The Candyman: An Origin Story

Razors in apple, poison in candy, strangers hurting children.... OH MY! 

Everyone knows that halloween candy can be poisoned and why is it that?? Turns out it is all because of an urban legend ANDDDDD this guy. Its halloween in 1974 and 8 year old Timothy O'Bryan hits the streets for the trick or treat excitement, but what happened when he came home was something never expected that caused waves of fear to overwhelm all parents on halloween night... even today.

Sources:

Associated Press. (1975, June 4). Texas jury sentences man to die in Halloween poisoning. Associated Press Archives.

Associated Press. (1984, March 31). “Candy Man” executed for son’s 1974 Halloween poisoning. Associated Press Archives.

Best, J. (1985). The myth of the Halloween sadist. Society, 22(5), 14–20. https://doi.org/10.1007/BF02695540

Best, J. (1990). Threatened children: Rhetoric and concern about child-victims. University of Chicago Press.

Harris County District Court. (1975). State of Texas v. Ronald Clark O’Bryan, No. 75-CR-____ (Harris County, TX).

Texas Department of Criminal Justice. (1984). Execution report: Ronald Clark O’Bryan. Huntsville, TX.

Time. (1974, November 11). Murder on Halloween. Time Magazine Archives.

United Press International. (1974, November 2). Boy dies after eating Halloween candy. UPI Archives.

United Press International. (1975, June 3). Texas man convicted in Halloween cyanide case. UPI Archives.

Transcript

unknown 0:00

Um I'm gonna talk them out with here.

SPEAKER_00 0:02

You wanna talk about ghosts? Yeah. What do you have to say about ghosts?

SPEAKER_01 0:06

They're invisible and no one can see them. That's not true. They're awesome.

SPEAKER_00 0:10

You think they're cool? I do too. What do you think of ghosts, Daddy?

SPEAKER_03 0:14

I think they're terrible. Why do you want a ghost in the house? You can never tell them to leave.

SPEAKER_01 0:19

So if someone tries to go in the house.

SPEAKER_03 0:21

He turns the AC on cold.

SPEAKER_01 0:22

So if someone tries to go into the house, the ghost can I scare and then they all just run away.

SPEAKER_00 0:28

Oh, so it's like a security system.

unknown 0:32

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 0:32

What far's it.

SPEAKER_03 0:35

What would you do if you saw ghosts in your bed?

SPEAKER_01 0:38

I would eat it.

SPEAKER_00 0:40

Oh, okay. That's actually not a horrible oh, he sneezed. Say God bless you. We haven't introduced like ourselves. Hello, hi, and welcome. Hello, hi. Welcome to Married to Macab.

SPEAKER_03 1:20

I'm Isaac.

SPEAKER_00 1:20

I'm D.

SPEAKER_03 1:21

And welcome to Married to Macab, just like my wife just said.

SPEAKER_00 1:24

Welcome back. And I think I cut Isaac off. So let's get back to it. So let's uh I'm the one.

SPEAKER_03 1:34

I'm just outside. I'm just like background noise.

SPEAKER_00 1:36

You're not. Tell me. Who did they catch?

SPEAKER_03 1:38

Didn't they catch Jack the Ripper? No. They didn't get sorry. It's fine. I was like, what was his name?

SPEAKER_00 1:48

Jack the Ripper. Okay, so yeah, his name was Jack the Ripper, and no, they did not officially catch him.

SPEAKER_03 1:55

They didn't catch him? I thought they said they caught him and he was a barber.

SPEAKER_00 1:59

So there's always been speculation that he is a barber. There is a book that came out from a scholar who's like been obsessed with the case forever, and he presented evidence that there was DNA found on a shawl on one of the victims, and that DNA f matches a distant relative of this guy that they've suspected for a very long time.

SPEAKER_03 2:20

But there's no connection to the rip.

SPEAKER_00 2:24

Yes. But I just think they're afraid to pin a name on it, considering it's been so long and nobody can really defend themselves. I think, and there's no definitive S essay what? There's no definitive DNA evidence or evidence at all. So I think that's why they haven't closed it. But do I think it's that guy? Absolutely. I I really do. But I mean, whatever. So no, they didn't catch him. That's some bullshit. It was very upsetting.

SPEAKER_03 2:54

So he's he's still there.

SPEAKER_00 2:57

No, he's dead.

SPEAKER_03 2:58

He's dead. He's still at large. Like no man. Yes, he's dead. It's been 90 years, dude.

SPEAKER_00 3:04

He's been dead for quite some time. But we don't know who he is, so that's horrible. But yeah, no. You looked really excited. I'm very I know you look very disappointed. Wait a minute. I'm very sorry.

SPEAKER_03 3:14

I got something for you. I didn't do any research, but I had hoyed somebody.

SPEAKER_00 3:19

I hoyed from somebody who hoyed.

SPEAKER_03 3:22

Got the Ripper, right? You're like, no man.

SPEAKER_00 3:25

Oh, bro. Sorry about that. Sorry.

SPEAKER_03 3:27

So all my viewers that got excited.

SPEAKER_00 3:30

With you? With me. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news again. No. Jack the Ripper. Still don't know who Jack the Ripper is.

SPEAKER_03 3:37

He's still out there.

SPEAKER_00 3:38

He's still out there and terrifying. So how was your weekend?

SPEAKER_03 3:43

It was wonderful. It was good. Went to a carnival. Yes. Spent some time with the family.

SPEAKER_00 3:48

We had our children's school, school carnival, which I'm sure a lot of people can relate to.

SPEAKER_03 3:54

Yeah, it was good.

SPEAKER_00 3:56

It was interesting. It's always a good time. It was. And you know what?

SPEAKER_03 3:59

It made me it made me wonder that any murder mystery, like famous murder, happen in any carnival? That's interesting.

