🎙️ Who's Managing the Managers?

Why do organizations keep bad managers too long?

Every organization says people are its greatest asset—but what happens when poor management is allowed to continue unchecked?

In this episode of Command 2 Corporate, I explores one of the most overlooked responsibilities of senior leadership: holding managers accountable. Poor leadership rarely starts with a crisis. More often, it begins with small behaviors that are tolerated, overlooked, or excused until trust erodes, engagement drops, and talented employees begin walking out the door.

You'll learn why organizations delay action, the warning signs leaders often miss, how culture is shaped by what leaders tolerate, and practical ways to build accountability that strengthens both managers and teams.

🎯 In this episode:
Why organizations tolerate poor managers
Early warning signs every senior leader should recognize
The hidden cost of delayed accountability
How to coach managers before problems escalate
The role HR plays—and where leadership must step in
Practical strategies for rebuilding trust after leadership failures

Leadership accountability isn't about catching people doing something wrong. It's about creating an environment where leaders are continuously developing, growing, and earning the trust of the people they serve.

🗣️ Subscribe to Command 2 Corporate for practical leadership conversations designed to help you grow your influence, strengthen your leadership, and build organizations where people want to stay.

🔑 Key Takeaways
Leadership accountability must extend to every level of the organization.
Culture reflects what leaders consistently tolerate, not just what they communicate.
Poor management is easier to correct early than repair later.
Strong business results should never excuse poor leadership behaviors.
Coaching managers proactively is more effective than reacting to crises.
HR supports leadership accountability, but leaders own it.
Organizations build trust when accountability is consistent, fair, and timely.


📌 Think about the best manager you've ever had. What did they do consistently that earned your trust?

Now think about the worst. What warning signs did everyone see—but leadership ignored?

👇 I'd love to hear your perspective.

#poormanagement #managingmanagers #positionalleadership #accountability #leadershipdevelopment #dobetter #command2corporate

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:03

Every organization talks about leadership accountability. But here's a question that doesn't get asked nearly enough. Who's holding the managers accountable? Most organizations don't lose great employees because of one bad day. They lose them because poor leadership is tolerated month after month, sometimes year after year. Today we're talking about why organizations wait too long to address poor management and what every senior leader should be doing instead. Welcome to Command to Corporate. Okay, before we jump into it, uh hopefully everyone's doing great. Thanks for tuning in again. Uh definitely trying to get that viewership up. Uh yesterday was able to enjoy a nice motorcycle ride. For those that don't know, I I have a uh Honda Goldman. Uh Matt Black rode out with two uh colleagues from work, and we went out to uh Leakey, Texas to do uh some of the Three Sisters. Uh I had uh in going with one of the gentlemen who's done it before, I didn't even know about it. You know, I I wasn't that. I mean, I rode with guys before, but it was more local stuff like that, but not like true riding. So now I got this goal we am trying to get into true riding and really have long riding experiences. We ended up because it's so hot here in Texas, Central Texas, we ended up leaving. I think I woke up at three, left my house at four. We met up around 4:45-ish, and it hit the road. Um, and we went out, and all in all, the day was a good 12 hours long. And we rode out, stopped somewhere, I think in um, I forget, maybe at Fredericksburg, grabbed a coffee, then hit the road. It was dark for a long time before the sun came up. By the time the sun came up, we were well out there. We were good from the Austin area, probably a good three and a half hours away, almost four, and then we kind of stayed out that way. Um went and hit up the I forget the name of it. It's uh I think a Frio Frio motorcycle shop out there, out that way near Leakey. Really nice shop. You even been out there, check it out. I might be saying the name wrong, but I know it's Frio. Uh and I'll have to look up the name. I'll sure to drop it and share it. But definitely a great ride. Did 335, 336, those are there are maybe county roads. Um, but we did those in a little bit of 337. So those are the three sisters, those uh roads. Very windy, very twisty, but it's definitely a different side of Texas that I had not seen. I've been out to East Texas, West Texas, but going out that way, um, just the valleys of trees, the rock formations, driving through the rocks. I mean, windy, twisty roads. Um, actually had to cross bridges that were