🎙️ If You're in Charge, Be in Charge | Command 2 Corporate

🎖️ One of the biggest problems in organizations right now isn’t bad employees — it’s passive leadership. Too many people want leadership authority without leadership responsibility. If you’re in charge… then be in charge.

🎯 Key Takeaways:

🔹 Leadership avoidance creates organizational instability.
🔹 Silence from leadership is still communication.
🔹 Employees lose trust when leaders delay hard decisions.
🔹 Conflict avoidance often becomes culture damage.
🔹 Strong leadership is not aggression — it’s clarity and accountability.
🔹 Leaders cannot delegate courage.
🔹 The higher the title, the greater the obligation to communicate and engage.

🗣️  Like, subscribe, and comment below—What have been your experiences with leaders, or people with positional leadership, and taking charge?

       You can find us on YouTube, Spotify, and Apple Podcasts!

🔖  #Beincharge #incharge #Positionalleadership #leadership #Command2Corporate

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Whether you're leading for the first time, leading through change, or learning to lead all over again, this space is for you. No fluff, no gimmicks, just real talk from those who've led through challenges, adapted under pressure, and thrived in the face of change. Welcome to Command to Corporate, where leadership isn't just taught, it's good. It's good.

SPEAKER_00 0:33

I'm alright, brother. How you doing?

SPEAKER_02 0:35

I'm good, man. I got my my grandpa mobile.

SPEAKER_00 0:46

Okay, I mean, it doesn't look that bad, all right. Fine. Still, I mean, all I can think of, it looks like a chat seat behind me.

SPEAKER_02 0:57

So for those that don't know, I bought bought myself uh a 2025 Honda Goldwing bagger, so it didn't have the trunk on it. It was just and I ended up putting on a uh a driver's backrest. But I wanted the trunk in Matt Black. So I had to get it. I put it on there myself. I should have had a picture, I'll share with the share with the people next time. But uh yeah, I put it on there, got it all mounted up. I'm loving it. It's just so convenient. That's what I love about first of all. I get two extra speakers that are upgraded, so the sound is riding, and then it's just so I don't have to like try to stuff it in the saddlebags on the side, it's just pop the trunk, put the whole helmet in, whole jacket in, plenty of space, shut it. I'm done.

SPEAKER_00 1:45

Walk away. I guess. Well, like you know, I've had crotch rockets, like there's no it's it's okay if you don't put your helmet in a box, right? It's it's fine.

SPEAKER_02 1:56

Yeah, true, but it's okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:58

This doesn't look too bad.

SPEAKER_02 2:00

Yeah, all right. I actually ran into I dropped my son off at work today, uh, and it happened to do as I pulled the parking lot's empty, it was early this morning, and I looked to my left, and there's a dude with a gold wing, and it looked fairly new. So he was showing some other dude. So I was like, hey, well, you know, uh, what years you go when he said 20 50th anniversary, except his was a tour model, it was the Burgundy, so it had the old man look. Um but he got his was uh the manual, but it had a lot more uh just the only thing different. Manual had the center um stand. There's one that goes in the middle of the bike, so you just prop it up straight. It also has the side, but it has both, and then it has the back AC control seats in the back. Yeah, you can cool in the back. Yeah, you well, the seat you can cool and heat the seat back and cool it at least, something like that. So I saw those controls, which I could add on to the bike if I wanted to, but I'm not gonna do all that. But he did have engine guards and um saddlebag guards because you know the engine sticks out to the side, and if you drop your bike, you can crack it. And if you crack it, you know, that's gonna be a shit ton of money. So he said he got it from some brand called T-Rex, and I looked them up. Pretty reasonable pricing. I said, Well, I think I'll do that at least because I would not I would hate to drop it and then have to spend way too much money on something like that.

SPEAKER_00 3:34

So I said, I think that's those are just pegs, right? Like peg looking things.

SPEAKER_02 3:39

No, they're brackets, no, they're brackets, they really but they put a like a little bit of a curve on the engine. So if you drop it, it's gonna hit the metal brackets, not the engine, and then on the back, if you drop it, it's not gonna hit the saddlebag, it's gonna hit the gotcha thing. So I was like, all right, I'll go ahead and get those because it's like 500 bucks or something for both really, yeah. It's pretty inexpensive.

SPEAKER_00 4:04

So I didn't say really as in like that's inexpensive. You thought it was expensive?

SPEAKER_02 4:09

Yeah, I'm letting I'm getting letting my bougie out. I'm sorry. You're right, it is expensive. I didn't think it's that bad.

SPEAKER_00 4:20

Well, I guess compared to the price of the bike, sure.

SPEAKER_02 4:23

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I've seen other parts. Well, I looked at well, maybe because I'm comparing it to another brand that makes four, and it's like twice as much.

SPEAKER_00 4:31

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_02 4:32

Okay, that was expensive. So I guess I was comparing the two, and I'm like, that's not bad.

SPEAKER_00 4:37

So yeah, because I think for crotch rock is to have like just little plastic pegs, you know, that you just grew on, and so when you lay it down, you it hits the peg and not the not the body of the bike at all. So that's what I originally was thinking.

