🎙️ Leaders not operating at their Level | Command 2 Corporate

🎖️ When leaders operate below—or above—their level, chaos follows. Teams stall, decisions slow, and accountability disappears.

🎯 Key Takeaways:

🔹 Misaligned leadership creates confusion
🔹 Strategic leaders stuck in tactical work create bottlenecks
🔹 Clarity of role = clarity of execution

🎯 What We Explore:

🔹 Signs of misaligned leadership
🔹 Impact on teams
🔹 Why leaders struggle to let go
🔹 Fixing the problem


🗣️  Like, subscribe, and comment below—Have you seen this in your organization?

       You can find us on YouTube, Spotify, and Apple Podcasts!

🔖  #Leadership #Management #BusinessOperations #Command2Corporate

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Whether you're leading for the first time, leading through change, or learning to lead all over again, this space is for you. No fluff, no gimmicks, just real talk from those who've led through challenges, adapted under pressure, and thrived in the face of change. Welcome to Command to Corporate, where leadership isn't just taught, it's lived. Let's get to work. Alright, welcome back, everybody. How are y'all doing? We are your host, LPN T for Command to Corporate. T, how are we doing?

SPEAKER_00 0:35

Uh, pretty good, brother. How are you doing?

SPEAKER_01 0:37

I'm good, good, man. The weather's nice, even though I think they said it was gonna come in later um this evening. So I think they said it might bring hail, so definitely gonna put the car they yeah. I saw the reviews that said potentially hail. So oh, I didn't know that. Okay, yeah. I mean, maybe you know, it can always change, but I'm trying to get it all the car all dinged up or whatever. So definitely and you getting tore up, like hell, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:10

No, I've been caught one time and that was horrible. I'm like, all I hear is ding, every ding, I hear dollar signs. That's all I heard. I was damn 100, 200. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 1:26

Yeah, but I mean the weather's I mean, I actually got in the pool yesterday, man, for the first time. It was it was chills about 80 degrees, but and that heat yesterday, man, that thing felt good. I imagine, yeah, it was refreshing to just be able to take a dip out back. I'm like, yeah, unbelievable. Love the life.

SPEAKER_00 1:48

That's pretty good life, man. Apartment life is is not quite the same.

SPEAKER_01 1:53

Just gotta share.

SPEAKER_00 1:55

Yeah, we got a pool, don't get me wrong. Yeah, yeah, it's it's everybody's half my age.

SPEAKER_01 2:04

Let's grab Bob by the pool.

SPEAKER_00 2:09

Yeah, I'm not trying to go out there. Uh uh.

SPEAKER_01 2:12

All right. Any other plans this weekend? I mean, we we're already into you know uh Sunday and kind of towards the late afternoon. Yeah, get ready for tomorrow.

SPEAKER_00 2:22

I'm done. Okay, now that you told me there's help, not leaving the house.

SPEAKER_01 2:29

All right, okay, we'll jump into it. So today's topic, we are talking about leaders not operating at their level. I say again, leaders not operating at their level. And we're gonna just jump right in. So, first question what does operating at your level mean? And for me, I mean, we we hear it in the um military, like staying in your lane for one, like doing your job. But if it's like if you're gonna be a VP, senior director, whatever, manager, what does that mean in your space? What should you be focusing on? What should be your job, what should hold have your attention, all of those things, and operating as such. So the higher you go, the more strategic you are, lower you are tactical. So it's like at a certain point, you got to let go of some of the nitty-gritty day-to-day things and look at things from a more holistic level, but it's really in a general sense, and those out there listening, like put it in, like use Google, whatever AI to say, you know, what does it mean to do that? And at your level, what does that mean to operate? Yeah, where should you be focused and even get more granular? What is the space you're in? What is your role? You know, do you have employees? All of that, and focus on staying in your space. What do you think for you?

SPEAKER_00 4:05

No, I I agree, especially, you know, like if you're a position where you should be a strategic leader, are you thinking that long term um versus short term, right? I think a lot of us get stuck in the short-term thinking just because that's where maybe we came from. Uh, but that's a good point. But also, I think um another way of I looked at it is really are you honest with yourself and are you operating to what you're qualified for, the level that you are, right? Are you minimally qualified for a job? Is another way of like looking at it. Um, I know some people maybe slightly embellish their their resumes, right? And they get a job, and then they realize, and everybody realizes like, yeah, you're not qualified for that job, you know. Um, and it's like you think about it, you like you got to be honest with yourself. You know, you could embellish your resume and get a job, but like it's going to be a very big struggle for that person, you know. It's like they probably feel like they're they're fake in that position. Um people are fake in it. That's a good point. Yeah, yeah, they are fake, and that has to be a struggle for people, you know. You're like you're underperforming, your peers are are passing you by, and people are wondering why don't why don't you why aren't you doing your job, right? Um, so like that's another way of looking at it. Uh so be mindful, I guess, when you take on a new role or new position, like you know, be honest. Like, are you gonna perform in that job? So look at what the people are doing or the person before you has been doing, and be honest, like, do I really want to do this job? Am I qualified for that job, you know? Um, and so it's it's interesting because I've had I've had to do this in the past, right? So I was I was in a accelerated leadership development program, and um I'm looking at my you know two-year down the line position, you know, where my what my boss was doing, and I looked at it, I was like, I don't think I want to do that job, you know. One, I'm not really qualified for that job, you know. I may I may get qualification over the time, but I just I don't see it. It's not something that I really want to do either, you know. Um, I could have just stuck with the program and gotten to that position and was just maybe fake the funk, or I don't know. But like, yeah, I was like, that's not my level. I don't want to be there, I don't want to do it, you know. So that kind of a bit, you know, sucked a bit, you know, because I had to admit to myself and like, yeah, I can't, I can't do that job. But um, I think I'm happier for it because I was not in a position where I I hated my work, you know, because otherwise I would have hated what I was doing, hated my coworkers, my co-workers would have hated me for for dragging. Anyway, yeah, that's that's the other way I kind of looked at it.

