The Dark Territory
A deep dive into unsettling, obscure, and often overlooked works in film, literature, and music. From body horror to haunted Americana, industrial noise to dystopian novels — it's about exploring the media that lingers in the shadows.
The Dark Territory
Into Pan’s Labyrinth: Fantasy Against Fascism
A fairy tale can feel like a soft place to land—until it throws you against the hard edges of history. We dive headlong into Pan’s Labyrinth to explore how Guillermo del Toro fuses myth with the machinery of fascism, building a world where a child’s imagination is not escape but defiance. From the cracked ritual of Captain Vidal’s watch to the spiraling promise of the labyrinth, every image argues about order, power, and the price of wonder.
We map Ophelia’s three trials and what each demands: the toad bloated on greed, the mandrake that blurs care and taboo, and the Pale Man’s banquet, a gallery of red appetites and stolen childhoods. Doug Jones’ performances as the Fawn and the Pale Man anchor the film’s tactile horror; those practical effects make the creatures feel grown from bark, dust, and bone. Alongside the mythic, we champion Mercedes and the doctor—the logistics of resistance, the quiet heroism of stolen antibiotics, hidden keys, and a lullaby that keeps a fragile humanity alive under a boot.
When the full moon rises, the story’s knife turns. Ophelia’s final refusal—choosing her brother’s life over an immortal throne—lands as the film’s moral center: true power is the strength to stop the ritual. We sit with the ending’s ache and its light, asking whether the realm is real or the last refuge of a brave mind. Either way, Del Toro’s vision endures because it refuses a single narrative and invites us to act—look closely, care fiercely, and never trade blood for a crown.
If this breakdown moved you, tap follow, share the show with a friend who loves cinema that cuts deep, and leave a review with your take on the ending—we’ll read our favorites on the next episode.
I want to see how much Sean can take.
SPEAKER_00:Uh oh. I don't like the sound of that. My leg's already twitching.
SPEAKER_03:Okay, okay, that's it. That's it. That's all I could do.
SPEAKER_02:That was longer than I thought I could go. Yeah, I'm impressed. That for some reason they say that that's supposed to be relaxing. That is not relaxing. For psychopaths, that's relaxing.
SPEAKER_00:I'm Sean. I'm Brandon. Each week we dive into the films, music, and books that fuel our passion for everything dark, mysterious, and strange. Today we're going to explore Guillermo del Toro's fantasy masterpiece, Pans Labyrinth. This is this was the first of his movies that I ever saw. It was my second. Your second. What was your first? Kronos. Oh yeah. Okay. Kronos is good. Kronos is probably I think I would go Devil's Backbone, Kronos, and then Pans. I never got into any of the.
SPEAKER_02:My favorite of his is Hellboy though.
SPEAKER_00:See, that's where we veer. I'm not I'm not a big Hellboy fan. I just never was.
SPEAKER_02:I was always well, I was more into the comics before the movies.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, yeah. I could understand that. If like if you're a big fan of the comics, like the fucking comics are great.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. No, I like Mike Mignola. His art is incredible.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Are they still?
SPEAKER_02:I like I like all of Dark Horse's shit though. Yeah, I know, like BPRD and all that. But other artists have came into the Hellboy comics, so yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Alright. Movie starts out, you get a little kind of uh fairy tale, kind of like uh you're being told.
SPEAKER_02:I I guess it's fucking right off the bat, this chick is this kid is fucking laying on the ground.
SPEAKER_00:That's true, that's true, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:They pretty much spoil the ending for you right at the beginning. It's like this kid gets fucked off.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, dude. And she's uh they it's kind of doing a memento style intro where it's going backwards.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Her princess name is uh Princess Moana.
SPEAKER_00:Moana.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah. But the girl's name in real life is Ophelia. Yeah. In real life in the movie. In the movie. Yeah, this movie, this movie falls in there's to me, there's two different categories of fantasy. We we were talking about this earlier. But there's like cool fantasy like Conan and Lord of the Rings, and then there's lame fantasy like Labyrinth, yeah, and Princess Bride and Harry Potter. And Harry Potter. Yeah, it's like fuck Labyrinth. You heard it here first. Yeah, and this movie falls to me, it it falls a little bit more towards the good shit. I don't know. It just uh sometimes this movie hits wrong. I don't know. Maybe it's it was just my mood. I don't know. Yeah, yeah. For one reason I don't like this movie is because I really don't like seeing kids in peril. Yeah. And they don't this poor kid, she's trapped right in the middle of uh Franco's regime, yeah. And her mother is trapped in a loveless marriage with a literal fucking fascist, yes, uh, a captain in in Franco's fucking army, so it's like this kid doesn't have a chance. No, and the guy's giving the kid a hard time because the you know, she's a child, she's into fairy tales and she loves to read and stuff like that. She's kids don't have the luxury of of what adults get to do to escape, they don't get to do fucking drugs and drink and gamble. They have just their imagination, yeah. They have to, you know, they have to rely on other devices to fucking for an escape.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Well, that's why I thought it was kind of a brilliant device, like on Guillermo's part, like using the child and a child's natural instincts to escape through their imagination.
SPEAKER_02:Well, everybody did it. Yeah. A lot of people still do it to this day. I mean, that's how I get my escape.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, man. Books and films and music.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. You know, and uh the the occasional beer nowadays, nothing like it was back in the day, though. Yeah, man. You know, I've pretty much got a handle on that for the most part. But yeah, you know, fairy tale, you know, that's what's great about being a human. It's like we're the only species that is a storytelling, and that you know, that's pertinent because it's this is what this movie's all about. It's about the power of myth, yes, and what it does, how it can help and hinder you. Yes. Because this little girl, she's not grasping the situation, her real life situation of what's going on. Yeah, it's like you are in a bad spot, kid.
SPEAKER_00:And you're chasing fawns and doing these strange little uh challenges.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, it's like you need to get a grip.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. In most situations, you wouldn't have that luxury even as a kid. No, you'd be told to grow up faster.
SPEAKER_02:The funny thing is, it's like, you know, because this movie is in in essence, it's about fascism, it's about the power and control. And like Heinrich Himmler, he was obsessed with myth. I mean, I think that plays into a lot of like the world building that fascists and the Nazis did. Oh yeah. Because it's like it's like they're building a fucking a society that can't exist.
SPEAKER_00:It's mythical in in in their ideology behind it.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, and that's that's part of like the German psyche, I think. It's like because there's so many fairy tales and things like that came from Germany that yeah, it's ingrained in our fucking in our in our DNA.
SPEAKER_00:Sure. That's why I don't understand fascism.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, like like the Grim like Grim brothers and stuff like that. I mean, it's like my I read that shit when I was a kid.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:You know, I mean, and it still affects me to this day. Sure. But yeah, we get to we we meet Ophelia right off the bat, and she's uh she's stuck in a bad spot. They uh they're going to the this villa in the country to meet uh to to hook up with the mom's new husband. Yep. Captain Vidal. Captain Vidal. Yeah, is it Vidal?
SPEAKER_00:Vidal V-I-D-A-L, thank you.
SPEAKER_02:Her mom's giving her a bunch of shit about her reading habits. Yeah. The kid loves to read fairy tales.
SPEAKER_00:Ophelia Ophelia, I know. Sorry, she's got a weird name. Ophelia. Ophelia. Uh, she gets out to explore and she finds this fucking weird like eye.
