Success to Significance, Seek God's Direction, Do It Scared with Ian Watts

What happens when success isn’t enough anymore?

In this powerful episode of Unapologetic Leadership, Cory Dunham sits down with entrepreneur, author, and leadership expert Ian Watts to explore the shift from chasing success to living a life of true significance.

Ian shares his journey from growing up in poverty in Detroit to achieving financial success at a young age—only to realize that money alone doesn’t bring fulfillment. Through faith, purpose, and leadership, he discovered a deeper mission: building businesses that bless the world.

Together, Cory and Ian discuss how leaders can seek God’s direction, overcome fear, and step into their calling—even when it means doing it scared. They dive into leadership lessons about faith, decision-making, purpose, and creating impact that goes far beyond financial success.

If you want to lead with conviction, strengthen your faith, and transform your success into meaningful impact, this episode will challenge and inspire you.

About Ian Watts

Ian Watts is an accomplished author, speaker, coach, and expert on workforce transformation, helping executives enhance employee engagement, boost team performance, and reduce employee turnover in 90 days or less, guaranteed. He delivers results through powerful keynotes, workshops, and his proprietary leadership framework known as The ACTS Method.

With over two decades of experience as a business coach, Ian has built HR systems and scaled staffing leadership—helping grow a company from 6 to 60 locations nationwide while recruiting more than 400 team members with minimal turnover.

As the founder of SB Dream Coach and Employee Success Company, Ian has helped transform leaders across 30+ industries in more than 40 states and internationally in countries such as China, Canada, and Saudi Arabia.

Ian has shared stages with renowned speakers including ET, the Hip Hop Preacher, and Coach Stormy Wellington, and has been featured on FOX 2 News (Detroit), Equipped with Chris Brooks, and PBS (Detroit).

A committed servant-leader, Ian has also served in ministry for over a decade, including leadership with EMERG (Evangel Ministries Economic Restoration Group). His mission is simple yet powerful: to build businesses that bless the world by developing both the mindset and skill set leaders need to transform their lives and organizations.

Connect with Ian Watts:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ianmwatts/
Website: http://employeesuccesscompany.com/

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Welcome to Unapologetic Leadership. If you've felt stressed, overwhelmed, wrestling with the imposter syndrome, wondering if you're just not good enough, then this podcast is for you. So here's your host, Corey Dunham.

SPEAKER_01 0:21

Welcome to another episode of Unapologetic Leadership. And I am here with Ian Watts, who is the CEO of Employee Success Company and is an accomplished author, speaker, and go-to expert on personal and workforce transformation. Welcome, Ian.

SPEAKER_02 0:40

Thank you, Corey. I am excited to be here. Thanks so much for having me.

SPEAKER_01 0:44

Yes, you're very welcome. So tell us more about what you do and how you impact people.

