Season 2 Episode 8: Church Revitalization with Dr. Anthony Svadja

Welcome to the Small Town Church Podcast, the weekly podcast where we discuss all aspects of being in a small-town church. Whether you are a member, on staff, or have just begun attending a church in a small town, this is the podcast for you. 

On this week's episode we discuss church revitalization with Dr. Anthony Svadja. Dr. Svajda oversees the SBTC’s Regenesis church revitalization strategy. The goal of Regenesis is to help churches in jumpstarting the revitalization process.

Dr. Svajda has served as lead pastor at Harvey Baptist Church in Stephenville since 2015 and has also served as an associate pastor, collegiate pastor, and student pastor in locations including Jewett, Colleyville, Keller, and Watauga. He received his Ph.D. in evangelism and church revitalization from Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary in 2018 and his Master of Divinity in evangelism from SWBTS in 2013.

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Transcript

Zach Leonard 0:01

Church revitalization is the process of leading an established church to a place of better health, typically with an existing pastor and without changing the identity of the church. Welcome to the Small Town Church Podcast, the weekly podcast where we discuss all aspects of being in a small town church. Whether you are a member, on staff, or have just begun attending a church in a small town, this is the podcast for you. Welcome back to the Small Town Church Podcast. I am one half of the hosting team, Zach Leonard, and we are really glad you guys are with us again. We're blowing through season two, as I say every week. It's moving a lot faster than we kind of anticipated, to be honest with you. I'll be honest when we started this a season ago, that um this uh this has turned into a whole nother thing than I was kind of expecting, if we're being honest. Um we just we uh we decided to turn on the microphones and talk about what we've been talking about, and it's it's really turned into something that God has decided to use, and we're grateful for that. So um as always, uh we're thankful for your listenership. If you have not listened to our past episodes, we invite you to do so. We've had some great um episodes or great conversations regarding everything from uh pastor accountability to whether or not a pastor should go to seminary to counseling. In and in season one, we covered all aspects of just overall what it means to be in a small town church. Um this season we're covering the overseer pastor role. And so this episode is one that is is timely because the in small churches uh there are churches that need revitalization, that need new health. Um, and so that's kind of what we're talking about today. This is actually um, and tell me if I'm wrong, Brad, but I'm pretty sure this is what you did your D-man over, right? It is. Yeah, so this is something you know well. So um we Brad Borgren is my is my co-host, and we're glad to have you here. Um, Brad, how are we doing?

Brad Borggren 2:06

Doing well. Thank you.

Zach Leonard 2:07

Good. Well, as I said before we hit record, this is not something I have a ton of wealth of knowledge on. So I'm gonna kick it over to Brad. Uh, he'll introduce our special guest and and they'll kind of talk. I may jump in where needed, and I may just tell you bye at the end of the episode. And I'm okay with that. So, Brad, I'm gonna kick it over to you and you guys just cook, as the kids say.

Brad Borggren 2:27

Yeah. Thank you, Zach. It's good to be here. Thank you, Anthony, for being here. We are joined with Anthony Svadja. And so I've had the privilege of knowing him, and and he's had to put up with me in different roles. Uh, from he was a seminary professor uh in some of my D-Men seminars, and but I knew him best through the Regenesis program, which which he's gonna share about. He uh he is uh on the staff of the Southern Baptists of Texas Convention here, our our state convention in Texas, and he is uh heading up the church and renewal uh team there. And so we're gonna uh we're gonna just Anthony again, we're just glad to have you with us. Uh we can learn a lot from you. And and again, as we've mentioned, a lot of the the topics that we've discussed, uh, they kind of float around the area of revitalization, of church health, of of what can we do as pastors and leaders uh to help foster not just growth in numbers, but ultimately spiritual spiritual health. And so, Anthony, if you just want to give us a better introduction of who you are and and why you're passionate about revitalization and regenesis, um, I'm gonna turn it over to you.

