Bill Schalliol Executive Director of Economic Development, St. Joseph County

Welcome to Inside the Region, the podcast from the South Bend Regional Chamber, where we bring you conversations with the leaders, innovators, and changemakers shaping our community.

Today we’re taking a closer look at the exciting momentum building across St. Joseph County.

Joining us is Bill Schalliol, Executive Director of Economic Development for St. Joseph County. Bill is at the center of many of the transformative projects happening throughout the region—from business growth and infrastructure to long-term planning that’s helping position the county for a strong and vibrant future.

In this episode, we’ll dive into the key developments underway, what they mean for residents and businesses, and how collaboration across the region is driving real progress.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:01

Welcome to Inside the Region, the podcast that explores the forces shaping our local economy. Being brought to you by Old National Bank, where relationships and results matter, discover what Old National Bank can do for you at OldNational.com. In each episode, we dive into the conversations driving business growth, investment, and innovation across the region. From major development projects and capital investments to workforce strategies, market trends, and data insights, we unpack what matters most to business and community leaders. Now here's your host, Director of Economic Development at the South Bend Regional Chamber, Allison Herzing.

SPEAKER_00 0:37

Welcome to Inside the Region, where we explore the issues shaping our economy and communities. Today we're joined by Bill Shalio, Executive Director of Economic Development for St. Joe County. Bill, thanks for being here. Hey, welcome, Alison. Thank you. Yeah, I'm excited to have you today. So I always just kind of start out and ask people like, how did you get into economic development? What is what's that pathway look like?

SPEAKER_02 1:01

Yeah, no, that's a great question. So I was born and raised in the area. Uh parents very involved in the community. My dad was the airport director for 30 plus years. So I grew up in a house where public service was really a big deal. Um loved to play with Legos, wanted to be an architect, wanted to go work for Lego. Uh, got rejected on both cases. Uh, apparently, you need to be able to do math for architecture and engineering. So uh went to Purdue, uh, liberal arts, uh, history, political science, uh, but along the way, had some great internships in the summer, with City of South Bend for a couple summers, Project Future for a summer, got exposed to public sector work, really thought that was something that was neat opportunity. First job out of school was with the City of Mishawaka. Uh, got to work with Jeff Ray. Uh, Jeff had known for a hundred years before that, but opportunity to work with Jeff, then went to the city of South Bend and then spent 10 plus years there, and then took a little life departure. Uh, had a midlife crisis at 35, went to law school and decided I wanted to be a lawyer. Uh, after a couple years of being a prosecutor, decided that wasn't as much fun. The county was looking for an economic development guy and uh uh had the opportunity to take that position. So, first person to ever hold that position, have been doing this since 2015.

SPEAKER_00 2:15

Yeah, I love that you have the law degree though, because it's so integral to what you're doing. So often there's, you know, contracts and MOUs and different things that, you know, having that background really kind of is critical, I feel like.

SPEAKER_02 2:31

It really helps, yeah, especially on the negotiation side. It just gives you a different way when you go through law school, you kind of learn a different way to think. And and so that was uh, you know, really has helped with some of the negotiations with some of these bigger, you know, people we're bringing into the community.

SPEAKER_00 2:45

Yeah, it's it's good to have um that in your back pocket to bring out, especially. And and having all of that economic development experience at different communities and then rolling up into the county really kind of helps you understand who the players are, who you need to talk to in Michael if there is something going on, if you need to talk about water and South Bend, you know, who that is, because you already know kind of the lay of the land.

SPEAKER_02 3:10

And and really kind of the the mental philosophy that each of those. I mean, obviously, Michaelka has kind of a way it does things. South Bend has a little different philosophy. And and then the county really, again, we we hadn't really been in the economic development space. So we're we're still kind of the baby of the group, so to speak, and and kind of chart in our own way. And and uh, but having great partners with uh City of Mishawaka, South Bend, the towns, uh all these other organizations, it's it's really been very helpful.

SPEAKER_00 3:37

Yeah, you kind of touched a little bit on economic development with the county and not being um, you know, you're the first to to bring up this uh flag. And you know, when you came on, um a lot of conversation's been happening out in the Indiana economic development, Indiana economic Indiana Enterprise. Enterprise. I just spent my week with IEDC, so they're just in my mind. Sorry. Um, so with that, that a lot of the um preliminary reports and survey and like that hadn't been done. And Jeff often tells a story that, you know, before um, you know, you guys would go out and talk to companies and you would just kind of say, I hope they can sell, and I'm pretty sure we can get, you know, this to happen and that and the zoning. And so you really kind of were the leader um in getting these um, you know, preliminary reports and and different analysis completed and zoning to make these larger projects that we're gonna talk about happen.

