SPEAKER_00 0:04

Welcome to Lambs and Company, a podcast about life. We will feature guests and friends on the podcast to have quality conversations and wonderful fellowship. We hope you will join us. It's a life worth living, and it's a life worth giving.

SPEAKER_01 0:24

Hey. Well, good morning and welcome to another Lambs and Company. Remember, a life worth living is a life worth giving. And uh got Dr. Hall with me this morning again, and we're uh, you know, we're just having fun. We really do. We enjoy uh our time together off camera. We enjoy our time together on camera, and um we just enjoy life, and it's a blessing and a joy uh to have friendships, relationships that have been around for decades. And you you talk about a lot of things and you cover a lot of things. And the reason I'm laying that out this morning is the recent theological trends and uh recent news events over the last couple of years, I think, have been um uh intriguing to people. People kind of like, well, is that really well what's really going on there? Maybe there's something to all of this, especially when you talk about UFOs. And um we want to jump into that this morning and and cover some of this uh from a biblical standpoint. Um first of all, um, you know, in 2 Corinthians chapter 12 and verse 2, Paul makes mention, he said, I know a man, whether he was in the body or out of the body, I don't know, but he was caught up to the third heaven. So one of the things I want you to keep in mind, we have the the earth and its hemisphere that's around the earth, but then that Paul makes reference to a third heaven. So if there's a third heaven, there has to be a second heaven. And most of the activity that people are seeing are in the hemisphere of the earth, or either it's actually probably in the second heaven. But yet we have a clear record from the scriptures, uh, old and new covenant, from Moses to Daniel to Job, the book of Job, to uh what Paul said, as well as what the writer of Hebrews says, where he says in Hebrews chapter uh 13, he says, um, you know, that we are to be conscious or aware because sometimes we're entertaining angels right here amongst us. Well, what does the Bible define an angel as? It's an extraterrestrial being. So when people talk about extraterrestrial beings, it's amazing to me that Christians never stop to think about the fact that the Bible already told us that they're actually uh extraterrestrial beings around us and that we need to be aware because we may actually be entertaining them sometimes. They may be checking up on us. I know in uh Genesis chapter 18, when the Lord got the report in heaven of what was going on in Sodom and Gomorrah, he said, you know what, I'm sending messengers down to make sure that what is being reported is accurate and true, because God's a righteous judge. He doesn't judge unrighteously, but he's not also gonna let stuff go on a lot of times that that is completely uh against his nature or character. And he's very slow and he's very patient, he's very kind, but eventually there's a lot of stuff that goes on in humanity and humankind that God says, you know what, I've had enough, I'm gonna deal with it. But it's interesting that UFOs have been in the news almost weekly or monthly for the last several years. People are always talking about Area 51 and the research, and you know, that's out in Area 51 in Nevada. Um, there's the recent push for the president to do an executive order to release the information and the research that's in Area 51. You know, that's not where I'm going for my sources. Uh it may have some information there, it may have some intriguing things that are there, but the place I like to go to is the scripture. And so I want us to get into that this morning and I just want to pray a quick prayer. Father, thank you for today. Thank you for those that may listen to this. Uh, I hope it will be beneficial and helpful. Lord, I hope you speak to people's hearts and their minds. I hope you clarify things. I hope you inspire things. I hope you create a greater hunger and desire in our hearts and our life for your word. And Lord, to research things according to your truth and what you have provided and given to us in the Word of God. And Father, thank you as Artie and I share this morning that the things that we'll say and the things that we'll share would actually be beneficial and helpful to people in Jesus' name. Amen. Um, so we want to also probably touch on the Nephilim. We also want to talk on Rephium. Uh the, you know, these are things we're giants and uh all were recorded in the scriptures, but you know, all of this is kind of interlocked.

unknown 5:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:43

And so uh Artie, you want to you want to jump into this?

SPEAKER_02 5:46

Well we could we can jump into it.