SPEAKER_02 4:52

Okay, but okay. Now we just gotta get you. So I exchanged numbers with the dude, and I said, Hey, because I didn't know anyone else had a gold wing. And I said, you know, people want to run uh reach out. So we'll see. All right, yeah, got gotta paired up with another gold wing guy, and then uh now we just gotta get you into something that you can hit the road with again. No crotch rockets, you know, leave that out the door, man. We'll get you a nice, slick, smooth cruiser, low. You can get you know, get you one that's like naked, don't have all the belts. Yeah, we we need to go check it out. I'm sure we can get you into something.

SPEAKER_00 5:28

Maybe I do want a bike. I give you that.

SPEAKER_02 5:30

Oh, there we go. There we go. All right, we're gonna make that we're gonna go check it out.

SPEAKER_00 5:34

Project though.

SPEAKER_02 5:37

No, no. No, we're gonna get we're gonna get you sitting on a couple of them, and then there we go. All right, so we'll jump into it. So today's episode, this is a bonus episode because we actually didn't have this one queued up initially. This came from feedback, conversations, all kind of stuff. So today's topic is if you're in charge, be in charge. If you're in charge, be in charge, and we're gonna jump right into it. So, when did leadership become more about protecting comfort than leading people? When did leaders more about protecting comfort than leading people? I don't know. I think I remember you know coming out, not coming out the military, because you know, the military is all about the people. Um coming out the military, I had that same mindset, and I would fight for the people, fight for my teams, fight my employees, and it was actually almost like looked down upon. Like, why aren't you here more so for the management, for the company? Like it just wasn't like almost like, oh, you're one of those that actually cares about people. Almost like you're not gonna make it here if you if you don't become a you know company man, so to speak. Where I would throw my I would throw myself out there for the people and fight for them. And and it's all about equality, you know, and and making sure it's done right and everything like that. Um yeah, that's just my two cents on it.

SPEAKER_00 7:12

What do you think? Well, like I mean, uh, I I think I hear you, but like I would I think this is more about when people become more friends, you know, they want to comfort their team as opposed to leading their team, right?

SPEAKER_02 7:28

Being a manager, that's yeah, that's true.

SPEAKER_00 7:31

That's the the kind of way I I took it. And you know, looking back at the army, I personally think the army got people gonna hate me for this, but army got soft at one point, right? Softer than when I came in. I'm sure everybody could say that at one point or another.

SPEAKER_02 7:51

Uh, I would agree with you. I would agree with you.

SPEAKER_00 7:53

And so I say it got softer when we started struggling meeting our recruitment goals because there were just several years where we just we were struggling meeting our recruitment goals. Um, another thing that didn't help is you know, we were struggling meeting our recruitment recruiting goals during war, right? And so the army started doing like more re-enlistment bonuses. You've heard like crazy reenlistment bonuses because we just couldn't get people in um or stay in, people were leaving, and so we started getting softer, we started giving out bonuses, we started treating it like a nine to five job, and that's when I started really noticing it in the army. People like past four, they're like, What do you mean we have to work past four? No, like I started getting pushback on that, you know. Me when I first came in the army, they're like, we don't care, you know, you stay till six, seven, you know, until mission is done. But it got to a point where people will start pushing back at like you know, four o'clock, hey, let's go, we gotta get out of here. You know, people started demanding an hour release early, where before it used to be an hour early for you know, doing a good job or reward or whatever, but it's become an expectation, really. Um, yeah, oh yeah. So, I mean, obviously, it all depends on the job that you're doing, right? So, granted, um, mine was probably more office focused than field focused, right? So, maybe that's that's my experience, but yeah, I think we gotten softer uh when we were struggling to meet recruiting goals, and and it the army started treating it like a nine to five job, and people got that expectation. Um, so yeah, we were so now we were trying to keep people in, right? Because even as a commander, it's like your retention goal, your retention uh re-enlistment goals, right? You had goals to make sure people re-enlist, and you can't piss people off if you're struggling to keep people in, you know, and you can't piss people off if you're at a war and you need people in, and you can't recruit more people in. So I think that's kind of when we started getting too soft, you know. But that's that's my opinion.

