How Black Twitter Changed Society with Dr. Sherri Williams

In this episode, I speak with professor and journalist Sherri Williams, author of the new book “Black Social Television: How Black Twitter Changed Television.” In the book, Sherri describes how Black consumers harnessed the power of social media to push for greater representation in television, movies and other media platforms. 

Connect with Sherri at https://www.sherriwilliamsmedia.com/

You can reach me at chrisbournea@gmail.com

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:06

Hello and welcome to the Culture Beads Podcast. I'm your host, Chris Bournet. My guest is Dr. Sherry Williams, author, professor, journalist, and a longtime friend of mine. Her book, Black Social Television, How Black Twitter Changed Television, is now out in paperback. Without further ado, here's our conversation. So Sherry, it's great to catch up with you. You know, we we go way back to when we were both. We do, we do. Yeah, yeah, when we were both working for you were working for the Daily Dispatch here in Columbus, Ohio, and I was working for the community newspaper. So we kind of, if I remember correctly, that's how we kind of our paths cross that way.

SPEAKER_01 0:51

Absolutely, running into each other on assignments and just out and about in the city, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 0:56

Exactly. And now you're in addition to being a veteran journalist, you're the professor of journalism and media studies at American University. Is that right?

SPEAKER_01 1:05

I am. My official title is associate professor in race media and communication. So I mean, I am essentially a journalism professor, but I teach classes also about race and representation, and particularly about how people of color and people across all identity categories are represented in media, both like fictional media and also journalism.

SPEAKER_00 1:25

Right. And so that brings us to you are the author of the new book, Black Social Television, How Black Twitter Changed Television. Did I did I get the title right?

SPEAKER_01 1:34

Of course you did. Yeah, thank you.

SPEAKER_00 1:36

Okay. Yeah, yeah. So, first of all, so how did you get the idea for the book to write the book?

SPEAKER_01 1:41

So it's really interesting. Um, this book is basically based on my PhD dissertation. Okay. So what after I left the dispatch, I went to Syracuse University um for um a master's journalism program. So really what I wanted to do was really just learn how to be more than a pad and pencil uh journalist. So I wanted to learn how to cut and audit, uh cut and edit audio and video. So I went to a one-year program at uh Syracuse University. But while I was there, I took a research class and this professor was like, Oh, you did a really good job, so you should apply for the PhD program. I did and I got in. And so for my dissertation, while I was sometimes like um on the weekends doing homework with my colleague and friend um Linessa Williams Martin, we would see that while we were doing our homework uh on and watching, like, you know, the Twitter stream and also watching television when the Real Housewives of Atlanta would come on, we would see that like all these things that they were talking about, like the catchphrases like old lady gang or buy ashy when Portia was telling Kenya she had ashy feet, like all these different things, um, they started trending. And then one night I saw that all of the top trending topics in the United States were related to the Real Housewives of Atlanta. And then Linessa and I both noticed that there is something here. So then we just started keeping track of how black people's use of social media and the conversations, the digital conversations that we were having about television, and not only just television, but also representation and ways that black people were pushing back and resisting stereotypes. We kept keeping keeping track of all those things. And eventually I turned that into my PhD dissertation and spent um an incredible amount of time studying and observing the way that black folks were um talking about television online and also engaging in digital advocacy about re black representation on television.

SPEAKER_00 3:39

Right. So I understand in the book that you trace black activism back to like over a century ago, like 1915, when um the NAACP was campaigning against the notoriously racist movie Birth of a Nation. So do you do you kind of tie that into social activism on uh uh social media?

