Season 2 Episode 16: Artificial Intelligence

Welcome to the Small Town Church Podcast, the weekly podcast where we discuss all aspects of being in a small-town church. Whether you are a member, on staff, or have just begun attending a church in a small town, this is the podcast for you. 

On this week's episode, we discuss how pastor's should interact it AI.

We pray that you have found this episode useful. If this episode has blessed you in some way, please share with someone else who might benefit from it. If you would like to partner with us, leave us a review so the algorithm will share this podcast with other people. If you have a question, please email it to thesmalltownpod@gmail.com and we will do our best to answer it either in a later episode or in the Q&A episode at the end of the season. Also, if we can partner with you in prayer in any way, email us so that we may have the honor of joining you in prayer. Until next time, we pray you delight in God’s mercies, which are new every morning and remember to stay faithful to your small town church!

Transcript

Zach Leonard 0:02

Man thinks he can become God, but infinitely greater than that is the fact that God thought of becoming human. John C. Lennox, twenty eighty-four: Artificial Intelligence and the Future of Humanity. Welcome to the Small Town Church Podcast, the weekly podcast where we discuss all aspects of being in a small town church. Whether you are a member, on staff, or have just begun attending a church in a small town, this is the podcast for you. Welcome back to the Small Town Church Podcast. We are on episode 16, and this is the other episode that I've been looking forward to, which we'll talk about here in just a second. If you enjoyed last week's episode, feel free to share it with somebody talking about culture and social pressures, politics, that kind of stuff. It was a fun episode. We enjoyed recording it, and um we hope that you got something from it, and we hope that you get something from today's episode. My name is Zach Leonard. I am one half of the co-hosting team. I am joined as always by my partner in crime, not my assistant. I co-host my brother in arms, if you will, uh Brad Borgern. Brad, how are we doing? Doing well. It's good to be here. And we are talking about AI today. Um, it was coming. It's 2026. You knew it was gonna come up at some point during this semester. This uh I nearly said semester, um, during this season, but we finally re-arrived. We finally started talking about the dreaded AI, the big brother, the dun dun dun. Anywho, um, so let's kind of just define the terms of what we're gonna be talking about today. Um I think it's important that we have a stance on this because it is inculcating large swathes of our lives, and it is being used for everything. Some of it hilarious, some of it a little bit scary, if we're being honest. Um and I think it's important for us to have a pat as pastors to have a stance on things. Um, as we talked about last week, while we're not necessarily going to preach out against something every single week, we do need to have a stance on it, and and that's important. So, Brad, why don't you just kind of throw it out there, talk about whatever you want to. Just tell us how much you love or hate AI.

SPEAKER_00 2:23

Yeah, it I think the the weird thing to me is just how quickly it snuck in. Yep. Like all of a sudden it went from Google to now it on my homepage, it's co-pilot. Right. And it's um even if I type in like a web, I'm trying to type in a web address and it's co-pilot's trying to answer my. I'm like, I don't know. And then it I did it today. I was looking up lyrics for a song, and you just type in the title of the song and hit lyrics, and it pops it up. And Copilot's like, it's copyrighted. I can't give you the lyrics. I'm like, don't be worthless. Right. Go back to Google, you know. Right. But it it's just it's happened just like that, and it's only getting faster and more powerful. And and I'll just go ahead and say it, you know, as pastors, do not you let AI write your sermons, right?

Zach Leonard 3:16

Let's just get that one out of the way at the beginning of the episode. There you go.

SPEAKER_00 3:19

But for me, even like I I'll be honest, I went through a season where I would I would do all of my sermon prep and I would check, um, you know, and I and we've talked about sermon prep, and I'll go through um all the preliminary stuff, all the observation stuff, making applications. I've got my outline, exegetical outline. I'll even have probably some of my preaching points, at least I what I think are going to be my preaching points before I even open a commentary. Right. And then I'll use commentaries and like, okay, am I on the right track and and get thoughts and quotes and things from that? And then I would like like, okay, what's one of the things that's changed in my preaching? I I've started with a question, like, what's the fallen condition focus? Like, why do we need the gospel uh for this? And then try to summarize the sermon in in one sentence, like what is true and what to do. And so I realized AI can do that a lot better than I can. And so I'm like, okay, AI, what is what is the fallen condition focus of X passage, according to um, you know, in the spirit. I even the first time I did it, I I told it what the fallen condition focus was, and and then it knew, like it knew what book I got that from from Brian Chapel. And I'm like, wow, this is dangerously good, right? And it's like a commentary, once you see something, you can't unsee it. And so then it's stuck there. And and over time, and and of course, this has been within the last six months, I've gotten convicted, like even that, like while I was only using it to check to see one more boundary of okay, am I on the right path of not just the commentaries I have, but the wealth of the internet. Um, I'm thinking, man, it really it's that temptation that it's just so quick and easy. And of course, I'm not asking it to write a sermon, I'm just asking it to make sure that I'm on the right track. But I lose that process and I become more dependent on that than I do on the Holy Spirit. And that's the danger for me. That it's um I would rather do the work and and be wrong than rely on something other than the Lord, right? Because if if if I'm going down a path in sermon prep and it's just really bad, like I feel like at some point the Holy Spirit's going to convict me, or whether that's in my own study or as I preach the sermon, and people are like, This is bad, this isn't good, this isn't right, you know, and so um trust the Lord, not not a machine. Yeah, that's great.

