EP10: The Arts In Education (feat. Headteacher Michael Doyle)

⭐ Episode 10 of The Select Podcast is here! ⭐

This month, David sits down with Michael Doyle, Headteacher of Buckingham Prep and a leading educationalist, for a powerful and essential conversation about the vital role creativity plays in the classroom, breaking down barriers, and fighting for the future of the arts.

In this episode, David chats with Michael about:

• The Journey: From how Michael first started out to where he is now, bringing passion and innovation to the educational landscape.
• Creativity in Education: How integrating creative outlets directly benefits and enriches school environments.
• Boys in the Performing Arts: Shattering outdated gender stereotypes and encouraging more young men to take the stage.
• The Balancing Act: A deep dive into the ongoing debate of academic subjects versus creative subjects, and why they need to coexist.
• A Brand New Segment: "The Boardroom Challenge" — In a Dragons' Den style showdown, David steps into the role of the Board of Regents looking to cut arts funding, leaving Michael to pitch exactly why the arts are too crucial to lose! 💼🔥
• Bonus Segment with Lauren! — Stick around for a special catch-up with the CEO and Director of Select, as she and Michael look back on how they know each other and chat about what it was like stepping into the podcast studio today! 👑✨

Whether you are an educator, a student navigating your choices, or a parent advocating for your child's creative future, this episode is a must-listen.

🎙️ New Episodes Every Month! — be inspired, dream big, and celebrate the power of performance!

Each episode features conversations with teachers, facilitators, and industry professionals, offering insights into the creative process, performance tips, and the journey from how they started to where they are now! Discover how you can support your child’s growth at home, build their confidence, and nurture their creativity. Whether you’re an aspiring performer, a proud parent, or simply a lover of the arts, this is your all-access pass to stories and the heart of people at the centre of the entertainment industry! 🎭

#TheSelectPodcast #BuckinghamPrep #CreativeEducation #BoysInDance #BoysInTheatre #ArtsEducation #DragonsDen #PerformingArts #NewEpisode #Educationalist

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:13

Hello and welcome to the next episode of the Select Podcast. My name is Mr. David. Today we have a very special guest in with us. We have Michael Doyle, who is the head teacher at Bookingham Prep, which is one of our lovely schools where we offer our after school clubs. Michael, thanks for joining us.

SPEAKER_01 0:30

Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_00 0:31

So tell me a bit about you, Michael. How did you get into the world of education?

SPEAKER_01 0:36

So education, it was never something I wanted to do. I actually, growing up, really had my eyes set on being a lawyer. Yeah, and I did it, I did a week's work at a court and I really didn't like it. So my sixth-form lead at the time sort of said to me, Oh, you know, let's fill your time with somebody else, and just guided me towards working with some children to keep me busy. And it went went out really well, and I sort of never really looked back. So it was kind of like a really nice moment there where somebody said, I'll just give it a go, and it all worked out really nice for me. And then I somehow ended up um go juni, doing my teaching degree, uh working at Buckingham Prep, and then becoming the head teacher. So it is strange, but nice. I really love it.

SPEAKER_00 1:14

Wow, that's amazing. I I I think you kind of fall into it, don't you? It's like, I mean, even at Select, I wanted to do performance and then realised actually it's not kind of for me. I want to facilitate young people and get them to do it instead.

SPEAKER_01 1:30

Yeah, and that's the thing, is I never sort of looked at education as the career that I wanted to go into when you're when I was about 13, 14, 50. But no, I don't think anybody would. And then suddenly when I was working with people and seeing sort of how beneficial it was and how much time you were given and the benefits that came back from it. I think I just started off helping a group of year six uh children with maths. Um I was really good at maths. There you go. Um and then suddenly having that sort of moment the whole time of people realizing and discovering that they can do everything that they thought they couldn't, yeah, it all just all just rolled down really nicely for me.