SPEAKER_02 0:49

Sure. Well, if you will indulge me, I will take the longer route there to share how I got to doing what I do now, just because I think it might add a little bit more color for your audience. So I was born and raised on the east side of Detroit, and my story is somewhat a familiar one to some, but not all boys and girls that grew up in urban areas, and that my father was in prison. My mother, my brother, who's four years my senior, and I all lived on welfare. Actually, we lived on less than$580 per month. And so, as you can imagine, I wanted to get as far and as fast away from that reality as possible. And I saw entrepreneurship as a way out because I naively thought that money was the answer to all of my challenges. So I didn't just want to be a successful entrepreneur, I wanted to become a millionaire. And it didn't suffice that I wanted to be a millionaire, I wanted to get there by the age of 30. I actually achieved my goal by the age of 26, but the bottom fell completely and miserably out of my first business way back in 2006. And that was because, to a huge extent, I got good at learning how to do deals versus building a sustainable and scalable business. But that wasn't the only thing that happened. I was actually on a missions trip in Uganda, Africa, my very first international missions trip, learning that the bottom was falling out of my business. Then we had six really close deaths in our family, and then my wife became deathly ill with the birth of our first daughter. So we jokingly say that 06 was a good year because we're well on the other side of it, but it was a challenging season. But it was through that experience and during that time that God was really beginning to deal with my heart. It wasn't just that well, let me say it this way it helped to crystallize my mission, which is to build businesses to bless the world. And I want you to be able to build businesses, I want you to be really successful, but not just so the blessings are to you, it's so that they would flow through you to other people so that you can do it for my kingdom. Because it was so difficult, and I was looking for mentorship in the African-American community, and it was hard to find that burning desire to be what I didn't see is what caused me to be in the coaching space or to get into the coaching space. I wanted to build businesses to bless the world. I wanted to be what I didn't see, so I became a champion to the underdog, so to speak, for lack of better terms. And I've been coaching and training entrepreneurs for the past two decades in the areas of marketing and systems development, lean startup, and leadership. And more recently, one of the areas and one of the ways that God has really been stretching me in my capacity and really helped helping to reshape my identity as I transition into serving larger corporations. So though I've worked from startups literally to multi-billion dollar corporations, most of those, the larger corporations came by referral. Now I am much more intentional because of the impact that I believe that God would have me have, how God would have me have on the world. And so I transitioned two years ago into an employee success company, and it's designed to uh really help employees achieve their highest goals and dreams to discover and demonstrate what they're called to do, and it helps employers solve the issues with engagement, performance, and retention. So the way that I plan to impact the world is by working with large corporations so that I can work with their employees. I mean, you know, you spend eight, nine, ten, twelve hours at work. It would be great if that time were transformative, not just for the employer, but for the employees as well.

SPEAKER_01 4:16

Nice. No, that's really good.

SPEAKER_02 4:18

Yeah, that was a long way of giving the response. So hopefully I didn't I didn't uh go wrong, I wasn't too long-winded for you.

SPEAKER_01 4:24

No, no, no. This is this is all good stuff because you mentioned a lot of things in there. So with your entrepreneurial journey that you started off, what two things. Well, first we'll start. What do you feel gave you success in that initially?

SPEAKER_02 4:41

First of all, let me preface what I'm about to say by saying that I believe in the sovereignty of God so that I know that even as I was messing up, it was within the guardrails that he allowed. Now, having said that, I'm gonna say it, share something that doesn't sound very flattering. I was obsessed. I was really obsessed. I was obsessed with succeeding because I was running from the pains of poverty, and I thought, which I mentioned earlier naively that having money and having success would fill the void in my heart that both you and I know only Jesus can fill. I tried money, I tried sex, I tried trips, I tried things, none of it worked, right? But again, to the core of your question, I was obsessed. And from sunup to sundown, even to the point of not just exhaustion, but making myself sick, I was going to get after it. And so I believe that commitment is important, passion is important, obsession, not so much. So I believe that is probably what contributed most to my success. And the reason that I was obsessed, it was because the hole in my heart that I was trying to fill, and I was running from poverty. So I believe that you can do a lot of things when you have a drive that just will not relent. For better, and even unfortunately, sometimes for worse.

SPEAKER_01 6:04

Yeah. So having so basically having anything that's a resource in abundance, sometimes depending on the purpose, isn't correct or isn't right in the right direction, then yeah, it may not be the direction that's going.

SPEAKER_02 6:18

It's such an interesting dynamic that the the very thing that can make you wildly successful is the very thing that you have to be on guard against because your strength in many cases can often become one of your greatest weaknesses if you're not careful. That's why, you know, I believe life is a team sport, right? Uh God did not create us to be an island. You know, if you if you separate, you cut off one of our body parts, it eventually dies, right? It withers and dies. So it's so important to not go at it alone, uh, to make sure, especially during more challenging seasons. One of the things that's characteristic during challenging seasons or storms, for lack of better terms, is that you can't see straight in the middle of it. So when you're in the middle of a storm, when you're in the middle of probably getting in your own way a little bit too much, it's good to just lean upon the body, making sure you have a support system. So thankfully, now I have that in in abundance. It is one of the greatest blessings that I have. You realize really quickly, you know, it's not about you, and life is a team sport.

SPEAKER_01 7:22

So yeah. No, that's really good because what I what I've recently identified is that when I look back and really reflect, I look at two main sources or things that have become idols in my life that were not pointing toward God and God alone and Christ alone. And two of those idols, one was money. So you and I are very like-minded in that one. And and also I found later on, after decades, that money did not actually give me the satisfaction, similar to what you said.

