Seleana and Timbre discuss FAIR vs DEI

Seleana and Timbre discuss DEI vs FAIR, the new acronym for inclusion.

Source material:

https://hbr.org/tip/2025/01/make-your-workplace-more-inclusive-for-everyone

https://www.british-business-bank.co.uk/business-guidance/guidance-articles/staffing/how-to-hire-and-retain-staff

https://www.british-business-bank.co.uk/business-guidance/guidance-articles/staffing/how-to-promote-diversity-and-inclusivity-in-the-workplace

Check out our website:  www.discopodcast.com

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:03

Hello, everybody, and welcome to Disco Diverse and Inclusive Stream of Conscious Observations. I'm your host, Timber, and with me as always is my fellow host.

SPEAKER_02 0:15

Hello, everyone. It's me, Selena. Welcome. Welcome to our new edition for April. We're moving on from our March to April.

SPEAKER_00 0:23

Right, right. And April's a big month because not only was March was Women's History Month, April is Diversity Awareness Month.

SPEAKER_02 0:33

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 0:34

And I learned that recently too, it's uh Volunteer Appreciation Month. Since I volunteer on a regular basis, I'm gonna do a special episode on that as well. Because volunteering is a special place in my heart. And um, I think it's very important for the community to be in touch with your community.

SPEAKER_02 0:55

Yes, yes, definitely. Yeah, so everybody buckle up for the month of April. That's those those are the topics we'll be talking about, different things um during the week on diversity, and then also we'll wrap in some volunteer, which is also very important, it helps develop leadership too. So those will be for this month, but everybody will check out so we can dive right on in.

SPEAKER_00 1:20

Right. So um Selena and I have had a lot of discussion over what we want to talk about today. Yes, and there's been a political and even social shift away from DEI, even though a lot of people still keep a strong focus on it. It's been focused a little bit more now on FAIR, the acronym FAIR, F-A-I-R.

SPEAKER_02 1:49

Yes, which is FAINES, access, inclusion, and representation.

SPEAKER_00 1:56

Right. Which I which I I I I to be honest, um I think I think it's a little bit more specific, you know, uh, than DEI. In a positive sense. And in the it says it it it it it it it it tells you like what this is what we want to do rather than I'm interested to hear because honestly, I think it's just another way of saying DEI.

SPEAKER_02 2:24

Right, which also I think DEI was another way of saying affirmative action. So and and in saying all these ways in a different way, I think the work is still the same. Uh it's just labeled in it in a way that for people to understand, but you think that this one tweaks it a little bit? Tell me more on how you see this one differently, please.

SPEAKER_00 2:45

Well, um the it it I think what I think the first letter I want would probably address is fair, and that's bareness. And this has been an uh ongoing topic is what is fair in the workplace, the um, especially with pay and um merit-based pay and even the reward system with it with uh bonuses because um oftentimes when I I feel like I I'm I'm trying my hardest, but I don't get the bonus I was expecting, but my neighbor did, but they didn't, um I feel like do as much as I did. So there's there's argument uh for what is fair. Now, if I work my ass off, if I'm doing 60 hours a week and I only get that three percent yearly raise, which is a sort of a standardized raise, exp because it it looks at not only, hey, thank you for sticking with us, but also we're giving you a raise that uh sort of represents um inflation based. And then and sometimes you get a little bit more on top of that. And that's usually from um from review boards, and when you do the self-evaluations, you submit that, then you do your end-of-year interviews and things like that. Um but fair sometimes is like, hey, look, we have X number of dollars to give everybody, no matter who you are, what you do, you're gonna get this, and everybody gets the same. But is that fair?

SPEAKER_02 4:37

Right. Is it because uh, as you were just saying, 60, if you did 60 hours, the other person was doing 40 hours, um, but yet you both got the same amount. Do you consider that to be fair? I I think fair is one of those questions, is what I don't like about fair is fair is an opinion. It's not a fact, you know, and so what some one person decides is fair, another person thinks it's unfair. Um, and so that's where I don't, that's why I don't like that word for fair, is because that is can be defined as uh somebody's opinion, you know, there's too much room within that. In my opinion, with it. But, you know, we'll just yeah. So for the fairness, is it fair for so would you consider fair in that essence? You and this person were in the same position, same level, but you worked like half twice as you know, not even twice, but you know, more like 60 versus 40 um for it, and then you both got the same amount, right? Would you consider that fair or no?

