How Customer Success Leaders Gain Visibility and Get Promoted, with Beverly Hathorn

Why do talented leaders sometimes get stuck while others continue moving up?

In this episode of Unapologetic Leadership, Cori Dunham sits down with customer success leadership consultant Beverly Hathorn to uncover what it really takes to gain visibility, increase your impact, and prepare yourself for the next level.

Beverly shares why simply doing your job well isn’t always enough to advance. If you want to become a director, start thinking, acting, and leading like one before the title arrives. She also explores the importance of personal development, creating psychologically safe teams, developing others, and replacing a scarcity mindset with an abundance mindset.

Her advice is simple: Stay ready so you don’t have to get ready. When opportunity arrives, make sure you’re already prepared to step into it.

About Beverly Hathorn

Beverly Hathorn partners with Customer Success Managers and leaders who are ready to move from reactive firefighting to confident, strategic leadership, where their work is visible, their voice carries weight, and their next step becomes clear.

Connect with Bev

Website: https://www.beverlyhathornconsulting.com/
Email: beverly@beverlyhathornconsulting.com
Phone: 770-367-9914 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Welcome to Unapologetic Leadership. If you felt stressed, overwhelmed, wrestling with the imposter syndrome, wondering if you're just not good enough, then this podcast is for you. So here's your host, Corey Dunham.

SPEAKER_02 0:22

Welcome to this episode of Unapologetic Leadership, where I have Beverly Hathorne, who is a customer success leadership consultant. She helps customer success leaders move from firefighting to strategic influence. Welcome, Bev.

SPEAKER_01 0:39

Thank you so much, Corey. I'm very happy to be here. Excited to talk to you today.

SPEAKER_02 0:44

Excellent, excellent. I'm excited too. So, yeah, tell us what do you do and how do you serve the world?

SPEAKER_01 0:50

Okay, well, that's a really great question. As you mentioned, I am a customer success leadership consultant slash coach, and I work with customer success leaders and directors and managers to kind of help them get out of the firefighting, help them get out of all that responsive activity so that they can actually perform at a higher level and hopefully gain more visibility, maybe move on to their next level in their career, or just better lead their teams.

SPEAKER_02 1:22

That's awesome. I think that's wonderful. Because I feel no matter where we're at in the process, whether we've been in a career or doing a certain thing for decades, like I've done, I've been in my career in terms of marketing and in terms of some leadership consulting. However, we all can improve where we're at. And then many times there's different things that end up coming up that people need to learn. Ooh, somehow either I'm reacting differently, or I've heard of culture, and people these days are not the same as they were even 10 years ago.

SPEAKER_01 1:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:56

Yeah, yeah. Five years ago, maybe. But everybody's in a different position. But yeah, just everything's constantly changing. So I really love the idea of continual or constant improvement.

SPEAKER_01 2:08

Yes, yes. And that's what I work towards with my clients.

SPEAKER_02 2:12

Yeah. So tell me about your background because when we talked offline, I think you've had a career that spans quite a bit. So you have quite a bit of experience.

SPEAKER_01 2:21

Yes, I do, Corey. I've been around for a bit, but basically, my background is primarily in the customer service, customer success arena. I've been in that area for well over 25 years. I've been doing this type of work. Everything from a desk representative, answering calls, helping customers, all the way to a director level where I was leading a team, leading an actual center. So, yes. So I've kind of grown up in that arena and seen lots of changes, lots of experiences, lots of opportunity to lead and coach various personalities and levels. So I think that's probably the best part of my experience.

SPEAKER_02 3:12

That's really cool. And did you, I don't know how a better way to say this, did you learn some hard lessons? And you know, why are you still in this area of you know leadership, communication, HR, all of this? Did you learn any hard lessons, or is it just through, hey, I've learned a lot of things that you'd love to tweak and change and help people to grow in?

SPEAKER_01 3:31

Well, there's both. I've learned some lessons that are burned into my soul.

SPEAKER_02 3:37

Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_01 3:38

I've learned some really hard lessons, and most of those, as you might guess, was in the beginning. But I've also learned about myself that coaching and helping people perform at their best is kind of a natural intuitive part of my personality. And so that's one of the reasons that I enjoy it so much. It's pretty much like, you know, when people say, if you do what you like, you'll never work a day in your life. So, yeah, so I pretty much do what I like, which is why I started my consulting and coaching business after retirement, because I wanted to continue to try to show up for people and to help people and to help them grow and elevate.