SPEAKER_02 4:37

Yeah. So, you know, kind of throughout Mishawak and South Bend time, we saw all the different pieces that had to come together so that you could put together a project. And then it was really uh we took a trip, uh, a number of us, a number of partners took a trip to North Carolina to make a pitch. And and we thought we knew what we were doing, we thought we had all the pieces. And it was uh, you know, the state pulled us aside after the meeting and said, You will never travel with the state again if you're not prepared. And and we made a decision that that day we were gonna get prepared. And it it it was uh a lot of work, a lot of money was spent, a lot of planning work. We brought in seven different consulting firms and ultimately 11 different firms work with us to put together the IEC plan, but it was all work that had to be done, and the return on investment is has certainly outweighed the uh the money spent on the front end.

SPEAKER_00 5:28

Yeah, and and and I will mention you did get some grief for that. Um and I look at the ROI, as you mentioned, and it it all um all warranted the the efforts that you made really kind of were the differentiator in um our community being able to have some of these larger projects here.

SPEAKER_02 5:46

Yeah, it again it was it was not an easy process. We we stumbled along the way many a times, and and again, we we were doing something different that just hadn't been done, and and certainly at the scale that we were proposing to do it. It was it was certainly a change in mindset. And uh the the IEC area where INTEC located back in the 80s, early 90s, uh, was an area prime for industrial development. It just the the table had not been set well. So there were pieces on the table, but but somebody just had to put them on together, and and we did that, and and again, kind of ugly along the way, but uh but I think it's gotten us some pretty good results.

SPEAKER_00 6:21

Yeah, and and it doesn't happen in a vacuum. You know, you are working with the utilities, the town of New Carlisle, the county, different um levels within the county as well, just the just across the board, you really need a massive coordination.

SPEAKER_02 6:37

Absolutely. And and we had never really been on the state's radar. And so working with the state and and the different levels there, and so many other partners like the chamber and just trying to put all those pieces together and get everybody, you know, kind of pointed in the same direction. And then once we did, it it really has it it's paid off and and paid off well.

SPEAKER_00 6:56

Yeah. Um, and and I want to thank you for those efforts because really we're now seeing kind of the the um the economic impact of some of these really large projects, and it's gonna be continuing out into the future. Before we get too far into the projects, I I did promise that I would ask you the, you know, what is the process, the schoolhouse rocks? If you could just kind of explain the whole thing, it can be a little bit confusing. There's multiple meetings, there's a couple different layers that go into it. What does it look like?

SPEAKER_02 7:24

Yeah, so many, so many different ways. So, like when we started out in New Carlisle, we had some of the tools in place. There was already a development area or a TIFF district, as people often call them. So we kind of had that tool in place already. But we went through and really started at the beginning and we said we needed zoning, and so we needed to make sure the zoning worked. And so we worked with our planning staff to make sure the zoning classifications worked. We had to do all sorts of property surveys and all this other pre-development work that we knew that we needed to have bundled up so that we could hand off to developers or or or just be ready when somebody came through the door to to give to them. But it was, I mean, in our case, it was almost a two and a half year process. And towards the end of the process uh is when we hit COVID. And so that kind of slowed things down a little bit, but also because everybody was kind of in a slow and and kind of a sheltered position, gave us kind of the opportunity to kind of put a bow on it so that when we when we came out the other side, that's when we really had a package that we were able to start pushing out there into the into the larger real estate community and starting to get our message out there.

SPEAKER_00 8:29

Yeah, and not just for the IEC, but in general, if a company is coming to our area, they've decided on a location, you're moving through the process. What's that first step? Is it yeah?

SPEAKER_02 8:40

The first step is making sure that the zoning works. And if and if the site doesn't work, then you got to go through a public process to get the zoning done. And at several meetings, several public meetings, uh, if the zoning does work, then you need to make sure the utilities will work. And if the utilities work, uh, you know, which the utilities generally are private, unless you're dealing with water or sewer and those are municipality controlled. So it's coordination there. There are so many levels of coordination that that take to make a project work. Um and and a project that's new to the area is is probably as complicated as reusing an existing building, depending on what the reuse is going to be. So it again, a lot of coordination between a lot of partners. And the and the thing is here, we're blessed with a lot of good partners.