SPEAKER_01 5:48

Some buff fee. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_03 5:50

Yeah, I I uh one of the last couple of years we were in Nicaragua, uh, I taught some classes at Nicaraguan Christian Academy. These were these would have been high school level classes, and uh one was a world religions class. So we got through all the world religion stuff and and a couple of cults in that too that we dealt with. And then we had about a a couple of classes left, and I asked the kids, these would have been yeah, because I I taught a Hebrew class that year to the seniors, and then I uh there was these are like seventh, eighth, ninth grade kids. And uh, well, what what what do you guys want to what what you want me to cover in the next couple of classes? I'll I'll be glad to, you know, you got questions or whatever. Boy, that was a stupid thing to do. Because, you know, one of the at that time, this was in 2018, I guess, uh the whole um uh a lot of the Michael Heiser stuff where you had the Nephilim and that I think the movie had come out, one of the Noah Flood movies that had all kinds of interesting stuff in it. So they were asking about all that, and then that kind of led to the whole unidentified flying object thing and aliens and and all of that. So I go, okay, here we go. Let's open the door to that rabbit hole. And uh so I I put together some some information primarily for the for the kids and and just kind of work through it. And uh uh I came to a couple of conclusions just as I'm I'm working through it. And the thing you're saying, that we have a biblical viewpoint, we have a biblical worldview. That's our presupposition. We believe God exists, God created the world, all of that. So that does drive how we're gonna interpret evidence. If you don't have that view, then you have to figure out what's going on. And and uh I then you just kind of honestly, that's theories. A theory is when people make stuff up, you know, and sometimes they can be tested, sometimes not. So it's all of that. Because that's kind of how science works, and that's fine. We you discover a lot of things that way. Uh so that that whole exploration, experimental model, and all that is very empirical and it works fine. Um because God has created the world with laws and physics and all of that. And uh so the the astrophysicists uh sometimes claim and and often say that that the world is is you know billions and billions, the universe billions and billions of years old, and that out there they're just millions of inhabited planets. And the difficulty with that is that uh we don't have any technology available to actually see one of these planets. We we we understand our own solar system. The assumption is that since planets revolve around our sun, a star, then there must be other planets out there revolving around other stars. They've got ways, they say, the scientists, that they can figure out that there's stuff out there around that star. But the thing they've never done is seen one. You know, so so they're saying all these planets out there exist, and and well, they're out there. We we can't see it, but it's out there because so-and-so did this and this thing and this, you know, and they use mathematics for all that stuff. I don't know what all that is. And I mean, maybe they're right, I don't know. Maybe there are planets out there, and maybe there's one that's close to that of the earth. So that's the assumption. So if that's the case, then they think, well, well, then there must be life out there. And and the whole idea of that, there's just there's this fancy word they came up with. It was called panspermia. And which is you kind of go, what's up with that? And and essentially it just means all it's all seed, it's a Greek word. And the idea is that there's life scattered all throughout the universe, and that that life has tagged on to asteroids and meteoro meteorites and just all sorts of things, and and and then maybe even spacecraft and and all that, and that it somehow that and part of this came from once they once they mapped the human genome and they looked at the complexity of DNA and and the structure of humans and just the whole thing that's so so complex, it really threw a wrench in the evolution thing that all of this happened spontaneously. There had to have been some sort of design in all of this in order for that to happen. So then they had to have, well, that couldn't possibly have been God. So, you know, in their thinking. So they have to figure out a way, well, it must have come from another planet. Well, that means they're just the aliens have come and they've seeded the world. And that, you know, and they're and and then and then when you look back at ancient history, of which we know little, really, uh, you know, they claim all the stuff we know about ancient history, 85% of that is from literature, the stuff that's been preserved that people wrote down that they saw, the rest of it is just archaeological remains. And that's a pile of rocks that somebody says was something. I it it, you know, I mean, and they're pretty good at all that, but but it it and then they'll find some something that they don't know what it is, and they have to figure out what they used it for. And they they still find stuff, you know. So all it we 10% of the ancient world, maybe, we know about the rest of it we really don't. And so there's a lot of stuff there. But then if you view that through the lens of ancient aliens or astronauts or whatever you know you had out there, then you start interpreting things that way. You know, as Christians we look at that, you know, the thing you said, angels, just by definition, are from another dimension, another, another realm. They're extraterrestrial. They they came from heaven, you know, we're on earth. You know, so there's not a problem with that. Uh, but it it uh they they have to figure out another way to explain all that. And that's part of what happens with all of this. But the difficulty is that there's just no real evidence for that. And and there's no real evidence that there's uh that there's some civilization or planet. Part of that, in fact, goes back to um he was