SPEAKER_02 4:25

Yeah, no, I think that's great. And you touched on a thing, something that I think is a wonderful area, which is having purpose and impact or a mission that has both of those. Because many times many of us want to work because we want to pay our bills, do some nice things in life, be able to have a nice place to live and maybe travel and take care of our family. However, a lot of people, if they have that as their end goal of just making enough money to get by or do some nice things, a lot of times that gets old. And if you don't have the purpose or impact or vision for something greater and how you continue to contribute to yourself while growing, that there's a lot of meaning missing from all of that. So the fact that you're saying you're still doing this and helping others, creating this ripple effect, helping others after retirement, I think that's often that's awesome. Not often. It's awesome, it's awesome. So yeah, so kudos to you for continuing on developing people, because there's no shortage of once again, culture and people shifting and changing, and we're shifting into a society where there's been less face-to-face, there's been less communication and more of this one-way thing, which I don't want to call communication because it doesn't really show that both sides understand each other, both sides are working together to a common aim. And if we're not being human beings and we're not interacting with each other, and then having patience and really trying to engage with someone else, it can be very difficult. So no, I appreciate you doing that. And I was gonna ask you, what else has been maybe uh recent things that you've seen in the industry or some of the biggest challenges you're finding, either with HR professionals or leaders as they move forward in the customer success area?

SPEAKER_01 6:23

Yes, yes. Thank you for that question. Because one of the biggest things that I'm seeing now is where people are landing positions and then excelling in those positions and not moving forward. And one of the reasons is we tend to get comfortable where when we know what we're doing, when we're the subject matter expert, I A I E S M, you know, when we know what we're doing, when we're good at what we do, then we just kind of sit there in that. But what we need to do is start looking at the next level. We need to start looking at the next level, how we can take what we've learned and move on to the next level. And many customer success leaders that I talk to are stuck right there. They want to move to the next level, but they don't know how. And they say things like, I'm doing everything I'm supposed to do. You know, I'm engaged, I'm attentive, I'm leading my team, um, you know, well, that's your job. But what you've got to do, if you've got to gain that visibility, and one of the ways that you can do that to help propel you forward is to show your impact and how it impacts or affects the organization or the company. So, you know, if you're leading your team and your team is hitting those metrics and goals and all that's great. That is amazing, you know, that is not to be shoved aside. But when you're a leader, you're expected to lead at a higher level. You're expected to perform at a higher level. And when you start doing that, you'll get the attention of the people who make those decisions about where you will go next and you know what opportunities will be present for you. So I talk a lot about visibility to my clients and how they can gain that visibility and how they can show their impact and how they can show it to in the right situations to the right people that matter. And the people that matter are, of course, the customer, your team, and your organization. So it's like a three-way prong that you need to impact.

SPEAKER_02 8:43

Yeah, I was gonna say, I think that's great that you mentioned that. And a lot of times, a lot of people look at those entities or those areas as different. However, I found that when you look at anybody you interact with as a customer is a good thing, meaning we should always have embodied certain characteristics and skill sets that basically say, I'm not the only one in this engagement here. If I have a customer, what is the impact they're looking for? What's the outcome? What are the challenges they're having? It's the same thing. Yep, the same thing with your colleagues. Okay, what impact are they looking for? What's gonna help them move forward, or the piece of information I give them, or somehow collaborative efforts that are gonna impact their position, what they're trying to achieve. And the same thing with our bosses or the leaders above us and the C-suite or whatever it is. But once again, what are they looking for? You know, sure, sure, we got the goals and everything, but if you have this embodied, like you're saying, the whole idea of what is the other person being in their shoes, what are they looking for, is so important. So I think that's a great thing to look at. And the other area that I I was thinking of as you were speaking is that you had mentioned it's like, man, I've done everything I could do, and I'm doing it 100-110% doing great in accomplishing the goals of my organization or what our team has decided. And is that the only thing they need to look at, or should they be more, you know, should they personally develop on their own? Should they figure out some other assets that improve them in what they do and them as a person, and not just look at what the organization say? Because I've heard people who have done that too, and I've done a long time ago that you try to impress, okay, I've done everything they've asked, but is there maybe more that we need to do, or maybe a different shift as to the perspective? Hey, I'm I think there's a book a long time ago called You Inc., basically you incorporated. So you are your own business, you're your own brand, and as you were saying, you have to create the visibility. So do you feel people need to consider other things outside of what just the organization is, and for them to be more assertive in what they choose to pursue?