SPEAKER_02:Like a men herd is like a a standing stone. Yeah. She finds a a piece of its eye.
SPEAKER_00:And then this weird bug crawls out of the hole.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, and and I think uh I think uh Del Toro was trying to maybe speak a little bit on uh Odin. So that stone has one eye and then she gives him his eye back. It's like she's taking a little bit of the of Odin's wisdom back because Odin lost his fucking eye for he sacrificed his eye to to gain all knowledge of the world.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, that's interesting. Yeah, I hadn't thought about that. That could be.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I mean, because all all fairy tales and like myth mythology to me, they're all they're all the same. Yeah, it's like that Joseph Campbell, yeah, like Man of a Thousand Faces, yeah.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And I guess they actually had Guillermo del Toro has real stick bugs. And they had two of them, and they had like thousands of course you'd have one stick bugs. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I guess the ones that they used to model after the the CGI ones, uh they passed away, but they left like a thousand babies.
SPEAKER_02:So they had plenty of uh it's like in uh yeah, it's like in uh Lord of the Rings when they when uh when Gandalf in the first one has that fucking weird looking like I think it's a fruit moth.
SPEAKER_00:Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_02:But they had to gauge the scene by the thing's life cycle.
SPEAKER_00:Okay.
SPEAKER_03:So they were like, okay, it's alive now.
SPEAKER_02:It came out of its pupa and that uh it's pupa, and then it's there they can do the scene.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:So they're like timing, it's like, okay, Jesus Pete.
SPEAKER_00:Way to commit though. Yeah, it's wild.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. I don't think I could be that kind of filmmaker. No, bro, we got work to do. Yeah, you know, we can't be all fanciful and shit.
SPEAKER_00:For real. Sometimes you just gotta be practical.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, it's like, come on, man.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, we know you're fucking you're witty. It's a good story. Yeah, just make it a story, you know, just make it up.
SPEAKER_02:It's like Tolkien did all the work for you. You don't have to make it more fucking whimsical. Yeah, for real.
SPEAKER_03:We have this moth, but we have to wait for it.
SPEAKER_02:Fucking dumb, dude. Come on.
SPEAKER_00:So uh anyway, the the little stick bug flies off, and Ophelia's enchanted by it. Uh, and so you know, they get back in the the car and drive off, and then we see uh Videl for the first time. Yep. Looking at his dad's stopwatch. That busted watch. Busted watch, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:The exact moment his dad died.
SPEAKER_00:He's uh he's a stickler for being on time. He wants everybody to be on time. Oh yeah. He's all about order. Oh, yeah. And uh he's like they're 15 minutes late.
SPEAKER_02:The trains have to be on time, just like our good buddy Benito.
SPEAKER_00:So yeah, anyway, they show up. Mom gets out, and uh he he right away he he's asking about the the kid. Yeah, he's not really concerned about her, it's all about you know making sure his son is Yeah, he uh he get he even gets pissed off at Ophelia because she she shakes with the wrong hand.
SPEAKER_02:It's like bro, she's trying to be polite. For real, dude. Give the kid a break. Yeah, this is gonna be your stepdaughter, yeah, or it is your stepdaughter.
SPEAKER_00:It's like it's not one of your disciples.
SPEAKER_03:Don't be an asshole, bro. Just calm down, relax. Brother, ooh, why are you being a fascist?
SPEAKER_01:Brother.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Yeah, and so basically he uh Videl brings down brings out a wheelchair and is like, you can't the doctor says you can't overexert yourself to the mom because he's worried about God knows what this guy's thinking. Man, I I don't even want to go into this guy's mind because it's dark and scary.
SPEAKER_02:He's dreaming about probably what all fascists dreamt like ego, imposing architecture, boots.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, I'm gonna have a carbon copy of myself takeover.
SPEAKER_02:When I always thought of fascism, I thought of that quote from 1984. It's like if you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stomping on a human face forever. Yeah, that to me, I mean, and the they're not fascists in that book. To me, they were more fucking communist, but yeah, it's the same fucking concept.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's a good why do all fascists wear boots to stomp on your face forever. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Alright, so and I think that there's a correlation between fascism and those boots. They all wore the same fucking riding boots, you know.
unknown:True.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:You know, what is it about those fucking English riding boots that got them to the is it just that they're so imposing looking and maybe.
SPEAKER_00:I mean, all a lot of you know the power of fascism and spreading it is is the superficial part, you know, you want to present yourself a certain way.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, because I used to wear like twenty whole docks.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And maybe it's just the fact that it makes you stand up straighter or because when I wore those, I felt like fucking.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, could be. Also could be a sign of wealth, maybe at the time, because you're using more material and looks more impressive. I don't know.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, I know like with the you know, like uh the Third Reich, it was uh because they were a cavalry-based tradition. Oh, because the German attested the German army, yeah. The German army was a a cavalry-based tradition dating back to fucking like the 1300s.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. That's crazy. Interesting. Yeah, yeah. I think it's all relevant. Yeah, it's all pertinent. Yeah. But uh yeah, after uh she gets a cold introduction to her new stepfather, she uh she sees that bug again. Yeah, dude, he's straight up an asshole.
SPEAKER_02:Then she goes and she takes a walk in the woods and she finds the labyrinth.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and the gate gateway to this thing looks fucking cool.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, it's pretty imposing. It's uh it's a great, it's a great long shot into like into like it's a great shot into her fucking her fantasy world.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. It's like an interior landscape of this girl's imagination as she's diving deeper into it.
SPEAKER_02:Plus, I mean I think that uh that's the great thing about this movie because you never know if it's fucking real or not. No, it's like is she really in that or is this all in her head?
SPEAKER_00:Well, and if I was her age and I came across a place that looked like this, I would fucking believe that there's some shit going on.
SPEAKER_02:Well, well, yeah, dude. I'd probably stay the fuck out of it. I'd be like, I don't know, man. That's pretty sus.
SPEAKER_00:Especially at night, man. That place is creepy. It looks like they have sacrifices, which they have sacrifices. Spoiler. There is no pinprick. It's a full-on dagger, man. That thing is going through human flesh. Yeah. But yeah, so she goes through and he's a blood of vengeance.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Uh, but then we see Mercedes creep up on her. She's like, what are you doing? Yeah, she's like Yeah. Oh, you think she's yeah, she's good looking.
SPEAKER_02:She's uh she's better looking than the mom.
SPEAKER_00:You think so? I actually prefer the mom. You prefer Mercedes? Interesting. I think I prefer Mercedes as far as like her personality goes. Because she's a badass. She's a spy. Spoiler. It's not a spoiler.
SPEAKER_02:It's in the fucking movie.
SPEAKER_00:That's true. As we're telling it.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. But uh, so yeah, she uh she basically uh doesn't doesn't um Ophelia kind of talk to Mercedes about like fairies and shit.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. And Mercedes try is trying to like stare her in the right direction. It's like, look, you need to fucking stop this nonsense a little bit, you know. You need to fucking grow up a little keep not necessarily grow up, but like kind of keep it to yourself.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. Certain people around might not appreciate your imagination.
SPEAKER_02:You know, they might in you know, they might look at you as an intellectual and that was a punishable offense in that regime. Yeah, most likely. You could be you could have been seen as uh trying to sow dissent. Yep.
SPEAKER_00:They don't want you to veer from the cause.
