You Don't Need New Machines — You Need This Engineer with Dr. Thorsten Wuest

What if the single biggest lever for unlocking capacity on your shop floor isn't a new piece of equipment, a new ERP system, or a costly consultant — it's a discipline most mid-market manufacturers have never even considered hiring for?

In this episode of the Allied Advisors Podcast, Justin sits down with Dr. Thorsten Wuest, full professor of mechanical engineering and founding program director of the brand-new Industrial Engineering program at the University of South Carolina's Molinaroli College of Engineering and Computing. Dr. Wuest arrived in Columbia in August 2024 with a mandate that would make most academics sweat: build a world-class IE program from scratch in a single semester. In one year, the program grew from 19 students to 66 — with another 30–40% growth projected — because, as it turns out, industrial engineering is the single most requested major from South Carolina employers that USC wasn't offering.

Dr. Wuest is also the founding director of USC's new Center for Industry Solutions, designed to close the gap between academic research and real-world manufacturing — with a particular focus on giving mid-market companies access to the kind of engineering talent that only the Fortune 500 could previously afford. His advisory board already includes the CTO of Scout Motors, the head of engineering from Mercedes-Benz, and representation from Siemens. He has been named one of SME's 20 Most Influential Professors in Smart Manufacturing and has authored over 180 peer-reviewed articles.

This is a conversation Justin has been wanting to have for a long time, and it delivers.

What We Cover in This Episode

The IE talent gap hiding in plain sight. Industrial engineering is the most-requested major from South Carolina employers — yet most high school students have never heard of it. Dr. Wuest breaks down why IE remains a "hidden major" and what USC is doing to change that, including a strategic partnership with Glimpse to better educate school advisors across the state.

The ROI of a single industrial engineer. Justin shares a story you'll want to write down: one client increased production output by 80% using nothing more than a Process FMEA (PFEP) and some combines — a strictly industrial engineering project that drove millions in additional monthly revenue. Dr. Wuest echoes this with his own firsthand example: just one hour walking a mid-sized manufacturer's shop floor surfaced improvement opportunities that would pay back in weeks, not years. The savings don't stop at throughput — better routing and layout also reduce forklift crossings, lower accident risk, and can even reduce insurance premiums over time.

Why your operations team will never solve this problem. You don't ask your shift supervisors how the process standards are coming along — you ask them how many parts came off the line. Justin and Dr. Wuest dig into why improvement work will always fall to the bottom of the pile unless you dedicate a resource to it, and why that resource pays for itself fast when given the right support and direction.

Change management is the real barrier. Mid-market hesitancy around hiring industrial engineers often isn't really about the salary — it's about what an IE's recommendations actually require: organizational change. Dr. Wuest and Justin discuss why proactive change (on your timeline, with your resources) is almost always cheaper and less painful than reactive change forced by a crisis.

How to start small: co-ops, capstones, and student consulting. Not ready for a full-time IE hire? Dr. Wuest makes the case for starting with a co-op or a structured student consulting project through the Center for Industry Solutions. These aren't ordinary class projects — they're interdisciplinary teams of competitively selected, paid students from IE, supply chain, and finance, supervised by professional staff and faculty, executing semester-long engagements run like real consulting engagements. Manufacturers get consulting-grade deliverables at a fraction of the cost. Students get real shop floor experience — and employers get an extended job interview with their best future candidates. The onboarding cost savings alone may justify the engagement.

USC's Center for Industry Solutions: a new front door for manufacturers. Dr. Wuest walks through the three pillars of the Center — workforce readiness, talent retention, and industry-university connectivity — and explains how it functions as a matchmaking service for the whole breadth of what the Molinaroli College has to offer, from student consulting projects to full-scale applied research partnerships. He also details how the Center is working to dramatically reduce the legal friction that typically slows university-industry collaboration to a crawl.

AI in engineering education: use it wisely, or pay for it later. Dr. Wuest has spent the last 10–15 years in machine learning research, so this isn't a surface-level conversation. He and Justin explore USC's proactive, transparency-first AI policy, the risk of students outsourcing their critical thinking before they've ever developed it, and why the analogy holds: if you never work as a junior coder, you can never become a senior one. The best use of AI — as Justin puts it — is as an "efficiency multiplier" for professionals who already have the foundational knowledge to evaluate and direct its output. You can't get there without doing the hard work first.

Retaining talent in the Palmetto State. South Carolina's $3,000 internship incentive is a start, but the real retention play is giving students meaningful, challenging work with employers who treat them as intellectual contributors — not just cheap labor. Dr. Wuest lays out the chicken-and-egg dynamic driving engineering talent out of the Southeast, why that is beginning to reverse, and what Scout Motors' move toward Charlotte signals about the region's trajectory.

Key Takeaways

• Industrial engineering is the most-requested major from South Carolina employers — and one of the highest-ROI hires a mid-market manufacturer can make.
• A dedicated IE resource is the only way to ensure process improvement actually becomes someone's first priority.
• One hour of structured shop floor observation can surface savings that pay back in weeks.
• Co-ops and student consulting through USC's Center for Industry Solutions offer a low-risk, high-value on-ramp for manufacturers who aren't ready for a full-time hire.
• AI is a powerful efficiency multiplier — but only for professionals who have already done the hard work of developing foundational expertise.
• The Southeast's talent retention problem is solvable, but it requires proactive investment from both universities and employers.

