SPEAKER_00 0:04

Welcome to Lambs and Company, a podcast about life. We will feature guests and friends on the podcast to have quality conversations and wonderful fellowship. We hope you will join us. It's a life worth living, and it's a life worth giving.

SPEAKER_01 0:25

Welcome to another Lambs and Company. A life worth giving is a life, a life worth living is really a life worth giving. And we uh we've got Artie Hall with us again today and uh enjoy that. And we've got uh Sammy Fryer today, and we're we're gonna kind of talk about some interesting verses in the scriptures and um really try to deep dive into some of this because sometimes there are verses in the Bible that people just want to stay away from, to be honest. They don't want to touch them because they know they don't understand it, or either it's gonna be a point of controversy or problematic. And so um we we do want to welcome you to this. We're probably gonna have to take a couple of episodes to to work through this, but um uh again, uh hi guys. Hello, hi yeah, make sure make sure your sound is really good on that side over there because uh y'all are gonna be straightening the whole world out on some stuff today. So I want to make sure that uh they can they can understand clearly what's what's going on. But um anyway, we we uh uh hope that this helps helps you, at least provokes you to love and good works. It provokes you to get your Bible out or get your pad iPad out or get your iPhone out or something, and look these verses up at some point, because um, you know, Paul told Timothy, he said, we ought to always study to show ourselves approved. That we need to be people that are not ashamed, but we're able to rightly divide and rightly handle the word of truth. And um one of the one of the things that I think that is happening uh in light of verses, because you've got to remember the the scripture's been around for a long, long, long time. And the Bible still is the number one bestseller every year as far as on the market, as far as books go. And um the difference is I personally think about the Bible is it's inspired of God. And I think that's what Paul told Timothy. He said, all scripture is inspired of God, it's breathe, it's got breath, it's got life in it. And so um having said that, you know, and and uh one of the things I was thinking about is these guys are gonna straighten the world out. It's something that Daniel had to say. Uh in Daniel uh chapter 12. Um let me just read this as we're moving into it and um covering some things, but in Daniel chapter 12, um there's there's a place where Daniel was speaking here, and in the 12th chapter, and he says, But you, Daniel, shut up the words and seal the book until the time of the end. Many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase. And I knew that we were going to be doing these two episodes, and one of the things that um I was thinking about about what Daniel had to say is I realized God is not progressive, God is not evolving. What we have to understand is there are times clearly that the Lord gave things and intended and knew there would be a time that it would be revealed or it would be opened up or uncovered. And I feel like that this is part of what's happening, and you can't approach God just from an academic standpoint is if you're going to study God, because you'll never understand him. You'll never get his heart, you'll never understand his character, you'll never really learn his ways that away. What you have to do is realize that um that there are things that have to be revealed. And I think the revelatory nature of God is given by the Spirit of God to the heart of a man or a woman who has a desire to grow and to know. And so that's part of uh one of the reasons of going into some of these particular areas, is we believe that that we're in an hour of time that God doesn't want confusion because he tells us clearly in his word in 1 Corinthians that God's not the author of confusion. God doesn't want his people in confusion. I think God wants his people, as it says in 1 Thessalonians 5, he wants us to understand the times and the seasons that we're in. And I believe we're in a time and a season where the Lord is trying to open up his word to the heart of his people so we can understand, avoid the pitfall, so to speak, avoid the chaos, confusion, and the dysfunction and disorder. And we can trust the Lord and we can understand and know things. So I just wanted to throw that in there this morning with the team as we're we're gonna be talking through some of these things. Um, I think the text that we're gonna begin with today is in Deuteronomy chapter 32 and verse 8. And um the reason for this is we were having a conversation, and Sammy said, Listen, I want to talk about this stuff, and and I'll take the blame for it if I need to. Well, there's no blame, so to speak, in this. Uh but it it's just like I love his heart and his mind and his and his life, the way he just wants to know and understand things from God's perspective. And he's not afraid to ask questions. He's not afraid to look for answers. And most of all, he's not afraid to make adjustments and changes. And I think we need to all learn how to be that flexible, but at the same time, we understand the basis of our growth, our transformation, and our change doesn't come because of what the culture is saying. It comes because of what God has already stated and said and what we're understanding and how that's opening up to us and being revealed to us. And so I want to just turn it over to Artie and to Sammy and let them kind of run with this at this point, and uh and I'll sit back and and listen and just enjoy. So, guys, have at it.