SPEAKER_01 7:06

And I think if you're going to step in something like you're gonna take that leap to move up, like you say, understand what comes with that and rise to that occasion and know that you're going to have to put on a different hat, operate at a different level, but do that, don't move in because you want the money, which you don't take the approach to actually move up and mentor when it comes to the work you do, your mindset, which kind of leads us to the next question: why do leaders stay too tactical? And I think they don't move up, they don't truly embrace the role. This goes back to we had a conversation before where people were very good individual contributors, and then all of a sudden, luck has it, they get into this higher-level role, your mindset doesn't change. You still about, I'm gonna do all the work, you don't know how to delegate, and that's where you stay too tactical, wanting to know things that it's like, why do you want to know them? Give you an example. Like, I have like a for example, a team has a mailbox where employees can maybe ask questions, and you literally have a VP, vice president, or a senior vice president wanting access to the mailbox to see what people, for one, what what people are asking, and then to see like who's responding, how they're responding. Like, you don't have anything else better to do than to look, you want to actually know that. Why would you want to do that? But and then think that it's okay. And I'm like, for you to think that it's okay is a problem, if you think that that's all right to do. And I remember I've I've had instances where I've mentioned stuff, and they'll say, Oh, we'll get there. No, no, no, no. We don't, we're not gonna, we don't plan to we get there, like you switch. You know how in the military, when we can promote it, you switch. You are no longer doing that job that you are doing. That's why you go to a school, you learn how to be act three, act in that new role in your new level, you know, learn what's in your lane, and you stay in it because you now have someone that's now backfields you, and that's their lane. Stay out of your business. What's your business and focus on your business?

SPEAKER_00 9:30

Yeah, no, that's that's a good way of looking at it. Yeah, yeah. I think um, to me, when I think of why people stay tactical, I think it's um it's kind of you know, we all come maybe as individual contributors, and we're get we get very good at a job and like we really focus on it, right? And I think this is kind of one of the first times where you really get good recognition for doing a good job, right? And so you're like, man, I'm being recognized and it feels good. So you kind of you work a little bit harder and get a little better, and then all of a sudden you're thrown into a whole new world, like become a people manager, for example, and now you have to take a it's it's a bigger picture you're looking at, right? But a lot of times it's difficult. If the transition to people manager is is is not smooth or is not like you don't receive any kind of training or prep, then it becomes difficult. So when it comes difficult, like I mean, honestly, we all kind of revert back to what we know during difficult times, right? And so I think that's why it's just easier. Uh, but also being a strategic thinker is difficult because you end up doing a lot of making a lot of decisions based on calculated risk, right? Because there's a lot of uncertainty in the future, especially if you're you know you're thinking long term and you're always saying, you know, like I don't know what the future holds, but like I think this is this may happen, or here's a risk I'm willing to accept or not. And so that is very, very difficult as well. And so it's it's if you haven't done it before, it it could be scary, right? Because you have a lot of responsibility and you're and you're just like it may feel like you're guessing at times because there's a lot of unknowns in the future.

SPEAKER_01 11:21

And I think you bring up bringing up a good point where where you once were recognized as an individual contributor. And it's like the harder I work, the better, the more I'm recognized, and more people say, Hey, great job, and all this stuff. But once you become a people leader, it's the team is what's bringing you recognition, their work is bringing you recognition. So you redirect your your your uh I guess output from your own to what they deliver because they are now speaking for you. So if you focus on putting your energy into them and getting them to them, people say, Man, your team did a great job. They look at you as like, Wow, you're the one leading these people to perform at a great level. I appreciate what you're doing for them. So taking the focus is almost like indirect credit. The better they do, the better you look. The worse they look, the worse you look. And you can't then turn around and say, Well, let me do all the work myself. First of all, you're gonna burn out, most likely. But it's just to me, it's just always a bad look because you want people to shine. My approach is I've had a leader tell me because your team is young, they need more hand holding. I totally disagree with that. I'm like, it doesn't matter their age, it depends on their skill and how you coach them up. So I'm not gonna turn around and hand hold, micromanage at all. It doesn't matter what level you're at. I will give you more frequent coachings and want to see your output and review stuff, but I'm not getting involved with your business, I'm not attending your meetings, I'm not none of that. You know, you to get up there and shine on your own. And I think this leads to the next question is what happens when leaders overreach and when they start to go back to well, let me do it all myself, or get in the start to get in the weeds. You know, what do you what do you think what happens when that happens, when people start to overreach and get into the weeds?