SPEAKER_02 7:51

Didn't I give it to hear it? We hear it so frequently. So, first of all, thank you for your transparency and admitting that. And I know what it's like to build a bridge to a place that you realize it wasn't where you wanted to be, it did not give you what you thought. Because the reality is, it's not the money that we're chasing, it's what we believe the money will do for us, and it's how it will make us feel. And when it doesn't make us feel that way, and we recognize that the only satisfaction, and there's something we need money, right? So let's just, from a really practical perspective, we need money, and even the Bible says it answers to all things. So I get that, but anything outside of its context, anything that we put in the place of the Lord to satisfy us in a way that only He can is dangerous. It's really, really dangerous. And and and it's fool's goal. You're setting yourself up for failure.

SPEAKER_01 8:46

Yep. No, I think that's amazing. And so many people chase that, and that's what we're seeing on a lot of the social media accounts is that, oh, you know, how can you make a hundred grand next month by starting your own business or going online or doing this course or that course?

SPEAKER_02 8:59

What I love is that you've got a hundred grand next month. I'm gonna take you from a startup to a hundred grand next month, and like listen, folks, it takes ten years to become an overnight success. I repeat it. So it sinks in for people. It often takes 10 years, sometimes more, to become an overnight success. So, yeah, it's fool's goal. And the reality is it's fodder for a lot of foolishness and for a lot of emptiness and a lot of brokenness to follow because a lot of people think what we thought that it would give us what we were looking for, and it does not, though it's helpful, though it's useful, and though I would prefer to have a little bit of money versus not, you know what I mean? Right, right. It's not the end all and be all. It does take pressure away, it does give you the opportunity to think beyond just emergency mode and how can I pay the bills this month or next month, or how am I going to send my kids to wherever it is that you may want to send your kids. So again, it's important. I don't want people to hear this and get the impression that we're saying that money is bad. It is not, but money is a tool, it should be used, and it should be used in the context of I think you know, 1 Corinthians 10 31 is so important about money and anything else, whether you eat or drink, it's all for him. And if we can keep that in context, if that is in the forefront, then I think we do well.

SPEAKER_01 10:24

Yes, yes, and then that whole pass-through of God's blessings flowing through you and the impact and the creation in terms of serving God and then serving our neighbor, loving our neighbor as for ourselves. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 10:36

It's kind of when you make the shift from not that success is bad, but from success to significance. And obviously, how you define things makes a big difference, but often success is what I can achieve for me. Significance is what is it that I can do so that I can create opportunities for and be a blessing to other people. Now, granted, people define success differently, and some may already have the definition of significance substituted for success, but I think the vast majority of people, as they think about success, it's what I want to achieve, what I want to accomplish, what I want for me, the way I want to live, my lifestyle. Nothing wrong with having desires, having aspirations regarding the type of lifestyle that you want to live. We've been given all things to enjoy, but you know, it's not just about us. We should be considering others a bit more highly than ourselves. We mentioned it, context is important and what's most important and who we keep at the forefront. What really is an issue of heart? What is what is it that's keeping your heart panting? Is it your desire for stuff and things for you, or is it for him? Because life is fleeting, it's short, it's filled with trouble. We don't know how much time we have. So I think we would all do well to be about the business of living for that day and not this one. Enjoy it, appreciate it, endure the hard times, be a blessing to other people, do your best to discover and demonstrate what you've been uniquely called to do, which outside of our salvation and leading people to the Lord is the most significant thing we can do to be able to discover and demonstrate our calling. I think about John 17, 4, Jesus said, I have glorified you here by completing the work or the assignment that you've given me. So, you know, understand and appreciate what your assignment is, and understand that though you may be given the seed or the vision for it, um, you may not live to see its fruition, but you should probably not you, we should be busy. We should be busy going about that work in case God calls us home so that we can hear well done.

