SPEAKER_00 0:04

Welcome to Lambs and Company, a podcast about life. We will feature guests and friends on the podcast to have quality conversations and wonderful fellowship. We hope you will join us. It's a life worth living and it's a life worth giving.

SPEAKER_02 0:24

Welcome back to Lambs and Company. We're going to do a part two of the whole thing. We've been talking about theologically about UFOs. And part one, we pretty much did uh kind of did an overview of things about UFOs and all. And one of the things we started out with was what Paul said in 2 Corinthians chapter 12 and verse 2. That uh that one of the things is Paul said that there was a a man, he said that now whether I was in the body or out of the body, he said, I don't know. But he said, one thing I do know, he was caught up into the third heaven. And so, you know, that was talking about Paul. You know the writer of Hebrews talks about in the 13th chapter, he talks about how we should uh conduct ourselves and carry ourselves because we're oftentimes maybe actually uh we may be actually entertaining angels. Well, angels are extraterrestrial beings, and they're all through the Old Testament, they're all through the New Testament. So we kind of covered this part, but one of the things we want to really get into this morning uh is the area of in Genesis chapter six, there's some interesting language there that is in the scriptures that has always been baffling and puzzling to a lot of theologians and just to a lot of Bible readers. And again, I think the Bible addresses these things. I think uh, I think what um G. Campbell Morgan, I think what Sidlow Baxter, I think about um so many writers ended up, uh Arthur Pink, all these people believe that you should interpret the scripture with the scripture. Other words, God has always, if he puts something there, Norman also has an expansion upon that because he's very big on the fact that in the mouth of two or more witnesses, let every word be established. So God's always going to have, if something's important, it's always gonna be there two or more times that you can find it. And so you need to find it and look at it and see why it's there. But one of the things about this morning is all through the New Testament, if you remember, Paul, which was the man that was caught up into the third heaven, makes reference to the fact in Ephesians chapter one about principalities and powers and rulers of darkness, but how Christ had dominion and authority over all of those things. He talks about in the third chapter of how, in chapter three, verse 10, how the manifold wisdom of God was made known to the church, that they might make known that wisdom to the principalities and powers. Uh, he talks about in the sixth chapter that we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, powers, and rulers of darkness and spiritual wickedness in high places. So my point is if there's a third heaven and we're in the earth, there's a second heaven, or whatever that looks like in between, but there's obviously activity that takes place in there that isn't actually trying to promote the gospel, it's not trying to bring the good news. If anything, it's trying to create distortion, deception, and distraction. And so remember that even when you have these things about UFOs and everything, you should always check and see what's the context of it, what was the message of it, and what was the result of it. But then also, what does the scripture say? Because we've gotten into an age and an hour where we have actually abandoned what the council of God says. And in Proverbs chapter 3, it says, you know, lean not to your own understanding, but acknowledge the Lord in all of your ways. And we simply are trying to bring an acknowledgement of the Lord into these areas about UFOs, about Nephilim, about uh Refim, uh, you know, about the giants. You know, we we want to just touch these things. We, you know, we're not writing a book on it right now or anything of that nature. There's some good resources out there, but today is just to make you aware and create enough appetite that you'll begin to research God's word and find out for yourself. Because I believe the greatest teacher is still the hope and the help that the Holy Spirit brings to our life through the written word of God. So, Artie, would you pick up on the whole Genesis chapter 6, 1 through 4, and let's go into that aspect of things?