SPEAKER_01 4:01

Absolutely. So black people have always been protective of our images because we know that our images are often distorted and maligned and used against us in ways to show the rest of America that they are not like the rest of us and they don't deserve the same privileges and rights that we do, right? So it is important for us to really be careful about how we're portrayed and really understand that the way that we're portrayed has a direct impact on how we are treated and also how people govern about us, right? So, like with The Birth of a Nation, for example, this is a film that, and unfortunately, and I have seen this as a media scholar in my media studies, um, I have seen that film schools really congratulate this film and celebrate this film for being um a vanguard, like at the vanguard or a pioneer for its technological and cinematic advances. So, you know, they talk about like how the cameras are used and angles and different things like that, but they don't talk about the content and how this was basically just anti-black and white supremacist propaganda, which is very crazy to me, but also not surprising, right? So, but black people, particularly the NAACP, said that we need to stop having this film screened because it is having a direct impact on how black people are and are not feeling or actually being safe in their neighborhoods. So, while looking, while doing the research for this book, I found that in the counties where Birth of a Nation was screened, KKK membership increased. Anti-black violence, vigilante violence against black people increased. And again, this was months after the so they uh the researcher took uh like a snapshot, like about um, I think it was like 18 months from the time that the film was screened in these counties to several months more than a year after they found again KKK uh membership and anti-black violence increased. So there is like a direct correlation and there are real consequences to for these anti-black images and how people actually treat each other. And even when we kind of fast forward into um into like the 70s and 80s, there was this film Fort of Panche Brock that came out, which was probably considered as one of the first Kapaganda films that folks in uh New York City were protesting against. Because she was, she was, she was so all of the heroes were the white cops, but all of the bad guys were all the black and brown people, right? So black folks, brown folks protested against that film back in those days. And even when we move into like the 1980s and the 1990s, the NAACP protested against the big three networks because I believe it was in 1998. All of the big three networks, and also including Fox, none of them had black leads or even people of color as leads during primetime shows. So the NAACP protested back then because we know in media studies there is a um a term called symbolic annihilation, which basically says that uh social groups that don't have a lot of power in society are often invisibilized in mainstream media depictions. And if we do see them, it is in very stereotypical ways, right? And so just not even having people of color exist in mainstream media depictions, that even says something that people are not even important enough to be portrayed, right? So um now when we fast forward into the 2010s, now we have this situation where we have these mobile devices, and now black people can instead of you know standing outside of ABC, NBC, CBS, and Fox with picket signs, or standing outside of theaters in 1950 when The Birth of a Nation came out, we can tweet directly to the director, the writer, the producer, the production company, the network, the film company, and really let them know directly how we feel about these images that they are distributing about us, right? And what is really important is that now we can also communicate directly with the advertisers because we know that all of this is a business, nothing runs without money. And so one thing that I think is really interesting, and I talk about it in the book, is that there was this show called Sorority Sisters that was on VH1 probably about a decade ago now. And we know that there is a formula for a lot of VH1 reality shows that uh especially have black women as the central cast members for them to argue a lot, to fight a lot, whether it's verbal or physical, right? And so this show, sorority sisters, was about black women who were members of the divine nine historically black Greek organizations. And so when um people who belonged to these Greek organizations found out, and these again were organizations that were started because, you know, black women, black men were not allowed to journ to join the Greek system that already existed at predominantly white institutions, so they started their own. And this and these organizations have a long tradition in community service and upliftment of the community. So when people saw that these women, highly educated black women, were being portrayed in ways that didn't show that they were highly educated black women who belong to these esteemed groups, people on Twitter started tweeting directly to the advertisers. So people were directly, so you know, when the so the show is on and they're watching the the Twitter stream and contributing to it, and they're saying, like, okay, so they saw that Bose just ran um an ad. So Bose, is this how you see us? Is this how you is this the show that you really want to um support? Okay, bet, we're not buying your speakers anymore. Hey Carmex, you know, I love your lip chat, but I don't love the fact that you are supporting a show that makes black women look like the angry black women and MBA, um, there were so many different uh Toyota, I remember, was one of the companies. And uh people were tweeting directly to those advertisers, and some of them actually did respond in real time and say, hey, you know what? We're actually pulling the rest of our ads for the rest of this season. So you don't have to worry about us doing this anymore. But what really what they were doing is not only protesting what they saw and resisting and objecting to the ways that black women were being portrayed on this show, but they were also using their dollars to say that this, the way that you are supporting these images of our community does not make sense. So this is also, it's not just activism, digital activism that's about representation, but it's also digital activism that is really getting to the root of capitalism and profit from these kinds of images. So it's been really interesting to take a look at the ways that black people have been really defensive of our images for the reasons that I've said before, and how we have whether it whether we have picked up picket signs and you know, protested outside of a major studio network or even a movie theater, or picked up our phones to protest um against the images that we're seeing? We are still now um decades later, still being protective of our images.