SPEAKER_00 4:07

So I fucking hate carnivals. They freak me out. Everybody knows that. Everything about carnivals freaked me out. Not just school carnivals, just carnivals in general. It still creeps me out. The lights, the music, the people, like it just, it's something about a moving carnival makes me really uncomfortable. I don't know. I've never liked it. Even as a child, I used to freaking hate like the youth fair, all that shit. I hated it. So I don't know. It's really weird. You love the food, though. Oh my god, do I love the food? The alcohol. The cheap alcohol. The beer's great. But I don't know of any murders that occurred at a carnival, but I know of a true crime case that ends up with a body at a carnival.

SPEAKER_03 4:54

A body?

SPEAKER_00 4:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:55

What? They got crushed from the rides?

SPEAKER_00 4:57

No, it's not. I know a lot of those. I know a lot of those are tragic. They're horrible. I hate ride. But you know, I know like whenever we go to theme parks, I'm always like, oh my god, you know how many people died on that ride? It's that's that's not even morbid curiosity. That's me just being afraid of mechanics. I'm always like, no, I prefer to understand the statistics because I'm putting my life in the hands of a robot. So no, I'd like to know the statistics.

SPEAKER_03 5:21

I don't want to know who built it. I want to meet the guy.

SPEAKER_00 5:23

Yeah, I want to know how kind of testing, how long has he been around?

SPEAKER_03 5:27

The guy that's checking your ticket is the guy that built it.

SPEAKER_00 5:30

Oh my god. No, can you imagine the guy that took it? Bro, I don't know. It's like I'm just asking questions. So yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:40

So yeah, here we are.

SPEAKER_00 5:41

So yeah, I know a lot. I do know a lot about those, but no, this one was just a body at a carnival. Oh, it was like a small fun. Well, it is it's weird. It's a mannequin.

SPEAKER_03 5:53

A mannequin?

SPEAKER_00 5:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:56

But then it turns out it wasn't a mannequin.

SPEAKER_03 5:58

This real body?

SPEAKER_00 5:59

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 6:00

How do you confuse a real body?

SPEAKER_00 6:02

It's so old that it's like mummified.

SPEAKER_03 6:04

Oh shit.

SPEAKER_00 6:05

But it's like a real body.

SPEAKER_03 6:08

And they just like glanced at it and were like, yeah, that's just Yeah, it has like a red.

SPEAKER_00 6:12

I I should find a picture. It's so scary. The the flesh had turned like a red color. It looks like plastic.

SPEAKER_03 6:18

Did they never find it? And is that why they just it's been there for so long? Or is they just always confuse it as a mannequin and just nobody ever picked it up?

SPEAKER_00 6:25

It had been used as a mannequin for like years.

SPEAKER_03 6:28

It's been used as a mannequin. I thought they just like kind of like neglected it.

SPEAKER_00 6:32

No, it was on a ride. It was part of a ride.

SPEAKER_03 6:36

And you're riding along a mannequin?

SPEAKER_00 6:38

No, it's like hanging in a ride. Like it's one of the mannequins hanging in the ride.

SPEAKER_03 6:44

Wait.

SPEAKER_00 6:45

I've You're like very confused.

SPEAKER_03 6:47

I'm not confused. You're confused.

SPEAKER_00 6:50

I I'm the one who knows the case.

SPEAKER_03 6:51

But you don't know who rides a ride with mannequins. I've never ridden a ride with a mannequin.

SPEAKER_00 6:56

Maybe like the ri the mannequins are like in the car with you. Oh. What are you talking about? I was like, what are you talking about? Like they're hanging like from the ceiling in like a creepy part. Like, do you remember Mr. Toad's wild ride?

unknown 7:08

No.

SPEAKER_03 7:10

Mr. Toad's Wild Ride? No.

SPEAKER_00 7:11

In Disney World.

SPEAKER_03 7:12

What was this? In the 80s?

unknown 7:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:14

I was in New York, maybe. Or in the snow.

SPEAKER_00 7:17

That's true. I was in Disney World. I didn't discover Disney World. So it's it's like it's like carney rides. It's like a carnival ride that's traveling. Like it's it's like in a cheap ride, and it's supposed to be like the one remember that Zachary and his best friend went on.

SPEAKER_03 7:36

Oh, yeah, yeah. The scary one.

SPEAKER_00 7:37

And when they came out, they both looked like they had seen the Seventh Circle of Hell. Like they looked like they were short. Yeah, it was like it's a ride like that. So one of the scenes in there is like cardboard cutouts. Well, in this ride, it was like mannequin limbs and stuff hanging. Turns out one of the mannequins was like a super old, mummified, like Western criminal.

SPEAKER_03 7:59

A criminal?

SPEAKER_00 8:00

Yes. It's like really weird. No, I never. At some point, his body was sold for like a nickel. It's something crazy.

SPEAKER_03 8:08

And was that like a lot back then for what they sold it for?

SPEAKER_00 8:11

I would hope so. One would hope. I don't think so.

SPEAKER_03 8:14

Well, he is a criminal. They're probably like, hey, I'll give you a nickel for this, Louie.

SPEAKER_00 8:17

Yeah, they probably thought it was a fucking mannequin. I don't know. So I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 8:22

We gotta, we have to research that one.

SPEAKER_00 8:24

I'm gonna that's gonna be an episode. I actually can't stand that case. I think it's fucking weird. I don't like that.

SPEAKER_03 8:30

Yeah, I don't I don't really like it. You just telling me about it kind of like upset me. I don't know why.

SPEAKER_00 8:33

It's just yeah, because it's just mistreatment of a corpse at that point. Like it's like he was a criminal, he's not great, but like doesn't mean you gotta like abuse his body.

SPEAKER_03 8:40

It's fucking weird. Well, he was famous, he was on the ride.

