What's Fueling the Rise of Indie Horror?

The blockbuster success of the movies “Obsession” and “Backrooms” has sparked a conversation about why indie horror movies are beginning to dominate the industry. Filmmaker Joseph Mbah, director of the new supernatural thriller “Whispers Bind,” weighs in on this growing phenomenon. 

Connect with Joseph at @joseph_mbah 

You can reach me at chrisbournea@gmail.com 

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Down to when I'm like trying to make my first movie, and I'm like, Mom, like we need to get an investor. And she took her like last $1,200 to pay this guy who claimed that he help us like bridge the gap and get investors. Total scam. And this guy scammed her out of her last money, and he broke my heart. I'm like, oh my God. Like I wanted to. Anyway, stopping there.

SPEAKER_00 0:27

Hello, and welcome to the Culture Beats podcast. I'm your host, Chris Bournet, and my guest is Joseph Mba, filmmaker and director of the new movie Whispers Bind. Joseph, how are you? I'm good. How are you? Good, good. So tell me, tell me about Whispers Bind and uh give the listeners and the viewers a little uh glimpse of uh what they're gonna be seeing.

SPEAKER_02 0:52

So Whispers Bind is we're calling it a psychological horror because uh it deals more with your inner voice. Like the idea for the film came from a conversation I was having with my family about your inner voice and what that means to a person, right? So your inner voice is essentially you and you know yourself more than anyone else knows you, right? So if you take it, if you take a regular horror movie, you have a villain, and the villain is an outside entity trying to do you harm. But what if the harm is coming from within? Wow. So that was so that's where the idea came from. And then uh what ended up happening is we made a short film of this idea in 2020, and uh it it just it was about this entity who latched on to this lady and just trying to drive her to the point where she ultimately commits, you know, takes her own lives. And um, and we did the short film, I posted it on YouTube and uh compared to all the videos I've had on YouTube, like I would have had like a hundred views, 50 views here and there, 300 views max. This particular short film got like 6,000 views. So I was blown away by it, right? So I was like, wow, this is amazing. So to me, I was like, okay, that's great. Uh success, that was wonderful, you know. Then fast forward like two years later, uh, or so me and my wife were thinking about what the next film we're gonna make is, and we had a friend who just had a baby who talked to us about dealing with postpartum, and we it just kind of hit us at the same time. We're like, what if we paired this idea of your inner voice and that the that entity with a person who's either pregnant or going through postpartum? Like, what kind of story could we tell? And that kind of blossomed from there. So where Spurs Bind ended up becoming a story about a woman who is used to losing people in her life, like she feels like every time she gets close to someone, she loses them. Either they die, they leave her, some shape or form. And so she's built up a wall, she don't want people to get too close to her, and um then the entity sees this as an opportunity. It's like, okay, you're a perfect candidate, I'm gonna torture you. Throughout the story, she she gets pregnant, she decides she wants the baby, she wants you know love in her life, and she wants to fight this entity, and then you know the whole story kind of unfolds from there, and it's the back and forth. Yeah, and that's that's what Whisper's Bind is.

SPEAKER_00 3:20

Was it uh challenging at all, shooting it? Because uh it's it's one thing if you have an external villain who you can actually you know show on screen, but showing, you know, conveying the you know villain within, so to speak, was that a challenge at all?

SPEAKER_02 3:37

Um no, so it wasn't a challenge because we we opted to have a physical person play the entity, right? So so even though the the kernel of the idea started from what is your inner voice, and even like we played around with the idea of like actually having it be like two like the main character and herself, right? Um, we ultimately decided not to do that because part of being an independent filmmaker under low budget is just being aware of what you can do effectively, yeah. And for us, that what that would have been a stretch, and that that would have provided presented more risk of the story not working versus it playing to the strength. So we opted to have an actress play the entity, but the way that we then chose to do like the back and forth with the with the entities, like sometimes you don't know which what's in her mind, sometimes you don't know what's physical, and sometimes the entity becomes physical, and oh my god, it actually does hurt a person to kill a person, you know. So that's the way we decided to go with with the film.

