SPEAKER_00 0:04

Welcome to Lambs and Company, a podcast about life. We will feature guests and friends on the podcast to have quality conversations and wonderful fellowship. We hope you will join us. It's a life worth living, and it's a life worth giving.

SPEAKER_01 0:25

Welcome to another Lambs and Company. Life worth living is a life worth giving. Got Dr. Artie Hall, got um Sam Fryer. He said Sammy. He said Sam, Sam Fryer. And uh we we've just actually had fun um being together. First of all, we love each other and we enjoy company, we enjoy conversations that we don't just have for the podcast, we enjoy conversations we have off camera and off audio because life is interesting. And yet I believe that the word of God. Oh, yeah. That's one way to put it. Yeah, life is interesting, and it does, it does. The word of God has tremendous insight and answers to us. And a good friend of ours for Artie and I was Judson Cornwall. He was on the advisory board for our ministry for years until he went to be with the Lord. Judson used to say, uh, you know, when people say Jesus is the answer, Judson used to say, Well, what's the question? You know, and he and he really meant that, you know, because a lot of times when questions come, then you can search out things, and God does have the answer in his word. And so uh this morning we want to cover an interesting topic for I think culture and for society, and it's on monogamy. And and give me just a minute. I want to stop and pray before we go any further and uh and jump into this. And uh all all three of us have different contributions to make concerning this, and we do are are believing that this will be helpful and beneficial to some. And um it it may upset some people, but that's okay. Uh I've had people upset before. Anyway, Father, thank you for the opportunity to uh dive into another topic, another uh discussion of life that people are living out and a lot of times wonder why it's not working out. Father, your divine order has already been established from the very beginning, and it actually has instructed us your ways that lead to life and lead to blessing and lead to comfort and peace. Father, I just thank you and praise you. May today's episode be helpful and beneficial to those that would hear it or either see it. And Father, may it cause people to stop and think. Lord, may it actually grace people with the ability to make adjustments and changes in areas of life that they may see beneficial and needful at this point that they've never considered before. So please help us today to articulate and communicate things that would actually be helpful and beneficial to each and every person in Jesus' name. Amen. So monogamy is actually from the dictionary, the state or the practice of having only one sexual partner at a time. That's interesting that uh this is the way that Webster uh actually puts this, and the actual word comes all the way back from the French, as far back as 1612, is where they look at it originating and coming from. And so uh what I want to say about that is that's wonderful that Webster has been able to uh give us a definition for what monogamy is, but one of the things that we want to establish today from a biblical standpoint and conversation is it said one sexual partner at a time. Now, the thing about that is people that practice polygamy, they're only practicing sexual activity one at a time, but they have more than one. And so that's an issue, that's a problem. And actually, in Paul's day, when he was writing to the Corinthian church in 1 Corinthians 6, and I'd like to just take a moment and revisit this and read it to you, and then we can really get into the good stuff. Beginning in verse 9 of 1 Corinthians 6, he says, Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do you do not be deceived? Neither fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, homosexuals, sodomites, or thieves, or nor covetous, nor drunkards, or revilers, or extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. Well, that's quite a list he lists out there. And you hear that, and matter of fact, you know, a lot of people will get riled up just for the fact he identifies this. But look what he says in verse 11. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus by the Spirit of God. Well, that's an encouraging word, encouraging thought that God loves us enough that when we realize that um that we we are uh in the condition that we're in, that He actually would actually intervene in our life and actually begin the process of transformation. So listen at verse 12. It says, All things are lawful for me, but all things are not helpful. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any. Verse 13, foods for the stomach, and the stomach is for food, but God will destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for sexual immorality, but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body. Verse 14, God both raised up the Lord and will also raise us up by his power. But do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ? Shall I then take the members of Christ and make them members of a harlot? Certainly not. Or do you not know that he who is joined to the harlot is one body with her? For the two, he says, shall become one flesh. Matter of fact, that quote is actually in Genesis chapter 2, where God originated the creation of Adam, and from Adam he took Eve, and then he said, The two shall become one and become one flesh. So God's original intention was a covenant, not a contract. His initial intention was not just an agreement that we can later adjust and modify along the way, but a covenant relationship is one that we are both in and we both see the need of serving and giving of ourselves. It's not one-sided, it's both individuals. And the thing that makes that work the best, I think, is what Ecclesiastes says that a threefold cord is not easily broken. Other words, the covenant we make is before God, but it's with one another. And that is the thing that gives strength to a relationship. The problem is before I came to Christ, um, you know, I lived according, is what Paul said, uh the lust of my flesh. You know, I lived according to the desires of my own life. And there are two, there are four words in the classical Greek that are used for love. And in American, you know, we talk about love and we love our house, we love our cat, we love our dog, we love our wife, we love our car. And it's like it sounds like that love is all the same thing. But it's in God's thinking, in God's mind, it's not all the same thing. Matter of fact, uh, Artie, maybe you can even point this out to us in a stronger way, or either Sammy, but there the four words are well, uh Phileo, uh Stork, Stork, uh, what's the pronoun? Um Storgis, and then as Eros, and then as agape. Yeah, agapeo.

