Human-Centered High Growth Companies have Curiosity, Trust and Collaboration, with Tia Milder

In this episode of Unapologetic Leadership, Cory Dunham sits down with business consultant Tia Milder to explore what truly drives sustainable growth inside modern organizations. From leadership evolution and operational scaling to AI, trust, collaboration, and change management, Tia shares why human-centered companies consistently outperform organizations stuck in outdated leadership models. Together, they unpack the importance of empowering people, building adaptable systems, creating trust-driven cultures, and leading with curiosity in a rapidly changing business landscape. This conversation is packed with practical insights for leaders navigating growth, innovation, team burnout, and the future of work in the AI era.

About Tia Milder

Starting her career as a QA Engineer over 10 years ago, Tia has always focused on the quality of process, product, and peace of mind. Her ability to quickly learn systems, ask the right questions, understand operational details, and align teams around company objectives accelerated her rise into leadership roles across QA, Projects, Releases, and organizational operations.

With experience ranging from Fortune 500 companies to two-person startups across ecommerce, insurance, advertising, technology, photography, and more, Tia brings a unique ability to assess where companies and teams are today, identify operational gaps, and create impactful solutions from executive strategy down to day-to-day execution.

Known for her strong analytical thinking and communication skills, Tia bridges the gap between technical and non-technical teams while helping organizations align business goals with individual growth and fulfillment in a way that drives long term success.

Connect with Tia here:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tia-longo-milder-2475ba113/

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Welcome to Unapologetic Leadership. If you felt stressed, overwhelmed, wrestling with the imposter syndrome, wondering if you're just not good enough, then this podcast is for you. So here's your host, Corey Dunham.

SPEAKER_01 0:21

Welcome to this episode of Unapologetic Leadership, where I have a wonderful person, Tia Milder, who is a business consultant empowering leaders and companies through acquisitions, integrations, and rapid growth. And she has some great experience with tech companies, engineering, all different types of industries, including Fortune 500 companies, startups, a number of different things. So welcome to you.

SPEAKER_02 0:50

Thank you so much for having me, Corey.

SPEAKER_01 0:52

Yes, you're welcome. You're welcome. So tell me what types of things are you doing now and how are you impacting the world?

SPEAKER_02 0:59

Yeah, absolutely. So as stated previously, like after spending years in tech, I've noticed that companies, regardless of industry or size, really tend to struggle with two of the same things people and projects. So let me leaders want better change and implementation strategies. They want to be more efficient, more streamlined, better equipped for constant change. But in reality, none of this is possible without a clear understanding of their full company ecosystem. And I'm what I mean by that is how their teams connect, how work is actually done, and how decisions are really made. People and project management. And understanding the power of your people and the project processes. So most organizations don't have visibility into this. We've seen it time and time again. Leaders will push for change, but they don't fully understand how this works. And it, even for the sake of efficiency, it usually creates more chaos and it's rougher and tougher. But using my adaptive maturity model, I help companies evaluate their business processes and build adaptable systems that can grow and scale with them, their people, and their individual business needs. Because we're everybody is unique. There isn't, we have one set model for things, but one size doesn't fit all, your culture is different, your people are different. And that way we can really reduce operational friction, improve execution, and really empower people to do their best, but without burning out.

SPEAKER_03 2:42

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_02 2:43

I have various ways to get started with this, anywhere from a business stability assessment where we get to know each other and give a good idea about what your business is struggling with and how you want it to grow and improve. And even if you don't end up working with me, it can give you great insight into that. But I also have like quicker impacting things such as my project management blueprint to get you started in what defines a project, what are goals, completion strategies, like how you deal with people and milestones and more to come from that's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_01 3:14

Yeah, that sounds like a very encompassing structure and way to handle an organizations. And you said from all sizes or what size company?

SPEAKER_02 3:24

Yeah, so in reality, this can this has worked, this can work and has worked for all size companies. So I will really say that my niche area is rapid growth, particularly in this parts of watching the scaling aspect of them, right? You get so much business that you do you have a startup or you're a mid-sized company and you have your operations fairly well. And then all of a sudden all this business comes in, or you're introducing to a new area of play, and your business starts to grow and grow, but you recognize that your operations can't keep up, your people are burnt out because they're trying to do 17 things at one time now. You're trying to hire people but can't get them hired in quick enough. And what my methodology has is really setting a foundation so that your operational structures can work, but also that your people aren't stressed out 24-7 to in order to make better decisions and like to bring up things and have better ideas and be more empowered to help like create solutions for those problems. But it's not even from even a strictly leadership perspective, it's like an individual contributor perspective of we're solving issues together and building these processes together versus forcing, and like that doesn't work out well if you've ever tried it beforehand.

