Brain of Command Episode 9

Not everybody is born to be a comedian, nor do you need to be. But a little bit of
genuine humor can go a long way to build connections.
In this episode of Brain of Command, Omaha Steaks President and CEO Nate Rempe
and Robert Reiss of CEO Forum Group are joined by Andrew Robertson, Chairman of
BBDO Worldwide, to discuss why humor is such an influential tool and how to be just
funny enough.
You’ll learn:
 Why it’s important to use humor like a fader – not an on/off switch
 How to check the temperature of the room
 The difference between humor that divides and humor that connects
 How a sprinkle of narcissism and self-deprecation can land as charisma
Use too little and you can come across as stiff and overly corporate. Use too much and
you can sound unserious or inappropriate. This episode will help you understand how to
Be Just Funny Enough.
Listen to Brain of Command on your favorite podcast platform → [link]
Make sure to subscribe for more conversations on leadership, influence, and the minds
behind great organizations.
Get the Free Brain of Command Companion Guide: www.omahasteaks.com/podcast
#Leadership #NateRempe #BrainOfCommand #CEOForum

• How did an introverted programmer go from writing code to taking the reins as CEO at one of America’s most iconic brands? Well, that’s exactly what Omaha Steaks CEO Nate Rempe did. And he’s partnering with co-host Robert Reiss, founder of CEO Forum Group, along with other industry-leading CEOs to talk about the strategies and insights that will help YOU command a room, command your career, and maybe even command a company. Brain of Command is all about dynamic, transformative leadership – no matter where you are on the org chart – and brings you practical hacks that you can put into practice every day to maximize your potential.

Brain of Command Companion Guide: https://view.publitas.com/omaha-steak-others/brain-of-command/

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:02

How did a once introverted programmer go from coding in a cubicle to leading an iconic American brand? Well, that's exactly what Omaha Stakes CEO Nate Rempe did. And along with CEO Forum Group founder Robert Reese, they're your inside source for magical hacks that will transform the way you command a room, command your career, and maybe even command a company. Get ready. This is Brain of Command.

SPEAKER_02 0:29

Okay, this is Robert Reese, and I'm with Nate Rempe. And we're we're talking today about a concept called Just Funny Enough. Now wait till you see who our guest is going to be. But I have to tell you, Nate, out of all of your leadership hacks, this is one of the most nuanced, one of the ones that's easiest to get wrong. Explain and really tee up what it means.

SPEAKER_01 0:53

Yeah, thanks, Robert. And thanks everyone for joining. What we're really talking about today is really finding the sort of mastering the use of writing the fader. Writing the humor fader.

SPEAKER_02 1:06

Well said. And our guest is none other than Andrew Robertson, who many people know for two decades. He was the um he was the CEO of BBDO, he's the chairman, he's in the advertising hall of fame. He has this incredible new book out called The Creative Shift, but he understands all of this nuance, also from a personal level, because he has a great sense of humor. But so, Andrew, welcome to the show and weigh in. What are your thoughts?

SPEAKER_03 1:38

Thank you. So I I I love I love the idea. Um, I mean it it's interesting. I I did a I did a presentation a couple of years ago called But Seriously Though, folks, which was my appeal to get humor back into advertising. Because if you you look at the data, it's declined progressively over the last 20 years. The use of humor has declined. And there's so much compelling data, so much compelling data that shows just how effective humor is in helping us sell things. And and really, there's no difference in changing people's minds in a company when you're trying to get them to do something than there is when you're advertising somebody and you're trying to get them to buy something. It's this, it's you know, the behavior shift that you're after may be different, but the principles are the same. And so I so I totally buy into it. The thing I wanted to understand a little bit, um, is when you talk about the fader, and and I think what happens if I'm right, I don't play a musical instrument, but like in the course of one song, you might take it up and then take it down and then take it up again. And so can you talk a little bit about how you see humor being used, not at a, if you like, at an absolute level on the fader, but how you move it during the course of a song.

SPEAKER_01 2:56

Folks, we did not plan this is not a planned question. In fact, this is exactly, Andrew, great, great lead-in. So here's the really interesting thing about humor, and and wait for it. It's a real-time feedback instrument. Uh I mean, arguably, maybe the only communication tool that immediately tells you how well you're connecting. Like, think like, you know, a smirk, you know, a chuckle, even silence, you know, something doesn't hit. Uh, these are like instant analytics on psychological safety, you know, attention, and trust. And so I, you know, knowing how to take that feedback and adjust the fader, it's not really something you can, you know, read in a book and then apply. You have to put yourself in that situation and you have to be able to read your audience. And look, this skill of know your audience, react to your audience is is a great skill on many levels. But certainly when you're going to apply humor in a professional setting, having that, you know, working that fader, seeing how things are hitting, and adjusting that, knowing your audience is going to make the level of humor ultimately correct for the situation. And that, Andrew, at the at the lowest level is really what we're talking about today, which is making adjustments. So spot on.