SPEAKER_00 8:43

No, I mean his body had a good thing. But nobody knew. But nobody knew. Anyways. So, anywho's. Yeah, let's get to today's case. Today I'm gonna tell you a very upsetting story, and I apologize in advance.

SPEAKER_02 9:01

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 9:02

Okay, I really do. It's not it's not very happy at all. Not that any of our stories are happy.

SPEAKER_03 9:07

I was gonna say uh as opposed to last. This one's like really bad.

SPEAKER_00 9:11

This one's like I tried not to, but I had to get to this one. So today we're gonna talk about someone who tried to pull like a nightmare before Christmas level Halloween cancellation. What? Yes, the Grinch? The Grinch, but like for Halloween. Today we're going to talk about the reason why parents think that Halloween candy is poisoned. So the cultural roots before Halloween. So, like before our modern idea of Halloween. So long before trick-or-treating, and I promise you this is important, long, long before trick-or-treating, American and European folk folklore included warning signs about dangerous outsiders, tainted food, and malicious gifts. This was all like very, very prominent in folklore throughout America, throughout Europe, well before trick-or-treating and like costumes and all that. So these stories primed later generations to believe that Stranger Danger might contaminate treats. Yeah. Like if a stranger gives you candy, it could be a problem. That's kind of like where it started all the way back then. So by the mid-1900s, Halloween shifted from neighborhood parties to children going door to door. And this created new parental anxieties, including trusting unknown neighbors, lack of supervision, and rising crime headlines.

SPEAKER_03 10:43

Yeah, no kidding.

SPEAKER_00 10:44

Even when crime wasn't actually happening. So there were like salacious headlines always around like Halloween, which I believe, because there I feel like there still are. Yeah. So folklorists identify this as the moment that, quote, stranger danger framework became prominent and started attaching itself to Halloween. So where did this come from? This whole like stranger danger phenomena. And in the 1960s, the myth about Halloween exploded after several newspapers in the 1960s published sensational and unverified stories suggesting that strangers were handing out poisoned candy. Also, they claimed apples might contain razor blades, which I had heard this one. You never heard that one? The razor blade, no. Yeah, which I always, even as a kid, was like, how do you not freaking notice like a line in your apple?

SPEAKER_03 11:38

Well, I never got an apple for trick-or-treat.

SPEAKER_00 11:39

I never heard but back in the day, like bobbing for apples was a thing. And there is a horror movie that like mocks. I wanna, I want, I wonder if it was Urban Legend. If not, it's another movie similar to Urban Legend, but that's like something they do to someone. They put razors in an apple. And they have to just bite into it and then just Well, it's not a kid in the movie, it's a person, like an adult. But there's always been a myth that there's razor blades and apples. Whatever. So most of these reports though were not actual incidents, but just warnings or speculation. But they weren't presented that way. They were presented as like a valid threat. So just like today, people were reading it one time and being like, oh my god, this happened like a hundred times. I saw it myself. Like, it just turned into a problem. Right. So a lot of people believed that there were people handing out poison candy. So in the 19 in 1970, New York Times came out with an article. A major torn a turning point came. New York Times ran a widely quoted piece warning parents about quote madmen putting dangerous items into Halloween candy and anecdotal reports of poisoning, none of which were verified. So they just like made a story up, basically. This article effectively nationalized the fear, cementing the idea that this was happening, quote, everywhere everywhere. Exactly everywhere. And then 1974 comes around.

SPEAKER_03 13:12

Where it happened.

SPEAKER_00 13:14

Huh?

SPEAKER_03 13:15

Where it actually happened, or we'll get to that.

SPEAKER_00 13:18

So then we get to 1974, where we are in Pasadena, Texas, and it's the suburbs, and it's October 31st, Halloween night. Timothy O'Brien is an average American eight-year-old with an average American family. And on this average American Halloween night, Timmy and his siblings start getting ready to go trick-or-treating, as most Americans did on that Halloween. Timothy and his little sister Lizbeth plan to go out trick-or-treating with their dad, Ronald O'Brien. Jim Bates and the two Bates children join them. So at around six o'clock, the group got together and the two dads start making their way around the neighborhood. Now, this particular night, it was sadly raining a little bit. So the Halloween mischief and door-to-door action was like a little slower than the years before, but they were trying to make the best of it. So I would assume it wasn't like a storm, it was kind of like drizzly. Yeah. Kind of like the first day of the carnival. Remember? So yeah, it's not horrible, but like it's you know, a little damper. So it was kind of like that. So the group starts moving house to house, sticking on the sidewalk, you know, not the usual running around like psychos, like my favorite part of Halloween. They're going house to house when they arrive to a described particularly creepy house. Yeah. Approximately located on the 2000 block of I shit you not.

SPEAKER_03 14:54

Elm Street.

SPEAKER_00 14:55

Shady Lane. No way. Swear to God. I looked it up. I'm like, this has to be incorrect. It's correct. It is a house on the 2000 block of Shady Lane in Pasadena, Texas. I swear to you. So the porch light of this house is on. So the kids knock and they knock and they kept knocking and no one came to the door. Disappointed, Timmy says, Let's go to the house to that house and runs off to a house next door. The group follows Timmy, but Ronald, the dad, stays behind. A short while later, Ronald catches up with his kids holding five 21-inch pixie sticks. So like those huge, like commercial ones. Yeah. And he handed them out to each one of his kids and one to each bait kid and two additional kids that they had just run into while trick-or-treating. So now what was four kids is six. Two random kids, his neighbor's kids, and his two kids. The night goes on without a hitch. The rounds are done, and the two families head back home. They shower, they start getting ready for bed. Timmy is begging to just have one piece of candy before bed. And he keeps asking and asking, and his dad tells him, Fine, you can pick one piece. Yeah. And Timmy picks the large pixie stick. And he can't get it open because it's sealed with like a large commercial staple. And he's having a really hard time. Like, you know what? What staples I'm talking about? Like those super thick ones that are like fucking impossible to pry. I hate those. Well, the pixie stick is sealed with this. Super weird, but it's also a huge pixie stick. So who knows how they're sealed back then? You know, this is the fucking 70s. We can have a whole episode around the 70s, like in general. So Ronald helps him open it and he runs off to his room, happy as a clam, and starts to eat it. And shortly after he starts to eat it, he tells his dad, This doesn't taste very good. It's kind of bitter. And Ronald said it's probably old and gave the boy some Kool-Aid to wash it down and get the bitterness out of his mouth. But within minutes, he began vomiting.

