From the Middle of Everywhere

Seleana's and Timbre's 1st episode under their new format of recording in studio together.  We interview Timbre's long time friend Cassaundra and discuss heritages and races, how we are perceived and treated by those around us by our skin color and appearance of heritage.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Hello and welcome to Disco Diverse and Inclusive Stream of Conscious Observations. The podcast where identities are mixed and the opinions are spicy and the conversations well they wander and but in a good way. Today we are going to dive into spinning through identity, culture, and whatever else pops into our heads. Because this is a stream of conscious discussion, not a TED talk. Here at Disco we celebrate the between spaces, the places where cultures overlap, collide, and sometimes argue over who gets who gets the C's and the tick the chickens. So grab your headphones, your curiosity, and maybe a snack where whichever side of your family cooks better. No judgment. And let's get into today's episode. I am your host, Timber, and with me as always is my fellow host.

SPEAKER_01 0:57

Hello, everyone. It's me, Selena. Welcome.

SPEAKER_00 1:00

Today's guest is my very good friend Cassandra, who we're just discussing. We met 15 years ago.

SPEAKER_02 1:08

Yep. That's a long time.

SPEAKER_00 1:10

Yeah, yeah, it has. And a lot of great, great memories. I'm sorry that we lost touch for a while there.

SPEAKER_02 1:17

That's definitely great to be reconnected.

SPEAKER_00 1:19

So we wanted to talk about your cultural history.

SPEAKER_02 1:22

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 1:23

Why don't you give us a brief, brief history about that?

SPEAKER_02 1:26

All right. So um I have a very diverse group. My grandmother is uh first generation from Costa Rica. Um, and my uh grandpa's side, they're all from Louisiana. They're Creole. So all of the Creole people come from the same um the same African princess that was kidnapped by her own people. And um she was sold as a slave, but the guy that bought her said, You're not my slave, you will be my wife. And that's how the Creole people started. So um that was seven generations ago. Um, on my dad's side, um, you know, I lost all records of my father's side because my grandpa was Ukrainian and he was here for the war. So I don't even know too much about that side, to be honest. Um, because he, you know, with my grandma had a one-night stand and um, you know, he went back home. So uh that's that's kind of on my dad's side, and there's a whole bunch of other stuff. Like um, I know that we're part German, Irish, and there's a whole bunch of just mixed stuff I don't even know about.

SPEAKER_00 2:34

Selena, tell us about yours.

SPEAKER_01 2:36

Yeah, well, yeah, I'm looking forward to this conversation, as I was saying before, because you know, I'm basically like a cultural smoothie, um, blended and sometimes a little confusing, and but I'm surprisingly good for you. You know, I used to tell everybody I'm the best of both worlds. Like that's where I consider myself. So um, I know we were talking about this before earlier. I'm I'm like native, I'm a couple different types of native. I'm black and white. If we just want to just have it be simple, but you know, of course, go more into the depths than I have like I'm Scottish and I'm Swedish and I um am Irish as well. Um, I have I'm Lakotasu Indian, I'm Blackfoot and Indian. I'm unsure of my African descent, you know, um, of where it comes from. I hadn't haven't done a DNA and I don't know where that, but obviously somewhere it's there on it. So yeah, I'm excited to talk about this because we've had a lot of the same experiences being, as I like to call it, multicultural women. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 3:32

And I'm French, Irish, English, and German. All right. I'm white on white on white on though, even though I identify mostly Irish, probably obviously because of my red hair, but we didn't really celebrate any of those heritages in my family when I was growing up. We had huge family reunions, but everybody else there is white on white on white on white.

SPEAKER_03 3:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:54

And we never really discussed our heritage or our history, even though I'm pretty much one or two generations away from Ireland.

SPEAKER_01 4:02

Right. And then you have German on you as well. So there's some good history in your culture.

SPEAKER_00 4:08

And we have very thorough documentation in our family records of going back a couple hundred years. So we know who my family is.

SPEAKER_01 4:16

That is the one blessing that white people have.

SPEAKER_00 4:19

I was just gonna talk to that.

SPEAKER_01 4:22

You know, yeah, you you have documentation of the history. Our history's been washed away, lost, stolen.

SPEAKER_02 4:28

That happened to my grandma. So she has dual citizenship in Costa Rica and um in America, right? She went to Costa Rica to go um uh something with her citizenship or get a passport, and they said that she didn't exist.

SPEAKER_01 4:42

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 4:43

Isn't that crazy? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:45

And then how do you prove that I here I am? Right.

SPEAKER_02 4:47

And well, what if I want a citizenship in Costa Rica now?

SPEAKER_03 4:50

Right.

SPEAKER_02 4:51

Because they don't know that she exists. And um how they found out is they had to talk to the people like who's this Lucy woman, you know? Like, uh-huh. And it's just so crazy because, like, well, now we don't have history on her parents and her parents' parents, and I just have to rely on stories on, you know, what my grandmother told me.

SPEAKER_01 5:10

That is crazy. Yeah, and she totally lost. So they never did they ever did she ever get her citizenship or any of that fixed?

SPEAKER_02 5:15

Yeah, she's she well, she has a US citizenship, but yes, she did ultimately get that fixed. They had to like verify with multiple people that live there that she was actually Costa Rican because she's lived in the US since she was nine. So um, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:30

I love that that's a culture that actually, because we talked about this before as well, listen to the history of word of mouth. Because there's so many that no longer do listen to the history of word of mouth, and they actually consider that a great validation for citizenship.

SPEAKER_00 5:44

So well, a lot of cultures are only done by word of mouth, their history and their their stories.

SPEAKER_01 5:50

Because yeah, they are, but you know, in our current society, we're having to show proof of our yeah, you know, history. And without, you know, and our proof is by mouth, because you know, my grandma told me that that's where I came from and how this all happened. It's it's hard to give that proof.

SPEAKER_02 6:08

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 6:09

Well, when did you first realize you didn't fit neatly into a cultural box?