SPEAKER_02:No, yeah. Yeah, nothing there's nothing more important than the state.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, this is gross. Oh shit. I believe in collective people coming together for a uh common cause, but fascism is not the cause that you should rally around. Because you're basically uh rallying around one man and his whims and his you know beliefs. It's not good. Yeah. But yeah, so we get uh Videl and they're basically talking about uh the gorillas.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, they're talking about partisan activity in the forests because they're all the the partisans, they're they're based off in like uh the mountains.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's very isolated, you know. Again, I think it's to also show how isolated the mother is and how isolated the girl is in the and uh Mercedes is uh she's stealing supplies from the storehouse to give to her brother who is the leader of the partisans. Yep. Which you'll meet, and they they they they're just kind of hiding out around the perimeter at this point.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, they're they're trying to they're trying to do maneuvers to get to take Vidal out because he's the most powerful arm of it. Yeah, he's the most powerful captain in that area. I'm sure there's I don't know if this was near the near the tail end of Tito's yeah, I think it was of uh Franco's regime or what, but yeah.
SPEAKER_00:I think it was, which uh in the movie you're not quite sure like where the power Yeah, because you you don't hear anything about the outside world of like what's going on with the war.
SPEAKER_02:Because the Spanish the Spanish Civil War had already been over.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And Franco had won.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yep. But yeah, then we meet um the doctor, who's another main character in all this. Yeah, he's pretty cool. Yeah, I like the doctor a lot.
SPEAKER_02:He's got a lot of uh he's doing maneuvers too.
SPEAKER_00:He's playing both sides, providing uh by antibiotics and supplies.
SPEAKER_02:He's stealing antibiotics, yeah. And the uh Captain Vidal, he finds some uh ampules of antibiotics hidden in like areas and shit. He's like, oh someone's stealing our stuff. Yep. And he's trying to get to the bottom of it. Yes. So he tells uh Mercedes is the only one that has a key to the storeroom. Yep, so he's like, I want the key, give it up.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:I think that's a little bit later.
SPEAKER_00:It's a little bit later. But they uh Mercedes and the doctor talk about, I guess, one of their comrades is uh he's got a leg wound. It's not healing, so it's basically gangrius. I think.
SPEAKER_02:Is that the guy that's uh stutterer? No, no, no, it's an old dude. Yeah, yeah, they they straight up get a bone saw out of that motherfucker. Amputated shit, it's pretty gnarly looking.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Um not gonna get into the gory details. No, and we like our last episode. That was bad, dude.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, we're sorry. Yeah, sometimes we don't get it.
SPEAKER_02:But I you know, we're gonna we're not gonna be as visceral as that is going forward. I had to get that out of my system. I think we both did. Yeah. No, no offense to the bands that we talked about.
SPEAKER_00:Nah. It's all in good jest. Yeah. And we'll for this one, we might skip over a little bit. We're we're kind of generalizing because they're just setting, we're setting the scene for this whole movie. Yeah, there's there's only four or five main characters throughout this whole thing. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Um, and they're all you know, we haven't even got to the the fawn yet.
SPEAKER_00:No, this is great.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, Doug Jones, he's a great actor.
SPEAKER_00:That guy is amazing.
SPEAKER_02:The fact that he did two roles in this movie.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, the pale man. Yeah, yeah, which is another cool.
SPEAKER_02:I think I think he and the way he emotes is really cool because I always liked him as an Ape Sapien. But Ape Sapien is like one of my favorite like characters from comics, yeah. Yeah, no. Not Hellboy. Fucking Ape Sapiens is shit. Yeah. And Doug Jones, he's he emotes so well. He's like Andy Circus, in my opinion. He's a great actor.
SPEAKER_00:He's like an athlete the way he tackles his roles because he's very physic. There's a lot of physicality that comes with it. Yeah. And especially with this one, he had to be on stilts for Pan, which is fucking.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, it's like the guy that was in the Krampus suit for the movie Krampus. Yeah, I I couldn't do it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Voice acting, yeah, I could do that, but like wearing all that shit, no.
SPEAKER_00:For real.
SPEAKER_02:Fuck no.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, not me. It takes a special kind of person to do that. Yeah. But yeah, so we get the uh the mom and the daughter, and they're kind of in in bit trying to get to sleep. And she's uh the I guess the daughter comes in, you know, to sleep with her mom. It's a tender moment.
SPEAKER_02:She tells Ophelia's mom tells her that her brother's acting up to tell him a story. So she talks, she starts talking to her baby brother.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Tell tells her her brother a little uh bedtime story.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Which is it's cool how it kind of goes down and and you see the actual fetus inside. Yeah, and he's chilling, just chilling, listening. It's like, okay, cool.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, it's like awesome.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Yeah. I like that scene a lot. Yeah, and then we go back to the to Vidal. And he's got I think it is it the first time? No, it's the second time we see the watch, but when do we actually see does he explicitly say it's his father's? Yeah. Okay.
SPEAKER_02:He tells him about it at dinner.
SPEAKER_00:That's right.
SPEAKER_02:When he has all his buddies show up.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. And they have that sycophants.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, all the the wives and the fucking all the other dudes.
SPEAKER_00:Ooh, I got some coffee grounds. Delicious.
SPEAKER_02:Come on, dude. Stop drinking on food.
SPEAKER_00:I'm right, alright. I'm well, I'm done now because I was nice. Um, I like the part where the doctor comes in and he's talking to me. He's like, um, he's like, what makes you think your baby's a male? He's like, Don't fuck with me.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, it's like 50-50 chance, bro.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. For him, it's a certainty.
SPEAKER_02:It may really fuck with you if it lives a hermaphrodite. What the fuck is this? Yeah. You get the best of both worlds.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, man. Hell. Yeah. But uh, I guess they get uh word that there's some trespassers. Yeah. And they go out to investigate, and it's a father and son, and they're basically just uh hunting rabbits, saying his uh they're his sister's uh sick or something, they're trying to get food. And uh Vidal's not having any of it. Yeah, and this is the first shocking scene uh of violence where he basically takes the the bottle and fucking just smashes the son's face in essentially.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, for was that necessary, right? Yeah, I mean, yeah, they're trespassers, but you could have just these are uncertain times.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I mean you fucking detain them. Yeah, you know, don't kick them off your land. For real. You don't have to fucking kill them. But yeah, in cold blood, kills both of them, you know, and then takes the rabbits and basically a hands. Cook these go cook them. There's not enough meat on them. Well, maybe they'll make a stew. Yeah. It's like, okay, good on you, buddy. Yeah. This is where she uh she wakes up and that fucking that little bug comes back into the into their room. Oh, yeah, and then she turns into a fairy. She shows it the yeah, she shows it the picture of the fairy, and so in order for it to I it's one of those things that's ambiguous. You're not sure if if it changes into the shape of the fairy because of the girl showed it, or if that's its true form, but it does. It changes into the fairy, and then it's like, okay, now you understand, and then they uh it basically it shows shows it down to the fucking labyrinth, and and that's where we meet Pan for the first time.
SPEAKER_03:The fawn.
SPEAKER_00:The fawn, yeah. And it's a badass design, man, of I think of any fawn in any.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, it looks pretty like heathen and pagan. I was like, that's to me, yeah, that's that's what a fawn would look like.
SPEAKER_00:It looks like it's made of the earth, like a tree. Yeah, like it's cards. One of the fairy even lands on it like it's a tree and then it turns around.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Yeah. It's like the Ents and Lord of the Rings, you know.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I think those are cool. But yeah, as Pan kind of introduces himself and tells uh Ophelia about the basically your prince.