SPEAKER_00 13:29

That's interesting. Uh you looked at it as getting into into the weeds. I I didn't look at it this way necessarily. Um, I think when I think of overreach, I think of kind of going beyond your job and boundaries, right? So, like me going me going to tell another team what to do and how they should do things, right?

SPEAKER_01 13:50

Oh, that could happen too.

SPEAKER_00 13:51

That could happen, which is no, I mean, but like, huh? It's like, who are you? Yeah, exactly, right? Um, and sometimes that really takes a lot of courage, and sometimes it works, right? And if it works, you're like, oh my god, you know, you know, Larry went there and kind of made this suggestion, and and they, you know, the team now all of a sudden is a successful. Great. But the one time or any time that fails, that could be a career ender, right? Like it's it's all good as long as it works. But the minute you fail, guess what? The team that like now you overreached is gonna tell you, you know, why are you doing this? They're gonna now try to, you know, look find ways to discredit you and and and make you fail and just be really good opposition now, you know. So it's miserable. But you know, you may do it one time and and and maybe successful the second time or third time, you're gonna fail, and it's gonna be uh like almost a career ender of times, you know. Um, but it's interesting, okay. That's that's where I I kind of uh but let's take both.

SPEAKER_01 15:04

If you went to another team and decide to try to influence, or let's say you went the other way and tried to micromanage and get into the weeds, both of them leads us to the next one. How does this affect team trust? And I think on my side, well, it's like, why are you getting involved in their business? Do you not trust them to do the right thing? And I've had a leader say, I don't like literally not trust your people, but why have they done something to lose your trust? So I remember being a part of a leadership team, and one of the first things that, like, I guess trying to define a high-performing team. One of the first things that people wrote down is, well, trust, like, I don't trust. And it was a new team, new leaders, fairly new working with each other. Everyone's like, I don't trust you, bottom line. But first of all, the facilitator blew past it. So I said, Well, well, let's go back. Why don't you trust? Why is trust an issue? Then I asked the group, why do you not trust me? I've never worked with you before. Why would you off the bat not trust me if we've never worked? What have I done to lose your trust? And they couldn't really answer. They're just like, Well, it's not that you haven't done anything, I just don't trust people like that. But why? Why, what's the problem? Because now you're gonna get into the weeds or you're gonna overreach. And it's like, for what reason? Like, let me let me earn the trust, or at least let me do something to lose the trust. But don't don't start in a neutral plane, it shouldn't be like, yeah, well, off the bat, I don't I don't like the way you look, I don't trust you.

SPEAKER_00 16:50

Yeah, that's crazy. But like, I don't know, maybe I yeah, I don't know, man. I I think I might be guilty of this stuff as well. I think for me, I think like I uh trust is earned with me, you know, like some degree I I trust people, but like yeah, like it really takes a lot. I have to I have to trust people, like and it and it just takes getting to know people, talking to people, and just experiencing, right? Um and so you have to, but I also try to be proactive and put myself in positions to to observe, yeah. Um and so maybe maybe that's the difference. If I'm not being proactive and observing it and trying to, you know, really understand and trust a person, then then yeah, it's kind of messed up because I, you know, right off the bat, like I don't trust you, but I'm not doing anything to really validate if if yeah, this trust is is is there or not, you know.

SPEAKER_01 17:53

Because I can understand people starting at zero and you got to work your way up, but if you don't trust someone, that's negative because you already and you got to get to zero, then work your way up. So then there's resistance, you know, it's like it's almost like you treat me like a threat. There's resistance, there's a wall-up, and I gotta work to overcome that, and then we can maybe start having a productive and fruitful uh working relationship and being true team members. True. And and some people, I mean, I've seen it in different situations where they just never trust. Like it's just constantly an us against them mentality. It's never truly being a collect, like within a team, having sub-departments, you know, because they're different specialties, and never truly becoming one team, knowing that we're all here towards servicing someone else, it's just constant because we can never align, or you know.

SPEAKER_00 18:54

Yeah, that's true. That's that's exhaustive.

SPEAKER_01 18:58

It is, it is, it's funny, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:00

It really is.

SPEAKER_01 19:01

It's weird. When you finish the end of the week, you're like, Oh, I am drained. I am drained. Like when you get to the point where you're coming up in the office, and some of y'all maybe all relate, and you just like this, you know, it's just funny.

SPEAKER_00 19:16

You know, now that you're you're saying, and it makes me wonder, there's some people that don't like confrontation, right? So, like, I don't have this issue, and so maybe I'm like all about yeah, like I'm just gonna get out and open, right? But like some people may have a negative experience with a person, but because they're non-confrontational, they don't approach to understand, right? And and it's it's not like you know, if somebody's like, hey T, you know, what you said kind of bothered me a little bit, like, but you know, this is it's weird, or or why is this, you know, and then that's that's good, you know, because when you have now you start having that discussion and understand it, right? And it's like, oh, I see, you know. But if you if somebody had a bad experience with me and doesn't really address it just because they're not confrontational, doesn't like argument, then they may just dismiss me and just not trust me, you know. And to me, I did nothing wrong, and maybe I did have a very valid point, but they never really took an opportunity to understand it, right? And so maybe that's what it is.

