Why Soft Skills Win in Leadership: Science vs Art, with Abbas Alimorad

Will AI replace great leaders?

Not if leadership remains human.

In this episode of Unapologetic Leadership, Cory Dunham sits down with Abbas Alimorad, executive leader, board member, AI and strategy advisor, and project management expert, to explore why the future of leadership isn't about choosing between technology and people. It's about mastering both.

Drawing from more than 20 years of experience leading complex initiatives across higher education, government, and healthcare, Abbas explains why AI excels at processing information, analyzing data, and improving efficiency, but will never replace the human qualities that define exceptional leadership. Empathy, emotional intelligence, communication, trust, resilience, and integrity remain the competitive advantages every leader must develop.

The conversation also explores mentorship, networking, lifelong learning, raising resilient children, overcoming setbacks, and staying grounded in your values when facing pressure. Abbas shares why every challenge is an opportunity to grow and why authentic leadership begins with putting people before performance.

About Abbas Alimorad

A recognized executive leader and keynote speaker, Abbas specializes in transforming project management and organizational performance through intelligence, innovation, and strategic leadership. He is known for advancing organizational growth through evidence-based planning, inclusive change management, operational excellence, and collaborative leadership. Abbas holds a Master of Arts in Leadership from the University of Guelph, a Master of Professional Education in Educational Leadership from Western University, and is a certified Project Management Professional (PMP).

Whether you're leading a team, implementing AI, managing complex projects, or preparing for the future of work, this episode will help you embrace technology without losing the human connection that great leadership requires.

Because technology may transform the way we work.

But it's our humanity that determines how we lead.

Connect with Abbas Alimorad

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/abbasalimorad/
Email: abbas@jhmjconsulting.com

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Welcome to Unapologetic Leadership. If you felt stressed, overwhelmed, wrestling with the imposter syndrome, wondering if you're just not good enough, then this podcast is for you. So here's your host, Corey Dunham.

SPEAKER_01 0:21

Welcome to Unapologetic Leadership. I have Abbas Ali Moran, and he's an executive leader, board member, AI and strategy advisor, and he's doing a lot of great things in the world. So welcome, Abbas.

SPEAKER_04 0:36

Thank you, Corey. Appreciate you having me and looking forward to our conversation. So as indicated, Abbas Ali Moran, I'm an executive, CEO, and founder of two companies, one being here in North America, one being in Europe, both focusing on AI change management, project management. And the AI side of it is more of project management strategy and how do you integrate AI into your day-to-day business. I also do public speaking for PMI and leadership and the soft skill that we all tend to look forward to learning more and more about. Yeah, so I've done presentation around across North America, Washington, Chicago, here in Ottawa, Fort Laurendale, also about project management for the Project Management Institute. And recently I've been focusing more about the AI side of the business and how AI is changing, how it's working. So okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:30

No, that's very fascinating. Can you share the two company names that you started?

SPEAKER_04 1:34

Oh, absolutely. Yeah, sorry. J Consulting, which is in North America, and the one in Europe is Turtenex. It's basically established in Estonia, which covers Europe. Now they're big part, they're all one area. So being from there, so it covers the European market.

SPEAKER_01 1:51

Nice, nice. And you just talked about AI and implementation and all of that, how it's changing. Tell me more about that. What does that mean?

SPEAKER_04 2:00

Well, it's making our life, you know, some people look at it as a negative things. They look at it as it's taking our jobs, you know. Some look at it as a positive thing. The way I look at it, and I tell my students that, you know, as a project manager, as a leader, we go through a lot of documentation. We go through a lot of information, we go through data. I think that's where AI helps us, where it can take all that data, review it for us, and provide us with some feedback. You know, it builds the foundation of what we want to do. So from a project manager, from an executive role, it can actually give you a dashboard of where is the organization going from a strategic point of view, how your projects or initiatives align with your strategy for the organization and the vision and the mission. So it is doing a lot of good things. Now others can look at the flip side of the coin, think about, you know, it's taking our jobs away. And reality, when you look at it, it's the science and the art. The science side of it, we all can learn it. It's you know, the templates, the documentation which we AI can do that for us, but AI can do the art side. It can, it doesn't have the emotion, it doesn't have the feeling that a human being does whenever they're working on an initiative or a project or working with other members of their team.

