The Power of Nostalgia with Author Seth Panitch

Nostalgia is a potent drug. Screenwriter-turned-novelist Seth Panitch and I discuss the power of nostalgia and how looking back on things of value can enrich your life – a theme he explores in his new novel, “Antique.” The story centers on a once-celebrated antique appraiser who gets caught in the thrall of a strange, powerful necklace that has the power to change her life and alter the future of those around her.  

Connect with Seth at https://sethpanitch.com/ 

You can reach me at chrisbournea@gmail.com 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:09

Hi, and welcome to the Culture Beats Podcast. My guest today is author Seth Panich. Seth, how are you? I'm doing fabulous today. How are you, Chris? Great, great, great to have you on. Yeah, yeah. Nice to be here. Yeah. So I understand you're a screenwriter and playwright turn novelist. Is that right?

SPEAKER_01 0:28

Yeah, uh, and you can add professor into that as well. Um I head the uh MFA acting program at the University of Alabama um and uh I've done a few independent films. Uh uh I used to do a little screenwriting when I was in Los Angeles, but uh mostly plays in New York. Um, although one of my plays, um, uh I've done some work as a theater director in Havana, Cuba, and uh I've had one of my plays done down there as well. And uh I actually went into um into theater as an actor. One of the reasons I did Chris is because I thought it would help my fiction writing. One of the billion majors that I went through in college was creative writing when I was trying to do anything but theater. Um, and uh so I thought, well, you know, do a little uh little more acting and that'll help my writing. And then all these doors opened for me, and I just went through them and uh, you know, woke up around COVID saying, you know, there's one door I never went into and I'd like to try it. And so that's uh why I've transitioned to uh fiction.

SPEAKER_00 1:25

Wow. So your your novel is is called Antique, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:30

Correct.

SPEAKER_00 1:31

Yeah. Can you kind of uh tell the listeners and viewers a little bit about it?

SPEAKER_01 1:35

Yeah, sure, sure. Um, so uh anybody who's watched, and you don't have to have watched Antiques Road Show to enjoy it, because I I give you enough of it that you can figure it out. But anybody who's watched that show, have you ever seen it before?

SPEAKER_00 1:47

I have, and I actually years ago, I used to be a um reporter for a newspaper and I interviewed one of the hosts. I don't I don't remember his name, but this was like in the 2000s, like the the aughts. Oh, that's great.

SPEAKER_01 1:58

Yeah, that that's that's pretty much you know, that in the 90s are are a lot of the shows that I I was kind of grew up on and and uh always loved it. I it's not that I was ever into antiques, it's just that I'm obsessed with people that really know their stuff and listening to the they're like walking encyclopedias with all this information. I just love it. Um, and the people are kind of kooky too, you know. Uh uh there's something to watch. But um, anybody who watches that show knows that everybody brings their um, you know, their cherished uh, you know, grandmother's wedding ring, whatever to them, and they they want to know what it's worth, you know, some old painting. And and really, when I'm watching it, I don't think that's what they're asking. They're really asking, what am I worth? Because they, you know, they associate themselves with these things. And so this is our our hero, Grace Schaefer, has lost the meaning of what is she worth? She was one of the main appraisers on Antiques Road Show, loves her job, loves her husband, he's the host, and he loves his assistant. And they have an affair, and she's sort of humiliated and forced off the show. So she finds herself galloping a pace towards 50, not great for anybody, and particularly a woman, and she's without her job and without her husband. Her father's just passed, and he's like her guiding North Star. He's this big wig in uh the art history world, academia. Uh, and so she's left with a mother that mystifies her a little bit, as mothers sometimes do, at least mine did. And um, she's probably gonna listen to this, so I apologize, mom. Um, uh, but you do. Uh, and um, and she goes to one of these regional antiques roadshows in the middle of nowhere, and they have these all over the country, and she finds this necklace, this old beaten-up rock. And what she finds is when she wears it, she can't tell people that grandma's a ring is only worth 50 bucks. She tells them it's worth 5,000 and she's terrified she's gonna get fired. But when she goes to auction, those people could auction it sells for exactly the amount that she says it should. And so this piece gives her the ability to set the price of things based on the emotional connection that a family has with it and what their family means to them, not what the market says. That makes her famous again, puts her right back on Antiques Road Show and on the trail for her holy grail, which is a painting that's been lost for about 120 years. And it was a way she communicated with her father. So it's a way to talk to him as well. Um, but the question, of course, that she really has to face is is the worth outside or inside? What is it worth? What am I worth? And that's what the piece is about. Wow.