SPEAKER_01 20:21

I mean, I I think that happens more times than not, where you know, for example, let's say you're doing, you know, maybe some rumor starts about you just because of some incident completely false, but it spreads as if it's the truth, and because of that, people then put up a wall against you, like maybe you're trying to move in the company, and they were like, Oh, I heard about you. It's like what did you hear? You never came to me and talked, you never asked for clarification, you never sought to understand, you just passed judgment, and that's it. Yeah, and I think that happens to a lot of people, and maybe there was a maybe they heard about an altercation, you know, verbal thing, but they don't know the details, and all they know is well, you said this, but what's the rest of it? What's the rest of the story? They get one side, that's it. You're tainted me, I'm not eating that, that's it.

SPEAKER_00 21:17

That's crazy, it's communication, it really goes back, right?

SPEAKER_01 21:21

But I guess some people don't like to professionalism, which we talked about, just talk about it, but it's just crazy the amount of unprofessionalism that is just it's rampant in corporate. I'm telling you, it's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 21:38

Yeah, but I mean it's everywhere, it's everywhere too.

SPEAKER_01 21:41

It's not like you you're not gonna avoid it, people it's out there, like you just gotta do your best. That's what we're here. We're trying we're here for you. So just just just when that when in doubt, like let me let me see, let me find an episode and we'll we'll we'll talk you through it.

SPEAKER_00 21:56

That's all and honestly, you know, it's uh Things are it's like a constantly learning. I mean, I'm constantly learning, even like our discussions, like I'm always like taking something new away, you know, that I haven't like thought about in a while, or like something new I didn't know at all. So this is good, uh you know. So I yeah, this is I appreciate this as well. I mean, I'm getting something out of it as well.

SPEAKER_01 22:18

So yeah, me too. I mean, I love talking, talking through these things, yeah. So, with what we said, how can re leaders recalibrate? And I think this can be tough because if a leader doesn't know to begin with, so let's say they went from an individual contributor, now they're in this space, they find that they're in the weeds, they're you know, they're too tactical, they're they're doing all the wrong things, they're losing trust. How can they recalibrate? Well, they could, they could take a step back and say, you know what, let me go back to what is my job, what should I be focused on? Where should my attention because to me you would end up getting burned out being in everyone's space? And it's like, let me focus on that. The flip side is you let go of things that's not your business. But then if you let go, do you have the people in place to see those things through? And can that can you now go from being tactical to having a more strategic focus and actually just coach and say, give people, coach them up, go forth, step away, do your job, pick up with them, coach, step away, do your job, and and and coach them through it. The gap is when they can't do that. So not only can you not step away, you don't even know how to coach because no one's ever taught you. So then it's just you're like in this limbo place where you don't talk to them, you don't provide direction, you're just like, oh, everything is good until it's not, and then you're then you might freak out, or you know, maybe you want to just get rid of somebody. You you want everyone, you know, it's just you just chew it up.

SPEAKER_00 24:02

It's hard though, it is I'm sure somebody's is in the space and is struggling with it. Um, but it's difficult, like you get in a you get a reputation, and it's hard to shake off that reputation, right? Yeah, and that's the most difficult part, and and um yeah, I honestly don't have any good advice because I think it's hard to break that reputation other than just like you know, keep your head down, you know, do your job and just kind of I don't know, try to prove you know the person that you are. I guess that's the thing about the military that I liked about you know moving or doing something else every two, three years. It's a lot of times like I got stuck in a way I'm like, ah, like this is not good, you know, where maybe I was too you know, early in in my career as a manager, like I got too friendly, you know, with with my team.

SPEAKER_01 25:02

Man, that can bite you, that can bite you. Let we we're gonna jump on that real quick because you know, some people do not understand the importance as a leader to have boundaries, and that you cannot. I mean, in the military, we were family. So though you were in charge, at least from my perspective, we were still like we would get together, we were together all the time. So we were together at work, we were together outside on the weekends, like it was us all the time. But at the same time, you have to understand your role as a leader. People are still to be held accountable, and they have to understand that that is your stance. I remember one time, and I may have shared this a few way few episodes back, where I literally had to write up people on a Friday and they turn around and say, Yeah, I understand, because I made it clear, it's by the book. And they still turn around and say, You're still coming to the barbecue tomorrow, right? Of course, right? Because they understand separating personal and business, and they might joke around about it and be like, Yeah, sorry, period wrote me up yesterday. No, no, I'm just kidding, you know, it's my fault, my fault, you know. I know, I know. And it's lighthearted, but you still don't get that paper, you know, you still gonna get that work, you know, but they understand it. But I came to the civilian side, and you know, you can't do that because if you people will want favors, they'll be bent out of shape as soon as you have to write them up, or it'll be difficult for you to write them up. And like once you start, I'm a I remember my wife had a friend wanting to get promoted, but was in the club with the same people, and she's like, you know, you got to separate yourself. Uh yeah, well, that's not a thing, but you all are social posting on social media and all this stuff, and then other people above you are looking at them because you didn't make it those public, so they're like, Oh, nah, you don't want to promote her, you know, or him because they're in the club with those same people, it's not gonna be, you know, we're gonna have favorites and all this stuff. My wife has never befriended people at work until she leaves the job, then she'll do it, but she keeps that boundary, and if they're not at your level, your peers or maybe in a completely different department, they can't be your friend. I mean, not to that level. You can be friendly, but as soon as you let that one person oh, we catch a train every time together. Now we on vacation together, you know, all of this stuff. Next thing you know, they're getting the highest performance review out of everybody, even though they're a rag bag, because I'm gonna hook you up because you're my girl, you're my boy. And it's like you can't do that, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:53