SPEAKER_00 9:23

Yeah, and and um we have a really good group of individuals who have been in this for just you know long enough to have seen most potential bottlenecks, understand what's coming down the pipeline, know how to kind of pivot and um make sure that all of the different pieces are put together. Um so very much appreciative to the county and all of the partners for that. We we really do have a great team here. And I have found in in the you know six years I've been doing economic development at the chamber that when the call goes out for those partners to come together for a meeting with a company that's looking to our area, we all do everything we can to make sure that we're participating in those meetings, giving the information they need. Um, I cannot think of really too many, if at all, of someone saying, nope, just can't make it work. Because the we just recognize that that's what has to happen to bring jobs to our community. It's really about like, you know, how do we drive growth? How do we get, you know, tax revenues, jobs, keep a people, keep people employed in, you know, positions that are having higher wages, because we really do look at those wages.

SPEAKER_02 10:33

Oh, absolutely. And again, I think I think to your point, Allison, the key has been that we've got a lot of good people in a lot of good places. We've had a lot of those people have been in those positions for a good long time. But I I think the other thing, too, is we understand that it works best when it's regional. So if the project ends up in South Bend, we know Mishwaka people are gonna work there. If it's in the county, you know, people are gonna work there. You know, we we've got to work together. And so I think the more that we do, it and it really has paid off. That's not the way it's always been, but it certainly is the way I think we're we're headed.

SPEAKER_00 11:05

Yeah. We have looked at the zip codes of of workers and just trying to make sure we understand where our workforce is coming. And and, you know, I pretty common to say that we have about a 45 minute radius of where um employees come for our jobs in our county, regardless of where it is. And so often we, you know, it's not just St. Joe County, but we work within our neighbors as well, because um, you know, we want all Hoosiers to be employed, and we work really hard with that in mind.

SPEAKER_02 11:34

Aaron Powell Oh, absolutely. And I and I think some of these projects are really going to show that. Uh for example, we know that Amazon has hired a bunch of people already for their project. Uh 80% of the people that they've hired, over 900 people that they've hired already, are uh Hoosiers already. So it's you know, it's great to see people involved in in the projects here and and and being able to take advantage of those new opportunities.

SPEAKER_00 11:57

Aaron Powell Yeah, let's just take a moment and stay with um the AWS project because when that um you know development agreement came through and you guys worked real hard on that, um, there was a requirement on wages with that.

SPEAKER_02 12:09

Absolutely, yeah. So for for Amazon to take advantage of the enterprise technology exemption, which is really the the tax exemption on all the all the equipment and everything that actually runs the data center, uh, all of their employees had to be at a wage that was 125% above the county average wage. And and so every year that wage adjusts, and obviously the more uh uh more higher paying wage jobs we bring to the community, that number is going to continue to rise. So for them to be able to take advantage of this credit, and this is an 35-year credit that Amazon's been given, they've got to have over a thousand employees. So uh, you know, we get a lot of knocks on these data center projects that, you know, it just takes two guys in a truck to to maintain these data centers. But in fact, you know, Amazon is committed to to get this credit. Uh, it's got to have over a thousand employees, and and they're already over 900 at this point. And they only have just a just a fraction of the site operational.

SPEAKER_00 13:04

And you know, Indiana really set the table for everybody with this because, you know, as we look across, you know, oftentimes I look at all the different states and what they're doing, trying to understand how competitive are we and what can we do. And so really, if was it maybe 2018, 2017, 2017, 2018, yeah. The state, you know, really kind of said this is we want to start moving more towards these technology-driven um, you know, jobs. And so they did it, they did the um tax breaks. Can you talk a little bit about what that is?

SPEAKER_02 13:38

Yeah, absolutely. So again, the enterprise technology exemption is is a local credit, but also state credits on uh the equipment that they buy and then also the energy that they buy. So there's there's a lot of benefits to doing the data center projects in the state of Indiana. State was very much on the forefront to that. I think they had some people that that had a lot of vision at uh, you know, that saw that data centers were something that would come. I don't think anybody ever expected them to come at the the price tag that they come at uh as far as the the billion dollars and things like that. But but certainly I think the state recognized that these could be a big project, fill a gap that just uh wasn't being filled in the state. And and so got on the front end, have given lots of incentives, but at the same point in time, there's a lot of taxes still being paid based on those projects.