SPEAKER_01 11:06

I absolutely do, and I agree with you, Inc., because at your desk or in your office or wherever you spend most of your time, that's actually your business. You are actually running your own business at that point, and you should address it as such, it's just that important. So the things that you excel at, learn to grow those even more, but share those because one of my perspectives of leadership is that I want to grow other leaders. You know, I don't want to just keep all this to myself. I want to grow other leaders, and I want to see my team excel and go on to the next step. If you leave me or when you leave me, I want you to leave me better than when you came to me. So, but back to what you were saying, yeah, you definitely want to find opportunities for your own growth and personal development. And another thing that I like to talk to my clients about is you know, the old adage, dress for success or dress for where you want to go or whatever. So I feel like that is actually a mindset. If you want to be a director and you're a customer success manager, start acting like a director. Start acting like a director, start moving like a director, start thinking like a director, be strategic about the steps that you take and the actions that you take. So that when that don't wait until you're promoted to director to start being a director. Start acting like a director so that someone will look at you and say, you know, she acts like a director. Let's, you know, she moves like a director. Let's, you know, think about this. So that's some of the advice that and some of the methods that I use to coach my clients. Let's start being that. Envision that for yourself. Start practicing that mentality and that way of thinking and those strategies to help you get there so that when it does come, you're already ready.

SPEAKER_02 13:10

Yeah, yes, yes. Yeah. I've heard a couple things came out of that for me. Is one of the things that's I've heard in terms of me learning to speak and do a better job at keynote speaking and all types of things. And one of the things that was talked about is just if you're always prepared, when the opportunity comes, you're ready to go, exactly as you said. You know, always be prepared. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:34

You know, that goes back to my childhood. My grandmother always says, Stay ready so you don't have to get ready. It's easier to keep up than it is to catch up. Those were two things that she sent us out into the world with, you know. So, but she always says, Stay ready so you don't have to get ready. Yeah, she always told us that.

SPEAKER_02 13:52

Yeah, well, that's awesome. That's amazing. And and going back to another piece of that too, is that when you talked about if you want to be a director, do the things that directors do. Directors do. Yeah, and I had an example uh five years ago, actually, when I was on a board, I was just assisting one of the board members, but then they were looking for a new president. And this is around 2019, 2020, I think 2019 exactly, that I was doing exactly what you were doing or like suggesting, which is be ready and start acting the part. And so I started showing up early because I was typically late, and I started helping and learned a strategy of because I'm typically an introvert. And I think you had talked about too when we met first that you're have introverted characteristics too at times, correct? Yeah. So since I was an introvert, I didn't want to talk to anybody, but I said I want to get out there and do more extroverted or do more things that, as you say, create visibility for me, but also too to help me become a better leader so I can contribute more, create a bigger impact. So I started showing up early and I started welcoming people at the door, even though I wasn't really in leadership there. At least I didn't feel like it. But I started welcoming people, directing people. I'm doing all kinds of things, helping them. Hey, can I help anywhere? Can I do this or that? So I became so helpful, so visible, and so welcoming in many different ways that somebody said, Oh my gosh, Corey, you by everything they're doing, they noticed me and gave me a compliment and say, Wow, Corey, all the things you're doing and the way you're behaving, you could be the next president of this association of our nonprofit business group. And I was like, that took me by surprise because I wasn't expecting it. But people are watching. People are watching. And even if they're not watching, you ideally, I don't feel you should do things just to make people watch, yeah, watch you or see you, but do them out of the right intention for both growth, expansion, and serving others. Right. Out of that, you'll get visible, but also two, you're doing it for the right reason, and we're not just relying on, oh, are they gonna give me what I want? Well, people have choices. They can choose to give, they can choose to take away. However, if you develop that and you internalize those strategies, those characteristics, those mindsets and actions, like you're saying, then that's gonna make a huge difference in you moving forward and you creating the opportunities instead of always waiting for an opportunity.