Anthony Svadja 3:44

Okay, yeah. So um why I'm passionate about church renewal and revitalization and all that stuff. I think the reason why I'm so passionate about it is one, God made me that way, but two, uh, I experienced uh renewal and revitalization in uh in two separate churches that I pastored before I started coming to the convention and uh doing what I do here now. Um I kind of know what it's like to be in that uh season of ministry wherever you kind of feel like, man, there's got to be something more. I know God wants to do something. Um, I know that He has a better plan for my church, but also feeling like I don't know how to get there. And everything that I do, it feels like I'm pushing a refrigerator up a hill. Uh it's just struggle after struggle after struggle. And so I think uh my main passion comes from helping churches live out what God is calling them to and seeing pastors thrive in the pastorate. Um, I know that today there's like a lot of discussion about pastors and mental health and you know how hard ministry is and all that stuff. But at the same time, I think that whenever we're working with God in his mission and we're seeing him work, the the opportunity to pastor and to do ministry the way that we do is such a blessing. And there is great joy and celebration in that. And I want to help pastors get to that point, and so um I think that's kind of my my passion and part of my reason for for leaning so hard into church health and renewal is because I want to see God work and I want to see pastors win, and I want to see the church grown, and I want to see lives change for Jesus, man.

Brad Borggren 5:28

Amen. Amen. And yeah, and thank you for helping me through the process of of just understanding more about revitalization, both from uh the seminary aspect, but also more importantly, the practical aspect, and uh and thinking about revitalization, you know, we probably all know the answer to this, and and it's it could vary, but what would you say are some ways when a church just really knows, like, okay, we really need something's gotta give, something's gotta change. Uh, how can we know that we are in need of revitalization before uh we get to that point that it's almost too late to to effect meaningful change?

Anthony Svadja 6:12

You know, I think that all goes back to what is leading your church. Um you know, there are several churches out there that just kind of lead out of what's comfortable for them, um, where they kind of go through a a season where it's just like it's kind of like that old movie Groundhog Day. Do you ever see that, Brad?

Brad Borggren 6:33

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Anthony Svadja 6:36

The same old thing. It's like every day is yeah, the same old thing. Like the alarm clock goes off, and then you wake up and man, what are we doing today? Well, it's the same thing we did yesterday. And when it comes to the life of the church, they kind of get into that rhythm too. Well, what are we going to do this month? Well, what did we do this month last year? And how do we copy and paste that?

Brad Borggren 6:56

Right.

Anthony Svadja 6:57

You know, um, it it just comes as this lifestyle of repetition of doing the same old thing, the same old way, because that's the way we've always done it. And um, so I I think that's one of the ways that you know you need uh an element of revitalization or health uh without being like absolutely in the gutter with it. I think another way that you you do this is that you um you figure that your comfort is driving the church more than anything. Like you're resistant to do anything new. Um, you're resistant to walk out in faith or expect big things. Um, a lot of times a church that's in an unhealthy situation, they'll make excuses for being obedient. And what they'll do is they'll just say, well, you know, that's not gonna work. We've tried that before. Or, you know, that's not gonna work because, you know, our people won't get involved and nobody will show up for it, or that's not gonna work because that's not what our community is, or or something like that. Now, there may be an element of truth in some of that, but at the same time, like just resisting to do anything is a problem for a lot of churches. And so, again, if there's a resistance to change, if there is um an element of doing the same old thing the same old way, because that's what's comfortable, then I think you got a problem. You know, I think God calls us to bigger things. Um, He doesn't call us to a specific method or a program of doing things, He calls us to a commission, the Great Commission, to get things done. And um, and so as I think about like the ministry life of the church, we're called to be a people who are flexible and not ruled by past programs or traditions or anything like that. Uh, we're called to be a people who follow God, even when it makes us a little bit uncomfortable. And so I think that could be a few things that you could just kind of, you know, maybe measure. Are we following God or are we just kind of doing the same old thing because it makes us comfortable? And are we willing to do anything to seek God move, or are we resistant to change even before we do anything? You know? Yeah.

