The Dark Territory

Investigating The Dark Past Of The Changeling

• Shawn & Brandon • Season 1 • Episode 3

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In this chilling episode of The Dark Territory Podcast, we delve deep into one of the most haunting supernatural films of all time — Peter Medak’s The Changeling (1980). Join us as we explore the ghostly atmosphere, tragic backstory, and real-life inspirations behind this classic haunted house horror film.

We break down George C. Scott’s unforgettable performance, the film’s masterful use of sound and silence, and how The Changeling set the standard for psychological horror and paranormal storytelling. From grief and isolation to the mystery buried beneath the mansion, this episode uncovers the hidden layers that make The Changeling one of the most underrated ghost stories ever filmed.

If you love haunting cinema, gothic storytelling, and deep dives into cult horror classics, this is an episode you won’t want to miss.

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Brandon:

What does that tell me about it? Well, the place where we work storm. Is this fucking close enough to should I have it farther away or closer?

Shawn:

Have it as close as you can.

Brandon:

Okay.

Shawn:

Yeah, without like bumping into it.

Brandon:

Alright.

Shawn:

Welcome to the Dark Territory Podcast. I'm Sean.

Brandon:

I'm Brandon.

Shawn:

Each week we dive into the films, music, and books that feel our passion for everything dark, mysterious, and strange. This week we're gonna discuss the 1980s Haunted House Thriller, The Changeling. I am very, very excited about this film. Um, this is one that I have been wanting to review for a long time, and it is, in my opinion, one of the best, if not the best, haunted house movie ever made.

Brandon:

That's a bold statement, Kyle.

Shawn:

Uh you know, I'm sticking by it, man. Hey, anybody that sees it recognizes right away that this is a special movie. Uh, I mean, you got I agree. You got Dorsey Scott, yeah. You got uh his wife, apparently, and that was Treasure Vanderer. Yeah.

Brandon:

And one of the freakiest looking old houses that wasn't really a house.

Shawn:

Yeah. Yeah, they actually built the outside of this thing from scratch, and it looks amazing. Part of my interest in this film is what I learned about it after watching it for the first time. Joel B. Michaels, he had a three-hour audio cassette that was sent to him by uh pianist Russell Hunter, and it was basically him recounting his haunted house experience. And he was so riveted, uh Joel was, that he listened to the whole three-hour audio tape uh in one sitting and decided then and there that he needed to make a movie about this.

Brandon:

That's how some of the best movies come about. You just hear a story and you're like, holy shit, that would make a good movie.

Shawn:

Yeah. This one has all the things that you would want. The mystery behind uh the child's death. There's some political intrigue, and then yeah, that fucking house, man. That house. I mean, right off the get-go, as soon as it's a character in and of itself.

Brandon:

It is the first time I saw it, I was like, damn, I want to go there. That's a freaky looking fucking house. And then you told me it's like that place wasn't real. It's like, no shit.

Shawn:

Yeah. It was a set. The original mansion was built over Prospect Hill Cemetery. And uh the families were told to relocate their bodies, but 2,000 graves remained.

Brandon:

So is that where Poltergeist got the idea for their shit from, too? Probably. Do the respectful thing and move the fucking bodies. That's all we're saying. Come on, man.

Shawn:

Let's start with uh the beginning of the film. John Russell and his wife and young daughter, and they're vacationing in what is supposed to be upstate New York, snowy upstate New York. Um look like white past me. Yeah.

Brandon:

I think I've driven on that road.

Shawn:

Yeah, so they're they're just uh, you know, a happy family whose car is broken down, some station wagon, and they're pushing this thing up up this snowy, slippery hill.

Brandon:

Yeah, which is the dumbest thing to do.

Shawn:

Stay with your car. Right? Don't push it in inclement weather like that. Especially considering I I could just imagine it taking all of them out, you know, just one slip and then boom, this whole thing just pushes them off the cliff.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Shawn:

Well, what what I thought was even more hilarious is that uh when they finally, you know, put it in park, he goes over to a payphone.

Brandon:

That's magically out in the middle of nowhere with no snow on it, no ice on the windows. Yeah, it could be Bill and Ted's phone. It could be the TARDIS, man. The whole thing is is laid out. It's like you you know something bad's coming.

Shawn:

Yeah, the whole the whole time he's he's going over uh to make the phone call to you know, let's get a tow truck to come out and help him. His wife and and daughter are over there playing in the snow, you know, having a good old time. And then meanwhile, you see this this ominous truck driving way too fast on the snow, just barreling towards these guys without a care in the world, apparently. He's just, you know, he's probably on his CB radio or I don't know, doing God knows what. You know, maybe he had a uh a bender the night before and he's just fucking you know he's still ripping a race. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Tammy Wynette, yeah, listening to some some Johnny Cass, maybe having a speedball on the way. David Allencoe. So it's obvious that they're we're gonna have a disaster. And sure enough, the the truck smashes into the the daughter and and mother, and George C. Scott is left there just banging on the on the window of this uh this payphone, and there's nothing he can do about it. It's too late, and that's what starts the movie.

Brandon:

You know, and you look at it and you're like, this guy has to watch his family get taken out.

Shawn:

I think it's a good way to start the movie because everything that happens afterwards, you know, his whole demeanor throughout throughout this film is is more understandable, you know, because I think any rational person living in a house where there's like strange occurrences happening, especially the ones that happen in this house, would be acting a lot more like uh nope, I'm getting the fuck out of here. And and for him, he's he's just he's a detective. He's he he wants to investigate, he wants to go further into this mystery.