SPEAKER_01 16:24

That's right. Instead of always waiting on somebody to tap you on the shoulder because that tap may never come, you know. And you said something that I wanted to kind of expound on. You said people are watching, you know, not only is the C-suite watching you and your next level, your team is watching you, and not only does your team watch you, but in many cases they'll imitate you. So when they start to see you exhibit growth and stretch towards development, someone, maybe not your entire team, but you're gonna impact somebody on that team, and they're going to start to mimic that mentality. They're gonna start to look at that and say, Oh, yeah, okay, you know what? You know, I would like to be a part of that team, or I would like to be on that council, or I want to be on that advisory board, or you know, and then when you do all of that, it might sound like a lot, you know, because some people still work under the that's not my job mentality.

SPEAKER_02 17:30

You know, man. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:33

So, you know, it might sound like a lot, but let me just give you this to think about. The worst that's gonna happen when you stretch yourself and start to grow and develop, the worst that's gonna happen is that you'll get better. That's the worst thing that's gonna happen is that you'll get better. So, you know, if you don't get the promotion or if you don't get the, you know, maybe you should look externally or whatever. But the worst thing that's gonna happen is that you'll have more under your belt. You'll have more knowledge, you'll have more ability, you'll grow your skills, you'll grow your communication skills, you'll grow your leadership skills. So that's you know, that's the worst that could happen.

SPEAKER_02 18:12

Yeah, and all the stuff you're talking about is like, oh my gosh, I've been through this myself. Try to point the finger at everybody else for my success and my woes, but guess what? If I'm putting the power in other people's hands or other circumstances' hands, that's the worst thing we can do. And we all have agency and control and autonomy to some degree. So one of the biggest things, I had a few things I could say about that, but the one thing I'll say is that, like you're saying, the worst thing that could happen is you can grow, you can elevate, you can improve what you're doing. Because the worst thing, if you do look externally, oh, I'm gonna get another job, I'm gonna create a new opportunity. The worst thing you could do by getting another opportunity is that if you have not grown yourself, you're gonna take yourself everywhere. Wherever you go. Yeah, yeah. And it's the worst thing when you're like, come on, I'm finding the same problems everywhere I go.

SPEAKER_01 19:09

That's right.

SPEAKER_02 19:10

Only common denominator is you, pretty much, in many cases. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:14

Yeah, yeah. Wherever you go, there you are. Yeah, it's just that simple, you know.

SPEAKER_02 19:19

It's very simple, but it's hard to take when you're like seriously.

SPEAKER_01 19:23

There you are. So, you know, I've had in my leadership coaching, I credit some of my, and this might sound a little weird, but I credit some of my less empathetic and productive leaders that I've had in my career. I've had some leaders who have taught me how not to lead. You know, I've had some leaders who've shown me what not to do, and I've even been in organizations. Well, at least one, I won't put it make it plural, but I was in one organization where, as upbeat and excited and outgoing as I was in that organization, it was so culturally mismanaged that even I shrunk like I don't know, a cheap shirt washed in the hot water. I just literally shrunk to where it's just a funny phrase.

SPEAKER_02 20:26

It's not funny what you had to go through, but just a phrase. I've never heard that phrase.

SPEAKER_01 20:31

Yes, I shrunk. So the same way you can encourage, elevate, build up, and grow people, you can actually take them down. You can actually minimize them to a point where their abilities and skills are not even prominent or accessible to them, even. You know. So I take all of that in when I'm talking to my leaders. And, you know, my clients and I, we talk about the culture that they work within. You know, we talk about how they're impacted by that culture. I had a leader who I went to once and I said, Hey, I found some great training. You know, we had an LMS, we had a learning management system in the company that had all sorts of training opportunities, you know. So I said, Hey, I found some great training, you know, that will help me, you know, go to the next level. And this leader looked at me and said, You have time to do training? And I was like, Well, yeah, that's part of development, you know. I'm confused at this point. Why are you even asking me that? Because I was expecting, well, that's great, Bev. I'm so glad you sought that out and you found something. Yeah. How much time do you need? Do you need like 30 minutes a day, or what? You know, what are you gonna do? I was expecting her to jump right in with me. Instead, I was met with a brick wall. So I found other training to do after work on my own time and gain the knowledge that I needed. But that organization's culture was just, they just weren't a learning organization. They just weren't, they were task driven, they were numbers driven, and it was all about hidden these numbers. That's it. We don't really look for the personal development. So, needless to say, I found my way out of there. But that is something that, you know, taught me how important it is to invest in your people. Because when you don't, your people will become disengaged. And here's the catch your engaged people will find other opportunities. Your disengaged people will stay right there with you.

SPEAKER_02 22:52

Oh, that's like the worst scenario.

