Holding it all Together (Mostly!) with Mom Therapist Brittany Gallagher Ep 24

MomsWork Podcast Show Notes

Episode Title: Holding it All Together (Mostly!) with Mom Therapist Brittany Gallagher

Episode Summary:
This episode is a special one — created as a reminder (and a bit of a gift) for moms everywhere. In the days following Mother’s Day, Kristin sits down with therapist and mom Brittany Gallagher, founder of Mom Chat Therapy, to talk honestly about the emotional weight so many mothers carry.

From the invisible “mental load” to anxiety, burnout, and even “mom rage,” this conversation sheds light on what’s really going on beneath the surface — and why so many moms feel like they can never fully turn their brains off.

Brittany shares both professional insight and personal experience, helping moms better understand their thoughts, emotions, and triggers — while also offering practical, realistic tools for navigating hard moments and caring for themselves along the way.

If you’ve ever felt overwhelmed, overstimulated, or like you’re constantly falling short, this episode will remind you: you are not alone — and you are doing more than enough.

What We Talk About:

•  What the mental load of motherhood really is — and why it feels so heavy 
•  How anxiety commonly shows up in motherhood 
•  The difference between a hard day and true burnout 
•  What’s happening mentally and physically when you’re burned out 
•  Understanding “mom rage” and what’s underneath those intense moments 
•  Tools to use when you feel triggered or overwhelmed 
•  How to repair after tough parenting moments (with your kids and yourself) 
•  Whether moms have always felt this way — or if modern motherhood is different 
•  Why prioritizing yourself feels so hard 
•  What realistic self-care actually looks like for busy moms 
•  Where to start if you’re feeling constantly overwhelmed 

About Our Guest:

Brittany Gallagher is a therapist, mom, and the founder of Mom Chat Therapy in New Jersey. She specializes in supporting mothers navigating the mental load, burnout, and emotional challenges of motherhood.

Connect with Brittany:

•  Website: themomchattherapy.com 
•  Instagram: @the.momchat 
•  Facebook: The Mom Chat Therapy and Wellness 

Mentioned in the episode:

Mom Rage: The Everyday Crisis of Modern Motherhood by Minna Dubin

https://www.minnadubin.com/book 

A Reminder for Moms Listening:

You don’t have to do it all.
You don’t have to do it perfectly.
And you are not alone.

Love This Episode?

Be sure to follow, rate, and review MomsWork Podcast on your favorite platform, and share this episode with a fellow mom who might need it.

Follow along on Instagram and Facebook: @momsworkpodcast

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:14

Welcome to the Mom's Work Podcast, where career meets motherhood and real life happens in between. Hi, I'm Kristen Weinrich, a working mom navigating the chaos, the career, the cooking, and yes, the crying. Each week we get real with moms making it work from classrooms to boardrooms and everything in between. No fluff, no judgment, just honest talk, helpful hints, and the support we all need. Whether you're listening while commuting, catching a break, or buried in laundry, you're in the right place. Welcome. You belong here. Welcome back to Mom's Work. I'm your host, Kristen Weinrich, mom of two, teacher, and someone who knows just how easy it is for moms to put themselves last while trying to hold everything else together. So today's episode is a little different and very intentional. With Mother's Day just a couple of days ago, I wanted to create something that feels less like another thing on your to-do list and more like a gift from me to you. A conversation that reminds moms that they are seen, supported, and not alone in the weight that they carry. Joining me today is Brittany Gallagher, therapist, mom, and founder of Mom Chat Therapy in New Jersey. You can find her at the momchattherapy.com at the mom dot mom sorry at the dot mom chat on Instagram and the mom chat therapy and wellness on Facebook. And I will link all of those in the show notes. Brittany works with moms navigating the mental load, burnout, and emotional demands of motherhood. And today she's here to help us navigate what it really means to care for ourselves while caring for everyone else. Brittany, I'm so glad that you're here. I'm really excited for this conversation. And I'd love for you to introduce yourself to our listeners. Tell us about your work, your family, and what led you to create mom chat therapy.

SPEAKER_02 1:53

Hi, Kristen. Thanks so much for having me. As you so kindly introduced me, my name is Brittany. I am a licensed therapist and practice in primarily New Jersey, but I also am licensed to practice in New York and Florida. And I launched the mom chat just over, or just actually just under a year ago. So this summer will be my one-year anniversary. But I've been working in the mental health field for, you know, just over 15 years. And actually the majority of my working history has been in public education and working with children and adolescents with social, emotional, and learning challenges, which really, as I reflect back on, you know, my career has led me to where I am today because so much of my work with children, of course, as we know, includes the parents and oftentimes the mom. Um, and so after my time working in public education, I shifted back into private practice work, which I had also done, you know, which feels like a lifetime ago, but that just needed four kids. Right. Um and um really saw and felt there was such a need for um work in maternal mental health for moms who are whether they're just transitioning into motherhood or the transition back to work, whatever that might look like for them, and really helping to support women through that whole process outside of work. I am a mom, I have three children, ages ranging. I'm in birthday season right now, so I'm not gonna. So you gotta range older. So I have an eight-year-old son, a six-year-old son, and a three-year-old daughter. Nice. And uh I live in New Jersey, born and raised, although I did go to school in Pennsylvania.

SPEAKER_01 3:42

Um Scranton, Pennsylvania. There you go.

SPEAKER_02 3:45

Yeah. Um, yeah, I just I'm so passionate and and love the work that I do. And outside of work, um, things that I love, I love to move my body. I'm a two-time marathon runner. Um with family and friends, um, and you know, just all the good stuff. I I think mostly at this stage of my life, you can find me on the sidelines of a sporting event.

SPEAKER_00 4:06

Yeah, yeah. I feel that. And thank you for sharing that. Um, and now we know you a little bit more. I have a couple, just a couple more specific questions. And you kind of sort of, well, very well answered the next question. But if you have anything extra to say, my my other question for you is what inspired you? Was there like one thing that you sort of were like, hey, I think maybe moms need a person? Like when what inspired you to focus on your work specifically um with moms?

SPEAKER_02 4:40

Yeah, I that's a great question. I do, I do have that sort of aha moment when I was pregnant with my third child. One of my oldest and dearest um friends was pregnant with her first and actually had her daughter just a couple weeks ahead of me. Okay. And she ended up experiencing some pretty significant and intense postpartum depression and anxiety. And so she really allowed me to sort of be on the front lines with her. And while I was sort of in the beginning stages of exploring perinatal mental health, being there with her through that, really seeing the impact that it not certainly only had on her individually, but on her partner, her family. It was just so apparent to me that there was just such a need for extra support in this area, and one that's not really talked about um a ton. For sure. So it was one of those moments where I was like, okay, yes, this is this is where I need to be.

SPEAKER_00 5:34

And I I feel like when um a we have a mutual friend and she had mentioned you to me, and I thought, wow, you know, you you hear of therapists, and but the fact that you focus primarily on mothers and motherhood, I think is so important because, like you said, you know, there, I feel like it's becoming more of a thing that people are talking about. I mean, I I work at a school with all women, and so, you know, we have different levels of teachers with grown children, teachers with teenagers, teachers with elementary school teachers, and then the teachers who are becoming moms. And, you know, I feel like we're all sort of a support group for each other, but no one's a professional in that way. And it's so nice to have somebody to even just be like, hey, did this ever happen to you, or like this is normal, or you know, so I feel like your work is so important and so needed. Um, and and in terms of that, I feel like there's a very universal thing, moms, dads, whatever, for becoming a parent. There are so many things you can you can talk about to anybody about parenthood, and they're like, Yep, been there, done that. What are the common themes that you see come up um for moms in your practice? What are the, you know, kind of the mo the biggest reasons that they come to see you?

SPEAKER_02 6:43

Oh well, yeah, I think number one is what I always hear, and I think a lot of us hear is, oh my God, why the heck did no one tell me?