SPEAKER_02 6:14

Um, gosh, probably early on, because my my mom heavily identifies with being black, like she's a lot darker than me. And um, my dad's side I didn't really get to know that well, but I feel like it was kind of like when I was younger, because my mom told me I'm not black, but she's black, but I'm my mom. So I was really confused by that. And um, I don't know, it just never really made any sense to me. And it still kind of boggles my mind. How could you say I'm not black? But yet you take so much pride in being black yourself, but I can't have part of your pride.

SPEAKER_01 6:47

I wonder. Yeah, that's interesting. I wonder why she didn't want you to associate yourself with being black just because it you had a lighter skin tone. Or I wonder if it was, did she ever tell you? Like, is it due to like society?

SPEAKER_02 6:59

Because I know back when I was like, I think it's society-based. Like, um, this is like really hard for me to even say this, but I'll be a little vulnerable. But when I came to Minnesota, um, she told me on my way out that I need to watch out because I am now the enemy, because I am white appearing.

SPEAKER_04 7:16

Oh.

SPEAKER_02 7:16

So it's she, I don't know. I think this is a her thing. Yeah. More than anything. Like, there's some issues there, obviously.

SPEAKER_00 7:24

But you're you're the enemy to her, or you're the enemy coming here. Being here, you're gonna be the enemy to be.

SPEAKER_02 7:30

Being here because the whole George Floyd thing was um happening. So she saw me as the enemy, as the white person. And I got that a lot back at home. Like um, I would be taking people's orders at uh In N Out Burger. That's where I worked. And um, if I asked sometimes like a person of color, hey, could you move up, please? And they're like, you're just saying that because of this. And I'm like, I I I don't even know like how this is getting drawn. And it's I've received like more hate, I feel like from sometimes sometimes the black side of the family because I'm not black enough. I don't know if you can relate to that or I don't know. It it feels a little uncomfortable even saying it.

SPEAKER_01 8:11

No, and it's sad. I I can um I can't personally relate, but I understand yeah, uh how that goes and being denied. And that's that's really tough and hard, and that's really too bad. I have nieces that you would never guess were black at all. Um, uh one of them, she burns like nobody's business, blue eyes, paler than pale, you know what I mean? And um, you'd never guess, but they know they are they are black. Like, and we made sure to let them know, like, you know, yes, this is part of who you are. This is real, like this, you are, you know, their dad's black.

SPEAKER_02 8:48

Right, right. And it's it's it's bizarre to think about. Like, like I never actually thought about it until I just spoke it out right now. I'm like, that is kind of a weird thing. And then uh to top it off, I was told that my white side of the family wanted nothing to do with us because we were colored. So I'm like, so I'm hated for like where do I fit in here?

SPEAKER_01 9:07

That's rough. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:09

It it was so like bizarre. And it's it's a lot of gaslighting too. And I think this is a lot of internal stuff that my mom feels within herself that she might have projected outwards. So I forgive her for that, but it's it's just weird to kind of like analyze it now. It's like, whoa, like it, I do, I do feel like I've been in both lanes. Um, but some of my uh darker friends would sometimes they would see success, right? And they would say, Well, that's because you're you're white. You've had it easy. And I feel like I get the reverse side of it more than I get anything. Like I don't get to complain about my life. I don't get to say I've gone through struggle. And I think that's kind of the hardest thing for me was getting accepted by people of color sometimes, not so much white, because I look white. So to me, it it was always just naturally easier. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 9:57

Right, right, which I could see that definitely being naturally easier um for it. I would say to those people who say, you got this because your skin is this color and you got that or whatever, um, you don't understand the struggle, is you don't understand the struggle of not being accepted by anybody because you don't think I understand the struggle. So my struggle is actually a lot more isolated because I'm on an island by myself. At least you guys have each other to turn to to support each other, where I'm over here on an island all by my own. Like trying to figure out where who am I and where do I go? And then be and then to be proud of who you are has to be hard.

SPEAKER_02 10:40

Yeah. Yeah, it is because you're shamed on one side and then you're shamed on the other. And it's like, okay, am I supposed to love myself? And obviously there's some trauma there. So right, right, right. But it's um, you know, uh, you're you're completely right. Like, how do you accept yourself when both of the sides have not accepted each other? So, and it's weird because you guys fell in love with each other, right? Right. So, and you made this beautiful baby, and like, yeah, I don't know, it's just it's mind-blowing to me.

SPEAKER_01 11:07

Yeah, yeah, I could see that it would be for I mean it is for me as well. But I have grown to learn that my family is unique in the sense of my family's like family, like we are family, we love each other no matter what, on and we're there for each other. And it's something I thought was all normal. But as I've gotten older, I realized that there's not that many families that are like this.

SPEAKER_02 11:30

Oh, yeah. And that when did that uh hit you? Because that's a whole realization on its own, in its own healing journey.

SPEAKER_01 11:38

Yeah, I I was probably in my in my um mid-20s when it hit me. Yeah, that I'm like, this isn't that's not normal. Like it's not a normal family. Isn't that what your family does for you? Right. You know, no, it's not. There's it's rare to find family that support each other and love each other like my family does um for each other, no matter what, and able to have like difficult conversations or say anything and any of that. But know that we're always gonna be there for each other. I just can't imagine not having my family. And I can't imagine that people not understanding that this is how you are to love family and to treat family because they don't know, they've never had it. So they don't know, right? Which is difficult. I don't know. I don't know how is your family close, Timber? Like, are you guys close and really supportive for each other?

SPEAKER_00 12:26

And yeah, I would say we were. Um, not so much now. I think as adults, we've been starting to grow apart a little bit more. We have our own families and we've gotten pretty busy. But I I remember growing up, we had a very, very close-knit family and family reunions where we're having 50 of us there. Multi-generation, we're spending a week together. And I to be honest, I really, really miss that quite a bit. Being in touch now, now I don't talk to my cousins. I would like to I reached out, I reached out to my uncles and my aunts. Um, but other than a couple interactions on Facebook or something like that, and call my parents maybe once a month, and I should um that I should call you more often. Absolutely. Um I should call my sister and my brother more. Um, we've grown apart quite a bit. And it's really disheartening for that.