SPEAKER_01 4:38

So right, right. And I've seen I work mostly with executive leaders, whether they're business owners or C-suite level. And a lot of times what I see is that they're they are using kind of the same frameworks they used from the beginning of when they started their career, and they've learned some maybe tweaked ways of doing things, but then more commitment happens. Their company grows, the stress level, the time commitment, all different types of things, and then it leads to burnout, and then they're using that same framework that they were using from the beginning rather than either shifting some things where their priorities, leaning into their values, or just leaving their values completely. And then, of course, on the personal side, that affects the family and what they're doing in the personal level of things.

SPEAKER_02 5:25

And with this, so some of the biggest shift I think in leadership of what you're talking about. So is very traditional leadership to your point is hey, I've done this for a long time, do as I say, employees are the robots that do all the work, you know, I'm the expert, you're not, do as I say. And people get burnt out. And quite frankly, like operations fail eventually because it's okay, people don't have mind for yourself, versus in contrast, the parts that I really embody and is actually part of my model, a leadership evolution, towards more modern leadership. So, so what do I mean by that? Modern leadership is about collaboration, curiosity, and trust. So recognizing that myself as a leader, I have ownership and experience, right? I have expertise, there's a reason I am where I am, but I've also hired incredibly talented and smart people to be collaborators with me who might see things differently than me and be able to help the business in a different way. So really empowering different perspectives, create space for dialogue and becoming having people be more invested in the business, and you get better quality ideas and outcomes for this because you do these things. I think we especially see this, not to bring the trigger word up, but like in the age of AI, right? I mean, so just to people are not AI experts. It's been around for a long time, but like CEOs are particularly not AI experts, or you're like, oh, hey, we're trying to make things more efficient, but they also haven't worked in the nitty-gritty day-to-day in 10 years, you know, or decades more, because you're being an executive leader, you're thinking about strategy. So, really to make these things like successful and well, of either adapting new things is leaders who stay curious and human-centered of like, hey, you know this, like you're experts in your field, you have an idea of how you interact with the client, how this is made, how that is made, and are open to influence and experimentation, are the ones who actually unlock innovation, help their company stay competitive, and get away from this like grinding mindset of, well, all my old stuff doesn't work, but I don't know anything different. You hire great people. There's a reason that where you have a team. So, and this is where I really think the shift is happening, um, not only previously, but especially now.

SPEAKER_01 7:52

Yeah, no, I think that's amazing. And it's funny how you you poised how you stated AI, as I've talked to a lot of people. And I used to have the mindset that, oh, everybody's so used to using AI now with all the different ads I see out there and all the apps that are constantly being pushed out there. But I've heard somebody else and a couple people now say that a lot of people have not really been trained on it, don't know when to use it, unless it's just for personal gain or maybe shortcutting projects that have to do little research or creating a PDF one sheet or something. But uh I totally agree with that. And I think personally, with so much information being pushed out there, I feel that people are overwhelmed. So by the time they get started on maybe using Chat GPT or something else that's out there, before you know it, there's more apps, more possibility, and nobody's able to really use it effectively. And then the other side of that is people like, ooh, my job's gonna be taken. I've heard spoken to a person who was going to med school, he dropped out because he could see that AI would eventually take that job and take other opportunities. So a lot of I don't want to say lower level jobs, whether they're admin jobs, but just jobs where you're in the organization, and then we think of some of these professional things, whether pilots, doctors, lawyers, people thought, oh, those are protected. But then we're seeing some cases, even when I had my right hip replacement surgery three weeks ago, they used a robot, and I don't know, they didn't say anything about AI in there, but it was robot assisted with the doctor doing that. So robots, AI, all this other stuff. What are your thoughts on AI and human-centric? Because we're talking about human beings and elevating humans. What are your some of the first things that jumped to your head on that?

SPEAKER_02 9:40

So any sort of research you actually do with people who are at like actually AI experts or like leading these things will admit like AI is super generic without human intervention.

SPEAKER_01 9:52

So I didn't expect you to say that generic super generic.