SPEAKER_04 9:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:38

And and the highest is agapeo, it's God's love.

SPEAKER_04 9:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:42

But the sexual love of Eros that we get erotic from, if that is surrendered and submitted to God's love, then it keeps it from being corrupted, and it keeps it from being polluted, and it keeps it from being greedy and selfish and controlling and manipulating and all those things that come out in our human nature. But you separate it from God, the thing that God created us for, he created sex for both the male and female because he commanded them to be productive and reproductive and be fruitful and to multiply. So he's the one that had the idea for sex, but he didn't have the idea for sex outside of a monogamous relationship. And the monogamous relationship isn't having one person this week and having another person next week or next month. It's something he intended to be, you know, a commitment to, and that's where the covenant with God, and when another comes in, he meant for it to be until death do us part.

SPEAKER_04 10:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:44

You know, and so um, but this arros thing, I've looked at this for over 10 years now, and eros is an interesting thing because the way it works is it's really not about sex, it's really about desire. It's uncontrolled desire. And when people live with an uncontrolled desire that they're always seeking to feed and satisfy, then it manifests itself and it takes on the physical uh manifestation many times of the erotic and it pursues that and desires to feed that. That's where the whole thing of polygamy and all these other things that you find that are happening today begin to occur. And yet, I don't think we were ever created for all that nonsense. Matter of fact, when Paul was speaking in 1 Corinthians 6, he is joined to the harlot as one spirit with the harlot. Just like he just joined to the Lord is one spirit with the Lord. What people don't realize is when they begin to get involved outside of a monogamous relationship, they're involving themselves not just with the person physically, they're involving themselves with that person in every way because the sexual part of human nature and human life that God intended to be covenantal and desired it to be monogamous, turns out that you start giving a part of yourself to someone else. Some people teach this and will tell you that's a soul tie. Why is it a soul tie? Well, it can it connects the person together, but what most people don't realize that also is the one place when two people become one physically, it's the one place, I think, that they also have the ability for the human spirit to meet with the human spirit. And that may sound deep right now, and I don't intend it to be that way, but that's what seems to be happening with people. And then people go on their mere, you know, their merry little way, and they wonder why. Why am I having these thoughts or why am I having these ideas or what's why am I dealing with this? And I never really desired that or dealt with that. They don't realize when they got involved physically with someone that it ended up not only being involved with a physical connection, but it also began to be a tie with somebody soulishly and also with their human spirit. And a lot of times, whatever that person is carrying and been involved with also is something that you're affected by. It's like releasing in this room a fragrance. Everybody in the room is affected by that fragrance. Some in a positive way, some in a negative way. But everybody in the room is aware there's a fragrance that was released. It affects everybody. Well, when this thing goes and happens the way our culture is going today, it's not really good. And the only one that can fix it, according to 1 Corinthians 6, 11, the only one that can fix this is the Lord Jesus Christ in people's lives. He's the one that takes, and such were some of you, and he's able to sanctify you. That means set you apart unto himself, and he's able to justify you. We absolutely need every bit of that if we've been participants and been involved and expressed or experienced the prior things that Paul lists there in verse 9, 10 before he gets to verse 11. And so this is such an important thing today. And Artie and I were talking, and there was an article that he shared with me on monogamy. And it was an interesting uh, it was an interesting article. I read through the article, I called him up, and I said, hey, this would be a great topic for us to talk about. So I'm just throwing these particular things out. One of the other things I would encourage you to do, because Jesus addressed the importance of marriage. You don't want to get married just so you can say you're married. You get married because you want a relationship that is going to be lifelong and it's going to be fruitful and it's going to be productive and it's going to bring increase. But that should be both for the man and for the woman in the relationship. Jesus, Paul says in Ephesians chapter 5, the husbands love your wives as Christ loves the church. Other words, that's a pretty, that's a pretty amazing standard that Jesus gives to Paul to give to the church. Where husbands are supposed to love your wife. How much did Jesus love the church? He gave his life for. I'm talking about sometimes the death is daily to ourself and to our own desire, to our own appetites, or to our own life that we once lived compared to the life that Christ is establishing us in as a new creation and as a new creature. And that's such an important thing. Yet there's tremendous blessing, there's tremendous life, there's tremendous liberty in living that life. And the world the whole time is screaming at people that are seeking to be disciples and followers of Jesus Christ, and it's yelling, saying, You're losing out, you're missing out. I don't think so. That's the world's way. And what they don't understand is that's also something that creates destruction most of the time. Instead of people having real communion and real fellowship and intimacy together, they have a physical connection, but they're missing part of what God's design and purpose was for the marriage in the first place. And so now that I've just kind of laid those things out, I'll let these two guys, I love listening to them because they just talk things through in such a fine way. Guys, get on it.