SPEAKER_01 13:20

Yeah, yeah, that it is. That's too bad. Yeah, and I'm guessing, well, obviously your family has a lot of division and oh, let me tell you.

SPEAKER_02 13:28

So my uh half of my family are police officers and the other half are inmates. Oh. So when you want to talk about division, yes. Okay. Yeah, and uh there's cultural division, there's uh like social division. It's it's a very, very chaotic dynamic.

SPEAKER_01 13:48

So do you guys have family gatherings?

SPEAKER_02 13:50

We do. Um, I haven't attended them in the past couple of years. Um, I kind of um I came up here and uh traveled to Minnesota on my own. Um, so I didn't know a single person here.

SPEAKER_04 14:02

Oh.

SPEAKER_02 14:02

Just packed up all my bags one day and I just went, I'm gonna go to Minnesota. Great question. So I did my research of all 50 states. I looked at the cost of living, economic growth, what the natur uh what the natural disasters were, what the average person made, uh, air quality, water quality, everything, right? Wow. And Minnesota came number one in my independent research. And then I started reading articles about where's the best place in America to live. And um, Minnesota was always number one or number two. And this was in the middle of George Floyd. So everyone thought this was this crazy idea. I'm like, stop paying attention to the media and just you know, like just do your own research. Yeah. Like numbers don't lie. The the the medium, or I'm sorry, the the middle class is very healthy here. And you actually see where your tax dollars go here. And it's weird because now we're being exposed for all this fraud, but what about California? How bad was that over there?

SPEAKER_00 15:00

Incredibly bad. What I what I know is largely for where I am in Vancouver, Washington, um, is that we're a little suburb and very, very white there as well. There's very, very few people of color. In fact, I don't I don't remember the last time I saw anybody of color. Um but the economy difference is the is vastly different. And what I was took really, really for granted here is our healthcare system.

SPEAKER_02 15:28

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:29

The University of Minnesota, I believe, contributes a lot to everything here for as far as medical care. Granted, we have other medical institutions here for care, but the prov the availability of care and the access to care and the affordability of care, even though healthcare is very, very expensive. I'll acknowledge that. But um, the difference in the quality is so vastly superior, and I believe for anywhere else in the country.

SPEAKER_02 15:58

I mean, I feel like I wouldn't have had a chance if I stayed in California. I'll be honest, it was just too competitive. People were always putting you down. It was a doggy dog world out there, and the rat race was real. So when I come here, I do a little bit, but when you come here with a quarter of that like hustle from California, like I've been on the front page of the news over here already. I've started my own business. Um, like I'm super successful here, but it's because you're you're able to flourish here.

SPEAKER_01 16:24

One thing I will say though, as a person who's always lived here all my life, from here, those who come here have more opportunity than those who have lived here.

SPEAKER_02 16:33

Okay. Tell me about that.

SPEAKER_01 16:35

Um, you get more options, there's more things that are available for you to have for support for whether it is financially, uh, there's different paths, like just from not being from Minnesota, the history isn't as deep within the Minnesota. Like, I can't qualify for dilly squat to help me for anything. Um, where I will watch other people who will come right and they get help. And if like if I had just that months of help for a boost, I could also go a lot of, but I can't even get a couple months of help where people are coming and they're getting six months to a year of help to get on their feet and to get established and stable.

SPEAKER_02 17:16

Is that fair is that for like people that are coming from out of state?

SPEAKER_01 17:19

Because out of state and for I never got my money out of state. So depending on you know what I'm saying, like where you're at. But a lot of people from out of state and from um from other countries. Like I know Minnesota is is a known trade place for a lot of different, and it's because we're we need we need more people.

SPEAKER_02 17:40

There's not enough people to make more babies, and so we need to import. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:45

Well, and we help those that aren't from here, but there's few of us that are from here or not, you know, that actually have gotten the help that to help get that boost. You just don't get it. So it's like you're working harder. And I've heard so many times from so many people who aren't who come here and like, I don't know why anybody in Minnesota isn't surviving. I don't know why everybody isn't successful here. Because we don't get those same opportunities. We don't get that same chance that you get. We don't have those same resources necessarily that are fed to us that when you're from here, then when you moved here, they want to help you more. They want to help give you more to make sure that you stay.

SPEAKER_02 18:20

That's very interesting to think about. I I I honestly never knew about this. And now I'm kind of like, ah, I wish I knew. Like, because that could have been a big help. Like, I just remember um I had to work three jobs when I first moved here just to be able to afford like a one-bedroom apartment, and I was driving myself like crazy. So that would have been a big help.

SPEAKER_01 18:42

And yeah, and it does, and it does help for a lot of people to be able to do that. And getting the job, yeah, coming from out of state, you're more likely to get hired really than you are if you're from here. Really?

SPEAKER_00 18:55

That's interesting because I've been thinking a lot about that. Because obviously, I I mean I have a lot of white pr privilege about me, but I also find it difficult to find resources and needs being a white male.

SPEAKER_01 19:10

Which is surprising. Right.

SPEAKER_00 19:11

Sometimes I feel like I'm overlooked. Just how just how my my feeling and my experience is here. Sometimes it feels like it was goes to other places.

SPEAKER_01 19:20

Yeah. Now, when you say uh other places and overlooked, are you getting the same feeling as if like those the quotas are getting you and submission you I think that, but I try not to use that as a to form a really definitive opinion. In thinking that, think about this though, too. The quotas are a very small percentage that they actually need to meet.

SPEAKER_00 19:50

Sure.

SPEAKER_01 19:51

You know, so if it's for somebody hitting that quota, it's only a small percent that they needed to actually hit that. And it's a larger percent that they that you would be more open to than I have the odds of the small percent jobs, or you have the odds of the bigger percent jobs.

SPEAKER_02 20:06

So it might not necessarily be. I I do think though that the pendulum tends to squink, uh swing back and forth, right? So at one era, we're gonna re-racist towards these people, then there's gonna be an overcorrection. So I think there has been a little bit of an overcorrection, but all that's doing is adding more fuel to the fire.

