The Grief Journey (Heartbreak, Healing & Humor) with Steve Gamlin

In this episode of Father's Refuge, host James Moffitt speaks with Steve Gamlin about his journey through grief after losing his wife, Tina. They discuss the complexities of grief, the importance of vulnerability, and the need for support during difficult times. Steve shares his personal experiences, including the challenges of navigating relationships after loss and the significance of celebrating memories. The conversation emphasizes the importance of being real with emotions, the role of kindness in healing, and the ongoing process of living with grief.

Want to be a Guest on Father's Refuge Podcast?

https://podmatch.com/hostdetailpreview/fathersrefuge

Losing a child to cancer is a grief no parent should walk through alone. The Father's Refuge Podcast is a safe place for fathers and parents to share, heal, and find hope in the midst of heartbreak. If you are a father and you would like to share your grief journey with others reach out to me at FathersRefuge@proton.me 

Transcript

James Moffitt (00:01.592)
Hello and welcome to Father's Refuge podcast. My name is James Moffat and I'll be your host. I want to welcome Steve Gamlin, a man who's turned pain into purpose and a vision into action. Together we will explore the raw journey of fatherhood, being a husband, grief and healing with unimaginable loss. Steve's blend of humor and hope offers a lifeline to dads walking through the darkest valleys. If you ever felt alone in your grief, this episode is for you.

Steve, how are you doing,

Steve Gamlin (00:32.875)
I'm doing fine, James. Thank you so much for inviting me. I'm looking forward to our conversation.

James Moffitt (00:34.701)
Yeah.

Absolutely. do me a favor and introduce yourself to the listening audience.

Steve Gamlin (00:42.039)
sure thing. My name is Steve Gamlin. am currently 57 years old, live up in a little tiny town in Southern New Hampshire called Ware, New Hampshire. And I have enjoyed in my life being a radio DJ, a standup comedian, an author, an owner of a DJ company for 28 and a half years, and also a speaker for the past 20. And every single part of it has been impacted by people that I've loved, people that I have lost in my life.

and every little swing of a hammer dents me in a new direction and here we are.

James Moffitt (01:18.702)
Thank you. that's, that's pretty amazing. so father's refuge is a podcast that, focuses on, fathers who have lost children to cancer or to some childhood disease, whether they're walking through the treatment journey now or have walked through that and, and, maybe they've lost her child, you know, to cancer or whatever. And so we're, we're looking at.

providing hope and a little ray of sunshine to dads and fathers, husbands. While you may not have lost a child to cancer, shared with me that you lost your wife. And so you've certainly experienced the heartache of grief and gone through the grief stages and all of that. And so I want to give you an opportunity to kind of share that story with the listening audience.

Steve Gamlin (02:15.723)
Yeah, gosh, my wife Tina and I were a fairy tale brought to life. We actually went to high school together, graduated in June of 1986, and didn't see or speak to each other for 21 more years. We both went off, had our lives, we each got married and divorced. And early 2000s, I crashed my radio career, my first marriage in any shred of financial stability, and I said, I'm gonna take a couple of years and just work on myself to be the best version of me that I can be.

because I only wanted to fall in love one more time. And in early June of 07, I wrote down in my journal, hey, I am ready to fall in love. And she showed up about 10 days later in an email from 1,350 miles away. And a month later, after only texting, phone calls, and some emails, she revealed she'd had a crush on me in high school too. And we fell in love.

James Moffitt (02:59.266)
Hmm.

Steve Gamlin (03:10.955)
We got to be head over heels in love for 17 and a half years. And last December, while we were traveling, we traveled from New Hampshire over to London. And unfortunately, a day after we arrived, she passed away unexpectedly. And 3,000 miles from home, shattered physically and spiritually, shaking.

James Moffitt (03:27.986)
no.

Steve Gamlin (03:37.58)
that started my grief journey. it's, they say it takes, I forget how many stages there are to grief, but my gosh, some days they all show up at once. Some of them loop back around and sneak up on you. And I wouldn't wish, much like your viewers and listeners, gosh, I wouldn't wish my journey on anyone else, and I'm willing to bet many of them would say the same thing.

James Moffitt (03:40.621)
Hmm.

James Moffitt (03:48.984)
Right.

James Moffitt (04:04.246)
Right. Well, I'm sorry for your loss. What, I mean, what happened? Did she have a stroke or?

Steve Gamlin (04:06.529)
Thank you.

She had ischemic heart disease. We did not realize that it was as bad as it was. There were signs, but she kept it hidden pretty well because she didn't want to be a burden on anyone else. And she kept it kind of quiet. But looking back hindsight being 20, 20, there were signs and she was also going through menopause. She was 56 years old for about two years and it really did a number on her. It had a lot of physical and even emotional.

James Moffitt (04:27.416)
Yeah.

Steve Gamlin (04:40.115)
impact on her and she was struggling but she maintained a strong presence and a smile and she didn't let on how bad things were and then all of a sudden she was gone.