SPEAKER_01 5:15

Yeah, let's look at that passage. It is a difficult passage in the Old Testament. And one of the things we're guilty of, and and yeah, not guilty of, God made us this way. We're curious. We human human beings, people, we are curious. And we like to know things. And when you read in the Bible, you find a verse, and sometimes there are clear verses in the Bible. You know, 85% of the Bible is very clear. But every now and then you'll find a passage and you go, What's up with that? And and you know, or a verses Psalms or whatever, and and the world view of the people of the Old Testament was a uh it wasn't particularly a scientific view, and frequently they never really asked the question why something happened in a sense of of what caused it. It was more like who caused it. They they would look more in into the world of gods and all that, and into that aspect. They were a little more attuned to the spiritual world because it was a very real world. So I think we we need to be careful when we look at Old Testament, particularly Old Testament passages. You know, that that's my area. Uh I've spent years looking at the Old Testament, looking at the languages of the Old Testament, looking at the background of the Old Testament, the mythology, all that was involved in the civilizations around that to try to figure out the context of some of this. So that's what I bring to this, but but I I'm by far still puzzling over some things. And uh I I'm not I I have a I have a tendency to be able to just relax, let the Bible speak, and not worry about it too much. You know, if I don't completely understand all that, I'm not worried about that because I'm not God. He knows. I love him, I love Jesus, and we're good to go. You know, Jesus said I can go to heaven, and I'm good with that. You know, that's I'm not worried about too much else. You know, but anyway, here we go. Genesis 6, what it says this. Now it came to pass when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born to them, that the sons of God, Bene Ha Elohim. Ben is a Hebrew word for for son. Uh Elohim is the a frequently used word in the Old Testament. It's a plural form of El. El is a generalized Semitic word for God. And uh it exists in Aramaic, Ugaritic, uh, Syriac, uh, all of the Semitic languages. It it takes slightly different form, but it's the same word. And Elohim is just sort of a plural form, which generally has been explained as sort of this majestic thing, plural of magistry, uh magist, uh just the whole uh um like like a king. You know, sometimes kings would say we, you know, it is Henry Eighth would say, We are not amused, or or whatever, you know, we really he was kind of big, but anyway. Uh they saw the daughters of men, that they were beautiful, and they took wives for themselves of all whom they chose. And the Lord said, My spirit shall not strive with men forever, for he is indeed flesh, yet his days shall be a hundred and twenty years. And verse four, and this is just it's just sort of a random passage. There were giants on the earth in those days, huh? Whoa, what's that? And that's the the King New King James translation says giants. The Hebrew text says Nephilim, and on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came into the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men, it's the same word used there, Nephilim, who were of old, men of name, men of renown, it says. So the big question here is who are sons of God? And you've got a couple of traditional interpretations of that. The one is that the sons of God are fallen angels. Part of the difficulty with that view is that Jesus seems to indicate that angels are neither neither marry nor are given in marriage. So, how did the angels marry to women? Maybe there's you know something else going on there. Or they were just powerful human governors or kings, or they were the descendants of Seth, who were part of the godly lineage of humans intermarrying with wicked descendants of Cain. So that created these men of renown. Um the traditional view was that it was just the godly line of Seth and the ungodly line of Cain, and that's where these men of renown came from. That was sort of a traditional view for a long time. More recently, they've gone back to uh more of a supernatural interpretation of this passage, uh in in just in the Old Testament literature in general, where these goes, they they've gone back to this fallen angel thing, and that maybe there's something to that. And then they and and all of a sudden a lot of people have rediscovered the book of Enoch. And the the difficulty with the book of Enoch is that uh uh the book of Enoch that we have now may not really be the very original book of Enoch that was written at the time, although the whatever we've got is it does reflect some very old Jewish tradition. And it is a but it's not a Bible book, it's not in the canon, it's not in the old, and it wasn't recognized in the canon for a long time, although it was known to people, even into the New Testament, and some of that. Um the the sons of God in Daniel, Daniel 4 10, which is an Aramaic verse, it's not even in Hebrew. Um ear is the Hebrew word for that. Um the ear is like a watcher. This is a guy that that's a guardian, a watcher, a keeper. Um, cu because the verse says, and it in the English version, it's verse 13, by the way. I saw in the visions of my, it's 10 in the Hebrew text, verse 13 in uh the English version, I saw in the visions of my head while on my bed, and and there was a watcher, an ear, a holy one coming down from heaven. So so Daniel saw this thing that was there, and and uh that that has been elaborated upon in this this uh uh book of Enoch. You know, Enoch was the great-grandfather of Noah, from you know, separated from Adam. And Enoch talks about a lot of this, it talks about the supernatural demons and giants and why some angels fell, and why there was a flood, and why just all of this stuff there is in in the book of Enoch. Uh as I said though, the con the book of Enoch that we have now, it it it you don't know how old it is really, or what may have been in because there seems to be there was a book of Enoch. Okay, that that seems to be something that's there, but uh as to whether we really have all of the information that was there, you know, you just don't know. Um the watchers, these these it in the Aramaic is Irin, uh and the Book of Enoch, one of the versions of the book of Enoch we have is in Aramaic, but uh it so some of that in the I think there's a Greek version too, but uh they're they watch over humans. But so this is these are like angels, and the explanation is that they started looking at women, and they kind of got interested in all that stuff there with the women, so they got involved with the women, and then they started having these offspring, and the offspring were called Nephilim, and Nephal is a Hebrew word for fall, so Nephilim means fallen ones, so that that does kind of work together, and these are like savage giants, all kinds of things said about them. You know, sometimes they're said to be cannibals, they're just all kinds of stuff you'll you'll find there, and that these Nephilim gave people technology that they they learned at the time that was that was beyond the ability of humans to be able to manage that technology. So they weren't supposed to do that. And and once all that happened, the world before the flood just went crazy. And and all that was going on there, and you you just have all kinds of imagination in describing that world before the flood. The reality is the world before the flood is lost to us because that world perished. That's what it says in the New Testament. Whatever was there perished. Yeah, there I don't know that we're gonna find any ruins from that world. Uh stuff existed. There were cities, there was some technology, there was a lot of things that happened, and you can you can speculate about how advanced any of that was. I don't know. Um, but it was destroyed because it was totally, completely fallen and wicked, and God had not really instituted human government at the time in all that was going on with some of that. So the flood comes, and uh Noah's gonna get Noah gets warned, you know. But there is Jude verse 6 in the New Testament that says, and the angels which which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he's reserved in everlasting chains under darkness until the judgment of the great day. So whatever these Nephilim were in the past, by the now they seem to have been captured. And and but then what happened? How how is it that we have these giants in the Old Testament? And where did all that come from? Uh according to these, there was this this race of giants, like these superheroes. They were really big. And one of the theories in that is that there was somehow a mixture of this fallen angel demonic thing with with with people. Um and it and about 2018 when I was doing this, there was a movie that came out, uh, one of the Noah Flood movies. It was awful. And what happened in that is that you had a blending together of a lot of Hebrew tradition. Because if you saw that movie, I think it was one that had Russell Crowe in the room.