SPEAKER_03 7:45

I'll um I'll just say something to open it up because I think this is an important statement. Because some of this might be new to some people and maybe confusing. And the question, which I think is a legitimate question, is why does any of this matter? And after some time, I've come to the conclusion, and this is where I'm at today, is this actually does matter. And it's relevant now for a couple of reasons, which hopefully we'll be able to talk about. But it's, I believe, going to become even more relevant in the days to come, and we're already watching it happen in real time. So um at the end of the day, I think it's always a good practice to know our Bible. Study to show yourself approved. You quoted it. So um yeah, could be confusing or new to some people, but if you just bear with us, I think it will make sense on the back end.

SPEAKER_02 8:33

Maybe we could start with the text. That'd be good. This would be um this is in the Song of Moses, this text. Uh, so is poetry. This is po this is Moses composing a song. It's sort of like a poem. We would think more in terms of a poem. Uh and and he's extolling the Lord, glorifying God, and talking. And and when they do that in the Old Testament, there frequently will be a prophetic nature, a prophetic part of that. And and they also just reveal things about God uh that that uh that are sort of you'll read the verse and go, what does that mean? And because it's poetry. And and uh you know, you're not as often just with with a narrative section where it's history, it's very direct, you just read, oh, okay. But when you're reading poetry, like reading Psalms, you just read through there and and somebody's they're expressing their feeling. The the writer's inviting you into their world to to sort of feel what they feel, see what they see. So uh verse eight in in this psalm, it says this. When when and and this is the Hebrew text, and this is a good English translation of that, this is the King New King James Version, when the Most High, and it's the the word used is Elion, which means highest, in in Hebrew, when when the Most High divided their inheritance to the nations, and uh this is Goyim, so it's the nations, those outside of Israel, when he separated the sons of Adam, which is sort of a way, Bene Adam, sons of Adam, a way of expressing human beings. He set the boundaries of the peoples, uh same same word here, uh he he said in the text just says he set the boundaries of the peoples, I mean uh according to the number of the in the Hebrew text says of the children of Israel, Bene Israel. But it becomes problematic because in in the Hebrew text there there is a note, uh a textual note that's explaining because when you read that verse, he he he divided their inheritance and nations, he separated the sons of men, he set the boundaries of the people. Okay, according to the number of the children of Israel. And that's when you say, What? Because because that really doesn't make much sense. And we're not the first people to go, what? Evidently, all through the the history of the text. And and when you look at the note about that, the Septuagint, the Smaritant Pentateuch, I think even there's some Qumram text, uh, Syriac version, a couple of other things, reads the word El, Bene Elim. El is the Semitic word for God, and and uh it can be El Elim, Elohim is is that uh Elohim is the plural of Eloh. And but it's all the same root, it's all the same thing. And uh in that case, what happens with the Septuagint version, and here's uh uh an older English translation of that, uh Brenton, when the Most High divided the nations, when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the nations according to the number of the angels of God. So the Septuagint writers translated it that way. In fact, when you look at the Greek text itself, it uses the word Angelon, which is a word for angel. So the Septuagint translator, and this could go back very early, either saw a Hebrew text that said Bene Elim, and he may well have, uh, or they were just seeking in their translation to sort of explain, explain what that was about the sons of Israel. Because then, as I think Sammy can probably point out, uh then it then the text makes sense in the in that the in light of what else you see in the Old Testament, you see angels, the prince of Persia, the prince in in Daniel, you see that there seems to be some sort of connection in all of that with the nations.