a nuclear scientist in the 30s, uh, Enrico Fermi. Fermi was at the University of Chicago, he did a bunch of experiments with nuclear fusion uh fission, and had, I think he did the first sustainable nuclear reaction or whatever, whatever that was, um, years back. And his his question was so if you've got all these civilizations out there, if they've all evolved simultaneously, or and some of them billions of years older than we are, then where is everybody? Because obviously they would have developed technology and they could just go all over the world like Star Trek, and and you know, which none of that exists, by the way. We have all this Star Trek stuff and all that, and warp speed, and yet none of that exists. And and uh yet that I know of, I mean, maybe they got one in Washington, but but it it uh I maybe they're aliens in Congress, but but it it uh but that yeah, I don't know uh, you know, uh all of how all of that happened. But that's just question. Where are they all at? Where are all these all this stuff out there if they really do exist? And and there there's no real good answer to that question. And and uh that that so so then as Christians we go to the Bible, and what do you see? Well, well, part of what you see is the every now and then a prophet, well, for instance, Jacob. Jacob saw angels ascending and descending on stairs, going up to what seemed to be an opening. Well, that sounds pretty extraterrestrial to me. You know, if somebody, if somebody saw that next week in Lamar, you know, they go, oh, it's a UFO, it's oh, you know, that's what they think. I mean, they wouldn't think angels and stairs and all that, but that's what Jacob thought, but that was his worldview that was there. You know, the the if you read that description of what Ezekiel saw, he got the wheel and the eyes and the creatures and the, you know, and you just kind of go, oh, okay. And and you know, because it was another realm altogether. Elijah. There was Elijah in this uh a chariot. You know, and if someone uh like Elijah, if Elijah saw my Toyota, he would say, that's a chariot with no horses. You know, I mean that's that would be one of the ways to describe that. So he's looking where this thing is, this flying around, or an angel, or I don't know, but you know, it he was caught up into that realm because it exists. You know, as Christians, we believe that there's the earthly realm, we live in that, you know, physical world, but there's a spiritual world there. You know, and and the thing you point out of of the levels, whatever that is, you know, there's there's the the must be the if there's a third, there must be a second and a first or different realms. Uh so all of that's a biblical idea. And and and you know, so I think folks might need to just sort of relax in some of that. The the idea that there is other places of life out there comes more from an evolutionary standpoint, that somehow, if we evolved, uh according to the assumption, then other places must have had the same thing that happened. But you know, so far, they really haven't found any evidence that any of the other planets around us, because they've only been to Mars, and a couple others they sent probes and and you know, we've been to the moon. They don't seem they hadn't found anything yet. You know, it it seems. And and uh uh you know, and and they may make stuff up, but but I don't I don't know that that's the case. And uh so if there's not anything around us and we're by ourselves, it seems, in the solar system, then why would there be anything else going on here? I mean, maybe, maybe it it's all it's all speculation in in a lot of that. Um so if but if you pull out from an evolutionary worldview, uh it it uh uh you go to a biblical worldview where God created. When you start from the Bible, you've got this this this evidence that sort of makes sense, and we may well just be, except for the spiritual realm, we may be alone. We may be the only human beings that God ever made. Yeah, and we're here, and this universe is something he created that we can all look at, and uh and and he just he made all of that and the splendor of that to show his glory, and I don't know why God does stuff, because he's God, he just God does what he does, and he's God. I don't know, you know, while that is, and I mean, is there some other place out there that's got people? I you know, I don't know. Uh that and but to assert that there is other stuff out there without any real evidence is just it's not wise. You know, so what is what's everybody seeing? That would be the question. What's everybody seeing out there? Because these are not, this is not Bubba in the pickup after a six-pack. You know, six beers in, he looks up and says, Hey, look at that. You know, it that's not what we're talking about here. This these are trained pilots, these are trained people, these are people that see stuff and they they see stuff for a living. So, so you can't just say, Well, they don't know what they're doing. Well, I mean, maybe they don't know what they're doing, but but uh it it something is there that people are seeing through the years they've seen this sort of thing. You know, so I think a lot of that's there. And and that brings us to the the the UFO folks came up with this word interdimensionality. And I I think as Christians we we we can, I mean, because you could describe the dimension that God is in, or or the the spiritual world that God is in is another dimension. You know, we've got the earthly dimension, we've got this second dimension thingy, we've got, and then there's this dimension where God is, maybe. So I I I think and the Bible also talks about uh the Revelation 4.1, the thing John said. He said in this it's verse one, after these things I looked, and a and behold, a door standing open in heaven. So if heaven is another dimension, then that's a door going into that dimension. So that makes a lot of sense just from a biblical viewpoint, and uh that that would explain the ladder or the the stairs going up to the door. Uh you know, in the book of Daniel, the stuff that Daniel would see. So is is people in the past have been given a glimpse of this world?