completely covered in water with the motorcycles, but a long day, but a great day. Ended up in Bandera, Texas. Small, quaint town, very nice. Lots of people out there. I was pretty surprised. They had a lot of events going on, but a nice little town, a lot of motorcycle riders out there. Uh, it seems like between car enthusiasts, uh history enthusiasts, and motorcycle lovers, it was all mixed up. A lot of quaint little places to eat and you know, bars and things like that. Uh, apparently they got a real nice uh live music scene down there in the evening. So it was a pretty nice day. And it was nice because we left so early, it was nice riding, nice and cool for the majority of the morning until about noon, one o'clock, and it started to get real hot. But by that time, I was like, all right, we're gonna wrap up, walk around in town a little bit, and then head back. So by the time I got back home, it was about 4:30. Um, definitely put, I think, about 400 miles on my bike yesterday alone, but it was well worth it. Enjoyed the ride, looking for our next one. Hopefully, when it gets cooler, so we'll have to wake up so early, but it was a good time. Anyway, let's jump into it. So, why do organizations tolerate poor managers for so long? Now, we've shared in the past and previous episodes. I know, share many managers aren't promoted because they lead well, they promote it because they perform well, very good individual contributors, and then somebody decides, let's put them in charge. Senior leaders often hope things improve naturally. So they hire these people, think maybe they'll get it together, things will start shifting and all this stuff, but many times that doesn't happen. Um, reasons leaders delay um in you know taking action when they actually have poor managers is you know, conflict avoidance, number one, loyalty, maybe, maybe the person has strong technical skills, so they want to capitalize on that. Fear of replacing them, maybe that delay, they don't know what they're gonna get, but I think it's worth taking the risk when people are poor managers, and maybe they do deliver high business results, but at the cost. And sometimes money trumps everything, so it's like, hey, you know what? They're they're delivering or their team, they're getting their team to deliver at no matter the cost. So I'm gonna just keep it going. And and sometimes results hide leadership problems. And when I say that, for example, you could have a, you know, when you think about a team of people, and people need a job, people want their job. If they're making good money, decent money, whatever the case, they want a job, especially in the times where now they they need their job, they want their job. So they're not necessarily gonna do things that's gonna, you know, impact their performance, impact their reviews. So they're gonna deliver. You know, they're not gonna say, well, you know what, everything sucked. I'm gonna just start to fall off and let my performance slide. Because guess what? You're at risk of being written up, being terminated, things like that. So they're gonna keep going. So those results of those people having a good people that have good integrity, good pride in their own work hides the leadership problems. So, you know, when we think about just the poor leader, the challenge is that poor leadership usually doesn't announce itself overnight. And I mean, we we know this, it can fester for a long, long time. So, what are the early signs of poor management? What do you think? High turnover, number one, people quitting, low engagement, people don't really care, people stop volunteering their ideas. It's like for what? You know, no one's gonna listen anyway, it's just gonna blind eye, blind ear, whatever the case may be. Uh managers who blame instead of coach, so they they will quickly say, and they kind of set it up where they don't take the responsibility. So comparing, let's go back to my time in the military. In the military, the leader owns everything. If something falls apart, the leader's to blame, and the leader will own that. It's on me. They're not going to say, well, it was private so-and-so, or lieutenant so-and-so, and blame someone else. They own it. What I've seen in the civilian sector is they try to separate themselves, give them the work, and say, Oh, it's their fault. But then, where where were you in this situation? Where were you in coaching and developing? Where did you document that? And sometimes it's not just coaching, it's mentoring. It's like, hey, you need to take these steps. Favoritism can be one of them, where there's such a favorite because you maybe hang out together or you kikiing all the time together, gossiping together, that that top that's a blind eye is turned to them because you like them, because y'all get along, because you gossip together. Ridiculous. Poor communication, they're not keeping people informed, people are blindsided, like things just seem to pop up, or not even be shared at all. Or you could have micromanagement, which I'm not a I'm not a fan of