SPEAKER_00 0:04

Welcome to Lambs and Company, a podcast about life. We will feature guests and friends on the podcast to have quality conversations and wonderful fellowship. We hope you will join us. It's a life worth living, and it's a life worth giving well, good morning.

SPEAKER_01 0:27

Welcome to another Lambs and Company. And as we've said all along, a life worth living is a life worth giving. And part of what we want to dive into today is something that Hollywood over the last 40 years has really uh I think dramatized and and created quite a narrative that people are uh attracted to. And some of it started back with Rosemary's baby, and then it went from there to the exorcists, and Lord knows where it's gone from all of that. And um but one of the things from a biblical standpoint uh that we need to understand, um and that's what we want to talk about today, we want to talk about uh the areas of biblical oppression and demonic activity that's not from Hollywood but it's from everyday life, and most of the people that are oppressed and have to deal with it don't even realize what it is because they've never really been told or taught. And then oftentimes they fall into a trap of feeling like I can't get help now that this is working in my life, because the narrative has almost been created today in society from a worldview that the devil is bigger than God. And that's that's truly a lie. Matter of fact, that's one of the things that we are going to address today is for the fact that what Jesus said, that Satan is the father of lies and the truth's not in him. But Jesus also said in the same chapter, in chapter eight of John's gospel, that it's the truth that sets you free. And one of the com part of the great commission that Jesus gave before his ascension, but it was after his death, burial, and resurrection, was over the fact that these uh this is what believers do. In Mark 16, it says, Those that believe shall be saved, but those that believe not shall be damned. And it says they shall lay hands on the sick, and the sick will recover. That was a part of Christ's ministry and mission. It says that they will cast out demons or devils. That was a part of the thing we see demonstrated in Jesus' ministry. You know, we we see this, it begins uh from really the activity or the manifestation of this. A lot of people miss is I don't think the devil knows as much as he likes people to believe he knows. And here's why. When Herod found out the wise men were coming in the Gospels, and they were looking for following a star, and what that star was connected with was a Messiah, Herod didn't know who it was, they didn't know who it was. And matter of fact, when they finally found Mary and Joseph and Jesus in the manger that they discovered him because of it being they being led there and it was revealed to them, when they realized what was happening to the degree that they understood, they made a choice and a decision not to go back the way they had come and report to Herod. And as a result of that, Herod was very angered with the wise men, but he also basically put out a note of execution on every male child that was two years or younger. If he'd have known who Jesus was, if the devil knew everything, then why did he go after an entire generation of people in that location instead of just the one person? Because he doesn't really know. And Colossians chapter 1 and verse 13 tells us that we are translated out of the powers of darkness into the kingdom of his dear son. I believe that the moment that happens for every believer, that there's an authority that is in your life, that is your authority, but it's the authority of what Christ accomplished and did. Because when Jesus went through the whole process of the death, the burial, resurrection, Jesus, one of the things he said from the cross, the last words he said is it's finished. What was finished? His mission, his assignment, the will of the Father. And he had to take the route of death, burial, and resurrection. But when he did, he also knew ascension would follow. And in between the resurrection and the ascension, he gave delegated authority back to the newborn church that was being birthed so that we would continue his mission and his ministry. One of the things that Paul says in Ephesians chapter 6 is put on the whole armor of God. And he said, You have a sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of God, and He said, A shield of faith, which quenches all the fiery darts of the wicked one. It says all, not some, all. That means it's our responsibility to understand and to know and to grow in the Word of God so that we don't allow the adversary to take advantage of us unnecessarily through oppression, through deceit, through lying, and through the old nature. Because the new creation brings you and me into this place of amazing grace that Paul writes about in Ephesians chapter 2 and verse 6 through 8. And it also addresses the purpose of that in Ephesians chapter 1, verse 5 and 6. So one of the things is how is it that we're seated in heavenly places with Christ Jesus our Lord as a new creature and as part of the new creation, and we continue to be governed, controlled, manipulated by much of what the enemy does. I want to get already involved in this whole thing and a discussion because we've been covering some interesting areas biblically, but that's what we want to do. We want to stay with what God's word says. It's not speculation, it's not just, it's not uh just an imagination that we've created. It comes from the authority of the scriptures and the counsel of God. We're told in 2 Timothy chapter 2 and verse 15 that we need to study to show ourselves to proved, workmen that need not to be ashamed. And one of the tactics and one of the biggest weapons the enemy uses in people's life is their old nature, their old man before they're born again of shame, embarrassment, humiliation, and he adds to that condemnation. But remember what Romans chapter 8 and verse 1 says that therefore there is now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the spirit. We could say it like this: my old nature is the flesh, my new creation or my new nature is the spirit. It's because you have to be born of