SPEAKER_01 12:43

Yes. Yes, that's pretty powerful. And uh you mentioned one thing, I'm gonna share a couple things first, but you mentioned just how you know success takes significance is such a huge I just did judo to my brain because most people want to be successful, but in and of success, it can be more superficial and kind of an exterior validations instead of going towards significance. And then yeah, yeah, and I was gonna say too, the the other thing, which I had two things that I realized were idols for me. The other thing was a person, which was my wife, uh focusing on her. And I love my wife, she's awesome wife and mom. Yeah, yeah. And I was looking at that man, and I just realized this in the last couple of months. If I was thinking, man, uh we're both in our 50s, and I'm like, if we ride off into the sunset together in our retirement, I'm like, that's gonna be a good life. But I'm like, no, it's not. God never said that, oh, yeah, if you write off into the sunset and you stay together and you're married, even though we've been married for 26 years, it I was realizing I was putting my wife or a person first. Before I was putting God, so I switched that order around, and now over the last several months, I have shifted that and put God first, and now I can see my wife in even a better light than I did before.

SPEAKER_02 14:01

So that was an interesting love that I so love that. Can I chime in and just share? I wish I could remember exactly how long ago it was. It was at least over a year ago now, and I was just having a I was about to say random, but it wasn't so random. But let's just say it was a random conversation with a stranger, and somehow we got on the topic of marriage. And I shared that I'd been married at the time, I'd been married for 20 years, and she asked me what was the key to a successful marriage, and I'm sure my response was not what she was looking forward to, and she eventually would go on to say as much. The big key that God has impressed upon me, and the reason that I believe my marriage is so successful, is because I love God much more than I love my wife. Um, that I'm going to have to give an account for how I have treated his daughter, despite however she may or may not have made me feel. Right? When I made that commitment, it wasn't if she was treating me the way that I would like. It wasn't if only, you know, it was sunshine and rainbows, right? So even, and it's this is rare. Thank God. My wife is such an amazing blessing, so much so that if I share too much, it would feel like I was being boastful. But that's that's just because God has just blessed me in that area with an amazing wife. But she's a human just like I am. So even during times where I may be upset with her, which is rare, I have to remind myself that, all right, first of all, she was my friend. We were best friends out of high school, but even more important than that, this is God's daughter. And I'm going to have to give an account as a leader, as the head of the house, of how I treat his daughter. So I have to love God more than I love my wife, which allows me to overflow with love for my wife even more.

SPEAKER_01 15:58

That's such a great perspective. And I don't hear that talked about too much out there in most of the media or some of the conversations I have with people. So I appreciate you saying that.

SPEAKER_02 16:07

Well, you know, we we march to we we have a different rule book, right? We march to the beat of a different set of drums. So, um, or at least we're supposed to, and I am in no way saying that I do it perfectly. I have to have my wrist slapped and get put on timeout time and time again, and God is just gracious by giving me another day, another chance to get it right. Having stated that, the standard is his rule book. And it doesn't really matter our opinions or how we feel about it. If we are serious and if we're committed to saying we believe in the God of this Bible, and we believe that his word is inerrant, and it is not just useful, but it is our guidebook for life, right? These are the manufacturers' instructions, so our opinion doesn't matter that much about how we feel. I mean, there are many scriptures that I not just scriptures, there are whole pages I want to rip out sometimes. Like, listen, can we just rip? But we were not giving editing privileges.

SPEAKER_01 17:07

Oh, right. I didn't expect you to say that. That was cool. That was cool.

SPEAKER_02 17:12

Oh, goodness, there's so much more I can say, but I won't. I know our time is brief.

SPEAKER_01 17:17

Yeah. No, and that's that's uh such a great thing that, as you said, we're not giving editing privilege. And many of us, if you look at it right now, there's seven or eight billion people on the planet, and if we have our all of our own opinions, who how do we operate in that? Everybody's doing their own thing, nobody's working together, like you said earlier in this podcast episode, that we need to work together to pursue goals, to pursue God's purpose, and all of that. So I think that's huge. You're talking about that God's word is unchanging. And it's been around for eternity, it's gonna keep going, whatever that even means in our brains. I don't think most people can even fathom you know, we're close to what eternity means. And that I tell people anytime our lives are a second. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:05