Brandon:

And he's a lot more morose because of the fact of what he's going through. I think he in in in a messed up way, he can relate to the ghost that he's going, he he can relate to this apparition. Yes. It's it's essentially a story about our baggage and what we carry with us. Yep.

Shawn:

And that's what ghosts are.

Brandon:

Yeah, they're kind of our and there are shades, yep. And I think you know, uh a really good ghost story tells you what it's like to be a human, yeah, yeah.

Shawn:

I I appreciate this movie taking its time to get us to the actual hauntings, it's not rushing us through it.

Brandon:

That's another good ghost story. The that's the build-up, yeah, man.

Shawn:

Like it's not it's not sitting there trying to hit you over the head with it, it's just like you know, setting us up with the character development and kind of his story and his tragedy, and then like you know, the fact that he's a composer also is you know, I'm I'm a musician as well, so like that was a huge in for me, even as a kid. I remember uh you know, the real to real in it that he uses. Oh yeah, you know, I'm like, oh, I want one of those. And so as a kid, I had to have like a I had to find a way to get a real to reel so I could record like he did, you know, and and be a composer.

Brandon:

Yeah, like uh Jeff Whitehead, the guy that does Leviathan, he recorded a few of his first demos on Real to Reels. Real to Reels, yeah. Fucking that's analog as fuck right there. So at the beginning of the movie, he loses his wife and kids. Yeah, and then he he goes through the period of mourning and he needs to get back to work. So he takes an appointment in Seattle with uh the University of Washington in the in the music department, yeah, and he goes back and he needs to find a place to live. And his his friends that he's talking to at the beginning of the movie, uh his colleagues or whatever, they're like, Oh, well, we know some people in the historical society that can get the historical preservation society, yeah. And I had friends like that, yeah. That's some bougie shit. Right. And he's like, Oh, okay, that sounds great. You know how George C. Scott talks, yeah.

Shawn:

No, that, but yeah, close enough.

Brandon:

Yeah. And uh he he gets an interview with uh one of the ladies that works at the at the historical society, and it's his it's his real life wife, right? Trish Vanderveer. Yeah, she's she's hot, she's good looking, she's a MILF, bro.

Shawn:

Yeah, one thing I like about this movie though, they don't veer into that that fucking pitfall that a lot of movies do where you have a man and a woman, they always gotta somehow like make some sort of romance thing happen. They don't do that. And waste a bunch of time doing that. Yeah, they don't do that, any of that.

Brandon:

They don't even hook up.

Shawn:

No, man. They they barely even I don't think they hug.

Brandon:

No, you know, they got a mission and they're gonna solve it. So he gets a grand tour of the house, and it's uh it's a big place. Yes, it's way too big for one person to live in. Yeah, it's point it would be pointless to live. You couldn't even heat it.

Shawn:

Not only that, it's it's too big for an old man named Mr. Tuttle to to to take care of, and not not just that place, but apparently he's the one that takes care of all their historical properties.

Brandon:

I mean, the place looks like it has 60 rooms in it, it's huge.

Shawn:

Yes, but we wouldn't have an awesome haunted house movie if it didn't have you know that the house.

Brandon:

I mean, and and if you if you see movies like uh Legend of Hellhouse, that that movie has a a terrifying haunted house too. And uh to me, a haunted house is only as good as its house, yes, you know the haunted house movie, yeah. Yeah, I mean I know that sounds kind of whack, but it's true, yeah.

Shawn:

No, it's it's central, it it has to be the central character of the entire thing because House on Haunted Hill with Vincent Price, all of them, and I think this movie has it in spades. I guess the first real kind of haunting, haunted occurrence happens when he's alone in the broad daylight, yeah.

Brandon:

He gets called away and he's he's working on a song, and the I think it's the E key, the the E.

Shawn:

I th I think it's D, but I'll double check.

Brandon:

Well, yeah, I mean apples and oranges.

Shawn:

Well now we now I need to know. Oh, okay. Sean's ADD is kicking. Yes, it is.

Brandon:

Um, and it's uh and it's it's like it's dead, like it's like the wire snapped or something. So he gets called away, somebody's at the door, yeah, and the key just all of a sudden like boom and it rings out and it just keeps ringing. It's like woo.

Shawn:

Yeah, and and on top of it, it it rings out with like like that sound when you base when you hold all the keys down and it has that dissonant sound. So great. Uh yeah, and and leading up to that scene, I I really appreciate the way the door opens, and you're you're expecting somebody to to walk through it, you know, and then it's there's nobody there. Uh it's such a great, such a great little detail. Um, and there's so many of those in this movie where And that's how haunted houses work.

Brandon:

They start to ratchet up the the weirdness and the the incidences and then like Jesus, what is going on with this place? Yes, until it's just full poltergeist mode and shit's flying around and and acting crazy.

Shawn:

It's like what? After that, what happens? Does he go to the Oh, he he has his doesn't he have his first lecture, I guess?

Brandon:

Yeah, he goes to um and there's a lot of people there to to watch his stuff. Uh as it should be. Yeah. Because I guess he's a pretty famous composer. And he he does a little monologue where it's like, well, it's not raining because there, I mean, the auditorium is filled. The people are standing in the back. Yeah. And um, he's like, This is Washington, and it's not raining. There's no fire in the other building, so you people have nothing to do. Yeah.