the spirit, according to what Jesus said to Nicodemus in John 3, verse 3. And so today, as we we jump into this, my hope is you understand your authority as a person. There was a man that was known as Mr. Pentecost, David Duplacy. And he believed that part of Mark 16 was not so other people would have to come and deal with demonic stuff in your life. He believed that every believer had the right to deal with the demonic stuff that they recognized that was a part of their old life, that they had the authority in Christ to address it and to deal with it. And I would tend to agree with that, but I also would attend, uh I would also say that we learn from the patterns and from the ministry of Jesus. And one of the first places, and I have to laugh about this sometimes, one of the first places Jesus addressed the demonic was after his baptism. And Jesus ends up going for 40 days into the wilderness. He's led by the Spirit of God, and then on the conclusion or the backside of the 40 days, he ends up being uh taken by Satan himself, and he's taken through different temptations or tests. Every one of those he addressed by the word of God. Jesus said it's written. Part of the problem the church faces today is we don't even know what's written. We're spending more time researching and outsourcing with other stuff other than this right here. If you can learn all of this and you can become acquainted with this and the God who inspired it, and the God who lifted it and breathed life into it, it would so benefit your life and my life in so many of the battles of life that we face every day. I'm going to hush up. But I get this is this is a this is something that's personal to me because I was not always a follower of Jesus Christ. And I can clearly say this that my life was a mess. I was under the influence of darkness. I know that I was around demonic stuff because of the nature of what was going on. And I don't even want to go into the details of it because of the shame of what the enemy does in people's lives. But I can tell you this: you can't talk to somebody that's been set free and tell them that's not real. My grandmother was a God-fearing woman who loved her to read and studied the word of God and meditated in the word of God. But there were a lot of things she didn't know, and she was a part of a denomination that did not really address these things as current events and a part of real life in real time. And when I came to Christ and we started talking, she tried to tell me that her pastor said that some of the stuff that I was involved in at that moment was of the devil. And I said, and her name was Tanny. And I said, Tany, I said, I don't know your pastor, no disrespect to him. But I can tell you this: I know the difference between the devil and between the Lord Jesus Christ. And if it was the devil, I don't think he would have me giving praise and honor and glory to Jesus Christ and to God the Father by the life of the Spirit that's in me, if it were the devil. Because the devil cannot divide his own house, and he will not divide his own house. It weakens what he's doing. In the four gospels, unclean spirit is mentioned twenty different times, depending on the variation of translation you may use. Demonic is used thirty times, devil is used ten times. That's sixty times that the character or the nature of the adversary is recorded in the gospels. The reason it's there is to help you and I realize this stuff is real, it's a problem, it's troublesome, it harasses people, it torments people, it agitates people, and oftentimes we want to write it off or we want to dismiss it as something that's just hereditary. And it could be hereditary in the sense that a lot of the things you and I learn is because we learned it from our parents or some other family member, but it wasn't because of somebody that was following the Lord Jesus Christ. That is the old nature and the old man, not the new man in Christ. And the moment that you come to Christ, you and I have to begin to unlearn while we learn at the same time. So I want to just pray and then ask Hardy to jump in and begin to just add to this or straighten anything out that he needs to straighten out. But I'm I'm just telling you, if you and I understand this, you will understand what Jesus was saying in 1 John 3:8. That for this reason was the Son of God made manifest to destroy the works of the devil. And you see Jesus in Mark 1, he comes into Capernaum and goes into the synagogue, which he was, you know, going to do because he was actually abiding in the law of God before the people. But the moment he walks in, first time recorded in the Gospels, and immediately a man begins to cry out, but it records and it tells you it's not just the natural man. It said, the spirit in the man cried out and said, Jesus of Nazareth, why have you come here to torment us? And Jesus said, Shut up. And then Jesus ended up commanding the spirit to come out of the man, and he said he convulsed, and the spirit came out of him. Isn't it amazing that that was in what we would call church that that happened? Other words, the devil will hide in some very obvious and open places, and because he hides in those places, people dismiss that it's ever the enemy working in their life. But it's time that the church be alert, that we wake up, we be sober-minded, and we not continue into oppression and the bondages and the snares and the traps that the enemy laid for our lives, and we began to walk in the freedom and the liberty of the Lord Jesus Christ. Father, I pray this word today would be meaningful, beneficial, profitable. It would bring great release and peace to people. If people are listening today and they hear something that just causes them to go into attention and alert, good. Let them know that your desire is to establish the mind of Christ in them and the peace of God in their mind as well as in their heart. If any person is watching and listening today, Father, that has been agitated, tormented, and needs that freedom and that release. We're asking that the continuation of your ministry of Luke 4, 18, would take place, that you would set the captive free in Jesus' name. Amen. So Artie, jump in. You you've heard it, you've heard it.