SPEAKER_00 4:44

Yeah, yeah. And uh horror is such a popular genre. Were there any, you know, growing up or in recent years, have there been any horror movies that kind of influenced you as a as a filmmaker?

SPEAKER_02 4:56

Uh I think horror films have been influential to me, even without me knowing that they were horror films. Like I honestly, like I would call Terminator a horror film. Yeah, yeah, right? Like I would put it, I will put it right up there because it's like it's frightening. Um horror has been, and then also wow, and thanks for asking this. Uh, this is the first time we asked this. So I'm Nigerian, and a lot of the stories that in our Nigerian films that it has to do with our culture a lot, and our culture is a very kind of it's very spiritual. So there's a lot of folk tale and like spirits and demons and that that's in our films. So a majority of what I grew up consuming is essentially horror films, but to me, that was just like life, you know? Like someone is like, oh, I'm mad at you, so I'm gonna go to the native doctor, the voodoo guy, and I'm gonna get this charm and I'm gonna kill you with it, you know. So that's all horror film. So so I I guess I've been just immersed in that language of telling stories since I was a kid.

SPEAKER_00 6:00

Yeah. So I was reading your bio and I saw that um your Nigerian heritage kind of fuels your passion for storytelling. So uh can you talk a little bit about that? Did you did you grow up in Nigeria or how how does your heritage kind of uh uh inspire you as a as a storyteller?

SPEAKER_02 6:21

So yeah, I know I I I was I was born in Nigeria. I I came to America when I was I think uh 11 or 12, so relatively young, but uh, but still that's like zero to like 12. Like I've soaked up a lot of the culture, like I'm in Nigerian. Uh so it influenced my storytelling because I that's just what I I was around the whole time, you know. So I'm I like I love our culture and I love the richness in in in the like if you can if you decide okay, I want to go down this route, there's a whole different like each depending on where you want to go, there's a lot of different rich culture, rich folk, rich uh myth, like there's so many things in the African culture and then in the Nigerian culture that you can pull from that inspires me specifically to tell stories. And one of the examples I like to give is like so as a kid growing up in my village, like around I say like around Easter, like here in America, you get you we have East the Easter money, right? It's all cute and nice and cuddly. Back home, what we had is this thing, I'm gonna say the Nigerian name is um Oryoba, right? Is a masquerade where basically for I think for like 24 hours or so, if you go outside, you run the risk of being beat by this masquerade. Wow. And I'm not saying and I'm not saying like, oh, get slapped. I mean like actually beat with sticks with things that will actually harm you, and it's legal because it's a part of the culture, right? So it's like a way for you to respect the spirits and okay and not be outside well while the spirits are roaming, right? And it's not just one masquerade, it's like a bunch of them, and they're dressing like they like it's white, and mil there's like different colors uh of them, and they're just scattered across town. So, like, you know, as a kid, so the adults know what's going on. So, can you picture me as a kid? I'm terrified. I don't want to go outside, I don't want to get beat by this thing. So just one of those right there. It's a horror film, it's a horror film waiting to be told, right? So, like I was like, uh there was a uh along my you know career, someone was like, Oh, what kind of story would you like to tell? I'm like, they I told him similar story, and I was like, Imagine if instead of this thing being uh a human masquerade, but the actual spirits became real, what would happen to the town, right? So in this small town, the spirits, the spirits that we're emulating became real and actually came back to life. What would happen to people? And you know, as a human being, another human being beating you is difficult, but if an entity is actually there now and the way they used to be back in the day, what would that look like? That would look terrifying. So that's what I mean. Like, and it doesn't matter which side of the culture you want to go, like it the the it's endless for me. So yeah, so that's that's that's how my heritage like really, really inspires me for sure.