SPEAKER_01 3:14

I think that's a great point. That's one of the things I talk to executive leaders about too, is become more human-centered. And like you said, some of the soft skills, whether that's listening, emotion, other things that we can't, that just aren't zeros and ones or data side of things. So I appreciate that.

SPEAKER_04 3:33

Exactly. Exactly. Yeah, it makes a difference, you know, the zero and the ones, like you said, zero and one. It doesn't give you the motion. It tells you either yes or no. Where with AI, with a human, this is not based on emotion. This is not based on how we want to deal with the team, you know, conflict. AI is not going to sit there and look at the person's facial expression. Again, if you want to get more advanced, probably, but you know, when you're sitting there and when you're talking to individuals, you're looking at their body language. They can say, yeah, to agree with the statement, however, their body language can say otherwise. And I think this is where we need to be aware that you know, yeah, AI is just like technology, everything advanced. Let's utilize it for our own benefit rather than push it back and think it's going to take over our job, our skill set.

SPEAKER_01 4:24

Yeah. Yeah. And you've been working in project management for over 20 years with universities, organizations, governmental bodies. How have things changed over that period of time when it comes to tech or just maybe some other elements?

SPEAKER_04 4:41

I started my job at then hospital here in London, Ontario, in Canada. And I look back now to when I first started to how it is today. It's day and night. We've come a long way. We've come a long way. Where I remember one of my first projects was actually the PAC system. So for your viewers, that day, you know, when you go to a hospital, you get an X-Sterior and you get that film, and they put it up on the light and they take a look at it. The project that we implemented was actually a system where it's no longer taking the film, it's taking the image, digitally putting in the system, and where physicians can now look at it, which now they can zoom in a lot more. So when you look at how it was done to how it is today, yeah, we can now process a lot more information. We can do a lot more, we can achieve a lot more. So we've come a long way. From a project management leadership side, that too, we've come a long way. You look at hospitals now, everyone implements a project, everything's a project. So project management is becoming the new norm where you have to know it, right? And I'll add to your question. When I first started project management, it was by accident. Any project manager you look you talk to back from again, this is gonna show our age, back from the 2019 90 or so, and they'll tell you I started project management by accident, where today every university, every college, every institute teaches project management. So there seems there's a value to it, right? So we've come a long way to where we used to be with project management and the leadership side of it, too, where we are today.

SPEAKER_01 6:17

Very cool. Yeah. I was just gonna say, just in January, roughly six weeks ago, a month and a half, I had a full right hip replacement. And just the kind that I got was assisted with a robot or a machine that also helped create the accuracy and everything along with the doctor. So I can't even imagine just all the things that go into both project management. And I never thought about that surgery as project management, but there's a lot of pieces that have to go into place, including before I even got the surgery, all the doctor's appointments, all the scans, all the x-rays, all everything that you're saying that can be digitized now and get higher resolution, better accuracy, speed implementation, or implementation that's sped up, however you want to say it. So yeah, that's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_04 7:06

Definitely. One of the other projects in which you mentioned OR, right? We also did an OR upgrade where we changed everything, made more digital, right? The surgery, robotic surgery. I think one of the first ones that started here in London, Ontario on Seastar, where they did a surgery where the patient was in a different continent. So imagine that you're in one continent, the patient is a different continent. Now, being that patient, probably be scared because it's something a robot, or there's no human there that's gonna be jumping in, or there is, but it's again, we've come a long way from where we are, and just the thought of that. And another thing when we look at look at COVID, what did COVID do? COVID accelerated a lot of these things for us, right? Yeah, now patients are getting a kit where they're at home and checks their pulse where the doctor is sitting somewhere else, and they have this monitor in front of them where they can see their pulse, their blood pressure, and they can do a diagnostic not being in the office. So technology has shifted, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_01 8:05

Right, right. Now, how have you stayed aligned with your own values when operating in business? And I think we talked personally offline about your kids and how you also train them moving forward in this world, but how do you stay aligned with your values? Maybe when pressure's on.