About Our Guest

Dr. Thorsten Wuest is a full professor of mechanical engineering and the founding program director of the Industrial Engineering program at the University of South Carolina's Molinaroli College of Engineering and Computing. He is also the founding director of USC's Center for Industry Solutions. Dr. Wuest is one of SME's 20 Most Influential Professors in Smart Manufacturing and the author of over 180 peer-reviewed articles. His research sits at the intersection of smart manufacturing, machine learning, and industrial AI.

📧 Contact Dr. Wuest: twuest@sc.edu 🌐 Center for Industry Solutions: [sc.edu — search "Center for Industry Solutions"]

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:03

Welcome back, everybody, to another episode of the Allied Advisors Podcast, the podcast for mid-market manufacturers looking to scale operations and improve that ever-important bottom line. Today's guest is Dr. Thor Woost, a full professor of mechanical engineering and the founding program director of the brand new industrial engineering program at the University of South Carolina's Molin Molinar Molinaroli. Golly, I can't talk this morning. College of Engineering and Computing. Dr. Woost came to Columbia in August of 2024 with a rare mandate. Build a world-class IE program from the ground up. In just one semester, the program grew from 19 students to 66, and it's projected to grow another 30 to 40% this year. Because, as it turns out, industrial engineering is the most requested major from employers in the state of South Carolina that USC wasn't offering. The program is already drawing an advisory board that includes the CTO of Scout Motors, the head of engineering for Mercedes-Benz, and representation from Siemens. Dr. Woosh is also the director of USC's New Center for Industry Solutions, which is being built to bridge the gap between academic research and real-world manufacturing, with a particular focus on getting mid-market manufacturers access to the kind of engineering talent that only the big guys have historically been able to afford. He is one of SME's 20 most influential professors in smart manufacturing, has authored over 180 peer-reviewed articles, and brings a perspective on the engineer-to-shop floor relationship shaped by his roots in German manufacturing. Dr. Woost, welcome to the Allied Advisors Podcast.

SPEAKER_01 1:50

Thank you so much, Justin. Happy to be here.

SPEAKER_00 1:54

This is definitely one of those like pet topics that I'm really passionate about, and I'm so excited to get you on the show because you know my experience in mid-market manufacturing is industrial engineering is one skill set that is just sorely underappreciated. I don't think folks in this space really understand the potential to unlock capacity through the use of good industrial engineering practices. So I'm so excited to get into this conversation and really can't wait to get this message out to our audience. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01 2:32

Wonderful. Yeah, and I couldn't agree more.

SPEAKER_00 2:35

Yeah, so you shared that the decision to start the IE program at USC was driven by it being the most requested major from state employers, parents, and students. Now that the program has grown from 19 to 66 students in just one year, what has the feedback been from those South Carolina employers who were previously struggled struggling to find local IE talent?

SPEAKER_01 2:57

Yeah, let me let me just backtrack a little bit because I also want to give credit where credit is due, right? Like I came in 2024 and a lot of the legwork has already been done by people before me, right? Um the the program structure and and approvals and all that before they they uh brought me down here. So that of course I don't want to take credit for that. That was done well, and and that helped me a lot to set up the program and get it started. Um and then we hired well, we have two great instructors uh that that do a fabulous job. Um and and maybe just honing in on that real quick, um, we made sure that we hired a very uh hungry and aggressive new PhD graduate from from a school up north that's all remained nameless, that you know well, I know. Um and then uh the other one we made a very, very distinct decision, and that that was actually signed off by the president of the university. He hired a professor of practice, right, with over uh 35 years or 40 years of experience as uh leader of an Amazon uh uh location, uh CEO of a manufacturing company, uh master of black belt, uh Six Sigma black belt, uh, that brings that industrial perspective into the classroom, right? Um so we want to make sure that our um our our graduates are prepared for the workforce from day one, right? That they get that experience and not just theory here in the classroom. Um now to your question, what employers say so far, they like it, but they haven't had a graduate yet, right? Because we haven't graduated the student yet. So I can't give you a full answer yet. I just can you give you an immediate answer, uh, an intermediate answer uh from the feedback we had so far when our students interacted with visiting employers and at job fairs, um, or with our advisory board or uh or other interactions where we brought industry to the classroom. Uh, the other feedback was fantastic, but uh I will update you as soon as we have our graduates out in the workforce, but I'm I'm convinced they will do fantastic.

SPEAKER_00 4:57

Yeah, I'm super excited about it. I guess one thing I should note it, I should note that for the audience is I am a Clemson University graduate, a proud tiger. Uh, and Dr. Woost comes from obviously our interstate rival, the University of South Carolina. Um, you know, I I will set aside rivalries for the for the benefit of the industrial engineering as a profession. I am uh I'm super excited to see another university in the state offering IEs. I mean, you know, I think it's gonna be great, not just for South Carolina, it's gonna be great for the entire Southeast, right?