SPEAKER_03 12:56

Yeah. So if my understanding of this is correct, we found the Dead Sea Scrolls, and the Dead Sea Scrolls rendered this second option reading, the sons of God. So yeah, to put it in plain English, we have two options. God divided up mankind, that's referring back to Genesis 11. So you have the Tower of Babel incidents, which everybody's familiar with, and at that time, God comes down and confuses the language because he says if they they get this done, they'll be able to do anything. So I'm gonna confuse the language and spread them all over the place. And that's exactly what he did. And if you go back to Genesis 10, you have the table of nations and you see where all these different peop were originally from or dispersed. So option number one is God did that according to the sons of Israel, which to your point doesn't really give a lot of answers. You have to figure out what that means. The other option is that he dispersed them according to the sons of God. And you still say, Well, what does that mean? The difference is, I think, that you find out there are multiple, and it just kind of it's the thing, it kind of just keeps on unraveling the more you get into it. There are multiple instances in the Bible, including most importantly the gospel itself, that provide answer to why that rendering makes more sense. Yeah. Um well, I'll I'll leave that there. So what did you no?

SPEAKER_02 14:17

I I think that I think that I think you're in the right direction with that. It if you look at history, the thing you see, and frequently the Old Testament writers would explain it this way, they would say, foreign gods, your gods, the God of your nation, and then our God. Our God is the only God that's really God. All of those other gods out there are not the same. And and less than the whole point. There, because they're not it. This is not polytheism. This is not what we're talking about here. We're talking about a spiritual world that we're getting a glimpse of. You see it in the Old Testament, you just see verse here, verse there, verse in another place where they explain all of this stuff going on in the spiritual world that evidently relates in some way. And why would it not be some supernatural event behind the worship of whatever particular god this group claimed? Right. I mean, I it it now, maybe that particular angel doesn't do it all the time, but you know, once something happens, they it just becomes tradition, you know, and all that's going on with that. So go ahead.

SPEAKER_03 15:32

I was gonna say, could I just unpack some of this? And you can just straighten me out if I get out of line. All right. So the story goes, as we just said, so you God disperses the nations at Genesis 11 that we're gonna build the Tower of Babel. But it says also in the verse in Deuteronomy 32:8 that he keeps Israel as his possession. How many times in the Old Testament do we read that type of language? So we do understand that this provides answer to that at point one. Yeah, also, that's the same scenario we have today. This group of people had decided to defy Yahweh, the living God. They said, We don't, we, we want to usurp you and be our own gods. It's really the same thing that happened in the garden under the influence of Satan. So it's the same story. And so God says, All right, I'll give you what you want. I'm gonna put you away from me, I'm gonna divorce you, and you're gonna be as if you read it this way in this reading, you're you're now under the influence, though, of of others. There's a there's an allotment out there, and I'm gonna disperse you that way, and I'm gonna keep this group of people who he calls supernaturally through Abraham as my own to demonstrate my goodness throughout time. And eventually Jesus would come out of that line to reclaim the nations. Exactly. Which I would suggest is what you see at Pentecost. That's why you had all these people speaking different languages. But that's that's kind of deeper down the rabbit hole because there's actually a tie to that in Genesis 10 and some of the things Paul said about, well, I, you know, I've got to go here, I've got to go there, I've got to get to Rome. Yeah. There's a checklist that he had. And I would suggest that's probably where this comes from to reclaim the nations was the purpose of the gospel. But there are other verses that are significant that reading this this way, using this version of the text, which it's my understanding, is the version of the text that your New Testament writers uh adhere to because, and we talked about this before, but they quote the Septuagint frequently. Yeah. And that's where you find this reading. So a couple of really interesting verses to me in the Bible that if I have this reading, I now understand what they're saying, but without it, I still kind of don't. There's a handful of them. First one's Psalm 82. And in Psalm 82, it says right at the beginning that if you want to pull that up and read it from what you have, uh, this is another weird verse. And the interesting thing is Jesus refers to Psalm 82, excuse me, in a passage, I think in John 10, that gets quoted all the time. And I, in my opinion, it gets misrepresentative what Jesus was saying. And it ties back to the reading of Psalm 82, which would really tie back to Deuteronomy 32 to understand it. But it says in in Psalm 82 that God stands in the assembly of the gods, right?