SPEAKER_04 8:22

Well, when pressure is on, how do you start with the values being true to yourself? That's how I look at it. And you know, we look at and we talk about each organization. We always talk about you know the politics of our organization and how sometimes it's like survivor, you know, which team you're with, who are you aligned with? I think it's you know, your belief system. You look at your belief system and you look at what values you are, right? Rather being then honest and you know, maybe not get what I want, but you know, I did it the honest way. I'd rather do it that way than trying to hurt someone along the way or step on someone just for me to move somewhere else. So I think it's more about the belief system. I look at my kids as well, too. I integrate that into them is you know, be good with people around you, respect the people around you, you know, help out the people around you because we were all in one point in our life needed help. Yes, like we were all needed help. Whether we started our job, whether we moved to a different country, different city, whether some situation what we were knew we needed that. And I recall myself when I started at LHSC, and that's the hospital here. Uh, I had a great mentor, and his name is Joel. Until this day, I'm in touch with him, right? Learn from him. So I want to bring that back. I want to put that forward, right? So again, the values we look at. I think you know, we uh you hear about the religion, whatnot. I think the value we look at, we're all humans, right? We're all humans, we want to take care of it, we should be helping out each other, we should be respecting each other. So that's how I look at it. I don't believe in you know hurting someone along the way just so I can move up to the corporate ladder. I don't believe in that. If it means that it's gonna take me a couple of extra years to get what I want to get, then by all means, I'm okay with that.

SPEAKER_01 10:08

Yeah. So I'm hearing a couple things. I'm hearing it's important to have community and we share in that community and uplift others. And that if something's worth doing, it's worth doing it the right way instead of just checking a box. Yeah. I really enjoyed just your mentoring aspect of reaching back to that next generation and seeing when they're using tech and maybe they're not using it in a way. I call it, I bring to my kids and family some old school before we hit the internet, and some new school, which is kind of the digital stuff, but looking people in the eye when you communicate, holding doors open for everyone, men and women, and also to just having the practice of interfacing with people face to face, whether it's through Zoom or whatever, but having conversations. And one of the biggest things that I've noticed with my kids, because they have now been working several years in a restaurant, a German restaurant just happens to be, that they've been interfacing with people from 15 years old to 85 years old and learning how to navigate those different conversations and things. But do you think the next generation is using tech in a way that's not as helpful, or are they going off in a direction that may not be the best? Or do you think everything's moving?

SPEAKER_04 11:28

I think it's our duty to help them. And what do I mean by that? You're absolutely right. You know, when you look at it, sometimes I feel they're not using it for the proper reasons. I look at my kids, and they're one of the ones that don't use or use it to gaming or whatnot. My son, he's now 16, until this day, he'll ask me if he can play a game. And I'm like, sure, you only have half an hour or you have an hour. But I think in the same time, we need to help them and sell into them that you know, you have the technology, you have the means, use it for the right reason, learn. Everything's information, right? Now, if you go back, if I ask you a question when you were in high school, when you went to library, how easy was it to find a book? Right? Yeah, to go through the key card, find the card, look at what section it is, where, and you go look for it. Where today, information is right in front of them, and I think it's our job to teach them and to show them what they need to do. And yes, it's being used for the wrong reasons, but it's our duty to help them and guide them in the right direction and show them what they can do. Like I talk to my kids a lot about this kind of stuff, and I tell them, you know, you have things that we didn't have. Now I'm gonna sound an old broken record with them because you can see in the reaction, okay, we're hearing this again, one more time, right? But it's true, they have things that we didn't have, right? I wish we had the internet wherein we were growing, or we have some kind of bulletin board where we could have sell them bought stuff where you know we could have been an entrepreneur at an early age, where today they have that. They can learn a new activity or they can a new thing where just going online. So I go back again, I go back, it's our duty as parents and as human beings as well to teach them to use it for the right reason.

