Episode 44: A.J. Brown to Patriots + Myles Garrett to Rams

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

All right, welcome into the season, episode 44. Um subscribe on YouTube if you can. We really appreciate it and follow on Apple and Spotify. Uh Nick, we did a show on Sunday night, and we thought, okay, it's likely it felt inevitable, AJ Brown's gonna get traded and all that. Turned out to be a wild week because someone had told me too, like I think it was Monday morning, because Monday was the first, right? Is that right? Monday was the first? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 0:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 0:28

And so nothing could happen, like if we're talking post-June 1, nothing could happen until later in the day on Monday until after the league year, or not the league year, after that deadline of like 4 p.m. Eastern. And I heard a rumor that like there's gonna be some news that's gonna break the NFL. And I'm and I you just assume, like, oh, everyone knows AJ Brown, that news coming. The question is, what's the compensation gonna be? We finally got answers to that question, but then we hear about Miles Garrett going to the Rams. And like you and I said, or I said many times last year, watching the NFC West, I felt like the Rams and the Seahawks were the two best teams in football last year. And then I know I realized the Seahawks won it all. But I thought the Rams were the best team in football. Just my personal opinion, top to bottom. And the Rams had a generational pass rusher. He's gonna go down as a top three pass rusher of all time. Top two. Miles Garrett going to the Rams. What was your initial reaction to that?

SPEAKER_02 1:21

I mean, the Rams are already so good and they've been loading up this offseason. Um, they just became, I mean, I agree with your statement. I mean, obviously the Seahawks were the best team last year winning the Super Bowl and being dominant, but I just thought the Rams, like you said, top to bottom were just outstanding. And adding Miles Garrett, I mean, they are the team to beat in the NFL.

SPEAKER_01 1:44

It's wild, man. So Miles, about a year ago, signed a four-year, he set the benchmark for pass rushers. It's why other pass rushers have been like, you know, uh Micah Parsons has been like trying to compare himself from a pay standpoint to Miles Garrett. Miles Garrett was setting, setting the benchmark for pass rushers. Four years 160 million with a no trade clause. Okay, so he had the right. Now, obviously, if you're in Cleveland, you got a chance to go play for the Rams. You're not you're gonna say, okay, I'll I'll waive my no trade clause. Send me a little bit more.

SPEAKER_02 2:13

Why do you say that? You don't want to stay in Cleveland?

SPEAKER_01 2:16

Todd Munkin? Look, Miles has been in the league for nine years with Cleveland, okay? So one thing you're gonna hear a lot from people, this is this is just a low-hanging fruit on Miles Garrett. If you flip on any show on TV, this is what you're gonna hear. Man, Miles Garrett gets to play for a team that's gonna play with the lead, and therefore he's gonna have more obvious pass rushing situations. Okay, I don't mean to like that. Is true, I'm not minimizing what that means, but if you go back to like the Peyton Manning days, right? Robert Mathis, Dwight Freeney, those two guys benefited immensely from having an offense that was really, really good and generally had the lead. And so they'd play against teams where in the second half these teams couldn't afford to just consistently run the ball, they had to throw the ball. And so those guys would pin their ears back and say, This is how we get paid. Now they're great players. Like Dwight Freeney is fantastic, and Robert Mathis was great, but that helped them be great, right? So you're gonna hear a lot of people say that about Miles is that now he's in a situation on a good team because if you go back to his Cleveland days, Nick, get this, and then you can share some perspective on what it's like to play a pass rusher like this in a situation like this. When he was in Cleveland for nine years, hear me out on this. Over nine years, only eight times in his nine-year career in Cleveland, did he play in a game where his team had a seven seven point or greater lead in that game. Okay, so generally, and nothing yeah, over nine years. Now that doesn't mean that he's not like he's had 134 career games and 125 and a half sacks. That does not mean that you know there weren't times in the game where it was close and teams would still have to throw the ball. Like, and the NFL's different now than it was 15 years ago, right? Like the name of the game is is I mean, and you gotta run the ball effectively, but there's more passing, generally speaking. So the opportunity should be more plentiful. However, this dude in Cleveland over nine years, eight times his team had a touchdown or greater lead in the game to where he had very obvious passing situations. And last year he was 23 sacks, set the single season NFL record. And over his career so far, 134 games, 125 and a half sacks. And he gets the benefit now of playing for a team that's probably gonna have the lead quite a bit.

SPEAKER_02 4:24

I mean, he's he's gonna have the lead more than eight times in his first nine games. Like he's gonna break his nine-year record, or what do you say, 134 games? In the first eight games, maybe you're saying in the first eight games, he's gonna get to experience what he only got to experience eight times in his nine-year career in Cleveland. And I I I mean, the last couple years there's been um conversations about him potentially leaving Cleveland and wanting out of Cleveland, but they know that they Cleveland knows the type of player he is, um, one of the greatest of all time. So they don't want him to leave, they give him a new contract. But hey, you have no trade clause, like you can decide. Um, the no trade claw was that was his, or was that the teams?

SPEAKER_01 5:04

That was his. So he had the right to void, so he had the right to waive it. Yeah, if they tried to send him to you know Carolina, he'd be like, Nope, not happening, right? Like, but no, it's the Browns, though, right?

SPEAKER_02 5:14

I mean, what an exciting opportunity for him, you know, in the second half of his career. Um, you never know how many years you have. I mean, nine years, long time. So have an opportunity this next season to go win a Super Bowl. You have to ask yourself, I'm not saying Cleveland doesn't have a chance. It's probably like 0.02%, but like there's still a chance. Like you step on the field, you have a chance, and maybe Todd Munkin goes in and changes everything, and it's the greatest turnaround in sports history almost, right? Um, I don't see that, but you never know. But now he goes to the Rams, and you got he's got to be thinking like, hey, I get I get to go play for a great coach, I get to go play for a great team, and we have one of the greatest quarterbacks of all time in Matthew Stafford, who is the reigning NFL MVP, you know, just you know, getting to go back there and dice up defenses. And mind you, they had a great run game. So I think for him, um, all the talking heads, everyone saying that. I mean, you and I in the pre-talk before we jumped on when I was driving back home, I mean, the first thing I think of is man, how exciting for him. He's gonna the teams that play against the Rams are gonna have to throw the ball. Like I've played for teams, like when I put when I put ironically, when I played for the St. Louis Rams, or you know, I played even in Indianapolis my last year, we just weren't great offensively. So teams knew that, you know, they just had to run the ball and just get some points on the board, and they were probably gonna find a way to win the game. That's not the case when you're playing for the Los Angeles Rams with Matthew Stafford. Like, you're gonna score some points, you're gonna have the lead, and having those dynamic DNs or having him over there just pinning his ears back and going, I mean, that's a dangerous combination, and that's gotta be really exciting for him because he's gonna get a lot more sacks because of that and cause a lot of chaos.

SPEAKER_01 6:54

No question. Look, and I think it's got implications for the rest of the NFC West, obviously, right? Like every other NFC West team is being asked about it. Trent Williams had a press conference today's tackle for the for the San Francisco 49ers. They said, Uh, what do you think? What are you thoughts on this? He's like, honestly, it sucks. It sucks that I gotta go block block this guy twice a year, right? Like, it's not.

SPEAKER_02 7:14

How old is Trent right now, man? I mean, he's yeah, he's getting up there. He's played a what an amazing career, but to block him and Miles not that old, right?

SPEAKER_01 7:21

There's still there's still some good years left, right around 30 years old. There's still some good years left for him. Um it the Rams are loaded, right? This offseason, the Rams added Trent McDuffie um on the back end at DB. Uh, and I'm blanking on the kid they added from uh from Washington State. Um guy they traded for. Anyway, another guy on the back end. So added two critical defensive backs, Trent McDuffie being the main one. And then you add Miles Garrett as well. So you addressed your issues in the offseason if you're the Rams. They're gonna be scary good. They were really good last year, but now they add these pieces, it's it's it's big time. And we'll teams coach. Yeah, special teams. That was that was another one of the issues. Um, but what it's done too, so I I think there's there's a valid comparison, different way that it happened, but there's a valid comparison to Reggie White. So Reggie White being already one of the all-time great pass rushers, I believe it was at 31 years old. Uh, Reggie White was a free agent signing, one of the largest free agent signings in NFL history. When he left the Philadelphia Eagles, went to the Green Bay Packers. And it's crazy because they're roughly the same age. Reggie was eight years in his career at that point. Miles is nine years in. Reggie had 124 sacks at this point in his career when he was making that change after eight years. Miles has 125 and a half. That's wild, right? So there are some similarities about where they're at in their career. The key takeaway here, though, is Reggie then went on to have 68 and a half more sacks in his career.

unknown 8:43

Right?