SPEAKER_02 18:20

Yeah. Congregation of the mighty, as it says in the New King James boy, and then he judges among the gods. What's the Hebrew of God standing in the congregation of uh the uh Eda is a Hebrew word for like congregation or assembly. So it's uh Adat El. It's the assembly of the assembly of God, meaning this may be God's assembly, in the midst of the Elohim, and this is like the gods. He judges among the gods.

SPEAKER_01 18:55

So this so you read that verse and go, whoa, whoa, whoa, what's happening there?

SPEAKER_03 19:00

So the the red flags start going up, but there don't have to be. And this is one part of the problem is the word Elohim, and I don't want to get too far off on the various tracks on this, it can get confusing, but the word Elohim does not just mean God. And we talked about this. So we have this one word for God, and it's God, but that's very generic. What I've realized helps with this, and it's really something you say. There's two different ways you could look at it. One's Yahweh. There's only one Yahweh, there's only one creator, one distinct being that's omnipotent, omniscient, almighty, all-powerful, all of that stuff. There's only one. Uh, but the thing that you say, and I've heard you say this, is there are many gods, but there's only one father of ourselves and our Lord Jesus Christ. So when you understand that, and this Hebrew word Elohim is a generic term, yeah, now your red flags are down. And I think what verifies what's going on in Psalm 82, which really clarifies what Jesus was saying in John 10, is if you go down to verse 6, he he refers to this assembly that he's speaking to, and he says, Um, I'm reading out of the NET, but he says, you know, I I said you are gods, all of you are sons of the most high. There's only one most high. He's addressing this congregation, though, and he calls them gods. Well, Jesus says that in John 10 to the Pharisees.

