How to get rid of a semi

You have a semi and you want to lose it - how do you do it ? 

Did we all think it may just been coming home ? 

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:12

Welcome back to That Was the World Cup. Thanks for listening. See you soon. Oh Nigge. Just saying, like if we recorded it last night, you'd have been cancelled. I'd have been cancelled. We'd have sacked the manager. It's just all gone to shit, hasn't it? Really?

SPEAKER_00 0:28

But honestly, mate, I was so gutted on the way home. Absolutely gutted. And um uh I just feel like it's a proper missed opportunity. I mean, clearly, obviously it is. We're in a semi-final, but our best chance in 60 years, and you know what? I've praised him quite a lot this tournament, Thomas Tuchel. But what he did yesterday, after we went a goal up, we just handed them the game at the end, and I just think it comes down to the manager, I'm afraid.

SPEAKER_01 0:58

I always think like when you're doing a podcast or something, you don't want to be an echo chamber of what you've heard on Sky Sports News, on uh the BBC, on Talk Sport, on Five Live. But I agree with everything that everybody has said. When we scored, Gordon scored absolutely lovely ball from Morgan Rogers, brilliant, we're one-nil up. I just knew what was gonna happen. I mean, I just even before the subs, I just knew what was gonna happen because we're looking at the stats beforehand. We did the whole thing about the Norway game of how are we gonna stop Haaland, and Haaland didn't really show up and like you know, it might have been L or whatever, but he didn't really show up and they took him off in extra time. But last night it was all about how do we stop Messi and looking at the stats, and he doesn't run anymore, but he's you know he's involved with more goals, you see what he does and everything like that, and he wasn't really that much in the game. I mean, if you'd have said to me, Who's your worldie in here? you wouldn't have been looking at uh Messi going, Oh, he's the lad, and obviously you wouldn't have known he was like 39 or whatever he is. I I think we just cut to it straight away. We go 1-0 up, and then the substart.

SPEAKER_00 2:00

We have been in a situation before where he's made the changes and it's properly paid off, all right? Dan Byrne and Nico O'Reilly, both great players, but I just I just think one of them to toughen up the defence, make a change up front, bring Marcus Rashford on, or where is Saka? What the hell is going on there? Clearly not fit because you listen, Morgan Rogers is a great player, but you don't start Morgan Rogers if Saka is fit, do you? So why come out in the press conference and say everyone's fit apart from Henderson? It's just nonsense.

SPEAKER_01 2:36

Here's a subs 72 minutes, Conza on for Gordon. I mean, that was the one that instantly the momentum shifted, didn't it? I put a thing on uh Twitter and Instagram, it's Dan Byrne Time, 82 minutes. Dan Byrne comes on for Reese James, who looked like he'd picked up another injury. O'Reilly for Rice, 82 minutes, once again there, and then the panic stations of Rashford for Spence and Tony for Stones at 96 minutes. Now, he was forced to do it from Mexico because we're down to 10 men and it was backs against the wall, wasn't it? And Dan Byrne was playing, you know, League Two, Sunday League stuff, and that's what he does and does it brilliantly. If you didn't know Thomas Tuchel, you would go, This is a guy who's been at Division 4 in Germany. This is not one of the best and experienced managers in the world. This is somebody who's got into a Champions League semi-final for the very first time and shit the bed. It's it's David Moyes, isn't it? Yeah. The positive takeout of it, before this tournament, I think everybody was saying Jed Spence, really? Jed Spence, I thought, was phenomenal last night. Absolutely phenomenal. In man of the match.

SPEAKER_00 3:43

Especially, especially first half. He was he was just outstanding, and that tackle was as good as any tackle you'll have seen in the World Cup. Honestly, mate, I'm getting wound up again.

SPEAKER_01 3:54

But we're gonna say look, where there's a blame, there's a claim, and all this stuff. Where is your blame? Is your blame with the players? Is your blame solely with Thomas Tuchel? We can't complain about the heat, we can't complain about the rain, we can't complain this, you know, a bad pitch or whatever it is. Is it, which I I believe, it was the really amateur substitutions? And that we say it's worked for him before, but this is not what an elite top, top, top three manager in the world does.