SPEAKER_02 10:10

Yeah, I mean, uh, going back to your point about people wanting to be friends with their like subordinates, maybe I do know that there's some leaders that lead by by wanting people or having people doing things for people to like them versus holding them accountable and knowing when to, you know, when you got to be firm, you got to be firm. But their approach is like, well, they just have to like me, and I just want to, you know, whether that's taking them out, inviting them to your house, going, you know, to an event with them, you know, and this is early on, like you may not even know them that well, but it's all or over sharing, or I think that's a big one, and you know, telling all your just just somehow to bring them in where they just like you, whatever you can do to appeal to that, thinking that if they just like me, they will do what I ask. And it's like, no, you know, they some people are going to take advantage of that because they see that that's all you do, so they're gonna run right over you. You tell them to do something, they ignore you, they talk to you however they want, and you're not able to get through. And because you are behaving that manner, you don't know how to then course correct because you've gone down the path too long. So now that would lead to the next question: why so many managers are afraid to have diff direct conversation with employees who are underperforming or causing problems? Why are so many managers afraid? And I mean, that was one of the first things you and I talked about. I really, if you're in charge, be in charge. Like if you gotta have a conversation, I think as long as you have the facts, you have it written down. But I think this was it goes to people don't know how to be in charge, they don't have to know how to be leaders. No one taught them how to do it. Where you and I come out of the military, you go through training, you go through schools. They you have this is you're basically trained on how to execute and perform. So once you're in there, uh we have monthly counselings. You know, counseling is just not like performance like you did something wrong, but just like a summary of your activities for the month, what went well, what didn't go well, what you could do to improve, that kind of thing, or like a holistic review of how the month went in the military. We call them counseling where that's definitely not gonna be outside of maybe one-to-ones, but these are documented in the military, you know, every month. Whereas in the civilian sector, you get maybe quarterly at best and hope that they get documented. And but in those, you could highlight things, but we do it in the military. We're gonna say you're either doing well or you're not, because so many people want to get promoted, so it's very structured. Here's what you need to do, here's why you're not gonna get recommended, blah, blah, blah. But I think when you have people that were never trained and taught, and then you're like, we're gonna make you a manager now, and now they got a hat, they don't know how. No, and it's just like, how are they gonna react? Are they gonna, you know, are they gonna start crying? Are they gonna get upset at me? Are they gonna get mad at me? You know, are they gonna swing on me? I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 13:27

Like, oh yeah, I've always had that, trust me. Oh no, but you're right. I think um, if they've never experienced it, so if they've never had a manager that that really was able to have those one-on-ones and have those tough discussion discussions with them, then they don't know. They've never seen it, they don't know what it should look like this should look like, and they think it could be like an extremely negative experience, but it just doesn't have to be, you know. I think you could professionally confront somebody's underperformance without it being like a such a big negative event, right? Because it's like, all right, here's your here's where you're underperforming, let's talk about how we're gonna get better, and and it's okay, then that's fine, you know. Um you're not going in saying you're underperforming, you're a piece of shit, right? I think that's what people think, but it's not, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:22

And I think if you have like clear goals, expectations, and you say, Okay, let's say I said T, you didn't hit some goal I gave you, and I say T, here's what goals. Did you meet those this month? Or by the deadline? Uh no. Well, no, okay. So that was clear. You did not, and if it's like, well, this happened, this happened, then well, did you communicate those things? Well, no, I didn't. Okay, you know, so now we can just talk and talk it out. So you did not meet expectations. Here's the plan going forward, you know. And at first it's just communication. Yes, we documented, but not like a writer. We're just gonna put it in something, okay. But then the next time it's like, okay, this is becoming a pattern. I'm gonna have to document. I mean, but everything is clear, and people will get, you know, you know, taking, you know, getting, I guess, adverse feedback, no one likes it. It's uncomfortable, no one likes to get it, it sucks. But I think if a leader sets the stage early, which is gonna lead to our next question, it it just kind of level sets. This is the way it's going to be. So then there's those surprises. Um, I can't believe you're writing me up. Look, I established that at the very beginning. And as long as you stick to it and stay consistent across the board with everyone, yeah, there's no issue.

SPEAKER_00 15:44

I okay, so here's what makes it difficult now that I think about it. So you ask me, like, hey T, did you do this? Or you didn't do this. I'll be like, but Larry, it wasn't me, it was somebody else who's supposed to do this, or I didn't get a chance to because you had me do something else, or so that's the difficult part about it. Um, which kind of really needs as a leader, you have to be prepared for, you know, like you have to be, I have to be at least mentally prepared for those like possibilities of pushback, you know. And it's not easy being put on the spot when somebody pushes back on you, and so I think that's probably part of it. If somebody had a bad experience like that, where they weren't ready to answer those, those, those, those pushback comments, then it becomes difficult, right? Yeah, but if you never do it, you never get better at it.

SPEAKER_02 16:37

Yeah, and I think this is where regular check-ins would help because before you finally got to that discussion, you hopefully those things come up. Yeah, well, let me remove this roadblock from you. What can I do to support you? Oh, I got it, I got it. Did we not meet these times? Did you not tell me this? Like I asked, you didn't say anything, you know, or maybe you did say something and I didn't listen. So that should be documented as well. I raised this, remember? You said okay, and whatever the case may be. But how much organizational chaos is created simply because leaders refuse to communicate clearly and early?

SPEAKER_00 17:21

Is mass chaos an option?

SPEAKER_02 17:26

Like I tell you so many times, like the house is burning down, and the leader is outside watching it and saying, like, well, I'm not getting burned, so I'm good. And just let it burn. Just watching it spread, and they're just like, Well, I could take this fire extinguisher, but I mean, I'm not in the panels and just stand over here.

SPEAKER_00 17:51

So true, right? Oh my god, yeah, absolutely. That that is a hundred percent a real scenario where people are like, Fuck it, ain't me. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:00

I mean, because they just because they don't want to be direct, have the up for a conversation, nip it. Like it's gonna make, I mean, almost like it's gonna kill them to just like I'm a I'm as a leader will be so uncomfortable to address this head on that I'm just not gonna say anything unless my job is in jeopardy and it goes to maybe my boss's bosses or something's heard. But if no one says anything and they don't make it a big deal, I'm just gonna whatever.