SPEAKER_01 8:44

So you got like roughly 50% more after that. Uh, which is crazy. And so this may speak to what's left for Miles. Anyone that I know that knows Miles Garrett, obviously you can see it with your own eyes, but says that like I mean, like Joe Thomas, for example, like my good friend who was a Hall of Fame left tackle in Cleveland. If you ask him who the best pass rushers he's ever faced are, he'll tell you three guys. He tells you to Marcus Ware, he'll say Dwight Freeney, mainly because he respected the power and the speed of both of them. He doesn't respect one-trick ponies. You can't just be a speed guy, you can't just be a power guy. You respect you gotta have both. And the last one is Miles Garrett. And I think that says even more because he saw Miles every day in practice, right? Like it's one thing if you see a guy in a game every once in a while and you watch him on film, but when you see a guy every day in practice and you still feel that way about him, that's wild because it just it speaks to the fact that this dude is just Miles Garrett is as good, as good as advertised, right? And it's just a massive signing for the Los Angeles Rams, so much so that you're hearing whispers, and I think there's something to this. Aaron Donald possibly returning, he wants to get in on the mix because why? You can no longer just only focus on Aaron Donald anymore on the defensive line. Your focus has to shift to the outside, chipping Miles Garrett, doing all these different things you have to do to stop him. And Aaron Donald's like, well, I everyone knows I still got something left in the tank. We know he stays he stayed in shape. And there are a lot of people in the football world that look at this and say it's just a matter of time till till Aaron Donald comes back. May not be preseason, maybe mid-season, and only plays half the year. There are some people that really feel that Aaron Donald will come back, and he's obviously one of the greatest interior pass rushers of all time. So even more crazy.

SPEAKER_02 10:21

I'll tell you what, that is a scary thought because I I had several thoughts come to come to my head. Um, I do have to say this, this statement, because I told him I would. Um, one of my pickleball partners, uh, also a quarterback, uh, Nick Strymick had, you know, he listens to our show. He was making the correlation between Miles Garrett and Reggie White. I'm like, hey, listen, Ev probably already has this built into the show. So Nick, Ev had it built in the show, but thank you for listening. Thank you, Nick. And had a great time playing pickleball today. Um, but now back to the show. If I think about like when I think about playing Aaron Donald, I remember we were in LA and you know, we put I played there in 2017 and 2018. I think it was 2018. We had this play, we had these run plays. You remember where like if he's either at a shade or a three technique with people learning football, like just imagine where the quarterback is under center and just like right to the left or right, like shading the center, or like a gap over, you know, next to the guard. Um, and we would have a run called uh wham. So you you wham the technique. So, but what that also means is you leave him unblocked. Um, you literally just like you know, your guard goes one way, your center goes the other way, and Brent Selic or whoever's playing tight end, Brent wasn't playing an 18 at the time, he had already retired after the Super Bowl, but like comes back, lines up off the ball, comes back in, whams him, and you run it's it's more or less a trap.

SPEAKER_01 11:43

You it's like it's a trap. Yeah, we just think he's on into thinking he's unblocked, and then you blast him when he comes off the ball with some.

SPEAKER_02 11:50

I remember going to the game, and you do that, you actually do that versus good players because you sort of get a little blindside shot. Yeah, but the good ones know when they're and all of a sudden they don't have presence, like they're for their mind goes, why why is no one blocking me? And then they know something's coming. Yep. I don't like doing that versus Aaron Donald. I didn't like doing it in that game because my whole thing is like he's so good off the ball, he's gonna get like I'm not the fastest guy, but I'm like, he's gonna jump, he's gonna grab my ankles, it's gonna be tough. So, like the first time we do it, I think I did a quick count, which was like, set hut, white 80, white, which a normal cadence is set up, white 80, white 80, set hut. So I was just trying to catch him off guard. And then I try to switch it to maybe a hard three. Set up, white 80, whitey, set hot, hot. But man, he almost got me twice, and then we came back to the well. And I remember getting I it came through the headset, and I just said, screw this, I ain't doing it again. I go, hey guys, trip strike bunch, jab 92 rub. We ain't doing the wham again. I'm not doing it. And we and I will say this, I I talked to, I think when we talked to Stouter, I talked to Stout. He remembered that that I totally went on my own. I was like, hey, I'm not running this play again. He he he's jumping off the ball way too good, and he knows it's coming because I'm going under center. He's looking right at me and he is fired up. I was his teammate in St. Louis. I know the kind of player he is, everyone knows the kind of player he is. Uh, we got like 15, 20 yards on the play. It was like sort of a cut pack, it worked out well. But I went to the sideline, I was like, hey, no more of that. Like he he's he's ready for it. We have other stuff. Like, I respect the player too much. He's just so talented. So if you had Aaron Donald and Miles Garrett, that's unreal. I don't see that happening. I think Aaron, you know, there's been clips, and it's funny how the Instagram algorithm works. Like we talk about this, or we're gonna talk about a topic, or in golf right now, I'm working on my takeaway swing. All of a sudden I go to like my my Instagram and it's like, hey, here's some takeaway swing grill drills. Hey, here's Aaron Donald at his house bench pressing 150-pound dumbbells. Oh, wait, he's just gonna drop them down, start doing road pools, and then he's gonna do something else with it. Uh, it's funny how all that works, but there's also a clip of I think he was with his wife and they were at a uh award show or something, and they asked him, Are you done? Are you done? Yeah, I'm done. And she's over there saying, like, yeah, he's done. It's also a family decision. Um, I don't see him coming back. I think it'd be really fun if he did for the NFL if he did. But yeah, I think once you make that decision in a couple years past, like you sort of, you sort of you you're good where you're at.

SPEAKER_01 14:05

Yeah, I mean, he left pretty young. Um he might want to get on the action. We'll see. I mean, who knows?

SPEAKER_02 14:11

That'd be awesome if he did.

SPEAKER_01 14:12

Look, to but to put a bow on that, the Browns received so Jared Verse is on the move. That was the the the good young pass rusher, first round pick for the Rams. Um, Jared Verse on the move and a 2027 first round pick and a 2028 second round pick and a 2029 third round pick and Jared Verse all go to the Browns, and the Rams get Miles Garrett. So the Rams give up another first round pick. Now, Nick, get this.

SPEAKER_02 14:36

I mean, it's a win-win, really. Like Cleveland's continuously building, they've been building for the last 20-something years, so they're still building, and then the Rams get a chance to get even better and win a Super Bowl this year, and then they get all the picks and a young player in Jared Verse that's gonna sort of fill the gap.

SPEAKER_01 14:51

So, going back, if you if you include this year in 2026, going back 11 years, 11 drafts, this is fascinating. And the br over this time, the Rams have generally been pretty good. Okay, the the Rams with Les Sneed and with Sean McVay just proved they're not a tape, they're not afraid to take big swings, and they go all in. And I think the best GMs in football, you know, the Howie Rossman's the John Schneiders of the world, they also are not afraid to take big swings, but they balance it with like a lot of good like discipline on things too. Okay, so like when they see an opportunity, they're not afraid to go all in on it if they feel like it's the right one, right? You can make that argument about AJ Brown and Howie Rossman, right? Back in 2021, Howie the passing game won great. He goes and gets AJ Brown, gives a first round pick for a receiver, gets four amazing years out of him, then trades him for a first round pick. That's incredible, right? That's like the exception, not the rule. That that was amazing the way they did that. Now if you go back and look at the Rams draft picks the last 11 years, so 2016 to all the way to 2026, that's 11 drafts. Two times they have used their own first round pick, or they had a first-round pick to use because they didn't trade it away. Two times. One of them was Jared Goff in 2016, and he was eventually traded for the Matt's for Matt Stafford in that deal, right? And then in 2024, so two years ago, they drafted Jared Verse in the first round. And he was eventually traded in the Miles Garrett deal.

