Lemonade Leaders

From Poverty and Loss to Changing Schools and Teaching Self-Belief

• Riannon Palmer • Season 1 • Episode 7

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Claire Hill’s childhood was shaped by poverty, loss and responsibility beyond her years. After losing her dad at just eight years old, she helped care for her siblings while her mum faced mental health challenges. Despite the odds, she found a love of learning, a flair for business, and the resilience to keep moving forward.

In this episode of Lemonade Leaders, Claire shares her journey from growing up with secondhand uniforms and stigma to becoming a teacher who spearheaded her school’s pioneering free meals programme, ensuring every child started the day with breakfast. She opens up about the battles with imposter syndrome that followed her into adulthood, the leap she took in leaving teaching to build her creative business, and the powerful “worry to warrior” mindset that now shapes her work as a self-belief coach.

We also talk about the importance of early intervention, the systemic changes needed for equality of opportunity, and why self-belief is the true foundation for success. Claire’s story is one of grit, transformation and hope - showing how even the hardest starts in life can lead to creating lasting change.

Find more about Claire here:

https://www.clairehill.uk/

https://www.instagram.com/iamclairehill

https://uk.linkedin.com/in/iamclairehill

https://www.tiktok.com/@iamclairehill

Find us on TikTok and Instagram @lemonadeleaders

Riannon:

Welcome to Lemonade Leaders, the podcast about conversations that do good and feel good. I'm your host, Rhiannon Palmer, founder of Lemon, a feelgood PR agency for brands that care. Each episode, I'll be chatting to brilliant people who've turned life's lemons into something meaningful. Today I'm joined by Claire Hill, a self-belief and business coach, founder of the Vivid Business Club, and host of the No Rest for the Vivid Business Podcast. Close Journey started in extreme poverty in the uk, navigating the loss of her father at just eight years old, while helping care for her siblings as her mum faced mental health challenges. Despite battling imposter syndrome through two careers and a business, she went on to earn a master's degree and turn her dissertation into the foundation for the transformative framework she teaches. Today we'll be talking about how to hold your nerve when life rose Curve falls, the lessons clear learned along the way, and the power of trusting the process even when it feels impossible. Hi, Claire. Thank you so much for joining us today. Hello, Riannon. I'm very happy to be here. It's so exciting to have you. I would love if you could take us back to what it was like growing up and that entrepreneurial passion and journey. I think I was born to be an entrepreneur, but just put into the wrong circumstances for it to blossom naturally. However, everything happens exactly as it should. So I'm very grateful for everything that's got me here. But I had this little business where I would go round to my neighbor's houses. And tidy up their bedrooms. Oh, I that paid. Things that were around because I didn't really have many nice things. So I'd be like, you see that pencil case over there? I will tidy your bedroom for that pencil case or hold little sales. And then I had a little business when I was 14 making scrunches and bags and PE kit bags and stuff. and then I had another business sitting in eBay, and then I had another business that was more successful and then two more. And now I'm here. You, you went round the long way. Yeah, I think the entrepreneurial spirit is always thinking outside of the box and, and really thinking, what if I could make some money out of that? What I have learned the hard way is that you can do all of business without confidence, but you can't do it without self-belief. So I think knowing that and understanding how important that is to any strategy going as is the foundation of what I teach. Yeah, I completely agree. I think that you see lots of businesses created by a certain type of person. Usually it's a white middle class man or upper class person because they have naturally gone to schools that teach them to be confident from day, basically. So it is less likely sometimes that there are different types of entrepreneurs. I know that you didn't have the most glamorous start in life, and it's amazing to show people that have also come from that background. 'cause that's what we need to do. We are talking it's GCSE results day to day. So it's, it's crazy to see so many different people that have had different situations and life. Actually. If we could just level out the playing field and give everyone that opportunity and that confidence from the start of their lives, then we would have a much more diverse environment generally, but also lots of different entrepreneurs. I think that it comes from that society. You are seen as less than when you have less than, and that shame I carried. I I probably still carry it even though I've done so much work on it because not only I was growing up with no money, I was from a single parent family that had the issues as well, and that I, I think when you are younger, you just straight away 'cause of the way that the world works. You are below. And that hierarchy of socioeconomic status is really, can be really, really destructive because people will see where you've started. And this is, I'm generalizing and I know that there are other people out there that don't think this, but having that attitude of you are not gonna ever amount to anything. And I think if I am judged, if I've ever been judged on where I've come from and the circumstances, like the products that I have created out of that is definitely not congruent to what I was expected to achieve. And I think the, the saving grace for me is that I loved learning and I loved. Reading, and I've said this before, but reading Matilda by role do, and I think I was seven when I read that for the first time and read it five times over and I was, I was think trying to remember whether my dad had died at that point or not. So I might have been eight. But just having this opportunity that you could explore the world through a book and that somebody who was really on back foot with her family status, but also the fact that. Her intelligence was above and beyond anyone could comprehend. She couldn't fit in anywhere really at that point, but she still was winning because somebody championed her. And that was the same. I, I, I often compare that story because it was that thing where I was, I was quite clever, really clever. But having that opportunity of, well, I love learning. How can I learn? And I remember being in this situation where, this was year six specifically. You get homework. And so I would make sure I did my whole week's homework on a Monday because the rest of the week I was having to do the, the jobs and look after my brothers. And I thought, right, if I just do it for one day, it'll work. But the effect on my health, it was the teachers that spoke to my mum and said, she can't do this. It's not, she's so tired. This is Monday. Like I was really poorly be as a result of it. But my, my focus was that education can save everything. It can take me to