Brad Borggren 9:05

Yeah, that's good. I I think one of those key, key ideas we we've hear a lot and we've probably talked about some, when you lose the focus on on outreach, on evangelism, on discipleship, you know, that's a that's a pretty big warning sign, you know, that you mentioned the Great Commission, like that's what we are here for, that's what we exist for. And so when churches, for whatever reason, whether it's lack of know-how or just making excuses of obedience, when we stop prioritizing those evangelism and discipleship, that's that's a clear, a clear red flag. Um so so we know we need help, we know we need to change something. Uh a lot of time from from the pastor's perspective, it may be that okay, we're we're in this church, we understand things need to change. Um maybe it is some of the church members that are they come to that realization, but they come to it after the fact. Uh, what are some ways that we can begin to bring them on board to say, hey, this isn't just um the pastor's job, but but how can we as a church begin to identify some areas and and move move towards health in that, if that makes sense?

Anthony Svadja 10:30

Yeah, I I think there needs to be a little bit of a paradigm shift in the way that we view our people and view the role of a pastor of a church. Um, so like we know that we're called to like preach and and lead people and shepherd people and stuff like that. Um, is that kind of process through maybe that pastor who's gone, okay, we're not really doing outreach, we got to do outreach. Um, they're thinking of maybe the fruit of an issue and not the root of an issue. Um, because whenever you're called a pastor of people, you're not just called to go out to those people outside the walls of your church. You also got to work with the people inside the walls of your church. And so the root issue is maybe not going out. Maybe the root issue is your church doesn't have an evangelistic culture. And so you got to figure out how do I shift that culture. You know, um, I think that's a problem that a lot of pastors kind of run into. And here's what I here's what I mean. Let me give you an illustration or maybe a hypothetical example. Like a pastor will go to like an outreach conference. Maybe they go to some kind of evangelism conference or something like that, and they hear, you know, the greatest new tool in evangelism. It's, you know, this next level tool. We're gonna teach people how to share the gospel. It's gonna give you a plan on how to reach your community and all that stuff. They get out there and they get so fired up about this that they bring this evangelism tool back to their church. And they're go, hey, church, we're gonna do this. We have been horrible at going out and sharing our gospel with our neighbors, but now we have this new tool and it's gonna fix everything. Well, they cast that vision to their people, but yet their people don't have an evangelistic culture. And so what they do is their people go, Yeah, we're not doing that. Because they haven't been discipled. Right. They haven't been worked out. The other way I see this play out a lot of times is maybe that scenario will go like kind of what you were saying a minute ago. They'll say the congregation will hear the pastor communicate this new tool of evangelism, and uh they'll be like, man, that's a really good idea. You go do it. And the pastor, maybe he's a little bit hard-headed, and I know I've been there in this time, where maybe the pastor goes out and he starts doing it, and maybe he reaches a few people, he brings them back to the church, and because the church doesn't have that evangelistic culture, then they never make it a hospitable environment for those new people to come. They never connect with those people. And so even though the pastor may have reached them through this great new evangelistic tool, when it comes to integrating those new people into the life of the church, it doesn't happen. Um and again, all that goes back to when you're thinking about this, you're not just reaching new people, you're also shifting the culture of the existing church in which you're in. And you got to kind of think through that paradigm whenever you're revitalizing a church. Uh revitalization and renewal of a church is very much a discipleship process in the sense that you're not just you're not just adding another program or another thing that the church does, or you know, you're not just improving the numbers of the church. What you're doing there is you're shifting the culture of the church. You're teaching those people to become more dedicated disciples and become more obedient to following Jesus. And when they do that, God will then add to those numbers. God will then make that church more healthy. Yeah.

Brad Borggren 14:04

Yeah. Growth in health comes before growth in numbers. Absolutely.

Anthony Svadja 14:08

And that's exactly right. Yeah.

Brad Borggren 14:10

Yes. And even that, uh as I'm kind of thinking through my experience of regenesis, uh, I'm sure that was in there. I probably just missed it uh some, but but maybe that's come out of the the iterations of regenesis. But if you could just kind of tell us uh just explain regenesis to us to as if you're talking to people that have no idea what in the world is this, uh, and then we're gonna talk about how we can kind of uh especially for those churches who are in Texas or or yeah or nearby, can can can kind of get get on on the board with that.