Shawn:

It's great, great little uh deprecating sense of humor.

Brandon:

Yeah, I mean, it's that's not word for word what what he says, but it's that's the general gist. And yeah, he sits down and he talks about what they're gonna learn in the semester, and yeah, and um he busts out a a piece that he wrote, and then it Oh, and apparently George C.

Shawn:

Scott actually played that little little bit uh in real life. Like I guess he knew just enough to kind of lead us into the the transition into the next scene. So they they kept that part in. Was he a classically trained pianist? I don't know if he's classically trained, but I mean George C. Scott's a smart guy. I mean, uh Kubrick, I think, got him on board because he played chess with him. He made eyes wide shut. Look what happened. Oh, that movie's seemingly more relevant every day. Fucking eh. Release the files. Yep.

Brandon:

Yeah. We'll have to leave. Yeah, we'll leave that. We're gonna leave that one in. Give me the fucking files. Then after he has the the symposium with all of his students, it jumps cut to the uh the uh the donor party for the Republicans. Oh, yeah, that's right. And this is where we first see Carmichael, yes, who is a flesh, who is a very uh integral part of the story. Yes, and he looks like a crooked old fuck, too. Yeah, yeah. He likes the line lighting, yeah, he likes to give speeches at these things. I mean, and it seems like uh everybody that is there that knows him doesn't have a good thing to say about him at all.

Shawn:

No, no, they're all talking shit about him behind his back.

Brandon:

And you know what? He probably loves shit like that, so yeah.

Shawn:

And um Hey, but good on him though, he's supporting the arts, you know, because this fundraiser is all about you know supporting the symphony, and yeah, I I support that, so good for him. So then we have this little transition from night to day, and then we hear that noise, it's the iconic sound throughout this whole film of the boom, boom, boom, and the dude has woken up out of a sound sleep.

Brandon:

It's like a massive bass drum.

Shawn:

Yeah, man, it's it's a cool sound, actually. Even as a kid watching this, I was like, that's what the fuck is that, man? If I if I heard that sound in my house and how rhythmic it was and consistent, I definitely wouldn't be thinking there was something like, oh, it's probably the water heater. Oh, yeah, or it's probably, you know, something with something wrong with the house.

Brandon:

And it's funny because uh George C. Scott's character, uh John Russell, he he confronts Mr. Tuttle about it and they go looking in the basement, and Mr. Tuttle is very off-put about it. He's like, It's an old house, it's got habits, it makes noises, yeah, yeah, you know, and that it that would be upsetting. Yeah, it's like don't poo-poo me off. I heard what I heard, yeah, you know.

Shawn:

Although I'm glad it gave us an excuse to go see what it looks like in the basement of this thing, because like that furnace, I mean, it looks like Satan lives in that thing. That thing is fucking massive.

Brandon:

I would have given Freddie Krueger a wet dream, yeah. But the paranormal incidences start to ramp up a lot after that, and the the ghost is starting to really let its presence be known. Yeah, it gets to the point. And you know, John Russell is starting to question his sanity because he's he's still in mourning of his wife and daughter, so he thinks he's starting to crack up. Yep. So he goes to he goes back to the to the historical society and we meet Minnie. Now Minnie is she's a little old lady that works at the she works with Trish Vanderveer's character at the historical society. And Trish Vanderveer brings John Russell over, and they're talking, and she has to go answer the phone or something.

Shawn:

She kind of reminds me of your your stereotypical cat lady. Yeah, oh yeah.

Brandon:

She has a cat lady vibe. Yeah. And you know, Trish Vanderveer's character goes off to talk to whoever's on the phone, and Minnie gives John a very solemn look, a very, you know, sincere look, and she says, You're not supposed to be living there. And she also says that the house doesn't want people to live there. And I'm telling you, if a little old lady that looks like your grandmother or your great grandmother says the house that you rented doesn't want you there, listen.

Shawn:

Yeah. Especially from that woman, the just the sincerity in her voice. I'm like, god damn, all right.

Brandon:

I'm talking stone faced, like a like I've seen people that were like stone coal killers that looked more mellow than her. Yeah.

Shawn:

Like, all right, she knows some shit.

Brandon:

Yeah, listen to her, man.

Shawn:

I should actually uh take this uh into consideration. Move. Yeah. I like uh, I mean, this is kind of an aside, but I like like when uh in the very beginning when he's getting uh shown around the place, how they have all the furniture that's there, and she's like, Oh, we just have a couple pieces here. You you know, you can have your pick of what you like.

Brandon:

Some 18th century, you know, chairs and all sorts of shit. Yeah, I mean I'd be hawking that shit, just sell that shit.

Shawn:

Hell yeah. I mean the money, bitch.

Brandon:

Yeah. Go to antique roadshow.

Shawn:

Hell yeah. All right, so uh, so yeah, after he goes to the uh the preservation society, doesn't he have the uh the quartet over? Is that the next scene?

Brandon:

Yeah, that's when that's when all hell breaks loose. Yeah, man. It's rainy, it's all dark, and uh they're they're practicing.

Shawn:

I love that shot where you kind of you can already kind of hear them inside, but you have the rain coming down and thunder and lightning.

Brandon:

And um this is when this is a scene where the ghost lets his presence be known. After they leave, shit just goes off the rails.