SPEAKER_01 5:32

I mean, and and uh Justin, if I may may add to that, like even before I came down here, um I I had a conversation with the chair of industrial engineering, Kevin Taffy uh at Glemson, right? And it was very collegial and supportive. Like he offered to give advice and to work together. Um, he he sent his uh his students or suggested to his PhD graduates to apply to the positions here, right? And we hired one. Um so because there is such a big, big market for industrial engineering graduates or demand for industrial engineering graduates here in the state, and as you say, in the whole Southeast, uh, that both universities can't really satisfy that. And um the other aspect is that is underappreciated. Well, I know you know that because we talked about that before, is that industrial engineering is a major that um high school students are not aware of, right? They're not not advised to take that major, even so they might want to do the job, right? Everybody knows mechanical engineering, and I like mechanical engineering, I'm a professor in mechanical engineering, but um it's the industrial engineering is a little different, right? And um everybody knows chemical engineering and computer science, right? So that's that's where advisors say, hey, you're good in maths, you're good in physics, you like this, oh, do that, right? Uh and industrial engineering often is not on the map because advisors are not aware of it, because it's more of a hidden major, right? Um, so a lot of times, and that is in in established programs, uh the same case as it is here at USC, in in our short experience that we have, that we have a lot of transfers from other majors, right? When they realize, hey, I, you know, I really want to work on the shop floor, I want to improve that process, I want to make this better, right? Um, I want to understand this problem and build a solution. Um they they then transfer in, right? Um, and and we together with with our partners at Glemson, if we can can manage to educate advisors around the state better, um, we we might both benefit with more students, right? And and help these students not to, I don't want to say waste, but like uh not not be in the major from the start. Side note at USC, they won't waste any time at least, because they can transfer all the credits in because we have so many electives to make your program really unique. Just uh little advertisement.

SPEAKER_00 7:48

You know, Dr. Taffy's great. So obviously, you know, I I'm I'm uh you know, I was with Dr. Taffy when I was getting my master's in industrial engineering at Clemson. Um and and you know, rising tide, it floats all boats. So, you know, I you know again, I think it's great. I'm super excited about this. When I heard, when I heard about it, I you know this is exactly what the state needs because industrial engineering, a lot of folks always, and I'm guilty of it, right? I mean, I work in manufacturing. A lot of folks associate industrial engineering with only manufacturing, but that's really not true. The industrial engineering skill set, the you know, the tools that you learn in this major are applicable in any industry, you know, health care, even education. You know, industrial engineering principles, lean principles, working according to a standard. That has a broad-based appeal. So I think it's it's a great major. Obviously, I've I've built a career on it. Um, but the more we can educate people and bring awareness to it, uh I just think it's gonna be it's gonna be great for the region.

SPEAKER_01 8:48

Yeah, and and to that point, like uh I I fully agree. I mean, Disney Parks is run by industrial engineers, right? But um the other aspect is like at USC, when they brought me down, the the idea is because we're a new program, right? So we don't have the resources of an established program with like 20 faculty members and and you know the breadth of of talent to to go with it. Um we made a conscious decision to focus really on to be very strong in the in the manufacturing, in the in the smart manufacturing realm. Um we just we're we almost like 80% done. We hired four out of five open positions, and we got incredible candidates. So far, we have gotten, we were lucky, we got all our top candidates. They chose us over other offers, uh, which shows like that they also saw the potential here in the state and at the university, right? Um, and they all are, you know, we have hired a person with OR optimization background from Purdue, um, but made very sure that that is applicable to manufacturing problems, that there's an interest of applied work and not theoretical, you know, more mathematic uh like more statistics person. No, we want somebody that uses the OR and optimization principles and methods on applied problems on the shop floor or beyond, like shop floor supply chain, these types of problems that that apply to our industry partners and prepare our students for you know the real challenges they face in industry later. We don't want to be uh a theoretical program. We want to be applied, right? They're engineers. Engineers is applied science, it's not physics, right?

SPEAKER_00 10:22

Right. Can you go into a little bit more uh detail on when you say OR, can you explain to our audience what exactly you're referring to?

SPEAKER_01 10:30

Yeah, I'm probably not the right person to do so because that is probably the furthest away of the industrial engineering areas that that I'm I'm familiar with, but it's operations research, right? Where you look at uh problems like routing and scheduling optimization. So uh these types of problems. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:47

Yeah. Real world shop floor applications.

SPEAKER_01 10:49

Very important, but but not what my my research area. So I'm not that confident in speaking to it.

SPEAKER_00 10:56

Yeah, no worries, no worries.

SPEAKER_01 10:57

I just hire a really great new professor to do that.

SPEAKER_00 11:01

You know, in our uh pre-meeting, we discussed how mid-market firms often lack industrial engineers and instead rely on shift supervisors to write process standards. Uh, for a mid-market owner who thinks they can't afford a full IE department, how do you explain the ROI of having even one dedicated industrial engineer to handle things like line balancing and ergonomics?