SPEAKER_02 9:56

Generic, yeah, without human intervention. So I think there is an idea of like, oh my gosh, it's like going to take my job. If you if you do nothing and like you just you sit alone in a room, then it might. But the reality of it, but the reality of it is like A1, AI needs human beings to actually be successful. And that's not like, oh, I'm gonna give it my information so we can, you know, I have no job. It's let's work with it as a tool because it is a tool that needs to be framed for our lives, but there's so much potential in how we can actually guide it. I think a lot of people have fear-minded for it, but the reality of it is that it could actually amplify our lives so we could be doing things I don't like repetitive tasks that we don't want to do, or you know, or like a piece of like, hey, you know, there's like human errors with these things. Help me write this document faster. I'm like, I'm gonna data dump and then like be a collaborator with me on this. But I think to be AI-centric, you actually have to be more human-centric because you and I'm gonna quickly explain why. So AI is all about using it as I think the AI first mindset is actually like a human-centric mindset. So when they say this, a lot of people are like, the first steps are using AI as a copilot, using it as like a collaborator, and then um iterating, right? But the reality of it is to even get to the point to use it as a co-pilot, we as human beings have to understand our systems, organization, our knowledge. AI doesn't know that. And sure, it's like if you go through like the technical logic bit of it, it's not human-minded. It's because it does a bunch of data, it gathers a bunch of patterns. It's like, okay, this pattern, like Apple could either mean the technology company, Apple Pie, like apples, all these things. So it's like, okay, I'm gonna use a bunch of context to kind of figure out what you're talking about, versus human beings instantly knowing the context of things, or we'll have like a natural flow of things. And human beings are we're not robots, right? Which is actually the positive side about this. So, one for using it as a co-pilot is we actually, as human beings, have to be knowledge-filled, organize our thoughts, organize things, work with sounding boards with other human beings to make this work. AI has nothing to pull from. I know it's like use data in the background, but it's not going to take your job because you're like so proficient at your job. You know all the ins and outs, you know how to interact with the client. And I think we've seen I don't want to interact with a robot in like high-intensity situations for those things. So I'm trying to get my husband's flight was delayed and he was in the air and we didn't couldn't re-book. And I was trying to be like, hey, please get me to someone so I can help. And they're like, Are you the person who's on the flight? I'm like, no, I'm not. But I couldn't get around it. So now I don't book with that airline because I I'm like, I want to talk to a human being who can like, it doesn't, my situation wasn't the typical FAQ section. And so I'm gonna go around it. And then I want because I want that human connection. And they, I'm assuming the airline that I now book with still uses AI in the programmatic sense, but not in like the human sense. Um, and then with this in terms of iteration and changes, there's always a concept of, again, all AI experts will say there needs to be a human in the loop, which means that like equally as okay, human we all as human beings we make mistakes, but programs also very much make mistakes. If it is not, you know, it's like, hey, it says this really confidently, but you have to fact check it. Or it might be like, I'm like, hey, I test I tested software in a previous life and I tested it, I've tested AI for a hot a long time, actually. So I'd be like, hey, don't include, I want recipes that don't have any dairy in them. Please give me, you know, please give me a list of those. Instantly, it's like, here are recipes with dairy. You know? So I I just want to I want to say it's like it sure is AI a growing and the scope to which it is, but very much like the expertise of human beings and who we are will never be replaced. Our connections will never be replaced. And I want to say we are such the beginning phases of AI. I feel like everyone's stating like the future is this, and we're all going to be replaced. They don't know that. They're just I think they're they're saying it for the purely basis of like, oh well, well, maybe, but we really have the opportunity now to define like how AI is used, what where we want to use it, and how to actually make it a good for humanity and good for human beings, versus, hey, I'm just gonna give up because I think AI is gonna take my job. But as a doctor, I want to talk to a human being, not a robot, because you're gonna have a much better scope of my situation or even like empathy and the connection of delivering these things versus just a robot.

SPEAKER_01 14:37

So yeah, no, I appreciate that. And real quickly, can you share how many years ago you said you've been involved with AI or testing or whatever, how many years ago? Because AI I thought pretty much started about five years ago.

SPEAKER_02 14:51

So, yeah, I got I have worked with machine learning models, which is another like form of AI and LLMs since 2018.

SPEAKER_03 15:00

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 15:01

I will say, at least now when I originally started working with it as a tester. So as a tester, I'm like, hey, like what is the context? What are the details? Where I asked very much like, what is the expected outcome? What's the logic of the thing that I'm testing? Because it and back in the day, they would be like, no idea. Because they used to be not, it used to be like an almost wizard of oz case of like, so there would be these machine learning models and it would go into the abyss, and logic would happen, and then things would come out, and then they'd be like, All right, Tia, test it. And I'm like, okay, so what's the outcome? Like, how how I can't just be like, test it. There's nothing like, yeah, we don't know the logic. So as much as I think people are, I think, worried about it now, at least there's more transparency in how the logic works, how the models are made, which I actually think is a very positive thing, versus in the original forms of AI, it was like it could do what you want, or it can completely, totally not do what you want. And you almost had like no say in how the model was constructed.

SPEAKER_01 16:00

That sounds so ridiculous.