James Moffitt (04:51.886)
man. I can't imagine. My wife and I have been married for 35 years going on 36. And I really can't imagine living without her. Katie. I call her Katie Bug.

Steve Gamlin (04:59.287)
Congratulations.

Steve Gamlin (05:06.326)
Yep.

James Moffitt (05:08.536)
So what surprised you most about your own grieving process?

Steve Gamlin (05:14.295)
how long you remain numb and you think you're feeling, think you're grieving, but you're actually just almost like the pause button is on and everything just slows down around you. And I don't think your soul is actually doing anything at that moment other than just sitting there in shock because looking back now, and I'm very grateful that I kept a journal and was writing.

almost from the day that Tina passed, just to talk myself through it. And when I look back now, the first two months, I wasn't actually feeling anything. It was just shock. And I, all of a sudden, I had to all of a sudden be the organized one, which normally that was Tina. We made so many decisions together that she was the one who kept track of everything.

And so in addition to feeling the loss, all of a sudden I had to find out where everything was and dig through and look for things and identify things and reach out to more people than I've ever reached out to in my life for a little bit of help and guidance and wisdom and knowledge and support. So it was very overwhelming for the first couple of months. And I can't even imagine somebody going through a cancer journey, a health journey, all of the information you have to suddenly take in.

when all you want to do is be there to support the person you love the most. So it's very overwhelming.

James Moffitt (06:48.76)
Yes. So I just looked up the stages of grief. I don't have them all memorized. denial, this can't be happening. A defense mechanism to buffer the initial shock, that's normal. Anger, frustration and helplessness often manifest as rage or resentment. Bargaining, if only thoughts trying to reverse or delay the loss. Depression, deep sadness, withdrawal and reflection.

and acceptance coming to terms with the reality of the loss. So I think one of the things I've shared before is that as we were walking through the treatment journey, which lasted 14 months, I kind of envisioned our journey as we were standing on a beach and there was a terrible thunderstorm in the distance and it was headed for us.

And as each day went by, it got closer and closer. So that's kind of how I encapsulated or, or, or, that was the image in my head that I had, that kind of told me what was going on or that's how I, I framed it or whatever. So.

Steve Gamlin (08:09.367)
Hmm. Yeah, for me, gosh, I don't know if there's a particular order they all come in, but my gosh, it was like you threw all of them in a blender. And depending on who I may have spoken to, again, being 3,000 miles from home, my only connection was our phone, and I racked up almost 2,000 minutes of phone plans while I was there for nearly two and a half weeks. And for me, I've dealt with depression on and off my entire life.

At the very low points of my life, it's something I fall back into. And I knew within two days that this is not something that I could just go through alone. And I used to always call it cocooning. Let me just pull back and just cocoon for a bit and I'll come out the other side. This is the first time in my life I knew something was so horrifically bad as in heavy as a loss that I had no idea how to deal with it. That even from England, I was Googling

grief support groups near my hometown here in New Hampshire. Within two or three days of losing Tina and I just, the woman said, why do you feel you need to be part of a grief support group or counseling? Is it because my normal tendency is to cocoon on things, but unfortunately I know already in this situation, there's not gonna be a beautiful butterfly at the end of this cocoon. It's gonna be a tarp full of sludge because I'm not gonna make this one.

it's not gonna be helpful for me to be alone on this one because I can't see myself progressing through all of this in the ways that I've dealt with things in the past.

James Moffitt (09:45.079)
Right. Well, I think that, I guess it depends on how old you are, but you know, was a child of the seventies and eighties and in that era, men were taught that men don't cry and that you pull yourself up by your bootstraps and you make, make of life what you make of life and that nobody cares. you know, just, you're just told to suppress all your emotions and put on a happy face and, and

Do your dead level best to be the provider and husband and father and entrepreneur or whatever, know, whatever your career path was to be the best that you can be. And it was all up to you. And as, as time has gone on, we've, we've learned about emotional maturity, you know, emotional, what's it called? Intelligence, emotional intelligence.

Steve Gamlin (10:42.161)
Mmm. Yes.

James Moffitt (10:43.47)
And that's something that men, think guys don't really, are not in tune with that as the women are, right? I think women are more in tune with their emotions and how to process them and all of that. And so when dads or fathers or husbands are thrown into this grief washing cycle, we're looking around going, wow.

Steve Gamlin (10:54.199)
Hmm.

James Moffitt (11:12.962)
I don't know what to do with this or a lot of times, a lot of times as you know, the denial stage, know, guys are like, yeah, this is not happening. I'm just gonna, I'm just going to go about my day as if it's normal and, just suppress all those emotions and not deal with it. Right. Which is probably the worst thing you can do. But anyway, so as a man, did you feel pressure to stay strong or hide your emotions? How did you navigate that?

Steve Gamlin (11:14.679)
Mmm.

Steve Gamlin (11:31.959)
Absolutely. Yeah.