It ruins the hard drive, it blows my fuses, and when those things happen, I'm like, you know what? We don't have all knowledge, but we have sufficient knowledge to believe. And when my when I was younger, I used to always ask, Well, you know, our finite mind tells us that if we see a building, there was somebody who built it, right? So we see uh something that's been created, we see a creator. And in my mind, as a young guy, I know I used to wear my mom out, hey mom, so who created God? I am is still difficult for me right now. So I'm like, all right, all right, let me let me shut that down. Um that's one of those bow-year circuit type deals. I am that I am, I've always existed. And I don't even think we have the capability to fully comprehend that because all we know is everything that is created has a creator. So the fact that God is just self-existent and has always been and always will be, that's enough to keep you from sleeping tonight or for the next several nights.

SPEAKER_01 19:03

Oh my goodness, yeah. But we but we take it on faith. Yep. Exactly, and that's huge. And I think recognizing that instead of seeking answers for everything, God doesn't want us to do that, he wants us to trust in him. Like you said, we have sufficient knowledge. Yeah, not all knowledge, but sufficient.

SPEAKER_02 19:25

We have sufficient enough to have faith in God's saving grace through his son Jesus, and I'll take it. That's enough for me. That is enough. Even though intellectual, my my curiosity, and if I were being intellectually honest, there are just some things that are just difficult. And that tension will just be here until I get on the other side of heaven.

SPEAKER_01 19:45

I hear it. I want to ask you a few more questions before we close out here because we're getting close. And just one quick I know this has been fun. This has been really fun for me. So I really appreciate you being on. And the one thing that struck me is that you've quoted scripture multiple times in this episode. Tell me about quoting scripture in terms of how does that affect your leadership or how you move around in life and business and personally with knowing scripture. Sure.

SPEAKER_02 20:16

Well, what I can share, and I'll tell you, I'm looking down because I just saw an image, and maybe this might be helpful. I just saw an image of a wet rag and wringing out a wet rag. What comes out of that rag when you wring it out is whatever it was soaked in, right? And so as I think about scripture, it in my better days, it informs, in my better moments, it informs everything that I do. Even if you remove Jesus out of the Bible, it's been said about it that it is the greatest book of wisdom known to man. So the more we soak or saturate ourselves in the greatest book of wisdom known to man, it impacts every single area of our lives, not just our parenting, what type of so let me just as a blanket statement say it impacts everything. So I do my best to allow scripture to inform everything that I do, and we also know that all wisdom is from above, so even if it's not in scripture, to the extent that it doesn't conflict with what the word says, have at it. So it's important what we watch, it's important, and a lot of people, it's too simple to some people to say that we have to guard what we watch and we have to guard what we take in. Because when the storms of life arise and when we feel like we're being tossed to and fro, what comes out of us is based upon what's been soaked, what we've been soaked or soaked ourselves in. And I believe, and I obviously I know your podcast is not just about faith, it's also about leadership. The first level of leadership is self leadership, and that is being very intentional about. What you allow to watch over you, that's what comes out, right? In all of the key areas of life, including leadership. So that's what I would say. It's in my better moments, and I don't always do great at it, but in my better moments, I allow it to anchor everything that I do. That's always my intent and my hope.

SPEAKER_01 22:18

That's fantastic. Yeah. So what's one of the biggest leadership lessons you've learned? I know for me there's tons of them, but the one that you can Oh, that was that one is actually a tough one.

