Pennsylvania's First Lady , Lori Shapiro, on Motherhood, Service & Community- Ep 26

MomsWork Podcast Show Notes

Pennsylvania's First Lady , Lori Shapiro, on Motherhood, Service & Community

In this very special episode of MomsWork Podcast, host Kristin Weinrich sits down with Lori Shapiro, First Lady of Pennsylvania, mom of four, former parenting coach, and lifelong advocate for community service and connection.

From the halls of the The White House to raising a family in the public eye alongside her husband, Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro, Lori shares an honest, grounded conversation about motherhood, identity, and what it means to live a life of service.

This episode explores the real intersections of parenting, purpose, and public life — and how mothers can find meaning in every season, whether at home, in community work, or in leadership roles.

In This Episode, We Cover:

•  Lori’s journey from working at the White House to becoming a full-time mom 
•  The intentional decision to step away from her career to raise her children 
•  What stay-at-home motherhood taught her about identity and purpose 
•  Marriage, partnership, and growing up alongside a high school sweetheart 
•  Raising four children across very different life stages 
•  The reality of parenting while living in the public eye in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania
•  How community service became a lifelong calling 
•  What it means to define “helping others” in everyday life 
•  Lessons learned as a parenting coach 
•  Staying grounded while balancing family, service, and public responsibility 
•  The importance of kindness, community, and showing up for others 

Episode Highlights:

Kristin and Lori also share a few lighter and more personal moments, including:

•  Parenting wins (and challenges!) from the week 
•  Reflections on friendship, support systems, and motherhood advice 
•  A humorous revisit of a well-known early relationship story involving Governor Shapiro 
•  Rapid-fire fun questions to close out the conversation 

About the Guest

Lori Shapiro is the First Lady of Pennsylvania, a mother of four, and a passionate advocate for community engagement and service. Her work centers around strengthening families, supporting children, and encouraging acts of kindness that build stronger communities across the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania.

She is married to Governor Josh Shapiro, and together they are raising their family while navigating public life with intention, humor, and heart.

Closing Reflection

This conversation is a reminder that there is no single path through motherhood — only the one that aligns with your values, your family, and your evolving purpose. Whether you are working outside the home, at home full-time, or somewhere in between, your impact matters.

Mentioned in the Episode 

The God of the Woods by Liz Moore https://www.lizmoore.net/ 

Follow & Subscribe

If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, follow, and leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen.

Follow MomsWork Podcast on Instagram and Facebook: @momsworkpodcast

Follow the First Lady on Instagram: @fllorishapiro
Facebook: Office of the First Lady of Pennsylvania

Follow Governor Shapiro on Facebook: Office of the Governor of Pennsylvania and/or Josh Shapiro

Follow Governor Shapiro on Instagram: @governorshapiro and/or @joshshapiropa

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:14

Welcome to the Mom's Work Podcast, where career meets motherhood and real life happens in between. Hi, I'm Kristen Weinrich, a working mom navigating the chaos, the career, the cooking, and yes, the crying. Each week we get real with moms making it work from classrooms to boardrooms and everything in between. No fluff, no judgment, just honest talk, helpful hints, and the support we all need. Whether you're listening while commuting, catching a break, or buried in laundry, you're in the right place. Welcome. You belong here. Welcome back to Mom's Work. I'm your host, Kristen Weinerd, mom of two, teacher, and someone who is constantly reminded that parenting rarely looks the way we imagined it would. And yet, somewhere along the way, many of us start to ask, how can we take what we're pouring into our families and extend that into the world around us? Today's episode is such a special one. We're talking about motherhood in the public eye, the power of community, and what it really looks like to build a life centered around service, family, and purpose. Joining me today is Mrs. Lori Shapiro, Mama Four, wife, former parenting coach, community service advocate, and also the First Lady of Pennsylvania. Lori's story is one so many of us can relate to in different ways. She started her career at the White House, made the intentional decision to step away to raise her children, and has always grounded her work in commun community building service and helping others. She and her husband, Governor Shapiro, her high school sweetheart, have built a beautiful life together, raising their children, now spanning an age from high school to a college graduate. Mrs. Shapiro, I'm so grateful that you're here. Thank you for having me. So excited to talk to you. Um and I'd love for you to start off by introducing yourself to our listeners and tell us about your family, your journey from the White House to motherhood, um, to Harrisburg, I guess, and how you've shown up for your community over the years and anything else that you want to tell us.

