Culture Beats
The Culture Beats podcast features conversations about pop culture and many other aspects of life. The show is hosted by Chris Bournea, director of the acclaimed "Lady Wrestler" documentary who is also an author and journalist.
Culture Beats
How To Build A Journalism Career With Kingsley H. Smith
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Veteran broadcaster Kingsley H. Smith shares tips on how to build a career in journalism, based on his more than 40 years in the industry. We also discuss the importance of preserving Black history.
For more information about Kingsley and his memoir, “Powerhouse Radio,” and his book, “People in Black History: Famous African Americans,” visit https://kingsleyhsmith.com/
You can reach me at chrisbournea@gmail.com
Hello and welcome to the Culture Beats Podcast. I'm your host, Chris Bournet, and my guest today is Kingsley H. Smith, veteran broadcaster, author of the books Powerhouse Radio and People in Black History. Kingsley, how are you?
SPEAKER_00I am doing great, Chris. It's a pleasure to be with you today.
SPEAKER_01It's great to have you on. And we've previously spoken because you were kind enough to interview me about the documentary I made, Lady Wrestler. So it's it's great to speak with you again.
SPEAKER_00You too. You too.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So uh let's first start with Powerhouse Radio. Tell me, how did you get into broadcasting? Was it something that interested you when you were growing up? And first, where did you grow up? And and kind of tell me a little bit about your yourself and uh your origin story story, so to speak.
SPEAKER_00I was born and raised in New York City.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_00And I became interested in radio primarily because I listened to radio all the time as I was a young person. Now, my first influences, of course, were what my mother used to listen to. And she used to listen to the station that broadcast primarily big band, old school, Frank Sinatra, Ella Fitzgerald, that type of music. But then as things changed, as I became, let's say, around the age of eight, nine, ten, radio changed and more contemporary music became popular. So I listened to the radio. I noticed that, except for the black stations in the New York City area, on the white stations, there were not that many black broadcasters. So that was interesting to me. And so I thought maybe this might be a potential career. Some of my kids, some kids in my neighborhood, used to always tease me about my speaking voice. Well, this is the way folks in my family talked. I mean, we all went to the same school. We were all kind of taught that general American English. So I don't know why they were teasing me about it. But that's something that always stood in the back of my mind. I guess it was a subtle form of bullying, but that's the way uh preteens are. So moving forward, by the time I got to high school, when I graduated from high school, I got a job as a mail clerk for the American Broadcasting Company. And the American Broadcasting Company was located in Midtown Manhattan in New York City, and it was a half a block away from my high school. So I got a job in the mailroom. I worked during the summer, three months, doing those duties, and during my off time while I was working or lunch periods, I would go to the broadcast radio studios and watch some of the performers perform doing their shows. I thought that was something that again was in the back of my mind. Then the next step was going to New York University and becoming a part of the college radio station, WNYU AMNFM. While I was there, I became very proficient in audio editing. I was originally a film major at NYU, but I switched after uh, well, let me back up. I was I was a math major, don't ask me why, but then I then I switched to film uh because they didn't really have a uh broadcast curriculum tract that you could you could follow. So I started as an amateur because of good connections at the school radio station. I was able to get a job as a broadcast engineer at the public radio station WRVR, which was owned by the Riverside Church in New York, was able to work there for a period of time. Then after that, it was over to WLIB and WBLS in New York as a board engineer. After that, I went to upstate New York, worked for a small town radio station population of about 40,000. Then the next part of the journey on to Atlantic City, still becoming an on-air performer, a music director, program director, eight years there, then off to Philadelphia, 16 years there, and then down to Washington, DC, working for the NPR network. So it's four decades plus of a lot of good experiences. And because of the hard problems that W USS had, which was the first black-owned radio station in New Jersey, because of the ups and downs of that experience, I said it's important that that story get told in its entirety. I had seen some things online about 2020, 2021, and I noticed that the information that they had put out, the person that wrote this, who worked at this particular station, WUSS, after I left, the story wasn't really complete. So I said, let me go back and let me write that story. And then I said, I might as well write the whole story of how I got into broadcasting because I think there's some teachable moments, especially for people that are getting into podcasting now. There are some central themes that follow in terms of how you can progress, how you can take some chances, and how you can grow and learn from some of the mistakes that you've made. So that's pretty much the broadcasting summation. And I detail this all in the book Powerhouse Radio, Rough Roads, Radiance, and Rebirth, my true AMFM and satellite streaming experiences. That's what the book is all about.