SPEAKER_03 17:09

Well, you know, in in the words of a wise woman, also known as my wife, uh, she she would sometimes remark, just in that thing of of the the danger of joining yourself to people, she would say, you know, and you know, some of our friends or somebody we'd have, they they made just some bad choices about those things. And she said, you know, when you make yourself one with a fool, you suffer consequences. And I just said, Okay, dear. And and uh I uh you know, so it it it does. I mean, it really affects things. And and uh the the article that that you're talking about that it was a particular denomination that was arguing that the the pastors needed to be monogamous. And now all of a sudden that was controversial in in the the agreement on the in the denomination. That's why I'm just scratching my head going, really? I mean, in this particular group, they already have the homosexual thing, and they all have all that.

SPEAKER_01 18:10

All the stuff that Paul was saying.

SPEAKER_03 18:12

Exactly such shall not inherit. The whole list, they've got it in there. But but the one thing that we've got to be monogamous, and they don't want to do that, or at least there were some that didn't. You know, you just you say, What's wrong with us? We we have we've really lost this thing. And and the the uh uh, you know, obviously in the Old Testament, everybody said, Well, what about all those wives? And what about what about Solomon? He had all those wives, what about Abraham? He had all those wives. I mean that is always the exception. The original plan was Adam and Eve. And that's the thing that Jesus goes back to. He didn't go back to Solomon, he doesn't go back to Abraham, he doesn't go back, he goes back to the original model, Adam and Eve. The two shall be one. Man and woman, the two shall be one. And so that's obviously his reaffirmation of what marriage is. And so that's what we need to look at, and all this other stuff goes on in the Old Testament. You can talk about that. Uh, but it but it's not, and it's never if you read any of those stories, there was never a happy minute in Abraham's house. You know, he had all those women, he had all that stuff going on. Never a happy minute. Just the they were miserable. All of them. They you know, you that is not the way God designed this thing to be. And and uh I I so I think you can see that in the Old Testament, and and you just need to realize that's where we are in this. But what sadly has happened in our culture is that the concept of any sort of uh moral purity, uh the contrast between morality and immorality, the the I it's just I it's just gone. I mean, literally just gone, and for and it's been that way for about the last 30 years. And you know, people just they live together, they don't worry about getting married, they they sometimes have multiple partners, uh, the et cetera, et cetera. And and it it we are paying the price. We are paying the price of a generation of young people, younger people, young adults, middle-aged adults now who have never understood a culture that involves sexual purity. And that is just quaint to them that anybody would even ever do that. And and uh it it it's destroyed us. This whole thing has just destroyed us as a nation, destroyed us as a culture. Probably the weakening thing we have as a nation is just this whole thing of a lack of because once you cross that bridge, there are no ethics, there's nothing really right or wrong. There you just you you just start breaking one of the Ten Commandments. All the rest of them you can break real easy.

SPEAKER_01 20:55

The uh the Family Research Council made the following comments about the effect of even like divorce on the American society. Now, we all in this room have people that we love and care about. Maybe even some have had family members that have gone through divorces. So we're not you know, we're not throwing stones at people to be going through divorce. What we're trying to do is point out the value of a covenant relationship that was by God's design and intention and how that is beneficial. But in 1990, the research in 1990 was 25% of all American households were headed by single parents. Approximately 90% of single parent households had no father involved, and approximately 1.6 million couples chose to live together without biblical marriage vows. Approximately 7 71% of teenage suicides at that time were children of divorced parents. Divorce and illegitimacy are a primary cause of poverty. And all this was from research in 1990.

SPEAKER_03 22:23

You know, I I I was assistant principal at a high school a hundred years ago. And this was in the 80s and so what a hundred years ago. But uh then this was like early 80s, the girls would go to some of my teachers and have to want to be given advice because there was going to be a prom. The prom was going to take place, and the boys would invite the girls to the prom. And some of the girls would say, But going to the teachers, I don't want to go with that boy. The teachers kind of go, Why why would you not? I mean, it's just a prom. But the concept was if you asked the girl to the prom, then you're gonna have sex with her. And the the thing they didn't want to do is I don't want to have sex with that boy. So the teachers are explaining to these girls, well, you really have to do that anyway. But the concept in these kids somehow just and that was in the early eighties. And that thing has just carried through. It's it is a we're in trouble. Uh because it it uh when you break the family down, everything else falls apart. It it it creates fatherless homes, it creates juvenile delinquents, it creates a rise in crime, it it creates lawlessness in the culture. It all of that, you know, and you're going, well, that's just a really big boogeyman you got there with sexual activity. But I'm telling you, it is a gateway to a mess.