SPEAKER_02 22:29

I was wrestling with that more recently, and I came up with a number of different answers. And if you were to ask me this next week, perhaps I might have a different answer. But the thing that comes to me right now is the fact that we have to be comfortable being uncomfortable. And here's what I mean by that. The very first leadership book I ever read, probably over 25 years ago, was John Maxwell's 21 Irrefutable Laws of Leadership. And the very first law in that book is called the Law of the Lid. Now, when I say we have to get comfortable being uncomfortable, that simply means that we have to continue to challenge ourselves to grow. Because if we have, if we're leading a group of high-capacity, high-flying leaders, the reality is this we are the lid level on the leadership capabilities of our organization. So if we stop, our leadership is capped. And if you have really strong leaders, eventually what will happen is your cat is going to be a turnoff. They have to make sure that they can go where they can flourish, right? So getting comfortable being uncomfortable, it means that we have to constantly challenge ourselves to stretch, to grow, so that we're always growing so that we can be more effective leaders. And it also means this a part of that, and what's really akin to that challenging and getting comfortable being uncomfortable is learning how to do things afraid, right? Though we can call it a number of different things and we can dress it up, I'm convinced that everything great is on the other side of fear. And so many of the things that cause that discomfort that I mentioned is because it can expose our GUI center, right? It can expose areas of weakness that we hadn't necessarily developed the muscle in. So in order to change things, we first have to become aware of it. We're exposed to it, then we can work on it. And you can't always do that in a vacuum, right? And we also have to, and here's the final thing that I'll say, and my apologies for being long-winded because this is that was such an amazing question. And there's so many things that are coming to me, but I will try to crystallize and close it out by saying this. One of the things that is really important when you're leading other people, and I believe leading them in a way that's most effective. There are different leadership styles, they're different leadership models. A part of that, being courageous and doing it afraid, is opening yourself up and allowing people to get close to you. And one of the things you find is that to it again to do leadership the right way, I think there has to be this level of transparency, this uh vulnerability that you express so that your people can identify with you, so that they don't think that you're a robot, so that they don't have this issue with making a connection. They need to see, right, that you are still growing. They need to see the areas, and it's better if you people see it anyway, right? They may not tell us, but they see it. So it requires courage to expose that, and it also requires courage knowing that you very well may get hurt, right? You can pour your all into people and find that they never, that things just don't transpire the way that you would have liked, that you would have hoped. And that sometimes people can take some of your vulnerabilities that you share and use it against you. But the reality is we still have to be courageous enough and we have to live in that space of being comfortable, being uncomfortable. We have to provide to do it afraid because we know we're living for that day and not this one, and that is not just about us. So we can't allow the hurt, which is what often causes most of us to withdraw. We can't allow that to keep us from doing what is in the best interest of the people that we lead, because we are called to be his light, and we're called to make sure, despite how they react. Now, yes, we have to be wise because we run businesses, sometimes we have to transition people out. I get that. But just generally speaking, we just got to get comfortable being uncomfortable because there's some things that can be exposed in us, there's some challenges with things that we're always going to have to do to get over our own fears, our own insecurities, so that we can continue to grow and lead our people well. So that was a long-winded answer, another one. But hopefully that's helpful with someone out there.

SPEAKER_01 26:50

I'd like to switch out that word long-winded to thorough.

SPEAKER_02 26:56

Oh my god, language is such a beautiful thing and so powerful. So, you know what? I'm going to go with thorough. I love the connotation.

SPEAKER_01 27:04

And thank you for it. Yeah, you're welcome. You're welcome. But that's the thing. When when you see success patterns and you're trusting in God, God shows up in many different ways. And there's no just many times one simple way to explain it or the experience of it is is going to be different for everybody, everybody. Sure. So I think it's it's important. Yeah, you sharing the perspective that you had. And I think that's really great. So I know you've talked about how you stay aligned with your purpose and all of these things, like when pressure's on. Well, how has your inner conviction or faith played a role in how you handle tough decisions? Is that a part of that fear? Making tough decisions, or is that something different?