new places, having that, and I think that's the entrepreneur in me as well going, you, you, you're giving me like a centimeter of an opportunity. I'm gonna run a mile with that. I. Yeah. And what was school like for you? You mentioned that you were really intelligent, but did it kind of translate into the educational status? Because sometimes what the society at the minute says is smart is not what kind of people are smart. It is just 'cause they translated to those exam results. Unfortunately. Yeah. No, I, I was, I am, I'm an academically intelligent, My, I think it was, it was difficult. I think where I live in Kent, we have the tests, so we have grammar schools and fortunately for kids like me, because you have an opportunity to have, but then again, it's all changed now because a lot of people have tutors. And so it changed, like changed the playing field a little. But for me, I got through and. Was, didn't really do anything extra to get through, was then put in a grammar school. But then I was the only child on free school meals in the whole year. And so then I felt really on the back foot. Like we didn't have a car. my second, my uniform was secondhand and so. What usually comes with intelligence in schools like that? You've got a lot of affluence. So every child had all of these, like a simple thing is my mom didn't have the time or the ability to wash our uniform all the time, so we would have to basically wear our school uniform the whole week. And that was always the way we'd just get out of it as soon as we got in from school and then we'd put it on. Now that for me is something what my arms, so. Funny about my son's school uniform because of that. Because I knew that I was basically, especially with pub, I was basically stinking by the end of the week. That has nothing for your confident. So I was bullied all through primary school, all through secondary school. I say bullied, but I suppose I was just consistently picked on. And then I remember this one time in year 11, I'd just, I just snapped and had enough, and I think it was at that point where I was like. I wanna be more than this. I need to be more than this. There was those, I think everybody have tho has those crossroads and I had multiple crossroads because of the doubt and the imposter syndrome and my mental health as a result of all the trauma that I had experienced. There was these crossroads of like, it's really easy actually to go down the wrong path. Very easy, especially, from where I was living as well. It was in a deprived area or I could just work a tiny little bit harder and then I could go the other way. And it wasn't until it was a, there was a big crossroads at that point when I was in year 11 and I met my first boyfriend. This is just such a lovely story because, and I think he gets annoyed about it 'cause I ended up dumping him by his mum. his mum is still really good friend of mine and I remember meeting her for the first time. She ran her own businesses came from the same area as me. Hadn't experienced as much as me, but was working with adults with learning disabilities and had a real passion for promoting independence in people that, that you would've thought, ah, they can't do that. And I was so inspired by her and I remember her saying, God, you are ma, you are amazing, aren't you? Are magic. And I, and, and I remember meeting him and thinking. He's never gonna like fancy, you're 60. Like he's not even fancy me. He was rich at the time. Like he had his own flat and they had more than one car and a big drive and she would take me out to, and I didn't know how to moisturize or anything like that. My mom just not on her radar for obvious reasons. And then she'd be like, oh no, you can, this is what moisturizer you're supposed to put it on every day and like you're supposed to wash your face. What? You don't just put er leather soap on your face. So it was this, this whole awakening of somebody seeing me and seeing my potential that really saved me. I was nearly kicked outta six form because of what I was getting up to. And it was just her going, come on. So I was like, right, I'm gonna follow in her footsteps. And so I just had this idea of running my own homes for adults with learned disabilities, but my ex-boyfriend did not want me to be in the family business. That never went, that, never, never really, sometimes, sometimes people come into your life for, to teach you a lesson or to give you something rather than fair for the long term. Yeah, I mean, I'm on really good terms with him now and like I, like I say, she came to my wedding so like it's all fun, but I think it's just really important to have somebody that's a champion and the work that I do. Sometimes people have never had a champion. Like that to just go, do you know? Do you know how magic you are? Because I see it and I love that ability of mine. It's like my superpower of just seeing your potential and dreaming for you, and then you catch up and then you are like, you are right. I'm like, yeah, I know it's okay. And then, support in that. and then what went on from there? 