SPEAKER_00 14:24

And you know, staying with AWS, they are working very closely with Ivy Tech to ensure that they scale up local individuals um for these jobs. Can you expand on that a little bit?

SPEAKER_02 14:36

Oh, absolutely. I uh you know I've I've worked around Ivy Tech for 20 plus years. I've never seen Ivy Tech as as engaged as they are with uh with this AWS project and likely some of these other data center projects in the region. But Ivy Tech has really stepped up in a big way here for that project. And we anticipate the same when when GM comes to town, but they've created pathways, they've created specialized projects, uh, they're they're upskilling uh people in ways that that really get them uh you know to a next level salary position and and uh uh really have created some other positions like fiber splicer. This is this is one of these things that the data centers need, but also the the the broadband companies need and some of these other companies need. So they've created this pathway to teach you how to put fiber optic cables together. And it's you know, it's a 14 or 15 hour uh class, but at the end of the day, you come out of there with the opportunity with a certificate that gets you a pretty good wage and a lot of job opportunities in that field. So Ivy Top, again, really has stepped up in a way that really has filled in a short term that that uh wage creation opportunity and job creation opportunity for us.

SPEAKER_00 15:42

Yeah, and we had Indiana Michigan Power in here um doing a uh podcast, and they had talked about their need for the fiber optic um and the cable layers, and it's just really critical. It's a again, a high salary position. Um, and so individuals, you know, don't necessarily, if they go through this um training, uh, don't always end up at AWS. They may end up, as you mentioned, with you know, one of the broadband companies or fiber companies, um, our power company. And so it it's really nice that they're training for multiple organizations and really a need that is out there. And so with 15 hours of training, you come out with a very high-paying job, um, you know, comparatively just uh like our average um salary in our county is about $66,000. And and we're talking $75,000 jobs and um, in some cases, even more. And so um, you know, it it's really gonna help uh raise overall um the wages in the area, like you mentioned.

SPEAKER_02 16:45

Aaron Powell Yeah, I and I think that's what's exciting. Again, if you could take a 15-hour class and and create that kind of wage opportunity for yourself, I mean, that's a that's a huge boost. It it's not easy work, it's it's very technical, very tedious work, but it it it really opens up opportunities for people to really move themselves up the up the financial ladder.

SPEAKER_00 17:05

And that's what we're looking at. You know, what are the opportunities that we can provide to the community? Um, you know, when when we think of Indiana, a lot of times it's manufacturing is really um one of the the big thing powerhouse industries for, but in St. Joseph County, manufacturing is only 11% of our industry, medical um and education, not surprisingly, are really driving those um number one and two positions. And so, you know, um those different industries that you spoke about all support all of our industries in some way. If you're working for the utility or you're working for the data center that's providing the storage for all that information for those different organizations, you know, it it's something that kind of goes across the board for everyone.

SPEAKER_02 17:50

Yeah, absolutely. And again, these data center projects, I mean, right now we've got two on the table. Both will be high pay uh or high wage, and a lot of jobs will be some of our biggest uh employers by the time the projects are built out. But they really fill a good gap, really kind of a skills gap that maybe we had in the community. Also, it it helps us uh be a little bit more resilient as as we deal with, again, from a regional economy, how the the ups and downs of the economy work. AI is is obviously uh a lot to be determined with it, but but it really is certainly where things are going in a lot of regards.

SPEAKER_00 18:26

Aaron Powell Yeah, we had a a meeting um and uh uh Brandon Oyer from um AWS was there and and we're um and we're you know he was on a panel and we were discussing, you know, really what is a data center, like just breaking it down. And he and I believe you were there for it, and he had a great visual where he asked us all to kind of stand up, and then he said, I bet in three questions I can get this room to sit down. And he was right, you know, he he asked, you know, how many people, you know, I think it was like do online banking, and and probably 80, 90 percent of the people sat down in this room of over 200 individuals, and then it was, you know, okay, how many people watched football? And so then a few, you know, more. And then he's I think the final question was how many people stream videos or watch Netflix? Um, and that was it. The whole room sat down, and all of those are possible because of a data center. I think a lot of people just don't understand um, you know, how it how that really is part of the web of what we all are, not no pun intended. Um so anyway, I do want to just kind of take a moment to break down that project. It's an $11.5 billion project. Um would you give us a little bit more info? I know it's a long-term build.