SPEAKER_00 6:50

Like I always say kiddingly, look thought this was a good idea. Like, you know, we all want to be moms. And we're like, oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_02 6:56

There's so many. And like so many things in life, you know, you don't truly understand it until you're in it, right? And so I think there are lots of opportunities for us to be a little bit more open and honest and vulnerable about what our motherhood or parenting experience is like. However, there's always the caveat of you're just never gonna quite get it until you know you're up at two in the morning and doing it. Um aside from that, I think, you know, some of the biggest and typically most common things that I hear from women and mothers is, you know, really just, you know, the the overwhelm of the transition, struggling with anxiety. And and and oftentimes women who are very, you know, they're high achieving, they're goal-oriented, they're very successful, you know, these are the type of women that I tend to work with. And then motherhood kind of slaps them in the face a little bit for sure. Because a lot of the tools and strategies that they've used throughout their life to be that way no longer work. It means nothing. Your kids don't care. Yes, yes, and so that's really challenging. There's this moment of like, oh wow, I I need to re-think all of this. How am I going to approach all of this? Never mind the hormones and you know the the changes to our body and brain that we're going through. You know, mastrescence is one of the aside from puberty, but in a shorter period of time, one of the biggest changes. And that's the the process of becoming a mother, correct? Correct, correct. And it's just one of the biggest changes to the body and the and the brain that you can go through in such a small short period of time. And it's just a very overwhelming experience. Um, you know, a lot of times I talk with moms about the mental load, feeling overwhelmed, trying to balance it all. Social media comes into play a lot.

SPEAKER_00 8:47

Everybody's perfect life that isn't actually perfect, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:52

A lot of that. Um, and you know, there's always, I think, the unspoken shifts in relationships, whether it's with a spouse, whether it's with your own parents, siblings, friends, co-workers, the transition back to work or to not working and outside of the home, I should say, because we know moms are working. They're working. Um, they're working, but you know, all of those things, you know, it's not just about bringing baby home and swaddles and how we're feeding baby and how baby is sleeping, right? There's so much more to it.

SPEAKER_00 9:23

It's such a thing. I remember there's a woman who um had a classroom next to me and she was having a baby. And one time, like she was having a baby in June, and that spring I went into her and I was like, I have to say something to you. And she was like, Okay. I was like, Becoming a mother is a wonderful thing. Like we went through this whole thing and I said, But I want you to know that like you can always text me, you can always text any of us. And I said, It's like a real scene, to say it nicely. I was like, it's a real scene, and like you're gonna cry and you're gonna be nervous and you're gonna this, and like, and I want you to know like it's all normal and we've all been there, and there's nothing to be, you know, ashamed of, or like it, you know, this whole thing. And I I after she had her baby, I texted her a few times that summer, whatever. When she came back to work, she was like, You were right. And I'm like, I mean, and I like I have no other information other than any other mother, but I was like, I don't know that I knew what a like, for lack of a better term, a scene it was to become a mother. And I always like it was like, oh, I'm a teacher. I used to babysit, I'll be fine. And no, that's not, that is not, you know, so it really, it really is something, and it's wonderful, but it really kind of rocks your world for sure.

SPEAKER_02 10:33

It does, it does, and even in that experience, right, to be able to provide that support to another new mother to just say, like, hey, I'm just gonna try to keep it real with you for a second and just know I'm here, you know, just know I'm here, there's other people that are here for you. And that alone, you know, can really have such an impact and make a difference in someone's experience, right?

SPEAKER_00 10:54

Because you might think, oh, nobody, everybody else looks so great doing this, and it's so easy. Um, and this sort of seems obvious, but how has becoming or being a mom yourself shaped the way that you approach your work in that you've been there?

SPEAKER_02 11:09

Absolutely. You know, it's one of those things that whether I have a I'm talking to a prospective client or you know, a client that I work with, I always talk about my own experience. I'm not I'm not a blank slate therapist, I'll say. So, you know, I always talk about my own experiences in motherhood, whether it's, you know, oh oh I loved that bottle, you know, or if it's a brown. Yeah, yeah, something a little bit more personal. I mean, I also had my own experience. I had a COVID baby, you know, March or I'm sorry, May of 2020. So, you know, right in the the height of it. And I experienced my own postpartum anxiety, you know, when I reflect back. It took me a while to recognize that, but just having some different experiences in my own postpartum, going through it a couple of times. Um, I can shed light on that, what worked for me, what didn't work for me, my own treatment experience. So I like to bring that all to the table because to your point that nobody's alone.

unknown 12:04

Right.

SPEAKER_02 12:04

You know, we are all in this together. And even though it may feel that way, that your experience is of course unique, but you're not alone in it.

SPEAKER_00 12:13

And it's yeah, it's a it's a special club to belong to, isn't it? It's a club. Yeah. Thank you. I'm looking forward to talking more, um, you know, getting a little deeper into this. That was a great, a great uh way to get started though. But let's quickly talk about our win and our challenges of the week. So do you want to start with a win or a challenge?

SPEAKER_02 12:33

Okay, let's start with a win. Um, my win of the week is, and I say this jokingly, but I really mean it. I just I'm here. Made it through another week. We're here, right? You know, I am in that season of professionally and personally, you know, with the ages of my kids. It's just a lot to juggle, right? And you know, getting them to school, getting them to sports right now. I should knock on all the wood. Everyone is healthy. Um always a win, right? You know, I I have I'm in birthday season. I had my son's first holy communion last weekend. I had a birthday this weekend, I have a birthday next weekend, right? So and it's not even May.

SPEAKER_00 13:15

Yeah, when we're recording, it's not even May yet. Yes. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 13:19

And so just to, you know, I'm just trying to show up. And sometimes that is the win. Um, and to recognize that as a win, I think that's really important because it doesn't have to be this, you know, huge monumental thing. It could just be, you know what, I'm being consistent. I I got to the gym a couple days, like I'm you know, like I got the groceries, the groceries are in the house, the clothes are clean. Yes, the laundry is getting done. But I will say thank you to my husband. He's the laundry guy. Um, my husband for the most part got a lot of that, for us. Yes, yes, that's the win, is just trying to be consistent and showing up. It's not about perfection. And so just recognizing these small moments for myself as wins, I find to be really helpful.

SPEAKER_00 14:03

That's great. That is a win for sure. Um, and I would say my win this week is that my kids had a half day on Friday. It was a teacher in service. And while people always say, oh, being a teacher is such a flexible job. It's flexible in terms of like, I don't have to work in the summer, I get a week off at Christmas. I day to day, it's not as flexible in terms of like, if you're not at work, you need to instruct someone else how to teach the class, which would be like instructing someone else how to be a parent to your children. So that is hard, but my husband's job is more flexible in that he works from home two days a week. And when he needs to, he can work from home. So on those days of in-service or like a random day off or whatever, it's very helpful and a win for me that my husband's like, I'll just be here with the kids and I'll work and they'll play. And it's just so, you know, because I think, gosh, like that was a silver lining that came out of COVID for us, was that his company did become, you know, kind of hybrid. And I think, my gosh, like if that hadn't happened, the last six years of our lives would have been so different because we would have needed so much more care and coverage. And they're at an age now too, where like he's like, they're just gonna watch a movie. And I'm like, that's fine. Like they can, you know, they they went to Wawa, they got their six dollar meal deal, they were happy, they watched a movie, he got to work, and I'm like, but it's just such a win for both of us that we don't have to scramble for where are they going, who's watching them, that kind of a thing. So yeah, yeah, win. Um, and how about your challenge?

SPEAKER_02 15:30

Challenge, you know, even as you're sort of talking about your win, I'm like, oh man, overcoming those challenges. And I think I really relate to currently just at this season of life, you know, in the springtime and it's busy with sports and and also work, you know, work has been I'm so fortunate and feel so proud that, you know, my my business is doing really well and it's growing. And but it's the managing of the two things, right? And and trying to manage being a mom and being a professional and and a business owner, and having more recently a couple of things where I just had to say, oh man, I have to make a decision here, you know, even with you and I, right? I had to postpone, you know, this recording just a couple of days ago. And that felt really challenging, you know, to say, like, oh, you know, I have I have to decide here, what am I gonna put first, right? And you know, typically it's you know, we're gonna do what we have to do to put our family and our personal life first when we can. For sure. Um, but I've noticed those things come up and and even for myself, decide, you know what, I don't know if I could take that on right now. Um even if it's something you want to. Yeah, even just absolutely like a fun thing or you know, with a friend. Or are we gonna fit that in? Yes, yes. And really trying to real being realistic with myself about what it's not always about what I want to do, but what really feels manageable, what feels best for the whole family unit and making those decisions. So I would say navigating that right now has certainly been a little bit of a challenge.