Steve Gamlin (11:41.214)
no, I'm a guy who, Tina used to joke, because we have three anniversaries, or we had three anniversaries. June was the email, July was when we said we loved each other, and August of that year is when we finally saw each other the first time. Every year I would give her cards on all three of those days, and she used to look at me and roll her eyes and say, you realize you're the chick in this relationship, right? Because very open and honest and authentic and vulnerable, as was she.

with my emotions. I decided years ago, look, I'm not gonna be that guy with the stone-faced, everything's fine and I'll just work through it. No, no, no. I discovered that that's just not my natural wiring. And when I tried to be that way, it hurt me even more along the way. So, no, I've lived fully, openly, emotionally authentic and vulnerable on and off social media. Social media has been wonderful for that for me because...

I've shared this journey over the past nine months. So openly, if I'm having a rough day, here's what's going on. And none of the solid facade like the old ways. my gosh. I mean, I was born at 68. So I'm right there with you in the, in the seventies and eighties, you know, when our dads just told us, you know, rub some dirt on it and walk it off. You know, if you got hit by a baseball or something. but no, I'm, I'm in here's why. First off, it helps me to heal when I've just,

James Moffitt (12:58.807)
Right.

Steve Gamlin (13:07.179)
get all the poison out and deal with it and do something productive with it. But I also get to help other people who are fresh in their grief, who might be a few steps behind me, who can just kind of watch my journey and say, hey, you know, this resonates for me or that resonates for me or a question I got this morning on a post. How'd you know I needed that today? Here's my response. Well, I woke up and I needed it. So I wrote it and I'm very honored that it resonated for

James Moffitt (13:38.04)
What would you say to fathers or husbands who feel they must grieve silently for the sake of their family?

Steve Gamlin (13:46.998)
I'm no expert on grief. I'm just going through it myself. But here's what I suggest to people. Be real. Because while you may think you need to be strong for them, they may need to see that you're authentically feeling and dealing with all of this. it's so, hey guys, it's okay to cry. It's okay to fall apart. What's not okay to do is to tune everybody else out and not let them get, feel your heart and your soul.

especially in a relationship and especially going through a very difficult time. It's good to be the solid rock for your family, but my suggestion, my two cents, be a little vulnerable. If you're struggling, it's okay to reach out to somebody and just say, hey, I'm struggling today. There's no shame in that game. Not at all. I was part of a grief, a group grief counseling sessions.

one-on-one sessions that Tina's company was so generous to provide for me if I needed them. And also speaking with somebody at BetterHelp, which has been a great way to help me to sort out what I'm feeling because I've got a lot of frayed wires in there that are arcing and sparking. I don't always know how to fix them. And if you do it wrong, you burn down your house.

James Moffitt (15:03.149)
Right.

James Moffitt (15:07.214)
I We lost Jessica in August 5th 2001 and One of the things that I recognized pretty quickly as we were going through the grief journey or the You know the treatment journey for 14 months at MUSC Children's Hospital There was not a lot of support for fathers There were support groups that we went to during the treatment journey

And that was, you know, for parents that were walking through that. And that was great. But after she passed away, you know, we just kind of went through a transition period of no longer going to those support group meetings because obviously parents with children that are still alive don't want to hear about parents that have lost their child, you know, because that's always in the back of your mind, you know, because you're hoping and praying that your child will survive.

anyway, so on the other side of that, there was not a lot of support and, I think back then, our church that we went to, they didn't really know how to handle it. So they just kind of didn't say anything, you know, and, they didn't talk about it unless I, we brought it up. so anyway, that's where father's refuge was born in my head, you know, way back when, because I recognize the need.

you know, for fathers to get the support that they need as they walk through the grief process. And, uh, so I had no support. didn't, I didn't really have therapy or any of the things you're talking about. didn't, I didn't have those things. And, uh, so I guess I just kind of, you know, rolled through it, you know, and, just dealt with it in my own way, which, was probably the wrong way to do it, but I didn't know any.

I didn't know any better. You know, I didn't know anything differently. So now I'm glad that, you know, 24 years later, I can provide this, podcast as a source of hope and,

James Moffitt (17:22.88)
reference material for dads, husbands, fathers that desperately need it.

Steve Gamlin (17:33.014)
Yeah. And you know, you're doing it in such a way that you've, you've walked the journey and you and I both see people out there that have never actually gone through it. They may know intellectually the stages, the steps, the, this, the, that, what the serve, you know, what the research says and all of that. But you get to authentically walk this journey with a microphone and really in a way, a flashlight to just kind of shine some light into the darkness where somebody may not go and read a clinically written book.

but they will come and listen to your story and the stories of your guests who are going through things because that's real. I prefer the real. I don't read textbooks on things. I seek out people who have lived it and there's actually, I've got a little old antique chalkboard here in my recording studio and I used to get asked by people, Steve, you do coaching and I said, well I do. Well who certified you? Are you part of the International Coaching Federation? Are you part of this? Are you part of that? No.

What qualifies you to do it? So one day after somebody asked me, this is probably the 10th time I was asked, I grabbed that chalkboard and I wrote the words, this guy lived it. And I drew an arrow and I put the arrow pointing at my face and took a selfie and I sent it to them. That's what qualifies me. This show is what qualifies you. We have been there. I didn't want to add loss of a spouse and a grief journey to my speaking topics, but

James Moffitt (18:53.58)
Right. Right.