SPEAKER_03 17:10

I mean good introduction. It it uh uh the whole idea of the the the study theologically of demons uh it is called demonology. And what's usually interesting is that most seminaries just leave that part out. Uh you know, I took a number of systematic theology classes through the years, and I don't know that we ever particularly dealt with that very much. It just didn't happen a whole lot. I mean, it's there, and obviously there there's uh you know, there's the the biblical theology of of all of the evil world, and and that's just kind of what the Bible says about it. And then there's the systematic analysis. I mean, one of the one of the questions generally uh that that comes up in in systematic theology is what's a demon? You know, what what are they anyway?

SPEAKER_01 18:04

You know, you it's normally not your husband or wife either.

SPEAKER_03 18:07

Yeah, you know, you you just like what's a demon? Because it it the you have these you know, in in the Bible you have Satan, you have the angels that that fell with Satan, and but where did demons come from? And and the Old Testament word, there's two words primarily in the Old Testament that refer to demons. One's the word shed is probably the word that's uh shed shedim, it's the word that's more frequently used, and it relates to uh bulls. But it it it's just kind of interesting that it's related to an animal, but shedim, and and it's when you're sometimes there'd be sacrifices or just these evil things going on. The other the other word in the old testament is Saire, sometimes translated demon. Uh there are a couple other things too, but those are the two primary words, and uh it is related to goats. See, so it is interesting that that often when you look at idolatry in the Old Testament, it relates to bulls and goats. It it just seems this seems to be part of the manifestation that's there. Uh, because uh uh Saire is like the is where satyr, it's the idea of a satyr, which is sort of this half goat, half man kind of thing in mythology. Uh and you know, a lot of the stuff going on in mythology probably has some sort of demonic roots. Uh in the New Testament, uh, two primary words, same thing, really. One is daimon, which is where the English word demon comes from. Daimonion is the same thing, it's just kind of a different, got slightly different spelling. And then the reference to unclean spirits that will frequently be there as well. Uh, though that's sort of the way you refer to demons in in the New Testament. But none of that particularly explains the question. What's a demon? You know, it it and there have been various theories about it. Uh, one of the places to go, and and some of that is is some of the theories are sort of extra-biblical. In Jude, the fifth chapter, uh, or fifth verse, excuse me, it says this, but I want to remind you, though you once knew this, that the Lord having saved people out of the hand of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe. And the angels, who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, he has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day. As Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality, and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. Likewise also these dreamers defile the flesh, reject authority, speak evil of dignitaries, that could be earthly dignitaries, or also just in the spiritual realm. Yet Michael, the archangel, in contending with the devil, when he disputed about the body of Moses, this is you know, it's the only place in the Bible we really know about what went on with that, dared not bring in act uh a reviling accusation against him, but said, The Lord rebuke you. But these speak evil of whatever they do not know, and whatever they know naturally, like brute beast in these things, they corrupt themselves. Woe to them, for they have gone in the way of Cain, have run greedily in the area error of Balaam the pro for prophet, and perished in the rebellion of Korah. So that in the book of Revelation that speaks of a third of the angels that followed Satan. And Satan is the is the Hebrew word for the accuser, and it sometimes you'll find that he'll be the accuser. And uh Diabolos in Greek is the equivalent of that, the accuser. It's the same thing, slanderer, accuser. Uh the the uh the Aramaic term is akelkarza, which means the the the devourer of parts. And it's the way the the idiom in Aramaic for slander is to eat somebody eat eat the parts. It's like you eat them up.