SPEAKER_00 4:21

The other thing is, as well, that those were the changes that you make if you're two goals up and you want to try and shut, shut everything out. That's what you do when you're two goals up, not when you're one goal up, very frustrating first half as well. I mean, they were falling over for everything, they were really thuggy.

SPEAKER_01 4:40

They were thuggy, but they were Argentina and you expected that. And also, an American refs are straight away. I'm saying to the missus, look, I mean, this is got this has got to be bent, is it? Uh you know, because you've got the excuse in there straight away. This is gonna be bent. They were putting tackles in left, right, and centre, and then suddenly, oh, uh Ellie Anderson gets a yellow card. Where's that come from?

SPEAKER_00 5:01

That pissed me off as well, because there was a there was a fair few uh challenges ahead of that where he didn't even reach into his pocket for a yellow card. Uh, and then you know, as soon as he got that opportunity, it's like he was dying to book him. Oh, right. I don't know. I don't I don't know what happens now, mate. I don't know what happens. I don't know if you keep him, Thomas Touchel. I mean, who is the who is the better? I mean, everyone's gonna say Pep. Pep's just finished. But but if he he can still have some time off, he's got two years there till the next tournament. So maybe you do try and get a Pep Guadiola. Would he be interested in doing it? I mean, I know the Euros is in the UK as well, so you know, then you've got another World Cup. Maybe Pep would would be would be interested. I mean, it'd be amazing to have him there. I think the footballer would be much, much better, and I think he would go for it.

SPEAKER_01 5:47

FA won't sack Thomas Touchwork. He's he's one of those that'll go of his own accord, won't he? He's he's not gonna get sacked, he's got a contract up until uh the Euros anyway. I mean, look, Harry Kane will probably just scrape the Euros, won't he? And Henderson will be finished, even though we've not really seen him, but he's good. He's Connect 4 champion with Ivan Tony and um and Cobbie Maynu. Uh good good of him to go out there, won't it? And also, I didn't even I I forgot. We called up Chalabar. Was he even there?

SPEAKER_00 6:14

It's just weird, and it's like I mean, when you go back now and think about it, uh there's been some stupid decisions. We're talking like the World Cup's over. 10 pm, Saturday. We've got a huge game against France. You you tell me, right, you you tell me, is there A, any anyone asked?

SPEAKER_01 6:32

B, he's gonna end up an ITV seven or something, isn't it? Or you know, BBC six. It's the only competition in the world where you can lose and still finish um fourth. I mean, no one's no one's asked about that. But right.

SPEAKER_00 6:46

Pubs have stayed up late for the football in the World Cup. I think they're gonna shut early for the third, fourth place playoff.

SPEAKER_01 6:51

When he brings on Nicole Riley, who's who's one of yours, and he's had a half-decent tournament. I like him, right? Uh he's got what, 20 years on Messi, maybe? Maybe probably even more. I don't know how old he is. Uh 20 years on Messi. When he came on, we knew we know what Messi's doing. He's staying out wide, he's popping them lovely balls into the box uh when the third Martinez comes on the pitch, right? You know it's gonna be happening like this. So you just need to stay with Messi here. Stay out wide with Messi and keep him out of the game because that is what they're gonna do to get a goal.

SPEAKER_00 7:23

Who's marking Martinez? Well, he's just all on his own in the middle. It was just absolutely crazy. Let's just for a second though, obviously. I know you mentioned Anthony Gordon's goal, and it was a great ball from Morgan Rogers, which was brilliant. But Enzo Fernandez, where's this come from when he puts an Argentinian shirt on? What a goal that was, by the way.

SPEAKER_01 7:45

Maybe somebody as tall as Donna Rummer or even you know Emmy Martinez mayor got glove to it.

SPEAKER_00 7:50

They were both amazing finishes, to be honest, as sick as I am saying that. Jordan Pitford's had a pretty good tournament. There's been a good few uh positives in this England squad. I know you mentioned Jed Spence. I just thought, what's the point of this? And uh he you know, he was he was great.