SPEAKER_02 16:04

Russell Crowe was in that, I think.

SPEAKER_01 16:05

Yeah, just awful. And they had these um the angels that came shooting down or the fallen something came shooting down from heaven and landed on the earth, and then they turned into these stone things. And uh so that and those became the watchers. They just turned into these stone things, and that's a watcher was not a stone thing, that's a separate Jewish tradition of an object called a golem. And the golem was this stone giant, supposedly, that existed in the past, and even some of the some of the Jews would have a model of this thing going even into the Middle Ages, and it was this thing that protected you, this golem, and it would fight against the bad stuff. You know, it's like a protecting angel or something. So that's that that's what was going on in that movie. So it made everybody kind of curious about all of this. And uh so was so so what were these things? What happened with this, and how did they end up being called giants? Because the Hebrew text does not say giant, it says Nephilim, fallen ones, but the Greek version uses the word gigantes, and that's a Greek word for giant. And uh uh so the the Greek text translated it giants, and that was around 250 BC, probably, thereabouts, when when when they originally translated Genesis or Deuteronomy, probably into Greek. So at that time, their opinion, the translators, was that word meant giant. But since then, there's just been some other stuff that have happened with that have gone through. And even in um the Latin text that came about a number of years later, they're they're called giants, gigantes, same thing. And then there's this verse out of Numbers, verse Numbers 13, 33. Uh and and it says, There we saw giants, and the word there it it is is Nephilim, it's fallen ones, the descendants of Anak. Well, how did that come in there? What's up with that? And we were like grasshoppers in our own side, and so we were in their side. So that's after the flood. So that so the question is, when did that Jude verse take place that these these fallen angels were captured and they couldn't mess with anybody? Because that seems to be the case now. They're not messing with anybody now, it seems. But were were there times after the flood when somehow this thing happened again? Because you have a description of big people in the Old Testament. You've got Og, the king of Bashin, who had this huge bed. He was like nine feet tall or something. You got Goliath and his brothers, who were apparently all giants, just really big, nine feet tall or something.

SPEAKER_02 19:17

I wonder what his mama had to say about having them big boys.