SPEAKER_02:It's like sweet.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, oh, okay. I'm I your highness.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, what kid wasn't a kingdom in their own fucking mind back in the day. Real dude. When they're every kid does it. Yep. Their internal landscape.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. I remember one time there was this uh in front of my my grandma's house where me and my sister used to live. There's these giant ditches that I'd be digging in all the time, me and my sister would. I remember one time I told my sister that there was a there was a body inside of the inside of it, and she's like, I put it there. Yeah, she's like, Well, where is it? I'm like, Well, it's it's it's gone.
SPEAKER_02:It's it's rotten. That's fucking wild, bro. Yeah, yeah. That's okay. When I was a kid, I thought the trees in our pasture were giants.
SPEAKER_00:Nice, hell yeah. That's what's so great about being a kid, dude. You just let your imagination run wild.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I mean, and in my mind, those were fucking giants that I had to kill. I was a giant slayer.
SPEAKER_00:Nice, hell yeah. I love that shit. Yeah. So yeah, Pan basically tells her that she is uh Princess Moana, daughter of the king. Isn't that a Disney movie? It sounds like, yeah, isn't it Moana? Yeah, I think it is. Disney stole that shit. Yeah, what the fuck? Come on, Del Toro, sue him. Yeah, all right. So yeah, he basically says your real father uh had us open portals. And in order you you might be immortal, and so we have I have these tests that you have to do, yeah, essentially, to prove that you're gonna fucking pass the interview. Yeah. That's what's great about this whole movie, is you're not quite sure at first, like, is he just fucking with her? Like, he's a fawn, so apparently fawns are kind of known for being tricky trick tricksters, tricksters, thank you. Yeah, yeah. Like the OG tricksters besides for real, dude. So, yeah, basically he's he's got these three challenges that he has to do before the full moon.
SPEAKER_02:And uh yeah, when the full moon's risen, then they're gonna have fucking their sacrifice.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, which she doesn't really know it yet. She's just going along with it for right now. But uh, so yeah, that's kind of our introduction to to the pan. And uh then we get back to uh Vidal shaving, which I think we we see him shave quite a bit in this movie. You know, he likes his routine.
SPEAKER_02:It's that going back to order.
SPEAKER_00:Yes. And uh Mercedes comes back and basically he says, Here's some rabbits, go cook 'em for dinner. Yeah. You know. And uh it's funny, the cooks and the helper kind of like, you know, he's such a fussy little dandy, you know. They're they're kind of talking shit.
SPEAKER_03:They're like, Ya pinche puto.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. He's like, they're like, we need more beef and chicken. What the fuck is this? Yeah. What are we gonna do with rabbits? Yeah, like I don't know, make a stew out of it.
SPEAKER_02:All these these old fucking, these old uh abuelitas are all fucking this guy sucks. Yeah, he does this guy. Fucking A man. I'm butchering the Spanish language, but I don't give a shit.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's not it's not like we speak fluid Spanish.
SPEAKER_02:See, I'm a white cholo. We should do a death row final meals. Yeah. Oh, there's a guy that already does that on YouTube, though.
SPEAKER_00:So or what about uh just prison recipes? Like the shit that you have. Oh, like doing swolls and shit.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, no, so much fucking sodium, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:For real. Making a brick. And then, yeah, literally making a brick. You're gonna it's coming out of brick.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. I made one.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Or making uh oh, there's all sorts of shit you can make. You take fucking uh that instant coffee and make fucking uh espresso brownies and shit.
SPEAKER_00:Really?
SPEAKER_02:Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:There's all sorts of stuff you can make. We should do that and then we should have uh reactions afterwards, like if they turn out good. It tastes like shit. Yeah, what a waste of fucking time.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, it's like no wonder. It's like the well, you gotta make do with it when you're in fucking locked up.
SPEAKER_00:Well, yeah. All you got is time. Yeah, come up with all kinds of shit.
SPEAKER_02:And you make candy.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:So it seems like uh all the woods though, they they're the ones that made all the fucking candy, because you know, they're like cooking dope and shit. They're the ones that that are good at letting. They're the chemists, yeah. They're they're the ones. All all my wood brothers, they're the ones fucking uh making all the good shit.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, man.
SPEAKER_02:It's all good. We're both wood, so there you go.
SPEAKER_00:There you go. Yeah, my bo uh, my mom's boyfriend's last name was Wood. And her name was Furnace.
SPEAKER_02:See a pecker wood? Uh white boy?
SPEAKER_00:Uh he's Swedish. Oh. Full on. He's an OG Pecker Wood. Yeah. For real. Big dude, though. I remember when I was a kid. I mean, this guy was a fucking Viking.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Literally. You're kind of scary. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Good food, though, man. I went to one of his uh family reunions and it was fun. They like to sing and get drunk and make eat food. It's great. Ah, the Vikings. Uh yes. Gotta love them. Alright, so getting back to the movie. Ophelia, uh, Ophelia's mom gives her this dress and she wants to look pretty because they're having they're gonna have some just fancy dinner, I guess, you know, and she wants wants her daughter to present well.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. It's a beautiful dress.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. She looks pretty in it. Yep. And while she's in the bathroom, she's looking at the book.
SPEAKER_02:It was probably a very expensive dress to either procure or make because they're rationing.
SPEAKER_00:So that was a uh a luxury. Yeah. Big time.
SPEAKER_02:Exactly.
SPEAKER_00:Yep.
SPEAKER_02:It looked like velvet too, so it's like Yeah. Probably costs a pretty penny to make.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And she doesn't exactly take care of it.
SPEAKER_02:No. Fuck no.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, she doesn't necessarily purposefully do it, but she leaves it out hanging on a tree.
SPEAKER_00:Let's just say she's a little careless.
SPEAKER_02:A little bit.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. So yeah, she she's in the bathroom alone, you know, and and she opens the book, and this is where the book sort of takes on its magical qualities and and sort of unfolds the story, you know, in front of her.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, shows the tree, and there it says arbor at the top.
SPEAKER_00:Such a cool looking tree. It looks like it got hit by lightning, like in the middle, and it sort of branches out in weird ways. It looks like a portal. Yeah. Which it basically is. Kind of is. Yeah. Yeah, and her mom through the door, she's like, You'll look like a princess. And she's like, Princess, and she's looking at her shoulder and sees that little moon shape birthmark. And so it's again, it's kind of playing into her whole imagination.
SPEAKER_02:Private mythology.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, exactly. Uh, yeah. So she comes out, it's all dressed up, looks looks uh pretty.
SPEAKER_02:And uh then she decides to go out and play. It's like you should not have fucking worn that dress outside.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. First uh, first Mercedes asks she wants some milk. Yeah. And then we get this great shot of uh Mercedes just going to town on this cow. Oh, yeah. The udders. I don't know. Uh have you ever had fresh milk?
SPEAKER_02:Probably a long time ago. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:I had it.
SPEAKER_02:My uh I don't hang out on farms, so I was a hick boy.
SPEAKER_00:My my aunt had a farm.
SPEAKER_02:Well, yeah, you lived in ording.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. My friend also, yeah. Her mom had a farm. I would actually watch my friend uh because they butcher their own meat. And so uh I've done that, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Every so often doing farm kills for uh Roy Johnson.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, we'd straight up just uh see him take the you know basically uh take out all the cows or sheep or whatever the they're doing.