SPEAKER_01 13:17

Yeah, yeah, and that's one of the things, just how much information, like talk about it's more than information overload. And then it's like handing, you know, putting a two-year-old behind the wheel of a car and say, okay, go ahead and do whatever you got to do. And they're of course have no clue, they'll figure out something, but there's just too much coming at them. So I appreciate both as you're saying, personally and professionally, that there's some mentoring going on and connecting the intergenerational, if you will, whether that's at the university or that's at home. So I love those values.

SPEAKER_04 13:51

Yeah, no, definitely. Yeah, it's our duty. I think that's where the key is. It's us we need to make sure we look after them. We need to make sure we see what they're doing and help them go in the right path. So, yes, definitely.

SPEAKER_01 14:03

Yeah, no, I think that's great. And now for you, you know, moving forward into the future, what are some exciting things happening for you, or what are you most focused on right now?

SPEAKER_04 14:12

I'm learning to take a step back, and I think that's hard for me. And what I mean by that, I usually take on more initiative or a couple of different initiatives at the same time. And I think as you we get older, I'll use the word older, we tend to realize, you know, maybe one or two is better than five or six, right? Different tasks. And that one or two can we can master it rather than have five or six and we're all over the place, right? And also helps us mentally, physically to really focus. For me, I think just continue doing what I'm doing. Like I love sharing my personal experience with whomever listens, right? And I appreciate you having me on this podcast as well, too, because again, I like to share the experience and I look at the next generation, especially the students, and I look at my students, right? Take everything that I've learned and make sure they learn from it. One of the biggest things you can ask my students, they'll tell you is I always talk about networking, networking, networking, go out there, networking. I wish I were that. If I can go back to my 20-year-old, I can do a lot of different things, right? But again, it was different timing, but that's one of them. Continue to grow with my company and continue to do the work I'm doing. And looking at writing a book was supposed to be done in this spring, but they were due to some circumstances, I had to get pushed out a little bit. But those are my key goals right now. And again, of course, one of my biggest things is you know, focus on the family, just spend more time with the family and have that time with them because I remember bringing my daughter home, and now she's 18 years old, she's gonna be 19 in a couple of months, and she's already driving, she's in university, so those times fine. And I think you would probably agree with me. One thing that we will never get back is time. So, you know, utilize it to the best of our ability, to the best of our knowledge, and utilize it to make a difference, and you know, especially with the loved ones, spend time with them.

SPEAKER_01 15:56

So yeah, yeah, no, I kind of, if I say, messed up on that when I was younger too in my family. I've been married 26 years and have three young adult kids, and all three of them are in college. But I didn't, I was like, oh no, it's all about making money and paying the bills and focus, focus, focus. And then I don't remember some of the times of my middle son, who's now gonna be 22 this year, when he was young, I was like, when did he start making sentences even with his words? Like you said, it seems like you blink, and all of a sudden they're in their teens and beyond. But I like how you're talking about just having boundaries and I'm not aging. You might be getting older. I'm turning more wise. I'm getting wisdom. I'm just kidding. But as you get older, you do realize it's not about all the hustle and bustle all the time. It is about setting those boundaries based and that are aligned with your values. Because if we don't set those, once again, just like the internet, data, everything else, there's gonna be so much stuff going on, you're gonna be hitting a thousand different things superficially rather than the couple or a few important things in a deep fashion that's meaningful.

SPEAKER_04 17:04

Absolutely. And you know, I've heard this quote, and you're right. In the past, we thought about hustling, bustling, you know, right? We won't make the money that, but now when we look back, it doesn't matter how much we make, we want to make more and more. Yes, regardless, we want to make more and more. It never stops, it's never ending, right? And I heard this quote which was very interesting, and it was you can have a hundred problem or a thousand problem or a thousand things on your mind, but once you have a health issue, that's your number one priority.