SPEAKER_01 23:57

Well, the contemporary society chooses to root itself many times in principles and attitudes that are derived from science instead of the scriptures, from judo-Christian values. And you know, the thing is a lot of this began, and I watched this because I was, you know, I was a part of this at the end of the 60s with this whole sexual, what they call a sexual revolution and everything that was going on. But the slide into the value of chaos, many times has had such an impact and an effect, more so than what people realize. Uh, for instance, um disregard and disrespect for judo-Christian values. Well, people say, well, y'all say that because you're Christian. Yeah. But I wasn't always a Christian. I was one time the guy that was on the other side, I was a such was some of you at 1 Corinthians 6 9. Yeah, you know, or 6.11. It's you know, in many times it's encouraged, many times or required. Uh there are a lot of ladies when they have children, they don't want to go outside of the home to actually, you know, because they want to take care of their children. And yet, in the science side of this approach, it was almost required of people to have two people working outside the home and let somebody else raise your children. That hadn't worked out real well. That hadn't worked out really well. And again, there may be couples that have figured that out. My wife and I did that for years, and we would shift off, but you know what? We were the parents of our children, even though we both were employed outside of the home. And yet, you know, we we we did everything we could to make sure that the home wasn't sacrificed for a career or preferred a profession. And so establishing alternative models for the family is one of the things that's happened. Requiring work mobility removes employees from their homes, families, and many times their relatives today, because a lot of people have been put in situations where because of their job, uh I worked with IBM for a couple of years. And when I worked for IBM, everybody that I was around at that time, a lot of them have been uh uh moved from Indica in New York from the big plant there down to Charlotte. And they'd built this massive place in Charlotte. And all these guys were coming in, and you know, and they were then I was meeting these guys and they were excited because they just got a promotion, but it required them to relocate, and in their relocation, their family came and they said, Man, I got the house, I got the pool, you know, I got the car that I want and everything. And and they were just really pumping this thing up with me. And you know, two years later, you know, I'm a relational person, so I'm asking them, I said, Well, so how's your wife and your family doing? We're going through a divorce. I said, Why? I knew why before I asked the question. I knew they were more married to their job than they were to their family. And I said, So you got the house, you got the pool, you got the car, but you lost your family. I said, That that that's not a good trade-off. And Jesus talked about what is it for a man to gain the whole world and lose his soul? And in that case, your soul really is your wife and your children. Yeah, and yet you're losing that. And I watched that happen, and it was it was sad to see the hollowness and the emptiness it left in some of these guys that were great men. But the thing is, they were gutted because while they were in pursuit of one thing, they lost what was really the most important thing. And and that so often happens. And because Christ is not in it, they don't have a path of reconciliation, they don't have a path of restoration, they don't have a path of forgiveness, they don't have a path of intervention many times in the mercies of God that He wants to give. And it and a lot of times when things get to that point, it's very volatile, it's very emotional, it's very much charged with energy, and it, you know, they don't have anywhere to go with all of that. And, you know, um, you know, and I just look back on that moment, I just think, well, well, well, what was it to get the house, the pool, and the car and lose your family? Yeah, and um, and so I'm not opposed to people working outside the home, both parents working outside the home, but don't sacrifice your home in your effort of your career or your profession. And a lot of these people going back to monogamy, a lot of these people started getting involved in extramarital relationships because of being gone so long, they began to think it was okay to be involved. And one guy actually told me, My wife will understand. I said, Trust me on this one, your wife will not understand. He was from Texas, and we were at in Binghamton, New York for a three-week training thing, and in three weeks' time, he's developed a relationship with the girl that was a teller at the bank window. And so I started asking him questions, and he told me, and I started telling him, I said, Are you crazy? Are you crazy? And he said, No, he said, he said, my wife will understand. I said, Bro, your wife will not understand. I said, Matter of fact, when you go back to Texas, your wife is gonna know something's gone wrong, and she hasn't even witnessed it known, but she'll know because she's married in you, she loves you, she'll know that, and she'll pick up something's wrong. And he said, Well, I'll just fabricate the truth. I said, Fabricate sounds pretty good, but really what you're saying is you're gonna go home and lie to your wife. I said, This thing's going from bad to worse. I said, You better get a hand. I said, I'll tell you what. I said, You might not like me for telling you all this right now. But I said, I'm your friend by doing this. I said, I'm further along in this thing. I'm trying to figure out how during this three-week time to get back to South Carolina to see my wife and to see my son. And I said, here you are. You're using it as a vacation and as a time away from your wife and everything else. I said, not a good idea. I said, not a good idea. I said, I'm gonna be praying for you. You know, this guy wouldn't say he didn't know, but I said, this, this is this is not what you think. I said, don't do it. Don't do it.