any of it, but to micromanage, it's like no. Employees become quiet instead of committed. So that's another sign of poor management. They become quiet instead of committed. Remember, bad management isn't always loud. Sometimes it's simply absent, it's just not there. You're looking for the coach. So the players are running plays, doing all kinds of stuff, but they're not scoring, they're not winning. And let's say they could be winning. So think about your own performance review, your own, you still have a job, you're winning. But to say, are we getting championships? It's not happening. Are you having that maybe a winning seat? It's not happening because the coach is not there. The coach is just simply not there, they're just absent. So when all of those signs, you got poor communication, micromanaged, tournament gets ignored, something much bigger begins to happen. And what could that be? So, how does tolerance shape the organizational or department culture? Culture isn't built by what leaders tolerate. Let me rephrase that. Culture is built by what leaders tolerate. So as they allow things, it starts to shape the culture. So culture is built by what leaders tolerate, what they allow. And then that becomes the thing. It's like, for example, I knew a leader, I would say she was toxic, and she cascaded that through her whole team. So fast forward, she exits. That behavior that that that has been tolerated is still there amongst the manager below, and so forth and so on. And that manager above is doing absolutely nothing about it. It just becomes like now, and then it becomes like just like air, it's just there, it's always happening. Doesn't matter what you say about it, it stays, and that manager is just allowing it. So then it makes me think, well, who's managing that manager? How, but then I ask, how would it? We'll get into it. We'll get into it. Employees watch what's getting rewarded, so that becomes like I'm seeing that if I behave a certain way or not, this is when the rewards come in. So it starts to shape and adjust and start to move into this potentially toxic culture. Employees also watch what's getting ignored. So it's almost like, you know, if if no one cares, what what do I need to care for? What do I need to care for? And one core manager can influence multiple teams, and I've seen that. I mean, I've been in a department where there are multiple teams within the department, everyone has their specialty, but because of that one manager that allows things to fester, it just spreads. And I look at it as the house is on fire. You got these different departments, they're all in different rooms, you know, trying to communicate. It's just a mess, and there's a fire in the house, the whole house is burning. But guess who's outside? That manager, and they're like, Well, I'm not getting burned. I'm good. So unless someone comes out running to me screaming on fire, I'm gonna just ignore it. They got a water hose, they got fire, they got a uh, you know, water hose, fire extinguisher, everything. Oh, it's good. I don't need to waste that, you know, because I'm not getting burned. Nor does anyone above me know that it's on fire. You know, no one's even paying attention. So I'm good, I'm gonna just let it burn. Trust begins disappearing. I know that for a fact. It's gonna happen. We've talked about that numerous times before, how important trust is in an organization. People stop believing leadership means what it says a hundred percent. And I've had people above me say things, commit to things, then when the time comes to act on it, act like they never said it. Don't follow through on their what I would say, promises, what they say, don't keep their word and blow right past it. And if you don't say anything, they'll they'll never bring it up. And they think you forget. That's the crazy thing. They think you forget. I'm not gonna forget what you told me. I'm not gonna forget what you said, what would happen, what I would get, and they just blow right past it. How many people have experienced that? Blow right past it, never keep their word. I I recently had a leader, it was involving actually in a promotion for an employee, you know, not too long ago. And it came up, and now, mind you, the year before I tried to get some promotions in, didn't happen at this time, and so then it was like, hey, the commitment is this person gets promoted this time, this promo, this person gets promoted this time. Great, make sure you put their name in. Great, kept reminding me as the promotion time was coming and that window. Did you put it in? Yes, did you put it in? Yes, did you put it in? Yes, and I'm like, wow, okay, I'm excited for the point, great. Then I checked deny, according to the leader that who I was verbally told, committed. This is what the plan is 100% support. And I'm like, what happened? Then the manager above me was like, Well, I never said that. I said that they could be in the process. So you kept reminding me over and over that they've submitted their name just to say I submitted them into