SPEAKER_01 11:23

Well, the it's often surprising how how many savings uh can be can be realized with with only having one person taking the time to walk the shop floor, right? And we have that regularly where we just came back from a uh a medium-sized company here um where we just spend an hour, like a colleague of mine and and me just walked through their shop floor, and when we came back, we knotted down some notes with like improvement options that that would not cost much to implement, but would really improve the overall operation. And it's not just you know small small savings uh if if our our estimates are correct, right? They would pay for like the RIV of that would be, I don't know, very, very short, right? It would really pay for itself. Um and I think also not just it, it's it's of course the dollar value, and I think that that can be that that already sells it by itself. But when we think of other uh other aspects like hey, safety, right? When you look at the routing of of where the the warehouse is, where the machine is, where the finished products are, you know, where they go out, in and all, uh when you have crossings with with forklifts, uh, these are accident-prone areas, right? When you when you consolidate that and take that into consideration and optimize these routes, um, you reduce the the uh potential for for accidents, right? And now think further, hey, not just keeps does it keep your people healthy and safe, which should be your top priority, obviously, but never nevertheless, like it might also uh reduce your insurance premiums in the long run. So saves your dollars again, right? So there's there's also secondary benefits that are often overlooked of having somebody that that has the freedom to look for problems and solve them, right? The Gimba walk uh is a typical example. It it really means just walk around and observe, right? And that needs time, that needs somebody that that has the time to actually look and and observe without rushing from point to point.

SPEAKER_00 13:30

Uh 100%. I you know, I that's the point that I try to get across to all of my clients is you need an IE resource, you need somebody whose sole job it is, is to improve the process. Because you know, when you have the operations team doing it, it's never going to be their first priority because that's not what you ask them about, right? When you're in operations, you get asked about how many parts did you get off the line? What did you ship out yesterday? How many bad parts did you produce? You never get asked, hey, did you update that standard uh for that for the you know whatever process? You don't ask those folks about that. You ask them about the day-to-day results. So if if improving the standards, if if really having sound change management processes are is important to you, then you gotta carve out the resource to do it. And to your point about the value, I mean, I can't tell you how many times, you know, I have one client, we increased their output by 80% with nothing more than a PFEP and some COD bonds. That was it, right? A strictly industrial engineering project improved the output by 80%, which led to revenue in the millions of dollars each month in additional revenue, right? The the ROI on on an industrial engineer, it more than pays for the cost of the salary if you give them the attention and the support that they need, right? You gotta direct them. I often wonder, and I'd I'd be interested to get your feedback on this, is if maybe some of the hesitancy around bringing industrial engineers onto the staff of a mid-market firm is is reluctance to really embrace change management because that is very hard. Change management is a painful process for the entire organization, and it really has to be embraced by the top leadership if it's going to be successful. What are your thoughts on that?

SPEAKER_01 15:28

That that might be might be in some case, and I mean change is hard, right? Like people are uh creatures of habit. So I I fully understand that. And and of course, uh there's also a a reason that there's like never change a running system, right? Uh so there's there's there's good arguments for that, but uh also you know when you never change, then you get left behind. So there's yeah, it's it's it's I I think it's not optional uh to change. So if you change, then do it right and not forced, right? When you're proactive, then you change at a time when you have the resources to to do it. When you are forced to change, well, then you have a time clock and probably some some financial issues that uh that that make it harder. Um with the hesitancy of adding you know a full-time uh staff member on a you know not fully convinced, um, an option is always to you know uh start with a with a co-op or or an intern, right? So because they they are or a capstone project, right? And uh shameless self-promotion, I think we'll talk about that later, but the Center for Industry Solution is is set up to to help with with uh qualified student projects that are supervised by by professional staff and or faculty uh for problems like that, right? To go to a company and and look at their processes and and help them with with presentable, you know, consulting grade solutions for for a really affordable price. And benefit, they also get a uh long interview with with the best students, right? That they can hire after when they say, like, oh wow, that was valuable. Say I want that, want more of that. Well, hire them, right? They are right here.

SPEAKER_00 17:10

You're stealing the words right out of my mouth. That is the first thing I tell almost all of my mid-market uh clients is let's just get a co-op in here, right? It's not super expensive. We'll get a co-op and we can put them to work on some of these projects. And and then if it works out, maybe you maybe you hire them once they graduate. But it starts building, not only do you get value out of out of the co-ops, um, you also start building a talent pool from which you can pull from, you know, down the road. Hey, you know, we need an IE. Who have we had worked as a co-op in the last several years that we can call and see if they're available or if they're interested, right? I mean, it it's it's just a win-win-win. So yeah. And uh moving on to my next topic, uh, you're now directing the Center for Industry Solutions, which aims to help the state by preparing industry-ready graduates. How does the center act as a bridge for a local manufacturer who might not have a massive RD budget but needs immediate practical help solving a shop floor bottleneck?