SPEAKER_01 8:05

Do you know what? Well, when when when he was on, genuinely I asked Chat GPT if he had the same agent because you know we've done that, we've done that before, haven't we? Where randoms have gone, it turns out we've got the same agent, or we go back even further to the Sven days when we took um Walcott, Walcott, yeah, Theo Walcott. And and you're looking going right, there's there's been some sort of dodgy deal done here or something, or you expect that because why is he going and not playing? Jed Spence. I mean, his stock's risen massively, hasn't it?

SPEAKER_00 8:33

Definitely, 100%. I do think that he he had a pretty good game as well, uh Pickford. I thought he made a wonderful save in the first half as well, a brilliant save, and he uh another couple in the second half. I I do think that uh depending on what happens with his future, James Trafford could become England's number one for a good few years. Uh he is a quality keeper. If you menu, what are you thinking at the minute after that? It's just weird, isn't it? I you know what I'd love. You will never ever know the answer to this. But if Thomas Tuchel could pick his squad again, in hindsight now, who he would have took and who he wouldn't have took from his original squad. Do you get me?

SPEAKER_01 9:12

The way it was working, because I like I like playing with the wingers, I like I like seeing that, and it's sort of it's sort of a dying art, isn't it? I mean, he had the four, didn't he, which he was swapping around. So you had what, Saka, Gordon, Madweki, yeah, Madweki. And the thing, the thing was, it was like they were all like for like. So if one wasn't performing, like for example, yesterday, I would have presumed if Gordon wasn't performing, Saka would have been on. And they've all had good periods and not so good periods in the World Cup, and that's what I thought he was doing. But he he went like he'd never been at this level before, and you've got to look at it really. But apart from Mexico and an aging Croatia, we haven't really played anybody that's that good, and then as soon as we get to somebody, and we said at the start this is an aging side, isn't it? And as soon as we play them, I mean, what would have happened if we'd have played against Spain in the final? I mean, it's a dry bumming.

SPEAKER_00 10:04

Yeah, we'd have got absolutely dicks, won't we? Uh 100%. One last thing, I know I just mentioned this before, but we never really talked about it properly. Is Saka injured? Different levels. Saka's an absolute different level above, isn't he? You know, Eze has been a bit disappointing in this tournament, if I'm honest. Um I I don't think we got a lot from him. Uh, he just obviously not had many opportunities. Rashford started well, but again, it's not really worked out. This is again where you look at the players that he missed out, like your Fodens and your Palmers, and start thinking, you know, surely that was a better option than some of these other players that are in our squad.

SPEAKER_01 10:45

Yeah, I mean, Saka, they have mentioned that he's got the Achilles uh problem, and he's he he could play, but he's not 100% fit, and it might have been old school injections or something, you know, and that's just just the rumours. Declan Rice, I mean, it was always a plan uh against Norway that he was gonna play that first half or whatever, but you could tell from them first two corners, they were Arsenal corners. That wasn't the Declan Rice that has been phenomenal this year. That was uh, oh, I'm really not well. He played him, he sacrificed him. But towards the end, the subs for me, uh it comes back to this. And and the very first one, bringing Conza on, invited Argentina. Now, imagine imagine me, you and a couple of mates are playing for Argentina, and we'd be there going bricking it, Erin's bricking it, right? If we just inviting it on, like, come on then, come on, and this is what they've done. They've just given you, you know, we've just given Argentina a little poke and gone, right? Here we go then.

SPEAKER_00 11:35

Exactly. It's big damn burn. The three substitutions, three defensive changes. Here you go. Come on, uh, listen, I know we score, but there's the ball. Come on, get too quickly. Yeah, come on, there's the ball again, get another.

SPEAKER_01 11:48

We've not done player ratings, and I'm just gonna give you the name.

SPEAKER_00 11:51

Is this for uh that game for the tournament?