SPEAKER_01 19:14

Can I ask a quick because everything you're saying is so important, but when you when you look at the Revelation 4:1 and you you talk about that door, people say, Well, why why didn't people why is it more common now? And and I think people forget Jesus uh in John 10 said, I am the door. In other words, once Christ came, once he lived, once he died, once he was buried, once he was raised from the dead, once he ascended, then John on the Isle of Patmos gets this revelation. He's the Lord's allowing him to see these things, but it seems that um it seems that that whole availability as an uh access of activity seems to have been more plainer and clearer once Jesus becomes seated at the right hand of the Father, and people also forget that part of the thing that's going on is Jesus is seated on the right hand of the Father, and it's until all of his enemies be made his footstool. Yeah, and that's all in the earth.

unknown 20:29

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:30

Every bit of that. So go ahead and pick up.

SPEAKER_03 20:32

Yeah, that that is, and it does seem that the the way into that realm has been opened by Jesus for us. He was the pioneer, he went into to the throne room of God and all that was there. However, all that works, you know, with with in Jesus, God, all that, and you can figure all that out theologically if you want, but um but it it and it seems a little more prevalent now, but part of that might just be because of the internet, and and there's just or just the news or you know, all of that.

SPEAKER_01 21:05

Maybe the internet is an alien thing.

SPEAKER_03 21:07

Yeah, maybe it's cre may yeah. And you wonder about those guys, but but the uh um uh in the past there there may have been some things that people saw that you know it just didn't make the news, you know, because it because it just wasn't as as widespread uh through through a lot of that.

SPEAKER_01 21:24

Well go back go back where I kind of paused you for a minute and just pick back up and continuing that thought because that was uh that was good, you know, where we were going.

SPEAKER_03 21:34

You know, there's there's a curious verse, Exodus 24, uh starting about verse 9, says, as Moses went up, and also Aaron, Nadab, Babu, and seventy elders of Israel. This is on Mount Sinai. And they saw the God of Israel, and there was under his feet, as it were, a paved work of sapphire stone. It was like the very heavens in its clarity, but on the nobles and the children of Israel he did not lay his hand. So they Saw God and they ate and they drank. It was like they entered through the door. When they went up to Mount Sinai and went up into the presence of God, and this was Moses, the boys with him, and 70 elders, they they were able to, and that's part of the ratification of the of the uh covenant with Israel. But it it it was an opening into that realm that all these guys saw, and they saw this, you know, this this thing that was like a clear glass-looking uh, you know, uh pavement or something. You know, all of that, and and they they and and probably that would have been Jesus appearing in the Old Testament that they had this meal with. So you you you I you assume, I I mean you don't you don't know about some of that. Daniel 7, verse 9, I watched till the thrones were put in place, and the ancient of days was seated. His garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head was like pure wool. His throne was a fiery flame, the wheels a burning fire, a fiery stream issued and came forth from before him. Uh thousands, thousands, a thousand thousands ministered to him, ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him, the court was seated and the books were open. You know, so it uh Daniel had that glimpse into that realm. The thing we need to be careful with is that because we have glimpses, then based on that glimpse, we make all kinds of stuff, all kinds of assumptions. And those may not be true. You know, it it it and that's where the danger is, and and that's where part of some of this stuff uh has happened. Um uh whatever people are seeing, I I think the conclusion in this, just the general conclusion in this, is that you know, whatever people are seeing is spiritual, I think. You know, it is from another dimension, and uh it it's whether it's an angel or some other something or other in the heavens. I don't know. I mean, there are angels, there's there's a lot of things, it seems, up there. There they're this being, this other living being. I you know, I don't know about all that. I I don't know because it's just a glimpse. You know, that God did not explain all of that. And uh all through the years, both he the the Jews and others would try to explain all of this angel stuff, and they try to explain the levels of the angels, and then the Jews try to explain the levels of the heavens and the level and and all of that is just speculation because it we all we get is a glimpse. And and but the glimpse is enough. Yeah, it is. It's enough to say there's another world out there that we don't directly have access to.