SPEAKER_02 17:06

Oh no.

SPEAKER_00 17:06

And then he couldn't stop vomiting. And then he vomited some more. And then he started to convulse. And then he lost consciousness. Oh my god. Little Timmy. Yes. So obviously, mom and dad called 911 frantic and panicked. No idea what the hell's happening to their perfectly healthy, happy little boy.

SPEAKER_03 17:28

What about the other kids that had though?

SPEAKER_00 17:29

Well, we'll get to that. So we'll get there, I promise. So he was perfectly healthy trick-or-treating one minute. Literally, having the time of his life. Now he's at Bayshore General Hospital, and they're telling his parents there is nothing they can do. And eight-year-old Timothy is pronounced dead. Are you serious? Yeah, within an hour. Whoa. Yeah. He comes home from trick-or-treating, and in an hour he's in a hospital and he's pronounced dead. Not even like there's nothing I can do, assist him shutting down. Like he's gone. Yeah. The family is devastated, obviously. Oh yeah. It doesn't make sense. This happy family was just running around their neighborhood, laughing, enjoying, in my opinion, the best holiday ever. And a couple hours after their baby boy is gone, like that doesn't even make any sense. Like, how does this even happen? So obviously, the police start investigating immediately because there's a dead child. Believe it or not, there was a time we cared about children. I had to throw that in there. No.

SPEAKER_03 18:32

And here you are, knocking the 70s.

SPEAKER_00 18:33

Oh my god, tell me about it. Anyways, so they question Timothy's parents first, right? They try to get an account of each house that they visited and who they saw. They want every detail about Halloween. Ronald explains the night to them and how Timmy was happy and fine and energetic. And when he gets back to the part where they are home and getting ready for bed, he remembers. He remembered Timmy ate a pixie stick. The pixie stick that Ronald got from that house on Shady Lane. When he's asked about this house, Ronald describes the house as being kind of a turn and a bit uphill. So when you turn the corner to go next door, the house kind of disappears. So he wasn't really sure of the address, but he recalled staying behind because he thought he saw movement in the home. And since trick-or-treating was slow, he didn't want the kids to be disappointed. So he kept knocking and a man opened the door.

SPEAKER_03 19:36

Damn. I can only imagine some like just disgruntled adult that's pissed off at the world. He's hearing knocking at the door and he goes, damn kids.

SPEAKER_00 19:46

I mean it's disgusting. So he says that the man reached his arm out the door with five pixie sticks and said nothing. And Ronald asked when they asked Ronald what did this man look like, he said he didn't see his face. The man was kind of annoyed and stayed behind the door, kind of just pushed the pixie sticks in Ronald's face, like a here, go away now motion that the man vaguely made at him. He says that what he could say is the man was speaking little to no words and possibly had quote hairy arms. Because remember, he says it was nighttime and the house was dark. So he's going off what he thinks he saw. So the piss the pixie stick was test was brought in for testing, and wouldn't you know it?

SPEAKER_04 20:36

What?

SPEAKER_00 20:37

Cyanide.

SPEAKER_04 20:38

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 20:38

Pixie stick had been opened, a bit poured out of it, and then a huge amount of cyanide was poured to the top of the pixie stick and was then sealed with a commercial staple. Meaning that this evil person who did this knew that the first rush of sugar that the child eats will positively be fatal. Wow. It's not even mixed in. Yeah. So Ronald told police that four other kids had pixie sticks, and immediately the police started to try to get to those families but before tragedy happened.

SPEAKER_03 21:09

He said they did.

SPEAKER_00 21:10

One of the kids that randomly received this was still sleeping upstairs when the police knocked on the front door. His mother freaked out and ran upstairs and burst into his room where he was allegedly, you know, because I wasn't there, but multiple reports said that where he was sleeping with the pixie stick in his hand because he couldn't get it open. And when he finally did, it was too clumpy. It didn't look right to him. So he just fell asleep. Thank God. Because what right? And all the other kids, by the way, to answer your question, they had not opened it either.

unknown 21:48

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 21:49

Thank God. Including Timmy's little sister Lizbeth. Thank God. Because she was still in the house too. She's in the same house. So she didn't, the Bates kids didn't, and the other random kids. Didn't thank God. But unfortunately, Timmy did and he did pass away. So as I said, others thankfully had been told no candy before bed and were waiting to ransack their stash in the morning. So sadly, but also thankfully, only Timothy passed away as the other children just hadn't had a chance to get there yet. But if they had, there would surely be at least five casualties. Now police are on this. They are on this. They go straight to the creepy house on Shady Lane and they track down the resident. And it is a man with hair arms who let me see her arms, sir. I know, right? Can you imagine how that conversation went? But sir, may I see your arms, please? It's like, excuse me? Do you have a warrant for my arms? Like, what the hell? So a man who was an air traffic controller. So statistically sad individuals with a high stress rate. But guess what? I wonder why. There's a lot of theories. It really does. It has a very, very side, a very, very high stress rate. And very statistically depressed people. It's very sad. But guess what? He worked on Halloween until about 11 p.m. Remember, this happened around 6. So multiple coworkers verify his alibi. He was in the traffic control tower all night as trick-or-treating happened between 6 and 9.