SPEAKER_04 20:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:27

So, and so I think that's why you're probably experiencing it more now, whereas maybe 10 years ago we wouldn't have, because there is an overcorrection that's in process and it's already been in motion. But I think it's just natural and it'll keep swaying back and forth.

SPEAKER_01 20:43

See, I don't think there's an overprocess, in my opinion, yeah, for it. Uh on on me. And I understand how a lot of people see because there's a higher number and more people, and so they're like, that's less and less and less. But the reality is, is it's I had 2% before and now I have 15, but people are saying that they're mad because I have 15% and I don't have my two anymore. And there's so the pendulum's gone way too far because I have way too many, too much more on it when it, in my opinion, it it doesn't seem to to to have swung too far. But that's what's going to happen for sure. No matter what, it's always what happens. The pendulum seems to swing one way too far or the other. We can't seem to stop in the middle.

SPEAKER_02 21:25

Well, especially when things are so vital right now. Like nothing's very stable. So I I definitely think there's some shaking going on in both ends, and I think that's why no one is listening to each other, why tensions are both high on both sides. And um, you know, I think it's already in motion where it's just kind of like shaking everything up.

SPEAKER_00 21:42

Well, how do we describe our identities and to where we're getting ex ac accepted? And even like when we were younger, like how where we weren't accepted, you know. Um what what were those experiences for us?

SPEAKER_02 21:56

Can you give me an example of what you mean by that?

SPEAKER_00 21:58

Like if um If you said you're this race from this mix, you know that somebody will have a preconceived judgment or notion of what that is and treat you in on the under that notion, even though it's obviously probably their notion was wrong.

SPEAKER_02 22:17

Um, so I guess you're like asking if I could summarize um like has there been a lot of backlash or I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_00 22:24

Yeah, backlash on your identity or or how you even described your own identity.

SPEAKER_02 22:29

I I got more backlash when um from my friends when I would tell them I'm someone of color. Um I would always get more backlash on that side because I'm white appearing. So that's how people are going to treat me. They're gonna so I I don't know, like I've never had darker skin, so I can't say like how my life would be different or how you know someone else would treat me differently because I've never had that experience. Um I've changed my hair quite a bit where I look very different and I've gotten away with like different like looks and stuff where I'm the tomboy and people people will treat me very different. I remember this one time I had long blonde hair, right? And I used to get hit on all the time, and then um girls hated me, then I chopped it all off, just butched it, right? And um, when I had long blonde hair, I used to tell guys I was a lesbian, even though I wasn't, just to get them to back off. And they're like, Yeah, yeah, right, yeah, yeah, right. But when I chopped all my hair off, um, you know, it's a lot harder to talk to guys, and all the ladies loved me. And it was just so weird. And then uh I would tell people, sorry, I'm gay. They're like, Yeah, I thought so.

SPEAKER_00 23:38

Because I always thought you were Asian, full-blooded Asian. When I knew you, you know, it's it's because that's also where we were in northern California. There's a huge larger Asian community, so I naturally assumed you were Asian.

SPEAKER_02 23:50

Yeah, I've got a little bit of Mongolian in me. Yeah, probably about 10%, but um, the Mongolian and the Ukrainian. So Ukrainians look a little, uh, they have uh a little chinkier eyes than Russians, I would say.

SPEAKER_03 24:01

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 24:02

So um, but it's mainly from that side. If you see my dad, he looks very Chinese and white. So uh yeah, it's yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:12

I I remember getting asked in high school, do I consider myself white or black? Um, and then I was like, what do I look like? Yeah, I'm black. I know. Like, and and like you said, you never had those live experiences. I have. I've had those live experiences of the racism, and and you know, I remember being a little girl in a store, and white guys came in, and my brother and sister are like, we gotta go now. And them looking at us, and I'm like, Oh, okay, we gotta go.

SPEAKER_02 24:41

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_01 24:41

And having to go. Yeah. I remember dealing with like all of those types of things. Um, I remember growing up and dealing with a lot of different racism and different stuff. So for me, I can kind of see, you know what I mean, on that aspect. But I also remember when I was in high school, I had a lot of white friends. Um, and then I think it was just more of the population that I was around there, you know, when in school, there was just more white people where we were. Um, but you know, later on I did also develop. But I never looked at like kids, when we're kids, we don't look at people's colors and cultures and religions like that. You know what I'm saying? When you're a kid, put a bunch of two or three-year-olds together, they do not care what your ethnicity is. You know, we're just friends. And that's more of how it went through. But I remember getting asked and getting questioned.

SPEAKER_02 25:30

When do you think the separation starts? Because we're all kids at once. I have my own theory, but I want to know what you guys think. Where does the separation start? Do you think it starts at the home? Do you think it starts at schools? Like, what are your guys' theories? Because you're right, we don't care as children.

SPEAKER_01 25:45

No, we don't.

SPEAKER_00 25:46

Um, I would have to say it probably starts at home that the way our parents bring us up. And then it follows up then in school when you start to divide yourself into cliques with people who look like each look or act like each other, either by the way you dress, your economic status, your skin color. If you're, you know, for for me when I was growing up, is either you're you're in the preppies or the jocks, or you're you're the goth punk, gutter trash. Yes, you know, you don't do well in school, you know.

SPEAKER_02 26:20

What what what were you to society?

SPEAKER_00 26:22

Um, I'm fortunately I was a prep. I yeah. Um I was very uncoordinated, so I was never very good at sports, so I never got into the jocks or anything like that. But I was neurodivergent through throughout most of school. Um, so I never fit in anywhere, um, which was really, really tough. Um, though I so I probably identified more with the anti-social punks and things like that, even though I dressed like this in a nice button-up shirt or something like that. I d I identified with and had more friends in alternative crowds.

SPEAKER_02 26:59

Oh, yeah, same here.