'cause obviously now you are a coach doing amazing things. Yes. But I'm sure there is a few different bumps in the road and a journey to get to where you are now. Yeah. My degree was all about supporting and managing health services and, and health and social care support services. And then when I came out, it took me a while to get a job. So I went back to just basic, minimum wage support and doing personal care and stuff. And then I got my job as a, it was called a community support officer. It was just working with homeless families and homeless individuals that were facing all sorts of issues, so related to safeguarding and housing and health. And it was my job to come in and sign posts, but also organize their, help 'em and organize their life. And along that way, they were, they were big worriers for obvious reasons. And it was, it was, I saw it as my job to allow them to see that they weren't stuck in their circumstances. I was 22 when I got that job. I think even at that point I was like, look, this is my life. This is what's happened to me. This is where I grew up. And look, I've been to university, the statistics of children that are free school meals that go to university, there's not that many. But then even free school meal people that go on to do a master's degree, it's just, just doesn't really happen. So I felt that if, if I'm telling my story at that point, like ho, it might help. Like really supporting the parents with round education and getting the kids to school. So I did that for nearly 10 years altogether. Starting with Learn Adults with Learn disabil disabilities. When I was 17, and I left that when I was 27, so I'd become manager and running a team. But we faced redundancies because, our cut funding was severely cut. So this was in 2012, I'd been watching Educating Essex. For me, I, I loved the work I did, but the trauma that people face, getting to that person early on is really important. You can make a change sometimes, at at 30, 40, but it's so difficult, especially with individuals that are rough sleeping, the amount of trauma that they go through, because whatever trauma they've gone through, it's like ridiculous statistics about how many people have gone through trauma in all and then their rough sleeping. But then being a rough sleeper is a trauma so straight away, everything to to do with trauma informed support needs to be in play. I was like, oh, what if I got in there a bit earlier? So I went into education and because of my previous management experience, I quickly got promoted and went into the leadership team within five years, and that was all of my training. Training to be a teacher. I really loved maths and even though I was teaching health and social care, I was like, is there a chance I could teach some maths, please? And then I was teaching maths. And again, heading up all of this around attendance because attendance is usually the first sign that a child is, is struggling or a family is struggling, liaising with the families and then working on safeguarding around those children. And I'm set off on this project of finding out. How many of those children didn't have breakfast? And I don't really remember ever eating breakfast as a child and when you are struggling to get up and there was a lot of us, and what my mom went through was horrendous. So I have empathy there for it, but. I was thinking if they're these behavior issues and they're not learning it's gonna impact their life, then, then they can't break the cycle. They're going to still be what they call a neat child or a neat individual where they don't go onto any other educational employment. Like, maybe, maybe if we just give them breakfast. And we were one of the first schools I, I know one of the first schools in Kent to give the children free breakfast. This was funded by the school as well. There's all the, studies that say if people, especially children and young people have breakfast in the morning, their concentration and their ability to learn is so much more improved. And it's such a basic human right. So if you can give students that, then you're gonna set them on the right path of their day. That role that I did is actually, so in line with the, the essence of this podcast because I really did turn a lemon into a lemonade because I remember being given this role, I wanted, they, they saw that I was ready for, for more responsibility. So this is just before I became one of the leadership team and they said, oh, we are gonna give you healthy school's role. And there was, this was a government in initiative where you got a status as a school of how healthy your school was. And I, I say it's like on friends. I mean, I dunno if you, did you ever watch friends? Yeah. I mean, you probably did the episode where they're planning a birthday party for Rachel, and so Phoebe gets ice and cups and Monica does all the food and stuff and then Phoebe just goes, okay, ice and cups, and then goes mad with different cups of everything like ice, everything. Just goes to town on it and I was like, this is my ice and cups opportunity. Then from there, gathered all this evidence when I went into my leadership role and one of the things was the breakfast, and I just went full on. I'm researching it, I'm gonna present the ideas why it's important, but this is before now children are getting free lunches up to the end of year two, so I think that was 2014 or 2015 when we did that. So I think recognizing if you are making sure that your child has got. The right nutrition, then you don't have much more to worry about. And I think that there could be a, there can be judgment of how, oh my God, how can you just give your kids crap to eat? Or you go and see how much food is like fresh food that you have to make sure gets eaten. Most of it's gotta be in the freezer, or how much time you actually have to cook a meal. Like from my mom's point of view, when she had four children on her own, you have to just make sure that they're gonna bed. Something in their bellies. So it is our job if we've got enough bandwidth to support these children and out there. So that's what like some of the work that I really wanna do is going into schools and like supporting young carers. 