the process. That that doesn't why why keep reminding me, did you submit their name just so they can go through and be denied? Why did you keep reminding me? Did you do it? As if if it's gonna the promotion's gonna happen, then when I raise it, oh, this is news to me, I didn't know why. Then it comes back as well. Who told you that? That this was gonna happen. You did. You told me it was gonna happen. No, no, no, I didn't, I didn't say that. Oh, that is that what they call gaslighting. I was like, oh, okay, okay. Well, you you shouldn't have commit anything to the employee. I'm like, of course, of course, you know, I can manage that, but you told me that you and the person above you were committed in this, and then you flip around and say, No. Are you not remembering what you said? But see, this is the this is where the trust would disappear. I can't believe what you're saying, and this becomes a pattern, it's a constant pattern. So it's like, okay, I'm gonna just take it as a grain of salt, as they say. High performers quietly leave, so that's another reason. Average performers learn this is acceptable. Why work any harder? For what reason? Why it's acceptable. Why do anything more? Why to try to help anything? This is acceptable. Eventually, every senior leader faces a difficult decision. So thinking now, I'm talking about in my just example I just shared, I had a leader above me, above them, that that's broken. That's broken, but who's watching that leader? Who's helping drive accountability down, better performance, actually address people that are in positional leadership roles to actually flipping and becoming actual leaders? How do you do that? When should senior leaders intervene? And so when I'm talking about senior leaders, I'm talking the person, the next person above them. And it could be the next person above them, it could go all the way to the top. It could be the C-suite people keeping the people below them, their direct reports in check and intervening when they there's grumblings and things like that. When should they? When do they? I see so many times that it doesn't even happen. So is it after an HR investigation? If there is one, is it after resignations? Is it after surveys? But then all of these things happen, but then when at what point? So you're like, surely it's gonna happen after that bad survey. No. 90% of the leadership team have quit and been replaced. You know, yet that same senior leader's still there. When are you gonna intervene? People are dropping left. The whole the team has 75% turnover below this other leader. When are the manager? When are they gonna intervene? HR has investigated multiple times, but they're still there year after year after year. So where where is it broken? Is it is it an HR problem? Is it the leaders above them problem? You know, you would think that they would intervene intervene when a pattern appears, but they're always there and there's no intervention. And it can go, like I mentioned in the beginning, months, but I see years. And if finally something happens. So leaders, so I remember asking a senior leader, I said, Who's basically, how would you know a leader is not performing well? Let me say, let me scratch leader, manager, or someone in a position of leadership. How are they not performing well? How would you know? So they said some of those things. They said a survey. I said, Well, what if the you know the people want to do a good job? So, you know, maybe a survey might catch it. Sometimes the way surveys are written written, it's all fluff. It's kind of hard not to get a good outcome. Some of y'all may have faced that. It could be, they say maybe KPIs, okay, but again, that's the team's performance. So they want to keep their job, they're gonna deliver. So that's not really maybe not the best measure. Because they're just not gonna let things fall unless they all decided to pick up and go outside and walk off the job to really say we need change. That would probably catch someone's eye, be like, okay, we need to check this out because they're refusing to work and they're disrupting the company. So you can fire them all, but who's gonna do the work? Or you get rid of the leader, or you actually investigate and see what's going on. But looking for trends and not isolated events, but the trends are there, and then there's still no intervention. So it's like, well, what's happening? So their logic might be, well, let me coach first. And I would say, we, you know, last episode I talked about the difference between coaching and mentoring. It could be coach slash mentor first, correct second, and then maybe replace. But it's like, at what point do you give up on the coaching or mentoring? At what point do you say this is clearly, I don't see things changing, you know, we need something different. You know, this this clearly isn't the person. And for those top people to take action and have an intervention, you know, being a leader isn't punishment, it's about accountability. Like you, especially when companies say they want a