SPEAKER_00 17:00

Yeah, absolutely. And I feel like my challenge is sort of like your win and your challenge put together. And I just wrote down the word schedule. And I'm even thinking about this weekend. You know, we had five hours of softball and baseball yesterday between the two kids and being at the field, and then like we needed to go to Costco. And then today we're doing this at eight o'clock in the morning. Love it because I like, you know, I'm an early morning person, but then there's like we have to grocery shop and I have something to do this afternoon, but also my son might have a baseball game at 11. And when are we gonna make lunch for this week? And what, you know, and and you want to do all the things, but my goodness, sometimes it I find that my dinners recently this spring have been like, let's make cheese quesadillas. Like I usually like cook dinner and I'm like, grilled cheese, cereal, egg sounds great. But I'm like, that's where it has to go. So that's where it has to go. But like you said, we're we're here, we're standing, we're doing it. So hooray. All right, so let's get into our topic talk. And I am so interested to hear what you have to say because again, like this is a topic I'm interested in you in, and you don't really get the expert opinion that often. So welcome, expert. Here we go. Um, let's start with something that I feel is getting a lot of attention right now, as it should. Um, but people don't always necessarily, I think moms feel it, but don't always know that's what it what it is. And can you tell us what is the mental load and why does it feel like so much? Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_02 18:27

We're yes, we're hearing about it a ton, which is great. You know, the the more attention we have and and insight and education on it is fabulous. But the mental load, it's really, you know, it it typically falls on the default parent. And so, and and I want to preface this with saying I am not anti-dad. Okay, not at all. Right, you know, sure you have a great husband.

SPEAKER_00 18:51

I have a great husband.

SPEAKER_02 18:52

Listen, that's why I did him, you know. He is all the things. Yes, absolutely. But listen, I am still the first person that gets called from my kids' school, right? Um and that's that's okay. I there's nothing wrong with that, but it is the mental load is the the silent behind the scenes never-ending running to-do list, right? If actually, if I could show you my um computer screen right now and you see all the little tabs up that it's a brain of our brain, right? All the little tabs and it's you know, it's the doctor's appointments, it's the birthday party, and it's taking a look at each task and not just saying, Oh, Johnny has a birthday party this weekend. It is uh, where is the birthday party? How is Johnny getting there? Who bought the birthday present? Do I have to stay or is it a drop-off? Johnny has an allergy. What is he gonna eat? How is he how is Johnny getting home? You know, like it is there are so many uh invisible quiet behind the scenes things that goes into each and every task. And that is the buildup, right? Because from the outside, it's just like, oh, okay, Johnny's birthday party. Yeah, okay, let's figure it out. There's so much that goes to it, and that is just one little teeny tiny thing, right? So when we're thinking of all of the you know responsibilities that we have as adults, as parents, as you know, like I said, whether you work in or outside of the home, it can become very overwhelming. And I think one of the biggest struggles that women that I work with talk about is feeling like there's no place to put some of this stuff. And it's not that, again, if they have a partner or a village that there are not people that are supportive, there there are. There's this big caveat like we have to identify in order to hand something off to somebody, they have to be willing and capable to accept it, but we also have to let go. And that tends to be, and that's where the work is a lot of time, because to say, oh yeah, I'm gonna let you handle it, and then to be done with it and really truly let go and not to delegate, not to follow up, not to do all of these other things. Because if you're still doing all of that, it's still on your plate. You're not really, you're not really you have someone who maybe is executing, but if you're still managing it, it's still on your plate, it's still part of your mental load. So I think that's a big thing that comes up too for women because I'll say, okay, you know, your husband's willing to say, okay, yeah, I'll take them to the doctor, but are you willing to let go?

SPEAKER_00 21:30

Right, you have to release the control. And that's hard too. Yes, absolutely. And would you say I have often wondered this because my husband and I have had conversations about it where, you know, he'll say, Well, you go do that and I'll take care of this. I'm like, I know, but I feel guilty. And he's like, But you shouldn't. Like, I'm like, but I have to go buy the dress for the wedding, and but I'm gonna do this, and I feel bad that I'm gonna be out for three hours. And he's like, but it's something you need to do. And and I always say to him, I'm like, I know, but it's like a mom thing to feel guilty. Or to feel that you need to be in charge, even if you have a very capable, very willing spouse. So would you say it's, I mean, I feel personally that it's kind of like nature. Like these children come out of you, and we all go a little crazy. It just depends on what amount of crazy we're gonna go, you know? And but you know, I feel like it is almost like a biological, like this child came out of me and now I am responsible for it. And so even if we know that there are people who are willing to help us and do things, and it's hard to let go of that because I'm quote unquote the not quote unquote I am, but like I'm the mom I should do it. Like, do you see a lot of that or 100%?

SPEAKER_02 22:43

You know, mom guilt is another one of those big hot topics, buzzwords. And I think to your point, we all experience it to a certain extent. And there is a biological factor. We cannot deny that, right? Like I talked about, you know, when we after we have a baby, there's significant change in the brain. However, we we can also look at, you know, how adoptive parents feel too. For sure. And I was thinking that when I was saying it, when I was like, they're coming out of my body.

SPEAKER_00 23:11

And I did not mean to exclude people who did not have biological children, but it's that mom thing.

SPEAKER_02 23:16

Yes, they will experience it as well. So but I think that's really important to note because we can't just say, oh, well, this is all biology, right? There is something that is part of choices that we're making. And when, you know, when I say to myself, because I experience mom guilt myself or my clients, you know, when when mom guilt comes up, guilt is an emotion that can be very helpful and very useful. It's a message sent to us. You know, listen, if I if I do something that is not aligned with my values, it's it's wrong, it's bad, you know, however we feel that way. Guilt is there to help me say, oh, I don't want to do that again, right? I I don't like that, I don't want to do that again. But when we have that feeling we feel guilty because we're gonna go shopping or I'm gonna go exercise. Do something I have to do. Yeah. I'm gonna go to the doc. I'm gonna go to the dentist, right? We have to pause and say, hmm, is that wrong or bad? Is that not aligned with my values to prioritize my own health and wellness or just hobbies, desires, right? You know, whatever it is. And if the answer is no, and this is the challenging part, we have to double down, right? We have to do it anyway. And part of overcoming the guilt is through practice and to say, you know what, I went, I did go shopping, I did get the dress. Oh, you know what, everyone's okay. Yeah, everybody survived. Everyone's okay, the kids are okay, husband's okay, I'm okay, right? And the more that we do that, right, not only is there just now we have experience to rely on, but the brain, right? We are we are creating connections, synapses in the brain to say, you know what, it that is it. It was all right, it's okay, right? And I yes, and and it's actually a great, it's a great thing for the kids to be off with dad for the day, right? Like let them have that experience.

SPEAKER_00 25:04

And you know, my kids often want dad anyway. I'm like, thanks, guys. Like I'm chopped liver. We wanted to play with daddy. I'm like, he's the fun, I'm the function, guys, you know. But I'm like, they're perfectly happy. So I feel like I've gotten better at that as I think as your kids get older, it gets those things get somewhat easier because they're less needy and you know, but you still are like, I'm going out for dinner with my friends, which I haven't done in six months. And that's oh, like I want my kids to see that like I have a life outside of them. I love them dearly. I want to spend every day with them. Well, most of the time. Uh, but you know, I also I have friends and I have interests and I have things I want to do, and I think that that's good for them to know and see and grow up with.

SPEAKER_02 25:44

Yeah, and I so appreciate you mentioning that because that is a strategy that I often recommend. It's very different when you just think of the the self, right? Like I I want to go out to dinner with my friends. Oh god, what's wrong with me? I'm not gonna put them to bed. That's so selfish. All right, let's pause there. Let's identify what do you want to be modeling for your children? And I say that, you know, especially I think if you have a daughter who may one day become a mom herself. Do you want to be modeling for your child what it looks like to care for yourself and to have a life outside of motherhood? Right. Because I think so many women I talk to, I say, well, tell me a little bit about what it was like. What did your mom do? Nothing. She was just in the kitchen or I just like I don't remember her having friends or having a hobby or or doing anything. Okay, ding, ding, ding, right? It wasn't modeled, it wasn't taught to you. And so do we want to teach that? Do we want our ch children to feel how we're feeling? No, absolutely not. And that can be very motivating, right? When I identify, you know, what we're doing and how that impacts our kids. It's like, oh, well, I don't want that. Okay, that right.

SPEAKER_00 26:55

So then, gosh, I guess I'll go out for dinner because it'll just make my child, okay, my children will learn from me.

SPEAKER_02 27:00

So out I go. Yes. And the reality is, and especially as you know, as a teacher, right, and as a mom, like it it really does oftentimes come down to it's not what we say, it's what we do, right? We have to model through our own actions, our own behavior. I can say everything, but if I'm not actually showing up and doing the thing, it falls flat. So we do, we have to live our life that way.