SPEAKER_03 4:19

Right. That's that's pretty. So talk talk a little bit about how you go about it.

SPEAKER_01 4:25

I think people say be funny. Being funny, right. I mean, you know, it is a little bit for for many people, it is a little bit manufactured. Um, you know, and and that's fine. Uh and one of the hacks, you know, we talked about something called intentional deja vu, which is really about being intentional and planning and seeing yourself in situations where you know you are funny. Um, and testing is a big deal, right? So try things, you know. And I think for people, fear is a is an aspect that holds them back uh, you know, from be putting themselves out there. Uh, and so I think it really is this idea of test the waters and keep your hand on that fader. And you know, you can really start small and see the impact and increase that and and get a feel for how it's giving you an advantage in a conversation, in a leadership situation to drive influence or outcome. And if you're getting the types of results that you want, lean in a little bit more. I mean, it certainly is this over a long period of time calibration process. Like anything in life, it's it's always too much or too little, right? Yeah. And and the problem is, is on the too much side, it's catastrophic. And and and I, you know, I think I think the tendency is to apply too much. Uh, and then at which at which point you you either look manufactured or um inappropriate. These are the types of things that you really have to watch out for, which is why the fader concept is important, and to apply that volume in a you know sort of measured way.

SPEAKER_03 6:04

And I I I I think that um if I just think of the interactions that you have with your team or with customers or whoever else you're you're having you're engaging with, um I I guess if there was, and there isn't a formula, but the one thing that definitely works is using some humour early on to make everybody feel good and relax. And then you can become really quite serious about whatever it is that you're trying to do. Um because once you've got what usually you know you're trying to overcome either resistance or fear. Um, and if you and making people feel good and making them smile and even laugh is the most disarming thing that there is that you can do in order to set up something more um fabulous. I when I was a when I was a student, one of the jobs I had was selling vax vacuum cleaners door to door. Vax was like it was pre-Dyson, it was a machine that had been developed by a dairy farmer who figured out that he could um he could create a vacuum with much more powerful suction by adapting one of his milking machines. And they were really good vacuum cleaners, but they but they weighed 80 pounds and cost$300. So it was it was not an easy sell to make. And one of the things I learned was people were basically happy with their existing vacuum cleaners, and the only way you could get them to consider spending all this money for a new vacuum cleaner was to demonstrate that something they thought was clean wasn't. Um and the best demo by far was a mattress. If I could if I could just show them how much dirt the vax sucked out of their mattress, because nobody wants to sleep think they're sleeping on that.

SPEAKER_01 7:53

You had them, you had them at that, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:55

It was a 90% conversion, 90% conversion if I could just get to the mattress. Uh and I used to I used to ring the doorbell. I was walking around with this machine door but door to door. I would ring the doorbell, and the door would be open, usually by in those days, a woman, and I would say, uh, my name's Andrew Roberts, and I'm representing the um Vax Vacuum Company. Can we go up to your bedroom? And most of the time they would laugh. Occasionally they would say most of the time they would laugh. And if they laughed, there was a really there was a 90% chance I'd be able to sell, I'd be able to sell the VAX.

SPEAKER_01 8:34

That's what I'm talking about. You know, it really is it's that disarming, it allows people to open up a little bit, and and it is that open opening up that creates an opportunity to influence. And at the end of the day, that's what we're really talking about here.

SPEAKER_02 8:49

Well, I'm I'm gonna throw in a word, which is um, let's say arrogance or narcissism, because you will say, Nate, you've told me that there are ways that in humor you should throw a little bit of that in, right?