SPEAKER_03 23:31

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 23:32

He lives alone. Nobody was home.

SPEAKER_03 23:35

I was gonna say, maybe a relative?

SPEAKER_00 23:36

No, nobody was home. No one with hairy arms reached out of that door on Shady Lane and handed a poison pixie stick out. So who did it? What do we know about the cast of characters so far? Let's go through them. It was surely a madman, right?

SPEAKER_03 23:54

It could have been the dad.

SPEAKER_00 23:55

Maybe. Certainly not the candyman legend. Was there really a crazy person out here poisoning baby children? The neighbor? Okay, but why? The kid's mom. We haven't heard much about her. But like you said, what about the dad?

SPEAKER_03 24:12

What about the pops?

SPEAKER_00 24:13

Ronald. Let's talk a little bit about Ronald. Old Ronald McDonald O'Brien is a 30-year-old dad. His name is Ronald. No, I made that up. But his name is Ronald O'Brien. Sorry. Disclaimer, I made that up. So he's a 30-year-old dad. He's an optician and a part-time church deacon.

unknown 24:36

Shit.

SPEAKER_00 24:37

He's the pillar of the family and a hard worker and a provider. So it can't be him. Except nobody knows, including his wife, that Ronald is also drowning in debt. Okay. Drowning. So let's look a little deeper at this loving and dedicated husband and father. In 1974, Ronald's financial life was about as stable as Jenga. It was a fucking disaster. And he was over$100,000 in debt in 1974.

SPEAKER_02 25:11

My God.

SPEAKER_00 25:11

With which with the average inflation rate would roughly translate to how much do you think?

SPEAKER_03 25:17

100 grand would be.

SPEAKER_00 25:18

100 grand and 74.

SPEAKER_03 25:20

I would say maybe 240. 230?

SPEAKER_00 25:24

No.

SPEAKER_03 25:26

300? No. 10 million? No, no, no.

SPEAKER_00 25:31

$657,448.28. It's not bad. It's a law degree. I mean, you're not too far off on. No, it's a it's it's a couple law degrees. It's about one of the things it's like, yeah, it's like two law degrees, but still.

SPEAKER_03 25:49

You're not from Shady Avenue or Shady Lane. Stupid, don't do it.

SPEAKER_00 25:52

Anyways, anywho's. So he had been fired from multiple jobs, seemingly unable to stay in one place for very long, mostly due to poor performance and overall shady behavior.

unknown 26:09

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 26:10

Homie was a creep. So is destiny. It's destiny. So what does he do? Get a side job that pays more? Go on payment plans? Ask his wife to get a part-time job, maybe a loan. No, no, no. He takes out multiple life insurance policies on his eight-year-old son.

unknown 26:29

Oh my God.

SPEAKER_00 26:30

The policies equal roughly$60,000 in payouts.

SPEAKER_02 26:34

What? That's not gonna cover it, dude. Doesn't even cover his debt. I know. Doesn't cover the cyanide. Doesn't even cover the cine.

SPEAKER_00 26:42

It's that's how ridiculous he is. He's not even he hasn't thought it. This is obviously a fucking disgusting, evil, horrible plan. But even to like think that through, it's like you didn't even think that through. Like what what?$60,000. Clearly, but I mean this is addition. I mean, come on. Come on. You're missing like a whole zero.

SPEAKER_03 27:05

So well, he's killing his son. He's obviously yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:09

So he's about 40k behind still. So I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 27:13

He has 60.

SPEAKER_00 27:14

Remember, he's a hundred thousand in debt.

SPEAKER_03 27:16

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 27:16

It translates to six hundred thousand. All right, now but now it's still not even covering the debt, it still leaves him with 40k in debt.

SPEAKER_04 27:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:25

It's like, what are you what? So whatever. So they equal about 60,000 in payouts. And not even 24 hours after poor Timothy has passed away, Daddy was on the phone making a claim to the life insurance company.

SPEAKER_03 27:42

Fucking idiot.

SPEAKER_00 27:43

That was like, that's fucking weird, and told the cops because duh.

SPEAKER_03 27:47

He's like, hold on, officer, I'm on the phone making a claim.

SPEAKER_00 27:50

Bro. Less than 24 hours, that body was still in the hospital.

SPEAKER_03 27:55

That's so disgusting.

SPEAKER_00 27:56

Isn't that horrible? Like, well, I mean, that's the least of our fucking worries with this guy. I mean, really. But I mean, a word to the wise, not that I'm giving anyone advice, but the life insurance thing never works. Like, turn on Dateline. Yeah, right? When is it ever fucking worked out for anybody? Like, what the fuck are you doing? So, whatever. Homeboy.

SPEAKER_03 28:17

When did Dateline come out? Find that out. But I'm just saying, we're talking 70s.

SPEAKER_00 28:21

I guess this was where Dateline got a lot of materials. It could be you're right. You're right. I am wrong. Okay. It happens. It happens.

SPEAKER_04 28:30

See?

SPEAKER_00 28:31

So, also, no big deal. At one of the many jobs he had, he did maybe ask some co-workers if they know anything about poison.

SPEAKER_03 28:43

He's like, hey, you know about poison?

SPEAKER_00 28:45

Particularly. Particularly. How much cyanide do you think you'd need to kill someone? Like normal lunch break chit chat.

SPEAKER_03 29:00

That's what he's asking. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:02

He would he asked a couple people. Like, why would they know though? Like, why would you ask?

SPEAKER_03 29:08

Yeah, I know, but.

SPEAKER_00 29:09

Like, I could tell you how much cyanide kills people because I research shit like this for things like this, but not like because I know. Like, I wouldn't. And if somebody asked me that, I don't think I'd share that information. I'd be like, I don't know. You should Google that so there's a record. Like, that's what I would say.