Steve Gamlin (19:01.609)
here we are because it would be for me it would be shameful if I didn't share this journey if I just closed you know closed the door and just kind of sat here in the darkness and the silence alone and didn't make an effort to help people who are going through exactly what I'm going through I've been I'm blessed with family who've had my back not everybody is

James Moffitt (19:28.44)
So, grief after losing a spouse and grief after losing a child are different. Both are deeply personal. What helped you feel seen and understood in your grief?

Steve Gamlin (19:39.714)
Continuing to share the best of my moments with Tina. One thing that continues to resonate for me, and it still happens once every couple of weeks, I always refer to her as my Tina. Since we first fell in love, it's me and my Tina. And I get people that reach out still and say, you know, my day was always better when you talked about your Tina.

in the way you said it. So the journey for me, I know she's still close by. She's, she makes it very obvious that she is nearby. So many different signs of things that I would never even imagine were possible without her being close to me. But it's picking up the best of my memories, the best of the emotions, the special days, recognizing when I'm doing something here in our home, because I still live in our home.

boy, Tina would have loved that. Or, you know, we always made dinner together. Or this special thing, you know, she would never let me near the washer and dryer because she felt that was her task and I did all the outside work. And when I first had to do laundry, I'm looking at all the buttons going, you couldn't let me have a test run, could you? I'm just making sure there's nothing bright red in with a bunch of whites that's gonna wreck it.

It's just, it's reliving all my favorite moments and just, and I talk to her every morning and every night. I've got a couple of shelves set up to honor her, my favorite pictures of her and of us. Her wish was to be cremated, so I've got a small keepsake urn that I hold to my heart every morning and every night. And I talk to her as though she's still here and I look at her into the couch and I say, babe, you weren't supposed to leave me, you're supposed to be sitting right there.

James Moffitt (21:31.478)
You have a, you have a picture over.

Steve Gamlin (21:33.975)
I do not in my hand right now actually I do if I if you want me to grab it and hold it up to the camera I will sure

James Moffitt (21:38.744)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Steve Gamlin (21:48.578)
forgot I've got most of them upstairs but I will hold this one up to the camera so that you can see that was my Tina yeah yeah she was stunningly naturally beautiful inside and out and and that's something that I treasure because she was she was never a person who believed she was as beautiful as I knew her to be and it was it was a wonderful quality about her that I love to

James Moffitt (21:54.607)
Yeah, there you go. how cool. Yeah. That's awesome.

James Moffitt (22:06.252)
wonderful.

Steve Gamlin (22:18.145)
to let her know every day she was beautiful and that I loved her and she had her little eye rolling sarcastic answers to everything which just made me laugh and I still laugh when I say it because I can still hear the conversations we would have on a regular basis.

James Moffitt (22:36.376)
How did your relationships shift family, friends, community after your loss?

Steve Gamlin (22:44.767)
Well, let's just say I've got to be careful what I say, but...

For the most part, extremely supportive. Yeah, nope. Some true colors have been shown and seen and realized and recognized, unfortunately. But for the most part, yeah, I've got an amazing family who adored Tina and they...

James Moffitt (22:54.008)
Yeah, no specifics.

Steve Gamlin (23:17.089)
They've been there. My sister dropped everything five days after Tina passed away and we were over in London. She lives down in Texas. She dropped everything she was doing. She got her company to allow her to work remotely for a month and she flew 4,000 miles to just be there to support me. Five days after Tina passed, yeah.

James Moffitt (23:36.502)
Wow, that's awesome.

James Moffitt (23:41.519)
So I want to talk about relationships, friendships in general. And I'm a baby boomer. So my frame of reference is probably considered somewhat conservative, old fashioned, you know, what have you. And so with the advent of social media, Facebook, Snapchat, know, AOL, CompuServe, MySpace, Facebook.

you know, all these different social media portals. And we have Facebook friends, right? Well, I kind of laugh at that because, yeah, I have 600 and some odd Facebook friends, but they're really not friends. They're more like acquaintances, people that I know of. I might not even really know them. I just, they're a friend of a friend, or we have football in common, or we have second amendment in common, or family.

men in common or there's something there's some thread there that we have in common that that creates a connection that we have and we're facebook friends you know and that's fine and i'm not trying to belittle that other than to say that my definition of friendship is a little runs a little deeper than a casual connection on social media right and so one of the things i noticed

early on in my adulthood was that

There's a lot of fair weather friends. There's a lot of friends that they're there when everything's going good. You know, you're, you're available. You go party with them. You drink beer with them. You watch football together. You eat, you know, you're there during holidays, blah, blah, blah, but lose your job and have an inability to buy beer or go to events or, you know, God forbid you lose a family member, you know, in your

James Moffitt (25:45.015)
walking through the, you know, the wasteland of grief, you're like, where's everybody at? You know, and all of sudden they just vaporize because, you know, they don't want to be around you because you've got serious issues, right? They don't know, they don't know how to handle it. They could care less. know, they, yeah, they're, they're your friend, but they say they're your friend, but, but not during the hard times. Right. And so.