SPEAKER_01 20:20

One of the one of the things too, at the Psalm 82, um that you can look at here is all societies really depend on right. You know, we tell right and wrong, but really, it's really right. You know, the wrong is not what you want to go after. The right is what you want to go after. But the thing is, you know, there's a there's a passionate or compassionate justice, I think, is the cornerstone of the universe to determine many times the destiny of us as people as far as humanity. And God personally maintains a moral order and he himself measures this and gives delegated authorities. And so I think in Psalm 82, I think when you see what you were saying, when you see that it's not only God, but then God works through people to actually bring about that oftentimes that that right or that justice or that order, which goes back to what you were saying in John chapter 10, when they were gonna pick up stones and kill Jesus. I thought, man, they they really they just had a hard time with Jesus, uh, as far as the leaders of that day. But they were actually gonna go after Jesus in that situation. It is verse 31 through 38. And it says again, the Jews picked up the stones because they were going to stone him. Verse 32. But Jesus said to them, I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. And he says, For which of these do you stone? Me. So he's asking the spirit, okay, so which what are you gonna stone me for? For doing this. And so then in verse 33, he says, We're not stoning you for any of these, they replied as the Jews, but for the blasphemy, because you are a mere man and claim to be God. So then Jesus turns that thing at that moment and he says in verse 34, Jesus answered them, Is not is it not written in your law? I have said you were gods. Now it's little G, but you're you're gods. And so if he called them gods, to whom the word of God came and the scripture cannot be broken, so what about the one whom the Father set apart as the very as his very own and sent into the world? So then he's making reference to them about himself. And so and then he says, Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said I am God's son. So here in there you see, I am but God's son. And he says in verse 37, do not believe me unless I do what the father does. Verse 38, but if I do it, even though you do not believe me, believe the miracles that you may know and understand that the Father is in me and I am in the Father. And so I think you see two things going on there. Jesus is referencing to God as the Elohim, but then he's also referencing the fact that there's a delegated authority that the Father gives in the earth to continue the justice of what's right out of compassion. And many times things are, you know, that that's not really what's going on in society today. Most people are reaching for authority for power and for possession. They're not reaching for for the purpose of justice. And God's looking at it from a standpoint of justice. If you remember in Genesis chapter 18, when he heard about what was going on in Sodom and Gomorrah, he actually sends, he he hears this report. So he says, you know what? I'll go to, I'll, I'll go, I'll send, I'll basically find out is the report that's coming here actually what's going on there? And he uses the and he actually says it was for the purpose because God's a just God. And you know, I know today in our culture of society, people don't even want to think about the fact that God can be just as well as there can be judgment. Lord, don't put the word judgment in there. You know, people will go nuts on you. But going back to what we're talking about, I I think this is why this is really important because there is a delegated authority. Matter of fact, um in Psalms um uh I think it's what is it, Psalm 115, I believe, where it says, the earth is the Lord's and the heavens, but he's given it unto man to rule the earth. In other words, he's delegated it to us to have oversight and take responsibility for it. But he's expecting us to do it out of his nature as his sons and his daughters. He he's desiring for that to be done, not just the way we think it should be done. Lord, you go to Washington, D.C., and there's too much stuff up there going on. You know, you're talking about aliens. We were talking about aliens a few podcasts ago. You go to Washington, D.C. I know why people are asking questions about aliens, because they're so alienated from what's really going on, because people get there and they forget really why they're there or who sent them there, and they get caught up in all of this stuff. And, you know, that goes over to what uh one of the verses we were going to talk about in Ephesians 6 about we wrestle not against uh you know flesh and blood, but against principalities, powers, rulers of darkness, spiritual wickedness, and high places. I've I'm a firm believer because Paul, when he used that word principality, he uses that same word over in Peter, and he specifically makes mention of the fact that the principality is making spiritual in Ephesians 6. Peter uses the principality as natural governors or leaders in the natural. And so I think this goes back to the whole thing of the Daniel 10 thing, you know, of where, you know, where you have people that are, you know, uh, you know, they're they don't understand what is that whole thing in Daniel 10 about? You know, and so I I know I jumped jumped into this thing, but guys, um I don't have a problem with God being God and being a father. And I don't have a problem with the fact that I I really believe the Bible that there really are angels, there really are spiritual entities that are they're spiritual that are trying to influence in the natural. But if God, according to Psalm 82, is interested in justice, a lot of what these spiritual influencers are trying to do is not to lead people into what is just and right. They're looking at trying to push people into what is unjust and unrighteous.