SPEAKER_03 31:13

Nobody sat by you at lunch anymore.

SPEAKER_01 31:15

No, he didn't, he did not want to be, he was doing everything he could to avoid me the rest of that conference. And finally, the last day, I went up to him and and I told him, I said, listen, I I don't want to want you to know I love you, and I've been praying for you. And I hope when you get home, everything's gonna be okay. Never, never, never knew, never hurt. But people do stuff like that and they think that it doesn't matter. But I'm telling you, your wife will not understand. If you listen to this, your wife will not understand because a monogamous relationship is especially when they give their heart to you and you give your heart to her, that's the way it needs to be from now and forever. Yeah, you know, don't play with that, don't toil with it, don't mess it up, don't do something stupid. And listen, it used to be guys used to always hit on girls. Girls are hitting on guys now. I said, there's no boundaries, there's no respect anywhere now. Guys hit on guys, girls hit on girls, guys hit on girls, girls hit on guys. I mean, it's messed up. It's messed up. And that's where you better be governed by agape, yeah, not air loss. Because air loss is ungoverned desire, and you allow that to get into the room with that, that's what it's going to produce. You better know before you get into a situation what you're gonna do before you ever arrive. And matter of fact, I've I've uh people laugh at this, but I tell the story of going to a pastor's conference and I drove and it was in Connecticut and I stopped, and a lady hit on me in Howard Johnson's when I stopped for lunch, and she invited me to go spend the weekend with her in a chalet in the mountains, and it was snowing. And and and she she said, you know, I just closed a big deal in the city. Don't you want to go in? I got a place I'm going to spend a week. And and I said, uh, I said, I said, I appreciate you know, I'm from the South, you know, and I'm going, I'm focused on going to a pastor's conference, and I'm supposed to be speaking, and I'm thinking about the Lord, and I'm thinking about all that, and all this happens at lunchtime right beside me at the Howard Johnson's at the little bar area there. She says to me that, and I I looked at her and I said, Well, well, you know, and I didn't know. I I just was honest. I said, Well, uh, I said, Well, well, thank you. But no, thank you, because I'm actually on my way to speak at a pastor's conference, and that wouldn't be a good idea. Well, she immediately spun around and and and turned her back to me. I finished uh gulping my sandwich down in about two gulps. I got up and went to the payphone and called my wife in Florence, South Carolina, because they didn't have cell phones in that day. I called her and I said, Anita, she was at work. I had to call collect. And she answered the phone. She said, What's wrong? And I began to tell her the story. She broke out and started laughing. I said, I said, This ain't funny. You know, from where I was, it wasn't funny. She said, Lonnie, I love you and I trust you. Well, that was good that she loved me, and it's good that she trusted me. But I'm glad that was established before that phone call. Because there are a lot of women and a lot of men that are gonna be in situations they can't do that, and you can't wait till you're in that situation and decide what kind of person you're gonna be. You have to know before you get there who you are and what your identity is. And that's what Paul said, and such were some of you. I know what it was to be one thing, but I know what it is now to be in Christ. And I want to live that life. It's not that I live it perfectly, it's not that I live it flawlessly, but I know what it is to be washed. Washed by what Jesus Christ has done. And these guys here, they the same way. They know and they love their wives. We all three, we all three have awesome wives.

SPEAKER_04 35:33

We do.

SPEAKER_01 35:33

We all three have awesome families. And you know what? None of us are perfect, but we're in it for the long haul. When we said I do, we are, and we continue to, and we're fighting for our families. We fight for you know the relationship and contend for that. You know, you know, Nehemiah said something in Nehemiah chapter four, and he actually, at one point, when they were in conflict, he actually told the people, he said, fight for your property, fight for your sons, fight for your daughters, and fight for your wives. Other words, sometimes there's a battle that's involved in relationships that are really going to go the distance. You can't let little disruptions or interruptions keep you from actually becoming what God intends for your life. And the covenant that God has established with us and for us is something that we want to live by. And that's beyond the emotion of the moment, and it's beyond the arros of the moment. It's beyond just the desire of what I want. And a lot of people say, Well, that's what I need, and God will understand. It might be what you think you need, but once you do that, it's gonna be like the guy I met from Texas. My wife will understand. I know his wife would not understand. If he went home and told his wife, it probably did tremendous damage, if not destruction, to his marriage. And a lot of people do not think about that kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_03 37:10

So, I mean, you just So the young family man. What do you think? Yeah, yeah. The youngest So I got three things.