'cause you are, you grow up like that, you don't have time to do fun things. The other day I was reading and I didn't have to do anything. My son was at my sister's. My husband had gone to work and I thought I could work because obviously I run my own business. And I thought, no, I am supposed to be off today. I'm gonna read. And I sat for three hours in the morning. Love, love that. And there was, there was stuff up and I. No. And then I felt a bit guilty and I thought, think of all the years in your childhood, Claire, where you never had the opportunity to do stuff like that. I'm like making up for it now. And I think we're also so harsh on ourselves. I think even probably more when you do, you are a founder of a company 'cause you think that I need to be continuously hustling to con. but actually we all need to be a bit nicer to ourselves and to everyone else. I think when you were talking, it really was reminding me of, I think everyone has such a perceived judgment if someone's being naughty at school, that they think, oh, they're just a naughty kid. But actually there's always something going on, whether it's there's home issues or they haven't got as much support or neurodiversity or different things. So obviously teachers are really under-resourced, but if everyone could take a little bit more time, we'd be able to help these people and probably save. The government loads of money in the long run, if we can get in early and have that intervention rather than gonna be more cost to the government in the long run. Oh yeah. Because support when, when our funding was cut. And mind you, these are problems that have been going on. We, we don't wanna get too political, but these problems have been going on for a very long time. We. Yes. Like for every pound they, they spent on support, they were saving the NHS one pound 75, but then they took that away. So how much more money was it then put onto crazy. The NHS, it's crazy and exactly the same for education because all of the Sure Start centers went and that was that amount of funding where they got early intervention in. For those families that really needed it gone. So who picks that up? Reception in school when they first start, unless they're going to a nursery, but usually if you've got no money, you can't afford to go take, put 'em in nursery. So they're in just a little play school or something like that. They've got the free hours, but then all of that goes then onto the schools and they're already stretched. So all of those emotional and social situations, it's hard. If you are a family and it's not your fault that you are in this situation, what do you do? And the thing is, is like with my mom, we were on benefits. How can you go to work when you have got four children on your own and there's no family around that can help and no brothers or sisters or friends or how, how can you work? Like it just, I mean, now you probably go online business or you know. Whatever. It's easier said than done. I think people can be so quick to judge, but like you said, if we get in with people earlier, then there's gonna be lots of prevention of these things. And also maybe you would just never think to do that. 'cause that is a bit of a privileged position to think I'm gonna start a business or be able to work online. Absolutely. So it's always easy when you are sitting there judging. I. but actually you need to have more representation like you were talking about before, people like you going into schools and speaking to people to show that anyone can be doing anything. I'm a huge believer in early intervention, can role models and support in schools, but yeah, unfortunately there aren't that many diverse role models, especially when we're talking about people running different businesses. Yeah, absolutely. And what was the spark? Obviously you're doing this great work in school and helping kids, but what was the spark that made you think I wanna go and start my own company and be able to coach people and, and reach, a more kind of diverse audience? Well, I, I, I fell into it because I, I had, my little boy and I was on maternity leave and it was like, oh my God, I can see my house and, and it's daylight. This is really weird. 'cause I'd been working so much and I've always been creative. Like I said, I, I'd had my little sewn business when I was in, and then I had Violet in May, which I ran from 2012, no, 20, 2009 to 2013 ish. I'm very creative and I love it, and I'd made loads for my wedding the year before, so I was like, I wonder if I just do something with this wire. And I just started making wire rot and was really good at it. But what really helped me is because I'd had Violet in May, which had been very much pro, it was very product based, but also sail in return marched up and down the high streets. I used to run my own Tupperware parties with them and do fairs and stuff. It was all before Instagram. I knew. What not to do with vivid wire. So very quickly, and this was while I was on maternity leave, I created this business that was, I mean, by the time it wasn't even a year old, it was just a year, and I was back at full-time work and doing my master's degree and I had a baby. I was already turning over two to 3000 pounds and thought. This is interesting because I'm doing this, I'm getting up very early to make these orders, and then there was a period of time where I was like, well, how can I do this? So it's not just all of my time anyway, I left education because, and that sort of accidentally, I, I had this dream of running my own business, but I was a breadwinner at the time. I needed to make sure I, I made enough money to, to do everything and, I went for a job and as another teaching job, and it was gonna be worse than where I was. Not that I really hated where I was, but it was far further away. I had so much responsibility. I wanted to finish my master's degree and the school said I could have three hours a year to work. My God, God, I thought you were gonna say a week or something. No, I know. That's when I said, was that a week? No, that's a year. My God. So my profession, what's the point of saying, Eddie, you can have any hours if you have free. It was the thing as well, it was self-funded and if I'd stayed and I wanted, I self-funded it so that I didn't have to be tied into a contract. 