SPEAKER_00 0:04

Welcome to Lambs and Company, a podcast about life. We will feature guests and friends on the podcast to have quality conversations and wonderful fellowship. We hope you will join us. It's a life worth living, and it's a life worth giving.

SPEAKER_03 0:24

Hey, welcome to another Lambs and Company. Um, a life worth living is a life worth giving, and that's uh that's something that we're trying to to follow and follow through the the counsel of God's word and just the the the real nature that the Lord has given us through his word and the importance of the word. And matter of fact, that brings us to a place that we want to talk this morning. Um here with Dr. Hall. And um he and I out of our friendship relationship, I won't refer to him all the time as Dr. Hall. I just call him Artie, and he calls me Ronnie. But uh we we want to address something that uh really is uh happening, it's a happening thing that it's not new, but it's in our lifetime it's reached a whole new level. And it's the level of deception, yeah, it's the level of delusion. And this is something that's actually addressed by the apostle Paul or Paul the Apostle um in Second Thessalonians chapter two, and we're gonna look specifically at the verse, but I want to just give you a little background uh before we jump into that, because uh uh who are the Thessalonians? The Thessalonians were actually a uh a group that Paul went to on one of his missionary journeys, and when he went, uh and he first addressed them, you see them in Acts chapter 17 and verse 1. And he ends up speaking three consecutive uh Sabbaths, which was a custom that Paul often would do is go to the synagogue for three consecutive weeks. And then he began to address the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. And anytime he did that, uh, there was always people that seemed to be receptive to that, but there are always people that seemed to reject that. So understand the thing about the gospel, the gospel's good news, but it doesn't mean everybody will accept it. Matter of fact, in 2 Thessalonians 3:2, it said uh all men don't have faith. Actually, some people are wicked, and that's clearly there in what Paul was saying, and so um this morning as we jump into this, I just don't want to um do too much on the introduction, but but in 1 Thessalonians 1, verse 8 and 9, Paul speaks and commends the Thessalonians for their faith in Jesus Christ because they believed the gospel. And to them, uh it wasn't a just a uh a uh a message that they heard and a routine or a ritual they developed, it was a relationship that transformed their lives, and the gospel uh one of the things about the gospel of Jesus Christ is it's intended to change everybody's life. It's not meant just to make you feel good, it's meant to change our life, and God turns us and provides and makes provision through his son Jesus Christ through the gospel, a way to be turned from wrath to grace. And that's part of the thing that was addressed in uh 2 Thessalonians um is for the fact that uh God actually has made a way for us to turn from wrath, which would be like a judgment, to a place of grace. And while we have a lot of people talking about grace, and I think um grace uh i is just the best thing that can happen to every one of us, but to divorce grace from truth is a dangerous thing. And John in John's gospel in the first chapter, it talks about how the law came by Moses, but grace and truth came by the Lord Jesus Christ. And today there seems to be even in church circles an effort being made to make a grace that seems to divorce itself from truth. And you can't divorce grace and truth from each other, they're married and they were embodied in the person of Jesus Christ. And so that's one of the reasons why we want to address this topic this morning of deception and delusion that happens. And let me just read uh out of 2 Thessalonians 2 what was going on. It said, now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to him, we ask you not to be soon shaken in mind. And listen what they were shaken in mind. Paul was telling them, because he was seeing this, he said, shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit, by word, or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of the Lord or day of Christ had come. Let no one deceive you by any means, for that day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, and the son of perdition who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God, or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. Do you not remember that when I was still with you, I told you these things, and now you know what is restraining that he may be revealed in his own time. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. Only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of his mouth and destroy with the brightness of his coming. Verse 9. The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power signs and lying wonders. Verse 10, and with all unrighteous deception amongst those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. Verse 11, and this is going to be pretty much our text that we want to address, but we're gonna talk around it as well. But verse 11 in its context is, and for this reason, God will send them strong delusions that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned, who did not believe the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. And this seems to be um, this seems to be a real issue today. It seems to be a real um prevalent area in people's lives where people want their personality, they want their own will, they want their own way, they want everything. But when it comes to God's truth, a lot of times they don't want to receive that. And a lot of this is even sheltered sometimes under the name of various churches and congregations where people want to sit and they want to attend church and be affiliated with a church name, but they don't really want to be a faithful follower of Christ, where it's transforming and changing our life from unrighteousness to righteousness, from error to truth, from wrath to grace. And if we want to celebrate the grace of God that has come to us through the Lord Jesus Christ because of his death and burial and resurrection and his ascension, then we have to believe it's necessary for us to embrace the word of truth. In 2 Corinthians chapter 6 and verse 7, Paul talks about you know, it was through the word of truth, the power of God, and the breastplate of righteousness on the right hand and on the left hand. This area of delusion and deception seems to be so real right now, and it's amazing to me how people uh are doing what Paul told Timothy when he wrote Timothy, he said they're heaping to themselves, teachers, because they have itching ears, they're looking for stuff that's all new and all, but they still don't really want to embrace the truth. And Jesus is the one in John 8 that said in verse 32 and 33, he said, You'll know the truth, and the truth will make you free. And if Jesus said, I'm the way, I'm the truth, I'm the life, and we're saying that we don't want to receive Jesus, but we want freedom and we want peace and we want happiness and all these things, it's odd to me that we're trying to we're trying to do that by taking the very core out that's the very purpose and has the supremacy of life and the ability to give life and blessing to each and every one of us. You can't you can't deny that or dispose of that or discard that and embrace other areas. And our society and our culture today, in all honesty, is following a pattern that the Greek culture followed, it's following the pattern that the Roman culture followed. When a culture and a society chooses to neglect or reject God and accept era in its place, then this is where this verse actually comes into play, I believe, of 2 Thessalonians 2, 9, 2.11, where it says, and God will turn them over to strong delusion. And this is where I wanted to get Artie, because Artie's background is he, you know, he has a uh a master's in in classical Greek, but he has a doctorate in the Hebrew. So he really does a great job of understanding the the context and the contextual background, but also the language and and and much of the what was going on in that time period. And so, Artie, would you just jump in and just run with this?