SPEAKER_00 5:48

No, no, I wouldn't.

SPEAKER_02 5:50

Okay, so you think um, so how would it be considered fair? Now let's just say you do 60 hours, somebody does 40 hours, but one of the things that they actually did was really magnificent seemed to have a bigger impact on the company, even though you did everything you were supposed to as well and very well.

SPEAKER_00 6:09

Well, if um if if I if that person didn't get something recognition for that, that might not be fair.

SPEAKER_02 6:20

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's where the fairness part of it comes in. It's just kind of sketchy to me. But you know, I can see, I see what you're talking about, though, because I can understand there's people I have been that person that actually, in my opinion, as well, has done a lot more for companies, been there longer, done more, know more, I'm better for troubleshooting, but yet somebody else has passed me up.

SPEAKER_00 6:46

Well, well, could could that be favoritism?

SPEAKER_02 6:49

Yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 6:50

So that's part of what I think this is trying to eliminate. I I think it eliminates the employee of the month.

SPEAKER_02 7:00

Now, should that be eliminated?

SPEAKER_00 7:03

I would say yes.

SPEAKER_02 7:05

Do you?

SPEAKER_00 7:06

Yeah. I think um recognition in this argument, yes.

SPEAKER_02 7:11

But in general, like so because that would because if we're gonna implement these fair tactics, that means there's no more employee of the month, no more like recognition for doing a great job. And it's been proven by showing recognition to other people, it it creates a more willingness environment, and people actually do strive to try to work harder and appreciate the recognition in the work that they've done.

SPEAKER_00 7:35

Well, through the uh and I'll put the links in the um in the uh in the podcast in the video. Uh in the links for the Harvard Business Review and the uh British Business Bank there uh that uh that I I looked at. Yes, and not only with these, but there's also others. Um I there's I think focus on a team oriented um reward system where uh you know your team to because you usually there's a team of at least five, ten, or fifteen people that work in a particular group of within a business. Um and then you look work on sales goals and things like that. If you work together as a team and you help each other out and and your team does better, your team gets a reward, which is common anyway, even previous to FAIR and DEI. Yes, your your team gets to share this bonus and everybody gets that. And then and then you there's I think there's a system where you review each other too.

SPEAKER_02 8:44

But I think where this is hoping to go is that the team works together and even supports and encourages because there's always somebody on the team that doesn't want to be there and I want to do this, and I just not gonna do as much as the other person who wants to be there, who wants to do it and wants to have it, you know.

SPEAKER_00 9:06

Well, that's sort of the part of the problem and part of the argument is what do we do with this person? But I think it it's it's trying to foster that inclusion and acceptance of this person. Hey, look, let's find your strengths and your your goals, and let's you help, let's let's help you help us.

SPEAKER_02 9:28

See, this kind of I I go back and I think about um back in college when you or in high school and you get a group project. There's always somebody on the group that does way more work than other people, and vice versa, somebody who does a lot less work than the other people on it for group activities, no matter what, no matter how hard you try to encourage it, no matter how hard you try to, even if you divvy up each duty to the people individually, they still somehow, you know, they look they they won't do as much in-depth or as much work for it, their section, or they go above and beyond.

SPEAKER_00 10:09

That's a good example. And for another, when you how you and I met for disco in college, yes, you know, I was present, you were a VP. You and I did a majority of the work. We're both right constantly trying to engage people, and there's the fourth, fifth, or sixth student in an order of like who's actually participating. They're not doing anything, and I'm reaching out to everybody. Hey, look, talk to us, right? Yeah, you know, let's let's what do you think? You know, Sam or Sally, you know, um uh we'd love to hear your opinion.

SPEAKER_02 10:48

Can we just, you know, want to hear something from you and we'd get day or crickets.

SPEAKER_00 10:53

Your your opinion matters and nothing, and then I don't know if who the who they what they got for their extra credit for that. I'm sure Dr. C um because she she monitored uh our our chats and and our discussion board.

SPEAKER_02 11:11

See, I don't know because I wasn't part of the class. I just got invited in, so I was not on any, I I had no purpose. I had nothing like you know, it wasn't for class assignment, or I've already took the class and passed it and was okay soaring. So yeah, I didn't get any credits or anything. I literally was doing it because I wanted to do it.