SPEAKER_00 4:14

Wow. So how did you get the idea for the story?

SPEAKER_01 4:17

Uh well, I was actually on the treadmill staffing off age myself, and um uh and I was watching one of these episodes, and um, you may be familiar with this one because it's from about the time period where you were watching it. Here's this older gentleman, and he comes in with this old beat up blanket, and it just, I think it sat over a chair or something, you know, in the family room. And it was from his grandmother, he just wanted to see what it was worth. And it's it's they told him that it's a Navajo Chief's blanket worth $500,000. Wow. Yeah. And the guy just sheets of tears start coming down his face. And what he keeps babbling is my grandmother and my grandfather, they were just poor farmers. And that's when I really saw that he was he was crying not because of the 500 grand, he was crying because someone was telling him his family's history was worth that kind of fund. Yeah. And that's where I got the idea. And I thought, isn't it beautiful that we have people and organizations that do this for us? And on the on the flip side, I thought, isn't it sad that we need it? Yeah. And so that's where I got the idea. And I wanted, I wanted to create a story where someone had the power to do that for people and ultimately do that for herself, uh, and find a way uh to maybe be able to do that without those training wheels, you know, and make that transition. But I'm also fascinated with um uh with people who, and all my stories really have this, Chris, somebody who's at rock bottom, and it could be for good reasons or bad reasons, but I love to see people climb out of that. That I I just I love that redemption story, um, probably because I've had to go through that in my life, and I know a lot of people that have. And and so those are the characters that I'm drawn to. And so that that that's how you know that idea morphed into this story.

SPEAKER_00 6:02

And uh I know you said you grew up watching Antiques Roadshow, but did you do any kind of research into the whole um you know world of antiques and the the appraisal project?

SPEAKER_01 6:12

Yeah, I I had to. I I spent, gosh, maybe like three, four months doing it. So I what I love to do, Chris, is buy a million books first. Because I don't know, maybe maybe it gives me confidence that I got all these books, so I must know something, whether I open them or not. You know, you think they're gonna osmotically come into you at night.

SPEAKER_00 6:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:30

So I bought a bunch on um antiques uh so I could learn, you know, how they're valued and how they're appraised. I bought the same um uh books that antiquers use, although now they just go online, but the ones they used to use to be able to value objects. And I spent a lot of time researching the people that do this. Um, there are a couple of great books and biographies and autobiographies of of great appraisers. Um, and so I wanted to study good what I got out of that was how the guests aren't the only ones who feel rejuvenated by this, that they're they're seeking that too. That that undiscovered gem really does something for them. And it's also they get to touch history, so they're all historians. So I did some research into that, did a lot of research into Antiques Road Show, and I didn't just watch the guests. What I watched was the B-roll. So I I really liked watching, you know, when the host is talking over something and just seeing how the cameras move. Yeah. Uh and I did a I took a lot of pictures of that on my iPad just to see how they use those close-up cameras when they're in medium, when they're in full, and when they use that crane camera to come in when someone starts to cry and they zoom right in on them. So I really wanted to get a sense of the drama. And also I did a lot of research into Sotheby's uh and Skinner's and the auction houses in the Northeast because I knew I wanted some climactic scenes in there. And I really wanted to get a sense of that incredible drama in those rooms when people are throwing out obscene amounts of money, money that they don't even have, to uh to to to get to complete themselves with this piece of art to become art, you know, in that moment. Uh, and to see how those auctioneers can manage a room is is incredibly powerful. And so I wanted to make sure I was able to do that in the piece.

SPEAKER_00 8:22

Right. And uh I was reading your bio, and uh, you know, you were talking about how there's magic in older things. Can you kind of elaborate on that? Yeah, hopefully there's magic in me, right?