SPEAKER_02 12:01

Yeah, yeah. It it uh it's a great, you know, it's a great passage. I think it probably does speak to a lot of where we are now. Uh and and immediately we read this passage, the the the audience is hearing and going, oh, oh yeah, the Antichrist, the Antichrist. We must be living in the last days. And that's not really the point of all this. That might be, maybe we are. I, you know, that things do seem different than they've been in other times in my life, but I don't know. And and uh I I think we need to rest in that. But the but the idea that we want to think there's one antichrist, you know, John said, you know, in in the the smaller letters that John wrote, that there's a spirit of the Antichrist, there's there are many antichrists, meaning amongst us. They were already amongst us. So so the idea is that anyone who puts something in the place of Christ is that Antichrist. You know, and this passage may well have been referring to something that was partially fulfilled in the past, you know, through the destruction of the Roman Empire, the Roman Emperor who did set himself up in the temple to be worshiped, and all of that that took place. So it could have been partially fulfilled in that sense. Is there yet some other thing that's going to happen in the future? You know, I don't know. It's hard to predict the future because it's the future. And and, you know, we don't know. And so I don't know about that, but I do know, listen, just reading through this passage, the the structure of it that implies there are times when God's just sovereignly, I guess, I'm not God, so I don't know, just restrains all this, just stops it so that people can receive knowledge of the truth. You know, Paul spoke of the God of this age who blinded things. And and the antichrist is the head honcho of the world system, who whoever the whoever these things are that are out there. And and uh it's the world system that's based on these anti-Christian principles or something that's set up in the place of Christ. So that that's what we always war with, and and throughout the history of uh of the world, it just seems God has sovereignly moved at times with a revival, opening the eyes of people, having a great awakening, having a great revival. There are other times when it seems very dark and and darkness seems to prevail. There's always light, there are always the people of God there somewhere. But but it's just there's just a lot of difficulties. I can't explain that. I I'm not God. I don't know how all of that interaction takes place. But I do wonder, because of one of the things you said, that that the level of deception that seems to be present in the world seems different to me. Uh now part of it is maybe there's just a the whole world is tied together in a big information scheme. You know, the with the with the whole presence of the world wide web, the internet, everything's sort of interconnected. People have portable listening devices on their person, they can communicate, they can immediately see things, they can take pictures of stuff, they can send it out. You know, and maybe we just know more stuff, and whoever has control of all that might be really the one doing a lot of the deceiving, just with pure propaganda. I mean, that that could be part of it. I I and honestly, I listen to the news and I I think sometimes, yeah, I'm not so sure this is really what's going on here. And and uh, but the difficulty about deception, you know, it and and as this Pessi says that that somehow that which restrains has been removed. So so as to whether there are times in history where there's just people have so rejected the truth, they have so because truth, the biblical definition of truth, the idea is that what it's what corresponds to reality. So it's real, it's reality. It it you these are not just words. Words have meaning and they're attached to a thing, you know, that or a concept. That there's not, you know, you can't just identify as dynamite and blow yourself up. You know, you you can't do that. You know, no, you gotta go, yeah, you gotta go find some real dynamite because it corresponds to reality. Yeah, I know that's an absurd thing, but but that's the idea that somehow you can you can say stuff and that makes it true, and it doesn't. You know, so that that's part of what the the thing that we contend with in this, but it it is a when you reject reality and the truth, of course, part of the truth of what Paul's talking about here is the truth of the gospel, that Jesus came, he died for us, he rose from the dead, and you receive that, your eyes are open, the God of this world no longer blinds your eyes and you see, you know, all of that is involved in it. And if you reject that, then you you on the other side, because there are only two, you know, you're on God's side or the other side. And and uh that's where all this comes in. It is the prime example, Saul, when he's supposed to go out and take care of the Amalekites, and he takes the spoil and it comes back, and Samuel confronts him with that. And and Samuel says, Why didn't you obey the Lord? Why didn't you obey the command of the Lord? And what's Saul's response? He says, Well, I obey the command of the Lord. When obviously he had not. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it was just obvious the guy had not because Samuel's going, I don't think so. What's all these sheep I see running around here? You know, all that, pointing out the reality that Saul was so deluded at that point, not understanding that. And I see, I see that often in leadership now. People are just deluded. They really, they seem to really believe the stuff they're saying, and you kind of go, wait a minute, that that's just not true. It doesn't correspond to reality.

SPEAKER_03 18:12

Well, that and even, you know, when you say that already, I'm thinking of what Paul told Timmy, he said, it actually comes to a place where they believe a lie for the truth.

SPEAKER_02 18:21

Yeah. And and that, and in this process that God sends them this thing, because if they it's all it's almost like, no, no, no, God, no, no, no, no, no, no. I'm not gonna receive Jesus. No, no, no, I'm not gonna be a Christian, no, no, no, no, no, no. And and eventually God says, okay. And at that point, it and it's not so much that he he actively causes something, I think he just withdraws his hand. And and that which restrains is taken away. And and when a culture, nation, country, community, group, when they say no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, for a lot of years, I wonder if that's maybe where we are in some of this.

SPEAKER_03 19:11

Well, that these are in some of my notes, and let me just throw this in with what you're saying because I think it's appropriate because the whole thing of raft and grace, because the early Christians used the gospel or were used in many ways by the gospel to bring good news to the culture. The Thessalonians themselves gave testimony, Paul gives testimony. You formerly were worshipers of idols. And so they it it touched their life, it changed their life. Yeah, but the disturbing thing historically is that the record of humanity is whenever God is rejected, the deterioration rapidly begins. And see, I think that's the picture of Romans chapter 1, verse 21 through 23. It says, Because although they knew God, they did not glorify him as God, not nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools. Yeah. And changed the glory of the incorruptible God into the image made like corruptible man.