SPEAKER_00 11:32

I'm assuming that she that's uh that's how she did it.

SPEAKER_02 11:35

I'm sure that it is. Um, because when I took her class as well, she did, or she would offer um for those who couldn't participate as much, she did offer also some other work for credit too.

SPEAKER_00 11:47

Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:49

And acceptance. But yeah, I'm not what's what's a because yes, um, and a is oh, I just got rid of it.

SPEAKER_00 11:59

Sorry. Access.

SPEAKER_02 12:00

I think it is access. Um yes, it's access, it is access. So um it's like ensuring environments, resources, and opportunities are available for all, regardless of the background, and access is really important, you know, make sure that everybody has access to the additional training that they need, and access to other departments, you know, especially. Well, I look at it in this way is accessibility as well. So those who who need special services, who are in wheelchairs, who are you know what I'm saying, who have those different needs, it that that's available. There's there's riffs, there's a desk that they can pull up that that can keep at their level, there's the doors that are all there so that no matter what their background or what they come with, that they have the ability to do anything. So it I bet it can fall in both, though, because I can totally see your way as well.

SPEAKER_00 12:53

So access would be even maybe even be uh broader. I mean, because like make to make sure that hey, look, we all have the same opportunity, the same um access to uh to be able to perform our best.

SPEAKER_02 13:14

Yeah, I wonder, you know, I kind of see it being uh to a way to try to combat gatekeeping.

SPEAKER_00 13:21

Yeah, you know, of course, because that because with fairness too, and because like the the the the top dog, the alpha, if you will, um the what the highest performer usually is gonna have have the key to the best restroom, the key to the top floor uh before anybody else. Because sometimes you get that as a reward system. Hey, Timber, you get you get to have you did a great job last month. So you you get ex a key to the executive bathroom with yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:53

Well, let's think about it in a in a work aspect, in a work environment, you know, if you uh are good at your job, you do your job, they hand you uh things and you are insured they they can get them done, it creates trust.

unknown 14:06

Right.

SPEAKER_02 14:06

Because they know that you can do the work, that that trust. And then by creating that trust, which ends up on a more personal level, that's how they start to give you more and more and more access or things, the ability to to other things because they know they can trust you.

SPEAKER_00 14:21

But as you said, access though, or sorry, that gatekeeping, excuse me. Yeah, gate that gatekeeping will get gate other people out.

SPEAKER_01 14:31

It will. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 14:33

Yeah, and that's part of it where I was like, I could see this access trying to kind of combat combat uh gatekeeping by making sure that everybody can like putting it out there. This is what you have, this is what you can do, this is what what each one of these things actually does and how you can benefit from them. Uh which that definitely could help. I mean, to help alleviate gatekeeping, I don't think that's ever gonna go away because it's just one of those things that you know people human nature, right? Yeah, I think it is, it's part of the competition, um, quote unquote, which is also part of our sadly human nature. Yeah, yep, yep, the favoritism and competing.

SPEAKER_00 15:11

And this is but this is an ongoing, it's gonna take us probably years, really, as a society to really get over this. But this is what we're trying to do.

SPEAKER_02 15:20

We're trying to be better as as humans, and yeah, like I said before, in my opinion, honestly, it's just a new way of saying what we've been trying to tell you to do every time, like all the times as it is, you know, it's just treating people like they should be, and even, you know. Um but yeah, so that's that's the interesting. I was curious what they were gonna come out with next, right?

SPEAKER_00 15:46

So, what about I?

SPEAKER_02 15:47

Inclusion, they didn't get rid of inclusion, no, inclusion's either because inclusion's what we really need, like that's the ultimate for all of us to be together.

SPEAKER_00 15:58

Well, I think uh inclusion as well is is is starting to include more the things that are coming out more, like the neurodivergent, yeah. And uh because uh the uh because we we we think differently. Yeah, and and sometimes it's like even with me, I was like Timber. Sometimes they love they love my creative ideas, and then other days I'm like when I'm when I get a little bit more colorful.