SPEAKER_02 16:02

In my mind, like, you know, and I'm sure other people who had different experiences with machine learning models might feel differently, but that was my experience from testing it and for our with our data analysts in 2018. So I'm like, all right, I'm gonna just I'm gonna do a bunch of runs, I'm gonna see what the pattern does, I'm gonna see how data is impacted, but no one can really tell me versus now at least, hey, how is this ethically being sourced? What is the logic of the details? How are these things being crafted? So as I think as scary as some of this is, but it's also becoming more transparent, which is actually refreshing. And again, we can craft it more in the way that we want and use it for our leadership and our people in a way that's positive and can create a better humanity, versus, well, I don't know what it does, it just kind of creates an output and good luck with that, you know. And they're like, Oh, but it's new tech, it's fancy. Because in 2018, everyone's like, oh my gosh, it's amazing. I was like, I promise you it's not gonna take anyone's job because it actually um, and the only transparently, the only reason I got involved with testing it was because people implemented it and it blew up our numbers in a very bad way. Oh, and then they were like, Hey Tia, we need you to check this. And I'm like, Okay, great, let's do that, you know, instead of going around me. So again, like pros and cons for the world, but I appreciate the I think we can play it up to allow giving us the time and space back to be human beings and be really good what we're good at at a human being perspective, and allow these the sort of the mundane tasks that are more of a nuisance to be handled by AI in that fashion as well.

SPEAKER_01 17:43

Right. No, I appreciate that. And it's so interesting, and as you were talking about just the whole idea of not really having defined results or values that you're looking for with the AI results and what it was trying to solve back then. It's so funny when those things happen. But I think, wait a minute, that these were organizations or people who had a vision for what AI could do. They didn't necessarily know that total vision or complete vision, but at least they were taking action on it and learning and all going through all the iterations. So we're at a point today because of all those mistakes or challenges or different things that happen. So I love that idea of just either being a maverick or having a passion or a goal toward things and being willing to take action even when we don't have confidence in what that outcome is going to be. So I really appreciate that. And now, how for you personally, how did how does your maybe your life's journey take you through this whole process of working in all these different organizations, industries, and now you're into process and people management or project management? How have your personal values showed up in the things you're doing today that impact in a positive way these organizations that you're working with?

SPEAKER_02 18:58

Yeah, I think for me from the very beginning of so I think when I originally joined the workforce, I initially took like a very traditional stance of you're like almost, hey, don't make friends. You're like, you know, it's like don't be too close. It's interesting. So don't be too close with the people you work, because this is what I was told in like corporate America, right? You to do well in corporate America, you're like, don't become too close with the people you work with, like kind of just think of ideas, but um, you know, sort of do as you're told. And very quickly I learned, I was like, that is not me at all. And that's also actually not how you thrive in business or create a thriving company as well. So, but in terms of aligning values in my journey of this, it's really we didn't call it modern leadership back in the day of like embodying those things, but like lead, like collaboration, curiosity, and building trust. So something I recognize very quickly because within one year of joining corporate America, I was a lead of five plus teams. And it's a 23-year-old who's like, I'm leading people like 20 years my senior, uh, because I because the there's two things that I was the was actually three things that I was the best at this point in time. This idea of understanding, like I could see the holistic part of the business. I could see how the end, the beginning to the end goal, what we were trying to do, the people we're trying to serve. But then I could also see the individual pieces of the teams that make up that flow, how the teams interact with each other, how our projects impact the various teams or the end client. And that world gave me such a different perspective of like how to lead the teams, how to work with the people. And they not just create this, all right, I'm just gonna do my one job and my one thing. But hey, you if you do this, actually impacts this team and this team in a great and positive way. And I go, Oh, I didn't think about that. I did like then this builds a human connection, and then in the same vein for that, the other pieces are this building of trust. So being transparent with teams, you can motivate people so much more. Again, it doesn't matter the size of the company, the industry you're in, you can motivate people so much more by actually empowering them, which I think the opposite of what you're originally told for. Yes, you know, because you're originally like, okay, you gotta tell them what to do and force them. I again, having worked for, I always end up, no matter what industry or team, I end up again with the team that owns the most scope. I always it includes legacy systems, which is old things that people haven't touched in 20 years and everyone's afraid, a toothpick somewhere in Wisconsin, you're like, don't touch it. New projects, right? So we're like innovating and we support this old piece. But what I found very early is that if you see, I could see this whole I could see the holistic systems and how they all fit together, which is a view that most people don't have. But it's a way that we're actually able to get things done quicker and in more scope and have people actually more invested in it because they can see it. But also is that people are our super. Superpowers, meaning if I brought trust and transparency and included people, the moment I have issues with anything, I have volunteers help me. I have people be like, hey T, I don't know what it is, but I will help you do it because I have their back and they have mine. Versus if you ever tried to do this on a different team, you didn't have that trust. It's like pulling teeth to get people to help you.

SPEAKER_01 22:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:22

Yeah. So having these experiences at other places where I'm watching this very short term, this is only my section, I don't care about anybody else. And then seeing the sort of like mistrust built is where I now built a process like that is human-centric. Like I've my tagline for myself is I love people, I build systems, and I help companies grow. But people are first because with the people, you can build the systems, and then you can help your company grow in a way that is much more organic, a way that is not like it things will get challenging for sure. But there's can be a difference between suffering needlessly in my mind of okay, we have to do it, versus, hey, this is a challenging new opportunity, and having volunteers that know that you got their back and you they got yours in the transformation of your business.