SPEAKER_01 8:34

Um I I think there's magic. There's magic in us as we age. And I've actually I I've been to a you know, probably like 17 stops on my tour so far, book tour, and some of them have been events and some have been in like signings at Barnes and Noble. There's something about a signing which I really love because people don't know about the book at all, and to be able to talk to them about it and get them excited. But I talk to a lot of older readers about the magic of getting older, and they all kind of look at me askance. What are you talking about, youngin'? Right, uh, even though I feel pretty old. I have a birthday uh Thursday. Um uh and and what I tell them is, yeah, you know, the body isn't young, right? And the body isn't at its best, and your heart may not beat at its best, but it loves at its best and it it hates at its best, and it does, you know, the wisdom that we accumulate over a lifetime, I think, is magic. The summation of that takes us to, and I'm not talking religiously, but takes us to a spiritual place which which connects us in the world in a way that religion does uh sometimes for some people. Um, and and that to me is magical. That ability to be in an intense community with what makes us human is, I think, what age does for us. Uh and it allows us to see things differently too. Certainly we look at a sunset differently when we know that there are a finite number of them to watch. Yeah. That we do when we're younger, and we just think they're gonna be that way forever. And the way that we look at our loved ones and and our lovers. Um, uh, I think as you get older, there's a there's a greater appreciation if you're in the right relationship with what makes that person special, and maybe even what makes you special, although I think that's tougher for us to see. But I also think that there's a magic as we get older in simple things that we didn't appreciate when we're younger, such as, and I talk about this a lot, just the touch of your hand to a lover. There's like something electric that happens there. And it's something you have when you're really young, when you're 13 and the first handhold is like, oh my God. It's like it doesn't get better than that. Just wait, it will. Uh, but you know, that moment, and I think we lose that. We become calloused to it uh because it becomes usual to us, which is sad because it's not. And I think that age um reawakens that magic in simple things.

SPEAKER_00 11:01

Yeah, yeah. Well, happy birthday in advance. Thank you. Yeah, thank you. And I I happen to be, I don't know if it, you know, we're we're both writers. I don't know it's because if it's because we're writers. I'm a very nostalgic person, but I also think it's because um I'm Generation X and the generation I grew up in, there was a lot to be nostalgic about. There was like very different culture in the 70s, 80s, and even somewhat in the 90s. Yeah. I but I personally, and maybe it's just the nature of getting older. It seems like society is ahistorical now. Like one of the things I do is I go and volunteer and speak at schools about careers, and I will make someone that I think is just you know, a household name that any anyone of any generation will know. Like, you know, I'll say I was partly inspired to get into journalism because of Oprah and the kids of Oprah. Because she's not in everybody's living room the way she was, you know, in the 80s when her talk show was was on the air. So do you find that that's it's this weird paradox where all of history is at our fingertips, but yeah, nobody looks at it. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 12:06

Yeah, and and I uh I have a really good sense. No, I don't, that's a lie. I think I have a good sense of youth because I teach them, uh, but obviously I, you know, I'm seeing the tip of the iceberg. I'm just seeing them for a couple hours a week, so I don't really know what they're getting into. Um, but I see them in class and because I teach acting, I see a lot of their personality in that class. And I'm from the same generation you are, you know. Okay. You know, I was born in 68. So, you know, I was weaned on the 70s and the 80s and the 90s, and and and and what I've noticed is that and I'm very fortunate, Chris, because a lot of my actors, when I inspire them, hopefully, to go look back at somebody. It's like, don't look at the person that's doing it now. Look at the person you respect that's doing it now that stole it from the original, right? Can you get back to the OG? So, you know, I'll send them back to like Olivier and Gilgood and and and like Robson. I'll send them all the way back. Um, so they understand what modern actors are doing better because modern actors, the best ones, all looked back at their history. I mean, the best people do in everything that they do. So, what I've noticed is that we, meaning our generation and the generation that's older than us, have programmed these kids, not you and I, because we're writers, but have programmed these kids and programmed society to respond to everything, right? Um, this is sort of my my hobby horse that I like to get on and whip. And it's like, you know, uh businesses do this, you know, please leave leave us a review. Well, they never read that crap. They could care less what you really think. They want you to think that you have skin in the game, so you're gonna buy their stuff more often. Right. And they do this with these kids, and this has gotten into social media, and I see this all the time. I'm sure you do too. I mean, I'm looking up stuff on, you know, Coppola or like great directors, and I'm looking up something from say Apocalypse Now or Godfather, whatever. And then I'll see some what I like to call underwear jockeys, which is some guy sitting up at 3 a.m. in his underwear writing, I could have done that scene better.