And so this kind of goes back to that question. I mean, sometimes just have to for me, uh sometimes just leaving a position has worked, like I had to leave a position, yeah. Um, and that has has worked well for me because sometimes I just find myself too too deep and too stuck in certain things, whatever the scenario was. Yeah, and like I was so happy to move move on. Now, out here in the in the in the you know the regular world, that's that's not easy, yeah. And that's that's that's I haven't had to tackle that yet, but I'm I'm kind of curious to see what happens.

SPEAKER_01 28:28

Yeah, but for those that are looking like maybe you're in the space now where you've reached a point where it's too friendly, because at some point something may go south, and then it's like now you got to step up and be that leader, and it can be real muddy because it's gonna be like now they know stuff about you, you've ranged your mouth too much, all of that stuff. Yeah, now they like you're not cool. I'm letting it all now you want to chop. Yeah, you can't, it's like from the get-go, people. If you're jumping into a new role, put up the boundary, you know, people might have your number to be like, hey, I'm gonna call in or something like that. But other than that, you know, don't don't don't get all buddy buddy because at some point, nah, you know, and it can be it can be friendly, like let's say, you know, a wedding and they invite you, no problem, or baby shot, right? No problem, you know, things like that. But once you start really getting it, where you singling out somebody, all chilling all the time, it's like if something goes out, it's gonna be very difficult.

SPEAKER_00 29:38

Very difficult. Just having that the conversation of saying, hey, you know, we got to be more professionals, you know, people who get upset, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:46

Yeah, like to me, you know, like why are you not going to like because then what's gonna happen is oh, I need a little bit longer for lunch, you got me covered, or I don't have enough leave. Can you just like maybe like budge the numbers or whatever? And then if you get if you're in there, now you're in too deep. Oh man, yeah, we digress. That's that's another topic for real, it is. I'm telling you, all right. So now jumping back into it, what role does ego play in leaders not operating at that level? And I know, I mean, I've seen it where they they tend to kind of be like, I know I know everything and I know what's best. And now they start to tell people how to do their job because oh, I've done it before, here's the best way to do it. I don't for me, I don't care how I've done it before. Things change. You are new in the road, you may have a different perspective. I'm not gonna dictate how you do your job. All I care about is outcomes. That's it. So I'm a coach, here's the desired outcome, here's a due date. How you get there, I don't really care, but I'm still gonna check in what's going on, how you're going about it. You may ask, I'll give you feedback, you take it, you might go, I'm gonna spin it a different way. Cool, as long as customer service is fine, people are happy, and you get the desired outcome. I don't care. But some people, their ego is so they gonna they're gonna let everyone know on a meeting. No, I know everything because I'm gonna question everybody about all of their business, and it's not my business, but I'm gonna do it anyway because I know.

SPEAKER_00 31:33

Yeah, crazy. Ego makes you do things you wouldn't normally do, you know, like everything you listed, you know, just never admitting that you know you're wrong, or never um admitting somebody else is better, yeah. Not listening to others, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:47

It's yeah, just falling back, yeah. Fall back, don't don't run your mouth, let everyone else talk, and that's it. You just ain't and too, you just end the business too much. It's like why? Yeah, but it's crazy, man.

SPEAKER_00 32:00

Ego, why is it has such a big control on us? It's really weird.

SPEAKER_01 32:05

I don't know, it's almost like you know, like going back to that praise and always being recognized, and then you get out there and you want to let everyone else know, like this is why I'm at the level I am, because I know it all. I've done this, and I'm gonna make sure all of you know it. And it's like so they they like they like hearing themselves talk and they want to question everything. And did y'all do this? Did you make sure of that? Well, tell me how you're doing this, and did you write that down?

SPEAKER_00 32:35

And and it's like, geez, just loud.

SPEAKER_01 32:41

Yeah, so when it does, how do you how do you catch that early, though? How do you recognize that as an individual? Because I see people and it's like they don't know, like, unless somebody's telling them like you need to fall back, they are like in their own, they're in space and everybody's here on earth.