SPEAKER_00 2:03

I love that. I really love that. Tell me a bit more about Booking and Prep then. When did you start working at Booking and Prep? And did you go in straight for the head teacher role? Oh no, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_01 2:13

Um so um I started working at Booking and Prep. I think it was around about January 2017, it was about nine years ago. Um, and I sort of went for my interview, it was a head of a lower school role, um, which was sort of my my background was early years in key stage one. Um, got the job, stayed there, you know, for a really long time, um, and just slowly sort of worked my way through various jobs. I've been the head of lower school, I've been uh the deputy head pastoral, um, and then the head teacher at the time, she was uh leaving, and it was that moment of you know, do I want somebody else to come and take my school? Because it felt really like my school, yeah, um, or do I just throw my hat in the ring and and and hope for the best? And having the passion for the children who were there in the building and you know, all the stuff, I think worked in my favour. So um I've been running the school now for four years. Wow. Um, and it yeah, it's been a really busy four years. It doesn't feel like four years, it feels like it's gone so quick. Yeah, it happens in seconds, doesn't it? Yeah, but I know I love it, I really, really enjoy it.

SPEAKER_00 3:12

So today I wanted to talk a bit about the difference between academic subjects and creative subjects. I know that when I was at school, I was lucky enough to be able to do those subjects and do drama and singing and all that kind of stuff, but I know that now that's not necessarily the case. I read somewhere earlier that 83% of schools in the UK don't allow for a dance GCSE, and I think that's just crazy to me because it's so important, like especially being creative and well, I mean, I'm working up from an art school, so you can see how how much I like it. Often I think in that in that respect, sometimes creative subjects are viewed as lesser or not as important as academic subjects, and I think that parents also pass on that kind of generational ideology. How what would you say if a parent was worried that like doing more creative things or being doing more arts subjects would distract from academic success? Like, how would you what would you say?

SPEAKER_01 4:14

Yeah, I suppose that is that is a thought. I'm really lucky um in my school to have parents who really want the best for the boys. It is a boy school. So when I talk about boys, that's sort of just a reminder. Um, parents who really want the most for their boys in all areas, and you know, based on your sort of parental view, there are wavering decisions about what you want to make and what time and effort you want to put into. But also depending on the children as well, it depends on what you know what is it that they want, what they're going to enjoy. I very rarely have to have lots of discussions, but when I do, it is something that comes across um sort of quite clearly. So something we talk about a lot at Backenham Prep is about confidence. So we talk about confidence, we talk about the whole child. We know being in North West London, being in a grammar school area, there is the real academic push. Um there's a real push for boys to go to selective independent schools as well, who have a whole range of tests which completely differ to what you'd expect just in English and maths. So it's about finding that balance, you know, what do what can we do to make sure the boys get their next steps for what their parents want, but how else can we include other areas in there? One of the major things we discussed with parents is it's great, you know, English and maths across the board. I mean, any sort of discussion with um to go on to sort of BBC politics and look at type in education, you'll see that's the key point that MPs often talk about is English, maths, science, computing. But what do we have to sort of explain to our parents is uh the confidence behind that. And you know, if there's an area that your son's doing really well in, let's say it's English, at some point there's going to be, let's say, a presentation that he's gonna have to do. There's gonna have to be some understanding behind the concept of character feeling, some understanding behind um why different characters have made different decisions. If you're looking at sort of fiction work, why has a language been used in a way to um what's the word? To portray or to try and convince you something, you know, if you read a news article, and that's a lot of the time where I feel the performing arts feed in because words are just there, and you know, the children need to understand when they read them the intonation behind them, they need to understand the body language that would be used. Um my year sixes do a really uh lovely unit um all about Britain during World War I and World War II, and there's a lot of intense um feeling behind some of the speeches they listen to and some of that context. And if they're just written down, it's really hard to figure that out. Whereas if the children have the chance to explore that in a way that's sort of more holistic, be able to explore it with their bodies, with the changes of their voice, being able to explore it through um sort of poetry and music, they kind of understand the feeling about why people said certain things or why people would have felt a certain way.

SPEAKER_00 7:07

Yeah, it's interesting you mentioned that actually because at university I did a we had to do like a collaboration pro um programme where we'd all get put into groups and then one person would say, This is a great idea for a musical, and we had to kind of devise it all together. And one of the pieces that we did was uh musical based on letters during World War II. And so it was really interesting having to try almost transfer the because we did it based on letters, so the actual written material, transferring that into actual, you know, poetry, like you say, uh m songs, speech, uh scenes, all that kind of stuff. So yeah, I think it's I think it's super important because it I feel like it allows like a completely new world.