SPEAKER_00 18:31

Yeah, and just and then the the organization or the team gets led by the loudest voice, right? Whoever wants to say something. Sometimes the loudest voice is not the best voice, so you lose control of the direction culture of the team for sure.

SPEAKER_02 18:48

Yeah, and then you start getting the hearsay and the comments and the gossip, and and then the communication, I've seen communication between teams start to get like very confrontational, um, that kind of thing. And I mean, I've had team members like this is and I don't I don't use the word loosely at all, becomes a toxic environment where they don't even want to be, don't want to come to work. And I understand a lot of people don't want to come into work, you know, because it's like, oh, I don't want to, you know, I don't want to get up today, but to just like I can't stand these people, like it's wearing me down, I don't want to show up. And it's like everything taking everything out of you just to show up, that's a problem. You know, it's one thing's like, oh, I'm back in there again, you know, and you, you know, you go through the most, but when you're struggling because of the environment, that's a that's a bad thing. And I've had team members crying, upset, you know, the motivation is down, even me as a leader, where I'm not, I'm still showing up, still doing everything I have to do, but it's still taking a toll. So then my higher-ups are like, Where's that guy? It's like, hey, like, why am I gonna keep showing up like that? Is something getting missed? No, is something not getting done? No, but I'm not, don't think I'm gonna come up in here like this when you got all these fools around me and no one is doing anything, no matter how many times things are said, it's just like whatever. That's crazy, girl. Yeah, yeah. Why do some executives avoid making decisions until situations become crises when we just said it? Because they're not getting burned, you know? They just stand back.

SPEAKER_00 20:24

I think they hope that it's just gonna go away or solve itself, right? I think that's what a lot of people do. I mean, sometimes I'm don't get me wrong, sometimes I'm guilty of that, and sometimes it works. I'm not gonna lie, but a lot of times the problem is still there, you just don't hear about it, and then you think it just went away, right? Yeah, and so but it's still there, then just that means something's not being done or something's not being done efficiently because people are like they're just ignoring some portion of the process or just not doing something altogether because the decision wasn't made.

SPEAKER_02 21:01

And I remember asking this leader, an executive, like, how would you know that like a senior leader is not performing? And they're like, Well, we would look at metrics, and as one example, you said metrics or survey feedback. I said, survey feedback, I said, depending on how it's structured, that could be a good way. Um, if it goes up to the the next level up. I said, but metrics maybe not, because people want people want to keep their job, so they're gonna perform, you know, they may not go above and beyond, but they're also not gonna do anything to get fired. So if the bare minimum hits the metrics and keeps going, that's not gonna be a good gauge. It would have to be some kind of feedback or survey or inquiry where you're gonna ask, you know, what's going on, tell me, tell me how it's really going on, and then asking the right people. Because you could have maybe leaders under the room, like, oh, they're great, you know, no, no issues. But then you ask the people, and they're like, This place is on fire. Yeah, it's a hot mess, so it's all dependent. What message does a leader send to employees when everyone sees a problem, but leadership refuses to address it? I mean, those leaders are true. For one, everyone see everyone does see it.

unknown 22:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:17

And they just say, you know, they're not going to do anything about it. They're, you know, they're they try to do any kind. Yeah, it's like whatever, they're not going to do anything about it. You know, they they avoid conflict. So it's it's not going to go away. And people just kind of run amok. And that's it. And then or or it's said, but nothing changes. Because the leaders, the people that that leader engaged with, they don't respect them anyway because of how they are. So you go, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll I'll fix it. Yeah, I'll do better, blah blah. And they don't change the damn thing because you're not going to do anything and they know it.

unknown 22:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:54

If a leader doesn't care, people like, well, if he or she doesn't care, why should I, right? Or they see it as an opportunity where I'll just drive direction in my favor, you know?

SPEAKER_01 23:05

Yes, that's true.

SPEAKER_00 23:07

You drive, you know, direction in your favor, and then everybody else just suffers too. And then the leader's like, still not there. That's no problem.

SPEAKER_02 23:15

Yeah. I've seen some of those toxic people, they skip the leader and they go above them to their and they try to connect with them, and they make it seem like, well, that person I report to is actually the problem, or they try to get it where they have favor. Now they don't want to get rid of them because it's like, oh, now it's gonna look bad on me because you prop them up, but they're a problem, and now you can't remove them.

SPEAKER_00 23:41

Yeah. That's that's that's rough, bro.

SPEAKER_02 23:49

At what point does avoiding accountability become leadership negligence? I mean, I think from the very beginning point, I think so, too. If you don't, if you don't start on the right foot right off the bat, I mean, it's already negligence. I remember when I was in the military, I think one of my one of my first, maybe my first commander, first sergeant um combo at a unit. I mean, they were no nonsense, but they were fair. So, you know, they would, you know, greet people fun, but they would come down and and but it was by the book. And let's say you did something wrong. This is people probably never heard of this before, you probably have, and he was like, I'll have you out here cutting grass with scissors, and I was gonna first was known to, and I'm like, I'm not gonna do anything, I'm about to be an iconic cutting grass with and have to get it even. Like, oh hell.

SPEAKER_00 24:57

Oh man, I that was basic training, and I've definitely heard that people might think that's a joke.