SPEAKER_00 32:58

So it's it's interesting. It's just something crossed my mind. So I have a friend who goes to silent retreats, and he said the most difficult part is controlling your ego, your voice, your inner voice. So, like, you know, you're you're trying, you know, it's a silent retreat, so you're not saying anything, but you're trying to clear your mind. Um, and these silent retreats, I guess they had there fasting as well, and I don't know, I'm not sure the details, but it's kind of like you're quiet, you're fasting. And he says, There's always you're trying to control that voice in your head that tells you, you know, why are you doing this? You shouldn't be doing this, you should go eat, or you should go drink, or you should, you know, you know, talk. Or so, like, there's always something whenever there's this comfort or whatever, this this this voice comes out and tells you what to do. Um, and he said the silent retreat, he tries to control that voice, and I think with the silent retreats, you start identifying it, right? Because I think that's the hardest part because sometimes it's just ego comes out and not even knowing it, and you now you find yourself like a jerk, right? And you're like, ah, I didn't mean to say that. Um, but yeah, so he the silent retreat says it gives him a little bit more control and it gives him awareness of how to control that voice in the back of your head. It's really it's interesting. So it makes me wonder if if he thinks, you know, when he's just when he's uncomfortable or or or angry at a person, if he is able to notice that voice come on, right? Right before it comes on, kind of like shut it down. So I don't know, maybe there's something to it, but I don't know. My inner voice can't do it. I don't think I can be quiet.

SPEAKER_01 34:48

I mean, sometimes like it's just like unleash the beast and that's it, because it's like my goodness, that's true. But what is the what is um like how does an ego impact performance?

SPEAKER_00 35:01

Yeah, it's all downhill, bro. Ego's rarely ever a good thing when it comes out.

SPEAKER_01 35:09

I to me, I think it it could stifle another team's performance because they're gonna be like, Well, you're gonna tell us how to do it anyway, so why do I need to uh really be creative? Why do I really even need to present anything where you're just gonna be like, no, you should do it this way? Well, no, and and it's just like you want something to pick apart, like it's not like you're gonna create anything new, but if I create something, you're just gonna be like, no, no, and really just dictate the whole thing. Well, then do I need to put forth a whole bunch of effort to make something which I think would be the best product that I can create when you just go and make it your own, well, then I might as well half-ass it and then let you say it anyway.

SPEAKER_00 35:53

Man, here's another way of looking at it.

SPEAKER_01 35:57

All right, drop it on me.

SPEAKER_00 35:59

Ego could be used against you, right? I'm sure I don't know. I've I've seen bosses that love themselves, they love to say, you know, like, ah, this was great, I did this, or love to hear themselves speak, right? And they just want to be praised. Guess what? Like, if you catch on to that, like now I could, you know, praise this this leader and get whatever I want, right? Because that's what they want to hear. So uh, so it's it's it's interesting. They're like, oh, you know, such and such great decision, you know. I I think you know, I think you're right in what you're saying, or I think that was a good good point, right? So now they see a an ally in you, but really you're you're manipulating them, right? You're manipulating the boss in a way, and to get what you want out of them, or to get favors. So I think that's the dangers of ego that others could use against you.

SPEAKER_01 36:56

Damn, very true. So, how would the leader above them like how should leaders, if they just see someone with a big ego? And I think you've mentioned this before, but how do they intervene? Like, I mean, for one, they gotta be either listening to feedback or in the same meetings where they can see it and hear about it. But what do they do?

SPEAKER_00 37:19

I think we've we've talked about this, and I think we have similar approaches, right? I think you pay attention to patterns and behaviors of people, just try to identify if if there is an issue, right? And then once you identify that if there is an issue, you kind of take them in and talk to that person one-on-one. It's like, hey, listen, you know, great performer, but your ego is coming across as a jerk, you know, or you're coming, you know, you're not you're not coming across as a team player, or that's how others perceive you, right? And then you kind of once you try to show them that how they're being perceived, because sometimes people don't know, um, hopefully you encourage them to kind of go back to their peers or their supporters and say, hey, you know, now that you're aware of this, you need to go back and just kind of mend those relationships a little bit because you people do not like you. I mean, just I would have to be pretty blunt with the person. People do not like you, you know, you're coming across as rude and know it all. Um, you may not mean it, but that's how you're coming across. And I'd probably kind of something you'd have to go back and and then earn the trust of your peers and your subordinates and and talk to them about it, you know. I think that's the best way in my eyes. What are you thinking?

SPEAKER_01 38:39

No, I agree with you. That the as you're talking now. The thing I think about is what happens if they don't. So what happens if you're coaching them and you're like, look, you need to get off your high voice. Oh you need to do this, and they don't. Like you're trying to intervene, you're trying to coach them, which that's what a senior leader should do, just as you said. What happens if it's just like they don't? Their ego is just so do you then document it? Do you actually write them up? Do you it's like, look, yeah, you know, at the end of the day, if this is impacting the rest of the team, trunks, like you're becoming your ego is turning into what we may want to call is toxic, and then it's like at a certain point, you know, we're gonna have to love you from afar and send you on your way.