SPEAKER_00 9:44

So that you said that tradition takes place around Easter or on Easter?

SPEAKER_02 9:49

Yeah, it's like uh around Easter, and then I think there's some like in December, so it's like around the holidays.

SPEAKER_00 9:55

Okay, yeah. Because I mean, because that sounds like something uh that would happen at Hall, I mean, not to that extreme, but I mean that sounds like more like American Halloween. Is is there a Nigerian um version of Halloween?

SPEAKER_02 10:09

Well, it's more like I was like, yeah, it's like more like that, but like more frequent throughout because just masquerades and things that's just uh a part of like even when people are just having a regular celebration, there's masquerades all over the place. And I'm and I'm I mean, man, like if I go to my dad's side of Nigeria, their masquerades look different and terrifying all in their right, and my mom's side, it doesn't matter where you go, like there's masquerades everywhere. There's like it's it's insane. It's I could I could be here talking about it for hours, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:42

Yeah, yeah. So I mean, it really does sound like really um it's important to instill in children the respect for the spirit world. I mean, that's really what it sounds like is the is the heart of it.

SPEAKER_02 10:54

Yeah, no, it it it's like I I tell I like to tell people that Nigeria is a culture that has deep respect for for spirituality, right? So like uh whether what it doesn't matter what religion you and ultimately fall into, but like the respect of God out as an entity is always there. Like I I I joke with people as if you know Nigeria is a place where uh you will go to the club and you hear both Christian music and popular music all at the same place. Like we do not, at least from my own perspective, and and I can echo it for other people, but it's like the the like here in America, people like, oh, you go to church and then you know, or yeah, like it's two to us Nigerians is one and the same. Yeah, isn't it the same breath that you can get mad with somebody, but is it the same breath that you can forgive them and both pray at the same time? So like it's it's spirituality is just a part of our culture, and and I'm trying to walk that line right now as a storyteller because because that is my upbringing. Whenever I start to like tell people what my stories are about, they try to put me in the faith-based category of like no no no no come back here. I'm just saying this is my this is me, this is my voice as a storyteller. This is the stuff that inspired me. Doesn't necessarily mean that you get to put me in one particular category, so yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:23

But I mean, because would you put the exorcist well, would that be a faith-based movie, or would the conjuring be a faith-based movie, just because they're dealing with spirits and demons and the devil? That I mean, yeah, that seems a little absurd.

SPEAKER_02 12:37

Yeah, that yeah. Uh we had a an man, we just had a premiere uh screening for the film, and I and it was a wonderful like best experience I've had doing a f a screening, and people who weren't a part of the casting crew actually left their finished their movie and came in and watched our film. And afterwards, uh one of the men approached me and said, Hey, you know, it's really nice uh how God is using you to. So I was like, ah, okay, here goes. Like, okay, I I believe I bel I believe in God. Um I but at the same time, I'm like, okay, yeah, I think you misunderstood. I am not like trying to be preachy or anything like that. I'm just like this is the vehicle to tell this story. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:22

Yeah. Why do you think uh it seems like Nigeria is really becoming um a big part of the international film industry? I mean, there's that term Nollywood, and even on um Netflix now, there's several movies that I've come across that are made in Nigeria. Why do you think Nigeria is really just becoming dominant, more of a dominant force in the film industry?

SPEAKER_02 13:45

You know, I I'm I'm gonna speak to that from me as a kid watching the industry. Uh and I'll say that it's it's always been that way. And I think it is the access is becoming more available. Okay. Because even as a kid, uh just like we had movie stars like Nollywood, it like Nollywood was our thing. Like just uh America have Hollywood, and you have your movie stars, and and like that, that it was already there in Nigeria, is just what's happening now is that the technology and and and laws and things is just allowing us to have more access to to be able to share our stories on a global scale. And and so and we're just taking advantage of it as everyone else is able to take advantage of it. And to me, I'm like, okay, I'm doing my my little part of it by what I'm also doing. So it's just you know, we just it's always been there, just like the music for a while. Everyone was like, oh, Afrobeats, Afrobeats. No, Afrobeats has been there. It's just now that we are able to collaborate with American artists and bring bring Afrobeats to the to the world stage. So right, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:57

In in Nigeria, is uh the filmmaking industry mainly based in one city, like how in America, Los Angeles is like the movie making capital, or is it more spread out throughout the country?