Shawn:

Yeah, there's a great shot where he's saying goodbye to all of his you know little uh musician friends, and right before he shuts the door, you see that light come on behind him, and you're like, uh-oh, shit's about to get real. And then you hear water hat like coming from I think the kitchen. So he goes over, and again, any normal person, when you start to hear water coming on in different places in your house, I would get the fuck out of there, man. Yeah, I would not stick around. But he shuts it off, and as soon as he shuts off one faucet, he hears another one happening in another part of the house. And of course, it's happening further up the house, so now he's got to travel up the stairs. And I I think this is where we we see the ghost for the first time.

Brandon:

And it was an infirm child, you find out he was sickly.

Shawn:

I guess he wakes up the next morning crying. And this is one of those George C. Scott moments that I love because he's so vulnerable. You believe that he's he's going through this, you know, this grief. And uh the house is like, nope, I'm not gonna let you, man. I'm gonna I'm gonna be relentless and haunt the fuck out of you.

Brandon:

I'm the main character in this movie.

Shawn:

Yeah. So after after the faucet thing, the next day he walks out of the house, and then that I love how he's just minding his own business and this window just out of nowhere. Yeah. And he just kind of looks at the glass on the ground. He doesn't look up to see where it came from. He's just like, huh. Weird. And then he decides, oh, I guess the logical thing to do is to go back into that fucking house and see where that came from. And he's doing his little detective thing because he's he's going from room to room to kind of see where that window could possibly be, because it's not obvious because that room is hidden. So yeah, so yeah, you want to go through that scene where he finds the he finds the no, no, no, I mean talk about it. Oh forget about the phone. All right, yeah.

Brandon:

So we're gonna we're doing research as we're doing this.

Shawn:

Yeah, this is a work in progress. This is this is something new we're trying out. Let us know if you like it.

Brandon:

They'll be like, no, we fucking hate it. This is how we really are. We're a couple of buffoons.

Shawn:

That's why we started a podcast.

Brandon:

We're not seriously, we're not serious film students.

Shawn:

No, no, we're not academic at all. We don't watch Criterion Collection. No, but seriously, if if you could put me in the Criterion Closet, I would raid that whole fucking thing. Stealing all sorts of shit. All of it. I know, I know how they like they do it. They're like, oh, just put a few things in a back. No, man, I'm taking the whole thing, dude. I'm taking that whole closet with me. And if they they go like, sir, you can't do that. I'd be like, no, you said I could take any movie I want.

Brandon:

I want the fucking bootleg ones too, the old ones that aren't in in print anymore.

Shawn:

Yeah.

Brandon:

Yeah. We're talking about the changeling.

Shawn:

Oh, yeah, that's right. We are talking about the changeling. Yeah. So so they uh so he goes he goes up uh to where he thinks the the shatter glass is coming from, and he goes into the closet, and he moves a bunch of shit out of the way because he can feel like there's air, and so he he finds this door that's all boarded up. But once he gets all the the boards removed, he's hitting this this uh bolt with a hammer, and then he hears that sound again, the the banging sound that we heard earlier, and he decides to start hitting it in rhythm with that sound, and I think it's only three times after that that it comes on loose, and uh and then he he uh is trying to open the door, of course it's giving him resistance, and then he tries again, and it just opens up like it's inviting him. Like the ghost is saying, Come on in. Yeah, and uh that's when he uh discovers the little room where the this boy was living in. Kept, yeah, that's that's probably a better word.

Brandon:

He didn't live there, he was kept there, yeah. Because he was a he was a a shame to his father.

Shawn:

Yeah.

Brandon:

Oh, it's fucked up when you find out that the kid he was he probably had like polio or something, he was you know, deformed. Yep. And the the proof of it is there's there's panning shots where George C. Scott is going through this room, and you see this tiny little wheelchair, and it's not scary, it's just pitiful looking, you know, like the person that would inhabit a chair like that would be very small. I mean, it it's almost like a a child's toy is so small. Yeah, it's like this kid probably wouldn't, you know, couldn't hurt a flea if it tried.

Shawn:

Yeah, it's it's disturbing and it's sad. And when you see him kind of going over what what's in the room, just you know, he sees the music box. I think that was one of the last things he discovers, which is also interesting because the the piece that's playing on that music box turns out to be the thing that he's currently composing. And he's never heard it before, he's never heard it before. And he even thinks to himself when he's talking, you know, with uh Claire about what he's found, you know, he's yeah, he's uh am I a plagiarist? Right, it must have been a popular song that I've heard before or something like that.

Brandon:

She's like, This this song has never been written. Yeah, yeah. You're writing it.

Shawn:

Right. So it it kind of deepens the mystery and also adds a little bit of backstory to kind of what this you know who this kid was. Does he bring Claire back there?

Brandon:

Yeah, so she's going through it and she notices right right off the bat, she's like, the wheelchair is so small, yeah. It really puts the hook in you.