SPEAKER_01 22:34

And and uh ask you something. Uh uh don't lose your thought here. But you think that that's part of what Paul in Galatians was talking about in the fifth chapter where he said you bite and devour one another?

SPEAKER_03 22:49

Yeah, it's probably a demonic kind of thing. And it does seem to be connected with it. That seems to be activity, particularly in slandering and all of that, is sort of interrelated. But there are you have Michael, you have Gabriel. So you've got you've got the in he's called uh it it's really it's like Hilel, Halel in the Old Testament, I think Halel, um, where it's translated Lucifer, and and it means like splendid one or shining one in in the Old Testament Isaiah. Light bearer. Yeah, light bearer, and that's Lucifer, is is sort of a Latin equivalent of that. So that's where that name comes from. But then also in the Old Testament, it's just he's the accuser. So he seems to be the head honcho of a bunch of angels. Michael is leader of a bunch of angels, and Gabriel must be. He's like the messenger angel or whatever. But that's really all we know from the Bible. You know, a lot of the other stuff that people talk about is just it's usually extra-biblical. The the early Jews developed this long, elaborate system of angels and minor angels and major and just all kinds of stuff. And they came up with all kinds of names of angels that may or may not be true. And and uh so the the question sort of is, well, is a demon a fallen angel? That seems to be the the general answer there, but that doesn't particularly explain the behavior, it seems, of these things. I mean, it so can this angel somehow uh inhabit a person, or do they just have great influence over the person, or you know, how does it work? Uh and the other idea was that when these angels that fell, the sons of God, daughters of men, all of that in the Old Testament, they created the Nephilim, these fallen ones that were sort of this hybrid human angel thing, and that those spirits, their sort of disembodied spirits, look for other spirits. That's kind of a stretch, but that that's just that's one of the ideas that somehow it was a disembodied thing, or you know, that happened uh uh and after the flood, or or just an angel. I I for me, I uh they seem to just be angels. And part of that is that that there seems to be big shot angels, you know. I mean, that's Gabriel and Michael, they're just big shot angels. I guess Satan was too. And then there are a bunch of other angels, we don't know how many. You know, the the figures are like thousands and thousands and thousands, you know. So there are a lot of them in all those third groups. So uh, and yeah, the Bible speaks of the the the rulers of darkness, the you know, the principalities and the powers and the dominions and all that in this in the in the in the this kingdom of darkness doesn't explain a whole lot about that either. And so I mean it's there. It there obviously is this unseen world that we don't know about, or we don't know a lot of details. So uh I I to to just outright deny, well, there's nothing to that. It's just there's there no that that doesn't exist. That's not wise. I the Bible is clear that there's just this unseen world, there's the kingdom of darkness, kingdom of God, you're gonna build one side of the other. And uh, and then the the life of Jesus where he deals with this, there seems to be this influence, demonic influence in people, that it's sometimes like it'll cause a sickness, sometimes it it seems to cause some sort of mental illness, sometimes it it causes just unclean activity. Just and and he casts things out. He'll just cast these these demons out. You know, the the the man that had a legion, he just apparently had this huge group, and and uh and Jesus cast all these demons out, and they and and as the story goes, they went into the herd of swine, and the swine just all committed suicide, just went over the cliff. And uh uh you just I don't know, you know, I it i to try to elaborate on that beyond what just is there, and and has has there been it since now and all that was before the cross, has there been a change after the cross since Jesus led captivity captive? He has overcome death, hell, and the grave, he has overcome the devil. So I I think we're looking at this from the point of view of victory, that Jesus has won this victory. And I think that's an important aspect in this. We have a tendency to want to fight the devil, and but the devil's defeated, and and about the only thing he's got left is lying in deceit. And and he does that real well. And that that is where I think we just because the the battlefield, you know, what's a fiery dart? You know, can the devil just pitch thoughts into your mind somehow? Apparently. Uh, and and you just have to and the battlefield that we often have as Christians is our mind. And you know, the the enemy comes, he'll throw stuff in there or whatever. You know, I don't I don't know that that there, I mean there are. There there really probably are just just demon-possessed people, whatever that means, as to whether there's some inhabiting or whatever's going on with that. Because I mean, Jesus, the implication is there's some, they just live in there because Jesus threw them out. You know, that seems to be what's implied in the text. And uh there apparently people like that.