SPEAKER_01And I love that title, and our backgrounds are pretty similar because I actually took uh here in Columbus, Ohio, where I grew up, they have um a career center system where you can uh while you're in high school, you can kind of learn a trade. So I went to uh Ford Hayes Career Center, which was founded by a black man, Jack Gibbs, and took radio and television. I didn't really have um an aspiration to go into broadcasting. People just always told me you have a broadcaster's voice, and I actually went to learn filmmaking skills. So we we have that uh in common as well. And then my my background is in working at uh black newspapers. That's how I got into journalism. So our kind of our path to kind of uh get into media was was similar.
SPEAKER_00It's interesting that I learned film editing first, right? I never thought that I would be using film editing again, but uh what goes around comes around, and now because of video, which is dominant across across social media and and all different elements, I use that skill a lot more than I thought that I would be using it when I originally started learning it.
SPEAKER_01Right, and it's I would assume the same print because I because I would assume you learned like with with physical like print film 16 millimeter. Yeah, yeah. So I I would assume it's actually way easier with non-linear non non-linear digital editing, but you're applying the same principles, I would assume.
SPEAKER_00Oh, of course. Yeah, but when you use some of those same skills of old school film editing with old school audio editing, which was taking magnetic tape and splicing it with a razor blade, yeah. A lot of the embellishments and the special effects that are easy to do with digital, you have to learn how to do it with tape.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_00Audio tape. And uh, I'll give you one example. Uh, for the love of money by the OJs, where there's backward echoes. So the echo comes in before you actually hear the speaking. You can do that with old school analog audio tape, but it's very involved to do it because you need to record in a couple of different loops, maybe use a couple of different machines, play the tape backwards. And I won't I won't get into the all the minutiae the details, but it can be done. But in digital uh software, this stuff, it just you really don't know how you really don't need to know a lot of the technicalities, but it's it's quite easy to do.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you just press a button rather than spending hours, like you said, cutting and splicing and making sure your cuts are are exact or you're gonna ruin the work print or work ruin the tape you're working with.
SPEAKER_00Right, right.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I think I think I think uh I messed up a little bit the title of the memoir.
SPEAKER_01Oh, sure.
SPEAKER_00So it's Powerhouse Radio, Rough Roads Radiance and Rebirth, my true AM, FM, satellite, and audio streaming survival story. That's the exact title. So I worked in all elements, AMFM radio. I had an online program on the Live 365 service. I did that for 15 years. And satellite radio. When I was hired by NPR in Washington, DC to be one of the program directors for their new service on Sirius Satellite Radio. So Sirius on Sirius did not go on the air until uh I think uh Valentine's Day of 2002. So they were beaten by XM. They went on the air in 2001, and then Sirius went on the air 2002. So I actually had two years down at NPR to prepare, do all the groundwork before we launched.
SPEAKER_01Right, right. Throughout your career, do you have any uh any moments that stand out, or maybe an interview with someone that really uh made an impact on you? Or what are some of the highlights, would you say, of your career?
SPEAKER_00I would say my two, well, there were three favorite in interviews. One that I lost, which was uh with uh the flute player Bobby Humphrey. For some reason, I guess the the patch chords weren't put in correctly by the engineers. Maybe I didn't double check, but I don't have that one. But the the other two that stand out for me are Art Blakey, who's a drummer, a group called the Jazz Messengers, and his interview is probably one of my favorites. And Jimmy Castor was another one with the Jimmy Caster bunch. Unfortunately, Jimmy's no longer with us, neither is Art Blakey. And then the third one, I guess I'll mention, is uh Jerry Butler, the Iceman. And his interview was very good. He was actually appearing with Barry White and somebody else in Philadelphia. And that's how I got the opportunity when I was working at a station in Camden, New Jersey, which is right across the river from Philadelphia, was able to get his interview. And uh they they all stand out. Jimmy Castor was very interesting. I there was an article in the local newspaper in Atlantic City. I was working at that time there, and the article basically stated, Jimmy says, Well, I don't consider myself a superstar. So we started talking about what it means to be a superstar, especially as it relates to the black community. So he said, Well, yeah, I'm known in the black community, but I'm not a super superstar. When I release my records, they're not going to go gold as quickly as some of the white performers. And he started to talk about some of the limitations of growing and being super popular, like some of the general market groups, because of the uh some of the problems that we have in terms of uh total audience acceptance. So that was a very that was a very good interview. So I would say Jimmy Castor and Jerry Butler, they were they were great, great interviews. I did get the opportunity to interview James Brown's daughter, and that that's a recent one. That was in the last 10 to 15 years. And uh that was that was a good interview too, because uh James Brown owned a bunch of radio stations once upon a time. So his daughter uh became a program director of one of the stations. And so that was uh that was a good conversation that I had with her.