SPEAKER_00 27:22

And when you were talking about that, I was thinking, I mean, you know, I'm an 80s kid. My mom stayed home with my brother and sister and I. We were very lucky she was able to do that. And I do remember her talking on the phone in the kitchen all the time, you know, and but also she would go out at night and she, you know, not a ton, but I do remember her having friends and going out with my dad or going to meetings, or, you know, so that was great. But it's funny because when I was pregnant with my first, and I was like, Oh, I'm gonna be so sad to go back to work and, you know, send them to daycare. And she was like, Yeah, but you know what, Kristen, it's really important for your kids to see that somebody else can take care of them and like it's okay. Like that, you know, they need to learn that they can be taken care of by people who are not just you or not just your husband, and like, and that's okay. And I thought of that often, like when I felt bad, because I I mean, because she was home all the time, I had a hard time separating and like I was super homesick when I even went to college because my mom was always there. And when I went to preschool, like I would cry for an hour because I missed my mom. And I'm like, my kids are like, see ya. And we have a bye, but we and we have a wonderful relationship and we spend so much time together. But I do think that that is really important. And I think of that often, like they're okay with other people, and they're okay, and they don't cry when I leave. I had like a little more emotion, maybe. Oh mom, we'll miss you so much. No, but but it's actually better to walk out the door and nobody's crying, you know what I mean? And they're they're perfectly comfortable with other people. So I think that that is something that has stuck with me that my mom said that you know, it's important. It's important for the kids to be able to be okay without you. Yes. Um, and I not to make this all about me, but gosh, I have you here on the screen. So let's use me as an example. I um I diagnosed myself after my son was born with postpartum anxiety. I had a pretty traumatic birth. Um, and he's fine, we're fine, but it was it was really something. Um, love my doctor, not anything against her. It was Ollie was nine pounds and positioned strangely, and there was a lot of bleeding. And anyway, I think that that kind of started my anxiety and uh not postpartum depression, but anxiety in just that like I remember wanting to like go into a little bubble and I called it the nest and like not want to leave and like you know, have my family together. And and I don't know, how does I mean I feel like that often starts with like I always say like, oh, I was like so calm and carefree and laddie-daddy, which my husband's like, you were never like that. In my mind I was, but you know, and then I'm like, and then again, this child is either handed to you and you become their parent, or you give birth and you're like, whoa. And so how would you say anxiety either as a new mom? Or I mean, I feel like it happened and it hasn't gone away yet, but how does it commonly show up in moms, either new moms or veteran moms? How does anxiety show up?

SPEAKER_02 30:12

Yes. Well, I think you know, what you're identifying is really, you know, you're talked about control or wanting to just keep things small and safe, right? Control and anxiety are BFF.

unknown 30:22

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 30:24

Right, they go hand in hand. That is control is how we try to manage our anxiety, right? Anxiety is the what-ifs, it's future focused, it's the unknowns, it's all the scary thoughts. And so if I can plan, if I can control, if I can have know exactly what's going to happen, all of those scary things won't happen.

SPEAKER_00 30:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:43

False, unfortunately.

SPEAKER_00 30:44

They still happen. Shocking.

SPEAKER_02 30:46

We don't have control over that, right? We want to, it's a false sense of control. Um, but so a lot of times in the ways that anxiety can show up, especially in those early postpartum, it's a lot of checking, um, checking baby's breathing, you know, checking, you know, how much baby is eating, um, some health anxiety, you know, worrying about that, not wanting to leave the house, being really overly concerned about um people coming into the home, you know. So there's lots of different ways that it can show up. But I think to your point, when we think of anxiety or depression, I think especially depression, we think of, oh, someone's crying all the time or they can't get out of their bed, or you know, whatever it might be. And anxiety, we just, you know, maybe we think of the panic attack or just like, oh, I'm so worried. It does, it really does show up in so many different ways. And we just have to take a look at how is it impacting functioning at the end of the day? Is it impacting relationships? Is it impacting your ability to do the things that you would normally do? Right. And so, you know, to your point, you know, especially experiencing something like a traumatic birth, it can trigger that um, you know, more intense type of worry and anxiety.

SPEAKER_00 31:56

Yeah, yeah. And it and I, yeah, I mean, so many things to say, but I remember when my son was two or three months old laying in bed. And tell me the fancy word for becoming a mom. What is it? Festrescence. I'm not gonna be able to say that, but Matt, okay. Anyway, so that word that I'm gonna keep forgetting it. Um, I remember laying in bed one night when my son was two or three months old and crying to my husband and trying to explain to him what I think was, you know, I was in like deep in that process. And I was like, you don't understand. I think five weeks ahead all the time. I always have to be ahead of where I am. I'm always thinking about is he outgrowing the clothes? Is this happening? If we're running an errand, how many bottles do I have to bring? Like, and that, you know, and by the time my second daughter was born, I was like, I'm good, like I got this, you know, and it was much less traumatic, quote unquote. But just that, like, and I I think I didn't again, like you often don't, you think I'm gonna have a baby. And but it was that whole, like, I hadn't expected all of those thoughts and processes. And then, you know, after so many years, you're just used to it. Yeah, who's gonna outgrow their clothes in six months? Like, I'll just find it, you know, because it like your brain, doesn't your brain literally change?

SPEAKER_02 33:05

Literally, literally changes. Yes, like if we look at MRIs and the fMRIs, all these things, and there is a shift in the gray matter, all this stuff. And listen, there's a a real need for it. You know, you spoke about this earlier, you know, just this sort of like biological, like, I'm the mom, I need to be caring. Yes, listen, that is real, and that is why there is a little bit of heightened anxiety in the beginning. It's supposed to be there because our job is now to keep this child alive. So I am heightened, I am more attuned. I hear that baby cry, right? Oof, I get a response, you know, all of that stuff, and that's real, and we need that to an extent. Right. Like the cave women probably needed it a little more than we do, but I think it's still inside. That's exactly right. And listen, unfortunately, you know, not much has shifted in our brains from the time of the brains when we were cave people, right? And so we are not, we are not most of us are not protecting our kids from a bear coming, you know.

SPEAKER_00 34:04

Oh goodness, talk about anxiety. No, yes, although sometimes it feels a little like there's kind of a bear in the world right now.

SPEAKER_02 34:11

Yes, and that's a real thing, right? With everything going on, and absolutely, but we do have to pause and say, you know, really zoom in. Like you said, I was always weeks ahead, right? Not even now, I was weeks ahead. Like, how do we zoom into our present and say, is there a bear here? Oh man, I there's not. Not right now. Oh, we're okay. I'm safe, my child is safe, right? And to actually be able to work on challenging some of those thoughts because the reality is we're not being chased by a bear, but our brain and our nervous system is reacting as if we are.

SPEAKER_00 34:52

And that's self-talk. I think even now, like if I'm upset about something, I'll think to myself, Kristen, you're okay. It's okay right now. Everything is okay, everybody's safe. You know, and you know, for what it's worth, I think that's work a little bit. Now, here's a question. I don't know if I have this on our outline or not, but I feel like it's a newer thing. And I feel like, you know, the world is different, but than it was, let's say, when our moms and grandmoms were born, but also their world was different than when their moms and grandmoms were born. But is there any evidence or or data that shows that like our moms and our grandmas went through this? Or is this I mean, because so many of them, their lives were different. A lot of them didn't have to work. Life was quote unquote simpler, and you know, you didn't, I didn't remember hearing my mom talk about it, but I do like my reactions to things, I'm like, ooh, she reacted that way, and now I understand why, because she was feeling this, you know. So I don't know if there's any information.

SPEAKER_02 35:49

Yeah, yes. I think, you know, it's it's hard to to say and quantify because to your point, like our our environment and our lives are just so different. What we're exposed to today is so different.

SPEAKER_00 36:02

The demands, the right my grandma didn't have Instagram, so he knows social expectations.

SPEAKER_02 36:07

Are were there things like you know, postpartum um mood and anxiety disorders? Absolutely. Were they talked about as much? No way, people didn't know, right? There was so much more stigma, no one was talking about that. It would just maybe be like, oh, you know, so and so hasn't been out of the house. We haven't seen so and so in baby blues or whatever they would say. Yeah. I think you know what we are exposed to, even you know, just the and yeah, I always laugh because my mother-in-law always says this, oh, she goes, Oh, you guys know too much. She's like, There's too much information for you, right? And listen, it's a curse and a blessing. It's amazing that we have access to all of this information, but there's a downside to it. There's a downside to this connectivity that we have through social media. Um, and so I do think the same way that we can recognize, you know, how we're raising our children and you know, the stressors that our kids are going through with technology and all the stuff, it impacts us as well. But I do think the general, you know, moms mom still got overwhelmed and you know, kind of lost it back in the day too, the same way that they are now, right? That's that's universal.