SPEAKER_02 2:01

Right. That's a that's a very big open-ended question to start. I will say first I um I have four kids. Um they range in age from 15 to 24. Okay. Um, a daughter, and then three boys after her. So she she's the uh the big boss in the house with her brothers. Um second mom. I mean, she's she's great. She's great, but it is it is an adventure for her to grow up in a house full of brothers. Um, you know, I I my background, my professional background is in science and technology policy, and I that's what I was uh doing before I had kids at the White House, and I loved it, and it was really fascinating. And then I I had kids and I just sort of decided like I wanted to be home with them. Right. Um, so I did that. I was home for a really long time with kids, and it was um I was really grateful to be able to do that. And you know, here I am. I somehow work here. I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 3:00

And here we are how life just kind of goes, right? It just happens when you least expect it. Now, was the White House the first, like your first job out of college?

SPEAKER_02 3:08

It was not my first job. That's pretty. No, that's not my first job. I well, I I had no job for a little while, and I waited tables, which is a really good life experience. It's a really good, good, good thing to do. It's a good job to have. It teaches you so many different life skills and so many ways to um to engage with people and and all kinds of really good life skills. So I did that for a little bit, and then I got a job at a tech company, okay, an information technology systems company doing procurement. And while I was there doing that, I decided to go back to graduate school at night. Oh, and I studied, um, I had studied anthropology undergrad, and then I studied international science and technology policy. And while I was in graduate school, I had an opportunity to do a project with the Rand Corporation at the White House. Okay. The White House Office of Science and Technology Policy, and that um really led to uh a full-time job at the White House, which was a one it was wonderful. It was a wonderful journey.

SPEAKER_03 4:02

I mean, at in your early 20s, that must have been really something.

SPEAKER_02 4:05

It was pretty awesome, and it was very serendipitous. I mean, it was just, you know, I followed the opportunities. They just sort of happened. It was not, it was not a plan, and that I think is is sort of how my whole life has been. Not a plan, not just riding the wave.

SPEAKER_03 4:19

Wonder what'll be next. Right. Who knows? Well, thank you for sharing all of that. Um, and I'd love to start with a few questions to help us get to know you even better. Um, so what would you say are three words that describe you and why? Okay.

SPEAKER_02 4:32

Well, that is a really tricky question because it's hard to describe yourself, right? So it if it's okay with you, I'm gonna give you one word because I think I think three words. I think, you know, sort of we shift and things are different, different seasons of our lives or different days of the week. But I think one thing that I always am is really grateful. I I have a lot of gratitude, and I really am always grateful for for my family, for my opportunities, for the wins and the challenges in life. Like always really, I really grateful. And I think that that's sort of the the basis for things. And I think beyond that, I really define myself, you know, in my relationships mom, wife, daughter, friend. Like those are really the ways.

SPEAKER_03 5:14

Well, and it feels like from grateful would would grow so uh many other things and all these great experiences you've had. I like that. Grateful. Um, what is the best parenting advice that you have ever received from someone?

SPEAKER_02 5:25

Yes, this is this is amazing advice, and it is my mantra. Okay, and it is it's two things. Okay, don't take it personally and do not escalate. Oh, yeah. Oh, I'm gonna be okay.

SPEAKER_03 5:38

I'm sticking that one in my brain. And I'm like, hmm, kind of used that this morning. Well, how old are your kids? They are seven and nine. So, um, yeah, so there's a lot of opportunity, I think, too, as the nine-year-old is getting older. I'm seeing that more don't take it personally kind of stuff as we kind of start that.