SPEAKER_02 16:31

Yeah. Well, you know, and so what it says on here for inclusion is creating a culture where all employees feel valued, respected, and welcomed. Uh so that's for for inclusion, which so their definition for inclusion is more about the comfortability of fitting in, um, and the and having an environment that allows people to be able to feel like they could fit in, and express themselves, express their ideas and even express their beliefs. Yeah, yes. So inclusion for that is so creating an environment where all employees feel valued, like the way, so here we go again. For my this is just my you know, passion for the diversity and also knowing how things get twisted around for all employees to feel valued, but we still need to make sure that everybody is included as an employee. In other words, people can have employees that are all like I go to this, there's this, there's a bar, they only hire women. I swear, I don't I if I if there's men, they're in the they're in the kitchen. Otherwise, there's women at the bars, there's women servers, there's just women for all of that.

SPEAKER_00 17:45

Well, to be honest, that that that I think it it brings people in. I I know I know I know that's not fair and it's not inclusive, and that's exactly bias and things.

SPEAKER_02 18:00

But yep, that's why I was just using it as an example, like for one of those, like so. But their their culture could be where all employees feel valued, you know. But if a man went to go try to apply there, he will not because he won't get the job.

SPEAKER_00 18:13

But is that a man hiring only women? It is okay. Then then then now if it's a woman woman's own business and women women forward business, um you know, and they and they want to hire other women. I understand that, but if um Right.

SPEAKER_02 18:33

Yeah, it's kind of like Hooters, it's kind of like Hooters, you know, you know, the Hooters just had women servers for the longest time.

SPEAKER_00 18:39

It was just a bar for but guys work in the back of the kitchen. Don't ask me how I know that.

SPEAKER_02 18:46

Yeah, so I guess it's kind of a spin-off of Hooters.

SPEAKER_00 18:49

It's not Hooters, it's not the part that I was talking about, but I I thought I thought they were going to do a restaurant instead of the owl that was gonna be their mascot, is gonna be a rooster.

SPEAKER_02 19:01

Why a rooster?

SPEAKER_00 19:03

Think about it. Come on. Oh Lordy Jesus, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:08

Well, you know, yeah, up and at them.

SPEAKER_00 19:12

I wonder who's gonna be working in the kitchen for that.

SPEAKER_02 19:15

Yeah, yeah. Seriously. I bet you'd be women. I was gonna say that. I bet you'd be women, you gotta have that good food to warm the heart. That's that's probably where we would come in pretty well. Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_00 19:28

I I don't know if that that idea took off or if that was a joke that I heard because because uh it was it was an interview with women who are trying to sue, and this has happened before. There's been a number of lawsuits on on the sexism of uh of Hooters. Um, but they said and I think maybe maybe they said it as a joke at the end of the their their news segment.

SPEAKER_02 19:50

Maybe, yeah. Um, yeah, they could, but you know, and those things backfire as well, because like you said, a woman wants to create a business and she only wants to hire nothing but women. It's kind of the same thing, no matter what the reason is. Yeah, it's still the same, you know.

SPEAKER_00 20:08

And is and is is that a female positivity or is that sexism?

SPEAKER_02 20:14

Right, right. Moving companies out just want college guys, right? You know, because it promotes and it makes money, right? Uh, but so like the same thing. There's a lot of different companies, I'm sure, that we could get into, but yeah. So this is a new style so far, right?

SPEAKER_00 20:31

R is representation, and I don't know I want to cover I a little bit more okay for inclusion. I I think what they're trying to do with that too is when you're sitting around the round table, um, everybody has uh will have a time to say something if they need to. They'll even be name called, you know, not not to call them out, you know, you know, put them on a spotlight, but each person will often have time to say something.

SPEAKER_02 20:59

And you know what, each person will say something if it is a truly inclusive environment that people feel comfortable in, you know, then people actually will say something, and that's the key, you know, is that comfortability, and even the the if a person is quiet, reserved, they are encouraged to to find um their strength and speak up, not that they have to or they're gonna be judged if they don't, or anything like that.

SPEAKER_00 21:31

That inclusive environment is to foster hey, look, you can say what you think here. Yeah, I'll even if we don't like your idea, we can we still would like to hear it.

SPEAKER_02 21:42

Right, exactly. And that's how great ideas actually are developed. And it's not some a lot of times, the most great ideas is not one person's idea, it's a group of people's ideas put together that makes that idea so great. And that's why inclusion is so important.