Zach Leonard 6:09

I um thank you for continuing to talk as I died there. Um I'm I don't know how much of that was heard on his microphone. I muted mine. As I've said in past episodes, we batch record these and we've gotten a chunk of them done today. And I don't know what's in bloom, but my goodness, um, I'm good for a while, and then all of a sudden I get a tickle on my throat and I'm not. Um I I think there can be a slippery slope with that sort of thing. And to your point, there's a let me preface this by saying if you are a Christian rap fan, I I do not condone everything that comes out of Le Cray's mouth. Um he's he he's not he goes he kind of goes off the rails sometimes. But he has a song in an older album called Indwelling Sin. And it's an argument between himself and like he and himself. Like he's it's he does both voices, and it's it's basically like the temptation that's inside of him telling him to go and do the wrong thing. It's a pretty good song. Like I it's I don't know, 15 years old probably. And there's a line in that where he is talking back at the temptation, and it he says a line that says, B. It's it's and the point of that is when you open the door for something that seems innocuous, you allow that foothold to make it worse. I am not implying that if you start looking at at using AI to help you in some way that tomorrow or even next year or next decade or whatever, you're going to be using AI to write all your sermons. That's not what I'm implying. What I'm saying is we need to be wise in how we use everything. Just like to your point about commentaries. I use commentaries too in my sermon prep, but it is not at the beginning. I want to do the work of exegeting the text first. I want to spend prayerful time in it, reading through it, thinking through it, studying the text before I ever bring in someone else's ideas. The same thing is true with AI. Um, there are some areas that use AI where it can be helpful, uh, but you sometimes to kind of, and I'm kind of stealing what you said before we hit record, um, you you kind of take away the work that it takes to get to what you're doing if you just allow AI to go find it for you. Uh, we're big Logos Bible software people. Uh we both use it. Um I use it all the time uh for both my daily Bible study, my seminary work. I use it a lot. And they have it started to incorporate an insular AI. So the idea is the parameters of the AI inside of Logos can only search the books that are inside of Logos. They don't give it free reign to go out into the open internet where all kinds of crazy abounds. And it's funny because I I have used it to search a question that I'm, you know, much like I said in previous episodes, there are times where I know something's in Exodus, but I don't remember where in Exodus, right? I've used it for search things like that. Um, but it's funny at the end of each month, it's like you've used 1% of your AI credits. I mean, yeah, that's kind of by design logos, right? There is just something about putting in the work, you know. If, and this is maybe a bad example because it's going to sound gluttonous, but if I want to go and find out who in town makes the best cheeseburger, I don't want to go ask Grok to do that for me. You know, I want um I want to go try the different cheeseburgers in town and figure out which one I like the best, and then go from there. Um there there's a there's fruitfulness to the work. And when you spend time in the text, you exegute the text, you faithfully read it through, and then you present the sermon, you know, you're trusting in the Holy Spirit to give you insight, you're trusting in in God to do the work. You can be you can rest assured that you're you're doing what God has called you to do as a pastor. So as we kind of take a turn on this, um, let me ask you kind of this question. Uh, for you, what are some things that you might see yourself using AI for, possibly? And also what are some pitfalls that you think you may that that kind of make you go, maybe not? And you kind of spoke to that a little bit, but what are some things we need to look out at as pastors?