SPEAKER_00 27:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:00

And I wonder like how much we can relate to that being on the spectrum too. So that's um, because I didn't feel like I identified with either group either. So, and I don't know how much uh I'm on the spectrum, I'm autistic. So it's sometimes I wonder like my separations and stuff, is that just my personal inability to connect with people? And so it's you know, a lot of food for thought, like how much of this is me and how much of it is on the outside.

SPEAKER_01 27:26

Well, then also for you with that connection, how much of it is also from home? Mm-hmm. You know, because like just from what you said with your mom right there, that's like it looks like I'm not connected to you. What you're saying, I'm not you, I'm not a part of you then, you know.

SPEAKER_02 27:42

And it makes me feel guilty for even saying that I'm part black. Like, I feel like like whenever and I want to relate so bad to black women, like you have no idea. Like, I almost cried in this woman's arms, like her name is Tinae. She's this like amazing, beautiful woman. And like I told her I was like part black, and like, you know, I was I'm cool, you know? She was like, girl, like say it with some pride, you know? And like, yeah, I was telling her like how I'm so shy to like even say it because like I feel like I always have to say, like, no, I actually am part black, and like I have to justify it. I have to know my family history, and like it's so weird too, because it's usually the people that criticize me the most, I can actually track my ancestors and I can speak to it. But a lot of people that criticize me can't even talk about theirs.

SPEAKER_01 28:26

Right.

SPEAKER_02 28:27

So it's like it feels almost like maybe it's just a projection, you know.

SPEAKER_01 28:31

Yeah, yeah, maybe. And and like I said, it might might start from there. And then also, unfortunately, like within the black community, colorism is real. It's it sucks, it's horrible that it is that we have found a way to divide ourselves amongst ourselves as well, as much as we're trying to fight to belong. You know, it just doesn't make sense in correlating with that. And that's what you have experienced. I have a sister, she is a beautiful dark chocolate, beautiful dark chocolate. And um, when her and I are out together, the way she gets treated and the way I get treated are totally different.

SPEAKER_02 29:05

Really?

SPEAKER_01 29:06

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 29:07

How how different is it?

SPEAKER_01 29:08

They are short and rude to her.

SPEAKER_02 29:10

Really? Yes.

SPEAKER_01 29:11

Yes, they will be short and rude to her, or just or just not try to like, you know, quickly hurry up and finish the conversation, not fully believe or be aware. And if she brings up any type of concern or anything, well, now she's being, you know, that typical aggravated white black woman that's doing too much or any of that. As soon as I say the exact same thing as she would say, all of a sudden they're listening. They're a listen. Yeah. Like they're like listening to me. And she's educated, black woman, beautiful, all of that. And it's just, it's, it's crazy to see. And then I also, though, too, being a light-skinned girl with curly hair and all of that, I had the black girls didn't like me. Yeah. Because I was a light-skinned girl with curly hair. Oh, you just think you're one of those pretty girls. Like it goes back to sadly of the slavery of the house slave and the field slaves, and literally getting talked with that. Like, we're two different. They found another way to divide us, and we fed into it all wholeheartedly and started to hate against it.

SPEAKER_00 30:12

I think I remember that growing up that being mixed was more attractive. That's what people being, you know, lighter skin black or darker skinned white, um, or from both sides, especially in the art world as a photographer model. You know, that's the the skin complexion was uh was an aesthetic that's that's attractive because it photographed well and you could identify it into more races and more cultures, and it was seen as a different kind of beauty then. And I think it's more I think it's changed now.

SPEAKER_01 30:44

Right. Yeah, I'm sure that it has. But you gotta think, let's go back to history of photography. There were some pretty pale white people that they thought were absolutely pretty beautiful, you know what I'm saying, and gorgeous that are famous out there, and there wasn't as many people of color that were photographed and held. If you look at some of those historical, but it all depends on the region that you're looking at, too. Yeah, let's talk about that. Because, like, yeah, like Creole down there, that history, that art that the Creole has, oh, it's rich. It's so beautiful. It's so beautiful. Yes, and it's full of color.

SPEAKER_02 31:20

And the flavors, oh my god, out of this world. So I've got a lot of like spices I love to cook, and all of my favorite spices are from Louisiana, so it's just oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 31:33

My my best friend's mom's Creole. Oh, okay. Um, and from Hunt, she's from Honduras, okay, actually. So yeah, um, and yeah, the food is amazing. Yeah, she's an excellent cook when it comes to certain things. Yeah. Hence why in the beginning we talked about no matter how you want to season your chicken, because every culture has chicken and seasons it differently. That's true. You know, I like that saying. Just bring it on with.

SPEAKER_00 31:59

So talk about that. Is there food identity to your cultures too, or something that you identify with more?

SPEAKER_02 32:05

I love cooking. Like I'm a bit of a chef. So my favorite thing to relate to someone is figure out what type of food they like and then um to recreate something like an infusion almost. Like um, like my boyfriend loves a lot of like hot dogs. He also likes burgers and he likes a lot of spices. And like him and I have very similar profiles. But what I love discovering with him is like his sense of taste. And I love like trying different cultures, and I honestly think some of the best food are infusions. So, you know, like us. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_01 32:41

Yes, the best of the whole world, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 32:43

Well, that's that's becoming more and more of a trend, is is is the fusions of cultures, but is there anything that's about your own individual specific ethnic culture and food specific for that? Like, I love going to certain restaurants and getting like that culture's food. Like, um Chinese here is very whitewashed as far as most restaurants, and I remember this place in China in Koreatown in Los Angeles, and I ordered Lomain. Way different than I get here or any other Chinese restaurant. Is it came in a clear broth? I'm like, what is this? This isn't Lomain. And they they they taught me that that was actually the I mean, I think it's their probably it's me, it might be more regional.

SPEAKER_03 33:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:32

Um, but it they that was their style and the style of what Chinese Lomain is, and that other restaurants will change it for my pet people who look like me, my palate.

SPEAKER_02 33:44

Then that reminds me of like Mexican food, right? Like the Mexican food here versus California versus Texas.