SPEAKER_02 15:09

It's very much more spread out. Like you will you like I'm saying, like you could go to any village and you'll find, especially these days, you'll go to any village, you find someone with a phone in their hand making it making a short film. Like it's it's it's spread out. Again, the internet has has and technology has made it possible for more people who have stories to tell to be able to tell their story, and it just becomes a matter of you know who can take it further, you know. So it's more spread for sure. Is um formal like training, formal film education, is that commonplace, or is it more just people just picking up a camera and just deciding to tell whatever story that they decide to tell, you know, and not necessarily getting a four-year degree in whatever cinematography or you know, directing, or I I'll I will say that it is is both, but I'm also gonna emphasize on the education portion because because part of being a Nigerian is we we hold great value for education. Okay, um, like and and there's a there's this like unspoken thing about our culture that's like if you're gonna do something, you best do the best. Like be the best in that field for you. Not necessarily that you're gonna be the best at every everybody else, but like don't just kind of do it, right? So if you're gonna go be a filmmaker, go study filmmaking, learn from the best and and and and do it right. So there is a lot of education, but also it's also a thorough country, and as much access as we have, there's still a lot of access that we don't have. So you will find a lot of people who are just hustlers and and scrappy and just getting it done.

SPEAKER_00 16:55

Yeah, yeah. One thing I would love to see is more Nigerian films shown in theaters because I noticed something that happened in America around the time of the pandemic when um theaters started trying to recover from the pandemic, you know, and people not being able to, you know, go to theaters. I noticed that um there weren't as many movies released, as many Hollywood movies. So, at least locally here in where I live in Columbus, Ohio, a lot of the theaters fill up the extra theaters where there's not a Hollywood movie with um movies from India. So I would love to see why not be more international? Why not show Nigerian films in addition to the Indian films? You know, why is it only that quote unquote Bollywood is the only are the only and I know a lot of it has to do with population. Like there's a you know, fairly large uh Indian population, Indian American population uh in the Midwest. But you know, why not show international cinema, period? Why is it why is it just you know one culture? I would love to see more Nigerian films shown in theaters.

SPEAKER_02 17:57

Yeah, uh you know, I I would say that it will come with time. Just like it's just as it's come with time that uh you can log on to Netflix and see a bunch of Nigerian films, it will come with it, it will come with time because one of the things that actually surprised me, because when I left Nigeria, all uh all the industry back home had grown to was just to DVD sales, right? Oh, right. But now there's a full-on thriving theatrical business in Nigeria. So a lot of films go to theater. So filmmakers back home are used to having movies on the big screen. So I think it would just be again a matter of time before something clicks, and then you know, we we could bridge that gap.

SPEAKER_00 18:41

So I'm sure you can you can be part of that movement. I mean, you're you know, you're an American now, but I mean, yeah, I'm kind of prom promoting Nigerian culture.

SPEAKER_02 18:52

Yeah, I'm working on it, man. I just I just had a conversation, and and you know, one of the things I like to say is like, okay, whenever I go knock on a door, I'm like, hey, can I get in the door? Like, yeah, no, not yet. I'll be like, okay, I'll be back, you know. So it's not it's not a no, it's just like, yeah, like just give me a couple more runs at this, I'll be back.

SPEAKER_00 19:10

So yeah, I I I think I could do it.

SPEAKER_03 19:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:12

Right. You mentioned um that your wife is in involved in filmmaking with you. What is what is that like? Are you you are you both like are you full of a filmmaking team or who handles which aspect of the of the filmmaking?