SPEAKER_02 25:05

That's that's real life.

SPEAKER_00 25:06

Oh, yes, yes, that is that is real life. That's that's that's the funny part. People are like, nah, like, yeah, it's like this happens, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:17

But I mean, if you're not taking accountability from the beginning, and I think so many, no, I won't say so many, but there's plenty of leaders out there that let again going back to being my friend and being liked, and they connect with people, they bond with people, and then they're more like they lean one way versus the other, like they're not consistent across the board. Or you might have some leaders, you know, they just like someone and they just keep giving them opportunity, keep throwing them out there, forgetting about everyone else, whatever the connection is. You came from the same background, you worked previous consulting company, or you know, sometimes it's a traction. And the person plays on them and plays on it to get what they want, knowing they don't actually have your back. They could be a problem amongst others, but you're just totally blinded, just completely biased to them for no reason, and don't hold them accountable. And it's like it's it's it has to be fair and possible. Everyone can get it. That's what everyone needs to know with that. Everyone can get it. Having side conversations, talking about my weekend, talking about my dog, my this, my that, that has nothing to do with work.

SPEAKER_00 26:30

Yeah, I mean, as long as a person's a leader's fair, you know, everybody knows where they stand, right? They're like, okay, I may really, you know, fuck up, but like I know what's gonna happen because I've seen it done and my leader's consistent and whatever. So it I you know, it's it's it's good, it's good to know. Nobody's getting over, you know. Then you feel like, okay, we're all in the same boat here.

SPEAKER_02 26:53

Yeah. Okay. Why are organizations promoting technically strong people into leadership roles without preparing them to lead people?

SPEAKER_00 27:06

I think that's just a traditional route, to be honest with you.

SPEAKER_02 27:09

They don't know any better. Yeah, it just it's all over the place. I mean, we've we've talked about it before, and that it doesn't make sense. But they don't have a path to promotion. You know, they do, I mean, as in preparing you, let's say that they don't have a path to prepare you for promotion. And and for a lot of them, they've done the same way. And they think, well, you know, you you show up to meeting, you take charge, or whatever the case may be, or you're just really technically proficient, you can guide others in tasks. Let's put you in charge of people, even though you've never been, and just think you'll be successful. And it depends on what that person, not what, who that person has been exposed to, that'll determine if they'll be a good leader or not, or halfway decent one. Have they been around dirt bags? Yeah, most likely, and if they think that was effective, well, I'm gonna be a dirt bag too, because that seemed to work.

SPEAKER_00 28:10

And that's true.

SPEAKER_02 28:11

Since since my leaders show me favorite, I know who my favorites are, so they're gonna be my favorites. The rest of them can kick rocks, I don't care about them. Um, yeah, and that's what you get.

SPEAKER_00 28:21

Yeah, I mean, it's um uh doing just just deeper reflection. I think it's just expensive to be honest with you. I think about it now. Because like Army instills leadership and you know, taking charge when in charge from like a very, very early time in your career, right? Like, I remember coming in basic training, and then I don't know, like maybe week one, week two into basic training, I was made a squad leader, yeah, and then like that's from the start, bro. I mean, that's like 18 years old, you know. Here I am in charge of people, never been in charge, right? Um, but you are given so many opportunities to practice and be in charge and take charge. Um, and you're trained, you know. The the army invested a lot of time in showing you what's right, wrong, um, how to talk to people, how to manage people, how to counsel people, you know. Um, and so that's a lot of investment. So I think think about it. I mean, that stuff doesn't really happen in normal civilian um corporations, you know, and that's that's probab probably probably part of the problem. So you get a high performance team by a person that is really has is is is a good leader from experience or for reading about it or whatever. Um, so yeah, that's tough. I don't know, but I think it's investment in into leadership and management. If it's lacking, then it hurts.

SPEAKER_02 29:47

But I think about like when you talk about the investment and the cost, it's expensive. But you think about the military's approach of you know, you go to a school, you go as a group, you take your leaders from different places, you show up and you get some kind of training. I think if a company took that approach and it's internal, outside of paying the expense of them traveling, and of course the the course itself has a cost, but it's internal, it's developed, rinse, and repeat, hopefully expand it. So that would be cheaper than if each of those individuals went out and took a course.

unknown 30:18

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 30:19

It's probably going to be even more expensive because they're just finding and hitting your budget. So I think companies should really think about what is how can we take like fundamentals of leadership, bring it in-house, develop a team, have a training department or your talent management group or whatever, and think about doing that. But really building it out where people truly walk away with a good foundation of how to be a leader. Like walk them through things like having a difficult conversation, scenarios, role-playing, whatever the case may be, you know, how to do a write-up, how to reward performance, talk about removing biases, no favorites, fair and impartial for everyone, but focusing on that way, you have a better culture, better environment, more consistency. I think when they just again just throw people out there, you're you're not you're setting people up for failure on the leader's part and people. Because if you absolutely also that that the notion of like when people become promotable in the military, it's to me, it's like an automatic respect. They get promoted, you respect them off the bat. Because now they're a sergeant or they're lieutenant. It's just that switch. All right, sergeant, what do you need? Like off the bat. But sometimes when it comes in the civilian sector, oh, you know, you're my boy, you're my girl. Come on, man. I need to take some time off. Like, I don't need to put in PTO, just cover for me.