SPEAKER_01 22:56

Your engaged people are gonna find their way out of there. You know, when your culture is not a good fit when you're not developing and growing and helping your people. Your disengaged people, they're going to, here's another one for you. They're gonna do their eight and hit the gate. And that's all you're gonna get out of them. You're not gonna get any innovation, you're not gonna get any creativity, you know. You're just gonna get them there, disengaged, forever and ever and ever with you.

SPEAKER_02 23:24

Yeah. So yeah, which then means you're attracting more of those types to stick around longer. And once again, it's a kind of a losing battle. Because if you're not innovating and growing and serving more, creating more impact, other companies are moving forward. So even though you may feel like you're staying the same, you're moving backwards, and especially if you're losing some of that top talent.

SPEAKER_01 23:47

Talent, that's right, because that top talent wants to be, you know, everybody wants to play with the kids with the cool toys. You know, that top talent wants to go where there's innovation and there's the newest systems and the latest products, and everybody's growing and everybody's developing. That's where your high-performing, engaged individuals want to be, and they will find that, you know, they will find that, and and you'll lose them.

SPEAKER_02 24:14

Yep. Yeah. No, that's huge. That is huge. And I find also, too, that it's not it's innovation, it's people having personal growth and also giving and making them feel like they're of value. So one of the things I had to learn since I've been in the career force for 40 years now, since the late 80s, it used to be a different aspect of how the boss tells everybody what to do. There's no discussion back in the day. So now there's a little more collaboration, there's more conversation, there's more communication, and also in general, more investing into the people, into the organization. Because if they're not happy, not just with the learning and growing more, but if they're not happy with the way they're being treated as human beings, if they don't feel respected, and if they don't have opportunities to be promoted, and not everybody wants to be promoted, there's some people in that camp, but most people I feel want to feel like they're creating an impact and not just wasting their eight, like you said, and then hitting the gate. And so if you're not treating them as human beings and valuable, like I've had to learn to do over decades, that now I talk to most of the people I hire and let them know that, hey, listen, sure, I'm hiring you, and you might look at me as your boss, but don't think of me that way. If you're around me, that means you're in my environment. We are collaborating, and I do not want you to be the weakest link. And I don't want to be the weakest link either, because many times it's the leaders who become the weakest link in the whole team aspect. So I think that's important. How do you feel about that in terms of showing the people you work with, whether they're underneath you or colleagues or your superiors, but just making them feel like they're valuable, they're heard, and they're seen. What are your thoughts on that?

SPEAKER_01 26:10

I think a psychologically safe environment is critical. I think it's critical because you vetted these people, you hired them, you brought them into your company, let them perform at the level that you were first attracted to. You were first attracted to something. So let that shine, grow that, nurture that. You know, it's sort of like I'm what people call a plant mom. I've got plants inside the house, and I've got my garden outside, my flower garden, and I love to grow things and I love to attend to them and make sure that they have what they need. And people come sometime, they say, Oh my god, how do you do all of this? And I'm like, it's kind of my nature, but I enjoy the success of it. So enjoy the success of your people, enjoy watching them grow, watching them develop. You know, two years from now, you can say, you know, I remember when Bev didn't even have whatever, but now she's, you know, so you should get some sort of fulfillment out of that, out of giving that to your people. Because after all, you brought them to your company. You didn't just bring them to sit behind a desk and give them a salary and they give you eight hours work. You brought them to help you. It's a two-way exchange. We're team. I'm gonna grow you, you're gonna grow me, we're gonna grow together, you know. So I definitely think that you need to provide that sort of environment and that sort of culture. And when people need watering, water them, you know. When they need more sun, put them by the window, you know. When they need more fertilizer, more nitrogen, give it to them, you know. When they, you know, grow your people.