SPEAKER_02:That's fucking I used to do that all the time. I did that for a living.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, man.
SPEAKER_02:You were a butcher 23 years.
SPEAKER_00:Fucking eh, that's a long time.
SPEAKER_02:I had my side hustles and what was your favorite cut? On a cow? Yeah. A fucking ribeye. Yeah. Same. Definitely. Yeah, yeah. It's the either ribeye or fucking uh shoreline.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Ribeye, you get the bone and it's nice and moist, and then you get the all the marble.
SPEAKER_02:That ribbon of fat that goes through the middle.
SPEAKER_00:For real.
SPEAKER_02:But yeah, so we get uh Ophelia and I think we've talked more about fascism in this episode than the actual fascism. Well, it it is a major plot point of this film. Yeah, I think it's the main plot point.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, exactly. That's why, like in all the shots with uh, you know, when they're in reality, they're a lot colder looking, and then you get the shots where she's in her fantasy world and all the colors are popping.
SPEAKER_02:And it doesn't help that they had like it was all almost like you know, like a dark blue uniform.
SPEAKER_00:But yeah, Mercedes, I think they're this is the part where she's the girl's kind of asking and like, do you believe in fairies and stuff like that? And she's like, I used to, but I don't anymore.
SPEAKER_02:I'm an adult.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, I you know what? I'm not gonna lie and say that I don't occasionally read fairy tales because they're good. It's a good, it's a good uh medium of storytelling. I mean, it's the original storytelling medium, sure, but you know, you you just can't get into it as an adult.
SPEAKER_00:It's hard to do.
SPEAKER_02:I like I like I think there's a certain naivete that comes with reading those stories. It's like they're geared toward children.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, they were meant to pass the time, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:You know, they're bedtime stories, yeah. I'm a Grimm's fairy tale guy myself. Sure. Just cause that's what I was raised on.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Especially Hansel and Gretel. That was like my main That was your jam. Oh, that fucking story terrified me as it too. Like, yeah, especially uh the way my uh my grandmother would say she would do the witch voice. I'd be like, Don't say it like that.
SPEAKER_00:After I watched that, my grandma she's would always fatten me up with food all the time. And after I saw that, I was kind of looking at my grandma a little differently. Like, grandma, are you gonna eat me?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, and how like the witch and the story keeps poking them in the stomach. Yeah, like are you fatty yet? Yeah, and that's why I think that's a lot of the reason why um you know a lot of serial killers get compared to especially like cannibals and stuff, because in essence that story is about cannibalism and witchcraft and yeah, well, it temptation. Yeah, it's our way of dealing with the the evil realities.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. That's what I like about any of these fantasy tales is you can take them both ways.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, you can read into them and take them verbatim, like that's what I think that's another reason why we have like vampire stories and werewolf stories, is because it's our way of dealing with the evil nature of man. Sure. Making sense of our dark nature. Yeah, exactly. It's like that's why those stories will never ever go away.
SPEAKER_00:Never. No, that's why I like them.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, three three hundred years from now, when we're all long gone, those stories will still be there.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, waiting for somebody else to pick them up.
SPEAKER_02:So it's the same thing with uh with Lovecraft.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Everybody waxes about how evil he was and this and that. It's like, yeah, but when you're long gone, Lovecraft is still gonna be there. Well, and those stories ring true still. Oh, especially the uh the cosmic indifference of Lovecraft. And and and I know we're veering off a lot on this episode, but that's just it's still pertinent. That's the nature of it because yeah, this it's as a big mythology is huge. And I think that's what Del Toro was trying to say in his story is that look, this is it's bigger than all of us. Yeah. Yeah. And that in in it in of itself, he's telling the story about how fascism in his country fascism in Spain ripped it apart.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, as it does every country.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. The same thing can be said for communism, any extreme form of government when it comes into power, it's gonna fuck shit up.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, because it it divides people. Yeah, you know.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, and that's that's how some of the best stories come about. It's because that's our it's our way of dealing with the horror of real life.
SPEAKER_00:Yes. So we get uh we get Vidal going basically doing inventory, you know, and then uh I guess he gets word that uh he starts looking for the partisans. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, and uh they make themselves known because the stuff is missing.
SPEAKER_00:Yes. So Ophelia, she's you know, she's all dressed up, she decides to go on this quest. Basically, uh she's got these four magic stones that she needs to put in this toad's mouth. Yeah. And so she goes up to the tree, you know, that that cool takes her dress off.
SPEAKER_02:It's like, why don't you just leave it at home? Right. You could have saved yourself a lot of trouble, kid.
SPEAKER_00:For real. And why did yeah, why did she get dressed up so much sooner than the dinner? Like, why did her mom get her all dressed up? Just fucking, I guess try it on and then get into your grubby clothes. Yeah. So you can go on this little quest. But yeah, she doesn't.
SPEAKER_02:Plot armor. Exactly.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. I like the shot though where she goes into the tree and it just kind of shows her silhouette, and you've kind of got all this like dust and shit in the air. It looks kind of magical the way it is. Um like fairy does. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Uh, but she gets right down into the muck, man. Yeah. Trying to get to this fucking toe.
SPEAKER_02:Well, no, she takes the dress off and hangs it on the tree outside.
SPEAKER_00:That's right, yeah. And you can kind of see the wind blowing pieces of it away, so you already know like what's going on, what's gonna happen. Yeah. Yeah. And then meanwhile, Vidal is is trying to find these um restaurants.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, they're hunting, they're hunting for they're hunting for the partisans in the woods.
SPEAKER_00:Yep. Those sons of bitches. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Fucking communists.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, he basically taunts them because he's got a he's got one of their antibiotic vials and he's holding it up and he's like they want this? Yeah, it's your lottery ticket. Come get it, fuckers. Yeah. And uh, and so they leave, and as they leave, you just nobody takes them up on it. No, because they I think they're they're trying to ambush, you know, they don't want to just take them on head on, they want to surprise the warfare. Yep. Make do with what you have and the men you have, and the ones that still have all their limbs. We'll get to that. But yeah, so uh Ophelia finds this giant ass toad, and this is gnarly chilling.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:First thing it does, it just takes its tongue and just fucking gives her a nice big old tongue lash. Yeah. Uh, does this toad have a name, a mythical name, or anything? Or is it just it's just a big ass frog? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so she's kind of taunting it, you know. She's like, Aren't you ashamed? Kind of body shaming it a little bit. He's like, fucking looking at it fuck you, yeah. I'm a fucking toad, man. What more do you want?
SPEAKER_03:I love being fat.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. So she looks down, she sees the bugs that it's been eaten, one of it's crawling on her, and so she gets the idea of kind of putting these four stones around it, and uh, hey, here I got some food for you.
SPEAKER_03:He's like, Oh, great.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and without even thinking, you know, he cooked me the fuck up. Yeah, he eats it, and uh, we get this fucking gnarly shot of it basically belching out its insides, and uh, and that's how she finds this key. Yeah, which will be important for her next challenge. Yeah, so uh Ophelia and her mom. Uh her mom's pretty understandably disappointed in her because she she ruined the dress. The dress got messed up, completely, yeah, covered in mud, tore up, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Because uh it got knocked off of the tree, gust of wind or something, knocked it off. Yep.