SPEAKER_02 17:33

That's right.

SPEAKER_04 17:34

That is I can tell you in the summer I went through that that episode with my health, and it was a heart. And believe me, lying down there on bed and looking around, yeah. The only thing that I was thinking about were my kids. Okay, and I was looking at their picture. That tells you that nothing in this world really matters except the people you love and the people you care about, right? Yeah, everything else is secondary, and I think that's as human as we're younger and we're growing, we think about, like you said, hustle and bustle. And then I agree with you. I think I spend more time, you know, in my office. You know, when my daughter comes to me on a Friday night and says, Do you have a conference call tonight? Or are you gonna sit and watch a movie? That hits hard. And a daughter that's only five years old or six years old, like that, okay, if they're in that age and they're saying that to you, what are they seeing? They're seeing me constantly in front behind the computer or constantly on a call. So I think once we get to an age, we start realizing, you know, it's actually no, it's about the family, and I rather spend time, you know. Of course, you we're gonna do work, we're gonna do all that stuff, but I think that there's time and place for everything. And one thing I've learned I want to spend more time with my kids tonight. I'm actually in a couple of hours, I'm taking my daughter, she's snowboarding, and I just go with them, stand there, watch her, take my other little one as well, too. Let him goof around, do whatever he wants to do, terrorize everyone, right? And I own my other daughter, she goes playing, but it's those moments that you stand there and you look at them and you're proud that that's my achievement. They're happy, like and that means the world. So, yeah, you know, again, we go back to saying our 20-year-old selves, but we can't always say that. But you know, it's interesting how the older generation used to tell us this, and that no, no, that's not me. That's not me, right? But yet no, we're doing the same thing.

SPEAKER_01 19:23

Yes, it's so funny, yeah, how life is just a cycle, it's very cyclical in many different ways. But I think one of the cool parts is I had a question after this, too. One of the cool parts is that even though we may have these challenges, those are some of the areas where the deepest convictions happen in our lives, whereas or where we can actually expand the reach of that message in an important way. And it's repetitive, as you say, because if it I've heard people say that if something's important, it bears repeating. Because once again, we're in an age of distraction. But I was gonna ask you just my question was in terms of your health issues, which I'm very sorry to hear that, but I'm so thankful you're moving forward and aligned and you appreciate those relationships, especially with those you love. So I'm glad you said that. But the question is do you feel that a lot of our lessons have to be learned that way? Or are there some people who are willing to listen, some young people who are willing to listen? And have you seen that maybe when you've taught some other younger people or that next generation? Have you seen them kind of take a hold of this or repeat it back to you at least? Because that's my daughter is get rid of my daughter and my two sons. My daughter remembers stuff. So even though it seems like she's not listening, she's not doing what I asked, she's not going in the direction. You know, she's a great, all the kids are great. But sometimes when you're kind of guiding them, they're like, they're not even listening. But then she repeats it back later to me and tells me the lesson of I'm like, holy moly, she listened. So now I know I just have to say it, even though I feel like she may not be listening. But yeah, what do you feel about that next generation and learning before they have to go through some challenges?