SPEAKER_02 6:00

Yeah, you know. I mean, you can use it every day, and you can kind of stop and say to yourself, Oh, don't take it personally. Don't escalate. Don't that's maybe often the hardest part is the don't escalate. It's in your mind, you're like, Do we have feelings too? Yes, right.

SPEAKER_03 6:14

Like, just do the thing I'm asking or whatever. Has it worked well for you? It does.

SPEAKER_02 6:19

No, it does. I mean, we still have feelings too, right?

SPEAKER_03 6:21

Sometimes it's really, really hard. I'm sure you're still using it with a what did you say, 16-year-old all the way to 24?

SPEAKER_02 6:27

I still have yeah, 15 to 24. You're taking things personally every day, right?

SPEAKER_03 6:32

Every day we're reminding her to be. Okay, I like those. I'm gonna add them into my uh back of my mind. I'll keep you in mind next time we're having an argument at my house. Um, and tell us about the network of friends and family um that you turn for, turn turn to for parenting advice and support.

SPEAKER_02 6:49

Sure. I mean, I I always used to joke that I had a council of moms, a council of moms that you know things would come up, especially when your oldest starts to get older and you have new situations and new challenges and new decisions to make. And sometimes it's hard to separate yourself from what maybe makes sense, your feelings about your child growing older, or your feelings about what they're what they want to do or what's happening. And so I have this group of friends that I really trusted who were generally like-minded, but also had different perspectives. Okay. So I would always, you know, call all my friends and say, This is what's happening. Should I, shouldn't I? What do you think? Am I on the right track? Am I on the wrong track? And I just think having friends that you trust that you can call and talk through those things with you who might see situations differently than you is really, really important to help you check yourself. I think, you know, as a parent, it's really important to do that a lot.

SPEAKER_03 7:43

And in that group of people, were there women of different ages? Like I find that I have a group of friends and co-workers who I talk a lot about uh talk about a lot on the podcast, in that at work, you know, we are all at different stages. And then I have friends with kids of different ages and stages. And I think that is helpful too, because the ones with older kids can kind of be like, listen, it seems like a big deal right now. It's really not. And the younger ones who come to you and you can say, you know, well, this is how I did it, or whatever. So did you, did you have that as well?

SPEAKER_02 8:11

Absolutely. You know, I had the friends with the kids a little older. I was like, at what age did you like this or that? And then as my kids got older, you know, it was really I really appreciated the opportunity to say to other people, Well, hey, you know, I did this, and that was really kind of a mistake. I I learned something from that. And so this is what I learned from it. So to be able to share that, yeah. And in again, to have trusted friends so you can be open about the mistakes that you've made or the things that you've learned, and that's really helpful. Yeah. And we then we realize we're not in it alone, right? We're all making mistakes together. Right, we're all making mistakes together.

SPEAKER_03 8:41

So we're not taking it personally and we're making mistakes and we are not escalating. Maybe in our own heads we are, but and I think too, sometimes once you I feel like the further you get along in motherhood, and again, I'm only nine years in, but I feel like, you know, eight years ago, Kristen would have made a different decision than today, Kristen, because you know, and you can hear all this all the advice that your friends give you, and then you can kind of sort through it and be like, this is what feels right to me. And I think that is an important part too, is being confident in yourself after you, you know, kind of know what works for your family and yourself, but hearing all your options.

SPEAKER_02 9:14

All your options are helpful. Right, right. And again, every child's different, every family's different, but sort of hearing those experiences from other people, it really helps. It does give you a framework for your decision making. So that village they talk about is the village is really true. I have a really awesome village. They I really appreciate my friends and my people so very much.

SPEAKER_03 9:33

And do you have any siblings? Like, do you have any, like my sisters, my sister and I, since having kids, are like, oh, I know what they had for breakfast this morning. Like we kind of like live text each other, you know, this one's doing this, this one's mad about this, this one, you know, whatever. And I find that that has really um made our relationship closer to just having kids close in age.