SPEAKER_00 11:51

Right. So how do you kind of um square the fact that black people can, you know, it's a cliche to say the black community is not monolithic, but I mean that's true. How do you um how is it possible to hold two thoughts that black people can look at the same content in different ways? For example, I remember in um either 85 or 86 when the color purple came out, the NAACP protested because of the depiction of black men in the color purple. But other people, other people, other people in the black community thought, oh no, this is you know a beautiful story that centers women and you know is featuring black people in a in a in a major movie that's been nominated for an Oscar. How do you kind of square those? You know, is it okay to disagree that you know not all of us are going to see the same content in the same way? For some people, something like the color purple may be a classic, for others it's exploitation and this the same old, you know, uh representation of you know black men being abusive, etc.

SPEAKER_01 13:00

Yeah. So I mean, honestly, I I definitely think it's always okay for people to disagree. And I always think that it is okay to critique any and everything. Everything is up for for critique. I don't think that we should, just because something is whether it is um a film, a television show, um, whatever it is, just because it has black people in it, I don't think that we have to just like shh, you know, we don't get too many things. So let's not say anything bad about it and let's just support it. Because I just don't think that that makes any sense. But I also know, and media studies backs me up on this, is that people come to media depictions and they view them through their own lens and through their own experiences. So, what I recall about the color purple, and even though I was very young, I do remember this, and it I thought it was really interesting, is that that divide, a lot of it was a gender divide, right? Because black women appreciated this story written by Alice Walker that was based on some of her own family experiences and um black women's experiences from the past. So people, black women appreciated that, and it was a southern story. So there were so many, this was a story in so many ways that encompassed a lot of identities that we just didn't see. Black people, black women, southern women, southern women of a certain age or a certain region. But at the same time, black men were thinking, okay, but all of the men here, whether it's Danny Glover or uh Adolf Caesar who played his father, um, they're all negative in some sort of way, right? So, but black men who were watching that were watching it with their own particular lens of their from their experience. So I understand why they would look at it like that. Like there are some black people who feel that all of reality TV is trash and it should all be canceled because it all of it makes us look bad. And as someone who is a media scholar and an avid television watcher, I write about TV, I watch TV. I don't think that reality TV is all bad because I'm not watching it with the same lens that everyone else does. I'm also not saying that these shows deserve Emmys or anything like that, but what I will say is that um I have rarely seen a show about a black family or a family of color, an Afro-Latino family dealing with one of the children transitioning. I saw that on the gossip game on BH1. Wow. I rarely see depictions of how incarceration has an impact on black families, particularly young children, when their parents go off to prison. I've seen that depicted more than a few times on Love and Hip Hop when Scrap DeLeon went to prison, when Lil Scrappy went to prison. So, I mean, we know that over incarceration has a devastating impact on black families. We don't see that a lot on scripted television, though. So these shows that are produced and written by some of these elite Hollywood black content creators, we don't see those kinds of stories coming from them all of the time. But we do see them on reality television, which is seen as this trashy genre, right? So again, I don't think that we should not critique anything, any of these black narratives, because I think if we really take a step back, depending on what our lens is and what our personal experience is, I think we might find that there is a little bit of value in everything, but everything can also be critiqued.