SPEAKER_01 19:20

I'm thinking they must have been big babies. So so you have these big people, and obviously this is a and in fact, even in in Egyptian literature, going to this would have been uh uh inter the some of the uh interchanges between Canaan and Egypt. Um 13th Dynasty, I don't remember the dynasty, was one of the Egyptian in the literature. They mention really big people in these Judean hills. That they're just big people there. So they came from somewhere. Now either they're just really big humans, and I mean people can get really big, uh uh, but but so that but that's the question. You know, in Genesis 6.4 says, uh it it says, in those days and also afterward. So it seems that maybe there was some sort of repetition of this. You know, they saw the the Nephilim and all of that. And um I you know, was there some sort of mating with humans or what you know, what's going on with that? And are there any of these Nephilim running around today? You know, we don't have a question of that. I it it uh I think they're in the NBA, aren't they? You know, it's it, you know, so you have all of this stuff. Um Second Peter, in fact, uh 2.4. For if God did not spare the angels of sin, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness to reserve to judge it, did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, blinging in the bringing in the flood of the world of the ungodly, and turning the cities of Sodom and Kamara into ashes, condemned them to destruction, making them example of those who would uh who afterward were live ungodly, and delivered righteous lot, filthy upon all that, dwelling among them, tormented his righteous soul from the day hearing these lawless deeds. And the Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptation and preserve them and and uh uh uh to the day of judgment, especially those who walk according uh all of that. So, so that's just part of the the verse that was there. So it mentions that this thing is somehow uh put there. One of the things that that Peter goes on to say, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignitaries, whereas angels who are greater in power and might do not bring a reviling accusation against them before the Lord. They just say the Lord rebuke you and it's and and be done with that. So you know what's up with all that? Are are these things floating around now? Are there is there some connection? with the UFO thing, with all of that. And and uh I you know I don't know. I I don't know. I have a tendency to lean in the direction of of the supernatural interpretation of Genesis 6 that somehow these were fallen angels. I'm not sure what kind of angels they may have been and the fact that they're called Bene Ha Elohim. Um that's uh there that word Elohim a fellow fellow named Michael Heiser worked with Logos International I think it was Logos did a lot of their um Hebrew text work and he had a PhD in uh I think Semitic literature ancient world from University of Wisconsin he was uh student of Michael Fox and I and Heiser was a Christian um uh so I mean he was a Christian it's not like he was a secular guy and but he was in charge of a lot of their um Semitic language stuff that they did in in logos Bible software he he just passed away he did he he had I think some sort of cancer or something but um but but he did a lot of work with that and he got criticized a lot about it but I think he had some points in what he said I read a couple of his books could that he came out with um and you know and and you you really it's not good to speak ill of the dead now because you can say well he he did this or he did that and he can't defend himself now so you need to be careful about some of that but uh I I think he may have gone too far in some things but but he made a good point in just trying to he was will he two things he was always willing to do he was willing to take on a verse that nobody else wanted to mess with you know because sometimes people just go I don't know yeah I don't know what it means you know let's let's do something else that's kind of what you do with that verse and he would talk to anyone he would go on some podcast he and this is during that era the last part of his life and he would just he'd talk to the guy with the UFO thing he talked and everybody criticized why it's like why do you go on this guy's show because he's crazy and Heiser said why not I'm gonna bring the truth and I'm gonna have a conversation so that was part of the criticism that was there. But this is what he said. He said the biblical answer is that the heavenly host was with God before creation. In fact they witnessed it which means that when God created the heavens and the earth that the heavens and created he created all that heavenly host that was there. Job 384 through seven says that in fact that verse says where were you this 384 where were you when I laid the foundation talking to Job God talking to Job when I laid the foundations of the earth tell me if you have understanding who determined its measurements surely you know or who stretched the line upon it of course he's he's kind of being sarcastic to Job here because Job just knows everything to to what were its foundations fastened or who laid its cornerstone when the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy. So that's the implication that's that Benny Halloween that that they're those people are part of the heavenly host that was there. So the sons of God is a phrase used to identify divine beings with higher level responsibilities or jurisdictions. Now he makes that conclusion based on his analysis of the the Hebrew Bible okay and and the term angel he says Maloch means messenger is a lesser divine being and these are not like divine beings like God these are angels so you have a hierarchy of angels now he's implying that from a couple of verses so that's where that's where it gets a little bit you know a little sketchy you go okay because he uses this verse Psalm 82 verse one God stands in the congregation of the mighty he judges among the gods how long will you judge unjustly and show partiality to the wicked Selah defend the poor and the fatherless do justice to the afflicted and needy deliver the poor and needy free them from the hand of the wicked for they do not know nor do they understand. They walk about in darkness all the foundations of the earth are unstable verse six I said you are gods and all of you are children of the Most High, but you shall die like men and fall like one of the princes arise O God, judge the earth for you shall inherit all nations you know what most people do with that verse? They skip over that one and go to the next one. Because it's just hard to explain all that what are we talking about here? So Heiser says this the text is not clear whether all of the Elohim are under judgment or just some the idea of Elohim ruling the nations under God's authority is a biblical concept that's described in other passages not many, but maybe a few sufficient that you know that the sons of God were these divine beings directly under the authority of God. I think that feeds into Daniel with Daniel talks about the prince of Persia the prince of Greece all of that I I think I think Michael Hydra got a point there is a world out there that we don't know about the spiritual world. Well remember Ezekiel also um there was the the context where the king of Tyre thought he was a god yeah but it was because the prince of Tyre had made him think he was a god yeah and that the the um and he's he's also part of what is feeding his thinking in this the ancient world in uh the Mesopotamian ancient world the ancient Near East all of the cities all of the countries were cosmic states they all had some god that ruled them and particularly in Mesopotamia the NC was this priest god sort of priest king and he would communicate with the God and the God would tell him what to do that's why they built those those towers and all that going probably all the way back to that's why Hollywood makes so many movies around that all yeah all the way back to Genesis where where the Garden of Eden was likely on a mountain and that you worship God in this high play all that and because that seems to be a universal thing. So so he's that's what's kind of getting his thinking going I think he's got a point uh I had come to the same conclusion years back that that and it seems that in a lot of these areas the name of the country might change and some of the people involved in that country might change but the spirit of that thing just manifests in the same stuff you know and often these countries that just have and it's like there is just this thing over an area that that controls stuff. Now the glorious thing to me is that Jesus has the name above all names he's above all that stuff. And uh and Jesus is and this is where it gets a little hinky because Jesus is called the Son of God you know so so you have to be careful realizing that and and he was called the only son of God. So what's this stuff? This stuff is obviously levels of angels all of that stuff that's there in a fairly obscure verse uh that that that we can speculate about that all of that's there but Jesus is well beyond all of that Jesus was not just one of those guys Jesus was in the Godhead he was God you know he's God the Son is God the Father God the Son God the Holy Spirit all of that in the Trinity and in the New Testament he's called the only Son of God the unique son of God and in that sense there's a there's a uniqueness about Jesus that separates him from all this other stuff. He's not just an angel you know he's he's son of God he he is he is God in the flesh that's just that's what we believe as Christians that's that's what's there. So that's where people can get really confused when you start talking about this whole son of God so you know all that it and Jesus is the unique son of God and he has been given the name above all names and then all of the principalities powers dominions which is probably what all this stuff is in whatever that realm is out there uh he's over all that and and uh so we don't have to worry about it you know as Christians we don't have to freak out about all this stuff because we can go name of Jesus and we're good to go you know it name of Jesus and and whatever's out there has to submit to that so but but it it you just have to be careful and I and I think the the danger in some of this is that people want to take this too far and they somehow want to say well well you know maybe Jesus is just one of these no he's not there's something different about all of that and that that's something very important to understand in Christianity well the um I I think um we kind of come to a a moment where we probably need to land the plane but this this has been this has been really I I think helpful uh there's a lot of areas I think people can turn to for uh further insight or understanding that are actually there in the scriptures and um you don't have to be a theologian to read your Bible uh you you you if you if you have a Bible that you can understand you can open it and actually begin to read it and ask the author and the giver of that to make it understandable to you.