SPEAKER_02 28:00

Yeah. I think I think that's important. And the other the idea that sparked up with me, and then I have one more question for you after this. But the thing that sparked in me is that I have fought, didn't realize it at first, but I had a scarcity mindset. So, and I've heard this from other people in corporate and some business leaders that talk about, ooh, but if I help them out, they might advance beyond me, and there's limitations either in the positions that may open up, and I might just shoot myself in the foot because I've pretty much they're saying I've got scarcity mindset, and I've dealt with this so I can see it so clearly. And it still hits me once in a while. Ooh, am I competing with them? Or wait a minute, I have to get back to abundance mindset of hey, there's enough business in the world. Yes, and there's some people you may let's say you do have competitors either in your in staffing or it may be business-to-business competitors. But if you think about not everyone wants to work with everyone, there are specific features and ways people do things, or just the human touch. Well, I like this organization because I feel like I'm family there, they care about me, they want to help me, and I just feel different, no different than doctors in olden days, where some doctors, you know, they could do their thing, they're the best. But if their bedside manners and how they treated you as a human being was terrible, people are like, no, I'd rather go to a lower quality doctor who's got the degree, and they're gonna treat me like a human being, more so than going to this top-notch doctor. And some people would choose that just because they feel more comfortable in a safe environment, like you said.

SPEAKER_01 29:36

Yes, yes. You know, and to your point, some people think that, yeah, well, if I help them, then they're going to surpass me. That's still a win. That's still a win for you. That is still a win for you, and I can almost promise you that in most cases that person will always remember you for that, you know. But that's still a win for you, you know, to help what it's human nature almost to enjoy helping somebody up, you know. It's not, I don't think, even though maybe personalities are not this way, but I don't think the human nature is to put your foot on somebody and to keep them down. I think the human nature is for us all to join in together to rise. I think that's now personalities might be that, but that's a different thing than human nature, you know. So, but yeah, there there are some people that operate in that scarcity mindset, and they might not realize that that mindset is keeping them down as well, because not only are you not gravitating towards helping someone, but you're putting a block up towards someone maybe helping you because of that mental position that you've put yourself in, that helping that you shouldn't want to help because that may get the person further. Well, you might be projecting that. You might be projecting that. So, you know, with thoughts of things, thoughts of things.

SPEAKER_02 31:10

Yes, big time, big time. Yeah, and it's uh yeah, it's one of the far-reaching things. Sometimes you don't have the vision that's out long-term enough to realize if I help somebody, I actually can put that as a quiver or as a quiver, as an arrow in my quiver or a skill set that, hey, I've elevated all these people I can get and help foster the best in people. Yeah, that's amazing. If you can do that, you create some powerful organizations, powerful teamwork, all kinds of things, along with when you elevate somebody, like you said, somebody down the road, and most people will remember who's helped them to get them where they are. Most people will do that. And there could be a collaborative thing that happens down the road where maybe you're doing business together, maybe they're referring to you because you've treated them so well. So many times we don't have the vision out far enough to see how can this work in my favor if we're just thinking scarcely minded and just about myself elevating. But yeah, that can create even more multiplication and more compounding by you helping someone else. So it's it's amazing. And like I feel most human beings are pretty decent, have good memories, and are respectful. There's some that just want to take, take, take, but you can't base yourself on that, otherwise, you're holding your own self back. Self back. That's right.

SPEAKER_01 32:30

Yeah, yeah, that's that's exactly right. I've got, like I said, I have some leaders who have taught me how not to leave, but I've had some amazing leaders who invested in me, who believed in me, who saw something in me even before I saw it in myself. I had one leader who gave me a huge project, and I was like, Me, what, me? And she's like, You can do it. But here's what she gave me. If you fall, I'll be there to catch you and we'll work it out. That's what she gave me that made me just run on with it, you know, because now I didn't fear failing. You know, I didn't fear that, you know. She gave me, well, I should say, maybe she gave me the space to make mistakes. She gave me that and let me know that there's nothing I can do that can break this thing, that you know, we can't fix it. And I'm right here with you. You go ahead. I think you can do it, you know. And as you might guess, I stumbled and bumbled, but eventually I stood upright in that. And man, you know.

SPEAKER_02 33:36

I no, I think that's fantastic because I growing up, I never wanted to fail. So I'm oh, I feel so uncomfortable, I don't want to fail, look stupid, then it put me into a bad habit space of not trying anything new or different that I wasn't comfortable with, but that's where all the learning is when things are challenging, and that's right, you have a safe environment of people who are willing to bolster you up and help empower and encourage you. We all need that.

SPEAKER_01 34:01

That's right. We all need that, you know. Why not go out on a limb? That's where the fruit is.

SPEAKER_02 34:07

Ooh, so many great sayings, so many great things.