high-performing team, I think it starts with the leaders, the culture, what are we creating? But the leaders play a big part in that. You know, you can't just say, and I've mentioned this before, it's like a coach saying, Well, uh, go into the team, any sports team we had. We just had the World Cup, football teams, baseball teams, and the coach says, You know what, I want to win. That's like saying I want a high-performing team. So then, players, special teams, coaches, whatever they say, so what's the play? What's our playbook look like? Just win. Okay, so so what exactly do you want us to do? Like, what's our approach? What's our offense? What's our defense? Just win. And they walk off. What are you supposed to do with that? You want a high performing team, but how do we get there? And it's like, and if you can't provide some kind of guidance, nip things in the bud, get the you know, wrangle the troops, get the get things organized, structured, be very direct. I'm not gonna tolerate this and that. I mean, come on, what are we gonna do? So, what's The cost of waiting? Well, some of the things we mentioned before, turnover, burnout. People and burnout is a real thing. You know, people can quit, and some managers, good managers, you know, and I'm not talking about the ones that need the the managers, who's managing the manager, but you have managers that are really good and they're able to hold on to the people that are everything, but they're working so hard at managing toxic department, toxic co-workers, maybe managing the emotions of their team members and trying to deal with that, taking on all this work themselves. Maybe they're not being valued, you know, or not being appreciated, and that manager is still there allowing so much to fester. So that is a good person that would end up saying, you know what, enough's enough. I'm trying, I'm trying to talk to my boss. They're just as bad as the person above them. So who's going? Who do I go to? Who do you go to? And then with all of that turnout, turnover, that burnout, recruitment cost, and you constantly trying to find people, but then people start to get tired. The productivity goes down. It just starts to, I mean, people get drained. And they're like, yes, they're making it through, they're getting things done, but they're getting they're just getting by. You know, they're getting by enough to keep them out of the red. That's about it. And amongst the team, because that manager, you know, doesn't keep their word, doesn't manage all of this. I mean, their reputation is if you can't trust them, you can't trust them at all. You know, you can't trust the world, you can't trust them to fix it, you can't trust anything. So you're just like, I'm just here, you know, and unfortunately, you know, that's when people start to leave. And the and the best employees will leave, and that's when they'll feel it, you know, when people leave. And they may not care, you know, honestly. They might say, Oh, okay, well, and I've seen it, where they're just like, all right, all right, well, you know, I wish we could, you know, do something about it, whatever, but you know, it is what it is. Not realizing how much value the person had, how much they added to the team, you know, and to me, if the manager's manager, the person that truly should be helping to change that, recognizes and sees a key person, hears about and notice, that's where you should be like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. I know this person. Like, what is going on? How can we help? At least, you know, talk to the person, see what's going on. Replacing talent costs more than developing managers, and it does. But it's like if you don't have the skill, so going back to the very first thing where some people aren't perform, you know, promoted because they're like exceptional leaders, they just did their job well, but then do they even like you can invest in developing them as much as you can, but they also have to want to. And I think for people that are able to, you know, actually be a leader, lead from the front, nip things in the bud, eliminate toxicity in their department, set boundaries, be firm, create the structure, really hold people accountable, say what you want. That's a skill in itself. And some people don't even have them in it to do it, believe it or not. You can invest all of this on what it takes to be a leader, be strong, whatever the case may be. Teach them how to, how should they address uh problems, don't be afraid of conflict, don't try to avoid it, jump in headfirst, dive into the deep end, but that takes skill. It takes, I think there's a foundation in people. Going back to my very first episode where we talked about our leaders born or made, some of them you can't make them into that. They don't have it in them. Some people aren't even people, uh, a people person, they don't even care about people. So to do all of this is like just energy that they don't want to expel. And it's just like, you know what? And so no matter how much you say it, they won't