SPEAKER_00 39:32

No, I agree. I think you try to carrot first, right? Just coaching and mentoring, and then it's the stick, you know. It's it's yeah, I don't see a problem with that.

SPEAKER_01 39:43

Not one bit, no, me either. And so I guess we'll finish with this then. What systems prevent this issue? To me, in the military, I think the schoolings that we go to help to not so much the ego, but I think going back to our ultimate point of operating at your level, I think this is what kind of helps you because you you you stay in your lane. Military, we always say, you know, scan your lane. So you stay in your lane, you focus on your job. And it doesn't mean that you won't have an ego in your job, and you know, and maybe the leaders at least say something about that. But I think as you're moving into a leadership space, one of probably one of the best things you could do is probably have a coach. I think. I don't know that there, you know, you could go to you know, take classes and courses and things like that, but as you put those things into practice, I think a coach can help to help reel you back in where you're like, hey, this is what I'm gonna do this upcoming week or whatever. Here's the things I'm facing with employees or leaders, and if it's something someone that's really been in a space, really owned leadership, they can kind of help coach you through that, where it's like, you know, maybe you want to give a little bit, but not too much, and kind of help you, you know, navigate the situation.

SPEAKER_00 41:14

Yeah, no, you're right. Um, I I look at it a little differently. I like coaching, uh, but I think not everybody has that. Uh I guess they can have mentors, right? So a mentor can choose well. That's true. Yeah. Um, but I think there's there's already a system in place that people would probably do not use and do not like using is uh a 360 feedback. I I'm a believer in it, honestly, although I am scared of it. That's what I'm really scared. Yeah, like I mean, it's it's it's scary in a way because it's like ah yeah, yeah, you know, how am I gonna take feedback? You know, it's it's not easy, you know. That's the hardest part about it. And I think that's why a lot of people just don't do it because I'm like, man, I do not want to know. That's like a something.

SPEAKER_01 42:08

Yeah, especially when you think that you're doing a great job. Like, uh I think that like for me, I've learned to take feedback, you know, where I'm just like, okay, okay, you know, uh, but I also know from and you can always get better, and I can I'm sure I can always do better, even in my current state. I'm sure there's like you can always, but I think I'm a very effective at what I do. So when someone's like, I mean, in the military, I was bad at this man. I would flip out or somebody told me I did something wrong because or they didn't like it. Man, I'll be pissed. I'll tell you a story. We got a little time. I remember we were about to prep for going to the field. So for those that don't know the field, you're going out there and you're playing board games basically out in some wood line somewhere. So I'm prepping, we got alerted, so I'm going up and down this hill, literally up and down a hill, prepping, getting everything staged, ready to go out. I get everything, I think I did a great job. So then this master sergeant, and I was a staff sergeant at the time, I may have told the story. He comes down, he looks at everything, and I mean, I'm thinking it is great. He comes down and he says, Sorry, you didn't earn your money today. This is not what I was expecting. This should have been like this, this, this, and all of this, and just digs into it. Oh, really? Yeah, and I'm just shocked, and I got so mad, and I was like, What? I've been up and I'm yelling. I'm like, I've been up and down this hill like all day long, prepping this, that, all of these things while he's been sitting in the office. And I went off, and I was another staff sergeant next to me. She's grabbing my hand, like yanking it, like, be quiet, be quiet. Because he's two ranks higher. And after I said everything I had to say, he was like, All right, sir, I'll let you have. That one. And I said, You're gonna let me have this one, and any other one. I was so mad. So I could have, I mean, for those that don't know military ranks, I could have been hemmed up for sure. Going off yelling at him, that would have been my I could have I could have easily got demoted, and um, but I was just like, nah, you're not you're not doing this to me.

SPEAKER_00 44:24

That's interesting. So I wonder if he saw you as you being too cocky, and he's trying to put you down a peg or two. I could be it, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:33

That's probably been it, could have been it, but I mean, I prided myself on literally being the best, and maybe he was exactly I can see it because you're cocky. I was like, nah, dude, I didn't know what that you're talking about, and probably that's why he was kind of cool about it, honestly.

SPEAKER_00 44:55

This makes sense to me. Think about it, honestly. Yeah, yeah, he was kind of putting your ego in check.

SPEAKER_01 45:03

He did. I mean, I was I was yeah, but to your point, like feedback the 360, yeah. I mean, you gotta willing to embrace that though, and see that's the point I'm gonna now. I will truly, I mean, as long as it's supported with for me, I got to the point with the facts. You can say, here is 100% how what I don't want is hearsaying, people said nah that that's not gonna cut it. Like, unless the people are doing 360 feedback and the people are giving it to me, then no, you know, or someone told me someone out of how many that's not gonna cut it. Someone is like, please, please try again, and you just gotta have your ducks in a row, you gotta have clear examples, and and sometimes they don't, you know, and it it is just perception and this kind of thing, but I want something that I can measure, I can look back on, I can improve from, and deliver a different outcome. Because if you're saying in the meetings, in meetings, you tend to okay, so now I can look back at those meetings, I can reflect on it, I say, okay, next time I go in these meetings, I know I need to take a different approach. Or when we're in a group session, you tend to, and it's happened on these separate occasions. Okay, dang, I can reflect on it. All right, you know, I got I got something to work with. Or maybe in a best case scenario, someone actually that was participating and outside of my chain comes to me and says, Hey, you know what? The way you said that in the meeting, I mean it just came off really harsh, or you you were unprepared, or something like I'm just giving you as friendly advice. Damn, okay, all of that you could work with. Yeah, but if it's like hearsay and all of this stuff, it's like, what am I supposed to do with that? How am I measuring that? How can I improve from that where it's not concrete, you don't have any examples of when it's like, what am I gonna do with that?