Steve Gamlin (26:02.167)
Mm-hmm.

James Moffitt (26:14.414)
So sometimes you find yourself, especially when you're walking down the road, uh, learning how to deal with these five stages of grief. Uh, people keep their distance, you know, even people that say they love you, you know, family members, church members. And I remember calling my pastor, but my church family knew that Chris Jessica had cancer. She's going to MUSC children's hospital. You know, she's

taking chemotherapy, she was taking radiation treatments, all of these things. take, we take her in her wheelchair to church every Sunday. We'd roll her in there and everybody was very welcoming and very supportive of her and doted on her and all of that, you know, but when she, in her last days, when she was, you know, uh, hospice care and she was in a hospital bed at home and like, nobody was saying boo, you know, nobody said squat, you know, I called my pastor and I was like,

Y'all realize Jessica's dying, right? He was like, well, and he was a chaplain. So, you know, he knew he was like, well, he, yeah. And I said, well, I said, uh, we're all alone here and she's not going to be alive much longer. So, and he was like, well, James, what do you expect us to do? I said, just be here. Just come hang out, come see her, you know, cause I'm not expecting anybody to fix anything. I didn't want anybody to show up with magical answers.

I mean, sure. Yeah. If you had a genie in a bottle and you can wave the Aladdin's lamp and make a wish and make her well, you know, I'm all for that. But I haven't met anybody in my, my lineage that has those kinds of skills. but anyway, you know, I just told him, I said, just, just show up, help, you know, watch her for three hours so we can go have a night out and eat dinner, you know, and talk, you know, give us a date night, come over and help Katie with laundry. You know, just help.

hang out with the kids and play with them. You know, we had two other children. And so I just had to, you know, I just had to kind of throw it out there and go, well, you know, she's probably got a week, seven, eight, nine, 10 days left. And after that, it's all she wrote, you know? And so we, then all of sudden we ate, we were swarmed. had, you know, all kinds of visitors and stuff. And, and so.

James Moffitt (28:34.52)
I just tell the story to say that, if you're, if you're walking through grief and all of sudden people just kind of turn into vaporware for them, that's normal. It's normal because people don't know people unless they've dealt with it, unless they've lost somebody close to them. They haven't walked through grief. They haven't walked through those five stages. They have no clue, you know, and it, and this is a club that nobody wants to be a member of. Right. And, so.

So, you know, one of those buyer beware sort of things that, you know, you're you've, you've, you've cashed a, you've cashed a lottery ticket, that has benefits that, nobody else wants part of. Right. So it's our job as the survivors of these relationships to talk about them, bring their names up, go, Hey, you know, just the other day I saw, I remembered something I saw.

Uh, you know, I went to a restaurant and I watched a movie. saw an advertisement on TV. was walking through the house and saw a book or a chair or just, you know, when, when people don't talk to us about it, it's not that they don't care. They just don't, they're ill equipped. They don't know what to say. Right. So, so, so don't be afraid to don't withdraw within yourself. You know, uh,

Cause no man's an Island. That's the last thing you want to do. You don't want to suppress all those emotions and you don't want to, be your own savior per se. know, so every chance, every chance you get, talk about your loved one and that will help other people to go, yeah. You know, they'll, they'll kind of chime in and be there for you. So.

Steve Gamlin (30:21.911)
And I know what you mean too about the people that just kind of disappear. And I used to ask people, they'd say, well, I didn't want to call and bother you. I said, why would it be bothering me? Just for you to call would let me know that you're thinking of me. And one of my coaching clients for the visualization and goal setting stuff, said, she goes, we've done so much amazing work together, but I was so afraid I was going to say something stupid and you'd be mad at me. And I

burst out laughing, and this was on a Zoom call so I could see her face. I burst out laughing in the middle of it I said, Lori, I could never hate you. You can say the most awkward thing in the world and I would love you just as much and I would care that you reached out and asked because just a couple of days after losing Tina in an email, and I honestly don't even remember who this was, and I'm kind of glad I don't, someone said, well, Steve, how old are you? And I, at the time, I said 56.

While you're still young, you've got time to find love again.

And I'm in the hotel where my wife just passed away. I found her, thank God she still had a pulse, so she literally died in my arms with me holding her and telling her I loved her, which I am actually grateful for, because my biggest fear was she was scared and alone. And somebody said that, well, you're still young, there's still time for you to fall in love again. And I thought, you know, anyone that ever said,

I was afraid I'd say something awkward or inappropriate. I tell them that story, go, as long as you don't beat that one, we're good. And then they would laugh just like that and we would just have a great conversation. I've got a dear, dear friend of mine, 20 plus years friendship, whose wife is going through, is living with brain cancer right now and the treatment's on and off. And.

James Moffitt (32:01.87)
Yeah. Right.