SPEAKER_01 28:30

Yeah, you know, um, didn't you go? Would you were you we were on the same trip in 1986 when we went to Jamaica?

SPEAKER_03 28:41

Were you on that trip? I think I was on a different one.

SPEAKER_01 28:43

Okay, yeah. Well, I I know in 1986, um we went on a mission trip to Jamaica, never saw the place where everybody goes on vacation. We were in old Kingston.

SPEAKER_02 28:54

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:55

And we were in the marketplace, and it was during the time of apartheid in South Africa, and um um so there was a lot of um there was a lot of activity going on. And anyway, we were down in the marketplace, and there was this guy, and I mean it kind of looked like out of Robinson Crusoe. I mean, literally he was barefooted, his long pants were literally like rotting out at the bottom and everything. Yeah, and he was almost hunching down, you know, the little character in uh in the um uh the um recent series that was done uh that was about good and evil. Yeah um there was a little character in there that had the ring, the Lord of the Rings. You remember that thing, Lord of the Rings, and and the guy, the more he put the ring on, the more he had changed his personality and stuff like that. And he lost it, lost control of it, and then he wanted it back when uh Frodo got it. Right. And um, so anyway, um the place I'm going with this is this guy had a kind of a blend between that character and Robinson Crusoe's condition on the island. He it really looked rough, and he was bouncing around almost like close to all fours. Yeah, and it was the middle of the day, yeah, and everybody was walking around this guy, and they weren't paying a whole lot of attention to him. So I just thought, you know what, I'm gonna walk over and talk to him. And um when I tried to walk over to him, he would he would withdraw himself. And I thought, man, this guy's got some problems here. And uh, but then what got my attention was when I would turn my back, he would come up behind me and he'd say, gonna kill you and cut you up. And I'm thinking, well, I'd have a problem then. I mean, literally was saying this, yeah, and the man that was with us leading us around said, Don't don't worry about him. He's just he's just a guy that lives here in the city and he's crazy. And and immediately I thought of the demoniac in in uh Luke 5. Yeah, yeah, and I thought, this guy's really demon-possessed.

unknown 31:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:20

And he he really needs help. But every time I turned to look at him and try to walk towards him, he just immediately pulled, he'd back off, he'd move away. He wouldn't let anybody get close to him. But yet, if you turned away from him and you weren't looking, he'd try to come right up behind you. And I just thought, well, we've got to keep moving. But it was just, it was one of those moments I remember it kind of stood out to me.

SPEAKER_03 31:44

Well, it's just sort of a modern day example of the exact stuff Jesus was dealing with in the Old Testament or the New Testament. And and I, you know, the the body of Christ, the church has had a tendency to go too far one way or the other. Exactly. You know, there's either, oh, there are no demons at all, or everything's a demon. You know, just sickness is a demon, mental illness is a demon. When you yell at your husband, you got a demon, you and then we just casting out, we just casting demons out of everything. And and that's nonsense. That's too much. But on the other side, if you deny it altogether, then you're missing out a whole aspect of the supernatural world. And and I I the it is a it is a balance trying to figure out, and it takes, that's why you have to have discernment. That's why Jesus gave us the gift of the spirit of discernment to really understand what am I dealing with? Is this really, you know, am I looking at this person and there's something else in there talking to me? Or is this just a mental illness? Is this someone that has a chemical imbalance or some of the things that can cause, you know, mental problems? Because not all mental problems are demonic. Or is this a is this just a anger moment in somebody's personality or whatever? You know, but that's what discernment is. Discernment lets you know what you are dealing with and and and what's there. And uh I think we we just have to have a balance in that and recognize that that we are dealing with this from the point of view of victory, that Jesus has led captivity captive. He has overcome the devil. He's overcome all of this stuff. There was never a time when Jesus met a demon and said, Well, I'm gonna leave you alone. You know, it it just that they would they couldn't stand it. They just have to, they'd manifest, they'd show themselves, and then he'd just cast them out. You know, and and and uh the all and where trouble comes in is like the seven sons of of where they were trying to cast out demons in the name of Jesus or Paul, the name of Jesus that Paul preaches, and it didn't work because they weren't really believers apparently, or they or they were just because they really were in uh in the early Jewish culture, there were people that went around and supposedly cast out devils and cast out demons. Uh uh you know, it it it it and the Roman Catholic Church in fact has a ritual for casting out a demon. It just you know, it has to be a bishop, I think, to do it and all that, but but it there's a there is a a ritual for that. And uh, you know, and if you get if you get out of the United States, sometimes the demonic thing is a little more obvious. Uh here most of them, I think, have on a suit, coat, and tie. You know, it it it just it looks a little more dressed up, and it's not quite, but it's the same thing, you know.