SPEAKER_01 23:16

Oh, I think I think, yeah, go ahead, go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 23:19

And jokingly, but not jokingly, I think my third superpower is recapping, honestly, because you go to more meetings now where people are like, okay, great. We're uh it's like, okay, is everything good? Everyone's like, yep. And then the moment they leave, you know. So like, okay, nobody remembers anything, you know. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:38

No, I think that's fantastic that you mentioned. You mentioned a lot of great points there, but the whole idea of recapping, as I've been, and actually a couple things. As you mentioned, that people are so important as I've grown up as this introvert and quiet. I never used to think that people were important. I've had to learn that, and I've truly valued that now that I've learned that just because I was introverted or quiet or afraid of my shadow, posture syndrome, all this stuff, and I focused inward, I finally learned that yes, collaboration with other people and connecting has been one of the most valuable things. And I've even heard someone say recently that everything good happens on the other side of a conversation. And I know that same thing with you and I, Tia, as we've talked offline and had some other interactions, and it's been great. And then, too, going back to the whole idea of recapping on meetings, I've also had a private pilot's license for the last since 9091. So what is that, 35, 36 years? But the whole idea is that one of the biggest things I learned in communication is that when the control tower said to do something, we didn't just say, hey, gotcha, or we'll comply. You know, on a few things we can say that, but for the most part, if they're directing us to a specific runway to land or take off from, we have to say specifically back those things that we are planning on doing, which creates such clear communication. And we add our tail number so they know they're talking to the right airplane to sequence them so there's no situations or accidents. So I totally hear you, whereas I've left many meeting meet many meetings over the last 30 years of that same thing. Everybody, everybody good and clear on what this project should look like. And when you look at everybody's faces, they're like, they look so confident, they're giving you the thumbs up. They're like, I'm like, of course they understand. Why do I need to clarify? But we've had so many times when we get near the end of that project, and this is a long time ago, before we did any much checking in the middle of the process, we wasted so much time, energy, and money that you couldn't get back because the project was completely out of scope from what either the owner or what the main person in charge was thinking. So I appreciate that recap.

SPEAKER_02 25:51

And I think with that comes along, like, again, seeing the holistic picture and the pieces. Another reason why, like, project management, I feel like so born, is the part that you just mentioned of okay, hey, everybody has a goal, and you're like, yep, sounds good, but then there's like no implementation strategy, right? And I think people have a lot of great ideas and grand ideas, and I want them to have great ideas. But at the end of the day, it has to get done. And if we're like, okay, so how are we gonna actually do this great idea or the thing we just left the meeting on? And everyone's like, no idea. It's interesting of providing those like milestones, right? Which I have like not to plug my blueprint, but like is a large part of it. Like, where do we create check-ins? Where do we have like you know, consistent communication across the board in a way that it creates boundaries, though? Because I think we've all had the projects where it's either so micromanaged where you're like, okay, you can't do anything because there's no breathing room, or they're so far off in the distance where you're like, Can I get feedback on this thing? You're like, and then they don't see you to the very end, and it's like, oh, this isn't what I thought. So creating those communications and check-ins. And I know you mentioned being introvert in the case of okay, don't want to create communication. And I will say that there's what I've also learned, have it, especially working with tech and engineers and sort of the traditional, more introverted, I think, industry, is you can create communication in various forms that matches you with where you're at. If you are, you can't not communicate with because otherwise the visibility is not there, transparency not there, and you can be the best, and we talked about this even before we get started, you can be the best engineer in the world. But if people don't see what you're doing, or if you can't like have these conversations, then your value is down. But whether it's be like async communication or hey, I made a document, I outlound pieces, being willing to have that sort of various levels of feedback and growing in these areas are so huge. But it also may be an incremental step, which is why in a lot of my like blog posts and pieces, I talk about change fatigue. So what I've done. Can you explain?

SPEAKER_01 27:54

Yeah, explain it a little more. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:56