SPEAKER_01Did she kind of uh shed light on anything you hadn't known before about The Godfather of Soul or Yes, they he set up a foundation, the James Brown.
SPEAKER_00I don't remember the exact title, but it was basically uh a vehicle for James Brown to support the community, a lot of activities around holidays, food donations, and a scholarship fund that was set up for kids who wanted to pursue music. So that was that was that was a very good, very good conversation. As a matter of fact, when I talked to her, it was a year before Chadwick Bozeman starred as James Brown in the movie. So I actually got a scoop about a year before that movie was released because she was telling me that Mick Jagger was one of the uh funders of of the movie. So that that was that was a very that was a very interesting uh conversation that we did.
SPEAKER_01I didn't know that about Mick Jagger helping to fund the uh biopic. I think it was called Get On Up.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and I just recently saw the Billy Preston documentary, which is outstanding. I I highly recommend it to everybody. And it turns out the the producer was there the night I went to the filming, uh the showing, I should say, the screening was at the Barnes Foundation in Philadelphia. And the producer said that Jeffrey Laurie, who is one of the owners, he is the owner of the NFL's Philadelphia Eagles, he, one of his companies, funded the Billy Preston documentary that I didn't know. So you get out there and you rub elbows with people and you find out a lot sometimes.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, for sure. Over the course of your career, was there a particular market? Because you also worked in DC, right? In Philadelphia?
SPEAKER_00Yes.
SPEAKER_01Was there a particular market or a particular format like AMFM or streaming that you uh you preferred or found the most uh freedom in?
SPEAKER_00Or I figured I'd be professional enough to try to adapt to them all, despite my preferences for music. But I have to say I gravitate more towards high-energy radio, and I like to be able to mix all kinds of genres and formats based upon my own personal knowledge and experience. Now, a lot of times you go into a radio station, you're handed a format to follow, you're handed the music to play, so you have to adapt and you have to do it to the best of your ability. But I enjoyed jazz when I worked at WRVR. I had mentioned that I started there as an engineer, but eventually they gave me opportunities to do newscasts primarily on the weekend, and then overnight on the weekend, they said you can do a jazz show. And that's what I did. That was good. Black radio is fun because you get your you're you're touching and you're reaching out and touching the community. That that was good, but I enjoyed top 40 and high energy radio too. And I would say out of all the stations I work for in Philadelphia, I work for four different stations, three of them were FM music stations. I probably had the most fun working at the I guess you would call it now, uh, Top 40, Contemporary Station, playing the hits of the day, all the hits. I enjoyed that a lot. But I would say, as I looked down the road, looked at the growth of the industry, the decentralization of ownership, it was clear to me that I wanted to be in management. So from my first full-time job, I became the program director there. The next station I went to was the program director there. The program director, it's kind of the day-to-day decision maker working underneath the auspices of the general manager. Then I went to Philadelphia, became the program director of the uh NPR station there, which is WHYY FM. I was there, as I mentioned, 16 years, and then I was hired away from Philly to go to Washington, D.C. to go to the network NPR, and I was one of the program directors there. So management was always important to me because let's face it, if you are on the team of the decision makers, that's one of the most important functions that you can have. And that's what I targeted during my broadcasting career. Four decades plus.
SPEAKER_01Yes, yes. Such a great career. And I like you said, I think it's important to have African Americans and women and as much diversity in the decision-making positions as possible, so that you know, the the become a cliche, but it's true representation is important.
SPEAKER_00One of the things that I wanted to do, especially at the second station I worked, the FM station that I worked for in Atlantic City, was to make sure that the on-air staff was diverse, not just me, but other black announcers, female announcers, all colors. That's the way I did it. And uh sometimes I got criticized for it because that was a while back. Now we're talking 70s, 80s, so but you have to do what you believe in. And I always was suspicious, especially at some of the largest stations in the country, why there were not more black announcers. And I tell a story in the powerhouse radio book about how I was picked as the cons one of the consultants who was hired by the black ownership in Atlantic City, how this particular person, he was black and he was a big star all across the country, having worked in Los Angeles, New York, Detroit. I tell the whole story about how he was soliciting for on-air edition tapes. I sent him an on-air edition tape. He liked the tape. And that was that was really my big break.