SPEAKER_06 37:16

Um I'm I'm big on practicality. I think the wisdom of God provides, I've always found it to be practical, which is good news because if it wasn't, that would make it more challenging, at least to me. But it turns out it's very practical. And this subject, I got three things. One was a revelation I had way back in the beginning of my walk. Two, it's something that I've walked through, and the third one's just kind of funny. So, but it's true. Good. And I think when I say it, you you will agree with me. So the first one is I realized one day early on in my walk that uh if everybody practiced monogamy, then you would essentially, obviously, some things can pass through birth, so it's some things it would take a little bit of time, but you could essentially in one generation eliminate STDs from the earth.

SPEAKER_03 38:02

All of them, probably, yeah, for the most part, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 38:06

And you give it a little bit of time, a few generations, and it means it'd be a complete non-issue. No vaccines, no medications, no science, um, you know, experiments needed. I like it. Just monogamy. STDs are gone. Yeah. That was the first thing. The second thing is, and if you've ever been through this, you understand, but raising children in a split home is by far, I've been through a lot of stuff in my lifetime, some tough places. And I would say raising children, we've got five kids, God willing, we'll have more, and uh, my two oldest are from a previous lifetime relationship, and all of that. And um, I can say, and I think I can speak for many people, raising children in a split home is by far one of the hardest things you will ever do for you, for the other person, and for the children. It's it's uh un it is not it's not even explainable how difficult it is, and you don't understand until you get into it. It's like this is a nightmare, and this wasn't supposed to be this way. It becomes very obvious. Even when two people are co-parenting very well, it's still not practical and ideal by any stretch of the imagination. Usually that's not the case. Usually it's not amiable by any means, so it's it's difficult, very difficult. Third thing uh maybe if you've never been married, this you wouldn't be able to see this, but if you have been having one wife is a full-time thing. Could you imagine having two or three or four or five wives? I don't think you that's like the uh the um the cover of the ad that you read, but you don't read the fine print. Like, yeah, it looks good. The purchase of the car looks good until you read all the fine print of what the gas cost and all the maintenance and all these things. It's like, you know, maybe I don't want that Mercedes after all. So I'm just saying that I don't know that the idea of having multiple wives is as great as it's made out to be. And really, when you look at Solomon, just thinking about that, Solomon was the epitome of this. Yeah, and he basically ended up going crazy, probably. It didn't really work out well for him in the long run. Not saying it was their fault, just saying that probably didn't help.

SPEAKER_01 40:20

Yeah, well, yeah. I think I think it put a real real pull on his wisdom. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He did. Hey, so I I like all three of that. That's it. That's what I I like, Sammy, about you. You you really break it down and put it very well. That's very practical. Yeah. And uh, but you know, one of the things too about this whole the effects of the contemporary values and lifestyles, listen to it, it reduces the size of families.

SPEAKER_04 40:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:48

Because a lot of times, when there's conception that happens in relationships that don't intend to be monogamous and are not desiring to build a family and grow a family, then a lot of times that's where even abortion comes in.

SPEAKER_04 41:03

Right.

SPEAKER_01 41:03

Because of the inconvenience. So people want to uh you know, and and that's that's something that is not a good idea. I've known people, uh again, this is not targeting people that may be listening and have gone through abortion, because I realize the pain of that and the awareness of that, the consciousness of that many times comes to people down the road. And so God bring comfort and and and mercy to people that have walked through these things. But I've seen people that have gone through an abortion, and then when they got married, they wanted to have children and they were never able to have children. So it's it's incredible. I don't know what, you know, I don't, you know, you you don't know fully what's going on there. But they replace family functions with institutions. That's another thing. God never intended for the institutions to replace the family. And we're we're real big in our culture today about, you know, pushing for the institution, institution, institution, you know, bigger governments and all this sort of stuff. But the problem is if those governments are not doing what the word of God said, it still failed and it's gonna fail. And that's happening all around people. Many times people want to use school systems to totally replace parental involvement in children's education. That's not a good idea. Parents need to be involved in their children and replace the family relationship with peer relationships and institutional environments such as school and work, oftentimes are the trade-off of what's going on. And you know, monogamous relationships grow something. I remember Judson saying, he said, you know, young love is active. And and he said, many times very passionate. He said, but old love brings a lot of stability, brings a lot of strength, and is very calm and peaceful many times.

SPEAKER_03 43:08

It's comfortable.

SPEAKER_01 43:08

It's comfortable. And and um, you know, Artie, you were in mine and Anita's wedding, I think. And uh we've been married 48 years now. Uh Sammy, I had the privilege of officiating your and Maria's wedding. And uh, you know, I've known Susan and Artie for 50 years now, and all of this comes though out of the relationships and friendships that really are tied many ways to monogamous relationships.

SPEAKER_03 43:48

We've been married 51 years.