SPEAKER_00 21:57

Well, that's what FAIR and DEI want. Is to bring outside ideas in to see if that can actually make us better. Because if we're only hiring women, we're only hiring men, we're only hiring this group or this education or this college, then we're we're limiting ourselves. And that goes into genetics and and how we exist as as a civilization and how diversity happens, not not just with you know black versus white or anything like that in the gene pool in the animal kingdom. You need different people and genes and ideas to come in and grow.

SPEAKER_02 22:52

Yeah, to develop, to help us develop into our fullest. Yes, 100%. That is how you grow, is it's being with other people and together. That's how you you do the most growth, I think. Right. Um, yeah, the most beneficial growth. And in seeing that, and also you know, that gives room for conflict, which conflict is growth as well. As long as you handed it, as long as you handle it correctly, you know how to handle just like criticism is growth, as long as you take it correctly. It's the same thing. Uh but yeah, developing those rooms and those faces to be able to give that.

SPEAKER_00 23:25

I I is power. Every opinion will matter no matter how strange it is, and it and and it's an and it's accepted as an idea.

SPEAKER_02 23:36

It's you're not laughed at or anything, or brings me back to school where there's no stupid question.

SPEAKER_00 23:42

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 23:43

Yeah, you know, there's no stupid comment, there's no stupid question. Uh everybody just say whatever.

SPEAKER_00 23:49

I think I think they may say there might be stupid answers, but even in the f in the term of I, there's no stupid questions, there's only stupid answers. I I think in the terms of I, you know, I mean, if you if you the this if there's no stupid idea, right? Yeah, no, there's it maybe it may be stupid, but it's just like no, that that's a great idea, Timber. That's a great idea, Selena. Right, yeah. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 24:16

But how many people have we heard of that was turned down left and right? People thought I was absolutely insane for this idea and all that, and they turned out to be millionaires, and it's very successful. And a lot of society is really grateful that they came up with it. The umbrella and the drink, like you know, it's something so little and small. Like, really, you think everybody's gonna want to put an umbrella in their drink? Guess what? We do, right?

SPEAKER_00 24:41

So, what about R then?

SPEAKER_02 24:44

So, R representation, which I think kind of falls into what I was talking about with the inclusion, how that kind of left that little wiggle room because it's all employees, but it didn't state that your employees also needed to be a plethora of different people, uh, just to help you guys build. And that's where this representation comes in. And it says it even says the D word in here, uh, reflecting the diversity of the broader community within the organization's workforce and leadership. And leadership. Let's say that again because that's key.

SPEAKER_00 25:16

Well, that representation, I mean, that means people of color are represented, and then that's even more of a probably a broader term because you know, there's you know, what for whites, there's you know a number of countries of Europe and other countries who are mostly come in the white complexion. But people of color, there's a lot more diversity in different countries that come to that. Um each race in a well in a way needs to be represented. I mean, that's what the UN is, in a way. Um as long as you accept their terms of their charter, you're welcome to come and be represented. It's a very I think it's a very comfortable terms of a charter to accept. Um but uh but in the workplace, in the decision making, there are people, I mean, I I think they're trying to expand that, aren't they? To say, hey, look, you you know, all everybody that this business affects gets to have gets and our employees gets to come to the table.

SPEAKER_02 26:24

Right. And representation also it's it's it's culture, it's race, it's ethnicity, it's ability.

SPEAKER_00 26:32

Yeah, as well. Not just race.

SPEAKER_02 26:35

Yeah, not just race. It's also your social economic status as well. Like all of those things take into factors and and they do the you you get different people and different results as when when you get of all of those together. You know, it's beyond just our our physical looks, right? Or abilities, or abilities, yeah, or education, like even education levels as well. You know, uh, you want you need people who who don't have that much quote unquote education and people who have weighed that a ton of education, PhDs and whatnot. But I will tell you, my most famous saying that I have said so many times the level of stupidity that like for the most intelligent people's level of stupidity amazes me. Yeah, like there's some things that are so intelligent, but there's something I'm like, but the level of stupidity for certain other things, they're not. That's where representation and inclusion come in handy.

SPEAKER_00 27:34

Is is that what implicit bias is, where you just no matter who you are, you're gonna have a bias and bias towards something?

SPEAKER_02 27:42

Uh possibly, yes. It could definitely fall in the realm of biases 100%, or it could just fall in the realm of you know how people say your book smart but no common sense.