SPEAKER_03 27:50

That's the whole point of all of this. So if this was just, I want to study the Bible and know a bunch of little cool things, then it would be pointless. You better off just go and play basketball or something. Just do something else, go get some exercise. But if this actually matters, yeah, that completely radically changes this conversation. And that's the point. That's what I think the point is. Yeah, you're not just out here making decisions. We were given dominion and authority over the earth, yeah, but there were beings that were created before us. Job says the sons of God watched the foundations of the earth laid and they rejoiced. Yeah, we're not the first ones. Um, even the even in Hebrews, there's so much language that in Hebrews you were made a little lower than the angels. There's this reality that God has created a plethora of beings and we're part of it. Now, I think we're the most special in his eye. Yeah, we're his prize possession. I think that's where a lot of the conflict and animosity comes from, honestly. I agree. But understanding this gives explanation to a lot of what you see in the world. Yeah. Remember at Judge Kavanaugh's institution, a lot of the stuff that was going on with Molech and all of that type of stuff, a lot of this stuff with abortion we talk about, like sometimes you wonder what's really going on here. And at the ground level, with the average citizen, it's just, oops, I got pregnant and I'm scared. All right. But what's is that all there is to it? Why is there such a push? Why is there such a thrust? Yeah. And that's just one particular issue. I mean, you could unpack probably thousands of them. And the question I suggest to ask is, well, is there more to the cause of that than just human evil? Even in the garden, Eve didn't just decide to rebel against God, she was influenced by a spiritual being that we call Satan. My question is, has this not been going on the whole time and still going on to this day? And it has to be biblically that I've got I've got no reason to believe otherwise because Paul literally says it. He when we focus on that and say, hey, don't be fighting with each other because there's something else that's at work. Well, there's your answer. It's right there. And he literally says, in heavenly places, he makes it geographic. Yeah. So to me, this this gives me everything that I need. I don't have to. And then I then I start to think about all these other verses that are it's again, I get explanations. Why it says, I think it's in Galatians, that the law itself was given, um, it was dispensed by angels as an intermediary in Galatians. I forgot exactly how it's worded. Yeah, Paul says in uh 1 Corinthians 6, another weird verse that doesn't get talked about. But if you understand this, you have explanation now. He says, like you're supposed to know this. And and to me, that tells me his audience probably did. Somewhere we've lost this. And the church fathers probably are to blame for some of that. God bless them. But he says, Don't you know that you will judge angels? Well, no, Paul, I didn't know that. But you did ask me as if I'm supposed to know that. Uh-huh. What does that mean? Yeah. Yeah. One more, just one more, real quick. Jude says that the the, and y'all were talking about this when I came in, but the angels that left their first estate. Yeah. So there's all of this language, there's there's a third party in this whole mix. And somewhere along the line, they've uh apparently been given some kind of ability. We don't understand why God, I don't, there's a lot of stuff I understand why God did it, but somewhere along the way, they've been given the capacity or ability to interact with and influence the happenings in the earth. And they have not used it for good purposes, to your point.

SPEAKER_01 31:18

I think and I think, Sammy, the thing that I've kind of gleaned over the past 50 plus years is um, and I didn't understand this in the beginning, but I I understand it better now, i is you know, from the word of God and in in John chapter uh eight, you know, Jesus tells us that um Satan is the father of lies. And so, you know, deception oftentimes operates under the the the covering many times of uh taking something that sounds truthful and just putting a bend to it, putting a twist to it, and you know, passing that also people to buy into it. But I think that's their counterfeit also to God who is truth, gives us the word of truth. Jesus comes as the person of truth. He gives us and and gives us the promise and the commission of the spirit of truth. So obviously truth was such an important part of what i you know the nature of God is, the one true God, the the Deuteronomy 6 God that Moses makes reference to. And so I I think that when you see this and realize the only thing the adversary has to work with is twisting things and turning things, provoking things, dividing things, separating things. Because Jesus said no, no house divided can stand. So I've I've at this point in my life, I've I've looked and I've watched, and one of the quickest ways to recognize this is important if this much division is being sown this quickly on the front end. And I just kind of watch that. And it's like you mentioned the Kavanaugh thing. Well, you know, think about the industry.

unknown 33:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:17

That's what it is. It isn't just about who they could care less about the human life, obviously.

SPEAKER_03 33:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:22

So it's about the meta, it was about the medical industry, it's about Planned Parenthood, and about it people don't realize how much money's tied into this.

SPEAKER_03 33:33

But that has Satan's fingerprints on it too. His playbook's been laid out for us. How did he tempt Jesus?

unknown 33:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:38

One of the ways was with material wealth. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:41

Well, you know what? Um let's we're let's stop here and pick back up on the next thing because that would be a good launching point for a second segment in this in this uh particular area. Um, Sammy, would you uh close us in prayer?

SPEAKER_03 34:01

Well, Lord, I thank you for your word. It is rich and full of all kinds of good things that are valuable and resourceful for us to navigate life. And so I just ask that you just bless our conversation today and just bless the reading of your word and help us to understand the things we need to rightly glorify you in Jesus' name.

SPEAKER_01 34:19

Amen. A life worth living is a life worth giving. Thanks for your time today. And uh join us for the second segment of this uh of this study that we're looking at, and um hopefully it'll provoke something good inside of you. God bless you.