SPEAKER_02 9:50

Yeah, it's really wonderful. So my oldest two were sort of the first grandchildren in the entire family. But then the other ones, we my brother, Josh's brother, and Josh's sister, we all had kids the same time. The next couple kids were all at the same time. And so there's sets of um 15-year-olds and there's sets of 17-year-olds, and we're all legitimate together. Some of us live close, some of us live closer than others, but we're all very close, and like the cousins are close, so it's just this whole great big family chaos, and we we love it so much.

SPEAKER_03 10:22

Something about the cousins, right? Like the the amount of energy and excitement when the cousins are coming over. And my kids have much older cousins in their 30s, and then cousins who are uh right in their right in their age, and no matter which cousins are coming, the excitement is the same. It's amazing. It's like a special relationship, it really is. So um, okay, let's talk about our win and our challenge of the week. So you can share, you can decide if you want to start with a challenge or a win. Um, something that was a big or a small winner challenge from the week. Um start us off.

SPEAKER_02 10:54

I'll start, I'll start. I have two wins. Okay. I have two wins. One one is um just a general life win that we are really excited in my house that the Sixers beat the Celtics in the first round of the playoffs. That was a big win. It was a big emotional hurdle for everybody. Phillips. We're very excited about that. Um, but I think my my parenting win, I um, as you know, every every family, every mom, sometimes dads, you know, it's a relentless struggle to figure out what to make for dinner. Oh, yeah. Every single day they need to eat dinner. Didn't eat again.

SPEAKER_03 11:28

Everything yesterday.

SPEAKER_02 11:30

Like, why are we doing this? Um and all of a sudden, randomly out of nowhere this week, my high schoolers started to get up from the dinner table and say, Thanks for dinner, mom. And I was like, Whoa, oh, you're welcome.

SPEAKER_03 11:41

Oh, did you enjoy it? Like, where did that thing end?

SPEAKER_02 11:45

Oh, great. You're welcome.

SPEAKER_03 11:46

And like, are they past the point of like melting onto the floor when you've made something quote unquote disgusting?

SPEAKER_02 11:52

I mean, they're they're they're a little too old for the Where does that end, by the way?

SPEAKER_03 11:55

I'm just curious. 12 Yeah, we'll stop melting in a year or two. Like, I mean, you ate it last week. I don't understand why we don't like it tonight.

SPEAKER_02 12:03

Don't your kids do that too. I'm like, you have this. I don't eat that anymore. And it's like, what does that mean?

SPEAKER_03 12:09

You can't take anything else off the list of things that you no longer eat.

SPEAKER_02 12:12

Unless they add things onto the list.

SPEAKER_03 12:14

That is true.

SPEAKER_02 12:15

That is my rule, actually.

SPEAKER_03 12:16

So now maybe they know your children know not to complain and to say thank you.

SPEAKER_02 12:20

Uh no, they still complain. But they don't melt onto the floor. Well then they're older.

SPEAKER_03 12:24

They're old enough that you can be like, well, then great, I can't wait to see what you're making tomorrow.

SPEAKER_02 12:28

Enjoy it. They do cook for themselves sometimes if they're, you know, not happy with what they've been offered. There's always cereal and yogurt.

SPEAKER_03 12:35

So that's always, always an option. That is that is a good win for you. Always. Um, and share your challenge and then I'll share my win and challenge.

SPEAKER_02 12:43

Yeah, I think my challenge comes um every year with the end of the school year when you know the kids start feeling overwhelmed, and you know, there's a lot to do, and they have a lot of assignments and a lot of sports and all the things, and you know, they come to you and they want to talk to you about it, and you know it's really hard to not try to solve solve it for them, like to sort of tell them what to do. It's really hard to to to just listen and and reflect with them.