SPEAKER_00:Her mother was not happy. No, pretty disappointed. But yeah, so you know, her mom leaves and then the little stick bug shows up, the fairy shows up and uh beckons her down, back down to where Pan, I guess, just hangs out all fucking days.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, he probably can't go out in the sunlight, probably kill him.
SPEAKER_00:Think so? Like a vampire?
SPEAKER_02:Fantasy creature.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, he's a night dweller, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, because he well, yeah, because he's talking about like when the full the full moon rises, then they can fucking have their sacrifice. That's right. Yeah, some real black metal, right? For real. Wow. Yeah, so it looks like something you'd see on a black metal album cover. For real, yeah. Like an emperor album cover or something. Probably something like Varg Vickerness would have been like, oh, it's from nature.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so great. Yeah. I I can see why like Rams became like this kind of satanic. Oh, yeah, like the fucking and the witch, dude. That fucking that black goat. Dude, if I saw a goat that was acting like that, get that thing away from me, man.
SPEAKER_02:I don't know how they got that thing to do that.
SPEAKER_00:I know.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, I've seen goats do strange things like that, but never like literally. Literally dancing like a person.
SPEAKER_00:No. No. I had a friend that had a goat, they would chase her around. You just fucking do this on its on its horns, just push back on it. And it would it would just fucking push you back. Like your legs are actually falling back because this thing's so strong.
SPEAKER_02:Well, you know, and there's a reason why like the Austrians, they they make the their Krampus masks, the Krampus masks with goat horns, and Ibex horns and stuff. It's a very animalistic mask, you know.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, they look cool. I want one of those. That'd be sick.
SPEAKER_02:At least at least make it out of wood. Do it right.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, for real, dude. I'm not gonna get some cheap plastic thing.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, that shit's offensive as fuck to me.
SPEAKER_00:Uh so yeah, Ophelia, she sees the stone, and then um it's got this inscription, or sorry, it's got like a big the big menher thing.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, okay.
SPEAKER_00:And he's like, uh that that's me, and and the girl is you. Seems very like he's you know, again, he's trying to trick her into believing in in this shit. Yeah. And he's just I he just comes out of the dark kind of munching on something. We don't even know what it is, but right away you kind of get the feeling that he's been sincere.
SPEAKER_02:He's he feels like he feels like he's lying to her the whole time. She even says, like, why would I believe you? Yeah, I mean, and if you know anything about like uh fawns and mythology and stuff, they're tricksters. They're wild animals from the fields and shit. They're you know, they're our animal nature basically. Yeah. So animist interesting stuff.
SPEAKER_00:Kind of beckoning beckoning us back.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, you know, and the you know, you see them with the little loot and fucking playing the you know, like they're basically like hypnotizing women to follow them into the woods.
SPEAKER_00:Oh yeah. Dude, speaking of which, you know, over at Wright's Park, it was like dusk, pretty almost nighttime, so it's dark. And you hear some dude was playing a flute, like in the in the park. That's you couldn't see him. I know. But I was like, well, this is like straight out of a fucking movie, but fucking horrible shit. Yeah, it was wild. Some homeless dude playing the flute, I guess. I don't know. Good on he sounded good though.
SPEAKER_02:He sounded pro with his little ocarina and shit.
SPEAKER_00:Right, right. So um does he send her off on another challenge, or does he I can't remember. I don't know.
SPEAKER_02:I think the challenges are over. The last challenge is he has to she has to bring her fucking little brother.
SPEAKER_00:No, because she has to pay the pale man, yeah, which is my favorite. Okay, but we uh we go back to it's it's daytime, we're back in reality, and uh I guess they have to have cards for because they're rationing for bread. Yeah, they're rationing their bread.
SPEAKER_02:But they also have a lottery.
unknown:Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Which is kind of weird. It's like, okay, you know, which is it? Yeah, you have this frivolous thing, uh a lottery, and then you have like oh, we have to have. I guess they they were using the lottery as kind of a patriotic thing.
SPEAKER_00:Probably, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Like they ever would have gotten the money anyway.
SPEAKER_00:Exactly. It's all rigged. Yeah. Yeah, we see the mom, she's not doing great.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, sh I think she's having a complicated pregnancy. Yeah, probably all the stress.
SPEAKER_00:Probably. I'd be stressed the fuck out. Yeah, Ophelia, she's when she's looking in the book this time, it's kind of writing the story before it happens, kind of almost warning her what's going to happen. Yeah, it's a premonition, basically.
SPEAKER_02:It's telling her what's gonna happen.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and in this one, it's pretty disturbing because it shows blood in the shape of kind of fallopian tubes. It looks like a woman's uterus, and uh and sure enough, her mom is uh asking for help and she's bleeding, and uh and uh you know, Ophelia runs out to the captain, says, Come quick, I'll help. And uh, you know, once he finds out what's going on, he he talks to the doctor and says, you know, whatever it costs, just do whatever is necessary to save the baby, essentially. Again, he's not really concerned about his wife, it's more about his son, his heir. So she's Philia's going to pan basically and and saying, My mom is sick, you know, can you help me? And that's when he comes up with the idea of uh giving her the what was the name of the root that the mandrake root mandrake root, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And this thing because it looks like a little person, yeah, and it's fucking it's so creepy because it he she puts it in milk, yep, and it kind of r reanimates it, you know.
SPEAKER_00:It's like it makes these creepy like baby noises and stuff.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, it looks like a construct.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And I guess it's it's supposed to be uh there was there's so the whole mythology behind it where it's Mandrake Root?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah. A lot of like witchcraft and magic used mandrake root back in the day.
SPEAKER_00:And I guess she's supposed to feed it uh a little bit of blood every day. Yeah. And keep it under the bed. And uh and surprisingly, though, in this movie, and it's weird logic, it actually works.
SPEAKER_02:It's funny when uh when Vidal finds it because he's pissed. Oh, yeah. For real. He smells it. It's like it probably smells like ranched milk. And blood.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Oh yeah. So following this though, this is where we get that scene where the doctor has to amputate because one of the one of the gorillas.
SPEAKER_02:Oh yeah, that's why they were getting the antibiotics.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:This dude's got a fucked up leg.
SPEAKER_00:Yep. He's not able to keep it.
SPEAKER_02:Nope. And uh, he does some fiddle triage on this guy's leg.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, dude. Gets out the bone strike. Do they even give him a fucking stick to put in his mouth?
SPEAKER_02:No, they they got him drunk though.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, that's right.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, he's sitting there pulling on some fucking tequila.
SPEAKER_00:That's crazy, dude. I'd be like, just knock me out, man. I don't care what you gotta do, just knock me the fuck out.
SPEAKER_02:Hit that fucking knockout button.
SPEAKER_00:Seriously. That's crazy.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, then uh Ophelia enters the labyrinth and we meet the pale man, which is probably one of the best scenes in this movie.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. Pan gives gives her this piece of chalk and says, You can make your own door.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, you can fucking go anywhere you want. Yeah. And then uh it's funny because the pale man, he's sitting at this massive table, and all the food on it is red. There's red grapes, and there's meat, and you know, it's it's playing into this uh the whole blood mythology and the the symbology of blood.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Well, and the whole thing looks like it's out of uh I think it was actually I forgot who the looks like a Francis Bacon painting. Yes, yeah, or a Hieronymus box. Yeah. And you see all the basically this monster, like these paintings are surrounding it of this monster eating children.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, because he eats kids. Yeah. Because there's a massive pile of fucking shoes.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's really dark. Yeah. I love the look of it. Apparently, uh Del Toro, when he was giving his crew ideas about how to create this monster the way it should look, uh, he said, imagine a fat man who suddenly lost a bunch of weight. And so that's why you have this monster, it's got all these flabs and stuff hanging off of it.