SPEAKER_02 16:12

So they've technically traded all their first round picks.

SPEAKER_01 16:14

Uh I take that back three times because the last one is Ty Simpson, obviously.

SPEAKER_02 16:18

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:18

Okay, so Ty Simpson's now going to be the backup, or if he wins the backup job, he'll be the backup there in the city.

SPEAKER_02 16:22

Or traded in two to three years.

SPEAKER_01 16:25

So in 11 years, they've only selected three three guys in the first round with their own pick, and one of them is still on the team, and that's the guy that just joined the team, hasn't even played in the season yet, and that's Ty Simpson. So there's this funny little thing with the Rams and the shirt that Les Sneed had that said F them picks, right? Because he's like, we don't need them. And look, I mean, a lot of times what this becomes, it can it can cause salary cap issues too and all that, right? Because you're you're going to get guys that are very expensive, you're restructuring deals, you're kicking the can down the road on how much you're gonna pay them this year. With I went in on the previous show, I went into like salary cap implications and how with bonus money you can push stuff out and give yourself some cap relief now. It's kind of short-term gain for long-term pain because the bill's gonna eventually become due on these things. And it may result in a in a rough season here or there if you if you maintain the strategy. It may result in a rough season here and there every four to five, six years, but it's a price they're willing to pay. They say, you know what? Like we've got a great quarterback, a hall of fame quarterback, and now we've got a hall of fame pass rusher. Also, I I think is what's really critical here in what they've done the Rams have closers on both sides of the ball, right? Every great team has that. And Matt Stafford, closer, one of the greatest quarterbacks of all time, right? And on the defensive side of the ball, now you've got a true game changer that makes a play in a key situation to win, you know, what let like if it's the NFC championship, whatever it is, you've got big time closers on both sides of the ball. And as long as the only way this isn't a smashing success, despite what they had to give up, the Rams, that is, the only way this isn't a smashing success is if, God forbid, Miles Garrett gets hurt. Right? You know, like as the dreaded Achilles injury or whatever that and I hate to say it, but it's just a consideration, right? And you you can't have a miss eight, you can't have him miss 12 to 14 months, right? If you're gonna go make a swing like this, it has to work out. But by and large, given the athl, given the athlete he is, given how hard he works, how well conditioned he is, he should be just fine. And the Rams are man, the Rams are gonna be fun to watch. Let's put it that way. And we'll get into the NFC West in a second, but that's another thing to keep in mind too.

SPEAKER_02 18:29

Well, I think too, all I mean, every team in the NFC just, I mean, including like the Eagles, who are you know, a great team in the NFC. Um, we're sitting there. They start they started sweating a little bit more because they're right. Now we got to deal with this guy's in our conference. And, you know, now we have the NFC West. I mean, it is just loaded. So they uh it just the NFC just got even tougher, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_01 18:54

All right, uh, let's come back to AJ Brown real quick. Like we said on Sunday night, we knew uh everybody knew that this trade was imminent. Um, you know, when Adam Scheffter, you know, three to four weeks beforehand reports that the deal's in the works, it's happening. You know, everybody knew that. We everyone knew why as far as June 1 goes. We talked about that from a cap standpoint, a salary cap standpoint. But I think it's, Nick, I I I don't know if you're gonna agree with me on this, but I think it's possible. Uh I think what we should acknowledge that in the midst of all the trade speculation over the last several months, even dating, you know, going back into into the season, wondering if he'd be traded midseason, it's really easy to forget or overlook, I should say, not forget, overlook just what kind of player AJ was when he was there and what he meant to the organization. So I'll I'll lead with this. The Eagles didn't have a wide receiver eclipse 1,000 yards in a season for seven seasons until AJ Brown arrived. All right. Now, it doesn't mean the Eagles weren't good, but it just goes to show you like guys that put up a thousand yards, and by the way, AJ Brown, all four years he was in Philly had a thousand yards. Each of those four years. And two of those years, he was over 1,400 yards, which rank as the two highest in Eagles history. Okay, and he did all this in four years. He has the most 1,000 yard seasons in Eagles history, he has two Super Bowl appearances, or he's part of two teams that went to Super Bowls. Now, what do his next four years look like? Do they look like his last four? I don't know. I think it's reasonable to expect his next two will look pretty similar to this. I think he's almost 29 years old, and so that's reasonable. I think receivers over 30, it gets a little dicey, injury-wise, performance-wise, could fall off. But overall, in Philly, four seasons, 339 receptions over four years, 5,034 yards, 32 touchdowns, Super Bowl champ, three-time all pro. There's a reason that how he went to get him. So I'm I'm underscoring just what he was as a player, right? There's a reason how he went to get him in twenty after the 2021 season. They needed a weapon. They were looking at other guys too. I think it was like Calvin Ridley and um who's the guy you played with in uh Chicago.

SPEAKER_02 21:02

Talking about uh Darnell Mooney?

SPEAKER_01 21:05

No, uh he's Alan Robinson. Alan Robinson. He was another guy they looked at. So they were they were really looking hard again, and they ended up get giving up I think it was a eight the 18th overall pick in the first round to Tennessee, and a third round pick. They then get now, this is where the Eagles, this is where they you know, even though you're get you're losing a good player, you still got a great deal here. They get four elite years of production from AJ Brown. Some trouble in the final year, especially, but four elite years of production. And they then send him on his way for a first round pick in 2028, and what was it, a third round pick this year? Eagles receive a 2028 first and a 2027 fifth round pick. Okay, so you you basically say, Give me that asset, give me all that production. Yeah, we're gonna they had to pay him, like they extended him and all that, they paid him, and they got everything they could ask for him, and then they sent him on his way and basically got that first round pick back. So, from the Eagles standpoint, even if he goes to New England and has You know, two more insane years. That's fantastic for what the Eagles got. And keep this in mind too. The Eagles probably feel like they did right by him because he did not have any no-trade clause. And granted, it was an AFC team, not an NFC team, but they sent him to a contender. They sent him to a team that went to the Super Bowl last year. Now, granted, their schedule's gonna be a lot different this year. The Patriots said it. It's gonna be tougher. But like, I think if you're AJ, you have to feel like, hey man, I appreciate it. The Eagles did right by me. Right? They didn't send me to Jacksonville. Jacksonville's not that bad anymore, but there's other places they could have sent him to Miami, right? Not that Miami's a suitor. But like we heard other teams in the mix. The Rams, the Chargers, I think are other teams we heard. Now I don't know that they were willing to give up a first-round pick. Maybe Patriots were just the team that was willing to give up the most. That's very possible. But like you send them, like you got sent to a contender, dude. For a team that knew you were kind of disgruntled and felt like it was time to move on. All this production, and they still sent you to a contender.