SPEAKER_01 7:49

I mean it's it's another skill set on top of that. So we did, I think my year fives, um, they were watching some videos um about Martin Luther King. I think we're doing some work around people who change the world. Um, and I was saying to the boys, you need to pick, let's, you know, pick something that you think would be a good idea to change the world. And I want you to write a speech about it. Um, with the very clear view to them that I wasn't marking any grammar, I wasn't marking any punctuation. I said, but you know, after next week at the end of the lesson, we're gonna read those out and I'll give you some feedback on how you presented and how much you were able to convince me. And there was a range of things, you know, some of the boys saying, No, I can change the world by having absolutely no homework. That's always a always a very popular choice. Yeah. Um, some of them who sort of say, you know, we want to be able to walk to school every day, some who were saying that we don't want books anymore, we want tech. There was a real range of things. But what was really interesting was some of the children who were a lot more sort of wary when it comes to writing, because they knew there was no um there was no stakes there with what they were going to write. It was all about how they're going to present it. They did so well. Yeah, and that's because when you look at those children and the background they'd had, lots of them had performing backgrounds, lots of them had had the chance to speak at festivals, had the chance to speak in front of people. They may not have had the language that they wanted to use that some of the other audience may have had, but they were able to convince you in the way they use their body, the way they changed their voice. It was, it was really fascinating to watch. Um, sadly, I didn't implement many of the things that they wanted me to do. Um, but you know, I can I can save that for next year.

SPEAKER_00 9:18

That's absolutely fine. Definitely. That actually links perfectly into my next question, which was have you seen any cases where creativity allows children to unlock confidence in the academic subjects, like you say? Yeah, there's a whole range of things.

SPEAKER_01 9:34

We're we're quite lucky to have I've worked, you know, over my sort of all my entire time in schools with some really fantastic teachers. Yeah. And you know, the beauty of teaching is if something isn't working, you've got to find another way. Um, you know, that if you need the children to know their times tables, that's a really basic one. You know, it's not they can't just sit and stare at a poster, you can do it visually, you can do it um orally, there's also different ways. And I had a wonderful teacher a few years back, and she devised a rap for the boys, and I think it was the sevens. The sevens are notoriously hard, yeah. Um, and she did this amazing rap with them where they were able to go home, she filmed it for them, and they revised that, you know, over the week, and they all came back the next week. And you know, we could ask them the sort of different times tables just sort of off the cuff, and you could see some of them it'd already sunk in, they knew what they were. Some of them would stop. You could you could see them running through the sort of rap and the performance. I can't remember the rap, so I can't perform before. Sadly, not today. Um, but that really worked for those children, and it was fantastic. And then as we have some children who, especially nowadays, really struggle with sort of anxiety and emotional needs, and you see when they join you, there is that element of how are we gonna help you with your confidence and how are we gonna help you in this way? And I'm quite lucky to have worked with with Select, and we've we've had sort of dance classes, we've had musical theatre classes. Lauren has come in before and she's done entire sort of dance dates for the entire school. And some of those boys who in the classroom, when they think everyone's looking at them, yeah, um, would be a bit more shy when it comes to being in a room where everyone's moving around, you know, doing things that they they feel they can't always do at a desk, yeah. They really come into their own, and then that slowly permeates through everything else. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:23

So it's fantastic to see. That's it. It's like that vulnerability, isn't it? It's like when they when they get into that space where they no longer feel vulnerable, of like, I because right, so when if you if you're not good at something, you don't really want to do it again, right? Yeah. But then when you're learning these skills and you and you're developing, especially in school, once you start to feel more confident about it, then you want to do it more and you want to explore different avenues of that and that kind of thing. I remember when I was at school, I wasn't very good academically at all. Luckily, I was had amazing parents and family who were really supportive of that environment. But I know not everyone's in a similar situation, and I was always just there thinking, I can't do this, I'm not good at this, I don't know what I'm doing. And even the language that I was using to myself was just really bad. But then put me in a dance class or put me in a thing, and my confidence is off the charts, like I feel really great about myself, I love you know doing that, and I think I noticed when I started feeling more confident from doing dance and doing performance, then when I sat down in a classroom, for example, or working together with people in in a team, I was then like, okay, actually I can use those transferable skills, I can take that confidence when I'm doing I don't know, a dance piece or whatever, and then apply it to what I'm doing now.