SPEAKER_01 43:50

And so y'all were married one year before I got the opportunity to really meet you, but uh I knew Susan's mother before I met Susan.

SPEAKER_04 43:57

In in the area of Florence.

SPEAKER_01 43:59

Yeah. Of her writing in a newspaper and everything, and she asks for a testimonial or something. And um but anyway, my point is a lot of people think almost like relationships are kind of their idea when they use the word relationships, not really a relationship, it's really a hookup. It's you know, it's a connection. And that's not really healthy, it's not healthy physically. That's where a lot of times the STDs come in. It's not healthy emotionally because people are torn up by that. And yet I thought about something, people don't understand even that for women and men, it goes all the way back to Genesis 3. Because remember when God telling the what each person was going to end up falling under, the you know, man because of the sweaty your brow and everything, the serpent on the you know, will crawl.

SPEAKER_03 44:55

But remember what it was for the woman and and and and birth, pain and childbirth, but also her desire.

SPEAKER_01 45:03

Yep, her desire will be for a husband, will be for a husband, and a lot of women are living desiring for a husband, but trying to get to the husband part, they're giving themselves to a man. Yeah, and men many times are willing to accommodate for that, and they don't realize what's going on and why they're so driven, but that's not what you want because that's eros governed and not agape governed.

SPEAKER_03 45:29

I mean, I mean, two of the most powerful motivations in human beings is that for sexual reproduction and self-preservation. Those are the two things that that just if if nothing else is going on, those are going to motivate you. And and those are the two very the fear of death and and sexual activity are the two things the enemy uses probably the most in in our lives for for controlling us in some way.

SPEAKER_01 45:59

Well, it's uh well we need to kind of land the plane. I didn't realize what time it was getting to be, but I I I I'm glad we I'm glad we got into this. And this is not an exhausted conversation on this particular area, but I think it is a very needed and necessary part. And from a Christian perspective, um, I'll throw this out there because as a pastor, you're privy to a lot of stuff. But when you find out sometimes that you know people say I'm a Christian, but then you find out that they're involved sexually with other people, I'm like, well, have you not have you not really read the New Testament here? I mean, what part of the New Testament are you are you ignoring here? Yeah. And uh because I I it's almost like people have the approach, even in some Christian circles, that you know, it's like buying a car. I gotta test drive this thing to see if I like it or not.

SPEAKER_03 47:06

I I I was listening to an interview with Che On. He's a South Korean pastor in in California. He was on a TV show, Alan Dershowitz, Che Ahn, somebody else, I think, and they were debating uh something. I you know, just I don't because it was more political than it was spiritual. But Alan Dershowitz asked him, Well, where in the New Testament does it say that homosexuality is bad? And he listened. And Che On used that very verse you read. And he'd use that very verse, and then Alan Derschwitz going, I mean, he didn't know what to do, he didn't know what to say, because here's a man that knew the verse and it has it listed out. And and he he just he didn't know what to do with that. And I think culture is a lot like that. They they just don't know.

SPEAKER_06 47:54

I'll say real quick, I just saw this yesterday, which I I've said this multiple times, and I think that's not the first time I've even seen this statistic, or I guess it was a poll. I don't remember what it was. I should have screenshotted it so I could have it for today. But um just another little blurb is it says that couples that practice premarital sex or that they move in together, they call that shacking up down here uh in South Carolina. Folks that do that, statistically, their their likelihood of divorce is higher, which the divorce rate's already high. The likelihood those couples will divorce is higher than the ones that wait to move in and have sex till they're married. And this is just my opinion of why that happens, but I think that the reason is, again, this part's just my opinion, that part comes off of a study of some sort, is that you don't you don't really have a high regard or value for the marriage to begin with at that point. At that point, it's just a formality, it's just a ring and a piece of paper. I've heard people, you know, in my age group say that, and I'm like, well, if that's all it is, you can take the ring off pretty easy, and the paper can go into Shredder and you can, you know, sign a new paper to make that one null and void. That's pretty simple. But you know, if it's more than that, and it actually is, because anybody that's experienced divorce, thankfully I have it and y'all have it, but I know people that have, I've I think 90% of the time people would say that's not a pleasant experience.