SPEAKER_00 37:12

And now we understand why they did. Um, and moving on to another mom topic would be burnout. And that's another word that we're hearing a lot. And what can you tell us what that actually looks like in a mom day-to-day, but also like what's just you're having a bad day, or versus you're you really need a break or you need something to change because you are truly burnt out.

SPEAKER_02 37:36

Yes, yeah. Burnout, you know, burnout is is a challenging thing because it does look a little bit different for everybody. We all have a different level of capacity, what we call a window of tolerance, right? Everyone has a window of tolerance within their nervous system, and then we either get into what's called like hypo-arousal or hyper arousal, right? The hyper arousal is gonna look maybe more like things like what we would consider the mom rage, the the irritability or the overwhelm, the yelling or things like that. The hypo arousal might look more like shutdown or retreating or disassociating, the quiet, right? Uh you know, I just need to kind of get away. But we all have that. And when we are functioning outside of our window of tolerance, whether it's above or below, that is when we can get stuck in burnout, right? And and what that actually looks like on a day-to-day basis, I think the best way, and how most people describe it is man, I'm in survival mode. I am really only able to focus on basic needs.

SPEAKER_03 38:41

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 38:41

I'm just, or um, it's kind of like a groundhog's day to be, I'm just getting up, I'm just doing what I gotta do. I'm trying, I'm trying to eat and drink water. Yeah, maybe. I mean, I'm making close to dark.

SPEAKER_00 38:52

Would it be close to a depression, like a burnout is leading to or it is.

SPEAKER_02 38:58

Um, I it doesn't have to. It doesn't mean like, oh, if I'm burnt out, I'm going to become depressed, but um, it certainly can. Okay. And I think part of, you know, burnout is like what we were talking about, you know, the the demands of raising children, of raising of, you know, managing a household, potentially working outside of the home as well. We have a lot going on. And even just like as you're listing off what you what you did yesterday, it's like oof. Right. So it's that, but it's also, you know, how are we caring for ourselves? We can't just be putting out, putting out, putting out without taking anything in, right? And and how do we care for ourselves? And there's like micro small ways that we do that on a very, you know, throughout the day. And then there's those big, big outlier things, right? So it's like, you know, going out to dinner with a girlfriend, right? Like that's not gonna happen all the time, nor probably do we even want it to, right? So, you know, that would be more of like the the more out of thing, a bigger thing, right? Or maybe, you know, you love to get a massage, and like how often does that really happen? Or, you know, you go away with your spouse. Like, those are the the big ways that we sort of fill our cup, right? I think a lot of times people focus on that maybe a little bit too much. Okay. And I say that because as wonderful as they are, me going out to dinner with my girlfriends, and let me tell you, I love to do that. It's not enough to fill me for the next, I don't know, three months, six months, you know, whatever it is until the next one, right? So we have to really, those are wonderful and lovely, but we also have to consider like resources and you know, like how are we making those things happen?

SPEAKER_00 40:38

And sometimes when you do those things, I feel like if you go away with your spouse, which I think we've done one time in nine years, which is fine. Yeah, there's a lot of work beforehand. Oh, that in terms of finding somebody like so. That's also like sometimes you're like, it's just not like it's not we'll do that later, we'll do that another time. Yeah, because that's a lot of work.

SPEAKER_02 40:57

Yeah, absolutely. There's that piece, and but it is, it's focusing a little bit more like what are we doing on on the day-to-day basis? And I and again, I'm not even talking like you know, something uh that's very time consuming. It could be something really small. Sometimes it's just about doing things with intention, right? To say, you know what, I am gonna go treat myself to you know, the the$7 ice latte instead of making worth it. You know, every once absolutely is that worth it? You know, I I I'm gonna try to get some movement in. I'm gonna prioritize, you know, I'm gonna fill my water bottle up at the beginning of the day, and I'm gonna really make sure that I finish it. You know, I'm gonna sit down and I'm gonna eat a meal. I'm not just gonna eat the leftover scraps from the quesadilla, I'm gonna make one for myself, you know, and it's really prioritizing. And again, those are more like basic needs type of a things, but sometimes we have to start there because those, as we know, can certainly go to the wayside, especially in those early months and years of current health. But then it's also taking a look, and I don't know if you've heard, I've been seeing this a lot more on social media, it's women saying they're getting their pink back, which is a reference. Yeah, those yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:04

Is that a Taylor Swift reference? It maybe just getting color back into her face. Totally love. This is kids, but yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:13

And so, you know, there's that piece too, right? Like you were saying, I it's important for my children to know that I have a life outside of motherhood. And like, yes, what fulfills you? What are you interested in? What activities or things do you want to explore? Do you like to read? You know, it could be that, it could be I'm gonna read before I go to bed instead of scrolling on my phone, you know.

SPEAKER_00 42:35

If you can stay awake, that's my thing. I love to read. Like, I can't do it, I fall asleep. But you know what? But even if it's one page, right? Like do it. Okay, yeah. And I have to say, there's um uh if there are any new young mothers listening, I have to say that, and again, I've been a mom for nine years, but I think that when you're in what the term that I actually don't like, but in the thick of it, when your kids are little and you have babies and toddlers and you almost don't have time for it, two points. You don't have time to get your pink back, but also I found, I mean, I was a little older, my I was 35 and 38 when my kids were born, and I got married late, and I I wanted to be a mom my entire life. And I said to people, uh, like my friends would invite me out or whatever, and I said, no, for a really long time, five or six years probably. And I said, I waited for this for a really long time, and I don't want to be out for dinner with my friends. I want to be home with my children and my husband. I waited a long time, and I I'd say, you know, 80% of the time, I still feel that way, even when they're like arguing and complaining, and I'm like, I still would rather be at home with my family, but I also think so that that's I think a normal feeling if you know a new mom is like, I don't really want to do that right now. That's okay. Like, be at home with your babies that you do that um because that's where you're happiest right now. But also as they got older, and you probably feel the same because our kids are around the same age. Once we hit that kind of like five and three or four and six, like they were a little older, they were a little more independent. I felt that I wanted it. And I also had the time. Like you notice I started a podcast when they were eight and a half and six and a half, not when they were one and three. And like you you have time to think about yourself, and you have to think about like well, what would I like to do? I'm ready to step beyond just changing diapers and holding babies and rocking, you know, and yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:29

And I think what you're identifying here is two very important things. One is the a value and a priority shift that happens regardless when you become a parent, it just does. And so to say, yeah, I used to love to do, you know, to go out or do this or that. And oh, you know, I just like I kind of just want to be home and I'm really content putting my kids to bed and maybe, you know, we watch a show or we do whatever we, you know, cook at home. And and I I I look forward to that. I love that. And that although that's different, that is very aligned with my priorities and my values right now. And so, you know, just sort of accepting and coming to terms with that. And the other piece is yes, you know, during those early months and years, the demands are so high, right? You have these human beings who are dependent on you for every single thing, right? And of course, as you're identifying, as they get a little bit older and they're less dependent on you, that frees up a little bit of time for you to say, oh, okay. What do I like? I forget. Let me think about it. I'm not stuck to like a three-hour feeding schedule anymore, right? No, I have a minute to breathe here. What do I like? Absolutely. And and also recognizing even during that time, I think this is a big one I talk about a lot with my clients, you know, women who maybe they they love to run or do yoga or whatever, you know, movement, things like that. Oh, I don't have time to exercise anymore. You're right, not in the same way that you used to. You don't have the time to drive 20 minutes to a studio, take a class, get a coffee after a yeah. No, that's out the window for now, but how can you incorporate it in a different way? And a lot of times that's part of the flexibility, the mental flexibility to say, you know what, maybe it's just gonna be, I'm gonna go for a walk with my baby, and that's my movement for today. That's amazing. Or I'm gonna do a I'm gonna see if I can hop on a, you know, I have a Peloton. I'm gonna, I'm gonna just do a 10-minute ride on the thing. And and if I can add on more, great. If I can't, all right, you know, for 10 minutes. Get it for right. And so sometimes it's about identifying that we're in a season, right? It can feel like we're in it forever, but we're not.

SPEAKER_00 46:37

But it actually goes fast, actually. To the cliche, it does.

SPEAKER_02 46:40

Oh yeah, in a season, it will change, and and this is how I need to approach that right now. Um, it's gonna look different, but I can still get some of those those needs and goals met.