SPEAKER_00 14:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:03

It's like, you know, because we've we've trained them to comment on everything, and that's what helps the algorithm and this and that. And the problem is they're commenting without any sort of substance behind it. They're equating opinion with fact or history. So they don't need history because they're already perfect. So a lot of students go to college not to learn, but for someone to tell them that they're already learned.

SPEAKER_00 14:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:30

And that's really unfortunate. And I I'm battling against that as best I can, and and not all of my students are open to that, but but but there are a lot that are. I just don't know if academia is asking them to do it because they've become customers to academia and they they've got to bring in a certain number of students. So um there's still professors out there that are they're trying to tow the line, but you know, it's it's I don't think it's a losing battle, but but I think we're on the short end of this stick.

SPEAKER_00 14:58

Yeah. And uh, you know, you mentioned in researching Antique that you uh you bought physical books rather than going online how a lot of Antique uh experts do now. I personally think, and I'd like to get your perspective on this. Technology is sort of a double-edged sword because there's all this information at our fingertips, as I was saying earlier, but you have to think it out. And I remember when you know, when when we were kids and we were growing up, you know, there was all that talk about don't sit in front of the television at all, you know, your brain or whatever. But I was a TV junkie when I was a kid. I was a you know, I was a latchkey kid and I was a couch potato. And the upside of that was I learned history because there were all these old commercials on like time life anthologies of things that were popular when my grandparents were my age. And and you know, The Wizard of Oz was not a contemporary movie when I was growing up. It was released in the 30s, but it came on TV every, you know, every year at the same time. So I knew stuff from my parents' generation and my grandparents' generation because of TV. They have streaming and they can they have access to all those other movies, but they have to seek them out. They're not broadcast. You know, we don't have monoculture where everyone grows up with the same experience. Everyone is having their own individual curated experience, much like the antique. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:22

And it's it's a giant, you know, it's a giant hill of um hay, right? It's a huge hay pile. And in there is all this great stuff, but but you've got to dig for it. And I think that because you know, we're we're trying to be trained to just go flip, flip, flip, flip, flip, right? I mean, that's how people date, right? Flip, flip, I don't like their nose, right? I don't like their nostril. It's like boom, boom, boom, boom. I'd never survive today in dating. Um uh, you know, so um to have that patience to be able to dig a little deeper, obviously that's that's what art's about, right? It's digging a little deeper is is tough. It's a it's a tough sell. Um I still think that when you actually put a young mind in front of something that has roots, something, if it's great material, something lights up. And I've noticed that on the book trail. And I'm I'm a pessimist when it comes to um the generation that's coming up now. But there's a lot of youth in bookstores, and it kind of shocked me. And they'll come up, you know, they come up to the to the desk because they want to see a famous writer. I try to convince them, I'm not a famous writer, but um, but uh, but I'm I'm that's nice, anyways, right? Uh but but they want to meet a writer. So already they're kind of interested. It's like, what is a writer? Because everything is AI and everything is generated. So what is actually somebody who's like working on a cave painting? You know, what is that person? So they're kind of fascinated in us. And when I start telling them about the book, they've bought it. Like young girls and boys have bought like the hardcover with with very little spendable money. And it it's first of all, it's such an honor, but it also is really inspiring to me that there is a generation coming up that that is interested in it. Um so I, you know, I think that that that eventually diamonds come through the rough. But you're right, it, you know, it has to be, they've already walked into the bookstore. So already that's a small percentage of the population. So I am talking about a you know, a splinter of what's out there. And maybe that means we've got to get out there more, you know, and and we've got to we've got to reach them when they're younger. Um, but uh, but I I I'm seeing lines at Barnes and Nobles of people buying hardcover books. And I talked to somebody at one of the Barnes and Nobles, I can't remember whether it's maybe in Knoxville or something, and she said, Yeah, she's seeing a huge uptick in people not just coming in and drinking coffee and seeing what books they're gonna get on, you know, to listen to an Audible, but really leave with books.