SPEAKER_01 20:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 20:30

And birds and four-footed animals and creeping things. And in verse 21 through 23, you know, the 21st verse, you know, it just kind of gives us a picture of where we're what things are looking like right now.

SPEAKER_01 20:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 20:48

And yet, if you talk to people, you know, these are people that oftentimes have a degree, they they've got all kinds of titles with their name and everything else. But you know what? When it comes to the word of God, you know, Paul made it clear to the Corinthian church. He said, the the gospel for us is not with enticing words of men's wisdom, but it's in demonstration and power by the Holy Spirit.

SPEAKER_01 21:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:19

Other words, it's meant to change your life. It doesn't matter how trained and skilled you are, it doesn't matter how uninformed you may be, the gospel is meant to change whosoever. And if your life's not being changed, you better check and see what you got a hold of.

SPEAKER_01 21:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:39

You know, and whatnot of concern to Paul and the first 2 Corinthians 11, he said, I'm concerned for you, Corinthians, least somebody actually has beguiled you or deceived you like Eve was deceived, yeah, with another spirit or another gospel.

unknown 21:58

Right.

SPEAKER_03 21:58

And Yet it wasn't really the gospel.

SPEAKER_01 22:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:02

It was a substitute that people were given. And it seems to me today, Artie, that a lot of people are grabbing a hold of all kinds of stuff. And yet it's it's it's doctrine. Yeah. But is it because you can find in the scriptures doctrines of God, doctrines of Christ, doctrines of men, and doctrines of demons. Oh, yeah. So which doctrine do you really have a hold of? Because every doctrine's not a doctrine of God and a doctrine of Christ. And a lot of doctrines are being manufactured by men that actually will eventually fail and fall under the influence of the demonic.

SPEAKER_01 22:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:43

Which James said wisdom that is natural is earthly, soulish, and where it's natural or sensual or soulish. And then it the third dimension of that seemed to be it becomes demonic. Other words, it seems to start out normal, but where it ends up, it's not normal. It's charged with something that is not visible and not seen. But then when people get charged with that in the energy of that, they think this has got to be God, which goes back to what you said earlier about the Antichrist spirit. Paul, John said, Beloved, believe not every spirit, because every spirit is not of God. And a lot of people think because it's a spirit, it's of God. But he said, you know, recognize the only thing that's really of God is those that believe that Jesus Christ came in the flesh and was a son of God.

SPEAKER_01 23:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:37

And the moment you reject Jesus Christ coming in the flesh and being a son of God going through what he went through, you just rejected the good news that brings the grace and truth. And you're accepting a substitute that is actually going to lead you to destruction. Yeah. And you know, the whole nature of that is the destroyer.

SPEAKER_02 23:56

You know, I think a lot of it is manifested in our culture through so much of the division that we have. You know, everybody says, oh, we're so divided, we're so divided, it's just politically divided and ideologically polite and divided, and and we're just culturally divided. And a lot of that's true, but the the underlying thing on that is that that the problem is that you have the values of the kingdom of darkness, which is kill, steal, destroy, and you have the values of the kingdom of God, righteousness, peace, and joy. The people who believe in Jesus are trying to live in the kingdom of God, God's government, God's control, God's sovereignty. But if you're not living in that kingdom, you're automatically in the other one. Now, maybe you say, Well, I didn't choose that. I don't worship the devil. I don't believe in Satan. I don't believe in any of that. I don't think any of that's true. Too bad. If you're not over here in the kingdom of God, you're over here. And and ultimately, when the bad guy, whoever it may be over on this side, gets in control of whatever a group, a community, a nation, a people, the values that will manifest are kill, steal, destroy. And that because that's what that's that's the values of the kingdom of God. Yeah. And so so that that's where it goes. Over here, we don't kill. We don't steal, we don't destroy. Well, at least now some people do stuff over here and in in in all of that goes on doesn't mean the kingdom, you know, the people that are over here are perfect. But but they're there, that's not their values. If somebody does that, they go, well, you're not supposed to lie, you're not supposed to steal, you're not supposed to kill, you know, and and uh that's where it is. And and whatever the label is on it, you know, politically, is is irrelevant. That's where the struggle is, and that's that's our struggle. And God help us. God help us, because we ain't we can't vote ourselves out of that. It this is God help us to to to recognize what's going on and to see the the the need for that.