SPEAKER_01 12:44

Yeah, and it it's a skill that you have to learn through just constant practice. Yeah, you know, and we often say to the boys, we've lot there's lots of subjects where something's right or wrong. You know, we can ask you a geography question um about you know erosion, there is a there is a right or wrong answer. There might be a different way of explaining it, but there is there's always a definitive, this is where we need to get to. I often find it with things like the arts because the boys aren't constrained by is this right or wrong. Yeah, it's an interpretive thing, it's a growth element. There is some grey area about you know, how do you feel this person would feel, or how do you feel someone would say that line? Yeah. Sixes are doing a production of Joseph. Um what a great movie. And I've had a week, I've had a week of um of cover. So I've been um helping them prepare and organise for that. And a lot of the discussions we're having are how are you going to react? So if somebody's talking and you're not just standing there, what would your character be feeling? What would they be doing? And there isn't a right or wrong answer.

SPEAKER_00 13:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:42

Um, there are some that maybe I'd guide them away from, yeah, but it's very much giving them that openness to discover that and try that on their own. And I think that helps from this fear of failure, which they may have had in other academic subjects. So then they then transfer the skill of it's okay to try into the science, uh, you know, end-of-unit test, into you know, their 11 plus VR paper. You know, it does come across, you know. Yeah. And I think that it works really nicely.

SPEAKER_00 14:08

If I work one instead of two, it it's okay. It doesn't matter, I can learn the next time.

SPEAKER_01 14:13

Yeah, as long as you write something, we'll fix we'll fix it. That's the plan.

SPEAKER_00 14:17

I want to move on now just a bit to talk about boys in performing arts. Obviously, you work at Booking Prep, which is a boys school. As a man myself, I feel like when I was younger, the performing arts industry felt really strange and like unknown. I felt like I I didn't know until I was doing it, and then I loved it, but uh when I first went into it, it was really unknown because it was a lot of the time quite female-led. And I think that nowadays still that boys tend to see performing arts as not cool or not important. I remember my mum took me to a ballet class and this was when I was really young, and I s I went in and I was the only boy there, and that really, really affected my decision to not carry on and do it. And I think that it's really important to show that it is something that boys can do. It is it is an important thing for all children to be able to explore, to be creative. Did you like performing as a child?