Shawn:

Yeah, definitely does. Even as a kid, I remember thinking, like, you know, just how lonely, you know, that that kid must have been. You know, shut it in a tiny little spot. And apparently in the real story that this is based off of, uh, the kid that was sort of shut away from the rest of the world, uh they left him a ball. That that ball that we see in the beginning of the story that's you know belongs to the daughter or whatever. In the real story, that's all the kid had to play with. They just like here, here's a ball, kind of like you're a dog, here's your toy, and uh be grateful. So I think that's when we we go to the scene where they're they're at the library and they're what do they call those things where you're we're scrolling through the the the little microfish. Thank you. Yeah, I love that shit. Reminds me of when I was a kid in elementary school looking up stuff. We didn't have the internet. No, we had microfish. We didn't have no internet, yep. So they're going through and basically figuring out the mystery and what happened to this kid, and uh that's when they decide to call in the seance, get the seance put together and uh see if they can communicate with the dead. And uh what unfolds, in my opinion, is one of the best seance scenes I've ever seen on film. And I think it actually, if you look at other films, becomes a template for it, you know. Uh one that jumps out to me is the others. Uh they use it almost, it's kind of almost embarrassing how much they they use from it. You stole it. Yeah. Uh and just the look on the actress's face, the one that's actually the one doing the communicating. Uh she's got this great look of just kind of the dead eyes and the the dead pan voice.

Brandon:

And plus, you know, they use they use actual like an actual technique that seance uh people automatic writing. Yeah, yeah. The automatic writing scene, which is which was some people say it's a parlor trick, some people say that it's bullshit, you know.

Shawn:

All I can say is it looks cool on film.

Brandon:

It looked awesome. I mean, and you know, the way the actors portrayed it, you actually like, wow, that's pretty fucking disturbing.

Shawn:

Yeah. Um and then especially when you got the dude who's sort of repeating everything that's written. Yeah. He just heightens the mood.

Brandon:

Yeah, I mean, but you know, seances that that was a big thing in like Victorian England and stuff like that, you know, back in the day. Um and a lot of people, you know, doubted it. Yeah. You know, it was like magic.

Shawn:

Yeah. You know. I mean, you're you're always gonna have your believers and your skeptics. Yeah.

Brandon:

It doesn't matter. I thought it was cool. I thought it was uh, you know, I always thought the idea of talk same thing with a Ouija board. Yeah, you know, I wouldn't fuck with a Ouija board, but that's just me.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Brandon:

Uh the idea that Yeah, you know, everybody wants to talk to dead people. That'd be fucking that'd be awesome. Be dope.

Shawn:

I mean, look at the movie uh Talk to Me.

Brandon:

Yeah. Or The Exorcist.

Shawn:

Yeah, yeah, man.

Brandon:

Man, talk about I don't know if I'd want to talk to Captain Howdy, though. That might be kind of scary.

Shawn:

Uh yeah, I guess that would be my concern is who am I letting in?

Brandon:

Yeah, you know, that's why they say that Ouija boards are a bad idea.

Shawn:

Yeah. You don't want to let the wrong spirit in because then who knows what can happen.

Brandon:

Especially if you it, you know, if you if you're not conversant in magic and you can't do a binding, that's just a bad idea. You know, you have to be you have to be able to bind the spirit that you're trying to bring into our dimension, you know.

Shawn:

Well, in this case, luckily the spirit wasn't trying to do anything nefarious. Yeah, he just wanted to be known. And one thing I like about this scene is how as they're doing the seance, you see it from the ghost perspective perspective as he's coming down the stairs, and then you see the the chandelier kind of moving a little bit as it moves past it. Great, great mood setting, but the scene that follows is even better, in my opinion, because we have the aftermath of that recording. We have George C. Scott or you know, Russell, he's he's listening to it, kind of trying to see if uh there's anything that that could be revealed from it. And there is. What do you think of that scene?

Brandon:

I thought it was, you know, I thought it was pretty cool. Uh I was still trying to figure out, you know, with uh with all that's going on in this movie, why the ghost is so adamant about being found out. Yeah. What happened to this kid that made him, you know.

Shawn:

I don't know. For me, if if if I was a ghost and I was killed at that age, and and my life living up to that was basically just being shunned and ashamed, my whole my whole you know, after life would be like, you are gonna fucking hear me. I'm gonna make myself known because because I wasn't yeah, I was shunned. You know, it'd be fucking the spirit would be bent on it. That that house would not have one moment's peace. Yeah, and in fact, as soon as they walked in and she's showing them around, oh man, I'd be swinging from the chandelier, I'd be making doors move, I'd make just yeah, no, no peace.

Brandon:

Yeah.

Shawn:

Ever.

Brandon:

Oh, I agree.

Shawn:

Uh what one thing I like about when he's listening to the the recording, he's playing it back. I like how the kid's voice is real subtle in the background at first, and he and he's questioning if he even heard it, and then he rewinds it, plays it again, and you're hearing him say his name, Joseph. Uh, you know, so now we know what the kid's name is, and then he's he's kind of cranking the volume up a little bit more, and we get that, and I think this is the first time that I've I've ever seen this happen where they're using the sound of tape noise as a way to heighten the moment because each time he turns it up, the first thing you hear is that tape noise, that hiss getting louder and louder and louder. And I think we heard we heard we've we saw that used in Sixth Sense, you know, in the scene where um where Bruce Willis is listening back to the tape and hearing that the kid talk to ghosts and shit. So it's it's it's definitely something that's been borrowed since then. I think it's effective. Um the ghost reveal. How he was killed, you know, because Russell is saying, How did you die? How did you die? And then we get that great shot that just fucking panoramic, just the camera zooming up the up the stairs and and up into the where the kids' room is. And uh that is probably one of the most disturbing scenes I've seen as far as we're not gonna spoil that. Yeah, yeah.

Brandon:

I mean, but it sucks. It's bad.