SPEAKER_03 33:51

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:51

Those are all different Mexicans, like they've all got their own spice and flavor and everything to this, too. And I love I love Mexican food. So do I now you're making me want to go to breakfast?

SPEAKER_01 34:02

Like, okay, I need to go to California. I need to go I I know I had some amazing Mexican food in Mississippi. It was awesome, right in Biloxi.

SPEAKER_00 34:10

Oh, it's so good. So, what if food is specific for you that reminds you of who you are?

SPEAKER_01 34:16

For me, it's like greens, macaroni and cheese, um, that good stuff. Um, I love the greens. The the um um why am I going blank? I can like see it in my head. The green beans and potatoes and that mixture, cornbread, like all those good soul foods. That's what for me reminds me.

SPEAKER_02 34:36

I really can't pick one. Yeah, like I I just feel like I have like five children, and you're asking me which one's my favorite. And I'm like, I I just can't like that. I get stuck. Uh I don't think I identify with any one particular food. I think uh I just love enjoying all of it.

SPEAKER_01 34:53

Yeah, that's what you know when you say that too, because I also like a porchetta that's from my mom's side, more on there, you know. The burkettas are so good, and um, so there's you know, it depends on which yeah, I like I have different cultures and different things from the you know, so I like Swedish meatballs. That's you know what I mean? That those are good too. So I agree with you on the different cultures. There's no like one, I just like seasoned food.

SPEAKER_00 35:18

I can't think of one for myself because we never really celebrated a lot of culture, our ethnic culture for our food. We usually just ate American food, pizza and barbecue and variety of things. Um, probably what probably if there's anything that probably identified with mostly is probably venison.

SPEAKER_03 35:36

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 35:37

Because my family were hunters up here. Everybody's a deer hunter, you know, or grouse or fish, you know.

SPEAKER_03 35:44

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 35:44

Yeah, I can't do those. Having short lunches with fresh caught trout off the off the river was probably what I identify with more, but I think that's just more selected to my own family, or I wouldn't say it's selectively cultural.

SPEAKER_01 35:59

Well, I think our culture though is selected to our family. Like, you know, because it's our family that kind of um shows us that culture and brings it in, you know, your upbringing, that's your base. And when you're talking about things that remind you of something, usually we're going back to childhood in a base um that'll tie us in together.

SPEAKER_02 36:18

You know what's funny? Cause uh my mom, not not a good cook. I'm sorry, mom. I'm so sorry. But she would make the same thing every single time macaroni and cheese, burgers, sandwiches, cereal. And oops, sorry, I'm doing the hand thing. But that would honestly be it. And then when um I got older, I'm like, oh my God, I love uh Asian food. I love uh sushi. I love oysters. I didn't have any of this until I was an adult. I tried crab for the first time. I've tried lobster and like all this stuff, and now I feel like I'm finally starting to experience into different cultures because um my mom is very picky. And it's funny because if we didn't like what she liked, we're the picky eaters.

SPEAKER_03 36:56

Right.

SPEAKER_02 36:56

And now that I'm older, I'm like, you are the picky eater. Like, I love everything. And I'll tell her, hey, you want some Indian food? Oh no. And I'm like, okay, uh, do you like sushi? Oh no, it's slimy.

SPEAKER_01 37:12

She's not getting it. Nope. Not open to things. Right.

SPEAKER_00 37:16

So things go well well then if cultures clash, tastes clash, or trends or um celebrations clash?

SPEAKER_02 37:27

Um are you like in the family household? Oh, all the time. All the time. Um, so we have like a minority family, right? And a lot of us grew up like very like um poor. So growing up, there's a lot of trauma that a lot of people haven't healed from. So when we come back to like Thanksgiving dinner or Thanksgiving, there's always, always, always drama. So it's um, I've kind of avoided it for the past two years just because I've got so much stuff I have to figure out on my own. I have a company I'm running, I'm, you know, working a full-time job on top of that. I'm buying a house, I'm doing all this stuff. So it's it's kind of hard for me to to get out during family functions, but it's it's very chaotic.

SPEAKER_01 38:12

So which you know, we hear that's typical for a lot of families, actually. To hear that it's not chaotic is is actually uh rare rarity. But yeah, there's some that are more chaotic than others for sure. Yeah, that's for sure. Uh I I remember growing up there was always a little bit of something that would happen too, but yeah, um, we weren't too too crazy. Oh, that's good.

SPEAKER_00 38:38

Does that translate translate into dating or workplace social situations or peer situations like cultural clashes with that? Uh or assumptions of your race or what you might like?

SPEAKER_02 38:50

Um, I feel like people have a hard time pinning me. So um I'll ask people what they think I am. I've gotten um Middle Eastern, I've gotten um Asian, I've gotten I've gotten everything. Um, I think only one of my friends have ever gotten it right uh right. He goes, You're probably about like 40% right, 10% black. And like he was very particular, and like this guy was heavily on the spectrum. And he was one of the C uh chief financial advisors or whatever, not advisors, but CFOs for Dell. So his his intelligence was very high. But um he studied a lot of culture and all this stuff, and I feel like he was the only person that was able to identify me. And I'm just like, that was impressive. Like, yeah. So I how how's it been with you? Do people just assume half black, half white, or no? Okay, are you from Utopia?

SPEAKER_01 39:41

I get that I'm Ethiopian a lot.

SPEAKER_00 39:43

I get a lot of Afric African, Eastern African cultures here.

SPEAKER_01 39:50

I've people come up to me and start speaking Spanish. They think that I'm Spanish and I'm I I don't know Spanish, sadly. Um, I've gotten that a lot. I yeah, I like I said, I think I'm a chameleon again. Like I seem to fit into a lot of boxes that people are like, I'm like, no, I'm just I'm from here. I'm Minnesotan, I'm just I'm mixed, I'm white, black, I'm native, that's it, you know. But they always think that I'm yeah, you from my country? Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_00 40:17

No, no, you're in mine. Do you do you take offense to that? If somebody guesses wrong, it's especially if it's a really wild out there.