SPEAKER_00 17:02

So what I hear you saying is don't just paint every genre with a broad brush. You just can't say all reality TV is trash and there's absolutely no redeeming value in it.

SPEAKER_01 17:13

I mean, I wouldn't say that, but also, unlike a lot of people, I do actually watch these shows, right? So I mean, I actually know what I'm looking at. So when you talk about Jocelyn and Stevie, and even though they're kind of old, and I feel like everybody knows who they are. But um, when you talk about Kirk and Rashida and Jasmine, like I actually know what you're talking about. Right. So I know what some of the value is on some of these shows. And I also know what some of the problematic aspects are, too.

SPEAKER_00 17:39

So it also sounds like you're saying watch, but watch with a critical eye. Don't just consume it like junk food.

SPEAKER_01 17:46

Right. And don't don't look for the bad. What else is there? What else do you see?

SPEAKER_00 17:52

Yeah. So I know you kind of touched on it in the book um with Elon Musk having acquired Twitter. Is black Twitter still um as influential as it was when it was still Twitter? Is it even called something different now, black black ex?

SPEAKER_01 18:08

I mean No, I don't think that Black Twitter is as influential as it was then, and I also don't think that Twitter itself is as influential as it was back then. But all of the engagement that we had around scandal back then, we didn't have it for some of her other shows, like um Queen Charlotte and others, because she was off Twitter by then, right? She just stopped using it. Now, also we wouldn't have had the same engagement because you know that's a the Queen Charlotte and all of the Bridgerton stuff was on Netflix, and you know, sometimes people binge that, and it just has like a different kind of engagement in the first place, especially beyond the first weekend. But um, a lot of um celebrities who are people who did engage a lot on social media around their shows left the platform. People just do not see uh Twitter as the same place that it used to be. And GLAD, unfortunately, deemed Twitter as like the most unsafe place for queer people when it comes to social media platforms. So, no, uh black Twitter doesn't have the force that it used to have, but also Twitter is not the force that it used to be either. But one thing that I will say though is that that the platform Twitter itself would have never been what it was without black people and without Black Twitter, because the way that we used it, first of all, we were over-indexed on um usage and the way that we communicate, the way that we communicate with each other, the kind of um in the cultural in-cultural lingo that we used, how the specific ways that we talk to each other, call and response, those types of things just really um helped to make the platform what it was. And now that a lot of us are not there anymore, it is not the same. But black people are still definitely engaging uh online, and you know, whether it comes to Instagram or Facebook, but particularly Instagram around some of these shows, there is still a lot of engagement that black people are engaging in, but it's just migrating to different places on the web and to different platforms.

SPEAKER_00 20:24

So it kind of sounds like um the larger trend in society of there not being a you know collective water cooler, so to speak, which was what Twitter was back in the day. It's like everyone is having their own curated experience on their the platform that they prefer, whether it's Instagram or I guess some people went to Blue Sky that left uh Twitter slash X, some people went to Threads, some people still use old school Facebook.