SPEAKER_00 46:52

And I saw a thing on social media, you know, because it's always tugging at our heartstrings, and it was kind of like a poem, and it was like, it's not my time to go, you know, to the yoga studio. This is not my time to get to pick what I want to watch on TV because we're watching bluey or it's not my time to um cook fancy dinners, you know, and it the kind of the meaning was right now you're in it, you're a mom to small children, and you've had that time and you'll have that time again. But this, like you said, the season of life is very much focused on your children. And and I never really minded that because that was what I wanted, you know, and and and it then it changes again in five years or so, and you can find yourself, you get yourself back a little bit. Um and so that's that's important, I think, again, for young moms, moms of young kids to understand that if you feel like you're in it, you'll come back to yourself eventually. Um yeah. All right, so you touched upon something that I'm really interested in because I think we're all a little ashamed to admit, but I think we all experience it, and that is mom reach. And that is, well, I'll let you talk about what it is. But there's actually, did you read that book? There's a book called Mom Reach, I think. Uh I think that was the title of it. Um, and it was, I read it and I was like, ooh, I'm not as far gone as these people are, but and you know, no judgment to them, but I was like, no, I you identify with like, okay, so this is happening to a lot of us.

SPEAKER_02 48:18

Yes, yes. And that is actually something I've been focusing quite a lot in my um my practice and my online community. I just I'm launching a digital product um specifically related to mom rage for women that I'm not working with on an individual basis, but are really looking for support in that area. And and mom rage is something that unfortunately is sort of near and dear to me because I certainly have experienced it um, you know, in my own motherhood journey. And, you know, it what that really is, like I mentioned before, that window of tolerance that we have. And we come out of that window of tolerance and are in more of what we call a hyper arousal state. So that is when we are feeling overwhelmed, we're feeling irritable, angry, we might see yelling, snapping, you know, whatever it might be. That is what mom rage is. Um, you know, it's the the quiet buildup and then the bam, right? And unfortunately, what comes after that typically is the guilt, I'm the worst, what's wrong with me? They're just a baby or a toddler or a kid, you know, and maybe repair, maybe not, depending on, you know, where you are in your journey. Um, but that can become very cyclical because a lot of times what moms will do, and even in my own experience, it's just like, okay, I'm not gonna do that again. Next time, I'm just not gonna yell.

SPEAKER_00 49:39

But you are.

SPEAKER_02 49:42

Then you're like, wow, what the hell is wrong with me? Like, I'm I'm not cut out for this. I'm not meant to be a mom. Uh, you know, I'm the worst, whatever it is. And I think part of the work there is really identifying that it's it's not a personality flaw, it's not because you're a bad mom, it's an overloaded nervous system. And we all have a nervous system, nothing we can do about that, right? And it's figuring out how do we manage it, how do we manage some of the things that are triggering the overwhelm and irritability. And a lot of times it has to do with our sensory input, right? I know for me, my big trigger is auditory, right? So it's the noises, the loud. And I think the best way to describe um an overwhelmed nervous system, like when you almost like don't even know it, when you're cooking in the kitchen and you have your fan going above the stove, turn it off, and then you're like, oh, so much better. Right. It's that background, like like all you know, and so that is yeah, a great way to sort of describe it. But and as we know, kids are loud, they're supposed to be, right? You know, and all of that stuff. Um, it can be starting to identify like what are the triggering things for me? The car is very overstimulating for me, right? Because it's confined, it's loud, you're screaming, you're trying to drive safely. Um, a lot of times people will say bath time, right? Being in the bathroom, just because of the there's the lack of insulation and things like that, it can be very loud in there or the splashing, or you know, whatever it might be. So, like that can be an over stimulating place for people. Bed a lot of times people say, Oh, you know, I I keep it together all day and then bedtime, forget it. Well, yeah, listen, that is a very challenging time for a lot of parents, but also you've been functioning all day.

SPEAKER_00 51:37

And you know, you just want to go to sleep and you just want the day to end.

SPEAKER_02 51:41

Yeah, the time bed comes bedtime comes around, you're spent, right? And so, you know, what do we do proactively to try to recharge and regulate our nervous system a little bit prior to that? And I'm not talking again, I'm not talking go take a 20-minute meditation. Listen, beautiful. I love that, and I do that.

SPEAKER_00 52:00

Great, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 52:00

Not we don't always have the time for that, right? Right. It could be, you know what, I'm gonna 30 seconds, all right. I'm gonna gear up before bedtime. I'm gonna go, I'm gonna wash my hands with ice cold water, soap, right? There's a lot of sensory input there. It's very regulated for the nervous system, and I'm gonna go into it with a plan, right? And you know, execute, right? And that can be helpful. And then it's little things in the moment too, right? When we're recognizing what are some of our signs and triggers up, because a lot of people will say, Well, I go from zero to 60. You don't. Yeah, it might feel that way, and we might be missing our own build-up signs, but we all have them. And so it's about identifying what those are and figuring out what are the tools and strategies that I can use proactively or in the moment to help mitigate that a little bit, and then also recognizing no matter how amazing your toolbox is, sometimes it's gonna happen. We're not robots, we're human beings, and when that does happen, try not to fall into that guilt and shame spiral, but knowing how to repair with your children and knowing how to be compassionate with yourself, giving yourself some grace and figuring out, okay, what am I gonna do differently next time?

SPEAKER_00 53:19

Yeah. I think the um couple points to make there. I would say my triggers are one, when we're trying to do something for our children, like we're all getting ready to go to the baseball game, or we're all getting ready to take you to the birthday party, and you are refusing to get dressed, or you're complaining about like eating the frozen waffle or something. And I've asked nicely 17 times, and my husband always laughs because same thing, like bedtime, you know, he's like, Oh, you, you know, we do the whole bedtime routine, and why do I love you? And read the book and talk about your day. And he's like, it's kind of funny because I'll be coming out of, especially my son's, he's like notorious for this, my son's room. And I'm like, he's like, you know, you're like, you're the best boy in the world. Mommy loves you so much, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I close the door and he's like, mommy. And he's like, and then you open the door and you're like, what? And I'm like, yeah. I'm like, because I'm like, what? And he's like, you go from like mommy, like mommy dearest to like mommy dearest. I'm like, but I'm finished. Like you know what I mean? Or, or, you know, after I've asked 15 times nicely for you to please get dressed so we can go to the movie or the birthday party. And then that like voice comes out of you, that like yell that like my kids will kind of giggle, and then I'm like, oh crap. And then they cry because they're like, we don't know if this is funny or scary. And it's probably scary, you know. And then, but I also say, like, but you know what happens after that? Everybody eats their waffle and everybody gets dressed. So, like, I don't, you know, it doesn't happen often, but I do know like where my triggers are. So I try, you know, but I'm but then often when I'm apologizing, I will say to them, because I think that is really important. Like I feel like the apologizing is kind of a new generation thing. Like, I don't know that generations before apologize to their kids when things happen, but I will say to my kids, I'm like, I'm a human just like you. And I did ask literally 17 times for you to please get dressed. And we're, you know, that kind of a thing. And it's not that like I'm sorry, but but it's my like, but it was your fault. I don't say that. But it's kind of like, but this is the explanation behind it. Like, I am only a human and I am trying to get four people out of the house. And like, you're not doing the easy thing that I'm asking you to do, and that is very tri triggering to me, you know, annoying to me, whatever it is. So I think that like it's important to let the kids know too, especially at my children's age, like when they're older, like I understand. Yeah, like this is why this is happening. So um, but yeah, I yeah, yeah. And then you're like, oh, that was kind of a scary voice. Sorry.

SPEAKER_02 55:53

To your point, listen, repair is one of the most powerful things that an adult can do with any child. And I say this as a a prior educator, right? So, and I worked a ton with teachers on this. If you can pause and just say to a child, you know what, uh I'm sorry, I made a mistake. I didn't mean to to say it that way or do this or whatever. And it doesn't even have to be. And we're really on chapter four, right? Oh, you know what? You're right. I'm sorry, you got you were right there, right? That is huge, right? Because there's such a power differentiation between children and adults. And so to be able to level that for a moment and just be human to human and say, Yeah, you know what, you were right there, right? It was same with your kids. No, mommy, you know, whatever. That's that's not what channel it's on. Oh, you know what? Yeah, you're right. Instead of oh, well, you know, they changed it.

SPEAKER_00 56:53

It's like however, it's all in the delivery. Say it nicely. Don't make me feel like an idiot. Yeah.

unknown 56:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 56:58

So to be able to do that, and you know, particularly with our kids, it is very disarming, right? Of defenses, it's a vulnerable, it allows for connection. And I will say, and I think every mom's gonna love to hear this, we actually need that. We need to mess up with our kids in order to have these moments of repair and connection because that is a life skill. So if I'm a robot and I'm just perfectly calm all the time, they're never gonna get that.