Anthony Svadja 14:52

Yeah, so um when I came to the to the SBTC, um I was tasked with a a pretty large task, and that was to create a process for churches to walk through in order to experience renewal and church health. Now, the hard thing about that is that there's not really one of those out there. So uh it was kind of one of those things, man. It was like, well, hey, create this thing, and by the way, you have no guidelines to go off of. No person. So it's kind of like, all right, here we go, man. Uh we're very much just kind of working this thing out. Now, um, truth be told, I have a PhD in evangelism and church revitalization. Um, and so like I'm it's not like I'm unfamiliar to this topic. Like, I have experience in revitalizing two churches, and I have some studies in that area. And so there are a lot of tools that are out there and a lot of resources and stuff like that, but there was never really a process for it. Now, Brad, you mentioned your church went through it, man. You guys went through it in the very first iteration of Regenesis. It was so new, in fact, that we didn't even put it in a book, we put it in a three-ring binder. Like, dude, uh, just full transparency, man. We were building the plane as we were flying it. And you, Brad, I love you, dude, but you're a you're a lab rat. That's what y'all were.

Brad Borggren 16:20

But I've still got that three-ring binder.

Anthony Svadja 16:23

Yeah, money, yeah. There was some good stuff in there. There was some really confusing stuff in there, uh, full transparency, but like there was some good stuff in there.

Brad Borggren 16:31

I'll agree with that.

Anthony Svadja 16:33

Yeah, yeah. So uh, so that being said, like Reginesis has shifted uh every year that we've kind of gone through it because you know, again, we're building this process out. We want it to be the best thing possible. And so, truth be told, then we'll go through stuff and we'll be like, okay, that was really good. Let's keep that. And then we'll go through stuff and be like, yeah, that didn't really work. Everybody was totally confused. So we're gonna get rid of that and we're gonna find something else and write some stuff that's gonna be a little bit different. So that being said, um, that's what registers is. It's like this constant evolving of a process that will help churches find clarity in what they need to do. Now, that process covers four major like emphasis, if you will. Um, the first emphasis is gonna be removing any barriers to church health. And sometimes in churches, man, you got barriers. Um, sometimes you got a toxic group of leadership. And if you don't deal with them, uh, then it's gonna be hard for your church to get healthy. Um, sometimes your barrier is gonna be a financial barrier, maybe it's a building barrier, something like that. Uh, there's a lot of different barriers that a church can have. It may even be a spiritual barrier, barrier that they're walking through and they need to deal with. So that'll be the first one. We're gonna deal with barriers. Uh, the next step that we walk through is assessing uh and understanding our spiritual environment. Um, the environment of a church is gonna be very, very important. And I don't mean like, uh, what does your church sanctuary look like? That's not what I'm talking about. It's a spiritual environment. So, like, is this the church that's primed and ready? Are they faithful and are they ready to step out in faith even when it doesn't necessarily make sense? Or is this the church that's sitting there going, we're very resistant to anything new? Uh, what is the spiritual environment of this church? And then the third one is going to be what is the discipleship pathway look like in our church? Uh, what is a disciple? How do we make disciples? Uh, how are we going to restructure our organization to be effective at what God has called us to do? And then the fourth one is going to be implementation, um, understanding what it looks like to see that health and that growth and that spiritual expansion for the kingdom. Um, you know, one of the things that I know uh that is super helpful in this stage is that this is all about like how do we actually do stuff? How do we get it done? Um, how do we lead our people well without, you know, dividing the church whenever we try and change something. Um, so it's all about that. So that's the general process. You're gonna have addressing barriers, assessing and understanding the spiritual environment, the discipleship pathway, and how do we make disciples well? And then it's all about implementation for uh kingdom growth and expansion. So those are gonna be the four kind of things that we walk through in that process. Um, just so you know, we've had roughly uh about 560 churches go through the process uh to completion. And then we have right now we have roughly about uh 90 churches going through it uh in English in the state of Texas. Uh this year we launched a Spanish uh group as well, and so we have about 25 churches going through it. That's the first round of Spanish guys that are kind of going through it. We have groups also in Nevada. Um, so we have some up in like the Tahoe area and then the Las Vegas area, and then we are launching in Puerto Rico and Romania, and then that'll spread through Europe and uh in some areas from there. So uh it's expanding. We're seeing God do some amazing things to this, it's super, super cool. And so uh hopefully that answered your question, man. I felt like I was talking a lot there. So my bad, but no, absolutely. No, that's what we like. It it is a lot, man. We got a lot going on. So it's it's pretty cool to see God do what he's doing. Yeah, amen.