SPEAKER_02 22:59

Yeah, I mean, uh it's one of those things where I think it worked out great for both sides. Really, it's not, you know, we talked about who wins the trade and everything, and um, everything you just said about his time in Philadelphia. I mean, all the Philadelphia fans, I'm not exactly sure how they feel about this whole situation. I'm sure you know they were frustrated last year, they're happy it's over, all those different things. But I think you got to look at the perspective of like, listen, this guy was a big part of the team going to two Super Bowls and winning one, winning the team's second Super Bowl. So I think you got to like focus and cherish those those moments, those memories, realizing like he was a key contributor to the success of the Philadelphia Eagles during his time there. And you know, he represented the Midnight Green well. Um, but now, you know, everything last year, every we knew he was gonna be traded. Everything pointed to the Patriots. And I will say this, it's really cool. It worked out great for him. I think how he, I mean, but the fact that it's an AFC team, you're gonna see him in the Super Bowl, right? You know, if they're a contender, like and also the Eagles know him better than anyone. They went against him every day in practice. Vic Fangio knows. So if they happen to go to the Super Bowl and play the Patriots again, you know, like we did in the past, like they're gonna know what to do against him because they know what he's great at, what his flaws are. So they're not really worried about that as well. But it is cool. I think one of the coolest things is this. I know he's been frustrated and all those different things, but seeing his smile at the Patriots practice um and knowing, like hearing all the stories now of like him as a kid, he's talking about like growing up a Patriots fan, and not many people get to play for the team they grew up loving. Like, I grew up in Austin, Texas. Uh, my mom went to the University of Texas, her family went to the University of Texas. I grew up loving the University of Texas and loving Texas Longhorn football. I went on junior day, um, there was no interest, all those different things. I realized that burnt orange was never going to be the color I would wear. And that was tough. I never got to play for the childhood uh team I loved. And then you shift gears, and I'm really grateful I did. I got to go, you know, be an Arizona Wildcat, all those things. God had a plan, and I'm super grateful for. Well, this is a different um thing for AJ Brown. Like, you know, in his career, he's still in his prime. He gets to play for a contender in the Patriots, he gets to wear that jersey. And I think it's cool when you hear like he's at practice. Listen, he's not like a young rookie that's playing for his dream team. He's one of the best receivers in football that has a Super Bowl ring, and has been the two Super Bowls and has played, been the Pro Bowls and done all those. He is in awe being at practice for the New England Patriots, just looking there and looking at his jersey, looking at his helmet, looking at the, you know, the you know, the Patriot symbol. I think that's really cool just from a human perspective. Like X's and O's, I think Josh McDaniels is gonna do a lot of great things with him. I think he's gonna help Drake May. We're gonna talk a lot of football, but from the human side of it, like that is really cool. And just seeing him smile, seeing how enthusiastic he is in press conferences, I think that's really awesome. And you know, you might have Eagles fans out there be like, oh, this and that, like whatever. Listen, y'all got four great years of them, Super Bowl ring, uh, all these things. And then, like, I know there'll be comments probably taking out context, or hopefully people understand that Jordan Mulata said the other day, where it's like, thank goodness it's over, right? There's something along those lines. What he's saying is when you're in a locker room and you know that something is gonna happen, but you're not allowed to talk about it, but you still have to endure the timeline, it's a lot on the players, it's a lot on the locker room. I remember in 18 after the Super Bowl year, going in the next season. Um, you know, we had to keep quiet that you know, Carson was recovering from uh his injury, that he wasn't gonna be ready for the first two games. We knew that, but we would never say that. We weren't allowed to speak on it, we just had to be very vague. That adds more pressure to players when you're like, man, like I know this information, but like we're not allowed to share it because it it gives another team an advantage they can game plan for, plus it puts pressure on X, Y, and Z. So that being said, the reason Jordan said that is I'm sure he respects AJ. They want a Super Bowl together, all those things. But he's like, man, now we can just like play. He's a Patriot, our locker room's our locker room. We don't have to like go into these, like when the media is asking us questions, we don't have to shy away from the AJ Brown conversation, we don't have to talk about it anymore. We can just be the Philadelphia Eagles that are at the Novicare facility, and he can go play for the New England Patriots, and we can still be boys and everything's good. So that's a little bit more context for everyone who's listening.

SPEAKER_01 27:29

Yeah, I think that's a really good point. Um, you know, I mentioned earlier too, Nick, like the opportunity it could create for other guys on the roster. When you lose that level of production, um, it's gonna open up for others, right? So I think I was trying to think of an example of that in recent memory. Like when DK Metcalf, who was a very productive receiver in Seattle, when he left Seattle, um, it opened up more space for JSN, as far as more, more I should say, more statistical production space, more targets, right? Because DK, when he's on a team, is gonna demand targets. So it opened it up even more for JSN. JSN's become an incredibly productive receiver in the NFL. Um, you could argue that if DK was there, then it would make it even easier on JSN because you wouldn't be able to key on him as much. I understand that concept too, but you know, there's only so many balls to go around. And so when a when a when a high profile guy leaves, there's gonna be more targets for others. So the obvious one would be Devontae Smith. Does he rise even more? Devontae in his time in Philly, five years, has already had three thousand yard seasons. He's already been very productive, right? Um remember I said, you know, dating back to the arrival. So the the first year that AJ was here, they both were over a thousand yards. But no one had done it before that for seven years. As I'm talking 2022 being AJ's first year and Devontae's second year in Philly. But we've talked about other guys on the roster, Mikhail Lemon, Dontavian Wicks, Hollywood Brown, Elijah Moore, um, and obviously the tight end position as well. But the obvious like Devontae's gonna stay the course, possibly become become even more productive. And then the really obvious one of someone that could step up and make a massive impact, and I think really be a hundred-catch kind of guy, um is Mikai Lemon, right? Given the skill set that he has, work him on the outside, work him on the inside. Now, granted, he's he's a rookie, and there's gonna be some unknowns until he proves it, especially at this level over a long season, right? He's never had to deal with a season this long before, as well. So, how does he play in December? That'll be interesting too. So the opportunities are gonna be there, right? And a new offense with Sean Mannion, uh, things are gonna look a little differently schematically. I think it just becomes really exciting for this receiving core to look at who's gonna step up. We already went over what AJ accomplished in Philly. So it's hard for me to sit here and say, oh, they're gonna be better off losing a guy that had that twice had over 1400 yards in Philly. Um we're not dumb. We know that AJ's highly talented and is a game-changing player, right? But there still is an exciting element here of what some of these other guys could do, and possibly losing some of those distractions about who's not getting the ball, who is, and oh, AJ's not not happy, saying it's a shit show when he was on what was that, playing a game or whatever online, right? He was talking to someone saying it's a shit, you know. So you don't have to deal with that, which is a positive thing. Yeah, you subtract that, that subtraction, that's kind of addition by subtraction. And I'm really looking forward to watching this receiving core get after it and see who's gonna step up because there's going to be opportunities for new guys.

SPEAKER_02 30:14

Yeah, I mean, like the statistic you shared earlier where like seven years before you got there, the thousand-yard receivers and stuff like that. I mean, I was, I think if the math is right, like that we had won a Super Bowl one of those years, right? And we were really great offensively, but we had so many guys that we spread the ball around um that could make plays. And I think everyone was just unselfish. They just wanted to be the best teammate they could be for the guy next to them. They wanted to do their part for the offense. So, you know, it's great having those thousand yards receivers, but at the same time, like I also want like a cohesive unit, um, guys that are all in for each other and are excited when their brother has success. And, you know, we got everyone involved during our years there. But you still want those guys that can make the big plays. Like I had, you know, Alshon Jeffrey, Zach Ertz, you know, Brent Selic was, you know, basically a tackle. Sorry, Brent, but you you still made some plays, Brent. You were you're a baller and one of the greatest eagles of all time. Um, all those guys we had, they just went and did their job. Nelson Aguilar, Tori Smith, Matt Collins was there, had some big plays as a rookie. Um, you know, even out of the backfield, the guys, you know, Jay Ajay, Corey Kament. Um honestly, Nick, I think that that approach by committee is it's dangerous because you can never key on a guy and you just have to play a defense. Like, yeah, if you if you have like one star receiver and everyone else is okay, um, you can just clout them or try to take them away and force everyone else to do it. But like if you have it by committee, everyone's making plays and the defense just has to play straight up. And then, you know, I mentioned all those guys, and you got Laguerre Blunt who's just gonna run over you. You know, you have all these different types of weapons that you know do their thing. I mean, it makes it really dangerous. And I'll tell you this for my time during those years, everyone was unselfish. Everyone just wanted to win. We wanted to win and we wanted to win the Super Bowl, but we knew it you couldn't think about winning a Super Bowl like before you got there. Like you guys had to win the day each and every day. And then you got to the first game. Hey, let's just win this first game. And then you hear it all. If you're a fan, you hear all these teams talk about one and oh, one and oh, you see a t-shirt, like a new coach will get a t-shirt that everyone's wearing out at a pregame warm-up that it says one and oh. That's just a message of be present today, just focus on this game. This game is the only thing that matters right now in our football career. That is it. Don't think about playing the next team in two weeks, like just focus right now. So that's what the best teams do, and that's what we did. And I know the Eagles, you know, under Nick Siriani, have done a great job of that.