SPEAKER_00 47:12

Yeah, I mean, now if somebody heard something and like, hey Larry, I heard this, just FYI, you know. Uh yeah, that's different.

SPEAKER_01 47:21

That's different, yeah. That could happen. But I'm talking about like if you get like a uh maybe a performance review or something, it's not like it's like no, yeah. What can I do with that? You know, I'm gonna get that.

SPEAKER_00 47:35

Yeah, that's crazy to me. You know, people don't confront stuff like at the at the beginning, you know. Okay, you heard something, why don't you say something now? Why are you in this long to bring it up? You know, it's it's it's so like you've been you've been pissed off for the past two months, eight months, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:52

Whatever, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:54

This this would have been easily solved, like this is a misunderstanding, like you would have solved like the day of, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:00

And it's like, and I mean I've had people come up months later, and it's like yeah, that's crazy. I mean, if it wasn't important, then then why is it important now? It's like let's just keep it moving.

SPEAKER_00 48:14

That's true, that's a good point. Yeah, if it's not important, then why is it important now? Yeah, that's true.

SPEAKER_01 48:20

I don't know. So we're wrapping it up. Leaders not operating at their level. So, people out there listening, have you encountered leaders not operating at their level? What impact has it had on you? Of the topics we've covered, are you one of those leaders that find yourself like, dang, I might need to check my ego? Maybe, maybe they're talking to me. Are we are we hitting you in the heart? Are we talking to you? Don't be shy, drop a comment, you know. Let us know. Because I mean, can you admit to it? Maybe that's the first step. Can you even admit to it and be like, dang, I'm guilty of it? Yeah, but then it's how are you going to recalibrate? What does the impact have on you, your team, those around you cross-functionally? And some people, you know what, they just they got the ego. You know, people in the office, they walk around, their nose is up here, and you can't tell them anything, yeah, until they're no longer with us, and then it's like I guess I should have listened. And sometimes that happens, you know, people end up getting terminated, and that's when reality hits. And they go into the next one, they're like, That's true, I'm not gonna go in there like I did before.

SPEAKER_00 49:32

But yeah, so you gotta be open for feedback too, right? Like, if if people don't see you as an approachable person that that that welcomes feedback, then yeah, you're not gonna find out until you're fired, right? And that's that's too late.

SPEAKER_01 49:44

Yeah, very true. All right, by the way, thanks for tuning in. Oh, go ahead. I'm not go ahead by the way.

SPEAKER_00 49:54

Must must have known my drill sergeant. Really? Oh, yeah. My first army physical fitness test was in basic training. Now, mind you, I knew I was going to basic training like almost a year out. Like, I signed up that early, and I was like running push-ups, sit-ups. Like, I swear I could do a hundred push-ups before I even got to basic training. Damn, and this drill sean, man, he must have seen my ego a mile away because he got he was watching me do push-ups. He goes, one, one. I was, I was, he was mental breaker right there.

SPEAKER_01 50:39

You're literally, it goes from your brain to your muscles, they now shock, they hurt.

SPEAKER_00 50:47

Oh man, I went from making doing a hundred push-ups for basic training, I think, down to like maybe 20 something because he did not count that many, and I gotta admit, it was my ego is that was there. Uh, because I knew, right? Like, I knew I could do push-ups, man. So yeah, I don't know what it is, you know. Back old school people used to just kind of like want to take you down a notch like that.

SPEAKER_01 51:11

That's oh I mean, yeah, they used to want to bring you to you know, humble you a little bit. Yeah, I know 100% people. If you once they say one, one, one, go to your knees, man. It's like you are just pushing now. The next time you start back up, you're gonna feel this pain in your chest, your arms you didn't have before. You're like, what happened? And you're barely gonna be able to make what you could make before.

SPEAKER_00 51:38

Yes, get it. Your anger. Oh my god, just oh yeah, so you're looking at them like you're the problem.

SPEAKER_01 51:49

I need another reviewer.

SPEAKER_00 51:54

Oh my god, that is so true, man. That's uh oh, back in the day. Well, thanks for bringing that memory. That I enjoyed that.

SPEAKER_01 52:03

That's all right. All right, well, there it is. Well, thanks for tuning in to Commander Corporate. If today's episode gave you value, do us a favor, share with a colleague or teammate who's ready to step into leadership. Don't forget to subscribe so you never miss an episode. Connect with us on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts for more leadership insights and resources. Until next time, lead with clarity, lead with purpose, and always remember mission first, people always. And we will catch you next time.