Shawn:

I mean, it's good, but it's bad, if you know what I mean.

Brandon:

It just makes you feel like sick to your stomach. It made me feel sick to your stuff. It's disturbing that a person could do that to a kid, yeah. For real. Especially a a a crippled kid. Yep.

Shawn:

It's fucked up, and and just a father to his own son. Yeah, you know, that's that's the part that's disturbing.

Brandon:

That's the worst part. Yeah. It's like really, you hate your kid that much? Yeah. Fucking dick.

Shawn:

And maybe, maybe it was a sign of the times or whatever for like powerful men where they feel like, well, if my kid isn't, you know, strong in in the classical sense, then they don't deserve to be this kind of thing.

Brandon:

Even Tywin Lannister didn't kill Tyrion. Yeah, he fucking hated him. Right. You know, just for an example, you know. Yeah, you talked a lot of shit to him, but he never killed him.

Shawn:

Right. Yeah, man. This guy was ruthless.

Brandon:

Fanicide is is gotta be one of the worst crimes that you could, if not the worst.

Shawn:

Yeah. For real. Killing your own child. It's brutal, man. I don't even know how you get to that place, like, you know, psychologically or otherwise. It's insane. But that, yeah, that was that that scene basically, you know, ends it as far as the mystery goes. We know now who the kid is, we know how he died, we kind of know his whole backstory. And then that the scene that follows is is uh, you know, Russell basically calls Claire and is like, Hey, come on over, I need help. I gotta talk to you. I got something I gotta get off my chest.

Brandon:

And that's where the mystery solving really starts to kick in because he, you know, he's on he he has a focus now. He knows that this kid has suffered immensely, yeah, and he has to find out why. The kid obviously wants somebody to solve it. Yeah, why else would he be doing what he's doing? And you know, there's there's there's instances where Jorcey Scott is really pissed off about it. It's like, look, I've done everything I can. What do you want from me? Yeah, and and and I think anybody would if it in that stuck in that situation where a ghost is like, hey, motherfucker, I need help. And you're the one that's like, why me? What did I do? I just rented a house.

Shawn:

Not only that, he's he's still going through his own grief. Yeah. So the fact that he has to like help this strange kid that he doesn't know.

Brandon:

I I think that's that's one probably one reason why he's so he's so adamant on solving it, because you know, he wants to help. Yeah. And he wants, you know, he doesn't want another child to have to suffer. And he finds out, I think it's a good, I think he's using it as a way to not deal with his own shit.

Shawn:

Yeah, that could be, that could be. I mean, it I think that's the brilliance of the script is is that it ties all these threads together in such a good, like a believable way in a human way, you know, like it yeah, I mean it it's it's pretty powerful, I think.

Brandon:

And it's funny because Joseph, the ghost, he tells him how and where he died. Yeah. And George C. Scott starts to, you know, do his detecting, yeah. And he finds out that the kid died in a whole different place. Yeah. He didn't die in that house, he died somewhere else.

Shawn:

Well, he died there, but he was buried in a well.

Brandon:

That this is where the movie kind of really kicks off, I think, because yeah, it goes into high gear, and like we're now in the uh we're now in the end phase of the movie. Yes, yeah. And we we we come to find out that Joseph isn't who he said he was. No. And the fact that um his father was a very rich, powerful man in Seattle at the turn of the century, yeah in like 1900 something. And you know, family scandals were looked down upon, they weren't dealt with well. So this is where the the term changeling comes in.

Shawn:

Right.

Brandon:

I'll let you describe it.

Shawn:

Yeah, I mean the the idea that basically you're swapping uh your native-born child for another and passing it on as if it was so.

Brandon:

Do you think that that was like really prevalent back in the day?

Shawn:

Like I think I I don't know if it was prevalent, but it's definitely something I mean it's like was done enough that it has a naked.

Brandon:

Like the robber barons, like the robber barons and shit. You think they did that kind of stuff?

Shawn:

Yeah, yeah. I I think so. I mean, to say face because of the Gilded Age and stuff, yeah. Cause I mean, their whole idea is like I have to have this perception of power, ultimate power. And if if my heir isn't living up to that, that's gonna put the whole thing at risk. You know, my reputation and possibly the empire.

Brandon:

It's terrible.

Shawn:

It is. I mean, that's why I think you know, people like that that that only care about power, it's uh it only brings pain, man. It's not it's not a good thing.

Brandon:

So he goes back to the historical society and finds the maps of all Seattle, yeah. Finds out the Carmichael um family farm, yep, and he finds out that there was a well there.

Shawn:

Which is odd, uh, because it's weird that a well would be that close to the coast. I mean, coastline, because it isn't like salt water intrusion a thing. But I mean, that's neither here nor there. I was just curious like why why there's a artesian well. Yeah. Uh but like back then, like Spring.

Brandon:

Yeah. A spring well.

Shawn:

Yeah, I mean, either way, either way, that's where they find it. And uh they they basically are trying to convince this uh Yeah, because a house got built over it. Yeah, yeah. So they're trying to convince the woman that lives there that uh you know, for them to basically dig up their She's like, You're full of shit.

Brandon:

Except uh three days ago, my daughter had the worst nightmare of her life.

Shawn:

Yeah.

Brandon:

And it just so happened on the day that you had your seance.

Shawn:

Yep.

Brandon:

Coinky dink.

