah, I'm pretty much convinced I'm gonna have my kids paint my Armageddon box, and I think they're signed up for it too, but you can have fun with paint.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:55

Well, maybe I'll just ask them about painting then.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:59

Yeah, you guys can sit around and you can all paint together.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:03

You'd love that.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:05

I absolutely would. It's a free babysitter, and I don't have to paint my models.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:13

Oh man. All right, well, I I yeah, I look forward to it, man. Let's get started. I can't wait. Let's let's you know, let's get to playing. And and I hope everybody else out there gets a chance to to do some uh play testing with 11th. Let us know what you think. Let us know what you guys are working on. Let us know what uh what you know what detachments and what force dispositions you're going with. We'd love to see the combinations and things like that. So um, you know, hit us up. We're we're definitely very, very excited about what's coming. Especially for the Emperor's children. Oh my god. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:52

Good night, everyone.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:55

Take care, everyone.