SPEAKER_02 27:48

No, no. I I think it's it's all interrelated, it's connected. Handling tough decisions, it's a little bit easier going back to just bathing ourselves in the word. When you trust in God's sovereignty, you embrace the idea that because of who we belong to, all things are working for our good and his glory. So you do the best that you can. There's safety in the multitude of counsel, so you get as much counsel as you can. You do your best to see if God will allow you to hear the still small voice so that you can more comfortably and confidently walk in what you would have what he would have you do. But sometimes you just, and maybe even I would say, I would dare say, at least for me, many times you just don't know how things are going to work out. You trust that it will. But I think as a leader, one of the greatest things that we have to do is to make quality decisions, right? And not making a decision is really a decision in and of itself, right? And sometimes you're going to get your knees scuffed, and sometimes you're going to fall on your face. But after a decision is made, after you've done your best to get wisdom, after you've done your best to hear from the Lord, run hard and run fast in that direction. Because at least if it wasn't the right decision, if it wasn't the thing, it will be the thing that leads to the thing so that you can pivot more quickly. I think the problem for a lot of leaders is there's this analysis paralysis because they don't want to be wrong. Well, newsflash, we're all going to be wrong. And what's even more wrong is not making a decision because it makes it worse, at least if it's not the ultimate decision or the right decision. If you make it and you take all of the data that you have, you get all of the wisdom that you can gather, you make a decision, you move fast in that direction, and then if you find out it's not right, you simply pivot. But to put a bow tie around that, going back to how I opened up, just because God is sovereign and we're his doesn't mean we're not going to bump our heads, right? James lets us know that we're going to go through challenges, we're going to be stretched so that we can be perfected, but it's ultimately going to be for our good and his glory because he's in control of it all. So though it sucks, and though there may be tears, and though you may scuff up your knees, and though you may be banged up and bruised a little bit, make the decision and get after it. And if you find that it's not the right one, pivot.

SPEAKER_01 30:28

That's awesome. And that's I know that's one thing I had to learn. Took me many years. I never want to make a mistake or be laughed at and made fun of. You and me both. Yeah, felt like I was gonna die or something, and I realized that came from my elementary school friends getting laughed at and making fun of each other every time they raised their hand and did actually ask a dumb question. But I was just like, I'm not gonna do that. So I ended up in when I went to Eastern Michigan University, I ended up taking calculus. I didn't get help, I didn't ask questions because I didn't want to look stupid, and I just tried to figure it out, but I got a D plus, so basically I failed. I took that class again, paid for it again, and I did the exact same process, but I'm like, oh, maybe I'll pick up some crumbs.

SPEAKER_02 31:11

But I didn't ask questions, I didn't think class again before you can move on.

SPEAKER_01 31:18

I love it. Yes, oh my gosh. And I I did that again, and I even share that with my kids, just saying, hey, don't be a bumhead, like you said, have how did you say it in terms of it's important to have many uh pieces of wisdom and counseling?

SPEAKER_02 31:34

It's being a multitude of counsel, right? Thank you. Kings and queens, leaders at the highest level. I mean, even our government, there's an entire cabinet. Our president has his key advisor, he's he has a cabinet, and it's important that we that we take advantage of it. You know, one of those things, what one of the characteristics that I found about sharp leaders is that they are willing to ask the most quote unquote dumb questions, right? They're willing to ask the questions and they're willing to get clarity. And what I've also discovered is that that really speaks to their level of self-confidence, right? Because they're not concerned about putting on airs for anybody else. I'm really trying to understand what we're doing here so that I can be effective and make the best decision to move forward and marshal my troops in the right direction. But one of the things that I've really come to appreciate about successful leaders is that to a huge extent, leadership success boils down to the amount of discomfort, sustained discomfort over a long period of time that people are willing to live with, right? Because you cannot know everything. You'll never, we will never know everything. You're always going to be being stretched, you're always going to be being challenged, you should always be making decisions, many of which, or at least some of which will not be the right ones. So you just have to learn how to sit in that discomfort and to do so over an extended period of time. And just like a rubber band, I'm glad that God gives us seasons of reprieve where the challenge is relent. So after expanding, it contracts. But then, all right, that was only so I can stretch you more to make you more useful, to make you more fruitful, right? I am He's pruning those that he loves to make us even more useful, more fit for the kingdom.

SPEAKER_01 33:25

Yeah, no, that's powerful. And I love just your whole idea of everything is in a season. We are in seasons, nothing's permanent in most cases. We're just in the season. If and if we only look at it in that range of, or if we don't look at it in being a season, it's gonna look like a terrible life and the vision we have, like, ooh, this is not gonna get any better, which is why I'm sure some people take their lives or just can't see uh any possible good future. But trusting in God is to have no hope, right?