SPEAKER_01 20:52

So it sounds like there's not one dominant plat platform that's I mean, not from not from what I'm seeing, but one thing that I can say is I am seeing not only the audience, but also content creators use fake not Facebook, but Instagram in some really interesting ways. So, as you know, on Instagram you can go live and you can go live with up with up to four people. So there's this one Tyler Perry show. I don't know if you've seen it called Sisters that's on BET, right? And so that show has some really, really interesting ways of engaging with the audience. So we already know that, like, say if you're if you were tweeting during scandal and Carrie Washington tweeted back at you or reposted your tweet, like, oh, you just felt like you know, you've had that enhanced your experience, right? And it enhanced your connection to the show and probably your loyalty to her character or even to the actress. So what um what different content creators and and showrunners are doing now is using the video capability on Instagram to basically do the same thing. So, like maybe Tyler Pick. Is on the screen speaking with one of the actresses. And then another actress joins, and there are three of them on the screen, and they'll say, like, hey, who wants to go live with us? Who wants to go live? And then, like, the um the uh fans can kind of type, hey, I want to go live or request to go live. And then there will be like four of them on the screen. So you might be a huge fan of this show, and you find yourself on a video, live video chat with not only the creator, writer, director of the show, but also some of the actresses. So again, like we are still using social media in some innovative ways to connect with one another around some of these shows, but it's it's just different. And um, I don't know if you watched the show P Valley, which is one of my favorites, and I can't wait for it to come back. Hopefully this summer, fingers crossed. But um, Jay Alphonse Nicholson, who plays Lil Murder, he would always, every Sunday during the um the season when the show was out, he would just go live. He would just, I mean, no announcement, no predetermined set time, because that's one thing that folks are starting to do, like, hey, go live with us and talk about, you know, whatever the show is. But he would just like pop up and like, how y'all like this latest episode? It was something, wasn't it? Like, ooh, you know, just like with his cocktail and just on his porch, just you know, communicating directly with the audience and having these one-on-one conversations, commenting to the comments, you know, verbally and also typing back, but also inviting people to appear on screen with him. So, I mean, we're still doing this, it's just in a different way now on different platforms.

unknown 23:35

Right.

SPEAKER_00 23:36

So, something that I would like to ask you as a media studies professor is so many people feel overwhelmed by all the content that's out there. There's podcasts, there's all the different social media platforms, there's all the streaming services, and a lot of people feel overwhelmed by the the volatility in the world, you know, myself included. So, how do you stay responsible and kind of you know stay current on what's going on in the world without, you know, going down a whole bunch of rabbit holes and feeling overwhelmed, and then you just totally disengage because it's like I don't even want to look at the news because it's too disturbing. Is there is there a way you can kind of have a media diet that will you can stay informed without you know being overwhelmed 24-7?

SPEAKER_01 24:26

Yeah, so I think media diet is a really good term to use, Chris, because I mean I do think of media consumption in the same way, and I think we should be thinking about it in the same way that we think of food consumption, right? So we probably like pizza, we probably don't eat it every day because we don't need all that cheese, we don't need all that bread, we don't need all that pepperoni every day, maybe sometimes, but not all the time, right? So I know personally for myself, and I don't want to shade the shade room, but I actually stopped following the shade room earlier this year because I found myself paying too much attention to the comments because the comments are hilarious, and I think we all know that the real action, the real spice, dazzle, and sprinkle is in the comments. But I found myself paying attention to the comments too much, right? So I was like, you gotta, you just gotta stop following them because it's just too much, right? So um thinking about who you are following, why you are following them, and what kind of information do you actually need? Not the information that you want, but what do you need and what do you actually want to be looking at? Think about the kind of life you lead. I know for me, because I watch the news a lot, I read the news a lot because I have to stay up on the news because I teach journalism. My social media feed is on Instagram in particular, is carefully curated. I follow a lot of pretty black babies accounts, hilarious toddlers, like stuff like that, because that is what I want and need to see. I follow a lot of inspirational speakers. I follow a lot of comedians because those are the things that I feel like I need to see more of. I definitely still also follow um news accounts and not just mainstream corporate news accounts. I follow, you know, online news from um outlets that are uh owned and operated and center black people. I do the same for uh queer news and queer media and gender-focused and women-focused media. So I think it's really important for us to think about like, what do I want to see? What do I need to see? And what do I need more of, right? Because sometimes when we're thinking about our the body consumption, we know that, like, oh, I need to be drinking more water. So you make a conscious effort to drink more water. So if you know you're not taking in enough news, then find some reputable news outlets that you trust to follow. If you know that you are not seeing and experiencing enough joy, follow cute black babies like I do. So I but I do think it's important to really think about what you want to see because the algorithm is, and especially if you're clicking on a particular thing, the algorithm is going to notice that and it is going to feed you what it thinks you want. So it is important for us to really make sure that we are curating what we want and what we need so that it will the algorithm will feed us more of that kind of content.