SPEAKER_01 18:09

Yeah, uh I jumped a gun here a little bit, right? But yes, uh, so I'm I'm really excited about this new initiative. Um and let me let me uh give you a background how this this came to be, right? Um Mollinaroli, um the Alex Mollinaroli, the the namesake of our college now, um, he was a former CEO of Johnson Controls, right? And then made a very generous gift to the college uh with a clear charge, right? Like he really wanted to make sure that um that the college prepares graduates for for the industry in South Carolina and beyond, but but for South Carolina with a flagship institution, right? Um and what what he realized, being the CEO of Johnson Code Rolls before, so he hired a lot of talent, um, that engineering schools, not just USC across the board, are very good at preparing students technically, right? They're very good at what they're supposed to do: mechanical engineering, industrial engineering, chemical, you name it. Um what they lack a little bit compared to, for example, business schools is the the so-called soft skills, right? Like salesmanship, um, presenting, like how to dress for the occasion, right? To to present themselves. That is stuff that they normally learn the first few months on the job, right? Uh hopefully in an internship before, but they learn that not at there's not a support system at the college necessarily. Uh, this is now changing because Alex made that a charge to the college or a challenge to the college. So there's different different vehicles now in uh in operation that help us to get our students to catch up to the business school and learn from what they do very well, right? Um and and also help our students understand that not always the best solution wins, right? Because you have to sell it. You have to sell it to people that might not be technical. So they might not understand that this number clearly shows this is the best solution. But you have to convince them in in terms that they understand that that often means ROI, dollar value, right? Uh, because the CFO will not sign off when he doesn't understand what it what it means for the bottom line. Um, so that is that is the background where we looked at different vehicles, how we can how we can make that happen. And the Center for Industry Solution is one of them. Um so we we when I when I took over as a director, we started from the ground up to really build it very strategically and build our mission and vision um basically on three pillars, right? One is really to educate our students to be ready on day one, right, for industry with the right skill set uh to deliver, right? Um, with the idea to reduce the training time that they need from, let's say, currently six months until they're fully operational in their new role, to maybe a month or two, right? In because they already got most of the training before. Um second is to help our uh industry partners, right? Because a lot of them say, hey, we have a problem with retention, right? And and not because they pay less. Uh some of them are the highest paying companies in the region. They still lose talent after two, three years, right? So um we believe we can we can help there as well, to help them connect them with South Carolina talent that wants to stay in South Carolina, to build that relationship that goes beyond just a transactional one. Um and third, of course, to to promote what uh University of South Carolina and the Molinaroli College can do for the state and um and and the country. Um and one big vehicle that we we are trying to to now now get operational is um our project teams that we we want to run like real consultants, right? Like of course there's class projects that that are small scale, you know, you get get some some value out of it. Then there are capstone projects that are you know kept to to a certain amount of students uh in a in a certain major because they're mandated by or or well by accreditation gives a frame of what what can be done and what cannot be done. And these projects are on the side of that right they're extracurricular. So students would get paid for their effort. They would be competitively selected and they would be selected based on their skill set for certain projects. Let's say a company has a a um warehouse optimization problem right we would look for a group of students that that fits that that problem right uh and that might be students from industrial engineering they they would fit that bill we might add a student from the supply chain management program at Darlamore right uh and we might add a uh a financial student because we we have to look at uh at the financials of the uh of the situation as well right um and so we would build this interdisciplinary team add additional staff and faculty support add training that we do at the center to get the students up to speed and then execute the problem uh the the project together with the students with you know problem assessment um developing the first initial solution present it to the customer get feedback iterate and then go all the way to to the final presentation and and show enough the results right so basically like a consultant project or like a semester or year long depending on what the problem is uh professionally run um and that uh believe I believe would be an excellent uh excellent uh result for the company because they get a a problem solved without own resources comparatively cheap um professionally done the students get get not just paid so it's like a nice nice side income what student doesn't like that right but the most important aspect they get they get real experience right because they they learn what real shop floor activities look like what the problems are how they communicate with staff how they communicate professionally you know with with the different levels at the company how to absorb the the wealth of information how to go through the problem apply their methods that they learn in their studies in in real life and present that iterate take feedback um and at the end um the students have a chance to learn about the employer right for for four months five months right the employer has a chance to observe how the students behave how they present how they behave themselves how they develop how they learn um and then at the end um you know when the uh if when there's a match the student knows what they're getting into the employer knows who they're hiring um the onboarding would be a breeze because they have already worked in that environment for a while and there's no surprise oh I didn't know this company is like that right because they already know so hopefully retention will also uh play a role so speaking of RRI our idea is that after the first few projects to analyze um how long the stud the the hires that emerge from these these joint projects when they get hired by the company stay uh how long uh or how much reduced the onboarding training requirement is um and then put a dollar value to it uh and I would believe the ROI would probably be like a month yeah for sure yeah 100% because hiring the wrong person is really expensive so then you can avoid that you know you can run three four projects to to save you from that problem. Yeah that's a that sounds like a pretty good deal for for local employers right I mean to get access to potential talent to get access to the obviously the professional network that is the staff at the University of South Carolina I mean why wouldn't you try to take advantage of that if you have some type of problem that you're trying to do and in addition to that Justin like that is just one of the vehicles or products and services that we want to offer from the center of course we also like as a as a gate to industry for the college so to speak um we will offer the whole breadth of uh of what what the Komolinaroli college has to offer right um so full scale research project like we run a project right now with Mercedes Benz Benz and Fraunhofer as a as a full scale research project in my research lab so that is that is something that we would also be able to facilitate not run at the center but you know make matchmaking say like we have that problem and then we say oh we know which lab is good with applied research and has that expertise we connect you and then you you know you negotiate your own contract for these projects with the students that I mentioned what we have in mind is you have um a pre-agreed on menu of uh of contracts right where where it's if you agree to these general terms it should be very easy to sign and say like hey you know IP stays here all that is is worked out that it's a very um low lawyer involvement process to get the project running right because that that is a big hurdle often that you know when when there is a NDAs or so and there's certain terms it just takes so much time and the students going towards graduation that is something that that is that needs to be improved and we hope uh through the center to provide a vehicle to make that that process much more workable right for both partners for for us uh to manage and to plan because we have to find the right students and and convince them to to join the teams and give them say a a timeline saying like hey it would start in January and then it needs to start in January right and then when we say like oh sorry the NDA negotiations are still ongoing and it goes on for another three months then that's not a good experience for no for both sides. So we really want to make sure that we have a a very good menu of offerings that we can can pick and choose.