Steve Gamlin (32:19.313)
Knowing his sense of humor, there were days I'd just drop a message to him with something funny that we would have shared with one of our mentors who passed away a couple of years ago who was a huge Samuel L. Jackson fan. So if you've ever seen Samuel L. Jackson, he drops the MF word a lot. So we send each other memes. When we feel like the other one needs a laugh, we send each other memes. And he always says the same thing. He goes, it was a rough day, brother. How did you know I needed that today?

James Moffitt (32:31.947)
wow.

Steve Gamlin (32:48.341)
And I always say the same thing, I needed it. And I never worry about being appropriate because that's the level of love and friendship and respect we have for each other. I just say, I just thought you might need to laugh today. know, people are happy, some of them just drop a casserole dish on your porch and that's great too, because they're thinking of you. But there are times you just need to speak with a friend and just let it all out and let it fly and laugh and cry and yell and scream and stomp and whatever.

The phone got real quiet right after Tina's funeral, which was exactly to the day, a month after the day she died because of trying to get her home from Europe. After that, yeah, it got real quiet for a bit. So that's why I proactively joined a grief support group. And I would call people to just laugh and cry and tell old stories and just let go.

because I knew I couldn't lock it all up and keep it inside me. That would have been horrific.

James Moffitt (33:49.433)
Well, you mentioned journaling. Not everybody knows how to do that or is inclined to do that. But for us men, that might be a safe way to get in touch with your feelings. And it's good therapy to write down what's going on from day to day and how you feel and how you react.

what your plans are or aren't or your need for plans or you know you can write all sorts of stuff and I've been journaling for a long time and I'm going through a period right now where I haven't really done any journaling for the last I don't know two or three months and then one day I'll pick it up again you know but anyhow that's a good that's good therapy is to write in a journal.

Steve Gamlin (34:41.301)
Yeah, I've been journaling kind of like yourself for 35 plus years. I've been journaling and I honestly believe, and especially this is especially for the guys who may not be as open and vulnerable and authentic. I think the greatest gift you can give to your future self is something you write down today and openly, honestly admit you're going through and dealing with right now. You can burn it after if you want. I don't care.

but get it out and stop smoke screening stuff and stop excusing things and stop just, well, whatever. Let it rip. I've written many notes to Tina in this one special journal that's either things that are going on or I write a message directly to her. Every emotion is in there. When there's anger, it's never at her or about her. It's just about stuff going on, but get it all out because...

It's poison sometimes when you're dealing with the really tough stuff and you don't get rid of it, it's going to take over.

James Moffitt (35:41.848)
How did your grief shape the way you help others now, especially those who feel stuck or broken?

Steve Gamlin (35:49.59)
I just do my best to be a living example. You know, when I'm dealing with somebody, if they say something and I remember that I had the exact same issue, I try to never say, do this or try this. I try to be compassionate enough and sympathetic and empathetic enough to say, you know, when I felt that this was helpful for me, and I would share a little story that if it works for them, great, but.

I mean, I'm not a therapist or a counselor or psychiatrist or psychologist, so all I get to share is what worked for me. And there too many people out there right now getting certified for $7.50 and getting the psychology and therapy mad libs and they're out there trying to tell other people what to do. That's a dangerous road to be on. So all I do is just openly and honestly share what I've gone through.

And I just hope it helps people. If they come back, I know it did because then we have another conversation about something else. Maybe five, six steps behind me or months behind me. At least I can authentically share where I was and how I've dealt with it. And you know, the good, the bad and the ugly of it.

James Moffitt (36:54.188)
Right? Right.

James Moffitt (37:03.852)
What advice would you give to fathers or husbands facing birthdays, holidays, or anniversaries without their child or spouse?

Steve Gamlin (37:13.537)
God, the year of firsts. I'm still in it. Right now.

Think of the greatest moments and memories you have with that person and how much you would be enjoying your time with them that day is the best thing that I can suggest because if you just see each one as a reminder that they're gone without celebrating them in some way, you would celebrate them if they were there. So what I've done at all those anniversaries and birthdays and everything with Tina is to just celebrate it and say, boy, I wish you were here right now because if you were, we'd be doing this. We'd be making dinner together.

for our birthdays, mine was February, hers was April. were both born, I was only seven weeks older than her. And we didn't do the big cakes or anything like that, because we both trying to eat healthy. We would go to the local grocery store and just get two little cupcakes. So on my birthday and on hers, I went and got a cupcake. And I just enjoyed it and celebrated it and wished that she was here and held up her half and toasted it to her picture and then ate it.

James Moffitt (38:19.982)
There you go.

James Moffitt (38:24.632)
So, what does healing mean to you, not as an endpoint, but as process?

Steve Gamlin (38:31.329)
Yeah, I'd be healing forever.

Tina's loss. Every day it's just to make to take the little steps, the little actions, just the little nudges even to continue to be the best version of me that if she was still here, the version of me I would want to be for her. And she had my back on the days when I didn't even have my back going through rough times. Tina was the fourth death of someone close to me in six years.