SPEAKER_01 34:45

Yeah, you know, um I know you know who Dr. Francis McNutt is. Yeah. And uh he went to be with the Lord, I think, in 2020. I think he passed away, but he'd been a uh Catholic uh priest, he'd been one of their theologians, he he was one of the guys that was like the shell answer man, you know, if they had theological questions, he was one of the guys they turned to. But in the process of his diligence to the scriptures, he ended up being in Jerusalem on an uh archaeolog and he he ended up meeting uh Judith, who he later ended up leading the priesthood over, and Marion and Judith McNutt. And um, but one of the things that Francis did he was he started out his early education at Harvard and then he went on to Washington um and got his doctorate degree and stuff like that. And um, but I he wrote several very uh impacting books, and I felt they were well done because they were not only uh informative, they were very biblical based. And but he made an interesting statement. He said, I believe that probably 30 percent of people sitting in congregations need to understand the power of Christ to bring release and freedom to their life. Other words, they're not possessed, yeah, but they definitely are oppressed. And you know, Acts 10.38 says how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth, who went about doing good and healing all those who were sick and oppressed of the devil.

unknown 36:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:30

And so um, one of the things that uh amazes me in our moment that we're in in the body of Christ is there's been almost a revolt or a rejection of some of the areas of ministry that the Holy Spirit wants to provide in our life. The same Holy Spirit that births us into the family. We were almost told in a lot of circles, stay away from this. This is dangerous.

SPEAKER_02 37:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:02

Well, that's odd because that's that one thing that Christ said has come to your life and my life that will lead you, guide you, correct you, comfort you in all areas of truth. And so why would I want to stay away from that? And I heard Dr. Um Robert Gordon, who um was one of the professors at King's College in England and Old Testament, and I heard him back in 1992, I think, and I was in Dundee, Scotland, and with John Carr at a conference at John Carr's church there in Dundee, Scotland. And uh he they Robert Gordon uh had come into a fuller expression of the life of the spirit, it changed his whole life. But he did a teaching and he talked about uh uh he talked about how um in German geist means ghost. He said, and at the time the movie poltergeist had come out. Well, he said, obviously nobody wants a poltergeist in your life. And he said, so he said that's why he didn't really use the term ghost, like holy ghost. He said, old King James used holy ghost and stuff like that. He said, I don't like to use that term ghost because ghost gives more of a frightening connotation to it. And he said, I understand people don't want something that's scary in their life, and he said they don't want a geist in their life, they don't want a poltergeist, especially in their life, but but they you know, but the thing is, think about this holy ghost, yeah, holy spirit. Yeah, everybody, if you want help, then God has given us the Holy Spirit to help lead us, guide us, and bring us into levels of freedom and release from areas of captivity that we didn't realize were bondage to our life. And I don't know why anybody would want to be resistant to that or refuse or reject that, yeah, or even argue with that, because that really, the moment we get into arguing against the knowledge of God, Paul said in 2 Corinthians chapter 10 and verse 3, 4, and 5, he said that's a stronghold. Yeah, he said he said literally that's a stronghold. And again, that was the place that you were talking about, our imagination and our mind. Yeah, it's there. And people don't understand that sometimes. And um, we would better be served by the help of the Holy Spirit and also submitting ourselves to God first, which James 4, 7 said, you know, if you want to resist the devil, then the first step is to submit yourself to God.

SPEAKER_02 39:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:50

Well, so if you submit yourself to God, then in submitting yourself to God, you're saying, Holy Spirit, you're the teacher that Jesus Christ has left to help assist and aid and direct and guide me into areas of all truth.