do it. What they'll do is they'll hand it off to someone else to check the box, give a presentation, say something, have an outside speaker, all of this stuff, but they don't do it. So, how do organizations prevent this from happening? How do senior leaders hold managers accountable without creating fear? Expectations need to be set and they must be measurable, but what expectations and how do you measure them? Are you looking at as a senior leader? So let's go all the way up to the top, CEO, CEO, those are they looking at, you know, and it's not like you want to, some organizations are way too big, but to somehow get a roll-up of where are those departments where we have the highest turnover? Which managers have the highest turnover? You know, let's let's boil it up to the top 10. Why? What's happening? Because that's where your money is being lost, constantly recruiting for those departments and replacing people. So what's happening there? Or is it just about the bottom line number? We're making money, we're good, doesn't matter. Uh, what's happening? The house is burning, but we're still cranking out numbers, they're throwing them out the window, whatever they're making inside is, you know, it's a little hot. We're catching it, but it's together, so hey, we could still use that. Another thing that those senior people could do is regular skip level conversations. And I don't see this happen. I've only heard of one organization actually doing that. Um, and there might be others out there. I just personally have only heard of one that actually does it. Where, let's say, for example, the CEO skips his direct reports and goes to the level below and actually talks to the people. Again, some organizations are too big for that, but have real, you know, kind of rotating uh occurrences where you do have those conversations, especially when it comes to people that may have the uh with the feedback or the high turnover, whatever, the some kind of indicator, even as grumblings where you could say, you know what, I need to have a conversation. Put time on your calendar. You know, uh as a higher level person, even if it's you know quarterly, you know, I think it's worth it to hear what's going on, especially if you're trying to shape an organization. And, you know, let's say an organization, you know, trying to get to a high-performing team, high-performing company. So when, and I've heard of this in the past, where if anyone gets below a three, which usually average those ones, that's the bottom bunch, they're gonna get cut. But when you see low performers, you know, has there been an opportunity to coach those people? And sometimes they are, sometimes it isn't, but sometimes it could be from that manager down. Those some people we don't want to see, like I said, most people are gonna try to do their best to keep their job, but sometimes it doesn't. So you got to look at is it a targeted group? Is it are they in the same department, under the same manager, under the same VP, under the same SVP? What's happening? Because thinking about how people start to emulate and the impact of that senior person's behavior that influences or lack of action that influences a culture, you create toxic, you could create toxic leaders where they're all just sharing that same mindset and going down and it's spreading like a wildfire. You never know. 360 feedback, you know, how could they hold managers accountable? 360 feedback if the senior leader, the one above them, actually looks at it. But I've seen and I've experienced myself where like I've gotten I got feedback at one time from a uh I would say a boss that was in uh positional leadership, and so gave me all of this to me feedback that was completely false. I would say it was just completely false. And so I said to myself, okay, I took the feedback, made all the notes, I've learned to do that instead of reacting, and I would suggest everyone do this. We give feedback, write it all down, thank you. You know, let me reflect on this and I'll get back with you so you can calm yourself down, organize your thoughts, get the facts, and then you come back. I did that, and I had nothing but facts, and then it was like, Oh, I'm sorry, yeah, you know, no, you're great, yeah, your team is high performing. It's like, but then why did you say all of that basically BS last week? If you're like, I'm sorry. So and it was just it was, you know, I was trying to get it promoted, and it was just all these excuses, why not? But it was all to me false. When I came with the facts, it was I'm sorry. Oh uh yeah, your team is great. So then I said to myself, well, let's get this documented. I submitted a 360 feedback to which your boss has to be included when you send out the invite. So I would think to do it, if you have something to say, you might want to document it, or you might not. So that boss in that instant declined to give formal feedback. Mind you, in that in that position I was in for the I think first two or three years, did absolutely no review whatsoever, never documented a