SPEAKER_03 13:09

So I I've been practicing it just well, you can tell don't they say that you can say to somebody like, Do you want an answer or do you just want a vent? I'm like, I usually just jump into like answer mode, but yeah, yeah, it's hard. It is hard. And you think, you know, with your perspective of life and as a mom, you're like, well, this is what you do. Right. No, no, but you don't know anything. You don't know, oh, you don't know anything either. How about that? Isn't that interesting? I don't under Yeah, no. And and I always feel too like kids of all ages get for lack of a better term, like weird at the end of the school year. I think emotions run high and they're excited for summer, but and especially if they're moving to like another school, like the kids who I teach after fourth grade move to middle school and they get real, I don't know, it's like it's almost like they're getting ready to go to college. Like they're they're hard to be with and they argue with each other, and then like the last week of school when they realize it's actually happening, then they're like, Oh, Mrs. Weinrich, can we help you clean up? Oh, Mrs. Weinrich, you know, but and my own kids get a little like heightened and strange behaviors, and I think it's just like there's so much going on. So much, plus that like anticipation of summer in the next grade. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And sort of that spring fever and all that. Buckle up because we got like six weeks of it. So we're here. So that's still happening in in high school too. Okay, okay, good to know. Good to know.

SPEAKER_02 14:24

That doesn't go away.

SPEAKER_03 14:25

Okay, great. Um I would say my win, I think it's obvious, is being here with you in Harrisburg recording this podcast. And it's just such a like not anything that I ever thought would happen. So thank you so much. It's really quite, you know, we pulled into Harrisburg today and I was like, I'm gonna go talk to Mrs.

unknown 14:41

Shapiro. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 14:42

All right. So thank you. This is certainly a win for me, not just of the week, but a win in general. Um, and I would say that my challenge is I think it's something that is, you know, a developmentally appropriate, typical of kids. But I noticed that, you know, as you said, it's spring and we have baseball and softball and this special thing and that festival we want to go to. And can we go out for ice cream and can we do this? And, you know, we try to say yes when we can. Certainly my husband and I were not raised to think that the world revolved around us and that's how we're raising our children. But it's fun to say yes to all the fun things. And then I said, This week is teacher appreciation week, and I said to my son, um, oh, I just need you to make a quick card for your teacher and for the gym teacher, both of whom he loves to death, talks about all the time. Guess what this one said, guess what that one said. Shout out to Mrs. Bertel and Ms. Mr. Ellis. Um, but I said to him, why don't you make a card? And it became this big like, I can't believe you're asking me to do this and I have so many other things to do, and blah, blah, blah. And I said, But when you ask daddy and me for something, you know, we we try to make it work or we make it happen. And I can't believe that you're acting like this to thank people who have been so kind to you all year long. And I think it's just that you know, push and pull between that didn't work into his schedule at the moment. You know, the Phillies were playing. I mean, priorities. You had to watch. What was I thinking? But just that whole raising your children to realize that like you can ask for something and want it right away, and you may or may not get it, but it's a two-way street kind of thing. And again, we're nine. Um, but I'm like something to work on. Um, so yes, that that was my challenge this week. And we did get the cards made and everybody was happy, but you know, I was like, could you just do it without complaining? That'd be super good, right? No, there's always a complaint. There's always a complaint to bottom. Always anyway.

SPEAKER_02 16:36

Be no fun without complaining.

SPEAKER_03 16:37

That's true. If everybody just did what I asked, what would what would what would we be doing? So, all right, let's get into our topic talk. And I know it looks like there's a million billion questions here, so we'll see um how many we get to. But you started your career at the White House, and can you take that us back to that time and just what that experience was like of working in the White House?