Brad Borggren 20:47

And I hope what you hear from that is you know, no matter where your church may be, uh I'm not gonna put the SBTC on the spot, but they are very welcoming and and if they can help, they will they will help. Uh and so yeah, and so speaking of that, say there is a church in Texas somewhere already affiliated with the SBTC. Uh what would be the first step to go to to say, hey, this this really sounds like something I need to check out. Um how do how do they get involved? How do we get involved?

Anthony Svadja 21:22

Yeah, so the easiest way is going to be through the website. So it's just S uh B, like Southern Baptist, and then Texas.com and then forward slash Regenesis, and that'll take you directly to our landing page. Uh so that'll be the easiest way to get all the information you need from there. Um, if I was a pastor and I'm kind of going, okay, my my church needs some help, and Regenesis may be a thing for us, and we're trying to figure this out. The first step that I would do is I would look at our list of one day events. These are super easy to go to, they usually are on Tuesday or Thursday. And they go from nine to noon. They're absolutely free. And what this will do is this will give you kind of a taste, like an appetizer, if you will, of the full process. And so you'll go there, and we're not going to dive super deep in those type of uh gatherings. What we're going to do is we're just going to kind of step into the pool. We're going to be on the kiddie pool, if you will. And so uh it's really, really good. You'll get some stuff there that will uh give you some energy and some enthusiasm for the process. And then it'll also allow you to kind of go, okay, does this work for our church? Is this something that I would want to do? Uh, is this really where God is leading us? The other thing, too, is is let me just tell you guys, use this as a recruitment tool for your leadership as well. You know, sometimes we get super excited about like church health and renewal, and we go back to our leadership and they're like, why do we need any of that, man? We're the most healthy church in the state of Texas. You know, we are the most friendly people. Everybody should come to our church. And it's like they're they're oblivious to what's really happening. If you bring them to those one days, it becomes less of a barrier for you to convince your people that they need revitalization and renewal. Uh, you just bring them on with you. It's absolutely free. And then, you know, you at the end of that event, you go, man, that was really interesting. What do you think about that? And then all of a sudden they're going, Well, maybe our church needs some help. And uh, we'll get them even fired up about it. And that makes it really, really fun. And so that would be the easiest way to kind of get involved. Get on the website and then uh get plugged into one of those one days. And those are happening all over the state, man. There's like 25 of them uh planned right now, and so they're going on right during the spring.

Brad Borggren 23:48

Yeah. Yeah, thank you. And and and it's that that concept of, you know, we as pastors, we can say the same things over and over again, but as soon as somebody different says it, it's like, oh, it resonates. And so uh let Anthony, let his team be that added voice to help get some of your uh either leadership involved, deacons involved, or just just plain old lay members that have a heart for the church. You know, we uh that really helped us as I didn't have to be the main voice coming back to our church to say, hey, this is this is what we're doing, this is why we're doing it, that that they saw that and and could buy in. Um also we went through that first iteration, like you said, we're we're planning on doing it again. Right, we we've got an a one-day event scheduled on our calendar after Easter uh that we're gonna hopefully partner up with another local church and and go through. And just because the process has changed and and the group of people that I'm hoping to bring uh are gonna be different and new. And so it's um yeah, every three, four, five years, you know, you need that fresh vision. And so I'm I'm hoping to continue to to learn and grow and uh and just continue to push our church forward in health. But but Anthony, thank you again for for joining us. Thank you for taking your time. I know you've got all kinds of stuff going. Any other final words you want to say about revitalization or regenesis?