SPEAKER_00 27:53

Yeah, and unconscious attitudes or stereotypes that affect under understanding actions or and decisions in an involuntary manner.

SPEAKER_02 28:02

Yeah, no, yeah, it's and it's just like and mixing, like, you know, somebody who has street smarts, grew up in the street, and somebody who who has the education smarts, like who who specifically just had the college education and stayed with all the more well-to-do, but the other the they can combine and come up with something great, but I promise you they're gonna have two different perspectives on a lot of things that are gonna be beneficial to each other, right?

SPEAKER_00 28:27

And you know and that's and that's our that's a representation, and you know, you can you everybody can can bring in inclusion and uh that the whole FAIR is you know, it's like because I mean that Street Smarts will will tell you hey, look how a fashion brand is gonna be better for people who are more urban, not and not not urban in as in any race, but people who you know, people who don't wear a suit and tie all day, you know, or people who do wear a suit and tie all day probably aren't gonna be the best decision makers who makes and designs Reeboks or Nikes.

SPEAKER_02 29:05

Right, right. You know, that well the entry level to the C-suite people, you know, those people in between there. One thing I would say, like, if people do develop this, get everybody together by being with a group of different people, and in that it will it not only like builds companies up and great ideas and do all of those, but for us as human beings, it will open yourself up to the biases that you didn't have any idea you had or you did have, and now you're gonna understand to be able to change them because you know what? You're gonna see people as a person instead of that category, you know, for a minute, because we're all together and they're that person, but you're not gonna see them as that category necessarily. And if you have some biases against that category, no matter, you know, this goes always. It helps to be able to develop an environment in those levels to be able to sit down and have those conversations that are difficult conversations to have sometimes, but also to um enlighten each other on as to why things are the way they are or people think the way that they think, and why you think that they should go this way or that way, and who it would help and so forth. It just grows us as a humanity so much better.

SPEAKER_00 30:14

You're right. You know, the the the diversity class and the LGBDQ literature class that I took, um, you know, they they helped me out a lot as like, you know, there's a stuff I was aware of, but there it it it opened up, you know, it you know, implicit biases, the unconscious, you know, the unconscious, you know, or stuff that you know, um were buried, you know, from other experiences.

SPEAKER_02 30:43

Which I think that's a lot of the benefits of college, per se, um, in the classes you end up in, you're with so many different people right there, that college room. My sociology class, I learned a lot about a lot of different people and a lot of people but back and forth the same way, but just being together in in these classes and the classrooms, that diversity and the college level that you can learn from each other, that's I missed so much out on when I dropped out of college in my twenties.

SPEAKER_00 31:11

I made some so such boneheaded mistakes. I had such great friends there. I mean, I have fri friends on my floor from uh Sri Lanka, and they uh they brought food out. They they've four about four of them, I think. And of course, you know, they want to stick together because they know each other, they're country, they have things in common, but they made the best freaking food. And they shared it with people on the floor who wanted it, but there's I miss how diverse college was. And this is a tiny little town in northern Wisconsin. It's virtually almost all white for a town. There's a very small native neighboring Native American community and maybe a few other people of color, but exclusively it's a very white town, but it's a it's a wonderful college, wonderful campus, and extremely inclusive and and great part of the U University Wisconsin system. But it thinking back to it, it's like wow, you know that I wish you everybody could have this experience.

SPEAKER_02 32:27

Yeah, I didn't go to college right out of high school, and I wish I would have. I regret that. So I never got to live in the dorms. I never got to experience all the the college parties, the college thoughting the big classes or any little classes or any of that. I didn't get to do any of that. I took a year off, which I I shouldn't have. I should have gone right to school. Um, but I did. So that's what it, I mean, it's what happens. So I took a year off and I got pregnant, um, which is also another reason why probably college would have been better. But then I did go to school, but I went to a vocational college then to start my career, you know, because I had a baby on the way in a four-year college, really didn't seem realistic, you know, at that time. Uh, so I wish, I do wish I would have done that too. And it I think it helps people grow so much. And I did make sure that my child did that because I wanted him to experience that. I wanted that experience for him. Like, and I've watched so many movies and shows, and I hear people talk about, oh, they're college friends, it's my college buddy, oh, this is who, you know, I didn't have that. You know, that's why a lot of my friends are from junior high, high school. I don't have many friends from college. You're one of my friends from college, right? But I don't have that many from college because I went at an older age and you're not, you don't bond as much as we get older because we're we're we're doing too much. We're working, we're going to school, we're taking care of our families, we're, you know what I mean? We're there to try to help handle some business. Um, hopefully we're lucky enough along the way to meet somebody that you can, like we did, and able to be friends, you know, beyond college and you know, and stay together. But I do, I do, I am sad that I missed that. And I I highly recommend for anybody who's able to to be able to go do that. It's hard, it's expensive, it's insane to be able to afford it too. So I understand how it doesn't happen.