SPEAKER_01Wonderful, wonderful. And uh in the in your book description for Powerhouse Radio, you talk about how community radio has seen better days. Can you kind of elaborate on that?
SPEAKER_00Once upon a time, you were pretty much a sounding board for the interest of the community, whether it was just, let's say, a community announcement about a social function that was happening at a church. It could be something as simple as a lost dog, maybe it's a pancake breakfast, but the community was very close to you. They would write you letters. This is predates predates email, yeah, predates uh text messages. That's right. So there was a certain real strong connection with the community. Now, sometimes the community wasn't always backing you financially the way we all wanted to, but that was just a reflection of hard economic times because we don't get as many of the job opportunities for higher salaries as some other people do. So that's why it's a real hard road for many of the black-owned stations. Now, what happened to increase minority ownership? The FCC in the 70s said we're going to introduce something called a distress sale. A distress sale was created primarily to allow white-owned stations to sell to a minority ownership, which was defined as at least 50% ownership at a reduced price. So that helped in the 70s, but unfortunately, as the 80s and the 90s came on, the FCC loosened regulations. So you could now own, maybe originally you could only own five stations in a market. Then it might have had increased to 10 stations in a large market, and then 15 stations plus the newspapers. So I detail a lot of that in the book, too. So that's pretty much what I meant by community based, because the problem now is there are only three or four media groups that own all the radio stations. So if you're owning three, five hundred radio stations, there's really not a close community connection. It's corporate-based. There's not that local connection with the uh people that are listening. It's funny, another quick story. I was in Atlantic City about a year ago, and the station that I used to work for, it's now an iHeartMedia station. And the announcer that was on, the midday announcer, it's pre-recorded. I believe this particular person, I'm not even going to name the gender, but they're in Philadelphia recording the voice tracks, which are dropped in locally. And she was mispronouncing the name that one of the local towns. And I'm saying, this is a year after they bought this station. Why isn't somebody listening and letting this person know what's going on? But it's a comedy of errors.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. I feel the same about community newspapers, where especially black newspapers, where I got my start. It's unfortunately a sad state of affairs. Like you said, it's not as connected with the community and the deregulation with these huge conglomerates owning so many chains of things. You would think if you're a huge conglomerate, you have more resources, but unfortunately, it seems like a race to the bottom to try to operate on as little money, spend as little money and make as much money as you can, seems to be the mindset.
SPEAKER_00You said it. You said it. So, Chris, I don't know how much time you have, but I'd like to say a little bit about uh the Black History Book.
SPEAKER_01Yes, yes. I wanted to ask you about that, sure.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So when I graduated from high school, my last semester, I took all the lectives because I had already amassed all the credits to graduate. So the last, the final semester, I just whatever I wanted to take. One subject that I took, one course that was offered, it was called Asian African History. I said, Well, this is great. I want to learn more about black history. One of the books in the course was by Lerone Bennett Jr. Now, Lerone Bennett Jr. was the first senior editor of Ebony magazine, and Ebony was owned by John H. Johnson. And in this book, the Black History book that I wrote, I do, of course, have a section about John H. Johnson. So let me backtrack a little bit. Lerone Bennett Jr.'s book was called Before the Mayflower, A History of the Negro in America, 1619 to 1964. And that that did it for me. From that point, I guess I was 17 years old, I was 100% interested in learning more about Black history. So as the 80s ended, I had already graduated from Rutgers University. I said, let me start a company that's going to be software-based, developing software applications. So I did develop a software application that took five years to finish, started in 1993, finished in 1998, and it was called Power Encyclopedia, the African-American Multimedia Collection. I wouldn't use that title again for a few different reasons, but the multimedia, I don't like jargon-based words that people don't really understand. So I finished that and it wasn't very successful. Because of course it was a commercial product, but times change. When the online download media convenience started coming on in the 2000s, it said, let me take some of this information that I've already written about and let me create some smaller applications that people can download from whether from either the app store for iOS or from Google Play. And so that's what I did with all the material that was put in this original CD software in Power Encyclopedia. Now the other thing I did, I said, well, let me coalesce this into a book. So in 2011, I took basically the text material and I put it in a book. The book was called and is still called uh People in Black History, Famous African Americans, written in 2011. I used my middle name, which is a pen name, Hugh Smith. And that was out on Amazon. But unfortunately, we have new Black history makers. We learn so much from people's experiences. And let's face it, people started to