Hers was the worst. But even when I was going through all those rough times, she picked me up, she cheered me on. every day, matter of fact, January of 2020, 2023, she came up to me one morning in our living room and I just finished my workout. She came over and she gave me a huge hug and she had her head on my chest and she looked up and she goes, honey, can I ask you a favor? I said, yeah, baby, what's up?

can this be the year that you get famous again so I can look for a less stressful job? Now, for her, meaning being famous was getting back out there on stages, being paid to speak, selling my programs and all of that. She always called that being famous. If somebody called and wanted me to speak for them, to her, that was famous. I said, babe, I'm trying. And she said, she goes, I know you can do it and I know you've been going through a lot because I lost my dad, I lost one of my mentors, we lost our dog and then I lost Tina.

James Moffitt (39:44.888)
Right.

Steve Gamlin (40:04.279)
And it's just every day I get up and I say, I actually wrote that on the whiteboard above my desk a couple months ago. Honey, can this be the year that you get famous again? And I put her picture there and the date, January, 2023. So every day, even if I want to crawl into a dark hole or go back to bed and just not deal with the world, I see that and I go, all right, baby, what can I do today to get famous again?

James Moffitt (40:30.284)
Right? Well, and sometimes you have those days. Sometimes the days are just too painful and you just want to sleep in and just not face the world and not talk to people. And you know, if that's what you need to do to manage the emotions or whatever, then there's nothing wrong with that. That's not, that's not, that's not a state that you want to stay in. It's not something you should, you should live all the time.

But it's okay to have bad days and just lock the door and turn off the phone and sleep. You know, get caught up on your sleep and wake up and do what you want to do and just try to survive. Right. And you'll have, you know, one of the things that people say that's really stupid. Don't tell somebody, don't, don't, don't walk up to somebody that's lost a loved one. know spouse, child, grandparent, whatever parent. well, you know,

You know, and I've had people tell me this, well, it's been six months. You just need to get over it. You need to move on with your life. And I'm like, well, screw you. And the horse you rode in on that's my thought, you know, and, and, and so, so honestly, grief never goes away. It gets less painful. You know, 24 years later, I can talk about Jessica, without tearing up too much. and.

Steve Gamlin (41:33.535)
Yeah.

Steve Gamlin (41:39.403)
Yep.

James Moffitt (41:57.737)
And so the triggers are not as fast and hard as they were initially, you know, you're just reminded constantly of your loved one, you know, but every thing that you can see or think about or hear. And so as time goes on, time has a way of providing some natural healing, right? And so when somebody

When somebody looks at you and tells you that you should get over it, you know, there is no getting over it. You know, they're all, your loved one is always going to be in your life. They're always going to be in your heart. They're always going to be in your mind. They're always going to be reminded of them, you know, so you just, you don't get over grief. You just learn how to walk with it. You learn how to live with it. Right. So

Steve Gamlin (42:46.753)
And when people say stuff like that, I've got a little hashtag I wrote in my head. I actually wrote it down, it's on my desk. It says, hashtag up yours. Because it makes me laugh. mean, some people would, you middle finger or, you know, the F word or stuff like that. I do, I say hashtag up yours because it makes me laugh. Even if I don't say it to them, in my head I'm going, hashtag up yours. And I mean.

If somebody's really obnoxious, say, it's not a little sign. It's a banner flying behind a small plane that everyone on the beach can read. Hashtag up yours. That helps me a lot. And on the days when we're, you you're talking about just wanting to pull the covers back over your head. I actually don't do that because I might not crawl out of that for a couple of days, just with the tendencies, with depression and everything. I actually go out and commit as many simple acts of kindness as I can because

James Moffitt (43:19.741)
sure.

Steve Gamlin (43:37.686)
My family and I have a small nonprofit and we help out some local programs that deal with, that help the homeless and especially homeless veterans and single parents with kids getting back on their feet. Tina was one of the co-founders of this little mission that my family and I created. It became a 501 C3 five years ago. Now I preferred when it was just a little hippie giving mission, but people wanted to give us money. So we had to be become legit because we couldn't accept donations.

James Moffitt (43:38.222)
That's good.

James Moffitt (43:52.797)
wow.

James Moffitt (43:58.328)
Okay.

James Moffitt (44:04.237)
Right.

Steve Gamlin (44:06.431)
So that's what I do even now. If I'm not feeling it here at the house, if I'm just going stir crazy, crawling out of my skin is an explanation I use a lot. I'm just so restless, I'm crawling out of my skin. I just close the laptop.

shut off my phone, go in the basement, because we got a bunch of shelves with canned goods and things that shelters need, put some in the back of the truck, drive across town and just make a donation and just talk with people. And I was at a place yesterday and here's a gentleman who was, I'm assuming age-wise a Vietnam vet, was in a wheelchair. Just there, he had wheeled all the way over from his house to...

James Moffitt (44:45.432)
Mm-hmm.