SPEAKER_01 32:42

I love it. I love developing good players and having that committee approach. Even if you don't have a true superstar at some of these positions, you can still be highly productive at these positions. And Devontae Smith's a great player. I'm not gonna downplay what he is, but at the same time, like I think there's a chance to have a very, very productive group as a whole and have a couple a couple specific guys stand out, like we said. So the other thing I think is interesting here, Nick, is what how these two move. So AJ Brown going to the Patriots and Miles Garrett going to the Rams, how they shape up against the rest of the league. There's been some veteran player movement, right? There always is. But if we look at Trent McDuffie, now defensive player, not maybe not as well known as these guys, but that's a massive pickup going from the Chiefs to the Rams. Massive for the Rams. They really needed that piece, right? That guy can play all over the field. You can put him at nickel, you can put him on the outside, you can bring him off the edge, he can play the run. He is a very, very versatile, very, very good player at the defensive back position. Mike Evans, that's one I almost forgot about as I was doing all this. I'm like, oh my god, I forgot Mike Evans went to the went to the Niners. The Niners have not had a true number one at receiver for I don't know how long. Right? Like George Kittle's a tight end, but they've they've kind of had that committee approach for a while. And to be honest with you, I think that that it's kind of hurt them more than it's helped them because it can be done the wrong way, too. Um, Mike Evans is not, you know, he's no spring chicken, but at the same time, like there's some good years left, I think, on his tires. And Mike wins one-on-one. So like you really, as long as he's healthy, he's still in a position career-wise where he's gonna be able to make a lot of plays. So that's going to be a very impactful signing or acquisition, I should say, for for the Niners. Odell Beckham Jr. Um is coming back to the Giants. I think that's only a big deal simply because he used to be with the Giants, and I feel like everyone has to look at it like, oh, oh my God. OBJ's still gonna make the team. Let's put it that way. Like, he's gotta stay healthy through the offseason, he's gotta per perform during training camp and prove that you know he's been a great player during his day, right? But that one is a little less of a headline to me because it's like, okay, like we were late in late in his career, hasn't done, I think the last two years he's got like nine total catches. So that one's a little more of a stretch, but still uh noteworthy. Kenneth Walker, the third, obviously not being franchise tagged by Seattle, becoming a free agent, signing with the Chiefs. Um that's a big one. The Chiefs are gonna need him, they're gonna rely on him pretty heavily in a great year last year. Um, and then Travis Etienne going from the Jaguars to the Saints, Saints are really not a contender. So if I focus more on those first few, so Miles Garrett, AJ Brown, Trent McDuffie, Mike Evans, and really Kenneth Walker the third, those are all like going to contenders, like impactful veteran acquisitions, I think that will be fun to follow over the course of the year.

SPEAKER_02 35:22

No, I think I agree with you. I mean, the Kenneth Walker one like is crazy being the Super Bowl MVP and what a great year, and especially in the playoffs, what he did. And obviously he was gonna demand a lot of money. Um, but man, it's crazy not for him not to be in a Seahawk uniform. Like, that's wild after that kind of season. I can see it like years down the road, but that's wild to me. Um, I don't know if I agree with your your Saints comment though. I I think Kenya Saints are a contender. I don't know. I think that this let me pull up okay.

SPEAKER_01 35:50

You keep talking. I'm gonna pull up their their total over-under win expectation this year.

SPEAKER_02 35:55

Uh listen, I'm not saying I I think the Saints could be a surprise, like, you know, all of a sudden we're week eight and nine, and they're like seven and two.

SPEAKER_01 36:04

That makes one of us.

SPEAKER_02 36:05

I I just I don't know. I just believe in Kellen Moore. I believe in you know him building that team year two. Um I don't think they're gonna have like as difficult of a schedule. I mean, they didn't do great last year, so their schedule shouldn't be that bad. Um, I don't know. I just think that that could be a surprise team, you know, that makes a run and you know has a solid year.

SPEAKER_01 36:28

I I'm gonna pull this up because I'll I'll bet you my guess is their over-under win total. Like you you say you were over-under on their total.

SPEAKER_02 36:36

Six. Nine? You think it's six?

SPEAKER_01 36:38

I want you to pull that up. No chance, no chance it's nine. Um hey, pull up, pull up.

SPEAKER_02 36:43

Can you pull up their strength of schedule strength of schedule too?

SPEAKER_01 36:46

That's gonna, yeah, I can't hold on one second. I mean, we can talk about that another time. This is this wasn't planned.

SPEAKER_02 36:51

I I I brought this to us where you know, I don't know. I just think that they showed some glimpses last year. Kellen Moore, second year there, you know, build on the foundation that he set. I don't know, I like it. I I think it's a good storyline. You know, is the it is the NFL stories or is it just real? I don't know. It'd be a great storyline.

SPEAKER_01 37:10

Here's something interesting. They're plus 2400 to win the Super Bowl, which is tied, it's like an eight-way tie for the worst in the NFL.

SPEAKER_02 37:17

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 37:18

So, you know, if you feel like there's value, you should jump on it. You feel like you know somebody doesn't know you should jump on it.

SPEAKER_02 37:22

I know I know I'm not making predictions like Mikhail Lemon in November of last year going to the Eagles, but I'm just saying, like, I think they could be a surprise team through week nine being around seven and two and looking solid. Now, I also could see the wheels falling off at that point, like the Indianapolis Colts last year. You know, everyone's like, man, this is the greatest team we've ever seen. They're breaking all of Peyton Manning's records, and then you know, injuries happen and things happen. But I also do like the Colts. I uh, you know, I love Shane Steichen and I believe in Shane Steichen. And um, but I don't know, I think the Saints could be a lot better than people are thinking they will be.

SPEAKER_01 37:58

Well, you like Kellen more, and I get that. I mean, Kellen's a Kellen's a really good football coach. I do think that we're just gonna continue to see improvement offensively now as a team. We'll see.

SPEAKER_02 38:06

But listen, um, I I just I also have a lot of I I got a lot of family in New Orleans. Um, you know, when I no, I mean, listen, if they you know they're listening to the show, I'm trying to back y'all up here. So like I need y'all to comment in the comments that like you got my back. Um, but also like when we played the New Orleans Saints, I kid you not, on my dad's side of the family. My dad's from Mississippi, family in Mississippi, Louisiana. You think like, oh, Nick's playing, you know, Larry's son, you know, family. Listen, they wanted me sacked every dang play. They wanted me ripped apart. Like, that's just fan. They, you know, they love football, but they love the Saints. It doesn't matter if family's on their side of the ball.

SPEAKER_01 38:46

You're like the average casual better when they're laying in bed like on a Sunday when they're watching a game. It's like, why do you like that team? It's like, well, I got some family in New Orleans. Oh, that that makes me feel good.

SPEAKER_02 38:54

Listen, I'm I want to be related to what's hey there. There was times like I would throw the ball to the guy. I was like, you know what? Mike, I feel like he's just I feel like he looks good right now. Like matchup wise doesn't make sense, but he's gonna make a play right here. I'm just gonna throw it in. It's like gut feel. Yeah, just gut feeling. You know, I would listen, the the first touchdown in Super Bowl 52, you know what that was? That wasn't that was a gut feel. That was not a part, that was not even a part of the play.

SPEAKER_01 39:18

Your gut feel. I remember when you guys lined up to run that play. I'm like, come on, just throw it to Alshon. That was everybody's gut feel.

SPEAKER_02 39:23

But that was double post like zebra deep cross. Like the play was supposed to go to Nelson Aguilar. Everyone's eyes are on Nelson when I launch it to um Alshon. But this is different. That was throwing the ball on a great team. I didn't always have gut feels on certain teams, but a lot of times I did.

SPEAKER_01 39:38

And then so your gut feels New Orleans. We're gonna remember that. I'm gonna jump in.

SPEAKER_02 39:41

I'm not saying New Orleans is winning the Super Bowl, but I'm saying they're gonna show glimpses to like sort of like the Colts did last year, where it's like, wait a second, the Saints are actually decent.

SPEAKER_01 39:49

But if you win, you win nine games in the NFC South. I'm talking about a division that has carried out. You're winning the NFC South. You probably win the division. When do you think they're a playoff team?