SPEAKER_02:You get loose skin. I have loose skin from like losing a lot of weight. Yeah. And you know, when you when you when you especially when I bend over, yeah, my stomach is really gross. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it feels funny, you know.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Yeah. And I guess originally they had uh the face of it, it was an actual face for the monster, and Del Toro looked at it and he's like, no, no, we're getting rid of all eyes are gonna be on his hands, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, it's a cool effect too, because he only he can see when he puts his hands up on his face. Yes, and it just made it makes his face like spread out.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it makes him look huge. Yes, and the nails are very long and black, yeah, kind of like lashes.
SPEAKER_02:It's a great scene, it's a great makeup.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:So uh that's one of the cool things about Del Toro because he likes practical effects in his movies. I think that's why his movies are so great. It's because the actors can actually like emote and act.
SPEAKER_00:Yes.
SPEAKER_02:As a part You can't get that, maybe with the exception of Andy Circus in Lord of the Rings.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, they used a lot of practical effects in that.
SPEAKER_02:He acted and he was CGI, so yeah.
SPEAKER_00:That was the first of its time to do that.
SPEAKER_02:That kind of does well at all.
SPEAKER_00:No, but it was impressive at the time. Yeah, I remember thinking, wow, I actually feel something watching this CGI character. Yeah, it's hard to do. Yeah, so uh Felia, she sees these three little doors, like little boxes in the wall, and the little uh creatures are kind of like over here, pick this one, pick this up. She's like, No, fuck no, you know I'm gonna pick this one.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, they see she picked it right because the there's like a trap door in the ceiling opens and she can get away. Yeah, because the pale man's coming straight at her.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, exactly.
SPEAKER_02:I think he was the final challenge to see if her heart was in it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, well, and and she finds the she also finds the dagger that the vicious looking fucking dagger, too. For real. You're not getting a pinprick from that, dude. It's probably razor sharp. Yep. Ophelia, in all her infinite wisdom, decides to go and uh eat the food that she was told explicitly by Pan not to eat. Yeah. And all the little fairies are dancing around her and telling her, like, don't eat it, idiot. Yeah. And she does anyway.
SPEAKER_02:It's just two grapes, but it's like Yeah, these are massive grapes.
SPEAKER_00:They look like melons. It's like, you know, he told you not to eat it. Come on. Common sense. Anyway. As soon as she starts eating it, we see the the monster slowly kind of come come alive, you know, kind of moving its hands and puts the little eyeballs and the little holes in its hands so they can see.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, then no, yeah, then she finds the door, the key. She has the key, and she because she's trying to get away from the the pale man.
SPEAKER_00:Well, she doesn't open it, no, she runs towards it. Oh yeah, it's at the end of the hall. And it's a weird scene. I don't know the guy's name. I need to look it up. But uh he was Del Toro was telling him like the scene where he bites the the fairies, the pale man bites the fairies. He he wanted some of that kind of juicy zombie.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, he told yeah, he told him to act like uh a George Mero zombie.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, maybe that's where it comes from. There you go.
SPEAKER_02:Because I watched that supplement last night.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, okay, okay. There it is.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, that's what he was talking about. He was like, I want you to walk like a because he uh because Doug Jones was trying to get okay. Well, what's my physicality? Yeah, how am I supposed to emote? He's like, Yeah, I want you like a George Romero zombie.
SPEAKER_00:There you go. It's like sweet. And he does. He does it like pretty much spot on.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Especially from yeah, like the zombies in Day of the Dead when they're kind of like lurching. Yep, yep. And fucked up.
SPEAKER_00:Yep, yeah. So the yeah, the fairies they get eaten. Two of them. Because of this dumb girl, yeah. Yeah. Just bites their heads off.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. And he goes to he's just mound them. Straight up. Yeah. It's pretty gory.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it is. Yeah. And so Ophelia runs out and she goes.
SPEAKER_02:One of the most visceral scenes in this movie, like from the fantasy point of view.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, yeah. You can feel it in the the sound effects.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, because there's like a lot of like gunshot violence in this movie. Yeah. Because V Vidal, he just like shoots motherfuckers like several times in the head. You know, it's like, fuck, dude.
SPEAKER_00:Yep. He's up. Yep. But yeah, Ophelia, she's running away from this thing. She gets to the end of the hallway. And then uh she uses her chalk to basically create another door in the ceiling. And uh with the help of a chair, she's able to kind of hoist herself up as the monster is kind of aimlessly reaching after her because it can't see without it its eyes and its hands. Yeah. Kind of kind of a clumsy uh design for a monster as far as like practical practicality.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, it's like why don't you just leave the eyes in his fucking head?
SPEAKER_00:It's a schooler.
SPEAKER_03:It's like don't think about it, it's gonna be awesome.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, exactly. So yeah. So the third challenge that Pan is giving Ophelia is uh basically uh he's saying, you know, you you screwed up all these other times. Now this time are you gonna listen to me and do everything I say and don't ask any questions? Yeah. And she's like, okay. And he's like, okay, you need to bring me your baby brother, basically, because the full moon's almost here. And that's all he tells her. And he she's, but you know, why? And he's like, No, don't no questions, just do what I ask. And uh, you know, nobody gets hurt. So yeah, she has to sneak into uh basically uh Vidal's quarters to I I guess she kind of drugs him because she's she's trying to steal her brother without being detected. And uh he uh what happens? Oh, there's an explosion, I think. And she's in the doorway.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, they blow the train off.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And uh partisans they fucking attack a train. Yeah. I think they did that just to fucking cause some chaos.
SPEAKER_00:Yep. Uh like a diversion.
SPEAKER_02:To throw them off, yeah. Because they're planning their attack.
SPEAKER_00:Yep. But uh she's standing in the doorway doorway with her brother in her arms, and that's that's when he sees sees her. Yeah, Vidal, and he's going after her.
SPEAKER_02:Because her mom's already dead.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. Her mom dies in childbirth. She didn't make it. No, you know, we kind of knew it was coming. Yep. It's pretty brutal. So he comes stumbling after her, but he's already kind of drugged out, and so he's having a hard time kind of tracking her. Yep. Stumbling everywhere. And he follows her down into uh Pan's lair, into the labyrinth. And um Pan's like, okay, hurry up, full moon's coming. Give me the child. And he's holding a giant, you know, the giant dagger, basically. And she's like, It's like, come on, give me here quick. She's like, No, you know, I'm not gonna give you the my my brother, you know. He's like, Well, we just need a little bit of human b blood to open the portal. Yeah, just a pinprick. And she's like, nah. And he's like, Are you telling me you're gonna give up your throne to for your brother? She was like, Yes. He's like, very well. And he scurries off and then Oh, he's pissed. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:He's like, You're gonna you're gonna grow old like the humans, and you're gonna die like the humans.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, that was a good scene, actually. Yeah, and she's uh confronted by Vidal in the most brutal way. Vidal just takes his son from her and then just fucking gut shots her, yeah, and lets her bleed out and just walks away. It's cold blood in my life. Dude, the coldest thing I've ever seen.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, it's like really, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:But we we know what this guy's capable of. I mean, if you you even if you hate the kid, really.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. She didn't deserve that. It's like you just shot a little girl in the fucking stomach.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, dude. It's the daughter of your wife. Yeah, you're a punk.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yep.