SPEAKER_02 16:57

And it was when was it in the 90s? Yeah, it was the end of the Clinton administration, and then I stayed on um for the beginning of the uh Bush administration. So yeah, it was a it was a great adventure. It really, really was. Um, I told you it sort of happened serendipitously. Right. And I had a wonderful opportunity there, and I got to learn so much about bureaucracies. Like I just don't think until I was there, I appreciated the scale and the scope of the bureaucracy and the impact that the bureaucracy can has can have. And so it was it was a really great experience. And we were young and newly married and living in DC. Like it was just loving life. It was a wonderful time. It was really a wonderful time. Josh was working on Capitol Hill, and you know, we just it was it was a great, great time. It was a great season.

SPEAKER_03 17:42

And were you actually like, did you have an office in the White House or did you just kind of work for No?

SPEAKER_02 17:48

So I worked in the old executive office building, as it was called then. Now it's the Eisenhower Executive Office Building, I think. So it's the you know building right attached to the to the White House across from the the West Wing. So I had an office in there in the Office of Science and Technology Policy. Well, I had a cubicle in the office.

SPEAKER_03 18:04

Don't pretend it was like a big corner office.

SPEAKER_02 18:06

It's my office is nobody ever. I had a cubicle and it but it was great, it was just such an immense learning experience. Um, I really had the experience of the transition, and as you may remember, it was somewhat of an unusual, chaotic transition from the Clinton administration to the Bush administration. So just that being inside and and a part of that in many ways was really um it was just quite an education. And did you like see and meet people all the time like dignitaries and yeah, yeah, all the time. I mean, I think one of the I yeah, I mean, just it was such an interesting, just always something happening, always someone new there, always, you know never knew what the day was gonna bring. Never knew what the day was gonna bring. And we would we would always um write these weekly reports for the work that we had been doing, and we would um send them uh during the Clinton administration, we would send them up to to the president's office, and he would um he was so interested in everything that everyone was doing, he would send the reports back to us with notes on them. So, like it was like the biggest red pen. Not red pen. It was blue pen. That's good. But it was the biggest deal ever. If you got a report back and he had a question or marked up something that you had worked on, it was like you were like, oh wow, like someone's paying attention to my work. Mark it up. Yeah, do you keep them?

SPEAKER_03 19:22

You can put them in a museum somewhere. I should have kept them. I didn't think about that, but I should have. And plus DC is just such a great city, you know, for you and Josh anyway, like on the weekends and the museums, and there's always something going on. It was great.

SPEAKER_02 19:34

Our daughter, our first child, was born down there, and it was really like a wonderful place to have uh a baby too, because we could walk to places and go to the zoo and just do there's so much right at your doorstep. Right. How old was she when you gave it up? She was she was about the job two when we moved when we moved back here. Okay, she was about two. Um, we sort of decided to pack up and come back. We wanted to be near our family. Yeah, makes sense.

SPEAKER_03 19:59

I feel like that happens to a lot of people. I say I always say that like people who I knew who grew up near me, everybody goes to Boston or DC or New York, and then when they have kids, they all come back. And you're like, because you know, you want to be in your family, so it makes sense.

SPEAKER_04 20:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 20:12

Um, and what led you? I mean, you kind of just answered that, um, to make the decision to step away, and it was just really from your career, really just having kids.

SPEAKER_02 20:20

Just having kids. I had my daughter, and you know, I tried to go back to work part-time after I had her for a little bit, and I just didn't feel like it wasn't working for me. I was I didn't feel like I was I and you hear this a lot from moms, right? Like I didn't feel like I was doing anything well, and I didn't feel like I was fully in any one place. And, you know, and it she was born right after 9-11. Okay. And so there was a lot of lots of feelings, right? Lots and lots of feelings. And so I just decided that I, you know, if we could figure it out, if we could make it work, that I wanted to stay home with her. So amazing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 20:57

And you had that great experience, so nobody can take that from you, right? And you always you can always say you work down there. Yeah. And what did your years as a as a stay-at-home mom teach you that you still carry with you today? Oh, patience.

unknown 21:09

Patience.