SPEAKER_02 39:57

Yeah, I mean, nine games. I mean, I would say if you win over ten games NFC South this next year.

SPEAKER_01 40:02

I think Atlanta will be solid. Atlanta will make a stride this year. Why do you think that's a hold on?

SPEAKER_02 40:08

Why do you think Atlanta's gonna be good?

SPEAKER_01 40:09

I like their coach.

SPEAKER_02 40:11

Like, explain like that's it. Just for the case.

SPEAKER_01 40:13

I like Stavansky. Well, coaching matters, right? I like Stevansky. I think they have talent on that roster, too. So you like you like you like their quarterback play with their heads? Last year, there were many times during the season when I'm watching Atlanta thinking this team is underperforming. Their their defense was actually pretty solid. They have some weapons on offense. I thought they were underperforming. Bijan Robinson's one of the best backs in the league. They will have a better, like offensively, Kevin Stefansky is a way better coach than Raheem Morris. Way better coach. You want to know why? Like, this is how dumb Cleveland is. They couldn't wait to get rid of him. They never win. They couldn't wait to get rid of him, and everybody's like, oh, bring him in. Like everybody was after Stefansky. He is a very good football coach.

SPEAKER_02 40:50

No, I agree. I I actually like Kevin.

SPEAKER_01 40:51

I think I think Atlanta probably wins.

SPEAKER_02 40:53

I actually had a phone conversation with him a couple years ago. He's asking me about a coach, and I his first time I'd spent time talking to him. We talked for like an hour, and I was very impressed with the phone conversation. And I would say this about Atlanta. I like to hire all those things, but who's your quarterback? Well, I'm I'm actually um because like quarterback play is sort of important. It's not everything, but you need a decent like quarterback that's gonna like execute at a high level. Like, is it Penix? Is it Tua?

SPEAKER_01 41:21

Well, I they're definitely not coming into is Matt Ryan gonna come out of retirement one more time and not be the president. I think it probably is Penix, right? I mean, Tua's on the roster. Uh, I'd be surprised if he's starting week one. A lot of Penix will come down to health and all that. Trevor Simeon's on there as well, but it's gonna come down to Michael Penix and Tua. Again, I think Kevin, I think Kevin Stefanski is a good football coach, and I think he's gonna get more out of Penix. I love Penix coming out of college, loved him. So I was expecting him to be a first-round pick when I was watching him in his first year at Washington. He's better than Tua. No question in my mind about as long as he's healthy. Steven, I think Kevin Stefanski makes moves with him, and I think you know, he's throwing a Drake London, Jahan Dotson, Bijan Robinson, Kyle Pitts. I mean, this is a good offense.

SPEAKER_02 42:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:02

They'll be better. It'll be tough. But this is all stemming. I didn't know we were going NFC South today. But here we go.

SPEAKER_02 42:07

They're they're better than New Orleans, they're gonna be better in New Orleans, you think?

SPEAKER_01 42:09

Yeah, I think so. We should bet on that. Who has who has more wins that next season between those two teams? I'll have to. All right, let's just I mean, I'm just let's just bet it right now. How much do you want? How random is that? Oh, Evan and Nick just laid a bet on Atlanta and New Orleans who has more wins, like the worst division in football.

SPEAKER_02 42:25

We're gonna bet it. I don't know the amount. We'll I don't know if we'll disclose the amount, but we'll bet it or we'll we'll bet something like a trip or something.

SPEAKER_01 42:31

We'll we'll disclose it later. Okay. Um, real quick though, to tie up our division talk, because I want to come back to the NFC West real quick. This was the best division in football last year, right? And everybody seemed to get better this offseason except Arizona. They still suck. But everybody else seemed to get better. Like the Rams, we just talked about how they got better, right? Now they didn't even need to do a whole lot in the draft. They took Ty Sampson, but that's because they addressed their needs through free agency and through trading. You get Trent McDuffie. Um uh why am I blanking on the guy's name in the secondary? Will you look it up for me? Just do Rams secondary. This is driving. Yeah, just keep talking and all that. I watched the kid play a bunch in college too at Washington State, and I'm totally blanking on his name. And then obviously Miles Garrett, right? The Rams are like if they they gotta get special teams right this year and not make those mistakes again. But they are dial. I can't think of a weakness. You have one of the best coaches in football, and one of the best rosters in football, and you have some of the best players in football at key positions, right? Um, Niners. So they were bit by the injury bug quite a bit last year and killed him. What's his name?

SPEAKER_02 43:30

Jalen Watson.

SPEAKER_01 43:32

Yes, Jalen Watson. Thank you. Thank you, Jimmy. That's a good addition for them. Uh the nine or the Niners, like, just simply being healthy will be nice for them. And you add Mike, uh you had Mike Evans and Christian Kirk. I think the Niners just needed more weapons. Like, yes, they weren't healthy, but like there's Christian McCaffrey just gets too many touches. Can he go another year with that mean? I don't know if he'll need to. Because now you got a true number one. Christian Christian Kirk's a good player. I love what they've done there. And then Seattle's your defending champ. Right. They lost some of their pieces, but their core is still intact, and Sam Darnold has proven that he can do this. Right. That is a really, really good division. I think it's hard to look at it. I mean, oh, the Seattle's the defending champ. You have to knock them off. I don't know if I buy that. There were times last year I thought the Rams were better, even though Seattle ended up winning it all. The Rams are the team to beat in the NFC West, especially given the moves they made, and then most recently adding Miles Garrett. This is the team to beat in the NFC West. It's really the team to beat in the NFL.

SPEAKER_02 44:28

Do the Arizona Cardinals even have a chance to get over 500 in that conference?

SPEAKER_01 44:32

No. God, no. I mean their QB room is Jacoby Brissett, Gardner Minshew, and Carson Beck, who was their third round pick. Um Carson was a solid college quarterback at best. I think maybe they land on Jacoby Brissett or Gardner Minshew. I mean, it's just it's tough, man. I mean, I love how they added Jeremiah Love. Jeremiah Love is one of the best players in college football, the running back at Notre Dame. That's who they drafted high in the first round. But Arizona, I don't even know if I'd call it rebuilding. They're just they're not even rebuilding. They're just like they're just sort of lost for the time being until they figure out what they want to do. They're not actively rebuilding yet. Adding Jeremiah Love doesn't count. He's great, but like all the other pieces, you gotta go, you're not rebuilding until you get yourself a quarterback. And they they just have no idea what they're doing in that regard. So we'll see.

SPEAKER_02 45:23

No, I agree with you. No, that's why I say I I don't see them getting over 500 this year.

SPEAKER_01 45:27

Gonna be tough.

SPEAKER_02 45:28

Yeah, gonna be tough.

SPEAKER_01 45:29

And that division, too. You got three teams that are that are all contenders.

SPEAKER_02 45:32

I mean, all three of those teams could win the Super Bowl this next year. I mean, the NFC is just so strong and it's getting stronger.

SPEAKER_01 45:37

Yeah, that that division's gonna be awesome. Um, all right, another news item of note. So Caleb Williams is gonna be on the cover of Madden 27. Caleb Williams, right? Like after a lackluster rookie season that made people think, like, oh, was this guy overrated? Another USC quarterback that's not and I watched him play a lot in college. I loved him. I was disappointed his rookie year because I'm like, God, I know he's better than this. I just like their coaching situation's not ideal. And they go get Ben Johnson, and Ben gets the most out of him. Ben was asked about it in a press conference about hey, your quarterback's on the cover of Madden. And Ben Johnson, man, I know he's got a fun side to him because we've seen it in the locker room and videos and all that. He is all business. He could not care less about it. I mean, he didn't even have fun with it. Didn't smile and laugh at yep, so it's no comment. Let's move on. They're like, okay. And then like two minutes later, Nick, this is in this it's June 3rd, right? We're we're approaching, like, there is no bigger dead period in football than like July. It's like everyone's like asleep, basically, right? Like the team, the teams have all gone home, everyone's partying for a month before the season starts. Or shouldn't say that, but everyone's on vacation for a month before the season. They're having a good time before training can. Everyone looks forward to July, right? He's got these days, people don't have recorders, they have cell phones. Like that the reporters during the press conference put their cell phone up on the podium to record what he's saying instead of like the old school recorders. And one of the one of the cell phones rings. It's got like an audible ringtone. Like, by the way, who does that anymore? An audible ringtone. And it starts ringing, and Ben Johnson stops and he's pissed. Does not think it's funny, and finally he goes, Does anyone want to come? Uh or he picks the phone up, hands it to his assistant. You want to get this out of here before this thing rings again? And like he is very tense, pissed off, not smiling, and everyone in the room is just kind of like, geez, dude, it's like it's June, and the phone rang during a press conference. He's all business. So I'm watching this thing. I'm like, I love Ben Johnson though.