SPEAKER_02 33:55

That's why it can't be anchored in stuff or things. Like one of the things that I had to learn many years ago in seasons of what I would call suffering, is that, and you would hear this from the old saints in the church, when you can't trust his hand, meaning you don't know what he's doing or what he's allowing, right? Because he's sovereign, either he caused something to happen or to bare minimum, he allowed it to happen. And when you can't understand why he's doing this while you're in the midst of it, when you can't see what's going on, you can't understand his hand, you gotta trust his heart. You you gotta remind yourself that he's good, you gotta remind yourself that he's faithful, you gotta remind yourself that somehow, despite how it feels, it is working out for my good, right? You know, I think the problem for many people, and at times me included, because I I am tempted to kick and scream when I'm in really challenging seasons, just like the rest. But the Bible was clear when it said that life is short and is filled with trouble. I think that's one of those scriptures that, especially in the health and wealth family of doctrine, people like to overlook. I'm like, life is short and it's filled with trouble, and everybody isn't gonna be wealthy, and everybody isn't going to be healthy, right? For but you but you gotta know that if God allowed it, somehow he's gonna use it not just for the person's benefit, but so that he can be glorified, even when it sucks. Because make no mistake about it, sometimes it does, in fact, suck. It's like, listen, stop the train. Even in this past 90 days, we talked a little bit offline. There have been several days where I, in my mind, the fleeting thoughts came that listen, just stop the train just for a little. I'll get back on, but stop it, let me off. I'll get back on in just a touch, but for right now, let me off. Um, but God is faithful. So I'm glad to be here to be able to share, to be able to uh both learn from you and hopefully share some nuggets of wisdom that might encourage and empower your audience.

SPEAKER_01 36:00

Yep. No, that's fantastic. I really appreciate it. And I know I've had those seasons too where have been they've been very challenging. However, knowing scripture and being in the word, knowing that God loves and cares for me and he's there with me throughout all of it, that has given me so much peace through some of the challenges I've been through more recent years than it was previously when I'm trying to do everything myself. Hey, I'm following the rules, I'm got good habits, it's all about my habits. Right, right, right.

SPEAKER_02 36:29

Yeah, yeah. And then you guys, this is in my own strength. But let a storm come, it's like, uh oh, uh-oh. I need to be carried in this season. It sounds good. You're really, really strong. You got a whole lot of resolve, but there's so many people when the when faith is shallow, when it's put to the test, it crumbles. And so it's important, not only is God with me, but somehow, even though it sucks, it's gonna work out for my benefit. That's the one thing that's really, really helpful for me in the midst of a difficult season, learning to just get settled in, even though it's painful. It's like, all right, I've been through this before. Lord, you've proven yourself faithful in the past. I trust you're gonna do the same again. And somehow, on the other end of this, though I may not be able to see it for a significant period of time, if ever, I know that somehow you ordained this, assuming that we're not our own worst enemies and we're causing all of the unnecessary stuff that we shouldn't, right? Somehow it's gonna work out for my good. So it's not this just that you're with me, but you're gonna use this for me. That's what's really been encouraging for me, I would share, especially during really tough seasons.

SPEAKER_01 37:39

Yeah. Yeah. No, Ian, this has been an awesome episode. I truly appreciate you sharing your wisdom, your gifts, and just the direction and purpose and where that comes from, from God the Almighty and Christ Jesus. So I really appreciate that.

SPEAKER_02 37:54

It has most certainly been my pleasure. I feel like you and I could talk until this time tomorrow. So uh thank you for keeping us and me on track and just give me the opportunity to share what gets me excited, the Lord and being a business junkie and people junkie. So this has been awesome.

SPEAKER_01 38:11

Yep, you're very welcome. And so I want to thank you for listening to this episode of Unapologetic Leadership. And remember, shift from success to significance, do it scared, and allow God's blessings to flow through you. Thanks for listening.

SPEAKER_00 38:33

So that's it for today's episode of Unapologetic Leadership. Head on over to wherever you listen to podcasts and subscribe to the show. One lucky listener every single week that posts a review on Apple Podcasts or iTunes will win a chance in the grand prize drawing to win a$25,000 private VIP day with Corey Dunham himself. So head on over to Upologetic Leadership Podcast dot com and pick up a free copy of Corey's gift. And join us on the next episode.