SPEAKER_01 15:16

I I always have been a bit performer-y, um, you know, um, but I didn't do a lot of it as a child if I'm gonna be honest. I did like things at school, um, and in you know, I was from a really large family. So sort of growing up, you know, my mum's time was split between four of us and you know, and whoever else was around at the weekend. So there wasn't always the opportunity to do that, but it was something I always would have liked to have done. As an adult, I did circle back. So I remember um thinking at one point when I was teaching, you know, I wanted to do something extra just just for me. Yeah, so I sort of I joined a few sort of uh dance classes, I went to um a few sort of um amateur dramatics companies as well. So I've done a few different things as an adult, but it is similar to it, was very much walking into a room and being sort of the only man, maybe one of two, yeah, you know, and if there was another there was another guy there, you'd be like, oh right, you know, there is company, yeah, yeah. Um and there is that sort of element of is this the place for me? You know, and I always sort of came from it as I'm really comfortable being here. Is everyone else comfortable with me being here? And actually they always are, yeah, you know, but you have that internal thought and that pressure, and um so to bring it back to school, being in a boys' school, they boys don't have that. Um, and sort of I'm always growing up, I went to co-educational uh settings and then working in a single-sex environment. I've always been very keen on saying, you know, actually, there there's you know, there's pros and cons and everything, but for me, the when we talk about gender stereotypes, specifically in a boys' school, they haven't got any comparison. So I when I when I first joined, I had this whole thought process in my mind of I'll be going into quite a hyper masculine environment. Yeah, I'm not that kind of person, but let's see how it gets on. But it was never like that, you know. The boys here they've come so young. Most of our boys join us when they're two. Um very young. I know. So um join us when they're two, and then they're used to sort of doing everything, they used to come into the um sort of lambda classes. If we have lambda, they used to go into musical classes, they're used to um doing dance and gymnastics and things in P things that maybe they would have shied away from um if other people were around, sort of with a more of a judging tone. But because we don't ever have that, the boys do amazingly well and they don't have that barrier. Um, so that works really nicely for them. You know, we have um children who um go off and they have their own dance classes outside of school, which is quite nice. I always like when things happen outside of school as well because it means that you've taken your own time. Um lots of boys who perform in like traditional dances based on sort of their culture and their background, yeah, and then they do come into school and they share that. We have assemblies, we have sort of different performances. So, and it's always done with a really celebratory attitude. Everyone's really excited for them to do that, everyone's really excited for the boys to come and sing their songs. And there's always, you know, we do an expressive arts week every year. Okay, every day there is something else. So on uh this week, I think Monday was poetry, Tuesday was singing, Wednesday was uh musical instruments, Thursday was dance. Wow, and then Friday it's uh sort of a more um art showcase. Yeah. Um, and it's always full. Every day lasts, the assembly lasts for about an hour because there are so many of the boys who want to do it because they're in this environment where their creativity and their passion isn't secondary, it's part of who they are and it's part of something to share, and the confidence levels that come with that are great, and they're they're there's some wonderful performances, the boy they sing so well, and I and I often sit back and think to myself, do you know what? I wish maybe when I was you know nine or ten I had the guts to do that, yeah, um, and I didn't, and I probably wouldn't sing in front of a big group of people now, even but just to sort of stand there sort of as an educational educationalist and just look at something that you've helped create space for, yeah, is so rewarding, and something that you know working with Select as well has been great to do because they know that you know, I think our dance classes are on a Friday afternoon. Yeah, they know that on Friday afternoon, you know, um someone's gonna I think it's Miss Sophie at the moment. Miss Sophie. Um so she comes, the boys are all excited to see her, and they've got that space, and they always try and pop down towards the end just to see where we're at. And it's always you know happy, smiley children who are really excited to do what they do without any fear of you know, just because I'm a boy, I shouldn't be doing this.

SPEAKER_00 19:34

Yeah, definitely. I've I often notice when I go into schools, a lot of the time I'll go in and then I'll say, Okay, I'm your I'm your ballet teacher, and you get that thing of what? Like you're why are you here to teach me ballet? And it's like these kids who have already, even as young as four or five, have this kind of gender stereotype in their head, and I'm like, Whoa, okay, where's this coming from? Well, how is how have they got to that place? But I had it even with piercings, like I had it, they come in, they tell you, you know, oh, that's for girls, and I said, No, it's not, it's for anybody that wants to to do dancing or to do ballet or to do that, and then they turn around and they're like, Oh, okay, yeah, and then they carry on, you know, they it's like a m when you see that moment of learning, it's like, whoa, okay. It's just it's just having sort of someone bring it to their attention.

SPEAKER_01 20:25

Um and they of the what the one thing we I like to do is um during assemblies, especially when we're talking about gender stereotypes, yeah, is um when we talk about you know specifically dance, but I'm glad you mentioned ballet as well, um, is I often sort of talk to the boys about their role models and I I sort of leave the ballet for them because I know we're gonna get to it in a minute. And I always pull up um is it Tom Holland? He's Spider-Man, isn't he? Yes. So I always put Tom Tom Holland in the boys like, he's Spider-Man. I'm like, okay, what's he like? They're like, he's strong, he's fast, you know, he's fearless. Then I pull up the videos of Billy Elliott. Yeah, and then and then and I'm like, you know how they know then they suddenly have that connection that you know two things can be true and real at the same time. Um, and I think I had one of my year sixes came to me and he'd done his own research. I'm really lucky to work with boys who really run with stuff, which is great. Um, I think that he'd gone into sort of football techniques and rugby techniques and how lots of people who played sort of top-level sports have similar dance training because it's to do with balance and coordination. And it may not be ballet, it may not be you know any other type of dance you have, but they have similar skill sets that they have to be taught to make them good at the things that they want to do. So I would it was always nice for the boys to have that connection.