Shawn:

You're right. Yeah. Coincidence? I think not. Which which is uh the scene that's about to follow that, one of the greatest scenes in the movie, in my opinion, uh, when we have the daughter confronted with Joseph's ghost, and scared her. And the way that she wakes up, because she's she's kind of doing the sleepwalking routine, and she's she's just moving slowly through the house, and you're just left off the camera's just on her face the whole time, and her eyes are open, and and she she looks like she's been crying, she's got tears down her face, so you're just wondering, like, man, did she is she still living in the nightmare that she's having? And then she goes to her old room because you know she she's basically been sleeping with her mom because she's terrified of going to that room because of what she's seen before. Oh, yeah, and the audience gets to see why firsthand when they see the boy just creaking through the floor, and you and just the blood curdling scream that comes out of her. It's it's bravo, man. Just great, great scene overall.

Brandon:

So they tear up the room, they start digging into the well, and then they find a hand. They find a dead body, yeah. So she's like, I'll call the police. It's like, really? Yeah, she's just gonna keep that a secret. Okay, well, we knew you were gonna call the police, but yeah, yeah, as people are want when they find a dead body.

Shawn:

Right. And the police are obviously kind of suspicious of Russell because they're like, How did you know that there was this dead child's uh remains?

Brandon:

And there's another coincidence because the cop that the the the detective that shows up is under the payroll of Carmichael. Yes. So there's the conspiracy thing starts to kick in. Yeah. It's like, uh how many people does this guy have under his wing, you know?

Shawn:

Yeah, so one one scene that I like is when he goes back to the house after everyone's left and he uh goes back into the well, and he's trying to see if he can find the medallion, because that's the thing that's gonna really tie this.

Brandon:

Yeah, that's like Joseph's Horcrux. Yeah. From like fucking Harry Potter. That's the thing that's tying him to the to big to Earth. Yeah. You know, a lot of you know, a lot of a lot of ghosts, it's either the place that they died or it's it's a you know, a family heirloom. Or like Abigail, it's a doll. Yeah, you know, yeah. It's it's it's it's a well-known fact, if you believe in that sort of thing, that you know, materials and places and it and it all comes back to to how I view it, and it's energy. Yeah. There's there's certain things that happen, certain places where the energy is just, you know, the vibrations are just bad, man. Yeah. And you or you know, you look at a you look at something and you know it's like something really bad happened with that.

Shawn:

Yeah. You know, it's like you you can sense it.

Brandon:

Yeah.

Shawn:

It's kind of like you can sense somebody in a room without seeing them. Yeah. Yeah, kind of thing.

Brandon:

It's it's uh their vibrational energy. Yeah. Listen to that gut feeling when you feel that, and you might be in some place where something really fucked up happened.

Shawn:

Yeah, it's true.

Brandon:

I've been there, yeah.

Shawn:

Next time you get that feeling, do some research and see if you're right.

Brandon:

Yeah, you might, you know, you might have just been touched by a spirit. Yeah, man. Shit's real.

Shawn:

So when he when he goes down there, the I guess Joseph pushes that little medallion up through the dirt, and it's cool, it's a cool kind of like uh reverse shot where where the you know you could tell obviously they were they had reversed it been pulled down, undercrank the camera and turn it around. Yeah, yeah.

Brandon:

And the and the I love the the sounds and the one of the oldest effects in like fucking Hollywood history.

Shawn:

Yeah, man. Still effective though. Still, I love it, you know. So now he's got the medallion, and he's uh he's gonna go confront Carmichael with it and be like, you know, I know who you are, I know you're the changeling, you're the other you're uh the other kid, you know.

Brandon:

And uh and the way and and it's funny that you mentioned that because the father he had such a an ingenious way of explaining it. Yeah, they said that they sent him to to to Switzerland to get cured of his like polio or something, yeah. And then they got they got it, they got an orphan from an orphanage.

Shawn:

Yeah.

Brandon:

Like Michael or some bullshit enough time that had passed, yeah.

Shawn:

So that's like, oh, it's a miracle. It's plausible that he could be a you know the same kid. My son was cured.

Brandon:

Yeah, it's like it was it's it's ingenious the way he did that, yeah.

Shawn:

And it's not like the days of Facebook where you could just look and go back to back, like you know, yeah, look at the pictures and be like, ah, that's not the same kid. I mean, this was before all that.

Brandon:

You know, and and this guy was uh he was a philanthropist in the community, so who's gonna say it's like oh well that we don't know. It's like oh well, he's so lucky.

Shawn:

Yeah, his son got cured. Right. And anybody that did know, I'm sure they were either well paid or intimidated to keep a secret, or shut up one or the other. Yep. Carmichael knows that he knows he's thinking he thinks that he's being blackmailed.

Brandon:

Yeah, he he tries to confront him at Boney Field. It's funny. Yeah, he runs, he drives right onto the tarmac when the when Carmack when Carmichael was trying to get into his his like private jet.

Shawn:

Right.

Brandon:

And he's like, Senator, I need to speak to you. And he pulls out the the uh the locket, yeah, and all these like security, like secret service SS guys run up and try and push him away and they grab him, yeah, and they're pulling him off, and he's like, I know who you are. Right. And Carmichael's just giving him this fucking look, like, you motherfucker. Yep. And um, when they get into the plane, Carmichael's like, send this to whoever it was. I can't remember. The detective, yeah. What is that cop's name?

Shawn:

Uh, good question. No, put it in the comments. Yeah, I forgot. He's a cop.