SPEAKER_03 29:25

You couldn't Google, so it's unfortunate.

SPEAKER_00 29:29

Because I don't know the answer to that. But yeah. That's what he would ask people. Like, uh like the water cooler. Like, hey, so how do you anything about cyanai? Like, I heard it like can kill a grown adult. How much do you think it takes? So this was part of the shady behavior. Like, co-workers didn't like him. They thought he was fucking weird. And then you tell me things like this, and I'm like, well, of course they thought he was weird. He was fucking weird. Like, okay. So, whatever. He also had recently tried to purchase cyanide from a chemical supply store, but he was denied because he did not have the proper credentials to purchase the cyanide.

SPEAKER_03 30:08

What credentials do you need?

SPEAKER_00 30:10

I mean, I'm assuming if you're going to a chemical supply store, I'm sure they're asking for some type of licensing as to why. Back, I know in the 70s I believed, I believe they used cyanide as rat poisoning. I could be wrong, but I know that it was accessible. I know that was a problem. Like you could order cyanide at some point. But then like they realized it was very easy to kill someone with it. So now it's not easy and it hasn't been for a long time. So I don't know. In 74, I would assume you'd have to show some type of licensing as to why you'd need a were you an exterminator? Were you a chemist? Like something. He obviously didn't have anything. He was a what the fuck was he? An opt-optician. He didn't need cyanide. So they told him he's an optician.

SPEAKER_03 30:51

He's an optician. He likes fits on contact lenses and glasses.

SPEAKER_00 30:55

I guess. Is that what opticians do?

SPEAKER_03 30:59

Yeah, they're not the I don't think they're the No, they're not optometrists. Yeah, they're not the optometrist.

SPEAKER_00 31:03

So I think, yeah, I think he works with lenses. I don't know. I didn't look into this fucking loser. Okay. He's horrible. So, like I didn't look into them that much.

unknown 31:11

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 31:12

Whatever job it was, he couldn't fucking hold it. We know that. So with that, five days after Halloween, police arrest daddy Ronald Clark O'Brien. His middle name is Clark. I did not make that up. And of course, he said he was innocent and the mess went to trial. And that's where bombshell after bombshell kept dropping. And the trial revealed what I had just mentioned, mentioned, but in greater detail, of course. So they obviously presented evidence of the insurance policies. And it hit hard because then the motive became undeniable. Yeah. You know, the prosecution paid painted out the photo. You know, they introduced evidence showing that not only had he taken out multiple life insurances, he had increased the coverage shortly before Halloween. He was over$100,000 in debt, and he had contacted the insurance company the day after Timothy's death. The timeline was laid out clearly in court. Policy increases, Halloween, death, immediate inquiry about payout, reframe the case from tragic accident to calculated financial plot in like two seconds. And the jury followed it. Well, yeah, then 24 hours. Within 24 hours was an eight-year-old son.

SPEAKER_03 32:33

What a piece of shit.

SPEAKER_00 32:34

That he killed, by the way. Like didn't even just like die in an accident and you're freaking out because how are you gonna pay for the funeral?

SPEAKER_03 32:40

Because that happens. Yeah, because you know the kid like trusts you and you're just handing it. Oh, of course. But you're not gonna What's that great question?

SPEAKER_02 32:47

Anything you give him?

SPEAKER_03 32:48

Here's the problem. So I obviously the problem is handing it to your son, but then he hands it to the other four kids that have absolutely no benefit to him that he hurts.

SPEAKER_00 32:57

They were collateral damage in case he got caught. Right, he can say, Why would I kill my neighbor's kids? Collateral damage. So not only was his child disposable, so were random children.

SPEAKER_03 33:09

That sucked.

SPEAKER_00 33:10

It's pure evil. There's no way around it. Like the man's pure evil. So observers noted visible reactions from the jury as the dates were read out loud and in sequence. This showed them that it wasn't just about money, it was also about the timing.

SPEAKER_04 33:27

What is this?

SPEAKER_00 33:30

I wish we had a visual medium. We really gotta get on that.

SPEAKER_03 33:34

I was measuring the microphone and it it came out wrong.

SPEAKER_00 33:37

Yeah, I'm not sure what's happening with you today. I was like, what is happening over there? Like, don't get any ideas. That's freaking weird. But don't worry, we're working on the visual component of the situation. We'll keep you guys apprised. We are we are working on it. It's trickier than it sounds. I'll just say that. So the cyanide evidence, as we said, and what did it prove? It proved viable premeditation. The medical examiner and forensic experts both testified that the pixie sticks contained potassium cyanide. As you mentioned, all the pixie sticks did.

SPEAKER_01 34:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:13

The amount inside of Timothy's straw was far beyond the lethal dose. That's just one straw. The cyanide had been carefully poured into the top of the pixie stick, and the candy was resealed with a commercial staple. One key detail is that the poison was concentrated at the top so that the first swallow would deliver a fatal dose, which we talked about. The detail made the act feel very methodical, very thought out. The prosecution emphasized that this required serious preparation and it was not just a random tampering. Again, very clear to the jury. The third bombshell that they taught that gave more detail on was the mystery man collapse. Why it hit hard. It destroyed O'Brien's credibility from the beginning. So O'Brien told police that the man had opened the door slightly and handed him the pixie sticks, but the owner testified in court that not only was an air tracker, air traffic controller, he was working that night, and multiple people testified that he was working until 11 p.m. Prosecution dismantled the theory in front of the jury. The house was empty, there was no man, there was no door opening, there was only Ronald. And that moment shifted the case from a possibility to a complete fabrication.

SPEAKER_04 35:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:34

So again, the coworkers testified that he had asked about cyanide.

SPEAKER_03 35:39

He asked about it, right?