learn about what came before them from storytellers. Handwritten history then became mechanical when the printing press was created. And then it goes, of course, on to typewriters and digital and so forth. So I said I need to rewrite this book. So in 2025, I took eight months to really rewrite everything from uh the beginning to end, went to the library, got some of the research librarians to help me identify more primary sources that I could use for the information. And also we would dive into some of the databases that you can only get if you have a subscription and you're a librarian. So I couldn't just jump on to online and get this info. And it's also it's it's important to point out that when I wrote the original book, there was no online. As I said, I wrote from well, there was a little bit, but between 93 and 98, those five years. If you really wanted to do the research, you had to seek out the primary sources and reinterpret then the original manuscripts and then craft it in your own unique way when you've done additional research on top of it. So in January of this year, 2020, the revised version, it's really a second edition, but I couldn't call it that with the paperback. So it is people in black history, famous African Americans. As a matter of fact, I have it right here. If you don't mind, I'll hold it up. You might get a light show from uh all the lights that are that are in front of me. So it has 29 chapters uh from A to Z. And I try to include a lot of newer folks in there, people like Simone Biles, uh the gymnast, or Amanda Gorman, the poet. Of course, you're gonna find all the traditional people, W.E.B. Du Bois, I mentioned John H. Johnson, um uh Carter G. Woodson and others. So I tried to pack a lot of information in, but I didn't want it to be obtuse, I didn't want it to be pedantic, I didn't want it to be super scholarly as if I was trying to do uh an academic presentation. No, this is for I would say high school through adult, and it's written in very conversational language, generally pretty much the way I speak. I mean, I wasn't afraid to use uh one or two of those five dollar words. It's funny. One of my when when I wrote the uh the radio book, uh one of my friends who read the book, he says, Yeah, I I love the book, but there was one word I word word I didn't know, and I said, uh what what was the word? He says, ubiquitous. I said, Well, did you try to look it? Did you try to look it up? So I just bring that story up to say it's easy reading. It's easy reading. I I I wrote it in a manner that is easily understandable. There's a full index in the back of the book. You can look people up by their last name. And it is uh something that I think students, parents, teachers, a lot of folks could could really enjoy. Now, as far as the radio book goes, you love the pictures. I've got a ton of pictures from uh the entire career in there for you to experience.
SPEAKER_01Right, right. Yeah, so both the books sound like they're um they're both entertaining but also educational. Yeah, because you you design you by design made them um accessible for the average reader.
SPEAKER_00And they're both they're both history books. The the Powerhouse Radio book has won a couple of awards. Uh, as a matter of fact, in 2025, it won a reader's favorite award as the best uh non-fiction book in the music entertainment category. So it won a gold award, and then they also had three other awards, uh, silver, bronze, and uh just a uh general acknowledgement. And so the newest book is People in Black History, uh famous African Americans. So we'll be building that book this year. I already have a couple of commitments to do a couple of um shows, a couple of book fairs. I know I'm gonna try to do the uh National Black Book Fair, which is down in uh Houston. I haven't been to Houston in a long time. It gets too hot and humid down there, but I'm going. It's it's it's gonna be in October. So hopefully things will calm down by that time.
SPEAKER_01And uh, do you do speaking engagements as well? I would I would think it would uh it would be a natural uh subject to speak at high schools, colleges, even elementary schools.
SPEAKER_00I haven't done that many yet, but now that I have a second book, it's easier when you have two books or three books, and now that I have the second book, I think it'll be easier to pursue some of those. But the the interesting thing is I I've I've got to balance a lot of time because these app stores that I work with for. I mean, you're really working for them. I mean, they give you a small royalty, but you really have to update the applications every year when they introduce a new operating system. So it's it's it's when I was writing the first book, I fell a little bit behind because I'm putting so much attention into getting this book out that uh last year it was catch-up time for me. So I'm pretty much fully caught up now. So I'll be trying to do more of those speaking engagements. I've done uh book signing, those kind of things, but as far as speaking engagements, not as many as I probably should, since I'm really I'm not really shy behind the microphone. So should do more of that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. So I just had a couple more questions um for you. So, number one, I was just wondering as a as a someone who uh was a was and is a professional in broadcasting, what do you feel about the change that social media and the internet have brought where basically anyone can be a broadcaster? Anyone could have a YouTube channel, a podcast, make videos on Instagram or TikTok. I mean, on the one hand, it's sort of democratized the industry or the field. On the other hand, someone doesn't have to have training like you and experience like you have. They can go on you go on their platform and spread misinformation. What is your opinion about that?