SPEAKER_00 27:45

And how do you vet a source, whether it's a news source, you know, a lot of people have Substacks now? How do you vet those sources to know that they're credible? Because so many people, even celebrities, are spreading misinformation or uh saying things that that they heard somewhere that you know they haven't fact checked or whatever. How do you go about knowing, okay, this email from this so-called news source that popped up? I don't even know if I how did I I didn't even subscribe to it? How did they get my email address? How do you get those sources to know that they're credible?

SPEAKER_01 28:20

Well, and I think it's important to look at what they've done before, look at the kind of work that they've done, look at the training that some of the people have, look at the kind of content that they produce. And also, I think one thing that is important too, just I mean, even as journalists, we will go back and check, check our facts before we publish them, right? And I think that's something that the public should be doing more of too. Don't just see something online and then post it. Look back and see if this actually did happen first and check with a few sources before you actually do this. Because I remember when um Angie Stone died in that car accident, unfortunately, a couple of months ago, there was a lot of back and forth, like she's not dead, like, yes, she is, or she's not actually dead. Well, TMZ says she did. So, you know, they they're always on it, so you know they must be right. But at the same time, there was a video of her that was circulating on um TikTok where she was saying, like, you know, these folks are trying to kill me. I am not dead, y'all. I am not dead. Like, people, this is just another way of the industry, and folks who don't like me were are trying to count me out and different things like that. But people were not paying attention because that video was like three or four years old. So there were a lot of people who were like, I don't, I don't think that she is actually dead. They're just trying to slander her because she even said herself that she wasn't, but people were not paying attention to the fact that that was an old video. And even when the news outlets are reputable, people are just not reading or paying close attention. So we need to make sure that we're doing that because I've seen, and particularly on Facebook, Lord Jesus, I've seen people like really get upset and be strong and wrong and loud and strong and wrong. I remember someone posting, like, oh my god, Lena Horn just died. And I'm like, Y'all, she's been dead for like seven years. You know what I mean? Because they saw a headline but didn't actually click on the story to read the story, including the date that it was published. Right. So I just think people, because this is an environment where everybody thinks they are a journalist, and everybody thinks they have some privileged information that others need to know, it is important for everyone to become a fact-checker now.

SPEAKER_00 31:00

Absolutely. And another issue that I've personally run into consuming content is I want to support news organ, especially like you know, local media, because I know you know uh media is you know is struggling. A lot of you know, a lot of local newspapers are struggling. And I want to support other content creators, but it's just like there's only so many subscriptions that I you know I can afford. So how do you how do you decide who you're gonna support? There's actually a podcast that I really like that I love that uh the content creator has this option of uh buy me a coffee. You don't have to subscribe to my Patreon and pay me every single month. If you just want to, you know, send me a digital tip here and there or cash at me every now and then, you you can do that rather than having this ongoing subscription that is coming out of your account every month.

SPEAKER_01 31:52

Yeah. I mean, I think it depending on again the kind of news that people feel like they actually need, because I think that's what it comes down to, because I mean, we're living in a in an economic climate now where people don't have a lot of disposable income. So, I mean, just now, and I didn't realize it, but um I was just looking at my uh bank account. I didn't realize that my New York Times subscription was $29 a month. Right, right. I did I really didn't. And now to be honest, I'm rethinking that.