Steve Gamlin (44:51.531)
get a couple of food items for the week. I overheard him say, and God bless him on this journey, he said, I just got diagnosed with stage four pancreatic cancer. Now I'm familiar with that. That is how I lost one of my grandfathers, so I know how painful that is. And I just said, okay, I'm walking, I'm talking, I'm living. I've got the ability to share.

James Moffitt (45:03.758)
Mmm.

James Moffitt (45:10.008)
Yeah.

Steve Gamlin (45:18.793)
And here's this gentleman taking it all he can to get there to just get a couple of food items for him and his wife.

I come home different every time. And not to say that, I have nothing to complain about. It's more of, you know what? There's a lot of people who need some help out here. And if you can bring a couple cans of soup or something or a four pack of toilet paper to a shelter, you get to make someone else's day easier and relieve some of their pressure and maybe grief if they've lost somebody as well. So kindness has been a big part of it.

James Moffitt (45:29.468)
sure.

James Moffitt (45:53.219)
Yeah, paying it forward is a huge therapy tool, think. Getting out of yourself, getting out of your head and looking at the world around you. Like I work security part time. I'm semi-retired. I still have to work part time security job at Walmart, driving a patrol car and I see lots and lots of...

I fun lovingly call it the freak show because I sit there. I sit there for six hours and just watch humanity flow in and out of the store. And there's, there's some normal people that go there, but there are some freaks that go there too. And you're just like, what? They live amongst us. But I see a lot of homeless. I see a lot of homeless people, you know, and I, and there's a, there's a lady that's older than me. She's 66, about the same age as my wife.

Steve Gamlin (46:23.947)
Yeah, I don't blame you. I've seen the videos on YouTube.

Steve Gamlin (46:40.021)
Yep. Yeah.

James Moffitt (46:51.884)
She looks like somebody's grandmother and she's been on the streets for two years, you know, and I help her as much as I can, you know, help feed her and, you know, and give her suggestions to hopefully make her life a little simpler. but anyway, yeah, that's, that's,

It's tough, you know, going out into the community and seeing what other people are walking through and experiencing in life, there's, there's always somebody that has it worse than you do. You know, they may not be, they may not be walking through the five stage of grief. or they might, they might be walking through the five stages of grief, but it's just over something else like a job loss or, know, I lost my job. lost my car. I lost my home now.

I'm living on the streets in a tent city behind Walmart. You know, there's a lot of grief involved in that, you know? but anyway, I have to ask you, I see this inspire sign behind you that's lit up. you, what's the story behind that?

Steve Gamlin (47:45.771)
Yeah, yep.

Steve Gamlin (47:54.998)
Yeah, well actually the original name of my speaking business was inspired by Steve. So that word has been a big part of it because when somebody said, what do you want to do? I said, I just want to inspire people to become a better version of themselves. So my license plate on my vehicle is inspire I N S P Y R E cause the right spelling wasn't available at the time, but about five years ago, Tina saw some special, I think on good morning America, some company was giving a

James Moffitt (48:13.74)
Okay. Right.

Steve Gamlin (48:22.505)
a discount on custom neon signs and she went online and surprised me by getting a blue light that says inspire.

James Moffitt (48:31.102)
wow, I like that. That's very nice. You have inspired me to maybe get something like that for me, for my, for my little home studio. I don't know where I would put it. I've got this banner behind me or this backdrop to hide, to hide my, my network printer and my gun safes and all of that. Cause, because I don't, I don't want to offend any snowflakes out there, especially on my Liberty.

Steve Gamlin (48:48.759)
Yep.

Steve Gamlin (48:53.951)
of course not.

James Moffitt (48:56.108)
Liberty and gun rights podcast. I don't care about that, but my parenting podcast, you know, I don't want to have that. I don't want that to be behind me while I'm talking to them about children. But anyway.

Steve Gamlin (49:06.635)
Yep, I've got Inspire on this wall and Vision on the other side. So I flip flop around depending on which of my clients I'm speaking with. I've, you know, I got the Vision one made, got the Inspire one made, and I said, my gosh, she's here with me every time I turn it on, so.

James Moffitt (49:14.778)
okay.

James Moffitt (49:24.248)
Yeah, maybe I need to get a neon sign like that and just put it up there in the corner where I can see it. Maybe it's not supposed to be there for other people to see it. Maybe it's for me to be able to see it. But that's good. Well, Steve, I appreciate you being on the show. Thank you for sharing your grief journey. Thank you for talking to us about my Tina. And I appreciate your willingness to inspire other people and help them to have a better day.

Steve Gamlin (49:28.833)
Yeah.

Yep. Yeah, that's an important part.

James Moffitt (49:54.028)
better life.

Steve Gamlin (49:55.423)
I was honored to be here and thank you so much for inviting me. This was a great start to my day. Thank you.

James Moffitt (50:02.2)
Good. So to the listening audience, I'll say thank you for joining us today on Father's Refuge. This is a place where fathers and husbands can come together, share our stories, and find comfort in knowing we are not alone. Remember, your grief matters, your voice matters, and your healing matters. Until next time, take care of yourself and hold on to hope. Bye-bye.