SPEAKER_02:Fuck off.
SPEAKER_00:But he gets his comeuppins because uh as he leaves, he gets met by the uh all the whole crew of partisans and all right there. Yeah, Mercedes and her brother.
SPEAKER_02:Mercedes and her brother. And um Vidal knows his numbers up, so he gives he gives the baby over to Mercedes and he's like, tell my son the exact time his father died, and she's like, You he won't even know your name. Yeah. He's fucking he gives him in the face. Yeah, he gives him a fucking Mo Green special right in the fucking face, dude.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. I love the little details, like you get a little bit of blood pooling in his eye before he fucking goes down.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, and if you've ever seen The Godfather, you know what a Mowgreen special is. Yep. Or the Sopranos. Yeah. Cause because Big Pussy Bop and Sarrow, he talked, he gave him a Mogreen special.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, man. In the face. Yeah. Right below the eye. Yep. Yeah, and so um we go back to Ophelia. She's bleeding out, she's bleeding out, but her Mercedes finds her. Her blood is uh dripping down into this little pool that they got, the little labyrinth.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, the same thing is in uh it's in um Hellboy. Yeah, that it it looks like a mandala.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_02:I think it's cool. Yeah, and it's and that's when it fills up with blood in Hellboy when they're then when they're resurrecting, yeah. Uh resputing.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, okay. So yeah, basically Ophelia, you hear you hear Pan say, Arise, my daughter. Or no, no, it's the king. Yeah, it's her father. Arise.
SPEAKER_02:I think she's basically going to heaven.
SPEAKER_00:You know, it's like that's what it feels like. Yeah, it's like, yeah, okay. Suddenly she's in these bright, bright, bright clothes, you know, brand new getups.
SPEAKER_02:And it's up, and it's like a red jacket, it's almost like fucking little red riding hood.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, and her shoes are like these ruby slippers almost. Yeah, it's like okay. Something out of Oz. Yeah, we get it. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:You're just reveling in the fucking fairy tale imagery. For real. Ball. There's nothing wrong in it. Yeah, no, it's a cool scene. I like the way it looks. And then uh apparently her real mother, she looks like a fucking elf. Yeah. She got the elf ears and like fucking Galadriel and shit.
SPEAKER_00:Yep. Her and her father sitting there on these giant thrones. Yeah, they're like pillars.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, and the fawn is like, Welcome back, Majesty.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it turns out the whole thing was just a one big test to see if you would do the right thing, you know, and you did. You passed the test.
SPEAKER_02:Exactly. And that, you know, and that that's the how the narrative of this movie is so weird because it could have ended like how it ended with in the normal world, and it would have been awesome too.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. I like the emotional dissonance.
SPEAKER_02:There's too much, there's two, yeah. There to me, there was too much. It's two different movies.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. I like this feeling. I like a lot of movies that end this way, they're kind of ambiguous because it's like it's happy, sad. It's happy because you know at least she's dying with some sort of peace. And it's sad because she had to pass away like that. Yeah. In my mind. But uh Ophelia, she uh she finds, or no, sorry, Mercedes finds Ophelia and she's kind of weeping over, and she does the she hums the melody that she hummed before because it was her mom's uh lullaby. Actually, fun fact, a weird thing. That melody, uh Del Toro wrote that melody, and there's something about it that's so simple but so affecting. I still hum that in my head to this day. It like it it finds me sometimes. Really? It's a good one. I like it. I'll put it in the intro. But yeah, that's it. She uh she dies a princess in her little land, and then uh we see the the opening of the orchid. Basically, uh, I think Japan is saying if those who know where to look can find evidence of her in nature.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, yeah, like even now. Yeah. It was made in uh 2006, it's a fantasy war film. Uh starred Ivana Baquero as Ophelia, Doug Jones as the pale man and Fawn. He played a dual role in this movie. Uh Ariadna Gill as Carmen, Sergey Lopez as Vidal, Maribel Verdue as Mercedes, and Alex Angulo as the Doctor. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And Roger Casamejor as Pedro, her brother. Nice as Mercedes's brother.
SPEAKER_00:Not a big cast, but a good one.
SPEAKER_02:No, I mean that there's there's a lot of people that you wouldn't know who they are anyway. Yeah. Yeah, uh Ivana Barquero, she she's gone on to work on a lot of other stuff. Doug Jones, of course, he's worked on every Del Toro movie.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. One of the greatest, I think, creature actors out there.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Him and uh Andy Circus, like physical actors.
SPEAKER_00:Yep. Yeah, dude. Uh, I guess it was all the entire script was written in Spanish. Uh
SPEAKER_02:Doug Jones had to fucking learn Spanish. He didn't have to learn it because they were like, Oh, we'll just dub it later. But he's like, No, that I want it to look right. I think that'll be fair to my my fellow actors that are Spanish. Yeah. He commits. He learned it.
SPEAKER_00:Yep. Yeah, good for him too.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, Spanish is it's one of the easier languages to learn because Spanish is basically what all our language, like the romance languages, are based off of. Yeah. Because of the Romans.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. But still, it's another language. Yeah. And on top of all the other things that that poor guy has to go through.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. That's just uh that just shows his uh his acting chops.
SPEAKER_00:Yes. Yes. Exactly.
SPEAKER_02:We're doing Hellhouse next week. Heh heh, I ruined it. Dick. Yeah, it's gonna be our Christmas extravaganza, folks, and we want you all to tune in. We're gonna have some glue vine. We're gonna talk about scary haunted houses.
SPEAKER_00:Wait, I explain what glue vine is.
SPEAKER_02:Glue vine is a traditional German mold wine that is popular around the holidays.
SPEAKER_00:What is it fermented?
SPEAKER_02:What it's just it's red wine, but it's added cloves and cinnamon. It's a very festive tasting.
SPEAKER_00:And you drink it hot? Yeah, well, warm. Warm.
SPEAKER_02:It's mold wine, basically.
SPEAKER_00:Nice. Probably makes the place smell good. Yeah. Nice.
SPEAKER_02:It's a very pleasant taste.
SPEAKER_00:Sounds good.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. It's gonna be fun. We're gonna talk about ghost stories. We're gonna talk about the the Everest of Haunted House. Besides the Shining, I think Hell House is uh And the Changeling. Yeah, I think uh Changeling can't hold a candle to fucking.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, so then you're so in those three, name them in order. Which ones you think are from top to bottom are best?
SPEAKER_02:The Shining.
SPEAKER_00:Okay. Hell House. And then the Changeling. Okay.
SPEAKER_02:With Amniville as like an honorable honorable. Yeah, because Amniville, that was a real story.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Although have you watched it recently?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I watched it the other night. Oh, did you? Yeah. Well no shit. It doesn't age very well.
SPEAKER_00:Nah. Some of the scenes are kind of but it's alright. Alright. That and ends the let me just close it out without stumbling over my fucking words for once. I would help. That ends this episode of the Dark Territory podcast. Like and subscribe.
SPEAKER_02:Thanks for putting up with us.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, thanks for putting up with us. Thanks for uh, you know, this is always a work in progress, so it is what it is. We'll see you next week.