SPEAKER_02 33:29

That would be one of the first and simplest uh steps that a person could take and you know Psalm 19 talks about how the word of God is pure it's clean it's right all together and um the Lord is able to take us and and and speak to our hearts in ways that we need and helps us not live in fear it helps us not to be governed by all kinds of other outside influences that are around us many times and that we began to acquaint ourselves with a living God. He's not made with men's hands he's not made with silver and gold and wood and stone and different things he's not like when Paul went to Athens and Acts 17 and and they had the unknown God you know Paul understood and knew who the living God was and he said well I know who he is and I know his address so you know it's an hour of time that people if you're gonna if you're gonna search out your spirituality I recommend that you do it in a way that is uh already complete and already finished and Jesus Christ is the one that has already made the way he's already brought the life and he's already established for us what the truth is that makes us free and um and he's gonna take you to the Father he's not just gonna take you to a generic God you're not gonna end up hugging a tree you're not gonna end up holding a rock in your hand you're not gonna end up you know with with you know just gazing into the stars at night you're gonna actually get to know a living God. Yeah and so Artie would you close us in prayer today and thank and thank you again for taking the time to join us and tune in with us today. And uh we love it when you take the time as we're taking the time to walk through this and work through some of these things. So Artie close us in prayer.

SPEAKER_01 35:41

Lord we thank you for the the gift of your son to us who came to the earth and died for our sins. Lord that we might be forgiven that we might have access to go through that door Jesus is the door we ask you Father to help us exalt him in the world. Lord help us be faithful to what he said when he said go preach and make disciples Lord help us always to keep that primary and the first thing that we would do as Christians that we would preach the gospel and make disciples. Help us Lord to be faithful to that commandment and thank you Lord for all you've done for us all you will do for us and eternity that you've promised us. We pray in Jesus' name amen.

SPEAKER_02 36:30

Amen I want to say thank you to Sammy and Michaela for all they do to make this happen and make this possible so you can enjoy the benefits of it. So God bless have a wonderful week