SPEAKER_02 47:32

I love man, I think that'd be such a funny prank if a player or like the franchise, like knowing he reacts that way. Like it actually had like Caleb call, or like maybe like Ben Johnson has like a you know, an actor or a fan or whatever, like that he just loves or whatever it is, and just puts it up there and like it rings and pisses him off, but like he has to answer it, and they're like, No, you have to answer this call, and he's got to answer it during his press conference and just see what happens. Like, I feel like that'd be a pretty good, I'm just throwing that out into the universe. I think that'd be a really good prank in the offseason. Um, I love that he's intense, I love that he's like locked in. I think that's huge. I think what happens a lot of times when you have success is there's complacency. We've all seen it with the case.

SPEAKER_01 48:14

I think he's guarding against us.

SPEAKER_02 48:16

Listen, like you go play golf, like you and I know this. We talk a little golf, you have a couple good holes, you're like, oh, I got it. Complacency sets in, and all of a sudden, like you hit a ball out of bounds. You then try to hit another one, it goes out of bounds. You're like, what the heck? And it's just you weren't locked in. Now, golf's different because then, like I said the other day, I had a great round going, and then my takeaway's off. So that's why I've been working on my takeaway for consistency. But I think right now the fact that he's locked in, but he's got to have a little fun, man. Like, but don't do a little bit in the office.

SPEAKER_01 48:45

To me, like his answer, being real serious about the Madden cover question. To me, Ben Johnson has initiated this mode of guarding against what you're saying, exactly what you said, complacency. I think he's speaking to his players with his answer, not to media. For sure. He's speaking to his players saying, guys, this is how I've already been saying it in our meeting room, and I'm gonna say it now. This is how we process this stuff. Because here's the thing that he has to deal with this year. He's got to prove last year was real, not fluky, because they did win a lot of close games, right? That you think how quickly that thing can turn if all of a sudden they have a couple key turnovers, like they want a ton of close games from behind, too. Yeah, so he's got to deal now. This and people forget that quick. All they do is know, oh, the bears are good. That's all people remember. They forget all the things, all the other ways they were good. And so you you realize when you take a harder look at the bears, it's delicate, it's fragile for the time being. And so he's got to guard against expectations now. And now players kind of seeing, like, yeah, yeah, man, we're about to be good, man. We won this division, we won this division last year, we're good. And he's got to guard against that, being like, you know how close we were to being like out of the playoffs last year based on how many close games we had and how many breaks we needed. And so I it got me thinking too, in that same vein, what does success look like for Caleb Williams this year? I'm not gonna go into statistically what success looks like, because that's a different discussion. Generally speaking, to me, Nick, what it looks like, and I want to know what you think about this, compare and contrast to his college career and his first year in the league. First year in the league, he was sacked 68 times. Not all his fault, but part of it was his fault. Not all the offensive line's fault because sometimes Caleb holds on to the ball too long. But if you look at his college career and his first year, a lot of mistakes, and just a little too much of a gunslinger, getting out of the pocket too much of it. I think the best thing Caleb can do. This is all relative. This is a bad thing for some players, but it's good for Caleb. It's played boring football. If you can get Caleb Williams to stay in the pocket, stay disciplined, and use his escape ability when he needs it and not try to be Superman like every other play and get himself into trouble, if you can get him thinking boring football, because for him that boring is still on like the exciting side of the spectrum, right? For some players, you tell him that it's like, oh my God, check down every single play. This isn't gonna work, right? But for Caleb, if you can get in his mind we are going to play boring disciplined football, his version of that I think has a chance to really propel him into superstardom. He already did a lot for it last year on the cover of Madden for Crying Out, that made some unbelievable plays. But if you continue to be bent, like if you're Ben Johnson, you continue to work on getting him to play within the system and within that structure and really buy into that like Ben did last year. I think there's no telling what this kid's capable of. So for me, ironically, sarcastically, the answer is like play boring, play boring football. The best thing you can do.

SPEAKER_02 51:29

And what listeners need to realize, what what I've saying is boring football is just playing within the offense, uh how it's designed to be ran. Um when everything's going well. Um and that's what Ben Johnson wants. That's why he had success in Detroit. Jared Goff is fantastic, one of the best in the league at playing like boring football, but he does it, he plays within the confines of the offense. He can't do what Caleb Williams does, you know, running around and making all that magic. He still can do things like that, but just not like Caleb can. But if Caleb Caleb can play within the structure of the offense, what I'm talking about is like, all right, we had to play, you know, gunship, try three jet, all go special. Everyone's running a vertical, the inside verticals based on coverages, you know, change their routes a little bit. But if you have cover three, um, you can look it up, or if you play Madden, you know what I'm talking about. You're gonna go two on one on the you know, safety, the center safety, down to your back. Hey, it's cover two. Well, you know, number two, you know, number two receiver is gonna probably have a bender, or sometimes, you know, number three goes up and does like a nod off the mic down to your back. Hey, cover four, I'm probably gonna signal a route outside, probably throw a little, you know, hit uh hitch route or a comeback, whatever. So, what I'm saying is that's the way the offense is the design to be ran. What he does sometimes is drop back real quick and then run around and make plays. Like just play the offense like it should. And then if a DN somehow does a spin move, comes underneath, forces you out of the pocket, do your thing. Like make a play, run for the first down, throw on the run, do those things, but do what you can to play within the structure of the offense as long as you can and let the brilliant magical plays happen. Don't force them.

SPEAKER_01 53:12

Good point.

SPEAKER_02 53:12

That's what Evan's saying. And that is that is what is called great football. Aaron Rodgers was really good at that, right? Probably.

SPEAKER_01 53:18

You can still be exciting and electric within that system, but I want him thinking, I want him thinking boring is my point.

SPEAKER_02 53:24

I mean, you're gonna be aggressive within the concept, right? Like all go special is a big play. Like, that's a great play. You're gonna try to hit a seam route, you're gonna maybe throw a go versus you know, cover one man press coverage, you're taking a shot downfield. It's a big play. You know, if you do the scissors concept, all right, we're you know, high low on the flat defender with that, the corner route in the flat, or maybe cover four, we're taking a poster. Those are huge plays. Stay within it, but then it's like don't drop back and just check the ball down. There's a lot of quarterbacks that do that. Hey, drop uh, check it down, drop back, check it down.

SPEAKER_01 53:54

I also know Caleb would never do that anyway. So I'm not afraid. If I'm the quarterback coach, I'm not afraid on the whiteboard in every meeting room to put Caleb for playing boring football. Because I'm not worried about Caleb. Like, he's not going to check it down every play. I know, I know who I'm working with. You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_02 54:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 54:09

But I need him to err on the side of staying within the structure like he did last year. Nick, they have the hardest schedule in the league this year. This is like, okay, like aside from in it, or I should say, in addition to like the Eagles, the Rams, and the Packers are three teams that I love watching play. And I can't wait to watch them this year. There's great storylines around these teams. I would throw the Bears in that mix as well as a team that I am extremely excited to watch play this year because I don't know what's going to happen. I love how expectations are high. They have Caleb, they have a great football coach, but this year's gonna be different, dude. They they were they were living on the edge and playing with some magic many times last year, and now the schedule's more difficult. This is a big prove-it year for the Bears. Really big.

SPEAKER_02 54:52

No, I agree. I was just getting my our new little camera to track me at it when I was flaring flailing my hands everywhere, it shut off the tracking mode.

SPEAKER_01 55:00

Same with me, it lost me as well.