single thing. The reviews would be like, oh, you're good, you're good. That was it. That was it. But then where's the leader, the manager, holding the manager accountable? Where is that? So they could invest in leadership development, but again, with leadership development, people have to want to. I think some people, once they hit a certain level, they're like, I made it, I don't need this. And they, even though it's being offered to them, they're going through seminars and off-sites and all of this stuff. At the end of the day, like they're like, whatever. They're like, whatever, you know, I'm just checking the box. They're not changing at all. There could be coaching, but you have to have the right coach. I've seen outside resources, outside coaches come in and they are complete trash. But people don't know. So if you have not been exposed to great leadership, great coaches, great mentors, and actually know what leadership is, know what it's about, and no one knows what that is, how would you know it's not good? You'd be like, oh my gosh, I had a leader one time, and I've met I met this uh this external coach and on a totally separate team. Met him, he gave a spiel, the whole team was like, This dude is trash, they'll bring him back. Fast forward years, came across the dude again. This time he had already been coaching someone that was like, Oh my god, he's amazing. If you ever need anything, reach out to him. So instead of you taking charge of your group, reach out to him. And he was still the same trash dude. It's like, okay. How do senior leaders hold them accountable? Clear expectations, consistent follow-up, uh, reward leaders who develop people, not just deliver numbers. That's key. It's like, are you are you putting your people out there? Because sometimes you have great talent, but you don't, it's like you don't put them where they can be seen. It's the me show for some managers. And you can have people creating your whole packet, and they're just like, okay, here you go. And instead of maybe bringing them along and saying, Let me let them share this information, they put it together, they just read from it like they did it, never mention any other team member, keep it moving. So, and and from a level up, well, that person's the rock star. Maybe. What about the other people? You know, how can you pull them up, develop, showcase them, and not just worry about checking boxes and you looking good? So then this is where HR becomes one piece, but not the solution, not the entire solution, but I have a caveat. So, what role should HR actually play? So, HR shouldn't own leadership, leaders own leadership. So managers own the management. HR provides process, coaching, resources, consistency. Leaders, senior leaders must own accountability. You can't outsource leadership, though I've seen leaders try to do that and literally say, this external person is a resource. If you have a problem, go to them. If you're having team difficulties, go to them. Not me. Not me. But here's the caveat. What if HR is a problem? What if HR itself is toxic? What if they have issues? What if they have biases? What if they have favoritism? What if they don't know how to coach? They don't have a mentor. They're a toxic group themselves, where they're looking at problem children, supposedly problem children, people that are different, and you're like, oh, here comes this one. They start assigning nicknames to troubled people, you know, whatever they could be, whatever name they want to make up. But this is coming from HR. So it's just like, and I'm not talking about all of HR, it could be just like the people facing HR, it could be the senior leader of HR, you know. But what if they're the problem? Who do you go to? What if employees don't feel comfortable going to there? Because guess what? There's the managers aren't managing the managers, they they're a part of the problem. So then now we go back to who's managing that manager? Who's managing to get this whole team cleaned up? That could be the thing. So then there are resources within HR, and you have different groups in HR that may say, hey, this is what we are going to invest in talent management, but that's a whole separate thing. But then when it comes to helping coach and mentor employees that may be struggling, going through some things and getting them on the right path, it's like, nope, you want to write them up, good. I don't like them either. Come on. Am I preaching? Come on, I'm telling you. So when organizations finally decide to act, how do you rebuild trust after poor leadership has been tolerated? It's tough. Because I look at it when when people when things are like that, it's like uh bad credit. You know, when you have good credit, it's great. When you have bad credit, it's hard to recover from bad credit. It seems like when you have good credit, every week you get notifications. Oh, your credit went up, your credit went up, your credit went up. When you have bad credit, you will struggle for years to get to good credit. That's just like that. How