Yeah. So as so, as a leader, particularly as a leader, I've either I joined a new company or I have taken over teams, or they're like, hey Tia, now you're responsible for all these groups of people, or even if working with businesses, right? If you go in and if you're like, ah, all right, we're changing this, this, this, this, and this, and like this will be great. And you see the envision, you're like, okay, it's gonna be amazing. People will get wiped out. They'll it will lose it. If you notice, if you try to create too much change at one time, people can't digest it, they don't understand. They're like, I don't even know how to do my basic job anymore. And this is what I call change fatigue. For even if so, as a leader, I'm like so passionate about things. I'm like, I can see where this is going. I can see the like change of processes, or I can see where like we're gonna change our, you know, our services or our products. But if you're like, okay, take away everything you know and implement all this new thing, people time and time again, people are surprised it doesn't work. I was like, because you're there's no grounding force for this. Versus if you strategically introduce change, so whether that be as you as an individual contributor where you're like, okay, I want to improve my communication, don't change who you are, like instantaneously, because that's not gonna work for you, then it's not gonna work for them. But if you're like, okay, I'm gonna implement these small habits to get started, I'm gonna give more project updates, I'm gonna, I'm gonna talk to this one person who I'm really comfortable talking with, practice with them about like how I can give better updates or speeches or connections or ask better questions. And in the same vein as a leader, okay, I see all these things that I want to change or do, but how do I introduce these in small increments so that people understand the value of the change and then get on board with the change? Therefore, they're not disoriented and that like my operations don't slow down completely, which I've I've seen before in many places, and that there might be a slight slowdown, but you also have support. People understand that like adjustments are made. So by the time the year is done or the quarter or we're insert time here, you don't have to force change down people's throats because they understand. You're also able to get input as you made changes. Because maybe I don't know about you, I have made changes as a leader, being like, okay, I've worked for other companies. This really worked for well for my two other companies I worked for. So I'm gonna try to implement it here because it seems like there's a need. And then I'm like, oh my gosh, that didn't work at all, you know. But then I was like, hey, this concept is there, but then how about I adapt it to the people? How about I adapt it to the company? So it's not exactly what I did with other places, but I don't take it as a failure. I'm like, okay, so how do I adapt this? Because we have a need for better project management, but instead of subtasks which really worked well someplace else, they don't think like that. So I'm like, okay, I'm gonna do major, like major tickets, and then I'm gonna add like I'm gonna create more epic level things, or I'm gonna do the details a little bit different. And it works extremely well. But instead of like forcing people down a path of change that doesn't work for them, and some other things really worked well, I'm actually able to tailor it to them and then make the change better for the company and the places. Because as well, as much of a leader, we don't have all the context or the details with it.

SPEAKER_01 31:13

Yeah, yeah. No, that's a great point. I love that idea of adaptability to the company and to the people, because as you said, even if you just as an example of McDonald's, if you look at a McDonald's franchise, they're in different locations, even though their system is all the same, but they have they're different locations, different people, different ways they do a few things or how they operate and interact, that you can't use that as a their framework as a hundred percent this is how we do everything, just because of the people and how the organization handles things. So I like that whole adaptability and flexibility. And plus, as we've been talking this whole time, as you've been sharing and out offline, that people are so different. They come in with different emotions, different energy level, different focus, or how they communicate, whether introverted, extroverted, whatever, and just their frameworks they come in with. And that's really important too. As you said, adept or having too much change can cause the just many issues or cause things to slow down to a stop. And that would be devastating for most companies.

SPEAKER_02 32:21

And how demotivating for people if you're like trying to even you know, operationally we think about that, but that's the time people are like, this isn't gonna work out, or even if they're the most talented people. So people want to be heard, and it's not that you have to do, I think I want to say this doesn't mean you have to do everything that everybody says either, you know, but it's really setting ourselves up for success. I I mentioned that a lot in like various other talks that I do, is really like listening to people and trying to find the best thing that works for the majority of folks, and that you're able like to work and coach in the other areas that might not be the best or adapt as we change. And we won't get it right the first time. As I mentioned before, I've tried things. I'm like, hey, I think this is really gonna work out. And I'm like, okay, or not, but it's not a matter of it's like then you adapt and you listen and you learn versus we have to do it this way because I've been doing this great for 20 years, and you're like, Well, it's not gonna work out, you know.

SPEAKER_01 33:18

So yeah, and that's that's funny because I've been in the workforce for 40 years this year, 2026.

SPEAKER_03 33:24

Oh, congratulations!

SPEAKER_01 33:25

Thank you, thank you. It doesn't feel like I'm 110 years old, but like, holy moly. But I have talked about that many times that before the 1990s, there's this kind of old school mentality of, yeah, the boss makes every decision, there is no collaboration. To now we're in a situation where we've learned collaboration can help so much with innovation, creativity, and as you mentioned, curiosity also. So that's very interesting. And a question I have for you is how do you stay aligned with your faith or conviction when pressure is on?