SPEAKER_01 11:55

Just for that game last night, Pickford. I will give a seven. I'll give a seven as well. Reese James. I love Reese James, and we talked about him lately. I thought he was probably a five. Yeah, I'd I'd I'd probably I might stretch to a six. John Stones, by the way, he's still a free agent, which which I find absolutely mental.

SPEAKER_00 12:16

There were moments there. I mean, I I love John Stones. I I think seven for John Stones.

SPEAKER_01 12:20

I'll give a seven as well. Mark Gay, six, maybe five point five. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:26

Jed Spence? I'd probably give him an eight or a nine, maybe a nine. I thought he was outstanding to be honest, especially in the first half. There were moments in that game, for me, he was the man of the match. I know he didn't play the full 90, but I'm gonna give him a nine because I think he was brilliant.

SPEAKER_01 12:43

Yeah, I'll give him a nine as well. Declan Rice, again, if he doesn't turn up, it's all over.

SPEAKER_00 12:48

Yeah, I mean, four or five for Rice, unfortunately. I know he was injured, or well, he was ill. Only I'll say four, but the only reason I'm saying four is because of how good he can be and how good he wasn't. So four for me.

SPEAKER_01 13:03

I'll get five. Uh Elliot Anderson.

SPEAKER_00 13:06

Probably five. Is he?

SPEAKER_01 13:08

I mean, what would he pay for him? 116 million. He wasn't showing that last night. He's a he's a good player, though. He's a really good player.

SPEAKER_00 13:14

He is, he does his job. He's not gonna, you know what I mean? He I mean, I know he's he does score goals and he gets assists and things, and uh, he's got so many great passes on him. He's a I I I I think uh but yesterday, yeah, probably a six or a five. He wasn't, he wasn't again, if you we know how good he is.

SPEAKER_01 13:32

But Jude Bellingham won at the races, was he?

SPEAKER_00 13:35

It was just frustrating, wasn't it? It was frustrating, but yeah, again, like four or five.

SPEAKER_01 13:41

Yeah, Morgan Rogers. Now, an interesting choice to start. That was, and I keep going back to it, it was a beautiful ball to uh Gordon, and that's not an easy finish, as well.

SPEAKER_00 13:52

Um Morgan Rogers, probably a six.

SPEAKER_01 13:55

Yeah, yeah, I think I've got maybe a seven. I mean, all right again.

SPEAKER_00 13:58

I I the thing is as well, I just this is this is what I mean. This is the frustrating thing. Well, Morgan Rogers, Madaway K, both you know, starting on that side ahead of Saka. He must be absolutely crocked. I know I've said that a lot, but it's just it's it's nuts.

SPEAKER_01 14:14

Two more, Anthony Gordon. First half, he was probably like an eight. Alright, and finally, uh Harry Kane.

SPEAKER_00 14:21

He just didn't get much service, did he? He didn't get many opportunities. Um, probably probably a seven.

SPEAKER_01 14:27

Really? I was getting five, maybe four. Yeah. There was there was not in there for me. I mean, it was bitterly disappointing. Now, if we'd have held on, and it's all this sort of stuff about if we'd have done this, if we'd have done this, if we'd have done this, right? And you were saying before something similar about if you could change his team now, right? If we'd have held on at 1-0 and done a performance like against Mexico, right, and we get in the final, is Thomas Tuchel not a genius, and that's all we were missing for all these years. We've always had the managers he's never heard of, managers on the way down, managers on the way up, like for example, Southgate. Southgate did a great job of getting all the lads together, playing nicely, uh, going back to hotel rooms, phoning their wife, girlfriend, boyfriend, whatever, all three maybe, getting the wives and kids on FaceTime and playing Connect 4 and going to bed and drinking water and doing all that stuff and being really nice and media trained. Did all that and the performances were half decent. But this guy was meant to come in, Thomas Tukal, and take us to the next level. And I thought he was gonna do. So back to that point after that ramble, if we'd have got through, if it had worked, and we had won 1-0, is he a genius?