SPEAKER_00 31:52

But you know, like it goes back to a lot of times you respect the rank, right? Because you know what it took to get to that point. You know all the training, you know, all the schooling, you know, all the stuff that you've the positions you've held to get to that point. So they respect the rank. But like here, you're like, oh, you just got promoted for one reason, you know, it could be a good reason, it could be a bad reason. So it could be a good reason is like, yeah, he's an excellent, he or she is an excellent tech or mechanic or whatever, and like, ah, okay, I see why they promoted him. Um, or they got promoted because they knew somebody, you know, not somebody just said, Hey, I want this guy in, whatever. Um, so it's you never know, right? But like in the army, you respect the rank because it's like not only you're good at you're technically good, but you're you know, tactically proficient, you're you're a good leader, you've managed people before, you've had these positions that are difficult. Um, and so you kind of automatically say, Okay, yeah, I respect that. You know, they've they've they've they've done their time, you know.

SPEAKER_02 32:55

And that's a good point because you know, when you end up going to a school, you leave your unit and you go away for a certain amount of time. So then they know that you've put in some kind of training and work. So when you come back, there's a respect that you've done that also viewing you a little different now because it's like you've actually put in that time. Yeah, gone, and so they they think, how was it? You know, I can't wait to get there and then I go because some of those schools are you know anywhere from two months to six months, you know, and it's it's it's a lot to go through.

SPEAKER_00 33:30

Yeah, I feel like the shorter the school, the more intense it is, usually true, yeah, because they got to cram so much in, you're right.

SPEAKER_02 33:38

All right, how do passive leaders unintentionally empower toxic behavior inside the organizations where they don't do anything? You know, they just to me let it let it run amok.

SPEAKER_00 33:50

Yeah, and so that's what happens, right? Kind of the loudest voice takes over, and that loudest voice maybe operating in their own interest, and they're not really a great leader. And so by by being passive, you let other people take charge, you know.

SPEAKER_02 34:06

And let me tell you, I think one of the craziest things I've heard is where a leader says, you know, maybe I bring up a situation and they're like, Well, why are people saying this about you? I don't know. What do you know about me? You talk about rumors and gossip? What do you ex leader know? Have you been paying attention? Have you been listening when I come in here to these one on one to tell you? I mean, to have a leader like question, I had one time question like what I almost like I was a uh oh, I remember the leader told me that I was uh a status quo person. And I was like, people look at you as status quo. I was like, status status quo. I said, okay, hold on a minute, I'll be back. And so after the meeting, I set up another one and she thought I was prepared to quit. And I said, let me show you everything I've done that has helped build the foundation department. I had a laundry list of stuff. I mean a laundry list of stuff, you know, all these documents, processes, systems. I said, Does this look like a status quo person? Because status quo wouldn't have done any of this. Oh, yeah, you're right. I'm sorry. Why why did you say it in the first place? Like, what excuse are you making to for other people? Like, what are you doing?

SPEAKER_00 35:30

Yeah, but you also gotta fight for yourself. We talked about this, right?

SPEAKER_02 35:33

You gotta you do, but why would the as a leader you're gonna take that that kind of like to me a passive approach? And or why would you do that? Like you chewed up to do that. Like, what do you know? You know better, and you're gonna come in here, come at me like that. You shouldn't know better. Well, I say you should, but they don't.

SPEAKER_00 35:54

Yeah, like no, I don't mean this in a bad way, but yeah, you need to probably tweet your own horn then a little bit more.

SPEAKER_02 36:03

Yeah, see, do you think about it? You think about it in the military? Did you have to tweet your own horn? Uh you took too long, it should have been like, yeah, always. All right, see, he's busted people, he's busted, he it's already there.

SPEAKER_00 36:22

When you write in when you write a support form, or when you have the quarterly or monthly, whatever, you know. I'm coming in with a list of shit that I've done, right?

SPEAKER_02 36:30

Yeah, you you should, but your leader should you also expect your leader to they shouldn't be clueless, they shouldn't be like, I don't know what you were doing. Like, uh, like how did you not know? Yeah, they have to have a little bit of ownership. That's like you writing your own review. I would want to contribute to my review, but to write it myself, are you not paying attention? What if they're like, tell me what you did, you tell me what I did.

SPEAKER_00 36:59

I don't I I've honestly I wrote so many of my own reviews in the army.

SPEAKER_02 37:05

Oh, yeah. A lot well in the army, I I didn't. I did not. Civilian sector, no, civilian sector.

SPEAKER_00 37:13

I wrote so many of my own reviews. It's crazy.

SPEAKER_02 37:16

Well, I think, I think, but you I don't know, maybe it's different because you know, once you get up to those higher ranks like that and you're reporting to like generals and all this stuff, I could see maybe they don't have I don't know. I would think they would make time, but I don't know. I don't yeah, no. I definitely remember. But when I look at the civilian sector, I don't you're not when I think about you know any any high-level rank in the military, you know, you got your captains, your majors, you know, that being exposed to their level of responsibility. And you the higher you go, the more it is. Lieutenant Colonel, colonel, first sergeant's command sergeant majors, sergeant majors, generals, each level of general, or all of that. I'm like, I can see that you're busy. I could truly would say you are busy. But when I look in the civilian sector and I see these people, I'm like, you're not busy. There's no comparison, I don't think. So there's no reason why you can't make time to have a review, document something, set a goal, do something, not just be like, oh, you're good.