SPEAKER_02 19:26

So uh when we first met, it was uh hello, I love telling the story. She would just like off of all the girls I was talking to at a time, she just found what I was doing interesting. Like, like we've done we've done a lot of random things where like I'm like, I'm like, oh my god, this girl probably thinks I'm insane. But like later on, later on, like I like I talked to her, she's like, no, we're just having a great time. So she she just liked the art and she had wanted to do it when she was younger, but she wasn't sure how to get into it. So like seeing me do it, she's like, oh my god, this is amazing. Um she's since held different roles as we've grown, right? So when I was just a crew member, like I would be like a I'll be a camera operator and I'll teach her how to be a camera assistant so we can work together and learn that way. And then if I graduated to be a DP, then she would be my camera operator and then just kind of back and forth. So right now, she says, she says her sweet spot is in uh producing and in acting, okay, and in writing, and she's writing it a film that she wants me to direct, but I think she's gonna direct it. I'm just not I'm I'm gonna let her walk into it because it you know that's me and my wife. I'm like, you should direct this. No, I'm not gonna direct. Okay, and then I just kind of let her sit for a while, and then eventually she'll be like, you know what, Joe, you're not doing it right. I'm gonna do it. I'm like, yeah. You know, so so I I think she's eventually gonna go into um direct, but right now she's she's a producer, she's a camera operator, she does catering, and she's also an actress.

SPEAKER_00 21:07

Okay. So what is that like of you know, of working and building a life together? Because some people like to have a separation between their work and their home life. I mean, do you do you all give you know give each other feedback on uh you know, well, you have well, you know, obviously you read you read what she wrote, and does she I mean, does she read your scripts and give you feedback? And how does that work?

SPEAKER_02 21:31

It it's it's uh I like truthfully, it's a thing that we have cultivated over the years because we basically almost grew have grown up together. Like I met her in college, and and we were just like young kids, don't know anything about life, just trying to figure it out and making all the mistakes possible and and figuring out ourselves individually and then figuring out ourselves together, and then eventually getting married. And but my goal the whole time has always Been like the filmmakers that inspire me, honestly. When I've looked behind the scenes, I see them working with their spouse. Like my favorite film filmmaker is Christopher Nolan. His producer is his wife. So like I just even Ryan Kugler, I've found out like, yeah, like there's that to me felt like just the right thing. Like, if you get your life partner on the same page as you, I felt like you could become a stronger team that could go further, right? Because then ultimately you know them, they know you, you could trust their feedback. So if my wife tells me I'm doing something, so whatever I'm doing is not working, I know it's not working because I've I've like given her enough information and received enough information from her to be like, yeah, no, that's not it. And and we've and we're a couple, and we don't agree, you know, that happens, right? Um so even in the things that we don't agree on and that we've figured out a way to to work through it, just gives me more confidence to to you know, just trust what she says. So um we're just we work hand in hand and and it's becoming more and more at the older we've gotten that that that the jobs are in almost inseparable and might be difficult for people looking from the outside, like crew members to deal with, because like, well, who's the who's directing this film? I'm like, okay, she got it, you know? So so yeah, so that's it, but no, we're we're we're good. We're good like that.

SPEAKER_00 23:32

And I would imagine there's the advantage of, you know, because some people, if you have a job, like filmmaking is very involved and takes a lot of hours and stuff. Some people, if you have a spouse who's not involved or you know, a life partner who's not involved, they may not understand, well, why are you working a 12-hour day? Or so so I'm sure it helps that since you're both involved, you understand everything that goes into it, and you don't have to explain.