SPEAKER_03 26:15

I and I think I I think that right there is a hook already. That uh because people have become so ch so charged and so tied to a political affiliation.

SPEAKER_01 26:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:33

But the problem is that with most politics, it's not government that's governed by God.

SPEAKER_01 26:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:43

And you know, government that comes from God is going to be life-giving, it's going to be the thing that will oftentimes create the arena of peace.

SPEAKER_01 26:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:58

Um, it's often the thing that is going to promote righteousness. It's a thing that is going to oftentimes yield um a peaceable fruit in people's lives that um is not driven and forced. Yeah. And um right now, too much stuff is driven and forced. Yeah. It's it's got rage and anger behind it, and it's got wrath behind it. And that are clear signs of uh those are clear signs to me of a society and a culture that's in a decline and a deterioration.

SPEAKER_01 27:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:38

And the only thing I see that, which is what Paul was crediting the Thessalonic spot for, is their faith. But everybody wants to believe that everybody has faith. Paul clearly said in 2 Thessalonians 3, beloved, all men have not faith, but some are wicked. Other words, he he just he had to spell it out for them. It's kind of like Lazarus with the disciples, and the whole thing, they thought, well, why are we going over there if he's sleeping? And finally, Jesus had to look at him and say, guys, he's dead. He did. You know what I'm saying? Well, you know, where we're at is things are either unrighteous or righteous.

SPEAKER_01 28:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 28:25

You know, things are either born again or they're not born again. Things are either un you know, raft or grace. What what do you want? And and you gotta move from here to there, and you might not be completely mature once you make the move, but the transformation is a journey and it's a continuation in a person's life day by day. And Christianity is not never intended to be from service to service.

SPEAKER_01 28:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 28:55

And you know that better than me. You've lived that, you've we've talked about this for years. Yeah, it was meant to be a part of my daily life and the influence of my daily life. Yes, and it's supposed to be a relationship and fellowship and communion, not only with God, but with other people.

SPEAKER_01 29:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:14

And we we've, you know, we've we've got great marketing, we've got great branding, we've got all this great stuff, which, you know, can be wonderful, but most of that is borrowed from the world.

unknown 29:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:30

Where is the presence of God and the power of God in the middle of this? That changes the good old boy, yeah, that changes the failed man or the failed woman that has fallen so far, they don't believe there's help to even get up, much less look up any longer.

SPEAKER_01 29:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:48

And that's the gospel that changed Carnival. That's the gospel that changed Galatians, that's the gospel that changed the Thessalonicans. That was the gospel that changed Kalosha. And and you know, and and that's the gospel that changed my life. That's the gospel that changed your life. Yeah, that makes it present tense and it makes it real. But you know, the the deception, going back to saying, uh, you know, you and I've talked about this just for the last year, the level of deception and what Romans said, I really see it. It's like people have become foolish.

SPEAKER_01 30:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 30:28

You know, the the Romans one, yeah, they have turned from the creator to the creation to be their uh their leadership, so to speak. And I I would say to anybody, whether it's from the king uh or the president or the prime minister, whoever it may be, all the way to the to the bottom, yeah, and everything in between. You better, you better, you better know the Lord.