SPEAKER_01 49:17

So well, you know, that goes back to the statement earlier in in this in this program is the fact that there's a big difference between a covenant that God establishes and the two people because I'm one of our sons recently texted both his mom and I, and he said, Why do y'all think that you were able to go as long as you've gone in your marriage and you're still together and you still love each other? That was from the outside looking in. Because he obviously he sees that. And I and so I responded back and I said, It's pretty simple. I said, When your mom and I stood at the altar together, we had already both committed our s our lives to Christ. So we had a covenant with God, a New Testament, new covenant with Christ. And I said, But that day at the altar, we established a covenant with one another. I said, It wasn't a certificate, it wasn't a contract, it was a covenant with God. That's got us through every disagreement, every sticking point in our marriages over 48 years, because we've had our sticking points, we've had our disagreements, we've had our disapprovals, but we never forsook our love for God, and it our love for God always brought us back to an awareness that we're absolutely responsible to reconcile and to make up with one another and to live an honorable life together as a couple. And you know what? We've both matured and grown because of that. I've learned it's actually sharpened my ability to be quick to forgive. It has. Marriage has. You know what I'm saying? And and I don't mind saying that publicly or privately. And I and you know what? I'm a better man today because of it. Not a lesser man, I'm a better man because of it. You know, men get pushed into these moles of pride and machoism. And you can be a real man and you can be a strong man, but you don't have to be a stubborn man. Because stubbornness is as a sin of witchcraft. It's like rebellion. And that's the thing. People live from that position, especially men a lot of times, and they get into that and they forget that Jesus said, or Paul, you know, Peter was the one that said that God gives more grace to the humble, but he resists the proud. And every time I look into the mirror of God's word and I see myself getting bowed up on something, I'm like, you know what? You'd be better off hitting the floor at this point, face down. I I really do. I mean, y'all do it differently maybe than I do, but I'm just saying how God meets with me and works with me. And I realize one of the points in my life is I always have to make that decision quickly. God gives more grace, and I need grace.

SPEAKER_04 52:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:22

Lonnie Curl needs grace, and I need more grace and more grace and more grace. And so I have to many times hit the deck, so to speak, in my life. And I say, Lord, I humble myself before you.

SPEAKER_04 52:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:35

Because I need more grace, and I know you resist the proud. And you know what? I have never done real well in that category. It always never works out for me.

SPEAKER_03 52:44

You know, the the the the key often is that my wife and I, we love God more than we love each other. I mean, we love each other. We really do. We just love each other, but we love him more than we love each other. And that means if we're mean to each other, you know who's gonna beat us up first. It's gonna be God. My wife doesn't have to say a thing. God's gonna, it's just like you. I might have to be on my face. I should not have said that to my wife or whatever it is I did.

SPEAKER_01 53:14

You ever had a moment you said something you wish you could have got it back before it did?

SPEAKER_02 53:17

Yeah, it's just like you want to grab those words and bring them back in and say, Oh, I shouldn't have done that. Because you know, the Lord, I mean, it's like the Lord just instantly goes, Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 53:28

And it's it's but you know, yeah, this is real stuff. It's a real life. And you know, but yet God does something about the marriage bed. Hebrews 13, 5 says that the marriage bed is undefiled. In other words, God keeps it from being messed up.

unknown 53:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 53:45

If we honor Him, He actually blesses that relationship in every department. I think spiritually, emotionally, physically, you know, I think we benefit from it. We profit from it. I think it's wonderful. And uh, but anyway, Sam, why don't you close us out in prayer?

SPEAKER_06 54:03

Okay, Lord, we thank you for our wives and spouses. The wives, we just give thanks on their behalf for their husbands. It's it's good to have a family. It's all kind of all kind of benefits to adding another person to our life, and you designed it specifically a way to do that in a specific function and purpose. And so I just ask that you take this podcast episode, and as it goes out, just breathe on the practical realities of that wisdom and all the good that that comes out of it. There's a sea of perversion and bad when it comes to the subject of sexuality and how we interact with one another. Um, but you can really clear all that up. So just ask that you just extract the wisdom from this conversation and be a blessing to the folks that hear it in Jesus' name.

SPEAKER_01 54:52

Thank you. So when you were just praying that, I'm thinking on the front seat of my car outside. I was telling Artie when we got out to come in. I said, I picked up uh the third volume of Theology by Helmut Thaliki, a German theologian. The entire third book of his theology series is on sex. That's how that's how much the Bible talks about sexuality, but the it talks about the benefit, the blessing of it, the fruitfulness of it, but it also talks about the perversion of it. And we're living in a very, as Peter said, a very corrupt generation.

unknown 55:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 55:38

Peter was living in that moment, but we're right back in the same place. Jesus said, use the analogy, as in the days of Noah, so shall it be in the days of the coming of the Son of Man. And it's almost like, and then Peter quotes again that same thing. I think we need to all realize how important it is for us to stop and pause and let the Lord really deal with our stuff. And realize He, first of all, He's a helper, He's a healer, He's one that can wash us, He's one that can restore us and reconcile us to Himself. But then there are the parts where we get it worked out and straightened out with one another. And so I encourage you today, uh, I pray that this is an encouragement and a strength to you. If there's something that has hit you that's kind of gnawing at you, maybe take some time and go to the throne room of grace and obtain mercy and help that you need right now. But remember, a life worth living is a life worth giving. God bless you.