SPEAKER_00 19:03

Yeah, yeah. I live in uh Columbus, Ohio, and the Columbus Book Fair, which is I believe coming up uh in June, is it's always packed with and not not just with older people, with young families, with young children, and like you said, young people in their teens and twenties. So there seems to be a hunger for tactile physical books. But then there's this weird uh dichotomy of the publishing industry announcing its own death all the time about how thing is shrinking and all this consolidation and you know publishing is dying. It's just weird. It's you know, those two realities don't square up.

SPEAKER_01 19:39

Well, and if publishing dies, people will still put their books in stores, they'll just independently publish and they'll hybrid publish, you know. And you know, I mean, it's like it's like people saying, well, you know, theater's gonna die. It's not. I mean, even if the theaters can't afford to do theater, people are gonna do it, right? I mean, it's you know, it's and and these things are cyclical, as you know. And so, you know, there's gonna come, there's always that for some reason the movie that's coming up to me now is the is the cable guy. Remember the you ever see the cable guy? The last scene where where where you know, because Jim Carrey, spoiler alert for anybody who's gonna watch it for some reason, you know, falls down. Yeah. You know, Jim Carrey falls down and he shorts out the satellite, and so everybody's TV goes off. And I think it's like Ben Stiller who directed it, finally turns to his left and picks up a book and just sighs. There's something every night, you know, I am obsessed with like sports cars and running shoes because I'm a running fanatic, and so I'll watch those videos. But when I put that down and just pick up a book at the end of the night, I can feel my blood pressure come down, right? I can just feel myself settle and it's like it's like a a wave coming in and pulling you out into this calm ocean, and everything just feels so much calmer and realer and better and sustainable. Um, and I I think that that people will come back to it, just like at the end of Cable Guy. I mean, there's people will always come back to it, and uh if there are any people around, you know, if we don't AI ourselves to death, right?

SPEAKER_00 21:13

Um, good point. Yeah. So do you plan uh to write any like make antique a a series or uh write a sequel or you know it's interesting.

SPEAKER_01 21:24

I never thought of it as a sequel. Um and it really struck at home to me when I got to that last scene. For me, there's definite closure. Doesn't mean it's necessarily closed the ending, you know, because it does get a sense that something goes on from there. But I got a real nice sense of closure for the character, which helped me because obviously when I write, I'm putting myself in that, not just the main character, but I because I'm an actor, I like to act out the roles and I really, I really do feel them as I write them. And that's one of the most enjoyable aspects of it to me. But I will say that I'm still in that world of magic and the second. Book that I've written, uh, which I'm working out with my agent now. I'm just waiting on some notes for him and I'll finish. I like to do like seven and nine drafts before you know we try to go to market. So, and we'll go to market probably in September. So I probably have a you know a draft and a polish. But I'm also working on my third, and that also has some magic to it. Um, although each of them is getting a little darker and darker as I go. So my my big love is horror. So I I don't want to just jump into it, but I'm hoping eventually I can get in there. Yeah. But that that'll come. So yeah, I mean, you know, it is again a story. The second piece is called Harmony, and it's it's about a down-on-is luck musician um who's almost made it and didn't quite in the Greenwich Village scene. And uh, and he he discovers his old cassette tape. Uh, and on it is this lost demo from what I think is the most famous rock star of the 60s. And it's not just a demo, it's like the voice is talking to him, and the voice is coming back. That person's coming back to write one last song, and this guy gets to write with him and write his own career back on track and write his marriage back on track, and it's called Harmony. So there's there's magic in that piece as well. And and uh the third piece has a lot of dark magic in it. So so you know, people who who read Antique who like it will see forms of it in the next pieces.