SPEAKER_03 57:26

Right.

SPEAKER_02 57:26

That's not real life because they're gonna have a teacher or a friend or a boss or a coworker who is gonna lose it and they're gonna have to know how to deal with that.

SPEAKER_03 57:35

Right.

SPEAKER_02 57:35

Right. So here's your pass for yourself to say, you know what? Oh, that was my, I didn't want to put it on my kid, but you know what, that was great. I had the opportunity to repair, and that's a learning opportunity. That's the truth.

SPEAKER_00 57:46

And I feel like that repair moment is often so sweet. I mean, you know, and when you have that and you're like, I'm really sorry. And I think that explanation, like I again, because my kids are older, like when we talk about it, I can be like, you know how you feel this way when this happens? I feel this way when that happens, and you and I are similar. And so, you know, you get mad when something happens, but I get mad when this happens, or you know, and then there's often like, or they're so mad at me that they're like, I don't want to talk to you. I'm like, understood, but later we'll have this conversation. And I I have many, many times over the years at school apologized to kids too, because sometimes like you're trying to get to something or they're trying to tell you something, or you just get like snippy. And again, I'll take them out in the hall and I'm like, hey, listen, or sometimes like I'm a big, like I'm sarcastic and I tease them a lot. And some kids with love, I say teasing with love, but some kids don't understand sarcasm or aren't comfortable with it. And I'll be truly just trying to like make everybody laugh and lighten a moment, and you can see on their face that they're like mortified. And I take them out in the hall and I'm like, I'm really sorry, you know, and because you feel awful, and or even my own children's face, like after I yell or after I whatever, like their whole little face crumbles, and you're like, I'm sorry, but we're all human, so absolutely. Um, and we talked about prioritizing ourselves and and self-care. I think that was a great idea. I liked your idea of just like just start with drinking water, like whatever it is, you know, do something for you. Um, so just a couple more questions. And I feel like this is kind of like the overarching for moms who feel constantly overwhelmed. What is a good place to start to kind of lessen that feeling?

SPEAKER_02 59:22

Yeah, well, I think you have to take a look at what what is going on, what's on your plate. Is there anything that you can delegate or deprioritize or say, oh, you know, that's just not that important? Because sometimes we do have to look at that. You know, we could say there's, like I said before, there's all these tips and tools and ways that we can try to regulate our nervous system and all that. But if we have just too much going on, we're taking on too much, we're just gonna remain in that cycle. So we we really do have to take a look at that and say, you know what, you know, maybe, maybe I don't need to uh, you know, bake bake the cookies from scratch. I'm just gonna go pick up a box of take it off my plate, literally. Yeah, totally. You know, things like that. I think that's important. Or, you know, maybe it's like, you know, I've never done it and I have the resources. Maybe I'm gonna do a grocery delivery instead of go drive and go shopping. It's little things like that to try to just make your life a little bit easier. Um, there can be more of an opportunity if you have a partner to talk with a partner or spouse about, you know, I'm feeling really overwhelmed. Can we take a look at this? Is there anything you can take off my plate and truly take off? Truly, right, right. And to have that, you know, um be off the plate. And then sometimes we got to take a look, like we said, at just like basic needs. Are we taking care of our bodies? Right? Are we uh eating and and nourishing our bodies? Are we getting some movement in? Are we hydrated? Are we connecting, not social media connecting, truly connecting with other people, social creatures? We need that. Um, you know, are we doing anything for ourselves that just is for pure enjoyment and because we we like it, you know, and so all of those things. But I think, you know, it's like taking a look at the load, what what can we let go of? What can we delegate? What can we, you know, sort of attack in a different way? And are we actually taking care of some of our basic needs?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:21

And I think true, also, like you were saying, like there I had a friend who said, you know, uh a mom, especially a working outside of the house mom, like you, or any mom, you can't do it all. So if you are working, you're not gonna be able to work out the way that you want to. Or if you are cooking homemade meals for every meal, then your house isn't gonna be as clean as you want it to be. Or if it's as clean as you want it to be, then maybe you're having chicken nuggets for dinner and that has to be okay. Like, you know, you have to be okay with that. And I was like, Oh, that's a that's a good thought. Like you're you you can do it all, but you can't do it all to the best of your ability, and and and that's okay. Yeah, I always say my house is messy, but my kids are happy and we don't live in filth, so it's good, but there's a lot of plastic toys. But like if I clean them up, they just come out again in 10 minutes. I'm like, really, what's the point? You know, but yeah, like but the clothes are clean and the lunches are packed and the kids are happy, so absolutely yes, we cannot.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:19

I think we were fed, you know, this millennial generation was fed this idea that women can't have it all, and I very much disagree with that. And I think a lot of when the women here, what do you mean? Because like, oh, of course we can have it. No, yeah, you cannot have it all at the same time. So when I am working as I am right now, I'm not with my kids. I have no idea what they're doing, right? I am not in mom mode right now. When I'm in mom mode, I am not tending to my business, right? When I'm with friends, right? Or if I'm to your point, if I'm like, oh, I I really want a meal prep, you know, my lunch for the week. Guess what my kids are doing? They're watching TV. Yes, 100%. And that's okay, right? You know, so to say, like, we cannot have it all at the same time. I cannot do an engaging educational stimulating activity with my kids and chop vegetables. I just can't.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:16

You're gonna cut your finger off.

unknown 1:03:18

Right?

SPEAKER_02 1:03:18

And it's okay to prioritize one over the other and to say, I'm gonna do this now. I'm gonna chop my vegetables now. And then later we're gonna go out and and hit the wiffle ball.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:30

Okay, great.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:31

Yeah. I say to my kids on like Sunday mornings when we are packing lunches and cleaning up the house and doing laundry, I'm like, hey, you can watch TV as long as you want, as long as you don't start stop fighting. I'm as long as you don't start fighting. And I'm like, and it's usually like two hours or whatever. I'm like, that's fine, because then we'll go and do something. But I'm like, if that keeps them happy and weak, I'm like, then daddy and I can do what we need to do so we can then move on with our day. Like, go ahead and watch whatever you want to watch forever. I I saw a mom yesterday. I was at a an ice cream store picking up a gift card and the line was long, and I was watching there was this family, mom, dad, and four kids, probably under the age of eight or something, and you know, good kids, adorable kids, and just kind of doing kid things. And the one little boy was complaining, and the mom was like smiling and very put together, and she was like, Oh, honey, if you're gonna wait for ice cream, you have to wait with a happy heart. And I thought, I wonder if she's always this nice. Because after 20 minutes of waiting in line for the ice cream, I would have been like, if you don't stop, we're leaving, and we're you know, and I was like, maybe she yells at home, maybe we're not, or maybe she is one of those like happy moms, and you know, I was like, but you know, yes, yes, but you saw a snapshot, and this is something I right, you saw someone in public, a snapshot.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:44

No one is like that a hundred percent of the time, right? And also no one is yelling a hundred percent of the time, for sure. So, you know, and and I think a lot of women do get caught up on that of like, I saw this online or I saw it out in the wild, and like, oh my god, this mom had it all together and she was so lovely. And that was a moment, right? And and we have moments too. Listen, I have moments where people are like, Oh my god, wow, you are so patient, you are such a great mom.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:10

And then, oh, you should see me. I'm always like, come on over for dinner and see how well behaved, you know, everybody is well, yeah, you know, absolutely arguing, and yeah, this is these are highlight reels that we're seeing from other people and comparing it to our full reel.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:27

And we have to recognize that there's a difference there.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:30

And I thought if I told my son he had to wait somewhere with a happy heart, we'd all have a sad heart. I told him I got in the car and I said, I'm gonna try that. He was like, Yeah, okay, you could say that to me, mom, but I I don't know how it's gonna go. And I go, I'm gonna remind you to wait with a happy heart. Of course, he's nine, he rolled his eyes at me. And I was like, you know, I don't really appreciate the eye rolling. But anyway, um, and if you could give one mom, uh I'm sorry, not one mom, every mom listening one message today, what would it be as your final wrap up?