SPEAKER_00 10:46

Yeah, and I think, like you said, using it within Bible software. I mean, really, the the idea of having Bible software where you can right-click on a word and it tells you every time it's used in the New or Old Testament. Right. It tells definite, I mean, it like all of that is technology that that Paul obviously never writes. He couldn't foresee, right? They didn't have that when they were reading uh Ephesians in Ephesus, right? Uh, and so even Bible software on any level, we're dependent on someone else doing the work of going and finding what these words mean in languages that we don't speak. Right. Uh, and so using AI in that way is to ask a question like, you know, help me understand the background of um we're talking about the Babylonian captivity, you know, what what was life like in the Babylonian captivity? And just to kind of see what it to see what it brings up. Sure. You know, I think there's there's elements like that, or you know, to find quotes, uh, you know, instead of just searching books that I know or books that I've read, uh I can ask it for, you know, help me find all the quotes from church fathers that relate to this topic. Right. And now I've got, you know, you sound you sound really smart. Or you sound like you've read a whole bunch of stuff when when you really haven't. And it's and it's on that, it's not really any different than going to Google because Google could essentially pretty much do the same thing. Absolutely. It may not just be that concise. Uh you know, for me, the pitfalls kind of come in between okay, is am I asking it to do creative work or am I asking it to do more research-based work? That's a good point. Am I using it to understand something better, or am I asking it to make something, to write something, to produce something? Even if it's like, you know, it pops up. I'm like, would you like Copilot to write an email for you? I'm like, no, I I can do that myself. Right. Uh, and so just for me, and and different people, you may have different different qualms about what uh you know where the line is for you. I don't think we should be dogmatic on this. Right. Uh, but for me, I I feel like okay, it I shouldn't want it to create because I'm losing uh and it really goes by I read something from uh an article recently about and it kind of ties in with the discipline of of solitude and silence and taking rest. Like what what where do we get our value from? Right. If all we if the only source of value that we feel like well if we only think we're valuable because of the things that we can do and produce, well, there's a computer somewhere that can do way more and produce way more better and faster than he ever can. Uh God didn't love us because of what we make, right? He didn't send his son to die for us because of what we could do. He sent his son to die for us based on what we couldn't do. Like he loved us in our depravity. Uh, and so if we if we have that misguided worldview of our own value system, um we start to believe the the the lie that we're only as good as the things we can produce, and so we've got to have the the fastest, best, whatever. Uh, when when God is more interested, I believe, in the process that we are in to become more like Christ. And that's a slow uh process. And so uh getting back to that, you know, yeah. Am I do I am I wanting it to make things uh for me so that I can sound better, look better, be more efficient, or am I using it as a tool, um a research tool, essentially a a high powered uh search engine. You know, for me that's the line. Um I'll use it for for graphics and things like that because I'm I don't have a whole lot of I'm not a graphic designer. Right. But if I can I'll use Canva for all of our stuff, and there's an element of I mean AI is and everything now. Uh and so things like that, but again, not I'm not gonna say, hey, will you write a book for me? Right.

Zach Leonard 15:23

You know, it's it's funny in in that regard. I um I actually use it and and I actually have a little bit of a graphic background. Um it's all self-taught, so don't anybody that's listening, I am not great, you know. Um, but I do have a little bit of a background. But even every now and then there's something that comes across my my mind that you know that I need to do that I just go, oh yeah, that's beyond my limitations graphically, you know. Um I I can make it look good or I can make it look, I can't make it look good, right? Um and so I've been I've known I've I use Photoshop, that's my thing, and that's where I find myself using it. Um it's it's not in the research realm, it's not in the sermon prep, it's not in any of that, it's not in the creation realm in that regard. It's in it it's in in pictorially creating something that I need something for, like you said, like a graphic for church or something like that. Um we need to remember the human aspect of it. Um I'm reminded of uh Dr uh John Piper's uh sermon that he gave at the Gospel Coalition that you and I attended back in 20, what was that, 25? Uh yes. Yeah, it was 2025. Yeah. Um and he actually asked GPT to write a qu a prayer. Um and and it was it was profound. I mean, he he you know, what he what Piper said, not what J Chat GPT said. Um but he said um he typed in please compose a 30-second prayer to God in the spirit and thought theology of D.A. Carson to the glory of God's grace. And he spit out this prayer, uh, you know, and it's just I mean, it's all this stuff, right? And um and he he basically says that that prayer is not praise. You know, I mean it's it's just words, it doesn't mean anything, right? As he put these, he said, these people, these machines honor me with their lips and their bites and their heart is far from me. You know? Um he you know, he said, computers do words better than you, better than me. Um computers do words, they don't feel anything. Therefore, the universe is created to have people who feel. The universe exists to have people in God's image who feel the worth of grace, to feel, who feel the glory of grace, who feel the beauty of grace, who feel the wonder of grace. And then everything in their life takes a totally different meaning of action and praise. And so I think that's we need to remember that ultimately when we are using AI, we are using a machine, and it cannot produce the same praise. Even though our praise, our words, our research, it may, it's broken. It it is, and it AI may be able to spit something out that sounds much more eloquent than we do, and I will contend that. But at the end of the day, it's just a machine and it's just words. What comes from what God has placed on our heart in sermon prep, what God has placed upon our as we exegute the text, that means infinitely more than what may sound more eloquent that AI came up with. And so I think it's important for us to remember as pastors is that we're not called to sound good. We're called to be faithful. And and we're not called to be perfect, we're called to be faithful. And so part of the man, I sorry, y'all. Um part of what that is looks like for us is to say, okay, God, you have placed us in this position or as pastors. This is the flock that you have given us. I'm just called to be faithful. So it is my job to open your text daily, to open your word daily, and exegete it correctly and faithfully for the congregation. And trust that God is going to use that and trust that God is going to lead that effectively to the glory of Him ultimately. Um, Brad, as we kind of wind down this episode, do you have any thoughts going forward?