SPEAKER_00 21:35

I love that. I think um I don't know if it is if I've got this right, but I think it the the Australian rugby team actually uh I don't I don't know if this is right, so don't quote me on it. There's some rugby team somewhere in the world that have to partake in ballet less classes to help them and facilitate their strength and coordination, which is I mean if we're talking about I mean it's both physical, but if we're talking about something that is a bit more um structured and streamlined and then something that's a bit more creative, it's crazy that they go hand in hand in my head. It's fascinating.

SPEAKER_01 22:13

And I just think that you know, even just bringing that to you know children's attention, you know, is great for them to know that it is for everybody. You know, you know, if you want to be fast and strong, there's different ways of doing it if that's what you feel you want. Um but at the end of the day you're still looking at really structured core, you know, disciplines, practices. Um no, I love it.

SPEAKER_00 22:34

I love that. I often found that when I so I did ballet a bit when I was younger, but obviously I didn't carry on because of the gender stereotypes. And then uh when I was 16, I went to an amazing school called Joanne Haylock School of Dance, where where I live. And when I was there, I actually found that I felt most masculine when I was doing that. Like when I was doing the ballet and I was leading a girl across the floor, or I was uh doing lots of really big jumps or or jettes or anything. That's in that moment when I felt like at school maybe I'm not so masculine. I felt way more masculine doing that thing that people stereotype to be a feminine thing, you know. Which is really interesting. So we're gonna move on now to a little game segment. Um, I love a game segment on the select podcast, it's great. Um this game segment is kind of like Dragon's Den uh style. I don't know if I can say that for copyright reasons. Um but I'm gonna play the role of the very sceptical traditional board of governors, and I'm looking to cut the budget, I don't want arts in my schools anymore, I don't think it's important, it's a luxury, and I'm gonna give you 60 seconds to try and convince me why it's important for that subject to be in the school and how it'll aid the other commands. Um how are you feeling? Feeling ready?

SPEAKER_01 24:01

Yeah, I feel like I have to think really quickly. Does 60 seconds include thinking time and delivery?

SPEAKER_00 24:06

No, no, you can think. Okay, right. You can think. I'll manage, I'll make it way. Um your first one is art versus engineering. We think that art is just messy play, we don't understand why it's important. What would you say?

SPEAKER_01 24:25

Art versus engineering. Um, okay, so art versus engineering. Um do you want me to deliver it to you like as if you were the governors? Yeah, go on. I'm the governors, I'm I'm the governors, I'm feeling strict. I'm feeling very strict. Um I think if if again so you know, art versus engineering, I'd you know, what is it you want from these children when they leave? And if we're looking at children who are real world ready, children who are ready for jobs that don't exist yet, you know, we're gonna get them ready for engineering and systems that are gonna be changed in the next 10-20 years, that you know, and that's when they want to finish university. Um, what we really need to do is bring them all the way back to the basics of problem solving and spatial awareness. And by decreasing sort of the level of art in your school, um, and I'm thinking physical art here, yeah. Um, if you by decreasing sort of what you do with art, you're taking away those problems with the children, you know. Do they know what space they have to fill? Do they know what um you know, testing my art skills now? Do they know what negative space is? Do they know the idea of perception? You know, if they want to build um different sort of skyscrapers or, you know, the next holiday destination, yeah. Are the children aware of what shapes they need, you know, and how is how are those shapes gonna um inhibit sort of traffic flow and people management? And that's all something that they'll get through art.

SPEAKER_00 25:47

Yeah, I love that, definitely. Okay, we'll maybe include art in this in the programme then. Um the next one is music versus maths. How how is music really helping in in schools? I don't understand why.