SPEAKER_02 19:47

Yeah, absolutely. So when when AWS came to the community, they said we we really are looking for a thousand acres, and we had 700 acres on one site and said, well, we could probably find you another 300 acres at this other site, just north of the the newly announced GM project site. They took both. And so right now the northern site is the campus that's nearly finished, and it's it's got seven buildings up and operational, two more to be completed this year. Uh, the southern site uh is really broken down into two phases. The northern half of the southern site has nine buildings up, and and starting next week, parts of them will start to uh undergo testing and and start to move into that production phase. So uh, you know, here soon, by the end of the year, early into next year, we'll have 18 of the data centers up and running on the campus. Uh, and then they start building their southern half of their campus, and that'll start this year, and they're still working through site design, trying to figure out exactly how many data center shells they can fit on the site. They they're limited on the site by power. They only have so much power. And so, how do how do those buildings configure against the power allotment that they have? Um, we were told that this was a 15-year build and we're two years in and have half the campus built. So I don't think it's gonna take us 15 years to build this out, but it it has moved very quickly. We've invested a lot of time and energy in trying to get the project done right. We've uh put in about $100 million of utilities underground between water and sewer and and and other underground utilities. Uh we're starting to see some above-ground work that's gonna start this year, whether it's a water tower or uh uh road improvement, especially the two and Larrison intersection. So a lot of that work is gonna come over the next couple of years to to make it so you can get it in in and out of the site. But it really has been an amazing project. Again, a lot of a lot of local partners, a lot of national partners have come together to really make this work. But again, it's gonna be one of our biggest employers probably in the in the county by the time it's said and done.

SPEAKER_00 21:45

Yeah, and I want to make sure I point out that AWS is um paying uh for those installations that you just referenced.

SPEAKER_02 21:54

Absolutely. Yeah. So uh when we started both the GM project and the AWS project, we we found a pathway. Uh and and really set it up so that all the utility work and road work and everything would be paid by the companies. So uh uh GM has a $50 million bond that they're paying off to do utility work. And then AWS put originally in $114 million for utilities. Uh we anticipate that they're probably gonna put another $20 to $25 million in for additional road work and stuff like that. So uh the taxpayers themselves have put in very little money into the into the projects and they're getting an amazing amount of return for for that just from a utility development standpoint. Those projects themselves not only power those sites, but then also open open up hundreds of other acres for additional development.

SPEAKER_00 22:38

Yeah, we're coming up in our final few minutes here, and and I'm realizing we might need to have you come back and talk about a couple other projects because we have really spent a lot of time kind of setting the stage, setting the table on this conversation. But you know, as you're looking for, let's just stay out with the AWS project, out in that area. Where where you know, what do you see?

SPEAKER_02 22:57

Well, I I think the next piece is in and we're hoping to hear some big announcements about what'll what'll happen with the GM project. We're we're anticipating end of first quarter, early second quarter, understanding a little bit more where that project goes. Uh that'll open up the opportunity for suppliers and and other spin-off businesses for that project. Uh, you know, we're we're curious long term what the opportunities are with AWS. Is it going to be an insulated insular campus, uh, not bringing in other people, or will there be some spin-off businesses, RD or office or other things that that come because of that project? So I really think as we look at the IEC and kind of that western St. Joe County area, we still anticipate probably another 10 years of growth out in that area. I'm sure the residents would would would be a little nervous when we say that, but uh, you know, it's going to bring new restaurants, it's going to bring new housing, it's it's going to bring a lot of opportunities, but a lot of tax revenue and some other things to support all that growth. So we really, really, really see that that area is poised well. And and again, as as we look at the IC and what the city of South Bend's doing and the growth at the airport and the Midwest Continental Divide trail corridor, kind of in the middle of all that, there's a lot of really amazing pieces coming together and will really make uh certainly Western St. Joe County very dynamic over the next 20, 30 years.

SPEAKER_00 24:13

Well, Bill, thanks for being here. We're gonna have to bring you back to talk eastern St. Joe County because there's a lot going on over there. Appreciate your time today.

SPEAKER_02 24:20

No problem. It's been great to be here, and and uh we're we're just excited about all the partnerships and how this all comes together.

SPEAKER_01 24:26

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