SPEAKER_01 40:26

I don't. I no, no, I don't. I just I but I get it all the time. So it's it's normal.

SPEAKER_02 40:32

I I did this one thing one time when I was a bartender because I got so many different things, right? So I started faking accents just to see what I can get away with, right? So um I would fake accents and people are like, Oh, are you from here? And I'm like, Yeah, I am, just to like see what I could get away with. Oh my God. When you're bartending, you got to keep it fun. Yeah. And then they find out you lied to me. I'm like, yes, I did.

SPEAKER_00 40:54

I I have to dump down my Minnesota accent.

SPEAKER_02 40:57

Oh my God, I have one now.

SPEAKER_00 41:01

Like I hear it, especially when I'm in California.

SPEAKER_02 41:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:04

Because I'll say Minnesota. You know, I'm like, and everybody gives me so much crap for that.

SPEAKER_01 41:09

Yeah, I can believe that. Like I said, I've never been outside of like I've been outside, but I've never lived outside.

SPEAKER_00 41:14

So now I just mumble it. It's Minnesota.

SPEAKER_01 41:17

That way no one can hear it. So say it proud. Minnesota. Yes. We're a good, we're a good place.

SPEAKER_02 41:25

Oh my god, when I call my friends, they're like, oh, don't you know? And they're just like mocking me, and I'm like, oh my god, I'm never calling you guys again.

SPEAKER_01 41:34

It is. I can be, I believe it. I'd be quick to say that uh to people. Yeah. Yeah. Let me tell you, don't you know? Don't you know? Let me tell you.

SPEAKER_00 41:46

So I think I say a more than I realize.

SPEAKER_02 41:49

Do you say bag or bag?

SPEAKER_00 41:52

Oh my god. Bag.

SPEAKER_02 41:54

I I've said bag once or twice.

SPEAKER_00 41:57

Bag.

SPEAKER_02 41:58

See, like it's kind of halfway between bag and bag.

SPEAKER_00 42:00

Right. That's that's that's that's how I tried I tried to change it because I hear myself saying it the street in both extremes.

SPEAKER_02 42:06

You know, in uh California we over-exaggerate our O's. And in uh over here, uh we over no, what do we over exaggerate in California? Because like people couldn't pinpoint where I was from. Was it was a we say things like hella and like yeah, you know, I I I haven't said that word in three or four years now.

SPEAKER_00 42:25

Yeah, yeah, no, you don't pronounce the O. Minnesota you pronounce the O.

SPEAKER_02 42:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:29

In California, you don't.

SPEAKER_02 42:30

It's the A, I think. Yeah. So like my pronunciation would always confuse. It was the A, yeah, because apricot uh or apricot, yeah, that was a big one. And then bag and bag, it was A's. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:42

Because as Minnesota, yeah, as you hear the O, we emphasize our O's more. Yeah, that's how you can tell the difference. That's why it's just like uh oh, wait a way, right.

SPEAKER_01 42:51

Interesting. Yeah.

unknown 42:53

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 42:54

I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 42:55

So what what strengths or perspectives and adaptability has come from your cultures then?

SPEAKER_02 43:02

Um, that's a really good question. Um, so I was primarily raised from my grandma and my mom. Um, and my grandma's very Hispanic. So I heavily identify with Hispanics because, you know, she's straight from Costa Rica and her culture is still very rich. Um, and then with my mom, you know, she really adapted to uh the black side of the family. Um, so I I kind of feel like that's kind of like where I fit in or where I was raised in, but um, I don't know how I was treated was different. How I was treated was as if I was white and all this stuff. So it just never really seemed to fit like who I was versus what society saw.

SPEAKER_01 43:43

Yeah. Interesting. I I've always, you know, I've I've like I said, it was a chameleon type of thing. I kind of fit in everywhere. I kind of blend in a little bit. Um and if I wasn't blending, I didn't know. That's that's a great place to be, you know? Yeah, if I wasn't blending, I didn't. No, I now I've experienced though, especially as an adult, um, I will say things, or if I'm like passionate about something, it's taken as aggression or as um, you know, I'm being aggressive, I'm being combative, I'm doing, you know, if I disagree with anything like that, it has been taken those ways. And I've watched other people say the exact same thing. And it's taken with like it's they accept it. It's not taken negatively, but there's a lot of times for me, I run into that a lot.

SPEAKER_02 44:33

Do you think that has to do with your color or your gender or a little bit of both? Because I feel like I get that quite a bit too.

SPEAKER_00 44:39

Both.

SPEAKER_02 44:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:40

100%.

SPEAKER_02 44:41

Yeah.

unknown 44:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:42

Can you use any of that as strengths as you interact through life? 100%.

SPEAKER_01 44:47

Yes. Yeah. It's a wall. I mean, there's so it's a strength for me because um, for one, it helped me identify myself and to be more confident and comfortable with myself because people were questioning me. And so I had to find that that confidence to still maintain and that I'm okay and that it's okay for me to speak up and it's okay for me to to you know grow and adapt and yeah, to be a human. You know what I mean? Just normal and say some things um with it, which did take me a while because there's a lot of times I was worried about what do they think about me? What do they want me? What am I this? Did I do that right? Did I do not do that right? You know, unless I've had, should I straighten my hair so I look more like a fit in? Should I leave my hair curly? Is it gonna be down? Should I have it up? Just not even worry about it. Um, because that's also been a factor in effect that how people perceive you and take things sadly.

SPEAKER_00 45:41

Would you call them superpowers?

SPEAKER_01 45:43

My superpowers. I call them my superpowers, yeah. The able ability to adapt and, but also the ability to adapt and maintain my own self. Maintain my own authenticity, you know, like I no matter what. Yeah, I'm me. And I won't say I'm unapologetically me because I will apologize because I will be. I love that. I, you know, if I if I offend you, it's not intent, it's not malicious. Yeah. Most of the time. Um, and then so, you know, I won't say I'm not unapologetically. I am okay with apologizing. Yeah. It's lessons, those are all lessons that we all learn.