SPEAKER_00 35:40

What it showed the jury. It showed them that he had planned it well before Halloween. Multiple coworkers took the stand and testified testified that O'Brien had asked A, how much cyanide do you think it would take to kill someone? B asked how it tasted. C asked if they knew where he could buy it. Come on. Hey, do you know what cyanide tastes like? Do you know where I could buy some?

SPEAKER_03 36:06

It's like, why? Do you have a rat problem?

SPEAKER_00 36:08

Why would I have tasted it? Like, what? I mean, clearly, if he's asking how much does it take to kill you and have you tasted it, he doesn't know that like a pinhead can kill you, but like, okay. So clearly. So a chemical supply employee, as we mentioned, testified that O'Brien had tried to purchase cyanide weeks before Halloween, but he refused him. The timing again mattered. The poison questions came before Halloween. The insurance increase came before Halloween. The death came on Halloween. The narrative of premeditation became undeniable and very clear. And thankfully, there were also attempted murder charges for the children you had mentioned and why those counts hit home and why they hit the juries hard. Because it showed on paper that he had risked the lives of other children, which some people forget and you had brought up. Not only did we lose one boy, but you're saying that this man collaterally like put up four other children for what? So the prosecution emphasized that O'Brien did not just poison his son Timothy. He gave identical poison sticks to four other children. One child had difficulty getting the candy out because it had clumped and that likely had saved their life. Prosecutors argued that this was deliberate staging. He needed multiple victims to make it look like a random attack. That meant that he knowingly risked kids and killing more children. This widened the moral impact of the crime in the courtroom. This showed complete disregard for human life. Like not only did he not give a shit about his own child.

SPEAKER_03 37:56

Yeah, it wasn't impulsive. It was premeditated and methodical.

SPEAKER_00 38:00

Beyond being methodical, it was pure evil. He had no concern or interest for human life, child human life, including his son. He was willing for four other children to die for him not to get arrested and to get 60k to help him pay off his hundred thousand, even though he can't even hold a job. Like, what was that gonna I I don't know. The whole thing is like, what the fuck are you talking about? So yeah, it's the jury was like, why are we still talking?

SPEAKER_03 38:32

So send them to fucking prison already.

SPEAKER_00 38:34

Yeah, yeah. The jury deliberated and it showed how overwhelming the evidence was because after weeks of testimony, the jury deliberated for less than one hour.

SPEAKER_02 38:45

It shouldn't even have gotten that long.

SPEAKER_00 38:47

I know. Well, less than one hour could be anything from one minute to an hour. So like people were it was it was like a news headline, like how overwhelming the evidence was of like how fast this jury came back with a guilty verdict.

SPEAKER_03 39:00

Could you imagine his like public defender looking at him and he's like, listen, you're fried.

SPEAKER_00 39:05

Listen, I know. I can't, I I have so much respect for public defenders because I could never, I could never, and I remember I spent that summer in criminal court with with um Don't mention any names. No, I know, with my I was gonna say with my friends. Yeah. And we we like interned at the criminal courthouse. And oh my god, like I could never, so God bless them, and they're doing the Lord's work and like good for them. And but I could never, so exactly, like, what do you what do you mean I have to defend this guy? Like, with what? Are you kidding me? So, yes, he was found guilty, thank God, of the premeditated murder of his son and the attempted premeditated murders of the four other children. His poor son, his poor baby boy. I know, and his poor living daughter. Yeah, I know living daughter. Can you imagine the survivor guilt? Like, poor baby for sure has survivor guilt. Yeah. And was probably only spared because she's younger. Like he targeted Timothy and let her and didn't target her, but she was younger and a girl. So, you know, who knows?

SPEAKER_03 40:09

Well, he was 40k short. I mean, I'm sure she could have. I'm sure she I'm sure she was thought of.

SPEAKER_00 40:14

Yeah, I'm sure, I'm sure that he just didn't get to it. I'm sure it doesn't sound like he knew a lot about cyanide. And all the reports I read sounds like he was shocked when Timothy collapsed and started convulsing. Like, I don't think he realized it was gonna happen that fast. So he probably had every intention of making sure his daughter ate it before bed. Also, he thought they were gonna die in their sleep, probably. He probably thought they just wouldn't wake up, and then the next day the Bates neighbor would scream and cry that his son didn't wake up and like, oh no, it was an attack. Like, horrible. Like, talk about pure, pure evil.

SPEAKER_03 40:50

We are canceling Halloween.

SPEAKER_00 40:52

Well, why do you think I always throw out the candy? I always throw out the candy. Remember, I used to take it to work? Yeah, now I just throw it away.

SPEAKER_03 40:58

I just hand it off to another kid that like walks.

SPEAKER_00 41:00

No, I know you always do, but they always bring home candy because now they're older. So I throw it away and I replace it with the candy I buy. You know that. I always buy the candy and I I hoard it and then I just dump it and not me. You eat it. I know. I know you're gonna get cyanide poisoning. God forbid. So you're gonna get cyanide poisoning. You are going to get cyanide. Anyways, so it showed how fucking overwhelming this evidence was, right? This less than a freaking hour. That speed sent a message so clear that they believed the evidence and they convicted him of capital murder and four counts of attempted murder. So capital murder means that death penalty. He can get the death penalty. So the sentencing phase. And in Texas at the time, capital murder made O'Brien eligible for, like you said, the death penalty. And the prosecution argued that the crime was carefully calculated and committed for a financial gain. The victim was a child, and it involved deliberate poisoning. And I don't know if you remember when we talked about it way back in episode one.

SPEAKER_03 42:08

Most likely not, but go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 42:09

Remember, I told you about aggravating factors, the difference between like first-degree murder and capital murder, and it's like murder during a felony is uh, you know, automatically in some states. Like that is what I'm talking about here. So these are factors that Texas would use at the time to determine if your crime was eligible for the death penalty. One of the factors is the victim is a protected class, which is elderly, children, disabled, things like that, particularly children and elderly. That's why like elderly abuse gets like pretty serious sentencing. Well, I don't know. Like that's like if you abuse an adult, if you abuse an elder.