SPEAKER_00 32:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:25

To be honest, I thought I had it free anyway through the university. Yeah, so I'm like, why am I paying $29 for this? So honestly, in the next few days, I'm not gonna have that anymore because that's just no shade to the New York Times. Right, right, but $29, right? Okay, yeah, that's that's what the shade is too. But anyway, to make a long story short, um, for me, I mean, I I have subscribed, but again, I thought I had a free subscription through the school. But anyway, um, but even before that, that is a news outlet that I subscribed to because they did have some good stories and especially uh types of stories from different regions that I wanted to be aware of, right? So that's why I was subscribing to them um until like pretty soon. Um there is a new, well, it's probably maybe like three years old now, uh, an online outlet, nonprofit newsroom um called Capital B, and Capital B is in black. Um, and they focus on a lot of news that is geared toward black Americans and the black experience, and they do a really good job of political news that is beyond like the horse race, right? Beyond this is what the poll says, or this is you the the poll says this person might win, or or this person has this many votes, or this person is projected to do what to do well, and this person isn't. They do a really good job of showing how people are actually affected by policy, and it is black-owned, and that is important for me to support black-owned media. Um, there is a new um newsroom that came out called the Fly Trap, which is a feminist media newsroom. It is important for me to support feminist media, and I know some people who are really good journalists who are um who are backing that. So I think it really just depends on, you know, what what is important to you. I mean, because we might say, we often say, because I hear people say this all the time, like, man, I'm I miss BET news. You know, BET should have never closed their um their newsroom. And I remember the good old days of Ed Gordon and Jackie Reed, but y'all weren't watching it though. Y'all were not watching it. That's why they cut it because we weren't supporting it. So I'm not saying that we should be looking for like niche media that really geared toward what we already believe. But what I am saying is that we should be supporting the media that does report on our communities in ways that others don't. So that is what is important for me is trying to support the kind of media that I know that we as a society need and more of what I want to see.

SPEAKER_00 35:10

Right. So, one of my last questions for you is what is it like as a journalist now being on your book tour, out promoting your book, being on the other side and answering questions and interviews like this? What it, you know, what is it like having the tables turned?

SPEAKER_01 35:27

Um, I don't mind it, but I'll be honest, like because I am a really honest and frank person, I am always scared that I'm gonna say something that I shouldn't say and or that I'm going to cuss. So I just kind of, while people are asking me questions, I'm trying to relax myself and also answer the question in the most honest way possible that won't get me in trouble.

SPEAKER_00 35:53

Right, right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:55

Yeah, I do still have some more book talks coming up. And I'm really excited to do them because I mean, this, I really don't see myself as like really promoting myself or this book per se, but really what I'm trying to do is promote the work that black people have been doing, both in defense of our images and also online. Because when people talk about Black Twitter, they often talk about it as like this angry mob that is just canceling people for no reason, or just a bunch of jokes and frivolous chatter that's happening. But what black people have done when it comes to digital activism on Twitter and on social media across the board has been really phenomenal and culture and culture changing and really um has shifted society in some really important ways. And it deserved to be documented and it should have been documented. And I wanted to do it because I think that anytime that black people are resisting domination, whether it is on the streets holding picket signs or circulating petitions or even using some um social media posts and social media platforms to resist domination, I think it's important that it is documented. It's important that we document them now more than ever.

SPEAKER_00 37:10

Absolutely. Well, Sherry, thank you so much for your work and thanks again for making the time to speak with me. And hopefully we can catch up and hang out a little bit when you're here at the book festival.

SPEAKER_01 37:19

Yeah, thank thank you so much for having me, Chris. I I appreciate you asking me to talk about my work. But before we go, I also have to say I also appreciate you as a keeper of our stories because that is when we first met. It was when both of us were running around Columbus trying to get quotes and tell stories about our communities. And that's something that you have always done, whether it was through journalism or chronicling the important work that black women wrestlers have done. I mean, you have always been someone who has loved black people, loved our stories, and have done the best that you can to document what we do and why what we do is important. So I just want to thank you for that and give you your flowers right now.

SPEAKER_00 38:00

Well, thank you so much, Sherry. That really means a lot to me.

SPEAKER_01 38:03

You're welcome.

SPEAKER_00 38:11

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