SPEAKER_01 26:02

So you don't have to think long for this one. Go on. So there is a lot of uh educational research out there which shows a really clear correlation between mathematical ability and musical ability. Okay. So I would suggest, you know, if we're looking for children who you want to be, you know, the top math scorers in the country. Um, bearing my just a slight plug for my boys here, they've made it to the absolute finals of the maths quiz in Oxford. So wow, big shout out to them. Oh, amazing! That deserves a round of applause. Really happy for them. Um, and you know, if you want children to be winning those awards and you know, go on to do further maths at A level, you need to give them the space for the musical ability because you have lots of sort of notation in there that the children need to be able to do um by sight. You're looking at patterns and pattern recognition, and that's a really big part of maths, especially if you're looking into um experimental maths. You know, if you go into university, you want to be the children need to be able to look for the patterns and you know, performing in music, you know which notes go together and that what what they mean, you know. If you're looking at scales, and you're more musical than me David, so please correct me if I'm wrong. No, yeah, there are certain notes that you can put together and some that you can't, it depends on what type of uh story you're trying to tell. Yeah, it affects it, and that will affect if you're looking at sort of even the basics of like times, tables, and factors, it's a similar thing, just shown in a different way. These numbers belong to these families, these notes belong to these families.

SPEAKER_00 27:20

And you mentioned about your rap, like you've you've literally seen a situation where they have put together music and maths.

SPEAKER_01 27:27

Yeah, and I I you know it's really clear. But there's a lot of evidence out there, actually. And I feel like you're my governance now, and I'm really trying to convince you. There's a lot of evidence out there.

SPEAKER_00 27:35

There is, I promise, there's a lot of evidence. Um, amazing. So unfortunately, we're coming to the end of the episode, but I've absolutely loved having you on here. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Before you go, um I want you to tell me maybe one quality that you see in the boys that leave through the gates um that haven't been formed from test scores and they've been formed from being in a creative environment. What would you say that that skill is or quality?

SPEAKER_01 28:01

Um Oh gosh, that's a tricky one. Um obviously we we have so many boys who come through the doors um sort of every year when they leave to go to year six. That's always like the big one. I always think to myself, you know, how what is it that we've done to help you and how have we helped mould you into who you want to be? And depending on the child, it's always very different. But for me, the art and you know, especially the children who go to select, you know, what they come out with is a real sense of confidence. And I but that doesn't always have to be big and loud and standing at the front. That's not always what confidence is. Confidence can also be sort of uh knowing that you can try, knowing who you are and what what it is that you want to achieve, and um and knowing how to talk to other people, confidence can be knowing to you know just uh get that journey a slightly different way when you're going to secondary school test an issue with a bus. Confidence can be so many different things, and it's really hard to measure. But for me, that doesn't come from test scores. You know, test scores can knock your confidence, but actually test scores aren't gonna build them back up. You need a myriad of other things that are gonna do that, and being able to work on your performance and your speaking skills and all those types of uh skill sets that we can't always do day to day when you're when you're doing test paper. That's what I feel you know that benefits the boys the most.

SPEAKER_00 29:27

Yeah, definitely. That's amazing. Confidence, what another word that came up in the previous episode as well. The that was the the big C. We called it like.

SPEAKER_01 29:36

It should be, you know, yeah, like especially nowadays when you're looking at sort of the mental health uh epidemic we've got going on with children and sort of as we're going through school, the even a confidence just to go and ask somebody for help. Yeah, you know, that's that's it's such a small thing, and I've always been a fairly confident person, so it's always hard for me to sort of take a step back about what I can do to get you to what I feel you can do, and that you know that's really really important for me.

SPEAKER_00 30:00

Amazing. Oh Michael, thank you so much for coming on. Thank you. Thank you for having me. It's been lovely to hear your insight. Um so thank you so much for listening to this episode of the Select Podcast. Thank you to Michael. Oh, thank you. And if you do want to find us, you can find us on social media at the Select Podcast and also at Select School of Performing Arts. You can also look at our website to to book yourself in for a trial. And other than that, that's everything from me. Have a lovely rest of your night, your day, your evening, whenever you're listening. And we will see you in the next one. Bye.

SPEAKER_02 30:36

Michael, it's so nice to have you on here. I'm so excited as you can see. Did you have fun with our amazing podcast host, David?

SPEAKER_01 30:44

I had a great time. It's the first time I've done anything like this, and it was just really interesting just to talk about everything that I really care about, but can't find somewhere else to talk to it. But you know, you know, it's not something I have to write down daily, so no, that was brilliant.

SPEAKER_02 30:56

You've got a platform now. You might have to start your own mic. You'll never get rid of it.