SPEAKER_02 46:19

So yeah, absolutely. And that's just part of being humble too.

SPEAKER_01 46:22

So yeah, I say you, you know, we live and learn and learn to live. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 46:26

That's what you do.

SPEAKER_02 46:27

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 46:29

What advice would you give to somebody who feels that they don't belong anywhere or with anyone or any group?

SPEAKER_02 46:35

I think looking back now, just keep talking about it because that uncomfortability will, it's gonna be awkward at first. But I think the more conversations you have to kind of break out of that awkwardness, then the better it'll be in the long run. Um, so I kind of wish I embraced a little bit more of um, you know, saying, like, no, I am black and I don't have anything to prove to you. Um, and I wish I could just talk about it and just like say things, but then I worry, like, okay, am I sounding racist? Am I sounding this? Because I'm not, you know, black enough, I guess. But I I kind of wish that um I talked more about it because there's so many things that I identify with with with black women that I never knew about. And now I'm just like, gosh, this is like a whole new layer that I'm discovering and about myself, you know, and finally someone gets it. Like the hair thing, you know, I love changing up my hair.

SPEAKER_04 47:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 47:26

But white people don't do that that often.

SPEAKER_04 47:28

No.

SPEAKER_02 47:29

Like I love chopping it all off. I want to color it blonde. I want to go crazy. I I even got a perm before. Um, but I just love it. It kind of feels like you are a chameleon almost, and you get to see different perspectives. And I think it makes you more worldly too, because the world treats you differently, and then you get to see that firsthand.

SPEAKER_01 47:47

Yeah. Yeah, that's true. They do. They do because they do treat us, treat us different.

SPEAKER_02 47:52

Yep. And that's why you have to think. Do I want to straighten my hair? Because I know that I'm going to get a better response if I do this. And at some point, you don't want to lose yourself. You don't want to say, I'm going to keep appeasing to other people. But at the same time, you still have to play politics. So where's that fine line?

SPEAKER_01 48:08

Yeah, I I crossed that fine line and and Xd out about 10, 15 years ago, possibly. I haven't straightened my hair in forever. Uh, actually, I straightened it one time for one day just because I'd wanted it straight, not for any other reason. I didn't go anywhere. But I actually like to push my natural hair even more on there. And I kind of got a thing of making people uncomfortable. It kind of makes me happy because I was made uncomfortable so much. I like doing that to people. I like reading. Because I like for people to understand their biases. I want to make them know their biases.

SPEAKER_02 48:43

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 48:43

You know, I like to understand it.

SPEAKER_02 48:45

Like, and so when you do that, you get them uncomfortable. Can you give me an example of what you do for like how you might make someone like uh realize that they're being like, okay, hey, that was kind of like racist there.

SPEAKER_01 48:58

Oh. Um I had, okay, I had a coworker of ours. We were, we had these dolls. I worked in Pete's and we had Barbie dolls. And um I uh the doll's hair was nappy. Okay. All right, and her and I were talking about it. This hair is nappy. Somebody went and complained to my manager saying that we were talking and said nappy, and that it was inappropriate for us to say the words nappy. What's wrong with that? And for her, because it because it was too black. Oh. They weren't say that, but that's what it was. They're not saying that. They're saying that, oh, by them saying it in the open, it might offend someone else. You were offended, you know. That was you, not anybody else. Nobody else cares. My manager came and approached us, and I had to let my manager you realize the bias that this has. This person that has just done this, and you're not speaking up and saying anything either. So both of you need to probably sit down and have a conversation and realize that you're being racist and you're getting biased and out of pocket with it, just because you're saying nappy. I said, I have white friends that say talk about their hair being nappy too.

SPEAKER_04 50:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:09

So it gets tangled, it gets snarled and nappy, because but they just associated that. So, like that was one example where you had to make them realize.

SPEAKER_02 50:19

I had uh this one friend that calls me, and I'll never forget this phone call. Um, so he's one of my uh black friends, and he calls me. That this is when George Floyd is going on, right? So he's getting calls from people saying, I am so sorry for the way that I've treated you. And he's just like, I didn't notice anything, but obviously you felt some type of way. And it's just weird because like he's like, What were you thinking that you did to me? You know, like where you felt so bad that you had to apologize. It I don't know, it kind of blew my mind when he spit that back at me. Like, oh, I wonder. They probably thought that they were being kind and open and sweet, but he perceived it as like uh no, like what it right, right.

SPEAKER_01 51:07

Like they thought that they were opening. I had a patient that told me, I just wanted to apologize to you for everything I did to your people.

SPEAKER_00 51:13

But is that disingenuous?

SPEAKER_01 51:15

It wasn't for him. Okay, he truly wholeheartedly felt it, meant it. And I'm like, okay. Um, I though I'm just like, okay, hope you feel better. Like, you know what I mean? I don't know what you want me to say beyond that. He what happened is he had a granddaughter who was mulatto, which lets you know right there, using those terms that he still has some growing to do, uh, who's absolutely beautiful. And he was like, I I she's beautiful, she's wonderful. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_00 51:40

Maybe he had a wake up call and just finally hit. That was his wake-up call. He had to do something.

SPEAKER_01 51:45

Yeah, I hope it did make him feel better. I do, I really do. That's interesting. It just didn't matter to me, but I hope it made him feel better.

SPEAKER_00 51:52

Right. That's an interesting subject to continue talking on. Yeah. Because we had we do have to close off here. Um, thank you, Cassandra, and thank you, Selena, for sharing all your stories.

SPEAKER_03 52:03

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 52:03

You know, um, we invite all our listeners to come on our podcast, discopodcast.com, to our website. Find all the links for the audio and the video um podcast formats that we have and get in touch with us that way. Give us suggestions for other topics or just comment in on on our in our feeds and uh tell us what you think.

SPEAKER_02 52:25

Yeah. We'd love to hear from you. Yeah, thanks for having me, you guys. I really appreciate it. Thank you so much. This was fantastic. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:32

Thank you, everybody. Thanks, everyone.

SPEAKER_02 52:33

See you next time.