SPEAKER_02 23:57

Yeah, yeah, no, that like from the like honestly, from the get-go, that was my personal journey, which is why every girl that I met, I was very transparent with them right away and said, Hey, this is the life, yeah, it means I'm gonna be poor for a very long time. I'm gonna be on available, like I was just up front and and and I didn't hold any girl like for being like, oh no, this is not for me. And I got to me, I was like, the sooner you you say is not for you and you go, the better for me versus us dragging it on, you know. Um, then which made it wild to me. And then eventually when I met my wife, and she was just she's she she have there's only been one project, like one major project that we could not work on together. And and I I was out of town, I was, you know, traveling and I did all this stuff, and I came back and she lost all she lost a lot of weight, and she was apparently she was mad at me. That's why she lost a lot of weight. But like that, that's just the way we are. It's like I I having someone like her in my corner makes it like that I don't have to worry about explaining myself because I think that that that part of it takes it takes too much effort if someone doesn't understand you, and I've seen it done by other creatives and other filmmakers where their spouse don't understand what it is to be an artist and be a creative person. That that that friction just seems like I'd rather have the friction where we're both like, no, this character needs to do this versus just do that. I'd rather have that friction versus the friction of like, why are you doing this? Why are you why don't you have money all the time? Like what your life makes no sense. But like, no, my wife gets it, she knows we're poor, and like I'm I'm talking like since we met, like she, like, oh, Joe hasn't eaten food in like two days, so I'm gonna take food from my job to make sure I feed him, you know. So, like that that's just you know, so yeah, it's yeah, it's good. It's good to have someone who gets it for sure.

SPEAKER_00 26:10

Yeah, I have a friend who's uh a novelist, and he's always talking about how his wife is completely indifferent to what he writes, almost to the point of like having this attitude of, oh, well, you don't really have a real job, I do. And I just can't imagine, you know, I'm single, but I can't imagine not having that kind of support. I can understand if your your spouse or or life partner or whatever doesn't, you know, doesn't necessarily want to be involved in the creation of your art, but to not even support it, I think would just be I don't know if I could be in a relationship like that.

SPEAKER_02 26:44

Yeah, it it's it's it's uh every time I've thought of it in that regard, I was it's just too much. It's rough, man. I don't think I could hang for sure.

unknown 26:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:53

What about um parents? You know, a big part of wanting to succeed in, or a big part of um feeling that you can kind of handle the ups and downs of uh a life in the arts is having family support. I would imagine with some parents, you know, you talked about the importance of education.