SPEAKER_03 42:46

If you beat up an old guy, you get a larger sentence. Honestly, a longer sensitive than if you were to fight a guy.

SPEAKER_00 42:53

Pretty much. If you fight like a 40-year-old, that makes sense, you're fine. But like if you punch a 60-year-old and they want to go after you for elderly abuse, you can get a pretty bad sentence because it's a protected class. So whatever. Back in the day.

SPEAKER_03 43:04

So you see see you can't beat me up.

SPEAKER_00 43:07

Me?

SPEAKER_03 43:08

I'm a protected class.

SPEAKER_00 43:09

No, you're not elderly. You're a year older than me. Relax. I could beat you up as much as I want.

SPEAKER_03 43:16

I could still beat you up.

SPEAKER_00 43:17

I could still beat you up. So in Texas at the time, like I said, so it made him eligible. And I mean, if you ask me, thankfully, the jury sentenced him to death. Even after conviction, O'Brien maintained that he did not poison the candy and that a stranger was responsible. He never confessed. And that obviously kept this story going and really added to the candyman myth.

SPEAKER_04 43:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:50

Right? That the candy is poisoned. And he maintained his innocence and he refused to admit it all the way up until when he was put to death by lethal injection. On March 31st, on March 31st, 1984, after being convicted of murdering his eight-year-old son and poisoning candy with cyanide, he became the infamous murderer and often referred to as the Candyman murder. Really? And tied to the fears around tampered Halloween treats and led to the urban legends we still tell today.

SPEAKER_03 44:25

Has nothing to do with a mirror and saying his name five times.

SPEAKER_00 44:28

No, that's another myth. Candyman. You know that myth. That's a good one. But no.

unknown 44:34

Sorry.

SPEAKER_00 44:35

Every fucking time. Every time. So yeah, isn't that crazy? So that's where the story of poison candy comes from.

SPEAKER_03 44:45

So that's why we check the candy.

SPEAKER_00 44:46

So well, I don't check shit. That's why I throw away candy.

SPEAKER_03 44:48

But some of that candy you throw away is good stuff.

SPEAKER_00 44:52

I'm sure none of it is poisoned. I'm sure none of it is poisoned. Well, funny enough.

SPEAKER_03 44:57

If he sealed it profess how did he seal it professionally?

SPEAKER_00 44:59

He didn't seal it professionally. He used a commercial staple. He just fucking stapled it with a massive staple. It's ridiculous.

SPEAKER_03 45:07

And he goes here?

SPEAKER_00 45:08

Yeah. But they're kids. Nine years old.

SPEAKER_03 45:12

But as an adult, you got it, and you see a like you see it was tampered with and you still hand it to the kids. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:18

But it's him. Right. He handed it to the kids. The other ones didn't have it. You know what I mean? Like they it was the parents said no. Yeah. Hadn't looked at it yet.

SPEAKER_02 45:26

Of course.

SPEAKER_00 45:26

Isn't that crazy? It's crazy. The whole thing's fucking crazy. But just in case you were wondering, no, there's never been a confirmed, verified case where Halloween candy is poisoned. Besides this one.

SPEAKER_03 45:43

Besides this one? Yeah. There's no way. Never.

SPEAKER_00 45:46

Random Halloween poisoning?

SPEAKER_03 45:48

No. I can remember as a kid, the news would remind parents to check the kids' parents and the bags.

SPEAKER_00 45:56

Yes. Like the stories I told you at the beginning, right?

SPEAKER_03 45:58

That like So you're saying that they don't even know this story.

SPEAKER_00 46:01

No, they know this story. Obviously, this story is fucking national news. Everybody knows well, not everybody knows this story, but like this is where it kind of like solidified it. But remember at the beginning of the story, I was telling you it's part of folklore for hundreds, like hundreds of years, like hundreds of years. Well, I mean, I'm sure if you go back and like, you know, where where does Halloween like originate? Probably Wiccan. You know, it's I'm sure if you go back in like history of like how they used to celebrate Halloween, it's I'm sure there's some weird shit there. Like, come on, like, let's be real. So yeah. I don't know, but whatever. So yeah, that's where, you know, that's where like and like it had myths attached to it, and like a lot of them carry.

SPEAKER_03 46:42

And so, but no ghosts came out of this one, right?

SPEAKER_00 46:46

No, no ghosts, just tragedy.

SPEAKER_03 46:51

Yeah, that's horrible.

SPEAKER_00 46:52

So thanks. Poor Timmy. Poor Timmy. So rest in peace, Timmy. Rest in peace, Timmy. Don't rest in peace, Ronald Clark O'Brien. I hope you're doing horribly in hell.

SPEAKER_02 47:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:03

I hope you're really suffering. And tune in next time, where I think this might be promising the moon. But tune in next time for a two-parter. A very special episode that requires two episodes. And you'll know why when we start the next one.

SPEAKER_03 47:25

Nice.

SPEAKER_00 47:26

Right?

SPEAKER_03 47:26

I call it a murder menage.

SPEAKER_00 47:30

That would be three.

SPEAKER_03 47:32

That'll be oh.

SPEAKER_00 47:34

I think this would be a murder monogamy.

SPEAKER_03 47:37

A murder monogamy.

SPEAKER_00 47:38

Murder monogamy would be a two-parter. And a three parter would be murderage à toi.

SPEAKER_03 47:44

Wow. Well, we're looking forward to that, baby. So we'll look forward to that.

SPEAKER_00 47:48

So the murder monogamy will be hopefully the next episode. We'll see. But there is a two parter on the way and it should be fun. Okay. So see you next time. Bye.

SPEAKER_03 47:58

Bye, guys.