SPEAKER_00 34:18

Community colleges are yeah, and I'm not I don't want to say that they're completely affordable, but uh, you get a reasonable, yeah. They're a lot more you get a reasonable education and worthwhile education.

SPEAKER_02 34:33

You do, you do, and you can get some of the college experience. You don't stay in the dorms, which that's one of the things I kind of would have liked to try to see.

SPEAKER_00 34:40

But you know, hang out on the quads, you you make sure you go to the social groups, it got that go on your credit too, which is really important. Make sure you sign up with as many student groups, you know. Um, I hung out with the American Sign Language Group. Yeah, and and attend it.

SPEAKER_02 34:58

That's just it, though. Don't just sign up, yeah. Actually attend it and be and be present for those groups and for the different uh networks. You can see so many things online to be able to get together, but that's also the value of in-person classes versus online classes.

SPEAKER_00 35:16

Online was a mistake.

SPEAKER_02 35:18

I should have um I know online for you's been rough. Um I loved online, don't get me wrong, but that's because once again, I was working two jobs and going to school full time, so it was like but make sure you do a few classes in person. Yeah, yes, 100%. Because yeah, that my sociology class that was in person where I learned so much. There's a lot of classes that in person in the in-person conversations that you have, and there's a lot of times you hear things in person, and that's what actually makes you remember the stuff too, or triggers.

SPEAKER_00 35:49

So and the time you spend on campus and be able to have first access to the instructor.

SPEAKER_02 35:55

But us talking about this, those are also very real reasons as to why uh there's a push for colleges to accept people from multiple cultures, multiple social economic statuses, not just the same one percenters or less, you know, um all going to one place. Those are also this is also the benefit. And we we see that as a college, and it seems like um we know that as a college when we're at the college level, we understand it. And then we get out into this real world, and um, those who get up to the higher ups, like corporate higher levels, for some reason feel as if they don't need like the colleges shouldn't be integrated or they feel like it's unfair when it's not. Like that's actually where you build character, where you build knowledge, and where you release your biases. Like there's so many things that that actually helps. So um, that's also where fair DEI, affirmative action, whatever you want to call it, is so important.

SPEAKER_00 36:58

Well, and that's what we're gonna probably uh really start touching on in our next podcast is human rights and civil rights.

SPEAKER_02 37:07

Yeah, what's the difference? You know, and and why is there a difference?

SPEAKER_00 37:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:13

Yes, that will definitely be our next our next podcast. I'm excited for that one as well. I was excited for this too, but yeah, that'll lead into that just to talk about it. I mean, it's something food for thought. It's a good food for thought. Just like, is fair fair? Is fair DEI? Do you think fair is the same or is it different? What was DEI fair? And did you think that it wasn't? And in it's odd because a lot of those people who don't think DEI was fair are those people who uh, well, for one, they just saw DEI as a racist, racial technique when it's not, it's well beyond that. Or for two, they um yeah, they just they didn't understand the the access and the help and the benefits that it gave for so many people.

SPEAKER_00 37:58

Right. They're learning. Yeah, so please, you know, especially uh on on a YouTube channel, put in the comments you know what you what you think of DEI, what you think of FAIR. Is there a difference?

SPEAKER_02 38:14

Right. And is there a difference? Yes, yes. Let us know. Let us know your thoughts, and please come back and join us next time for human rights versus civil rights.

SPEAKER_00 38:25

Yeah, yeah, that's because that's a big one because Selena and I have differing up different opinions on it. Yes, so I'm really excited to touch on that.

SPEAKER_02 38:35

Yes, I am too. Yep, so yes, thank you.

SPEAKER_00 38:38

So thanks everybody. We'll see you next week.

SPEAKER_02 38:42

Yep, see you next week. Bye, good night.