SPEAKER_00 38:27

That's the review, you're good. So I still, you know, I don't leave any room for misinterpretation. So, like in my in like in my quarterly updates, man, I pack that thing, like I stuff it full of of achievements and the stuff that I've done, you know. And I've been told before, like, you know, hey T, you know, you don't have to include everything, you know. Uh just spent like 10 minutes on it. Do it, everything, everything goes in there. Yeah, I agree with you.

SPEAKER_02 38:59

And I think people listening, you should do this. You should make when you have an achievement, write it down. Now I'm telling my my current team members, if you have an achievement, put it into the review, make a note in there that way. When we go through a quarterly, you can say, I've done this, I've done this, I've done this. Put it in there. So when it comes time for that rating, you could say, This is why I think I deserve a five.

SPEAKER_00 39:26

Yes, yeah. You they may not remember, but I'm gonna remind you. That's fine. I'm gonna own my my uh my career, you know.

SPEAKER_02 39:35

Yeah, yeah, you yeah, you have to nowadays. I mean, I think it's any time, you know. It doesn't matter about this time, you should you should keep track of your successes, you know, because so many times you have leaders that don't pay attention, and then when you come time for that end of your review, they only remember the last three months. Yeah, what did you do in the first quarter is a lot, and they they will not remember any. And a lot of times they only remember the bad thing that happened, yes, the last quarter of the year that you did not dream. Oh terrible. What's worse for employees? A tough leader who communicates clearly, or a nice leader who avoids action and creates confusion. I want that tough leader to come back.

SPEAKER_00 40:25

We've we've we've kind of briefly said something about it, right? You having that that hard, tough, fair leader is good, you know. Yeah, it sucks sometimes, but like at the end of the day, you know where you stand, you know what if anybody does anything, they should know where where you stand with the boss, right? And they're he's he or she is gonna be fair. Um, punishment across the board and consistency, no matter who it is. Um, yeah, no, I think I have a lot of respect for that. Um, I also think those teams tend to outperform others, and you'll see it, right? I think I personally think you see it if you compare teams, and you're like, oh, this team is definitely performing better than the other, you know, because they're kind of like they're they're rowing and they're like they're all rowing in the same direction, and they don't feel like they're wasting their time or they think their effort is going unnoticed or or unappreciated.

SPEAKER_02 41:18

Yeah, and I think that even though a leader can be tough, it doesn't mean that they're not gonna like reward the team in some way, you know, do a team building or do a team happy hour and off-site and incorporate fun elements, whatever. That doesn't mean that won't happen, but for them to be, you know, fair, I'm gonna be I'm tough, but I'm fair, you know, like the drill sergeant full metal jacket. You will not like me, but I am I'm tough, but I am fair. I will take it, I will take tough and fair any day. Because I don't think anyone listening will say, you know, that they don't mind favoritism, you know, especially when it's not true to them. No one's gonna say that as soon as it's there's some unconscious bias, you already know. So, would you want the nice one that avoids action or does that kind of stuff, or the tough one that's gonna be just treat everyone the same across the board? Everyone is equally worthless.

SPEAKER_00 42:20

That's true. That's the way it feels sometimes, though. Yeah, that's true.

SPEAKER_02 42:25

Oh man, okay, we're gonna wrap it up with one last one. I mean, this we've we've been in this situation, so maybe so for the people listening, if you accept the responsibility of leadership, do you also and are you also comfortable with accepting the discomfort, conflict, and visibility that comes with it? And for me, I mean we both chose it, so we're like, yes, I'm gonna because it will get uncomfortable plenty of times, there will be conflict plenty of times, and you will be highly visible because that team, it is no longer as individual contributors about your performance when you have people below you, it's about their performance.

SPEAKER_00 43:09

Yeah, oh my god. So I I recently went to talk to some um new managers training, so some new managers get their training, and they're asking about end-of-year performance, you know. They're like, Well, how do you rate somebody that is trying hard, but they they're not really perfect as opposed to others that are barely trying, and you know, they're not really perfect either, or something along those lines, right? It's it's basically something that came down to do you reward hard work or do you reward like easy accomplishments or something to that effect? Um, and I was like, listen, I was like, this is your job now, this is your responsibility to make those tough decisions. That's why you're Becoming a people manager. That's why you're you're you're here. You know, it is now a change. Like you have to look at it individually, you have to look at it across the board, and you have to see, okay, I'm gonna make this decision and I'm gonna be okay with it, and I'm gonna sleep well at night, you know. And it's really funny because it's like people were given different answers on what the right thing is. I told them what I would do. I was like, yeah, somebody's working their ass off and really working hard harder than others. Yeah, I think I would reward that person, you know. Um, and people are realizing, oh, like sometimes I have to make the tough decisions. I have to be uncomfortable and owning those decisions, you know, because they see it in other people, they see in their other managers because they've been in a situation like, oh, I can't believe my manager, you know, rewarded this person. You know, they're they didn't achieve 100% or whatever, you know. Um, and so they're starting to realize, like, oh, my manager's done this or my manager's done that, which I disagreed with, but then they're slowly realizing that it's there's more to it than black and white. Um, so there's a lot of discomfort in in making decisions that are tough calls, you know, and as as leaders, you have to make those tough calls and own them and defend them and you know live with them.