Anthony Svadja 25:13

Well, the thing I would like to tell all the pastors that are listening and even the church leadership is man, uh you're not alone. I want you to know that. Uh the Lord knows exactly where you're at. And one of the craziest things that I see pastors do in the middle of a hard situation is they go, Why am I here? And uh the reason why you're there is because God brought you there. And you're the guy. So understand you're not alone. God is with you. He has a purpose in bringing you where you're at. Uh, he has a reason for using you in your church. Uh, he doesn't do anything by habit stance. He he is in control and he knows what he's doing. And at the same time, like, you're not alone. We're here for you. I know the guys on this podcast, they got a heart for healthy churches and pastors. That's why they're doing this. And uh honestly, I do too, man. So, like, if there's anything that I can do for you, uh, reach out. Let us know. The whole reason why I'm here is to help you guys. And so um, I want to see you thrive. I want to see God do big things in your church, and so know that you're not alone. We're here to help.

Brad Borggren 26:21

Amen. Amen. Well, thank you again for joining us. And yeah, if you're anywhere from Nevada to Romania, regenesis, you know, I'm gonna say it's for you. And so hopefully we've got Zach on the bandwagon and yeah, absolutely. Um, need a uh revitalization of student ministry.

Zach Leonard 26:39

Yeah, that was great. Um, yeah, my takeaways from that is one, this process is good, and two, I need to let Brad talk more. Um, that was fantastic. That was a really good conversation. Anthony, thank you so much for coming on this episode. We really appreciate it. Um we uh we look forward to seeing not just what you're doing, but what the SBTC is doing. Um, I know it's a good, it's a it's a good organization, and um in my time in the Southern Baptist Church in Texas, I've seen you guys really have a heart for wanting churches to succeed, and we appreciate that.

Anthony Svadja 27:13

Yeah, man. Yeah, absolutely. That is our heart, man. We want to see Jesus do some big things to those churches and uh let's do it all for him, man. Thank you guys again for having me on here. This has been a blessing to be able to chat with you guys and catch up a little bit and and all that.

Zach Leonard 27:29

That's great. Well, as we close out the episode, we always thank you for your leadership or for your listenership. Um, leadership too. I mean, for those of you pastors that are in the church, um, yeah, that wasn't a Froidian slip. That was absolutely we appreciate your leadership. But more so, we just appreciate your willingness to to tune in each week. Um, we we don't take that for granted. You know, when we started this kind of crazy idea of just turning on the microphones and having the conversations, we didn't really know where it was going to go. And we thank you that you guys tune in each week and we appreciate it. We we want to partner with you. If there is any way that we can pray for you, if there's any way that we can um join you in any way to to help out if you have any questions. Um, we may not know the answers, but we can point you in the direction of someone who might. So um please feel free to drop a comment on our episode, shoot us an email at the smalltownpod at gmail.com, and just let's get involved and and get a community going so that we can have unity as pastors and and as church members in this, I would almost say often neglected group of churches. In a small town, it's often we are just kind of left to our own devices, and so that's kind of why we wanted to have these conversations so that you guys can know that there's a bunch of us out there and we we want to be involved. So thank you again for your listenership, and as always, we hope you have a great week and we'll see you back here next week. Thank you for joining us for this episode of the Small Town Church Podcast. We pray that you have found this episode useful. If this episode has blessed you in some way, please share with someone else who might benefit from it. If you would like to partner with us, leave us a review so the algorithm can share this podcast with other people. If you have a question, please email it to thesmalltownpod at gmail.com, and we will do our best to answer it either in a later episode or in the QA episode at the end of the season. Also, if we can partner with you in prayer in any way, email us so that we may have the honor of joining you in that prayer. Until next time, we pray you delight in God's mercies, which are new every morning, and remember to stay faithful to your small town church.