SPEAKER_00 19:30

No, just I mean, even you know, just hearing you cough is a um a perfect illustration, right? That robots could do what we could do and they would sound so much better and be smarter, and they wouldn't have coughing interruptions uh and squeaky chairs and things like that. But but to what end, right? They just had a a humanoid robot run a marathon faster and he broke the world record. I'm like, well, no, no, he didn't. Right. You put oil and gas in a car and it's gonna go faster than anybody can run. Like, that's not I mean, it's I guess it's an achievement in what we can build, right? But it's not you can't compare that with people, yeah, right? And so uh, and yeah, just remembering reminding ourselves as pastors, uh, or reminding myself, my value comes from my creator, amen. Not from what I can create, either in my own creativeness or with the use of a machine. Uh my value comes from Christ, who died for me uh to do what I could not. And so reminding ourselves that, and then also, like you said, you know, reminding ourselves that though we are uh we're on the path to perfection, we haven't reached it yet. Like we're in the process of sanctification and and the spirit has us exactly where um I mean, not that not that he ever wants us to to struggle with sin, uh, but we're not gonna get ahead or we're not gonna get behind, for he who created a good work in us is going to complete it, right? And so uh just trusting that we are where we are, um the Holy Spirit is he's gonna give you the words, he's gonna give me the words for his church uh better than any other person or especially a machine that I could.

Zach Leonard 21:29

That's so good. So the last thing that I will say, and then we'll close, is I do want to create a not not create, that's not the right word. Um I do want to offer up uh an assurance, if you will. I don't know why, but for some reason when I think of AI, I'm reminded of the Tower of Babel. Because what we see in mankind right now is a push to be God or to reach. God. And so just like God confused the people at Babel, I believe is we as Christians should look at this and go, okay, like see it for the tool that it is. Don't exalt it too high, but also at the same time trust that God is still going to be sovereign and control this, right? And if it looks like AI has taken over the world, right? God is still sovereign. God is still trusting, and he still has a plan as in control of all this. And I just I don't know why I keep thinking of the Tower of Babel, but that's what I do. I think of the confusing of the languages as mankind came together to try and put themselves above God. God said, and now I'm good. Watch this, right? And so we have to trust that that God is in control in all things. Well, this is has kind of been a shorter episode, but there's really only things, there's only so much you can say about AI before you really kind of just, you know, have you covered it all. So I will close out by saying we thank you. Um we thank you for your listenership. Hopefully, by the next time that we record, I will be over all of the allergies. Um we'll see. But um we just we couldn't. I don't know, maybe we would do this without you, but no one would listen to. I mean, I we just we kind of enjoy these conversations, but we we appreciate the fact that you do listen. And um we appreciate the fact that you are willing to tune in each week. Um we do have a Facebook page uh if you are interested in kind of joining the group and and getting involved, um, or we're just at the Small Town Church Podcast on Facebook. Um we may at some point branch out to other mediums, and we may not, we may just stay on Facebook. I don't really know. Um with seminary right now, working on my MDiv, that's about all the bandwidth that my uh my brain can hold in keeping up with is uh is one or two posts a week on that, and so I don't know that we're necessarily going to branch out too much from there, but um again, be with us in prayer as we start thinking ahead to season three, if there's gonna be a season three. We just we we want to seek God's face and and honor him in all that we do. So uh be praying about that. Um if you have any questions, if you have any thoughts, any questions that you want us to answer in a later in towards the end of the season or in a later episode, email us at the smalltownpod at gmail.com and we'll be sure to answer those. Or you can just leave a comment on any of the episodes and we'll see it uh through our hosting site and we'll we'll reach out to you that way. Until next week, we uh we thank you for your listenership and we hope that you have a great week and we uh we will see you back next week on the Small Town Church Podcast. Thank you for joining us for this episode of the Small Town Church Podcast. We pray that you have found this episode useful. If this episode has blessed you in some way, please share with someone else who might benefit from it. If you would like to partner with us, leave us a review so the algorithm can share this podcast with other people. If you have a question, please email it to thesmalltownpod at gmail.com and we will do our best to answer it either in a later episode or in the QA episode at the end of the season. Also, if we can partner with you in prayer in any way, email us so that we may have the honor of joining you in that prayer. Until next time, we pray you delight in God's mercies, which are new every morning, and remember to stay faithful to your small town church.