'cause the schools make you sign a contract, so you can't leave within two years of completing the degree, the master's degree. And that's by them paying half of it. So, and they just wanted it to be about leadership and basically teaching and learning. And I was like, yeah, I wanted. Explore other things, and I remember finding this master's degree and it was online based learning of the leadership of inclusion, and I could explore social and emotional and mental health issues as well as the trauma. Im impact of support and education and how you can create these trauma informed environments and all of this like just. And managing change as well, which was from, of my, my other degree. And I was like, oh my God, I wanna do this so bad. So I just went and paid for it. But the, the job I was offered, they said, well, part of your role will be you doing the active research on site, and then we will use what. You create from the trauma informed perspective to improve our school. And I was like, this is a dream. This is perfect. This is exactly what I do. Well, I'm researching as I'm working. Perfect. And then they gave me my timetable, and this was well after I'd given my notice in. When you are a teacher in a secondary school, you have a percentage of a, of a timetable of how many lessons that you are teaching. And I was on, I think 40% as an assistant head. So I still had lessons, but enough time to actually get your job done because you, you've gotta lead stuff, And they get put me on an 85% timetable Oh my God. And expect you to do the research. Do that. They were like, well, you've gotta do that in your own time. And I was like, but what had happened is that they had brought in another school as part of the academy and it was a way to save money. So they basically were just gonna keep me as a maths teacher and the, the whole me coming in to do the behavior, the trauma and the master's degree, that was like a ploy to get me in 'cause they needed me to do a maths to be a math teacher. And the times, the mant of class, it was just, I was like, I can't do that. I know that I'm going into a worse situation. And then my husband said, well, you have got a job. You've got vivid wire. And I was like, are you being serious? Because this is like my dream. Are you being actually serious? He was like, yeah, yeah. I mean, if it doesn't work, you're a maths teacher. At the end of the day, I can go back and do maths or I could go into support again. I'd got to the point in my life where I'd had two really successful careers. within those 20 years that I was working. So probably I would've been, all right, let's see what happens. Yeah. And I, I managed to turn vivid wire into really successful. It was really good. People were going, how did you do this? But I was so aware of my mindset, so everything that I had been keeping quiet, all of my own trauma, all of my doubts, all of my imposter syndrome. Just came at me like a frigging massive tsunami because I couldn't be a workaholic anymore. I wasn't there. I couldn't, people please 24 7. I didn't have busted in people around me all the time. I was on my own and I had to have the motivation to grow the business, and the doubt just swallowed me up. It, it really was suffocating and very paralyzing. and I was like, I cannot do this. I've got, and I was like, right master's degree as well, still finishing that, doing this. And part of the, the mindset work, I just tried to feed myself to try like my, feed my brain to try and get into a good situation. But as I was doing that, I was relaying that on Instagram, vivid wire in its, I suppose the top part was like 18,000 followers. So. I was on stories telling people about what I was doing, and people would say, well, how are you doing it? And with all of this, all our businesses, other businesses were following me and seeing that I'd also generated all these other D for different income streams, and I was growing a really profitable business and it was handmade, but I had energy. How did you know? How do you do that? So I started talking about it more and more, and then I thought, what if? And I remember seeing somebody asking about being a mentor or a coach. And I thought, you know what, I'm just gonna put it out there, because I hadn't spent 20 years, and part of my work as an assistant head is, was training teachers up. So I had a department that I used to look after as well as the students, as well as I, when I was a manager looking after the teams. All of that was coaching. I've literally been coaching since I was 17. So how I support people is in such a, a holistic way that it doesn't just make you loads of money, but it makes you have a better life. But it all came from that master's degree because I tested it out on teachers going, what if you spent the first part of your day protecting your energy? How much more bandwidth and capacity would you have to support the most trauma effective students in your classroom? Turns out. Loads more. So if you apply that same element to business, how much more motivation drive energy, how you show up for your business, how much more consistent if you protect your energy in that. Really specific like I and the way the term warrior energy comes from, which is what I use and I call like everyone in my membership, the very business club is all, they're all warriors. When you are worrying. It came from the fact that I was