SPEAKER_02 55:01

But uh, what a great camera. So upgraded fans didn't notice. We upgraded our camera system a little bit. Year two, a lot of upgrades. Um, but no, I I you know what I think the Bears, you know, it's big for their franchise, right? You know, having a quarterback that can do what Caleb can do, having a head coach that um, you know, coaches like Ben Johnson does offensively, and then uh having what Dennis Allen as the defensive coordinator, having a guy like that on the other side of the ball um is huge. So I mean they're they're primed and ready for this year. And uh, it sounds like you know, everything they're locked in and ready to go. And I know Bears fans are excited about that.

SPEAKER_01 55:37

Yeah, sounds like Henry's ready for the season, too. Um so side note before we let everybody go, uh other news this week, the NFL's unbelievable. Here we're here we are in June, and like you're just getting this in like it's the middle of the NBA finals, right? Like I'm watching the New York Knicks and Jalen Brunson, my favorite player in the league. Um and and we're still talking all these crazy NFL breaking stories, which is amazing. Um, I wouldn't put this in that boat, but this is still fun. Uh so Russell Wilson, 14-year NFL career, decides to call it quits. He's confirmed on his social media and said, Thank you, football, I'm out. What's he gonna do? He's gonna join CBS. Why? Because there's a chair in the studio with James Brown, Nate Burleson, Bill Cower that has been vacated by Matt Ryan. And Russell Wilson's gonna step into that chair. All right, now that has been polarizing for some because I think, look, being calling games and being in studio and and getting people to like you is really difficult. Like you're inevitably when you're in broadcasting, some people hate you, they think you suck. Like there's people that don't like Chris Collinsworth. I think he's great, he's a super nice guy and he's very enjoyable. Some people hate him. Like it's a very it's just everyone has their own like food. Everyone, oh, I don't like pizza or I like this. Broadcasting is tough because people, there's no there's no recipe or exact formula to being good at it. People just like you or they don't. Russell's an interesting character, he's polarizing because sometimes Russell can come across as a robot, and it's hard to know if he's being authentic, right? That was the that's been the criticism of Russell for a long time. I play with Russell for a year. I like Russ. I think he's a good dude. But I think sometimes it is hard for people to relate to him. So I wonder from a from a me from a media standpoint how much authenticity are we gonna get from him, right? Not so much like being a robot and talking about like how authentic are you willing to be? That's the question. Can he be authentic? Nick, yes or no? Russell Wilson becomes a very good broadcaster and ends up doing it for a long time, and people enjoy listening to him.

SPEAKER_02 57:34

True or false? If I had to choose one, I would say yes. Um, yeah, I I agree with the authentic part with speaking and all those things. I think he's a great dude, all that. But I do think authenticity coming across authentic is important. Um, he's very polished, I would say, in his speaking. Um, everything he does, he's very polished. He's very trained. He's had a lot of reps of it. Mr. Unlimited Will will that come now? I I think he'll have success. I think he's he's trained. Uh, you know, he's always spoken um really well throughout his uh interviews when he's a place quarterback and everything he does. Um I think he'll I think he'll succeed. I think he'll do a nice job. And it I think the authenticity is something that listen, he's gonna have a team around him that shares, like, hey, this is where people think your flaws are. Let's try to like, you know, even having humor at yourself or making fun of yourself, like you know, that's relatable. Like, you know, when he was in Denver and he said, Let's ride, like having fun with that, right? Um, those are things that he's gonna be able to prepare for, and his team's gonna share with him, like, hey, this is where you can be better, just like Tom Brady, right? Like, Tom's got a team around him that after they invested a lot of money in him, right? Um, so they they have a team around Tom that's telling him every game how he can get better, what he needs to do, and Tom's diligent with his methods and his training, and he's progressing. Is he Greg Olsen? No, Greg's like brilliant, like Greg's natural, Greg's authentic. That's why they love him. He he he speaks about the game well. Um, really, probably the best broadcaster out there.

SPEAKER_01 59:13

Quarterbacks and tight ends.

SPEAKER_02 59:14

Yeah, quarterbacks and tight ends. So no, I think he'll succeed. It'll be interesting though, because you know, I think the fact that he's like in the booth sitting in a chair is a little bit different. You know, is are they saying he's gonna broadcast games too?

SPEAKER_01 59:24

I have not heard anything about games yet. Yeah, that's different, but that that could easily be in the mix. Who knows? Yeah, but no, it'll be fun to see. It takes reps and and look, you mentioned Tom Brady, like coming out because the Patriot way is so scripted to the media. Yeah, uh, I'm just gonna be honest, as a as a player, I never found Tom to be all that interesting in his interviews. I thought it was um very surface level, very hard to relate to him. I mean, obviously, I want it one of if not if not the greatest player of all time, but I never watched interviews when he was a player. And I think this is largely a function of being playing for the Patriots and being trained by Belichick on how to deal with the media in the whole Patriot way. So it's not his fault. It's just I think that was just the name of the game. He was a company guy, right? But I never thought he was that interesting. I like I never once would listen, would see an interview of Tom Brady and unmute the TV to hear what he has to say because I'm like, I already know what he's gonna say, it's not interesting, right? Fast forward to broadcasting, I thought it would be the same issue. I I'm like, I don't know if he's gonna be any good. I don't know if I'm gonna get any honesty and authenticity out of out of out of Tom Brady. In in now that we're beyond the first year, I think Tom Brady is really good. And part of the reason I think he's really good, and I realize people may disagree with this, part of the reason I think he's really good is usually when guys are that accomplished and that have have made that much money playing the game and they don't need it. And it shows in their effort, it shows in their preparation, it show it shows that they don't need it and they don't pursue it. But you can tell with the way Tom broadcasts that he is wired in a way where obviously Mike's got more money than he or Tom's got more money than he could ever imagine, but Tom is wired in a way that anything he approaches, he does it with everything he's got. And I see it in broadcasting, and to be honest with you, I appreciate it. Yeah because there's plenty of guys that like roll in off and just go off their name and they're terrible and they're boring and it's not interesting to listen to them. Tom brings good insight, and I can tell he prepares. For a guy that has seven Super Bowl rings and has made ungodly amounts of money to really dig in and take the time to do production meetings and all that. I think it's super impressive because I've done it before, I've called games, it's hard, it's not sexy. And Tom is doing it, and you're like, man, this dude is really good at this. I think he's gotten much better too. I enjoy listening to him.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:33

Well, he grinds at it, right? I mean, you see the footage of him like preparing. Um, like I said, they have a team around him, like he wants to be great. Like he does, he he he has that in him. Anything he touches, anything he does, whether it's like a trading card vault store, like he wants to be there, he wants to open it, he wants it to be great. Um, whatever he's doing, he wants to be great, you know, professionally.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:52

So it's pretty won't do it.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:54

Yeah, and uh, you know, the Patriot Way is a really great thing. I uh the funny thing is there's a former college teammate of mine, and I was just thinking about it. I was like, did Rob Grunkowski miss the Patriot Way meetings?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:07

Well, yeah, I mean he's done he's he's got such a strong personality.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:11

The Patriot way can't, you know, do anything to Rob's personality. He's been the same way since college, and I I love and respect him, man. What an amazing career all those guys have. I mean, listen, like Russell, Tom, Rob, I mean, outstanding. Um, and I'm excited. Like, you know, Russell, congratulations on an awesome, amazing Hall of Fame type career. I wish you the best in the future in everything you do. That's awesome, man.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:36

10 Pro Bowls, one Super Bowl ring. I mean, it's easy to remember. Yeah, it's easy to remember Russell Wilson for Denver and having 85 million of dead cap hit when he left Denver and people thinking it was a joke. But it and it's it's it's you got to dig a little deeper and remember how good this this guy was when he was in Seattle. I mean, it was unreal. I think he's a Hall of Fame player, and it'll be interesting to see where this thing goes and if he's good at broadcasting, because uh we'll get a chance to hear from him a lot on CBS. But anyway, that's episode 44. Um, we are shooting we're early June, still a couple, a couple months away from training camp and all the stuff that'll get really interesting, but we'll keep throwing these episodes at you as we go. And if you take the time to listen, I can't tell you how much we appreciate it. As always, have a good day.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:16

Bye.