SPEAKER_02 34:02

My so one of my core values is like we are ultimately at the end of the day, humans serving humans. I think what it doesn't matter again, the industry, the place, the peoples, the businesses, whether what you are at the company. So, with that, for me, it's always keeping the most success for the human beings in mind, which I say this doesn't mean that we don't have challenging conversations. So that for me is sort of my my north star of trying to help people move forward and gather expectations. So, an example I will use is from like a people management perspective side, for me, setting expectations really early, making sure that I'm aligned with my direct reports is for me human serving humans. So, in the case of when I have challenges or they're like, hey, they're not meeting expectations, or you know, we're having to have these relatively like hard conversations, which they are like they are hard to have, right? If you ever have had the pleasure of having them. However, for me, they are that it is an obligation for even when things get hard, we keep this human connection. And that we're like, I want, I'm like, I want you to do so well that I'm having this conversation with you because I don't want you to either you're get frustrated in your role and you're like, oh, why can't why can't I get this promotion? Because I think people avoid them, right? And if things get hard, you avoid talking to people about some of the hard stuff. And you avoid, you're like, okay, I'm just gonna keep comfortable and do the things. But for my conviction of where my faith is at and where my inner dialogue is that I want I am so much invested in the people that I work with as I'm going to have these hard conversations with you. So that if you're even if you were frustrated with me and you leave somewhere else, you might be like, oh wait, Tia was right because I'm invested in you as a human being for these connections. And for me is that if you invest again, you I've seen this time and time again. If you invest in your people, they will support your business in ways that you can't even think of, right? They'll do their jobs better, they'll talk to other people and be like, oh my gosh, I work for such a great place. Then you attract good talent because you have referrals, they have better communications with people internally, so your operations become smoother almost instantly because you're like, hey, I can go to this person because they're useful. Or I think I've worked for places where they're like, oh, Bob is such a nice person, but man, he like can't do his job for the life of him. Yeah, for me, you're like not invested enough to have the conversation with Bob, you know, of and I know it's hard and it's tough to have, but even in those situations or like re-orgs or trying to figure these things out, like how do we best serve our people in a way that is like thriving for them, even if they don't initially see it? Because again, nobody likes hearing sort of like constructive feedback is hard for people, I think, to either hear or deliver. But we owe it to ourselves in these times of hard like hard choices to use that as our North Star. And for me, that that is where that is. So which every conversation that I have, I don't sway away, even if it I don't sway away from this. I was like, is this a good, is this overall a good decision to be had or a good conversation to have, even if it's hard for the sake of the people in the organization and the people themselves.

SPEAKER_01 37:24

Yeah, no, I think that's great. And I know we you and I have talked about it getting me getting feedback that has been difficult to hear, but it's been so valuable in helping me to improve what I do and create the value. So I I totally hear you when it comes to that. And you have to be ready for that. And hopefully most people will have the mindset for that. But I know I didn't for a long period of time. I just wanted to say, hey, I did something since I was so introverted and didn't have good confidence on things, and didn't have the right mindset, in my opinion, to thrive and grow. So I think that's very important. And another question I have for you is have you ever made a tough decision, a bold move where you didn't feel the confidence about it? And what did you learn?

SPEAKER_02 38:11

Yeah, that's a great question. I thought about this a little bit throughout my career. I think one, even whether it is getting invited to like major planning sessions. I think like there's a couple moments in my career for this, like major planning sessions, because you're like, okay. And then when you get invited to those, or even like starting a consulting company, quite frankly, right? And knowing all these things is oh my gosh, I'm not gonna know everything, right? You go to these sessions, you're like, oh, there's we have all these leaders and they have all these like bright ideas, or you know, I might not know the opportunities for pieces. And what I've really come to learn is that one, nobody knows everything, so the playing field is actually level, as much as and you're like, Oh, okay. So don't go wrong, there's like extremely smart people, and they bring, but you always have something to offer people, and and the other piece is your actions speak louder than words. One of the examples I have for this is one of the first major planning sessions I got invited to, where I the company I joined, you talked to the CEO for 15 minutes when you first joined because he wants to meet everybody because that's very common in rapid growth startup vibes, and you're like, okay, oh, I'm like, Michael, this person won't remember me ever. But once I what I did at the organization of leading the people, I went from crafting a team that really didn't execute, like three teams that didn't execute at all. Then I became the manager of them, and it became one team that like blew all the other teams out of the water, right? Like almost instantly. So we cut down the workforce by 75%, was not my choice, but we actually did more than any of those teams combined in years.

SPEAKER_01 39:52

Oh my goodness. Wow.

SPEAKER_02 39:54

And yeah, it was definitely challenging, but again, leading with people trusted me as their leader. And I was like, okay, we have the same scope with way less people, but like here's what we're gonna do. This is how we're gonna prioritize, and this is how we're gonna run our teams. And I want to hear from you like, let's adapt, let's change what works well, what do you want to work on? Like, how do we include our own initiatives in here? And when I got invited to this planning session, I was like, okay, I'm like, these leaders don't know I am. But then each of them, the CEO, was like, hey Tia, how's it going? You know, like it's been amazing what you've been doing, and we couldn't have done it without you, and uh from a person who I didn't think knew who I was to being recognized as a leader there. So I think you more you know more than you think, and you have to and you bring more to it, but also no one knows everything, so we're all in the same boat. Let's work together as a team of human beings to work out a solution that best fits us versus assuming that one person has it all or thinking that we all have it all because we don't.