SPEAKER_00 23:19

The same themes. Yeah, yeah. And you say, just out of curiosity, and you don't have to reveal it. When you say the most famous rock star of the six, is it an actual person or some fictional rock star? No, it's a it's a real person. Okay, it's a real person.

SPEAKER_01 23:33

Sounds like you want to kind of keep the uh suspense and not say who it is, which is which Yeah, I'm trying to keep the suspense, and I'm I'm yeah, but anybody who knows 1960s rock and roll um is who really knows it is gonna know it in the first scene. Right. Um, those who sort of know it are gonna know it by page like 45 to 50. So I don't I don't I don't keep it, I don't keep it hidden forever. Um and people who have no clue who this person is is gonna know it at the end.

SPEAKER_00 24:01

Yeah. It's really interesting how a lot of young people they know classic rock, but they don't necessarily know, you know, the 80s or 90s, but they know, you know, the Beatles and people from you know from the classic rock era.

SPEAKER_01 24:15

Yeah, I think you know, those those pieces that that those mountaintops that just stand above, like the stones and and the who and that sort of thing, you know, um Joplin and Hendrix, I I think that stuff's always going to be around. You know, um, there's some stuff in the 80s that I hope survives. Um, but but I'm a huge Prince fan. I hope so. Yeah, and and I well, I think because Prince is so steeped in the 60s with with the way that he he you know revered Hendrix, I think that again, you know, that that's who he followed, but of course, you know, he's following Robert Johnson as well. I mean, he's he's a blues musician, so yeah, um, but I I think that Prince will endure. Um, he really does span it, and I think there's a few in the 80s that might um, you know, I don't know if if Wham will. Um, but well, George Michael was a brilliant song, yes, he was. Yes, he was. And and I love Wham and and and and and specifically George Michael. Um, but but uh so he'll endure in my house.

SPEAKER_00 25:11

Yeah, yeah. I was talking to a um a a young man who's a millennial, and um, I don't know how the topic of Tina Turner came up, but he was like, you know, I don't hear many people talking about her. I think her influence is gonna die with my generation. I was like, I hope not, because she was a force of nature, but yeah, yeah, I'd be shocked. I'd be shocked. She's a fire plug. Yeah, yeah. So what what would what's some of your advice for people who want to become both screenwriters and novelists? I mean, there's there's so many paths. There's the traditional path of trying to get an agent. There's you mentioned self-publishing, which is, you know, there's no the stigma around self-publishing has kind of um you know reduced and as the technology has gotten better. And yeah. What what what what is your advice advice for someone who wants to break into Yeah, unfortunately, I got a bunch of it.

SPEAKER_01 25:58

Um uh in terms of fiction, um, I went traditional publishing route. You know, I got myself an agent and sold that way. And there's real big positives on that. You know, you when you go in, when you meet somebody at a Barnes and Noble and you have something from Hashette, they're like already you got your foot in the door, you know, and so people are already assume that it's a good book, whether it is or it isn't, you know. Um, but they don't they don't publicize debut authors. I mean, they put you on a list with all their other, you know, and they have to, you know, they have you know 20 books releasing the day that mine released on February 3rd, right? And Ken Follett was on that list. So I'm buying Ken Follett, not Seth Panich. I mean, even me, right? I'm buying his book, not mine. So, so it's very difficult to compete. And so you still have to do so much more work. And I think that that traditional publishing lulls you into a false sense of security. And I had never been this route before. You know, I was a theater guy, so I didn't know what to expect. And so I I learned my lesson. Um, you know, that first those first two weeks were a spanking machine, and so I I went and hired myself a publicist and and really started contacting bookstores on my own and getting out there. And again, it's not it's not the publisher's fault. They published my book, right? They did what they said, you know. Um, you know, I'm the one that has to sell it. I think that, you know, hybrid is a terrific way to go, you know, um, uh, because it's a it's a little of both. Um, you know, you don't see as much money, but but you, you know, you do get that. It's a little easier, I think, to get into book places, you know, and and stores. Um I think my personal belief is that it's easier to get a book published than it is to get a screenplay sold. I yeah, I would have assumed so. You know, I I I think that screenplays now are so fully based on pitching it in a single sentence, as a lot of books are too, right? I mean, maybe maybe for books we get two or three sentences, you know? But um, but for you know, films, I you know, especially if you're talking about Hollywood films, um, it, you know, it has to be something that can have a star attached. It has to be something that can make its money in the first weekend. Yeah. It has to. Um, uh, I mean, there's there's so many financial constraints on a film that that selling a screenplay, unless you know somebody, is, is, I mean, you might as well go to Vegas. You got better odds. Uh, what I would say is the best way to to break into Hollywood or independent film or or anywhere, you know, uh Atlanta market as a as a as a writer is to create your own opportunity, is to make a short that gets that gets a nice play in in short festivals. You know, the main festivals now for us as independent filmmakers, you can't get into them anymore. You can't get into Sundance, you can't get into North by Northwest, you know, South by Southwest. You can't get you can't get into any of those now. You can't get into those. It's a joke. Um, because that's where Hollywood is, because Hollywood's trying to build buzz for that first weekend, right? So we can't compete, you know. But all the they still go out. In fact, my first film is called Service to Man, and it was loosely based on my father's experiences. He was one of the first white students at Maharry in the 1960s. Yeah, really needed.