Brandon:

He's just a cop. We'll we'll say that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So he sends word to him, and this cop shows up at George C. Scott's house the next day, and he's like, Hey, um, you were such and such, right? Right. George C. Scott's like, well, yeah. And then um he's like, You were here such and such a time with such and such locket. And why are you why are you why are you trying to blackmail him? I want the locket now. It's like totally like Secret Service fucking just strong, arming the fuck out of him, right? Yeah, just like okay, cop.

Shawn:

So yeah, he basically uh he leaves him with uh when he when he goes to his office, he he leaves him with the lock or with the uh medallion and the the recordings of the seance and says there's there's no other copies. Here's the evidence, here's everything, uh do with it what you will.

Brandon:

And he said he said there's one copy, you do with it what you want. Exactly. And uh, and the funny thing is, it's like Carmichael, he's still threatening him. It's like if you speak a word to this, it's like, who am I gonna tell, dude? Yeah, dude. I don't care.

Shawn:

Yeah, he's showing his true colors at that moment. Yeah, you kind of know, okay, you're a little weasel.

Brandon:

As as any slimy senator or you know, uh bureaucratic big women in power, yeah.

Shawn:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I I find that interesting, that little thread. That uh what was her name? The woman from the historical society. Minnie. Yeah, Minnie, uh, how she is she's tied to Carmichael. Yeah, because she's she's giving him a personal call, snitching.

Brandon:

Minnie the snitch. Yeah, that's that's her new name.

Shawn:

Yeah, so when Claire goes there, she's basically uh getting chased around by the yeah, the wheelchair chases around and she's like ah, she's just fucking freaking out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And she basically gets chased all the way down the stairs, throws herself down the stairs essentially, as the wheelchair comes after her, and then that's when Russell shows up, and she's hysterical at this point at the bottom of the stairs.

Brandon:

And Joseph is just he's losing his shit.

Shawn:

Oh, dude, he's rocking the fucking the whole place, is just he's getting ready to link it.

Brandon:

He's he's getting ready to burn the place down. Yeah. Uh-huh.

Shawn:

Yeah. And so Russell tells Claire to wait outside, and he he's gonna go and confront, you know, the ghost essentially.

Brandon:

And Carmichael shows up.

Shawn:

Surprising. Yeah, so Carmichael, this is an interesting thing where it's like almost uh like he's being uh astro projecting himself from his current location in Seattle, you know, wherever, you know, however far away it is to this house. And uh, you know, we see we see the uh the house kind of basically you know turning into flames, you know. The uh I'm trying to remember exactly how the sequence of events happens, but uh essentially, you know, uh Russell is unable to go up the stairs, and so uh as he's because he falls down the stairs. Yeah, yeah, exactly. He falls down the stairs and then he's all messed up, yeah, yeah. And then we see Carmichael walking up the stairs like almost in a trance, and then the stairs collapse, and more of the place is enveloped in flames, and he just continues walking up the stairs as if he's accepted his fate, and he's willing to, you know, basically give his life to make things right, which bravo. I think that's what needed to be done. Yeah, and it's interesting because uh when he goes to the room where where the child dies, and then he witnesses how the child dies, we see Carmichael in his what I believe to be his physical self in in his office, what looks to be a uh a massive heart attack because he's witnessing something so horrific. And um, so yeah, he basically collapses in his office, and the whole house burns down. So, some some interesting stuff happening at the end. Uh, but I love the way it transitions today, and we see the remnants of the house, you know, the charred remains, and we see the boys' uh wheelchair, and then of course we get a close-up of the music box.

Brandon:

It's a great ending.

Shawn:

Yeah, the music box opens up and we hear that song from the earlier in the movie, and uh the credits roll. That's it. That's the changeling in all its glory.

Brandon:

It's a great movie.

Shawn:

Yeah.

Brandon:

Anyone who hasn't seen it, I thoroughly enjoyed it. Yeah, it's always cool when somebody can hip you to a movie. Because I had always seen like the box of it for at the video store, but I just never rented it, just didn't cross my radar or anything.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Brandon:

Then when somebody hips you to it and then you watch it and you're like, fuck, that's a great movie, dude.

Shawn:

And that's that's what happened to me. That's how I was introduced. You know, one of my friends said, Hey, you gotta watch this thing, man. It's it's one of the best haunted house movies ever.

Brandon:

So and our next episode is gonna be one of the best eco-horror movies ever.

Shawn:

And what's that episode? What's that gonna be?

Brandon:

We're doing Razorback for our Halloween episode, and it's gonna be a special treat for everybody.

Shawn:

Hell yeah.

Brandon:

It's one of the greatest indie horror films ever made, in my opinion. Yeah, and I think everybody's gonna really like that episode. That's gonna be our special Halloween episode.

Shawn:

And I haven't seen it yet, I've only seen parts of it, and it looks amazing.

Brandon:

Yeah, so a very atmospheric horror film, and um we like to take the approach of uh uh rarer, more obscure films. So and I've always I always hype this movie because it's one of the greatest, I think one of the greatest indie horror films ever made. I think I think people are gonna like this episode.

Shawn:

Hell yeah. Well, that wraps up this week of the Dark Territory Podcast. Uh like and subscribe, as always.

Brandon:

And leave a comment.

Shawn:

Leave a comment. We want to hear from you. Absolutely. Join us next week when we review the movie The Foggy.