SPEAKER_02 45:27

You know, that reminds me, if I can interject, when I was in Korea in the army, I had got an opportunity to work outside of my job as an S3 NCYC. So I went to battalion and I was working directly. Well, there was a master sergeant in charge, and uh, and I think there was a lieutenant, but ultimately the command sergeant major of the unit. And I would hear him go over to the DISCOM sergeant major, so battalion is lower than DISCOM, and he would try to fight those battles and lose and say, like, I don't want my battalion doing it, or I don't want to do this. And they're like, Well, you're gonna go to do it, and this and that. He would come, he has now owned the decision. He lost the fight, he's owning the decision. He goes and he goes in front of the battalion. He's like, Here's what we're gonna do. We're gonna go support this and that, and maybe they just came out the field and they're tired. And and and all they see is her sergeants are like, you know, they come on sergeant major, like, you know, they're trying to, and it's like, I don't want to hear it, move out, execute. And then once I got on the other side, and I'm like, no, our sergeant major is fighting, he lost, he just owning it. So it looks like it's his decision, it's not, he has no choice, but he never let anyone see that it wasn't his, like he fought the battle. No, no excuses, nothing. He owned it 100, set it, move out. That's it. And he would look like an ass. But I'm like, but he I saw him fight, he lost. I have every respect for it because he he went to bet for us, he just didn't, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:05

And he didn't complain about it, he's just like, all right, we're just moving forward with this.

SPEAKER_02 47:09

Yeah, yeah, and that's it. I think um you know it's it's it's just what you have to do as a leader, you have to own it one way or the other, and that's it. Go for it. Execute. So again, if you're in charge, be in charge. Some key takeaways, right? Silence from leadership is still communication. It's more communicational. Employees will lose trust when leaders delay making hard decisions. So if you take in too long, act swiftly. Don't let things fester. Don't let that if that house catches fire, go ahead and grab the fire extinguisher and put it out. Nip it in the bud immediately. Do not let it fester because it just starts become it just starts spreading. You know, think about you know, a poison or you know, some kind of aggressive plant that you just can't, it's just gonna start to take over, and it will destroy morale, it brings people down, and then everyone will be saying, Why are they doing anything about it? You know, we're complaining. Why aren't they doing anything about it? And then you get so far too far deep, now it's like, How do I do something about it?

SPEAKER_00 48:27

That's true, that's so true. That is very, very true. Yeah, it gets so bad that it's it's it's hard to get out of it, and it takes a long, long time, you know. It's something that would probably take twice as long as it took to get into that situation to get out of there. Oh, yeah, that's hard.

SPEAKER_02 48:47

Yeah, one key takeaway I put down leaders cannot delegate courage. That's true. That's very true. But some, but believe it or not, some will try. Some will try, they will avoid confrontation and would rather say, Let me bring someone else in to do it for me, and then that would be their way of delegating courage. So that's crazy. Leaders cannot, but those that don't call themselves leaders could, and they will, and it's a shame, you know. It's I don't know. One of the biggest problems in organization right now isn't bad employees, it's passive leadership. Too many people want leadership authority without leadership responsibility, they just want the leadership pay.

SPEAKER_00 49:45

Yeah, the pay that's it. That's it.

SPEAKER_02 49:50

And on that note, if they let's say they've gone up without any leadership, schooling, whatever, no leadership 101. Once they get to that certain point, why do I need it?

unknown 49:59

I made it, I'm here.

SPEAKER_00 50:01

Oh, that's true. That is very true. Yeah, that is very true, and that's a rude awakening, then when you're like, oh shit, like I have to lead now, and they don't know how to lead, yeah. Oh my gosh. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:19

Remember, folks, if you're in charge, be in charge. All right, well, thanks for tuning in. Y'all know the deal. You want to catch us again? Uh, we're on YouTube, we're on what Spotify, we're on uh Apple Podcast, we got some clips on TikTok. I've got to make sure I check those and make sure we're up to date on those. Get some more out. We got we got some YouTube shorts out there so you can get some little snippets, but catch us on YouTube so you can catch the whole thing. And if you like the content, definitely do share with some colleagues and friends, whoever, spread the word. Um, only if you feel moved to do so. We want some comments. We started getting some on TikTok, just a few, but you know, I want to definitely get some discussions going. And remember, if you bring up something hot, you know, we might decide like, hey, let's talk about this content. So yeah, so definitely drop up in there's no right or wrong answer. You know, we don't know at all. T has one viewpoint, I have a different one. We're coming together just uh talking it out. Um, and so until next time, leave with clarity, leave with purpose, and always remember mission first, people always, and we'll catch you next time.

SPEAKER_00 51:29

Thanks, buddy. Thanks, everybody.