SPEAKER_00 28:00

In addition to Six Sigma uh workshops um to to uh we had a soldering workshop the other day um we have uh Nvidia like uh speakers come in to teach students on you know how to program edge devices and AI uh applications on NVIDIA um these types of things you know you mentioned AI so I was I was actually talking with one of my mentors Meg Lanza uh she was a guest on the show uh several months ago she's the head of technology for BSH the um Bosch dishwashers the cooktops I know that's uh yeah yeah I know them yeah yeah so I you know yeah of course so I was telling Meg that you were coming on and she said you know one question you gotta ask him is what how are they incorporating AI into their curriculum?

SPEAKER_01 28:51

How does AI influence the way that they are educating you know the engineers of tomorrow and and you mentioned that a little bit about some of the workshops but how do you see that shaping the industrial engineering um let's say career for the next you know 20 30 40 years yeah that's that's an interesting question because you know the future is is hard to predict right sure but um the I or machine learning is is what I what I've been doing for the last last uh 10 10 15 years um and the recent developments are are very fast and um have have had a lot of impact on on education for sure so at at USC um we have a very proactive uh approach to ai so for example it's a requirement that every syllabus has an AI statement and that can be AI cannot be used that can be a statement but there has to be a statement right most have uh have a statement that it can be used but must be disclosed or for certain things you can use it but show how you do it you know depending on the course when it's more report writing you know there's a different statement then it's more multiple choice there might be a a different different type of of application so it's it's still up to the instructor but every instructor is is required to put thought into it and and communicate that clearly with the students what is what is allowed what is not allowed and why um I think that is that is a very good approach and that is not just for industrial engineering that is that is university wide um in addition the whole university has access to to the pro uh chat GPT and Gemini um application I believe also co-pilot but um I think Gemini and and chat GPT are normally the go-tos so students have full access um to to that and uh most instructors at least in in our realm here in engineering are are really looking into how to to make it not uh a forbidden fruit but but something that is a tool that has to be handled with care right because what we don't want to do is uh or don't want to avoid um that students outsource their critical thinking to to AI because I I personally fear about that when when students take the easy route where you know a report writing the report at the end you know yeah that's the result but the work that goes in the report that is the learning and when that is outsourced the report might look polished and good and you know might make sense great but the report never mattered it's how you get to the report right how you did this uh distill the information to write your report and and I think we're still about to figure out how how that will be done in the future but I'm worried that when we outsource that critical thinking and that uh that that learning which is which is you know intense and stressful and and uh you know takes time um so it's easy to say like oh yeah no let's say I do it right but but what does it do to our brain and how will it impact our future um future our future period yeah so it sounds like uh you know it sounds like academia and maybe I'm being too broad there and that's it feel free to correct me is still maybe struggling with how do we use this new tool uh and still encourage the the hard work that is education right I mean to your point writing the hard part about writing is organizing ideas in such a way that you can communicate them to your audience in a in a way that makes sense and and gets your point across that's that's really what takes so much time when you're trying to write something.