SPEAKER_00 15:40

Yeah. I suppose everyone just goes, just as long as we get the result, it don't matter how we play, let's just get to the final, blah blah blah. Listen, there were there were moments, mate, in this in this World Cup. He was brilliant and he made some incredible decisions. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, like that that actually changed and worked for him. I just can't understand why in uh a semi-final of the World Cup you would make the changes that he made. As we've mentioned, just invite Argentina to have attack after attack after attack. We had hardly any possession from scoring the goal uh to the end of the game. It honestly was ridiculous, it was just an absolute battering. It was Tuchel's fault. It was he made the wrong decisions.

SPEAKER_01 16:25

99.9% of people listening or or ever seen a football match would completely agree. Who do you think would be more pissed off? Would it be the England team or the France team? Because if I was a France fan, watching that game against Spain, they'd looked so good throughout the tournament. They were just not at it at all.

SPEAKER_00 16:46

I've not seen Rodery perform like that for since way before his ACL, right? Like he was, and I know there was a few more than just him, but it was a masterclass from Rodery. He was absolutely insane, and no city are trying to get him to sign a new deal. Uh, Real Madrid will be all over him after that performance. Obviously, he's gonna play in the final as well. He's looking like the Roderick of old, and I don't think there is a better player in his position still in the world when he is firing. He's outstanding, and uh Spain drew the first game, didn't they? It was like, what's happening to Spain? Look at them now, they're a different team, and when you look at the bench and the players that they're bringing on, they've got by far the best squad in this competition. France were outstanding up until this game, but they got absolutely hammered by Spain, and it wasn't just how shit France played, it was how good Spain played as well.

SPEAKER_01 17:49

Totally agree with Rodery as well, and you know, I I spent the whole season saying to you that he's off at the end of the season and he's off to Real Madrid, and you're shut up. Pep's going, no, he's not, shut up. You're getting relegated next season, shut up, you're getting Enzo Moresca, shut up, but it's all coming to plan. I mean, look, we will get back to um our bread and butter, which is this is the season. You know, I'm a United fan, a passionate United fan, and Nigel lives, shits, breathes, right? So we'll get back to this. And I took no pleasure, honestly, as a United fan, watching the downfall of Liverpool after Klopp went. I will take no pleasure in watching the downfall of City from next season. And this is even before we started on the 115 outstanding charges.

SPEAKER_00 18:31

Um we will win the league next year. We will win the league next year, and we will finish higher than you.

SPEAKER_01 18:39

100%. Do you know what? And you might call me stupid, are you? I've had a cheeky 20 quid on Tottenham.

SPEAKER_00 18:44

What, to win the league? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:45

Oh Lord is shot.

SPEAKER_00 18:47

I if like I think honestly, Arsenal are gonna be back up there. We'll do an episode, like you said, very soon. But I I think that Chelsea are gonna be a force as long as they keep Ode Benzo for now. I think they've got a decent manager, I think they've they they're getting rid of players that they don't need, like you get Achos, etc. I also think that City are gonna have a good season, and I reckon we'll be challenging again. I I think a lot of people are gonna be very surprised at how competitive City are again challenging for a title next year.

SPEAKER_01 19:15

Well, I predicted uh Man United would finish second last last year, right at the start of the season. And I remember the title of the podcast was Joel, you are deluded. We finished third, so it wasn't too far away. But I think that Chelsea and Spurs will have that season that United had because look, you're playing one game every four months, aren't you? Yeah, and you've got a decent squad there, you've got time to heal, you've got that. If I'm at another club, I'm watching Spurs sign some of these players, and I'm going, what, they're dropping a hundred million on Tanali, and you're going, they'll be a decent side. And I'm sure a lot of those players are in there to get at least top four for Champions League next season. I mean, there's a mass extras from Newcastle for a start. Yuri Tillemans going from Villa to Man United for what 30 odd million. They get him on a free, but due to these PSR, they had to sell him, so that's 32 million profit on him. He's a good player. He's a good signing. Yeah, he is he's a decent player. He really is. He's not a marquee signing. A lot of United fans are kicking off about your man that we signed from Chelsea, who they bought for 12 million quid and flogged into us for 50 million quid and he can't get a game. Man United will not go down this route now, spending all this money and the wages on these players. We're getting into next week's content. So let's forget all of that. I know he's trying to get us away from the World Cup. Yes or no, does Thomas Tuchel be the manager for Euro 2028?