SPEAKER_01 34:10

Yeah, these, yeah, these are part of what has got me where I am. But basically, they're a part of my childhood, you know, things that my grandmother would say to us that we were like, what the heck does that mean? You know, we didn't know what it meant, you know. But after living, it became clear, but she had already embedd those things in us. So after living a little while, it became clear. But yeah, you have to stretch, you know, comfort is where your dreams go to die. You have to stretch, you gotta, you know, pull yourself up. And you know, the first time you rode a bike, you know, you didn't know how to do it, and you probably fell, you know, a couple of times, but eventually it became second nature, you know. So yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:55

No, that's fantastic. That's fantastic. So, one last question for you how do you stay aligned with your values? Because sometimes things get tough out there, it's not just a bunch of roses out there, but how do you stay aligned with your values when things are difficult or you keep facing setbacks?

SPEAKER_01 35:12

Well, that's a really interesting question because my values are my values, you know, they're what uh has come of my life to this point, you know. So, again, to use the word embed, they're embedded in me. So there's no, I am who I'm gonna be. That person, there's no really changing me at this point in my life. I've lived enough years, we don't need to know I'm anybody. I've lived enough years and had enough experiences that I'm solidified in who I am. So, and because I practice my values so often, they're part of my everyday life. Because I'm yeah, because I practice them so I get opportunity after opportunity to practice my values and my beliefs and in both my coaching business and my personal life. So it's just who I am.

SPEAKER_02 36:06

So yeah, I love that. And I love how you mentioned both the professional side of things and your personal life because that's you, as you said. It is you, those values, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:16

That's great. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 36:18

Well, good, good. Thank you so much for everything. And uh let everybody know what is the best way to stay connected with you.

SPEAKER_01 36:25

Well, there's a couple of ways. I try to make it as easy as I can. You can find me on LinkedIn at Everly Hathorne, and it's spelled H-A-T-H-O-R-N. No W, no E, just Hathorne, sort of like hat and horn put together. So you can find me on LinkedIn. You can also catch a glimpse of me at my website, which is Beverly Hathorne Consulting.com. There's always an email, which is Beverly at Beverly Hathorne Consulting.com. And if you forget all that or you didn't write that down, you can always pick up the phone and call me 770-367-9914. We can have an old-fashioned conversation.

SPEAKER_02 37:07

Awesome. I love all that. Yeah, so thank you so much for being here. I really appreciate it, Bev.

SPEAKER_01 37:11

Yeah, thank you so much for having me. It was very nice chatting with you. I enjoyed this.

SPEAKER_02 37:16

Yes, I enjoyed it too. And I want to thank you for listening to this episode of Unapologetic Leadership, where Bev talked about so many great things and she had a lot of great sayings that help us to remind of what is the main purpose and focus. So it's important to make sure you are personally developing, even if your organization does not allow you to do that, or maybe they don't have the budgeting or the time allocated. But you remember it's you incorporated. You are the CEO, as she said, when you're sitting at the desk and it's you making the choices and decisions. And having an abundance mindset. Realize that even if you help someone else to elevate or to grow or get promoted, even if that takes your position you were looking for, realize that you have, you know, that's gonna come back to you, one way, shape, or form. That's gonna come back as you are empowering other people. And if that's who you are, those are your values, that's a way better way to go by empowering people than just to hold back and step on them. As Bev shared, that is not the way to do things. And remember that staying ahead or being ahead is way better than catching up. So always be prepared in what you're doing. And remember, too, that anybody in our organizations, whether we're a part of that organization in terms of the leadership levels, or if you're a part of being a colleague with someone else, that you don't want your next or the person next to you, your colleague, just getting by and doing eight and then hitting the gate. You want to remember that everybody in your environment is either inspiring you or you're inspiring them in some direction. And let's hope that's in a positive, productive direction. And then most importantly, we are all individuals, we have human nature, but remember it's what kind of impact are you creating for your clients, for your colleagues, or for your leadership. And really, they're all in the same. And the way I look at it, that they're all your clients. So look from their shoes and figure out what challenges are they trying to solve, and not how can I be a part of the problem or hold people back, but how can I be a part of the solution. So thank you again for listening, and we'll see you in the next episode.

SPEAKER_00 39:40

So that's it for today's episode of Unapologetic Leadership. Head on over to wherever you listen to podcasts and subscribe to the show. One lucky listener every single week that posts a review on Apple Podcasts or iTunes will enchant the grand prize drawing to win a twenty-five thousand dollar private VIP day with Corey Dunham himself. So head on over to Unapologetic Leadership Podcast dot com and pick up a free copy of Corey's gift and join us on the next episode.