SPEAKER_00 32:56

I did a brief stint as an outdoor writer you know several years ago on the side to make some extra money and I it I did enough of it to really appreciate how hard it is to to condense several ideas down into a coherent line of thought um so yeah how do how how does academia do that moving forward yeah I and I think that's not exclusive to to academia I believe um and and I mean don't get me wrong um ai is fantastic for you know I I think that was eight years ago um I I had a um opinion paper on the cognitive automation right because we had all the the physical automation robotics and everything but we still did you know I I was so annoyed that I often had to reformat an excel table I should not do that right and that is not you know my my cognitive capability should not you be used for that so AI is fantastic to do that you know nobody should worry about that but for other stuff um even if AI could do it um again when you don't exercise something it it deteriorates right so just from from that philosophical perspective we we have to take care of our brains and and teach our students to use their brains and not shy away from from hard tasks because it's a natural reaction to to you know save energy and and don't do it right when you don't have to but uh it's a fine line um yeah no I I think you're exactly right I had a conversation with somebody back uh in November of last year and and they said in their opinion they thought software as a service that model is dead or it it will die eventually right that the AI is going to get to the point that if you need software you just type a prompt into play code and it spits out your software at the other end and and there you go you you know you don't need anybody to develop it and I said well okay they're like basically their argument was introductory level coding job software developers that that job no longer exists all you need is experts to be able to review the the Claude code and s and and correct it tweak it you know fix it but my argument was okay well that sounds like what you're creating is a bubble in the in the you know I don't even in the supply chain of professionals right because how do I get to be a a senior coder if I never do time as a junior coder right I mean that to me you're exactly right AI in my experience as an industrial a practicing industrial engineer it saves me so much time right in generating a presentation which I could generate myself but I'm gonna spend all my time doing all these you know formatting and aesthetics and and all that it takes all of my information and condenses it down in in a way that um it looks professional it's very nicely done but I have all the knowledge right I'm able to look at that presentation and say this doesn't make sense this needs to come out uh nope that's wrong this needs to be re reformatted or whatever but I have that knowledge because I've taken the time over the last 20 years to to do these presentations myself and and learn how to do them and learn how to communicate ideas in such a way that to your earlier point gets my point across to my audience the CFO the CEO if you don't ever do that if if you don't spend the time beating your head against that wall figuring it out then you never get to my point where you can use AI to be a a um you know an efficiency multiplier. It'll be interesting I I 100% agree with you it is a it is a balance and definitely a unique problem to solve with how do you give these young students the ability to struggle and learn when the cheat code is just a few mouse clicks away right I mean yeah that's yeah yeah and and again like I'm not saying we have figured it out uh we are we're aware of the the problem and we're trying different different vehicles to do that often you know in-class you know exercises with whiteboards and so on that is something where you know the human interaction comes into play um and again cloud cloud code i i just was at a uh conference last week and um a a co-panelist he mentioned that he runs multiple uh instances at the same time and and can gen you know yeah using like software like calendly or you know stuff like that that is that is a very clear problem um and right now it's it's basically valued by you know that they developed a nice software solution for it that might be priced differently in the future right um yeah so but creativity is still something that I I feel AI is uh still far away from right real human creativity correctly and and how can we how can we make sure that that doesn't get lost right because when when you don't do the hard parts you know how can you be creative when you don't understand the problem or the problem space because you never had to deal with uh the nuances of it so uh I mean give let me give you an example from my my own um undergrad uh in order to be able to take the exam on machine elements you know the design um we had to over Christmas break which was hard um basically draw a whole gear uh assembly on a on a blue yeah um draw it draw it out right a a cat drawing not a cat drawing on paper like a blueprint of a of a uh assembled gear right and that was graded and when this was wrong you had to do it again right and then you realized oh yeah you know it it cat is easy to change something but on paper it's not it takes you another two weeks to do it and uh I hated it when I had to do it I was proud of it at the end and I learned a ton right so I I I would still advocate that an engineer should once in his life do a paper cat like paper paper blueprint. So far I have not succeeded convincing anybody of it here but uh I I still feel it has a lot of value that you understand what what goes into it right just to understand the problem and then you of course you won't do it in the future again because that's a reason why cat exists um because it is easier it makes it much more applicable it might makes change management easier um but understanding where it comes from right is uh it's important I mean it it really does it builds a foundation because to your earlier point AI is not creative right AI flattens out creativity I mean I mentioned I use it for generating presentations and I will say AI is far more creative than yours truly I I'm about as creative as this desktop but but it's not creative in a in a true sense right I mean the presentations it generates look professional look great but they don't look they don't look unique they're not you know they don't know when you look at LinkedIn posts now you you see oh I don't read that it's uh I can tell it's AI generated right one thing that I really am mad about AI is they use these dashes right yep the EM dash I have used them like for the last 20 years and now I don't use I can't do my own writing style anymore because then people think I had it AI generated which is really annoying yep anyway well that is a fun topic and one that I'd love to continue down but but you know you talked a little bit about retaining the talent in the Palmetto state that the employer employers were complaining that folks were leaving them. So you know a major challenge is not just educating those engineers but keeping them here.

SPEAKER_01 41:01

You know how does how does the center how does the center student consulting teams in the state's $3,000 internship incentive help ensure that USC's best IE talent stays to build careers right here in South Carolina well um thank you that that's an excellent question because uh that is one one uh charge that Alex Molinaroli gave us and of course that that is a a charge that the state gave that flagship university as well because it's South Carolina's university um we believe that uh the well the the state's uh 3000 internship incentive is great right because students get some extra money to stay with an employer in the state and when you have an internship with a company hey the probability is much higher that you get employed there than at any other company so I think that's a no-brainer that that is a a great incentive uh and uh it's very generous of the state to do that and very smart in my opinion to to offer something like that right then for the uh student consulting projects um my my expectation would be that we when we get our best and brightest students because they would be paid competitively right and selected competitively and get a certificate which they put on their CV so it's we we would expect that the best students want to be in these projects. When we can connect them to to challenging projects uh with employers that value their input uh that gives them a great impression of local employers that they might have not considered otherwise right because they will get get offers from California Texas you name it right like they they can choose in the end we we graduate great engineers um so we have to advertise what they have here and what they can have here right hey it's a state that grows for a reason um because there it's it's affordable the weather is great I just came back from the north oh man it is great here and um uh people are friendly you know it's it's a great state right when we can show them that you can build a great career here with with interesting problems with good employers um they they might stay or they will stay I believe they will stay because a lot of them want to stay they just don't have don't know where the opportunities are right because often they look just at the the big names and uh in the past um unfortunately a lot of companies treated the southeast a little bit more as a uh extended assembly line instead of really putting their their uh research and development here this is about to change I believe because when we it's it's a chicken egg problem right when you can retain our talent here companies know this and see like hey that it's growing you know with the right incentives I mean we see it with Scout I mean unfortunately they put their headquarters now to Charlotte Rock Hill would be nicer but yeah uh at least it's it's in the region right and not Detroit anymore which is a big step in my opinion. Hey when that when that continues like that then Will be much easier to convince our talent to stay here. And um, again, it's a chicken egg problem when we convince our best talent to stay. Companies notice, they like, hey, there's great talent that stays here. Why not why not put more more um of the higher level engineering um here in the state instead of just you know the production line? Um and then and then it's a perpetual cycle, hopefully.