SPEAKER_02 30:56

Yeah, it it's you know, we it there's the saying that you know, you you can cure ignorance with knowledge. You just tell people giving people information, you can fix ignorance. Only God can heal stupidity because because it's just a different thing. It's the foolishness that you're talking about. It's like people have just slipped over from just not knowing to not caring and being, you know, the the verse you're talking about that Paul said he was talking about deliver us from wicked and unreasonable men. Yeah, you know, and people who are foolish are just unreasonable. You it you can tell them the you're not curing ignorance.

SPEAKER_03 31:35

Don't debate it either.

SPEAKER_02 31:36

Yeah, with normal people, you can give them the facts and they'll go, oh, okay. And and they'll, you know, they'll make a decision based on that. But this deception that we're dealing with, you give them the facts and they go, I don't care, I don't believe that. Okay, you know?

SPEAKER_03 31:51

Well, you know, I I think I think Artie, uh I I think I'd like for us to revisit this as maybe a continuation, not today, but uh just kind of land for today. But um, because I just feel like there's a whole lot here and a number of different angles that need to be worked in this whole thing so people can understand where we are and for the fact that we don't have to stay messed up. We don't have to stay right, you know. I you said that about stupid. Somebody gave me a coffee cup a long time ago and said, even the big dog can't fix stupid. And I used to love that coffee cup. I enjoyed my coffee, but uh I'd oftentimes look at that and remind myself, even the big dog can't fix stupid. Well, the you know, the Lord, the Lord can fix stupid. Yes, and the Lord can deliver fools and um deliver the very most messed up people, yeah, but people are not hearing that, they're hearing something else, and it's motivated and driven by a different spirit, and it's a different nature, and it's in the hour and age that we're in.

SPEAKER_01 33:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:09

And I don't think people need to be naive to that and ignorant to that. And um, you know, and that was one of the things Paul used several times in his language. He said, We are not ignorant to this. Yeah, you know, we're not ignorant to it. So would you uh maybe just wrap this up with at last thought and prayer forces?

SPEAKER_02 33:26

Well, I it it, you know, as as as Paul often prayed that that that God would would illuminate the hearts when when the when the evil of this world has blinded the eyes, you know, the God of this world, as he would say, has blinded the eyes, this world system, then the light of the gospel of God can shine into the hearts of those people. That's one of the things he says in Romans. And it's that shining in of God's light in the hearts of people. We need to be faithful just to preach the gospel. Yeah, we need to make disciples, but we if we and the gospel is not complicated, it's not complex, it's not difficult, and it's gonna sound to those who are perishing, it sounds like foolishness, but it's the gospel that saves lives. And that that's we need to be busy about that as a church.

SPEAKER_03 34:15

Well, it seems to be uh it seems to be uh right now in the season we're in. I know personally I just sense in my own heart and my own life, Lord, help me to get back to the simplicity of the gospel. You know, uh we don't have to do all these games to entertain people. Entertainment's not fixing people because there's more entertainment right now than there's ever been in the history of humanity.

SPEAKER_02 34:43

You can find it 24 hours ago.

SPEAKER_03 34:45

Absolutely, but it's not changing people's lives. Matter of fact, it seems to be detracting or distracting people's lives from what really the dangers are of life. And yeah, you know, may the Lord come and and make a difference in people in this day and age. Amen. May Lambs and Company be a voice to contribute the good news to your heart, your home, and your life. Amen. Amen. You want to pray?

SPEAKER_02 35:11

I can pray. I can do that. You can do that. I know you can. Oh Lord, help us, Father, as a people and as a nation, open the eyes of those who've been blinded, open their hearts, open their minds. Father, help us to have discernment, true spiritual discernment, to understand good from bad and evil from goodness. Help us, Father, to understand your ways. And Lord, deliver us from evil. Oh, Father, let your kingdom come on earth and deliver us from evil and do your will here. And we pray in Jesus' name. Amen.

SPEAKER_03 35:52

Amen. Thank you for taking time to join Lambs and Company. And your life is worth living, and your life in Christ is worth sharing. God bless. Thank you.