SPEAKER_02 40:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:05

So I'm asking that you come and help do this in my life. And, you know, I just think there's a lot in this particular area that is untapped riches in Christ, as Paul said in Ephesians. Yeah. I think it's untapped riches that the current modern-day church needs to recognize and discover because Hebrews 13, 8 says, Jesus Christ is same yesterday, today, and forever. And we need the ministry of Christ and the Lordship and the life of Jesus Christ and the liberty that Jesus brings to us. Boy, I tell you, our culture and society right now, they need it. Yeah, they need it. I mean, yeah, it there's so much to be said, but could you close us out? You know, any last thoughts and close us up in prayer?

SPEAKER_03 40:54

Well, I I think the the thing to recognize, first of all, Jesus has overcome all this. Exactly. He has the name above all names. In the name of Jesus, all whatever this evil is, it has to flee. It has to go in Jesus' name. So we should always remember that. I mean, we, you know, if you're in trouble, help me, Jesus. That that's that's the key in a lot of that. I think the other thing is to recognize that there is, as a culture begins to deny the existence of God and become secular, much like ours has, or or move in a different direction or move in a different direction of spirituality, where they're just sort of open to all kinds of stuff, you're going to begin to see evil spirits present in the culture. You know, if you look around, the the some of what we deal with now in the culture, some of it is just clearly demonic. From a Christian perspective, you look at that and think, that's just evil, that's just evil. And you and you just see the manifestation of that evil. The other seems to be mental illness. And sometimes I think you can have a combination of both. And if you're dealing with something where a logical, rational answer does nothing to actually win the argument. If you've got a logical argument, you present your case, they present their case, their case is nonsense, your case is true, and you have true and nonsense. When you got folks that choose to believe nonsense, they they believe in nonsense, they preach nonsense, they they are just absolutely assured that this nonsense is true, but it's nonsense. When you have that, that is either partially just mental illness, I think sort of a delusion, uh cultural delusion, but also some of that's just demonic. Yeah, and there's no there's no reason why, because a normal person who's thinking, you present the evidence of the truth, they'll say, Oh, okay, you know, they'll they'll be convinced by that. But a person that is just uh can either be mentally ill, and again, uh not all mental illness is demonic, but I I think sometimes there can be a combination of demonic and mental ill or just demonic. And uh, if you decide you don't want Jesus, if you decide you don't want God, you open yourself up for the other side.

SPEAKER_01 43:32

Yeah, there's no there is no there is no way to liberty and freedom.

SPEAKER_03 43:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:36

Because you can't talk yourself out of this stuff.

SPEAKER_03 43:38

Nope.

SPEAKER_01 43:39

There really is a thing. It has to be you know, the bloodline of it has to be broken. The new creation has to establish the authority and the place and and the privilege to be able to be free. Yeah, and that's what I've come to realize. It's like what Paul said in 2 Corinthians chapter 4 and verse 4, he said that if their mind Be blinded, and he called it their mind of everything. He said it's blinded by the God of this world, little G. In other words, there's no way to get past that until you're born again. And the moment you're born again, then the Lord begins to pull the scales back or pull the blinders off, so to speak, so you can begin to see the truth, and it's the truth that makes you free. And Jesus said, you know, I am the way, I'm the truth, I'm the life. No man comes to the Father except by me.

SPEAKER_03 44:30

You know, the Lord designed Christianity so it works with Jesus. If you're trying to do Christianity without Jesus, it's not going to work. Well, close us out in prayer already. Okay. Lord, thank you for your victory over death, over hell, over the devil. Lord, thank you for setting us free from these influences. Lord, thank you for opening our eyes. And we pray, Father, that you would open the eyes of those who are blinded by the God of this age, that you would open their eyes, that they would be open to the gospel of Christ, and that they would hear the gospel, respond to the gospel, and turn away from evil works and from uh from evil spirits and all of the things that are there that that create difficulties in our culture and in their lives. Set people free, Father. By your Holy Spirit, we ask you to help us, Lord, as a nation, help us, Lord, as churches, help us, Lord, as Christians to have discernment and understanding into what's going on, what we're dealing with, and how to apply the name of Jesus to all these things. And we pray this prayer in the name of Jesus. Amen.

SPEAKER_01 45:46

Amen. Thank you, Artie. And thank you for taking the time to listen a little bit longer today, but it's okay because there was a lot put into this. I pray you hear it. And remember, a life worth living is a life worth giving. God bless you.