SPEAKER_00 44:25

Yeah, that's a great point. You know, I mean I worked for I worked in the automotive industry for you know 15 years and and everybody understood that you could start your career in the south, but if you really wanted to make it into the executive ranks, you were gonna wind up in Detroit, right? Uh that was that was kind of the way that worked. Or, you know, not in the south, right? I was with Germany.

SPEAKER_01 44:48

I mean automotive is is special in that sense. Um, I mean, even even in Germany, you know, like when when you are outside of of Munich for BMW, you know, or outside of Stuttgart, you know, it's it's just or I mean Toyota, right? The decisions are made in Japan. There's no no question about it. So if that will ever change, you know, one step at a time, right? But uh getting more high-value jobs down here, um, that to make a good career, uh, make a good living, uh, build a career here, um that's I think that's the the the short midterm goal.

SPEAKER_00 45:28

And and you're right, I mean it's a multi-factor decision, right? I mean, one of the factors is making sure that you've got the professionals in in the region to support those those headquarters. Uh, and then there's all kinds of other things that factor into that. But I'm glad to see that the USC and the state of South Carolina is doing our part to try to try to make that case for them.

SPEAKER_01 45:49

No, and if we're working with employers directly, like with some of the big ones, um, they they actually come to us, they're like, hey, we want to build a relationship to you know to get in touch with your students early to to make sure we get the best talent, right? Uh, because there's an intense uh competition out there for uh for the best engineering students, contrary to to what some some believe that uh uh university education is not uh not valuable, but that that is not true. And uh, I mean uh a state school, uh when you are in state, the ROI is insane. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:24

Well, you mentioned that your goal over the next few years is to collect data on how these new IE initiatives reduce onboarding time and improve employee retention. For the South Carolina manufacturers listening today, what are the specific benefits of partnering with the university early on to help shape and test these programs?

SPEAKER_01 46:43

That's an excellent question. And uh to be honest, we're still figuring out how to frame that, but um I would uh I would be very interested in exploring that together with uh with the the initial partners because we understand that you know uh there's some not necessarily risk involved, but maybe additional work or or uh uncertainty involved because we we can't prove the numbers yet. That's why we have these initial projects. Um so we would be like probably be able to subsidize the the initial projects to some extent and and put some some of our resources and and time and effort in um to not charge the full amount for for a project. Uh if if in exchange we would get some you know midterm data saying, like, hey, the first five years of uh of any uh hiring you do, uh what is the performance compared to others and so on. Um but again, this is this is still uh work in progress. Um we're we're trying to make sure uh to look at it from all angles because once we do it, the data's there, and then we realize we missed something. Well, then it's too late. So we want to make sure we get it right the first time, right?

SPEAKER_00 47:51

Yeah. Measure measure twice, cut once, right? Exactly, exactly. Well, Dr. Whoosh, thank you so much for carving out the time to come on the show. I am, like I said, I am super excited about what's going on uh in the at the in the state and at the University of South Carolina. I think it's gonna be wonderful uh for for the region, not only uh the Palmetto State, and and I know you guys are playing a big part of it. Um thank you so much for carving out the time to come and tell our audience about what's going on. And um, you know, if if folks want to reach out to you, or maybe there's an employer listening that's interested in partnering with the university, what's the best way to get in touch?

SPEAKER_01 48:30

Well, um best is probably email. Just shoot me an email. Um my email is uh t uh w-e-st.edu. Um you probably can put that in the podcast. Um we also have a website for the center uh where there is a specific button for uh for companies that are interested to partner to get in touch. Um that is also an easy way where not just I get notified, but also some of our staff. Um yeah. Either way is fine, just get in touch, right? We want to work with you. Don't hesitate, even if it's just a question. Um we're we're happy to enter it. Uh invite you to come by, look at the what we have. Um and if it's uh you know, get in touch with students, get you in a lecture, give a give a uh 15-minute talk about your your company, your problems. We want to get our students exposed to industries and and and problems in industry so they they get prepared. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:29

Yeah, and I'm telling you guys, the ROI on an industrial engineer on staff, it will pay for itself quickly. You know, I I see it time and time again. So it's uh it's great that the universities recognize this. And um, you know, I'd encourage if you're an employer out there listening, take the man up on his offer, get in touch, get one of these students at the at your facility because I don't think I know you're not gonna regret it. It's gonna be a value. So any Dr. Woos, thank you again so much for carving out the time. It's been a pleasure to have you on. Maybe we can do this again in a couple of years one and see where the uh where the program is. Hopefully it's you know well beyond 66 students and it's you know they're cruising.

SPEAKER_01 50:12

Uh thank you so much. I really appreciate it. Uh that this was fantastic. And and I hope it's not a few years. I hope to have you down in Colombia to show you around and show the the labs and the infrastructure we built. We have some exciting hiring that we did, which will lead to some some really cool developments that might be worthwhile another podcast in maybe uh a year or two.

SPEAKER_00 50:32

We'll love it. We'll love it. All right. Thanks again.