SPEAKER_01 9:02

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, look, I think you know self-deprecation is, you know, I think a lot a lot of times where where you go, right? To to uh bring yourself down, maybe humanize the situation. Um, but in contrast, there's also opportunities to to drive confidence uh in others. And I think that's where that's where narcissism, narcissism comes into play. Um if you have disarmed the situation, you can actually drive confidence through using humor to, in effect, self-promote. Um and and it becomes interestingly acceptable. Um, you know, in society, self-promotion tends to uh not necessarily be well accepted, except if it's wrapped in this special gift of humor. Uh it it does it does land a little bit better. And I think it is all it is all around the delivery, uh, which is why I think Andrew is uh is the perfect uh sort of subject matter expert here as we talk about delivery, we talk about the fader. Um there's even this concept of temperature, which is like, you know, when trust in a room, which is really what you're trying to gain, is cold, you know, humor warns the room. And when trust is high, humor maintains the room. And when it's overused, everything overheats. And so uh, Andrew, I would love to hear from you just about this idea of, you know, and in BBDO, you know, humor defines your culture, you know, advertise trying to get humor back into advertising. What is the method by which you ensure that it's not that sarcasm and chaos, whether that's in your culture or in the products and advertising spots that you create or campaigns for your customers, how do you balance that and and and transfer that to the discussion about the fader in the humor, you know, in our in our audiences?

SPEAKER_03 10:46

Um, I mean, I will say that um I think if I separate the two things, how we work internally and how we either consciously or more likely unconsciously, non-consciously use humor versus how we try to use humor in the work that we do for our for our clients. Um on the former, you know, I've always just believed that um at the same point, people who are feeling good and energized will have better ideas and work better.

SPEAKER_02 11:20

Very good. Okay, and we're taking a commercial break, and when we come back, we're going to hear about sarcasm. Also, you have this great story, Andrew, about a you know how CEOs operate and one CEO in Australia in a bank. And if you don't mind sharing that story when we come back to back in a few. You wanna know how I end every day with a win? Omaha Steaks. From fast and easy weekend dinners to getting back out there for spring grilling, Omaha Stakes always has me covered with a quality and convenience I just can't find anywhere else. And every order is backed by a 100% guarantee. No planning, no prep, just handcrafted, one-of-a-kind perfection that's ready when you are and shipped seriously fast to your door. It's why Omaha Stakes has been trusted by professional chefs, families across America, and executives like me for more than a century. Don't wait. Visit OmahaStakes.com and discover a smarter way to shop. Plus, get$35 off with the code CEO at checkout. Terms apply. See site for details. Hi, we are back on Brain of Command, and we're talking about one of the most nuanced, challenging elements of leadership, which is humor and doing it the right way. And right now we're we're speaking, Nate and I, with Andrew Robertson, who is uh in the Advertising Hall of Fame, one of the all-time greats. He could also talk about his book, The Creative Shift. It talks about it bringing creativity into a company. But humor, it gets people on the same page in a way. If you speak the same language and you do the same humor, you immediately connect with people. I remember one CEO, he had a very quirky sense of humor, but I somehow picked up what it was and I made a few comments like that, and he loved it. And it connects us four levels quicker than it ever had. But Andrew, you're about to talk about like cynicism and all that good stuff, right? Let's hear.

SPEAKER_03 13:47

Yeah, well, actually, I think interestingly, I mentioned earlier that the use of humor has declined in advertising. I think one of the reasons it's declined is people are very anxious uh not to cause offense. That's understandable. So my observation would be you don't have to be sarcastic or cynical or mean to be funny. And if you look at comedians and how they work, there are some that that that is their entire shtick. That's how they make people laugh, is by being mean or nasty. Whereas there are others who I think are just incredibly funny without ever having to be mean or nasty about anything or anybody. It's just harder. If I take from the world of comedy, I can compare Nate Bargatsy, who I think is unbelievably funny and never has easy. Hilarious. Anything mean or nasty to say about anybody.

SPEAKER_01 14:39

Right.

SPEAKER_03 14:40

And you can compare him with Ricky Gervais, who I also have to think is very funny, but who a lot of people find very offensive, that you know, I I'm saying let's go for the Nate. Let's try and find a way to be like Nate rather than than Ricky. Because if you make half your audience laugh and half your audience squirm, that's not going to be good for business, it's not going to be good for leadership, it's not going to be good for advertising. And I'm sure it's the same when you're when you're dealing with the team. There is a way to be funny that doesn't require you to be nasty.

SPEAKER_02 15:10

I love that. Nate, do you like be like Nate?