SPEAKER_00 29:11

Right.

SPEAKER_01 29:12

Yeah, yeah. And they just, I think a year or two before it started taking white students. Um, and uh, so he was one of the first. And so, you know, talking about fish out of water for him, kid coming out of Brooklyn, right? Big Jewish area, and and uh, and for them, you know, I mean both sides, right? Um obviously they studied all the time, so I had to make up a story, but but um uh but that piece we played at a bunch of great festivals. And one was um uh the American Black Film Festival in Miami, and that that's not, you know, like Sundance, but we had a bunch of offers after that for distribution. Um and my second film got The Coming got its distribution, came out in April, and that was distribution out of a out of a out of a nice, small, terrific festival. So I would say if they really want to break in as a screenwriter, write yourself a great tight, short or short film, right? You know, um an hour and 18 minutes long, right? So 80-something pages, shoot it and make sure that story is just bulletproof. And then, and that's the way you've got to, you've got to build worth in what you do, and it can't just be on the page anymore. Yeah, that's that's that's my experience. Um uh for novels, it's different, you know, and and and it's it is what's on the page, it's got to be in your first 10 pages, yeah, because no one's gonna go past those 10, and most people don't go past the five. But you've got 10 pages usually to lock somebody in. And there's so many books that are being released all the time that they do look, and they'll look, you know, they'll look at your three sentence. Um, you know, when I when I so what I did this antique I consider my first book, but there was an Ur book, like Ur Hamlet, right? This first pass, and it was just a rough uh take on um on an adapt. Sorry, it's my meditation bell, if you hear that. Um uh it's it was it it was an adaptation of um of my screenplay for the coming, and so I knew the story really well and I knew I could write it as a novel. So I I wrote it, it's not really a novel, but but at least I wrote, you know, 400 pages uh to get it done. I sent that out to 106 agents and I got 106 rejections. Wow. But about 85 of them were incredibly nice and kind and supportive, and probably 50 said, love the writing, let me see your next book.

unknown 31:43

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 31:43

And that told me that that's very different than the screenplay world and very different than the theater world for plays, that that the these people will look at your one page. You know, they may not get past the first sentence, right? But if you can, if you can get them on the first sentence and you can get them through that first page, they may ask for 10 pages. And to me, Chris, that's a really good sign for people who are going into this industry. But you but you can't just send out what you think is great. I mean, it it you have to send out something that they can make money on. And that's that's sometimes that's tough in our minds, but you but you've got to, I mean, we've got to be realistic. No one's gonna buy your bleeding heart, no one cares. Yeah, you know, it's gotta be a compelling story, or thank God it's gotta be funny in this world, um, uplifting, or you know, whatever it's gonna be. And and I think that that still sells.

SPEAKER_00 32:36

Yeah. Well, Seth, it's really been fascinating talking to you. I really appreciate you taking the time out to speak with me. Of course. It is a pleasure. All right. Take care. Thank you. Take care, sir.

SPEAKER_01 32:46

Bye-bye.

SPEAKER_00 32:54

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