SPEAKER_04 21:01

You know, unfortunately, we're humans, right? And what I mean by that is sometimes it takes an event for us to learn, right? And I think even we can speak to ourselves, we've seen things our parents probably struggle in some situation, but we didn't learn from it. That's the unfortunate part, and that's why I mean unfortunately, we're human. I'll give you an example. I make it a habit with my kids to make them go either jogging, go for a walk, go exercise, take an hour of a day for yourself, just an hour, right? Go for a walk, do something, relax, right? Because now I look back after my incident, I look back, I'm like, I wish in my younger age days, I used to every day for an hour just go for a walk. And that one hour walk is not just meant physically walk, but mentally calm down and brings you down and start meditating, right? Yeah, but it's like I feel like sometimes I'm pushing them to do that. And I figured, you know, after you See your dad going through something, he would probably do it. But it's no, it's like you have to push them more and more. And I think it's the unfortunate part. And again, I go back to being human. Sometimes we have to go through it in order for us to really see it. Now, you and I, as a parent, we can tell our kids as much as we can, we can tell them based on our experience. But if they don't go, I don't want to use this and say if they don't go through it, they won't learn. Yeah, it's a different generation. I don't think I think they're untouchable. They think they're just like we thought we were untouchable. Yeah, it's human being, it's human nature, it's something that they go through. Like my son, he snowboards a lot, which is great. And I kind of pushed him toward it because I'm like, hey, it's winter. Winter do something, right? My daughter did it for a while, and I remember that, and that that's the point of pushing. And she came down the hill and she fell. And I get up, go back up, right? She went up again, she came back, she fell again, and she started crying. Oh, I can't do this. I'm hurt. I go, Where are you? She's just so meaning I'm hurting my leg, whatever. I'm like, Joanna, turn around, go back up there, and you're coming down again. She's going to meet. I'm like, you're doing it again. And she's crying. I'm like, you are giving yourself a reason not to do it. That's what she's doing, right? And she looked at me and she goes, No, I'm like, I'm telling you, you're giving yourself a reason. So I pushed her back up. Now one can say, okay, you're being tough, but I'm like kind of taking my own personal experience, right? I pushed her back up. She came down Corey a couple of times from there.

SPEAKER_02 23:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 23:38

Now you go ask her. She loves it, and she's out there every winter snowboarding with her friends. I'm like, really? And you don't want to do it, right? So what I'm trying to say is they have to go through some of this situation. You and I, as a parent, and I'll use our kids, we can tell them as much as we want, we can push them as much as you want. But sometimes, unfortunately, they have to go through it. But I think from our lesson, we try to guide them to that direction so they would better their life than what we had.

SPEAKER_01 24:06

Yeah. Yes. Yeah, and it's the same thing when all of us as kids or babies we're learning to walk. Most parents don't catch their kids and oh, get up, get up. The kids have to learn to give back up. And having that attitude and mindset. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 24:22

Yeah. And I use that in some of my talks, right? And as adults, we tend to, when we come to roadblocks, we stop. And I use that same exact example you just gave, right? I'm like, why is it when you were a kid, you fell, you got up, tried again. You fell, you got up, tried again. You fell, you got up, tried again, and today you're walking fine. But why is it today as an adult, once we fall, we don't attempt again. We feel like, oh no, I don't want to do this anymore. I want to go to something next. So great point. I like how you brought that up because I think it's important to recognize that we all fell one time in our life. We all fell as a kid, as as teenagers, as you know, adults, we all had encountered some kind of situation where we fell, but we got out. But today I think we don't do that as much as often when we did when we're younger.

SPEAKER_01 25:16

Yeah. Yeah. And it was more, and I think of you know, when little kids, they have a goal and dream. They can't many times express it, but they know what they want or they see something, whether it's their learning to walk, or they see a toy or a dog, and they want to get to it. So they're not thinking about all the challenges, they're just thinking about how can I get to that thing. And so focusing on your vision and willing to have those learning experiences, which I know for a couple decades when I was younger, like growing up, and I realize this is from elementary school. I never wanted to look dumb, never wanted to look stupid. I didn't want to get made fun of by my friends. So I learned that. So when I went to Eastern Michigan University back, I don't know if it's 30 years ago now, back in the late 80s, early 90s, I failed a calculus class because I didn't want to raise my hand, ask for help, or get any guidance. I retook that calculus. I did the exact same thing, got the same D plus and failed that class. And I'm like, that is the dumbest thing. So that's one of the things I tell my kids. It's like, don't be dumb like your dad was back then. He's not dumb anymore. But don't worry about what everybody else thinks, or take away that opportunity for that learning experience by having, if you call it a failure, or really it's just a maybe a failed attempt, but it doesn't make you a failure. That's not a part of your identity, but it allows you to learn when you have some of these things you're not so certain about, and you can learn from them.