SPEAKER_02 1:05:58

Oh, my, my Words to you are that you are the best mother for your children. I'm gonna cry. Um you're just listening we're all doing the best that we can. For sure. And your best is enough.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:21

I love that. That's so nice. That's I love it. You're the you're the right mom for your kids. And gosh, sometimes you look at them and you're like, I love you so much, I don't even know what to do with myself. And other times you look at them and you're like, I'm gonna throw you out the window.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:34

Absolutely, and they're all valid, right? And they're right, and together, those things can live together, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:40

So it's amazing that the human race goes on with with the way that it is to raise kids, right? Like it's amazing. They often they they are they're great little kittles, aren't they? Thank you. This information was so great and so helpful. Um, I love that you cried. I haven't cried yet on this show, but I'm waiting for it. It'll it'll come. I cried.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:57

I cry at like literally at the drop of a hat. I always laugh because I just went to my niece's um recital, and she was not even dancing. It was literally strangers, and I was sobbing watching these girls dance. You know, it's just so beautiful. My family is like, Are you okay?

SPEAKER_00 1:07:16

I'm like, I just look at these girls, you know. So please I I never used to cry. And then again, like that child came out of me, and I'm like, I cry at commercials. I cried in front of my whole class last week. We were um reading a book and it was a chapter about like an a little girl who was an orphan and she had never been rocked in a rocking chair. And I was explaining to them like what that what that meant and why that was important and how it meant that you know nobody had cared about her and loved her, and I started crying just a little, you know, tasteful, a tasteful tear. And then some of the kids started crying. And I was like, you know what though? You won't remember anything about me, but that I cried today when we were reading this book. And then the next day I was like, raise your hand if you went home and told your parents about the rocking chair, and they raise their hand and go, raise your hand if you told them that I cried. And like every hand went up, and one of the kids was like, My parents loved that you cried about that. And I was like, Thank you. I was like, I'm a mom. So, you know, yeah, let the tears flow. Um, all right, I have a couple quick fun questions for you. Okay, so we'll take you from one emotion to the next. What is something that makes you really angry? It can be your children or something else.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:18

Oh my God. I will tell you, I had a moment yesterday. I unfortunately went to the mall on a rainy Saturday. Someone tried to take my parking spot. And I was like, am I about to get out of my car right now?

SPEAKER_00 1:08:30

Am I road raging right now? I might be.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:33

I thought this was only in the movies when your blinker is on, and then someone like I was like, I I thought I was like on a tele television show, but I haven't felt that level of like, I yeah, I think I'm gonna get out of my car. I didn't. Good for you. Recognized your trigger. Yeah, and that was like, oh, I would like, I was like, I haven't felt slighted like that in a long time.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:53

Yeah, they'd be like, Oh, I didn't see you there. Yeah, you did. Yeah, no, I was there.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:57

I was how much longer did it take you to find a parking spot after not that much, but I will tell you it was pouring rain and I'm not a mall person, but I was like, I just had to make this retrace and just get in and get out. And it was fine, but I was like, Yeah, this is why I'm not a mall person. I'm a line dropper.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:13

I right, we used to be mall people for so long. I'm like, I can't tell you the last time I was at the mall. Um, have you ever told a lie that you regretted?

SPEAKER_02 1:09:21

Oh gosh, I'm sure. I I probably fibbed my kids all the time. And then unfortunately, I you know, they they catch me in it. I'm trying to think if there's one in particular. Um, but yeah, no, a hundred percent. We all lie. And if you say that you don't say you don't, you're lying.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:40

Exactly. All right. Well, I always am like, oh, well, that was a white lie to help to you know, to nut so I didn't hurt somebody's feelings. Yes. Um, least favorite emotion. Oh, we're all about the emotions today. What's your least favorite?

SPEAKER_02 1:09:52

Least favorite, I will tell you, this is gonna be sound so odd, but a pet peeve of mine is when people say, I just want my kids to be happy. No, that is so unrealistic and not real life. We want them to experience moments of happiness and moments of joy and excitement, but to have a goal that we're just going to be happy, that's not real. It's an emotion, and emotions are ever changing and they ebb and flow. And we also can't have happiness if we don't have moments of disappointment or sadness or frustration, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:10:30

That's not life.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:32

Yeah, and so uh I love being happy.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:34

It's not that I don't want them to be generally happy, but they also need to feel the feels.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:39

It's just it's not a realistic expectation. I don't think we're setting our children up for success if that's the goal. I don't think we're setting ourselves up as parents for success if that's the goal. Right. I want to have healthy, certainly, want to have healthy children. I want to have children that are resilient. I want to have children that have values and are kind. To be a happy child is not a goal of mine.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:05

I like that because I've got to feel it all to be happy.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:08

Yes, all right. So and and listen, it and it just ebbs and flows. I I love this, and my clients love when it emotions last for typically about like a 90-second window before there's a shift, right? So, yes, and so use that, right? Remind yourself of that, whether it's a really good one or it's a bad one, right? And I'm talking it does there's just like a shift in intensity, right? You would have like, I'm having a I'm I'm sad today, sure, right? There might be like an underlying, but like really intensity, like and there's ebbs and flows in it, or when I get distracted, or they it's a very short window that we experience a specific emotion. So to say, like, oh, I just want my kid to be happy all the time, it's like what?

SPEAKER_00 1:11:48

No, you can't, yeah, yeah, yeah. Really, I'd like to be happy all the time too, but guess what? Um, favorite childhood memory.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:56

Oh, um my family vacation down in Long Beach Island in New Jersey pretty much every summer. Um, so I had so many fond memories of doing that with my sister, my dad, and my stepmom, and my family and extended family on my husband's side, we now are continuing the tradition and we go down every summer and just absolutely love it.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:19

Yeah, okay. Here's a question that I actually asked my husband this morning. He was like, that was random. When people who go to Long Island, Long Beach Island, because I feel like people Atlantic City and South in the Philadelphia area go down the shore. Do you go down the shore to LBI or are you going to the beach? Like, do you say down DTS, baby? Down the shore. Down the shore. Okay. So that's a New Jersey and a Pennsylvania thing. We're going down the shore. Okay. I don't know where that stops. Like, does that stop in like Asbury Park? I don't know where it's.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:07

Like really, I just they teach me things every day. They I admire them because they show up, they love, they forgive, they challenge me in ways, right? That we never thought no, never.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:28

The words that come out of our mouths, I'm like, never thought I'd say that. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:30

Yes. And so just as a unit and the our our relationship, the relationship that I have with each of my kids, you know, I just I admire their honesty, their love, the unconditional love that they provide.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:46

No. And one that's kind of out of the box. If you could get rid of any genre of music, what would it be?

SPEAKER_01 1:13:51

Ooh. Um, any genre of music. I'm not a huge like heavy metal gal.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:00

I love I love hip-hop, I love pop, I love country. It's a little classic rock, like the heavy metal.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:08

I do that. So, fun fact, I've asked this question three times, and three times people have said like heavy metal or that like wall kind of music. So apparently we're on to we're on to something here.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:19

Overstimulating for me. And my kids are actually very much into EDM, which I think is the funniest thing. Like, my son loves EDM and electronic dance music. Oh, oh, yes, yes. Okay, and like all these like DJs, and my husband loves it because it really reminds him of like his like 20s partying days. I mean, me too, but yes, um, and that can be like a little like a lot on the nervous system too, but not in the same way.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:46

Not the not like wah music. Okay, I agree. And I love that like 90s music is back. Okay, I kind of like that like the kids are singing in sync and the backstreet boys, and they're like, Wait, you know this song? I'm like, Do I know this song? Do I? This is like the the soundtrack to my high school year. Do I know it? Oh my goodness. Well, Britney, thank you so much for being here and sharing your insight and heart with us today. And this truly feels like a gift, not just for Mother's Day, but for any mom who needs to hear that she's doing enough. And I think you certainly made us all feel like that. To our listeners, if today's episode resonated with you, we hope that you take this as your reminder to give yourself a little bit of the same care that you so freely give to everyone else. You don't have to do it all, and you sure don't have to do it perfectly. And we're all part of the mom's club, so nobody's alone in this one. If you enjoyed this episode, please like, share, and follow me on Instagram and Facebook at Mom's Work Podcast. And you can listen, follow, and leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen. And also remember that you can find Britney at the momchattherapy.com, at the dot mom chat on Instagram, and the mom chat therapy and wellness on Facebook. And I will um tag you in all like the posts and everything. So, listeners, if you go to my uh social media pages, Britney will also be tagged. So you can give her a follow as well. She's got a lot of great, great uh social media posts just dealing with being a mom and the funny parts of it and the hard parts of it. And Brittany, thank you again so much for being here. And happy Mother's Day, a couple days late to all the moms listening.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:18

Thank you so much for having me. It was a pleasure.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:21

Really enjoyed it.