SPEAKER_00 20:38

It depends on Pep. If Pep is available, then I think he will get the job. I also think Thomas Tuchel might quit after the France game. I've got a feeling he might quit. I think he might hand in his notice and just say, right, okay, I've I've I've failed. I do think that he's a great manager. I think obviously very disappointed. Uh, but I personally feel like it just depends. If it's not a pep, who is it? Let's be honest. And we don't want to go back down that Southgate route or someone who's in charge of the under-21s. We need a proper manager, but who's available?

SPEAKER_01 21:17

Yeah, no, Amarin's been um sorted, hasn't he? So he's got it. For God's sake. Rude Van Nessel Roy. For God's sake. Honestly. I thought I think I think he'll be there, and I think he'd want to make amends. We've got a good chance of winning it. It's pretty much gonna be the same team as we've got now, with maybe um Rio at uh Liverpool maybe popping in there as well. Uh a couple of young, lively kids coming through, but I think it'll be pretty much the same. The the the question mark for me is gonna be Pickford. Is this manager gonna bring Trafford in now and get him ready for the next World Cup? Or has Pickford got you know one euro in him? Who is the replacement for Harry Kane? Because there isn't anybody that I can I can see. Who's your man who uh Man United wanted who went to Chelsea? Liam DeLapp, right? You know, Rory's son, who uh Rory's lad. Rory's lad. You know Rory, Rory from Stokes lad. Rory's lad. Now, I know I know he was injured, but he, you know, everybody was scared, oh, he's he's he's your next hundred million pound player and all that sort of stuff. Ollie Watkins, nah? Ivan Tony?

SPEAKER_00 22:23

Uh yeah, it's it's tough. It is tough. There'll be someone coming through. Uh we've got two years, someone will burst onto the scene like Mika Richards did. I don't know who the striker's gonna be. I'd be very surprised if he's not there for the Euros. We'll be singing someone else's name for the World Cup, that's for sure. He's not surely he's not gonna be starting Harry Kane. Uh he can't be in four years' time.

SPEAKER_01 22:44

Right, let's be honest, no one's asked about who finishes third and fourth, so there'll be no podcast from uh what a great game that was. Who wins the World Cup, Nigel?

SPEAKER_00 22:51

Spain? I think Spain, but I don't know. I just think there's something about this Argentina team where they just they're just getting results, they really are, and the referees love them, FIFA love them.

SPEAKER_01 23:03

Messi. Where do you get the Balland duel?

SPEAKER_00 23:05

I wouldn't be surprised.

SPEAKER_01 23:06

I honestly already hadn't he wins the World Cup, and do you know what? You know what would be actually really nice is if he retired on that night. Why Ronaldo's sitting there with pins, you know, I mean, yeah, a penny for Ronaldo's thoughts.

SPEAKER_00 23:22

It's crazy, absolutely crazy. He's an insane player, one of the best players that's ever played the game, and uh it would be um amazing for him to win the World Cup and it'd be a great send-off. However, being a City fan, um, there's there's quite a few connections there with that Spanish team. I'd rather Spain win it, to be honest with you.

SPEAKER_01 23:40

I'd rather Spain win it as well. All right, right. So we're back in the next week or so. Um Studios all built, it's all ready to go. Uh we'll be in vision from next season as well. So if you've never seen us, you'll go, wow, is that Brad Pitt and um Leonardo DiCaprio in their prime. So we'll be we'll be doing all that. We'll go back to um I'm Joel, I'm a Man United fan. Here's Nigel, who is a massive City fan, and no doubt it will kick off and it'll just go from bad to worse, I reckon, for City next season.

SPEAKER_00 24:09

I totally disagree, but I'm looking forward to getting in that studio. Thanks for listening, everybody. It's been a top World Cup, even though we've not got to the final so close yet so far, and I'm still absolutely devastated.

SPEAKER_01 24:23

And as Jude Bellingham would say, whatever.