really worrying and I just applied a bit of science and thought, but energy doesn't go anywhere. It just is transferred. So what if I put a bit of effort into transferring all of that warrior energy into warrior energy? So every little doubt would come up and I'd be like, right, that's me. My worry. How can I turn that into a warrior statement? What's that worry? Right? I'm gonna flip that. And I just kept practicing it. And then with this. Practice protecting my energy. I was like, okay, now I can see my vision. Now I know what I'm doing. Now I can create a plan that I can stick to. Oh, and then the next part of the framework is money making attitude. Of course, I can feel I can make money because I feel unstoppable. It all works because it comes from such a, a human way to live. Yeah. And I think sometimes when you're a business owner, you think you have to be different. And it isn't. You just have to be your most vivid self. You go back to who you really are and who you were meant to be, just like I did because I was given all of these barriers and all the shame that carried with it. And it was like, what if I just accept that I'm a warrior for going through all of that instead of being a victim? And as soon as that, I got that reframe, I was like, boom. Like you said, it's all about reframing your mind. I think it's easier said than done, obviously, but, I'm, one of the things that I'm really passionate about is I think that they should have psychology for, for students at school. Because when you learn about that type of thing, we learn about CBT therapy, the cognitive behavioral therapy, and psychology as well. And that's all about turning those irrational thoughts into rational thoughts. And it's something I do daily. Yeah. I, if I'm, worrying something comes up and you think, is that gonna matter in a month? And if we were to teach kids that, then we'd have this tool to go out. And do it in our lives, have better adults as well. But while we don't have that, it's great that we've got people like you that can be going and helping people at any age reframe how they think about things. Yeah. Yeah. That's my, that's my mission, definitely. Amazing. And if you were going back to, uh. A little girl in school who had had a really difficult upbringing and was still doing all her business ideas and being entrepreneurial, what advice would you give to her? I would tell her to a hundred percent. Always follow your instincts and know, because that's, that's what unstoppable self-belief is. And I think when I was younger, I listened to my brain more than my heart and. Didn't I? I was too scared to trust because I felt like, yeah, but look, everyone's telling me basically I'm some little skanky kid. I want more and I wanna do more. And I, I wish I'd listened more in to my heart about that, but obviously everything happens exactly as it should. And if I had done, I wouldn't have learned everything that I have today exactly. To be able to go, do you know what unstoppable self-belief is? Well, this is what it is and this is how you can get it. Unstoppable self-belief is just another way of ho holding that paradox of, oh yeah, you can doubt yourself and still believe, but you choose to li lean into the belief more than you do the doubt. But so many times I've beaten myself up so much, like when people talk to me about their doubt and how they're feeling, I'm like, I know if I can do it, you can too. Like a hundred percent. I've been so, so horrible, so self-critical and now I can spin it and within 20 minutes I'm fine. When you've been through trauma with anybody, there are triggers and you will be triggered, and your nervous system is dysregulated and you need to get back to neutral. Otherwise, you, there's no point in going elsewhere. You can't do anything else. It's not just about going, no, but you need to do this and do this and do this. It's stop and you feel overwhelmed. You stop. You do not do more. You need to be more like, be a, be in more, listen to your body and regardless of what your brain's saying is, oh, that's lazy. No, you are regulating the bit that's driving the force. So settle down and listen to your body. I'm literally the best advert of what I teach. I'm doing everything that I, I teach because I know it works and it's tough. Where? Choose your pain. Yes. I'd rather choose the pain of the hard work than I would where I was because that was horrendous. You know anyone that's been in the depths of that kind of mental health challenge and as a result of whatever, it's horrible. Really, really horrible. Yeah, and like you said though, without those lemon moments that are horrible and while we're in them, they're no fun at all. We wouldn't be the people we are today. So even though at the time they're horrible, I think all of these lemon moments that I'm talking with people about at the minute make us the person that we are today, and then we can pass on those lessons to other people. So hopefully they won't have the same mistakes as us, but it builds us to be the people who we are. Yeah, it's, it's built me to be the person and the woman that I am proud to be, and I'm very proud to be this woman. So yeah, I couldn't, it wouldn't change anything. Yeah, you definitely should be, it's hugely inspiring to hear your story and all the work that you've done with children. I would like to see you as the MP four education now, if we can make that happen and do some changes to the education system, but one step at a time. Yeah, definitely. I'll be an advisor. Good. We'll, we'll get you that roll. I'll, I'll make some calls after this. Well, thank you so much for your time today, Claire. Yeah, thank you so much for having me. I've loved it. 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