SPEAKER_01 15:13

Yeah, I actually saw Nate Bargatsy just a few weeks ago. And, you know, it's this idea of the emergence of clean comedy, which I think comes as a as uh a result of what you talk about, Andrew, which is everybody's just a little bit too serious these days. And I think that's why he has really been as successful because his comedy hits on all audiences. Uh and it's absolutely transferable here on a couple of levels. One is like just delivery, right? Like what makes Nate great is his delivery and and his uh you know, just the mannerisms that that seem to just connect with the average person. And at the end of the day, that's really, you know, when you're in the boardroom, when you're in the meeting room, when you're when you're speaking to your team, you know, you need to connect with every one of them on a human level. And and that is really about delivery, that's about you know the method of comedy. You know, if you're gonna self-deprecate, that's fine. In some sense, I I think that's okay because Nate does that as well as an example. Um but you know, being in a fifth generation family business, you know, 107 years old, uh we have people that have worked at this company for 35 or 40 years, and then we have you know Gen Z in the same meeting. And so it's just really an interesting thing when you're thinking about the fader and you're thinking about the the proverbial thermostat, you know, cooling, heating the room. It's like, you know, you can start to think, man, to yourself, you can start to think, this sound all sounds really too complicated. Um, you know, how am I to do this? How am I to get effective at it? And I think two things come to mind. One is watching watching someone that's really good at it and and being aware that they're good at it can help you um almost imitate in that way. Um and then remembering, you know, and folks listening, you know, remember you don't have to to walk into the room and be the master on day one. You know, like get some reps. I mean, reps are good in so many ways, you know, the you know, 10,000 hours of anything and you're a master. So, but you gotta start somewhere. Uh and I think uh and I just love the the analogy between uh Ricky and Nate and and and how different that contrast is, and that we're really talking more about swinging to the side of Nate.

SPEAKER_03 17:26

Correct. It can be a great way to get noticed when you I mean I my wife and I were at dinner once and we left, and there was a homeless guy out on the street. He said, you know, I've done three tours of Afghanistan and I'm homeless. And I was reaching into my pocket to get some money to give him. And then he said to my wife, Do you know what the best thing about sleeping with a homeless guy is? She said, And he said, he said, uh, when we're done, you can drop me off anywhere.

SPEAKER_01 18:04

That is hilarious.

SPEAKER_03 18:06

Oh my god. And I literally, I literally emptied my pocket. I took every dollar that I had because he just made me feel so fantastic in a moment which could have felt, you know, it was gonna be a downer. It was gonna be a downer, it was gonna be, oh, the guy's hunger. And he just turned it around like that. And instead of getting 10 bucks, he got 240 or something like that.

SPEAKER_02 18:28

So, what Andrew's saying, it connects people faster than anything. I want to ask you, as a global CEO, I mean, you have like 15,000 people or something, you have seen it, and you don't have to give names. Are there ever examples when someone used humor the right way, either in a big group or one-on-one, and it just connected you faster with them? Or is there ever an example of someone who used it in an inappropriate way where maybe it was derogatory against someone and it just turned you off?

SPEAKER_03 19:01

I mean, I there are there are so many things where, like I said, in in my day-to-day interactions, I'm I'm lucky because it's it's kind of the currency that a lot of us spend our lives working in. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I will tell you of Jeff ML, when he was when he was early on in his tenure as CEO of GE, we were gonna uh get rid of the line, we bring good things to life and and replace it with imagination work. And we bring good things to life was associated with Jack Welsh, and and this was you know for a new era, GE. And I I was having this meeting with Jeff, and I said to him, obviously, you know, one of the things that's gonna come up is your decision to kill off Jack's line, and we just need to be prepared for that. And he said, Well, we're not actually gonna kill it, we're just gonna retire it, but it's still gonna have use of the company jets and the Yankees seats, which was and it was it was he was so good at that. It was exactly what I think. He's so good at finding that moment.

SPEAKER_01 20:09

Uh and I think all of us could frankly use a little bit more humor in life, regardless.

SPEAKER_03 20:14

There's uh clear data that as a uh the world is becoming more and more miserable. Lots of data about that. So I as I said to people, if you really want a purpose in life, how about making them smile? Because that's what we need more than anything. Boy, isn't that right?

SPEAKER_01 20:32

Isn't that right?

SPEAKER_02 20:34

And on that note, I want to thank you, Andrew, for being a great guest. And behalf of Nate and I, you you know, it's it it's a great concept you just threw out because when we're talking about just funny enough, you could calculate the downside risk of anything. And that's how you look at it. You will hear more from Nate on the specifics of how to be just funny enough, but great having you all listening to this show.

SPEAKER_01 21:00

That's right. Don't forget you can download the companion guide at OmahaStakes.com front slash podcast to learn more about how to be just funny enough.

SPEAKER_00 21:14

A well-timed joke sprinkled with touches of self-deprecation and narcissism in equal measure can go a long way to ease tensions and build trust when used effectively. But be mindful of the situation and always read the room. For more on today's hack, download the free Brain of Command Companion Guide at OmahaStakes.comslash podcast. Join us next time when we discuss what it means to be shallow and wide at the top. And don't forget to like, subscribe, and tell your colleagues that you're hacking your career with Brain of Command.