SPEAKER_02 27:12

Some parents are just like, no, I want you to get a you know, a job that has a very uh you know set career path, like become an engineer or become a doctor, where you know, you go to medical school and then you do your residency, and you know, is that you know, if you're comfortable about talking about it, is yeah, no, I'm very I'm very comfortable talking about it because I think it's one of those situations again that I drew the lottery because oh wow, right because um my mom. So here's the so when I get asked like how'd you get into filmmaking? I give a whole spiel, and my mom ended is it is the in the center of the reason why I became a filmmaker. Because prior to her, like I didn't even understand that people made movies, I didn't even understand that it was a world that existed that's available to me. And she basically stopped me one time and uh senior year in high school and gave me this whole spiel and sent me down this path. And I ended up discovering filmmaking. And ever since I discovered filmmaking, I was like, oh mom, I want to go to film school. We're living in Palm Spring, California at the time. Like she left everything she was doing, uh, drove me to Arizona to find the where we found like the cheapest college that was remotely affordable. And then I ended up ultimately going to a community college because of her just being the superhero that she is. Because so let me tell you this a little bit. We were driving, this is 08, there's no like cell phone GPS or anything like that. So I still had a map, and you had to buy the actual GPS, which we couldn't afford. So I had a map, yeah. So I had a map and we got lost. New state, haven't been here before. We got lost. We got off the freeway to go ask for directions, and we there happened to be a community college right like a stone's throw away. And she's like, Okay, let's go to the college because college schools will know each other and they can help us. We went in there and I sat in the lobby, and like 30, 45 minutes passed, and she came back. She's like, All right, Joe, so I've registered you to this and that and that. And she was just giving me everything. I was like, wait, wait, wait, mom, what? What to do? I'm like, no, we're going to that college. She's like, no, no, no. I'm like, well, mom, what about filmmaking? She's like, don't worry about it. I gotta figure it out. You see that guy that's walking up to you, that's Tony Deche. He is your film teacher and also your guidance counselor. Tony meet Joe, Joe, meet Tony, show hands, and like off I went. And that's how I became a filmmaker. And she like she had been the my my strongest supporter throughout the whole thing. Like, she understood what I needed. I don't I didn't understand what I needed, but she understood what I needed, and she did her absolute best, even like down to when I'm like trying to make my first movie, and I'm like, mom, like we need to get an investor. And she took her like last $1,200 to pay this guy who claimed that he help us like bridge the gap and get investors, total scam. And this guy scammed her out of her last money, and he broke my heart. I'm like, oh my god, like I I I wanted to anyway, stopping there. Um, so but that's the kind of woman she was, and eventually I was able to make my movie and you know, and make the second one. So, yeah, my mom was a pillar in my journey, absolutely. And then she passed in 2018. Um, because you know, life happens. Uh and man, I'll say that that if anyone asks me what was the most difficult part of the journey, I said that was very difficult for me because it you know, I I basically quit filmmaking after that, but you know, love of my family and my wife, everyone kind of helped me. They were like, but what are what else are you gonna do? I'm like, Yeah, I I don't, I'm not good at anything else. I wouldn't I don't know what else to do. So I got up and and kept going. But yeah, my mom definitely is a supporter, like for sure, for sure. My dad is more on the other side. Okay, like he would have been the he was an artist himself back then. Oh, really? Okay, but yeah, he was a sculptor, but he was also an educator, right? So he's more like, hey, like my mom is strong. My mom says, hey, if you're gonna do it, you must do it to the absolute best, and that's why I'm gonna invest my time and effort in you to make sure that you are successful. My dad is you gotta go to school. Uh you gotta get a proper education, you gotta get a proper job. Like you, that's so that's my my dad falls in. He he still kind of doesn't understand what I do. So, like, you know, every now and then, like we'll have a conversation and he's like, Oh, yeah, no, that's nice, that's nice. I'll be like, Dad, we have a movie. He's like, Okay, that's good, that's cool. So you're hustling, right? You're hustling. I'm like, Yes, yes, dad. I'm I'm hustling. Thanks. So the you know, there's two different people, you know. But my mom, yeah, she was amazing.

SPEAKER_00 32:04

Yeah, yeah. And I'm sorry that you lost her, but you're really honoring her by continuing to make films, and it's it's so great that you had such a supportive mom. So I'm I'm sure she's you know, she's up there cheering you on for sure.

SPEAKER_02 32:17

Yeah, man. I I I I think I think I am, and I I I hope that when I eventually have kids, I can be as cool and supportive remotely, as close to her as possible. Because she she gave me the foundation of like, oh, this is how you you parent a child, you know. So yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:37

It kind of sounds like the way you described um your uh your your family's journey that you kind of had a foot in both worlds. Like you said, you moved here when you were your family moved here when you were 12. Because just speaking from my own personal experience, growing up in the Midwest, I mean, I've I'm an indie filmmaker myself, and just movie making just always seemed so far away. It seemed like you know an entirely different coast, Hollywood, because we don't have the I mean there are indie filmmakers, you know, throughout America, but I mean, what I saw growing up on TV was like the Hollywood, you know, Steven Spielberg and all that. Um, but you know, it was I I would think it would be um so inspiring to grow up in a place like Nigeria where there's everybody, anybody can pick up a camera and it's part of the culture where it's not so much here, it's more looked at as, oh, you have to have a lot of talent and a lot of luck, and you know, you have to go to whatever NYU film school if you're really gonna make it big. And so, I mean, you talked about how your mom helped you realize that filmmaking was something that you could do, but at the same time, it was such a part of your culture. So that seems kind of like a um, I don't know, kind of a paradox that uh you know that you saw as something that like it took your mom kind of convincing you that you could do it.