SPEAKER_00Broadcasting used to be uh apprentice-based. And now uh the apprenticeship has been replaced with interns. But let me directly answer your question. It's good to be able to jump behind the microphone and jump behind the video camera, do your thing without any guidance. But where you can take advantage of the technology is if you have a mentor or somebody that can give you more guidance as to what to do correctly and what to shy away from. And that's what a lot of these uh podcasters and YouTubers lack. I mean, I'm sure you, Chris, and anybody watching or listening has had the experience where you've jumped on YouTube and somebody has promised to give you some information or to entertain you. And two minutes have gone by and they're still telling you what's come what they're gonna give you. Three minutes, four minutes, you haven't got to the point. So it is a craft to know how to get right to the point. Yes, get something that's gonna capture the attention very quickly, and then deliver what you promised. Now, I've been doing YouTube videos probably since 2009-ish. Um, I never stopped doing them. Let's face it, the original stuff that I did is not as good as what I can do in 2026. And I've been certified twice for the platform that I use. You have to go through a long exam and you have to be very familiar with the software to be able to get certified. So I had been certified the last uh four years. So yes, it's easy for anybody to jump on and pretend to be a pro. A lot of times, though, people will look at other videos and copy all the mistakes. Yes, you don't want to copy the mistakes, you want to copy the folks that are really doing a really good job at it. And it's not all about the likes and the shares and the comments. Sometimes you have to ignore that stuff and just have a game plan. Now, I had um probably bought about three different how to to how to do YouTube video books. I mean, they're they're good, but really you have to just kind of jump in there and and do it, and then and then you'll you'll learn. So it is hard to separate the wannabes and the players from the people that are really doing a good job. So you have to kind of find some models that you want to uh take their advantage, uh, not take their advantage, but take their example of what they've been doing and try to copy the the good examples as opposed to the bad examples.
SPEAKER_01Exactly. Yeah. And you and you sort of uh touched on this already, but I just kind of wanted to um kind of get a more in-depth answer. What would you what would your advice be to students who are majoring in journalism or communications now? They're graduating into an industry that is constantly changing and consolidating and being deregulated, and you know, a job that exists today, next year when they graduate, may not exist. So, what would your advice be that those students can follow?
SPEAKER_00I would say if you're interested in being a podcaster, if you're interested in getting into video, volunteer. If you can't get an internship, if you can't get hired, volunteer. I used to do website design and I used to teach website design at computer school in the 1990s. And before I could get paid designing websites, I volunteered and I volunteered. I did the first website for the Southeast Pennsylvania Red Cross website. I had um gone to some meetings with a local group, and there was a need for somebody to do their website. I said, I can I can do it, and I did, and that led to the first paying job. So don't be afraid if you're involved in a community group, if you're involved at your school, if you're involved at your church, that's a good way to get involved and to make opportunities for yourself. It might be you find somebody who's willing to mentor you, or you know somebody in the field that you want to work for, who you respect, then see what you can do to get them to help you. Sometimes it's just a helping hand, it's one person that opens the light, opens the opens your eyes, and uh you can move forward to do something positive and beneficial for everyone.
SPEAKER_01Excellent advice. Well, Kingsley, it's just been great speaking with you. I look forward to reading Powerhouse Radio and people in Black History. And if people want to get in touch with you, what's the best way to do that?
SPEAKER_00The best way, Chris, is to go to my website, kingsleyhsmith.com, K-I-N-G-S-L-E-Y-Hsmith.com. And it has all the information of the both books. It's got a section where you can watch some videos. Uh, it has links to a couple of my different blogs. So it's a it's an interesting website, and I hope that you take a look at it. And the links for the books go to different stores where all the books are available.
SPEAKER_01Excellent. Well, Kingsley, thanks again, and let's let's keep in touch.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely, Chris. Thank you very much. And it was a pleasure to be here, and thank you for the opportunity to talk.
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