SPEAKER_04 26:42

Exactly. Can I take that point a little bit further? Sure. My university days, I was taking computer science 26, 27 B. 27B. So it was the second semester, it was the advanced. And I think it was computer science or math. It was one of the courses, and it was a little bit hard. So I saw a friend, I'm like, hey, did you take this course? Like, yeah, how was it? Oh, it's tough. I'm like, okay, yeah, it is tough because I know it's tough. I saw another friend or someone else. I'm like, hey, how was did you take this course? Yeah, how was it? Oh, it's easy.

unknown 27:19

Easy.

SPEAKER_04 27:20

Yeah. Another person's tough. And my lesson from that, and I tell my kids, I go, do things that you want to do, but at the same time, do not listen to others because everybody has a different situation. You may have a different attitude toward it. Another person may have a different attitude. You go ask people how it is, you're gonna take the answer you want to know. You want to believe. You want to believe it's hard, you're gonna believe it's hard. But you want to believe it's easy, you're gonna believe it's easy. So to your point, it's more of we look at where we want to go to, and you write our visions, but unfortunately, we look at the roadblocks to that vision rather than I am different than someone else. Another person may have issues getting there and may have roadblocks, but I may not have that. I may be more perceptive getting there, right? So I think as adults, we all have visions, we all have where we want to go to, but unfortunately, rather than just looking at the end result, we look at them in between, and that's where we kind of scare ourselves. Again, I use the word scare because we uh stop from going forward with it, right? Yeah, yet you don't take that risk. I had a friend who was talking about a program he wanted to take, and I told him, Yeah, told him about it, but I'm not gonna say two-year program. Oh, it's too long, whatever. I go, it's two years, man. It's gonna go by fast. Yeah, right. Three years later, I saw him. I'm like, what are you doing? Oh, I'm trying to figure out what I'm doing. I'm like, Do you remember that conversation we had? He goes, Yeah, I go spend three years. He goes, Yeah. I go, you would have been done last year. He looked at me and goes, You're right. Wow. We talked about complaining about two years. It's three years, and yet you still haven't finished anything or done anything. But you could have done it. Why let these small things stop you from what you want to do? Why let these small road again? I'm gonna say roadblock, but they're not stop because we look at oh, it's scary, it's this or that. It's not, it's go for what you want to do. This is your goal, this is your dream, do it. You're gonna fall? You're gonna fall. What are you gonna? What's the best thing? You're gonna learn from it.

SPEAKER_01 29:28

Yeah, yeah, which ultimately moves you in the right direction of learning and not allowing, as you're saying, not allowing failures or challenges to stop us. They may slow us down, they may be yield signs, but they're just speed bumps, they're not stop signs.

SPEAKER_04 29:44

And you nailed it, yes, they may slow us down, but they're not a stop sign. Slow us down, what a couple of hours, a couple of days, a couple of months, ultimately we're gonna get what we're gonna get, right? So I think that's the key.

SPEAKER_01 29:57

Yeah. And I think, yeah, just everything you've talked about are stepping stones or a framework or a success pattern of life. You move forward, you learn and grow. But if we stay in that thing that we're so confident in, which is as a baby, in the baby's terms, we're comfortable with crawling. Oh, let's just stay there because man, I don't want to bump my head or fall. But as we move forward, we don't have to make great leaps or achieve great things. It's not about achieving, as I've heard it said many times, that success is not a destination, but success is a journey. Exactly. And that's what I'm hearing you tell me. It's a learning experience, it's a framework. And when you stay in that mindset, that you won't really lose from being in that framework. You'll always learn something if that's what your mindset is.

SPEAKER_04 30:45

Exactly. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 30:47

Yeah. So I think that's great. And in terms of, oh, were you gonna say something? I'm sorry. No, no, no, no, go ahead. In terms of project management, do some of these concepts also apply in terms of learning experiences in project management, or is that mostly digital systems we're talking about, or is it the human element also?