SPEAKER_01 24:52

Well, uh the um there's there's a whole nother aspect of this I think we need to get into or go into. And um and so maybe what we should consider today is kind of landing for the for today, yeah, and do like this we call this part one. And maybe we can do a part two. Yeah, and uh because there's a whole thing of the that we need to get into of the sons of God uniting with the daughters of men, the whole thing of the Nephilim, the whole thing with the Rephrum, the the all of this, because all of this stuff is actually in the scriptures, yeah, and yet people don't know what to do with it because it's not common. And yet, you know, we've got the Senate, we've got the we've got the Pentagon, we've got the the president and the vice president. Everybody's talking about the UFO stuff and all. But the problem is, I think the thing that people are missing is the Lord is wanting people to look up, and and he's wanting us to look into the heavens, not in an unauthorized way, but he wants us to access it in a legitimate, authorized way. And the only legitimate authorized way for people, I think, is what Colossians 3:1 says that if Christ is raised from the dead, then set your affections on things above. We need to be setting our affections on things above. We need to understand Jesus said, I'm the door, I'm the way, I'm the life. You know, no man comes to the Father except by me. And yet we reverse and go back to the whole language of John 10, where if you try to do it any other way, you're actually a thief or you're a hireling and you're doing it illegitimately. And it's amazing to me how hard humanity tries to etch God out of our culture and society, and yet he's the creator of the very existence that we have.

SPEAKER_02 27:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:14

And life really does go better when you follow the instructions of the one that is the creator of the creation.

SPEAKER_02 27:21

It does. It does.

SPEAKER_01 27:23

And uh, and I just um I I think it that's a good pausing point, but would you close in prayer and then um and again, guys, this this is part one. We'll we'll end up doing a second portion of this because it it is important. People do need to understand from God's perspective and God's counsel what the word of God says. Uh, we don't need to be making stuff up, we don't need to be afraid of stuff.

SPEAKER_02 27:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:50

Um, you know, the truth is, I think the closer that we stay in step and in our walk in relationship with the Lord, um, I I think it it really becomes more simple, not more complicated and complex. And um, yeah, life is very complicated and complex, especially without the Lord. And I think these pilots, um, I know Hardy didn't mention it, but he has a brother-in-law that was in, you know, was a pilot. And I'm, you know, I'd be amazed to talk about some of these guys that were high up in these things, because part of the report is, you know, they've had stuff to show up in the windshield when they're flying at mock speed, you know, in the dark, and all of a sudden something shows up and it just hangs right there and hovers with them while they're moving, and then all of a sudden disappear. And they said the movement of it is not possible for anything that we have that's been created as far as as far as our jets and stuff like that. So, you know, does that mean there's an extraterrestrial being there that is a UFO type thing, or does it mean that somebody just happened to encounter a the spiritual dimension that was always there? And they got a glimpse into that, the very term that you mentioned. And I just think the Lord is doing everything he can to give us signs and post that we can actually know the existence of God. We we need the Lord right now. Our world needs the Lord right now. Our nation needs the Lord right now. Families and individuals need the Lord right now. And yet, you know, when we come to Christ, it begins to open that door not only in our own heart, but it opens that door in heaven so we can live a life. And you know, a life worth living is a life worth giving. So, Artie, would you close out in prayer?

SPEAKER_03 29:54

Lord, we put these things in your hands and Father, we trust you, and uh, we also trust in the name that is above all names, that every power, every principality, anything in that other dimension, in that heavenly dimension, Father, your name, the name of Jesus is above all those names. And we thank you for that divine protection you have on our lives and for keeping us. Lord, manifest yourself in the world. Let people see the truth, open up the eyes of those that are deceived, open up the eyes of those that are broken and hurt, and Father, touch their pain and bring us into a place where the world begins to receive you again. We pray in Jesus' name. Amen.

SPEAKER_01 30:46

Thank you for joining us with Lambs and Company today. God bless you.