SPEAKER_01 31:02

There'll be a very simple one of them.

SPEAKER_02 31:05

It will be he'll be taking that to Netflix.

SPEAKER_00 31:08

Go for it. So you guys knew each other before before we had select in in Booking and Prep. Yes. You did. How did you meet?

SPEAKER_02 31:17

Michael was one of my students. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:20

So I yeah, I joined a dance school in Hillingdon. I think I mentioned it earlier when I was teaching, and I wanted just another skill set. Um just to do where you're not um telling people what do you wanted to learn something, a new skill? Um, one of my friends invited me to go along, and we'd gone for a while, and then we had a new teacher um come and in walked Lauren, and it was, you know, there was a real shift of energy in the room, and we we all went to tap. Some of the people had tapped before. I'd never tapped before, you know, then. So our teacher was really, really lovely, really great. We sort of learned lots of skills. And then when Lauren came, there was a real shift in everything. A positive shift. This is a real compliment where actually it came became still a fun thing, but you know, I think Lauren could see that we could all do a little bit more. And we're talking there was a real range of people there. She came and whipped you into something. No, no, no.

SPEAKER_02 32:12

But they were really good, like they you would say, Oh, we're beginners, but they were doing like intermediate stuff.

SPEAKER_01 32:18

It was, and you know, it was a real range of people. There were we had people there who were nurses, people there who were working in law, teachers, um, administrators. There was such a range of people, um, and everyone had come from different walks of life. And sort of to go somewhere and sort of have someone tell you what you were good at and you know what you need to do to improve in a completely different context was fantastic. And we actually I mean, I d I'm gonna miss it because I talk about it all the time when people ask me. Um we entered a dance show competition in 2019.

SPEAKER_02 32:49

I've got when Select started, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:52

And it was and we won first place. Yeah. Our adult tap group won first place.

SPEAKER_02 32:56

Do you remember the song?

SPEAKER_01 32:59

It was.

SPEAKER_02 33:00

Where's Lizanne? We need Lizanne. Um, it wasn't. What's that da?

SPEAKER_01 33:13

I remember I remember this bit. I remember the bit. Sadly, there's no that's the only bit I can remember.

SPEAKER_02 33:25

Something, something, something, oh no, no, no, no, no. You can do it.

SPEAKER_01 33:30

No, I can absolutely cannot. I'm I'm I'll have to find a video. We can save that for the next episode of the podcast. So the next episode of the podcast, tune in, I will I will reignite the gang and we'll get our dance ready. But it was it was, you know, actually just having that and going to do something which we all felt so fun, and then suddenly have someone say, you know, you guys, and since then we've done dance shows, we've done what's your favourite number? My favourite number. I didn't I do know that I my family would come to watch and they'd always say to me, Michael, your mouth moves the entire time. You're counting, I'd be counting up like one, two, three, two, three, four. So that that's a skill that I still need to work on. Um, but no, it was honestly it was great. And then, you know, Lauren, Lauren did she did whip us all into a shape, but it was a shape that none of us could see, but Lauren could clearly see that we could be a certain way. And when I had to choose um somebody to come and work with the boys, you know, we had an extra space um for you know extra clubs and experiences with boys. I really, I think really strongly. My school is like my baby, you know, and everything I do reflects on me as a person, I feel. Um, and I thought really long and hard about who can I trust who's gonna come in, you know, treat the boys the way that I would treat them, but also push them in a way that they need to be. And Lauren's name was top of my list. Hello. Um, so you know, and they do, you know, I'm always great, I'm always grateful that you came. Um, because I know that we are quite a small school and there's lots of other places for you to be. So that's a thank you from me, and probably from the boys and the parents as well. I'll talk in their behalf. So thank you.

SPEAKER_02 35:08

Well, thank you for coming on here, and also thank you for giving us that platform to be able to come in and and do all of our classes. And you know, if you do want to do another adult tap class, maybe you could you could do that.

SPEAKER_01 35:20

You could you could lead uh you could I'll be home practicing my number, ready for ready, ready for ready to show you all. That's my plan. That's great.

SPEAKER_00 35:26

The next step, yeah? Yeah, yeah, done. See you next.