SPEAKER_04 31:06

It's always a learning experience. Every project is different, every initiative is different, every project we're leading with different people. So you're constantly learning from the previous project. One of the things that we do in project management is when we're done, we meet with a team and with a client and whomever we're involved, and we do a quick lesson learn. What worked well? And we don't say what didn't work, where can we improve, right? And we take that and then to apply it to the next project. So it's constantly learning experience, right? It's constantly, and if one says, Oh, I'm done learning, then I think they need to stop and find another thing because every project is different, it has a start date, it has an end date, it's temporary. Yep, and every project has a different team. So now you're dealing with a whole different set of individuals that you dealt in the last project, right? And what's the you know, you go through the forming, norming, storming, and then adjourning, right? So it's the same concept. So project management, it teaches you not just, like I said, the skill set of the science side, but it really makes the art side very strong. Now, one thing that I love about project management, you can take that profession because you're learning so much from the leadership side, from the conflict management, from communication, you know, that actually it can help you a good stepping stone to a leadership role as C executive or a director role, right? So that's how I look at it. So, yeah, no, it's you're constantly each project you go through, it's always different. Like you can have the same project, which isn't now an upgrade, right? And it's gonna be a whole different project for you.

SPEAKER_01 32:43

Yep, yeah. But no, I love the lessons in that and how that can take you in so many different areas or so many different ways. So that's fantastic. Well, thank you, Abos, for sharing. I don't know if you had anything else that you'd like to share before we No, I just want to say thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_04 32:59

This is a great conversation. I really enjoyed this, and I hope that uh you know your audience of viewers got something from this, but no, thank you for having me, Corey.

SPEAKER_01 33:07

Yeah, yeah, they will get something from this because I found it very awesome and learned a few things about project management that I didn't think about. Just that whole side of soft skills and leadership and it taking you in different directions. So I really appreciate you taking the time to just share both your personal side and your professional side. And I really appreciate it. So thank you.

SPEAKER_04 33:27

Thank you. Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_01 33:29

Yeah, now what's the best way people can connect with you?

SPEAKER_04 33:32

Definitely you can contact me through LinkedIn. So Abbas Ali Murad and R.

SPEAKER_01 33:37

And if you can spell that, please, if you don't mind. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 33:39

Yeah, but first name, A-B-B-A-S. So I always uh tell individuals abba and then add it add an S at the end of it. So Abbas, right? So uh and then the last name Ali Murad A L I M O R A D. Or if you want, you can email me at uh Abbas A B B A S at J H M J Consulting. So John Mary Henry John Consulting.com. Yeah. Awesome. I love it.

SPEAKER_01 34:05

Yeah, thank you. I love that because I'm uh I also have a private pilot's license and we do all phonetic spelling out. I love it. No, that's great. That's great. So awesome. Yeah. Well, I just want to thank you for listening to this episode of Unapologetic Leadership, where we learn that we're all humans. There's human nature in everything. So we've got these elements where we're not exact in everything we do. Also, having values is going to keep your boundaries very clear and to realize what's most important in life. And where Abbas talked about it's our relationships, it's the people you love. And also to remember that project management is such an interdisciplinary thing. I can't even think of the word for it, but it's a place where you can learn so much in terms of communication. You can learn the tech side, the digital side, and you can learn the human side or the art side of things. So thank you again, Abbas, and I hope to see everyone in the next episode of Unapologetic Leadership.

SPEAKER_04 35:09

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 35:13

So that's it for today's episode of Unapologetic Leadership. Head on over to wherever you listen to podcasts and subscribe to the show. One lucky listener every single week that posts a review on Apple Podcasts or iTunes will win a chance the grand prize drawing to win a twenty-five thousand dollar private VIP day with Corey Dunham himself. So head on over to Upologetic Leadership Podcast dot com and pick up a free copy of Corey's gift. And join us on the next episode.