SPEAKER_02 34:03

Yeah, so so to to maybe shed a little bit more light on on that specifically, like filmmaking as uh a job, like yes, it was around. Yeah, and yes, we watched movies, but yeah, I don't think I didn't think she herself understood that people can make movies as much as I didn't understand that people can make movies. Right. What what act what actually happened was throughout the whole she just she was just adamant that I do something that comes natural to me, right? Like versus what like so I was trying to go into the air force and become a pilot and do aeronautical engineering, she's like, I don't really see that that's it for you. Like, I see you doing something that comes natural to you. So when I started doing like the soul searching aspect of it, I I started, I remembered that my uncle was a musician and he had a record deal, and then I and then and we had this whole like family band that I've been a part of since I was a kid, and I play all the instruments, and then and then I remembered that my older brother was an actor in New York who was doing auditions all the time, who was in a lot of music videos and so on and so forth. So, like the world kind of peeled itself open to me. And then I went and watched the movie SWAT, and for the first time, I looked at the behind the scenes. I've never done that. I looked at the the bonus features and then I saw all this craftsmanship that went behind making the movie, and then I presented that to my mom and said, Hey, look at this. And then and then I went online and did my research and saw, like, oh my god, you can make a lot of money being a filmmaker, and that's kind of how we started going on the journey. But no, it wasn't it wasn't necessarily that filmmaking itself was a part of our culture, it's that art itself is a part of the culture, and we and we highly encourage anyone who wants to endeavor in anything to do the best at it that you can.

SPEAKER_00 36:01

Right, right. Yeah, so uh so the movie Whispers Bind, it's it's gonna be on uh streaming, right?

SPEAKER_02 36:08

Yes, yes, it's uh mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 36:11

Right. So uh if people uh you know want to get in touch with you or if they want to find out more about the movie, what's the best way to do that?

SPEAKER_02 36:20

Uh I Instagram. I say I'm I'm very active on Instagram, so find me on Instagram and send me a message. I I respond and we can we can chat about whatever you want to chat about. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 36:32

And what would what would be your advice for uh people who want to get into filmmaking? You know, whether young people or people who maybe have always had this dream but never thought they could pursue it, what would what would your advice be?

SPEAKER_02 36:45

I I will say that there's always a reason not to do it. Right? There's always a reason not to do it, and there's so too many reasons why not to do it, and you need to find your reason why you need to do it, because that becomes the the the core that will help you last the length of time that you need to last to be able to do it. And I would say, in especially today's day and age, the resources to be able to tell a story is there, like you know, even at the smallest level, you could pick up your phone and film something and put it on social media, and even if you get two, three, four people who see it, you've done more for yourself as a creative than you would have if you don't pursue it at all. So I'll say just give yourself the reason to do it and just get started.

SPEAKER_00 37:32

Yeah, yeah, that's great advice. Well, Joseph, it's been great speaking with you. I look forward to seeing Whispers Bind. Thank you. And yeah, just wishing you much continued success.

SPEAKER_02 37:43

Thank you, man. And I'm glad to hear that you're a filmmaker. So, man, if you have anything that you made that you're willing to share, I would love to check it out.

SPEAKER_00 37:52

Yeah, actually later this year, I'm gonna be releasing uh an indie movie I made called Things Are Tough All Over. It's funny you mentioned 2008 because it's set in 2008 during the Great Recession. A couple kind of struggling to uh keep their heads above water. So I appreciate you. Uh yeah, yeah, let's keep in touch and I'll you know let you know when uh when that's ready to release and you know send you links so you can because I'd love to get your feedback about it.

SPEAKER_02 38:16

Man, thank you. Thank you for considering me for that. I I would love to check it out. Honestly, I will. Thank you. Appreciate it. All right. Okay. All right, man.

SPEAKER_00 38:32

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