SPEAKER_01 41:02

Okay, that's a great perspective. And I know I for a long time I never had that type of perspective. Ooh, this person sounds so intelligent, or this person gives so much value, or this person is extroverted, and I'm not. And I used to always just elevate them and then have this fear that, ooh, I don't want to look stupid, I don't want to look dumb, so I'll just kind of shrink back and kind of hide myself. And I've learned to be more adaptable, as you mentioned earlier in the episode, in terms of what I can contribute, and then truly what my value is that I do have something. So I'm so glad you brought that up that we do have value. And nobody knows everything. That's awesome. Yeah. So is there a leadership lesson? And I know there's many out there, but have you had a leadership lesson that you feel uh was pretty important or impactful?

SPEAKER_02 41:51

Also, a great question. I think for for me, I think I know we talked about this actually earlier in the episode, but uh the real leadership lesson that I have is the like shift of the traditional to the modern. And I don't want to sound like a broken record with that, and I promise I have like many leadership ideas when it comes to this part, but and the reason for this is like there needs to be an evolution of your leadership as you become a leader. So we we originally talked about like people staying very stagnant. The reality of it is whether you work for Fortune 500, like the typical things, either you're leading the companies. So I'll give an example of a CEO as a startup, right? So your role of with five people at a startup company is very different for your role as a leader and CEO of a 60, 100, 150, 200, 250 people, 300, 400 plus person. And for me, the biggest lesson of leadership is you, and why it's part of my like adaptive maturity model is that you have to evolve as a leader throughout your whole organ, like throughout your whole leadership lifestyle. And if you don't, it all it hurts you and your business. And I've even had this for myself. It gets uncomfortable, it's and at times it's uncomfortable because you're like, okay, I used to I do this so well. And I'm like, okay, I'm gonna I work with these sides of teams, or and I'm gonna grow, and I'm like, okay, but then I'm like, okay, now I have to like I have to step out of the way for my own team to grow.

unknown 43:25

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 43:26

And I have to evolve up, and then I have to, but I've known so many places that I've worked for, is the companies are stagnant or stuck due to the fact that their leaders do not evolve. They're like, well, when I ran the company with five people, I'm like, you know, that's great for you, Tim, but it's not five people anymore, right? Like that was two years ago when you started, or 10 years ago, or you know, many, many times ago before that. So as a leader, we have to see where we can evolve so the company can evolve and like not be afraid of that.

SPEAKER_03 44:00

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 44:00

And I think we talked about the I think the previous lessons, like we don't know everything, but that's not bad. Like you you get to grow and morph and change. So I think what an honor it is to if you are in the leadership mindset of okay, I have to grow and evolve, and I have to move up so that my team can move up and I can coach them and my company can grow. If you're of this mindset and you have built face, faith and trust in your team, you can move up and be less afraid. I'm not gonna tell you to be not afraid because that we're all gonna feel it. You're less afraid in how you move up and grow because you've built the team that you trust. And if you're afraid to change how you lead because you think everything's gonna fall apart, then that is like you need to reflect on your own evolution and the way that you orchestrate your business and teams that insert things here in order for that to happen.

SPEAKER_01 44:52

Wow. This is this was awesome, Tia. And I I thank you for all your wisdom, your insights, and you dropped a lot of wonderful strategies, a lot of wonderful mindsets and belief systems, just everything. So thank you. Thank you so much for being here today.

SPEAKER_02 45:09

Absolutely. My pleasure. Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_01 45:12

Yes, you're welcome. Let everybody know what's the best way to get in contact with you.

SPEAKER_02 45:18

Yeah, uh, currently LinkedIn, uh TiLongoMilder, also our page at TiLongo Consulting, but also tialongoconsulting.com uh is a great place to check out various blog posts and pieces, as well as my Instagram page at TiLongo Consulting as well.

SPEAKER_01 45:36

Thank you. And I just want to thank you for listening to this episode of Unapologetic Leadership, where Tia shared a lot of things. The first thing I'm gonna say is that AI needs people, and that AI is not perfect. No, and also, too, that developing a great organization takes collaboration, trust, and curiosity, and that we are organizations of people working for people. So thank you again for being here, and I'll see you in the next episode.

SPEAKER_00 46:15

So that's it for today's episode of Unapologetic Leadership. Head on over to wherever you listen to podcasts and subscribe to the show. One lucky listener every single week that posts a review on Apple Podcasts or iTunes will win a chance the grand prize drawing to win a twenty-five thousand dollar private VIP day with Corey Dunham himself. So head on over to Unapologetic Leadership Podcast dot com and pick up a free copy of Corey's gift. And join us on the next episode.