do you rebuild that trust after poor leadership? I mean, first thing I think is, well, they got to be completely replaced. Once they're replaced, forget about them staying, replace them. If they let it go on for years, get rid of them. Have someone come in that can say, that can articulate exactly what they want off the bat. They communicate honestly. Here's what's been going on, here's what's going to change. Because I think in some instances, those positional leaders, they're just not going to have it in them. They're not going to acknowledge reality, they're not going to act consistently. They could listen before speaking, but they're not going to take action. They don't know how to develop new leaders. So what happens is they just, they're just there, you know? And they don't even know. They might celebrate positive leadership, but they themselves can't actually do it. So you're taking action on your own. I might actually build a high-performing team. So they'll say, hey, congratulations, Larry. You got a great team. But they that's just one segment. And it's nothing to do with them or any guidance of what they've done. It's me as a leader. It might be you as a leader. But it's like, but the people above, I'm just holding it together. I want a high-performing team. I want my team to deliver results. I want them to be able to act when I'm not present. But that's just what the efforts of my doing from my foundation that I've had, and that might be the foundation you're having. But as far as that other person, it's like, no. Trust returns through behavior, not announcements. So they have to see a shift. So that means people have to see action. Actually see action, things changing. So if things were to escalate, complaints come to you, there's a pattern, you actually do something about it. You just don't let it fester and think that it'll just, you know, the fire will go out on its own eventually. Eventually, that's what it is. That fire will eventually go out. And they do. But look how much destruction, look how much damage has happened to just let it burn out on its own. So when that fire burns out, what's left? Ash, rubble, partial things. So you could have, think about people, a partial team, because people have quit. You know, you had some high performance, some nice land, you know, big trees, those are gone. What's left is maybe some weeds. You know. Now new growth can come, but new growth is going to come when you go seek them out and go bring them in. I don't know. It's um who's managing the managers? And and y'all, I know plenty of y'all have seen it, you know, have experienced it, you're going through it right now, and you're just like, who's in charge? Who's in charge of this person? Who can help me? And who do I and then and sometimes, you know, you as an individual, you know, you don't want to ruffle feathers, you know, you don't want to, because you know, people have experienced it. When you say something, now you're targeted. Now you have a you know a target on your back. Now you're not gonna get you know promoted, or you're gonna get a bad review. Instead of owning it as a leader saying, you know what, you know, I'm sorry for this, that this has happened. I want to acknowledge, you know, I care about you. Let's see what we can do. Or you just do something about the situation, you address it, and not this, let me address the whole team crap. Forget about that. The whole team is not the issue. These individuals are an issue. Pointed, direct conversation. This stops now, or you will no longer be with us. Or you decide, you know what, I'm gonna love you from afar, go ahead and hit the door. I don't understand why it's so hard for just to take those actions, but it is, and it is it just lasts way too long. Who is managing the managers? Who is doing it? So let's whip out our leadership mirror. If someone interviewed every manager who reports to you, or maybe you're a manager and you don't have any managers below you. So if someone interviewed every manager or person who reports to you, what would they say you've consistently reinforced? Two choices accountability or avoidance. Think about it, reflect on that. That mirror, look at yourself. Are you do you preach accountability? Or you want to say, you know what, I don't want to deal with that. I don't like those conversations, I don't want to deal with that. Look yourself in the mirror, leadership mirror. Ask yourself those questions. All right, moving into our leadership challenge this week. Identify one manager you lead or one person. Ask yourself three questions. Am I coaching them or mentoring them enough? Am I avoiding a conversation that needs to happen now? Am I avoiding a conversation that needs to happen now? If nothing changed over the next six months, would I be comfortable explaining that to my team? Leadership accountability doesn't begin with difficult conversations, it begins with the willingness to have them. Who is managing the managers? Okay. Remember, lead with purpose, lead with courage. I'll see you next time.