SPEAKER_02 21:11

Patience. Patience and that, you know, that it's I hate to say it because you know, all the all the grandmas said this to me when I had kids, and I was like rolling my eyes at them, I'm sure. But yes, it goes so fast. Well, the days are long and the years are short. So I love that one. It's true. It's so true though. It's so true. It is. So it is.

SPEAKER_03 21:32

And did you wait, what was my question? Um, oh, I was gonna say, you know, I feel like my dream was always to stay at home with my children, and that didn't work out. You know, I I work and I'm a full-time teacher, and and my kids are perfectly fine, but I also feel like the grass is always greener. Like my mom stayed home with us, and she was always like, Kristen, you kind of romanticized like when I was a teenager having children and staying home. She's like, It's hard and it's monotonous and it monot And you know, she's like, I don't want to say it's boring, but it's it can be boring. And now I'm like, no, yeah, it would be boring. Like I get it, it would be boring. And you know, and I'm like, but a working mom is scrambling all the time and getting the kids situated. So I I, you know, I feel like there's no right answer, and there's no, you know, I always said like working two and a half days a week, that might be the way to do it. Maybe same salary, same benefits. No, but you know, I'm like, and then you would have time in both areas, but I think that working moms look at stay-at-home moms as like, oh, you're so lucky. And stay-at-home moms feel like but you get to leave the house. You know, so it's like no, there's no, there's no right answer, good answer. I think I guess it's just what works for whatever feels right for you.

SPEAKER_02 22:42

And you know, we had four kids, obviously, which is not a small amount of kids. And we joke around that there was like a decade where I didn't shower in the morning. Like I just put on the clothes from yesterday probably. Like we're out, you know. So we joke about that, but it is, it's you know, it's there are pros and cons to everything and every family and every person has to make the choices that feels right for their family.

SPEAKER_03 23:06

And speaking of that village, did you have a group of friends when your kids were little that like I always thought if I stayed home, I would need to find a group of people and be like, just come over for a cup of coffee. Like, just come let like let's just play or let's all go to the library. Like you would need that sort of outlet of speaking to another adult during the day. Did you have that?

SPEAKER_02 23:25

Or a little bit. I mean, I think we we joined activities is what we did. I think most of my most of my really close friends, I'm thinking it through, most of my really close friends did work at least part-time, okay, if not full-time. But um, but there was a preschool community, you know, we we built that community.

SPEAKER_03 23:42

Either neighbors, maybe.

SPEAKER_02 23:43

Yeah, definitely. Neighbors, preschool community, you know, we did all the, you know, little gym music class, all the things we story time. We joke around that we did all those things with like our first two, and then our last two just got dragged around to whatever sport the other ones were playing. They just dealt with it.

SPEAKER_03 23:58

That was their last they put they probably the first two probably have baby books too, and the second two probably. My first has a beautiful one, and my second has one that I made last year.

SPEAKER_02 24:07

Is that really a baby book kind of person? I'm not that focused or organized.

SPEAKER_03 24:11

No, but you're like the the first and second get all the things, and then the next ones are like, sorry, I was busy and tired.

SPEAKER_02 24:16

Except for my oldest will tell you that that you know, the youngest gets to do whatever they want, that there were way more rules.

SPEAKER_03 24:24

Yeah. Yeah, well, what do they call the first one a pancake? Like you have to kind of try it out and see what works, and then the next ones get, you know, what you learn from all of that. And for moms who feel like their work, quote unquote, we know it's not true, but if they feel that their work doesn't count because they are, I've heard people say, Oh, I just stay home, and I'm like, Oh, you don't just stay home. Like, that's a huge that is God's work. You know, what would you say to people who are quote unquote just at home raising their children?

SPEAKER_02 24:50

I just I think it is one of the I mean, raising our kids, regardless of whether you're at work or at home, is one of the most important things that we all do that are that we do in our families, just taking care of our kids, raising them, you know, teaching them, being with them, spending time with them, being supports for them, all those things. It is the most important thing we do in our lives, regardless of how we do it. And so if you're at home and you're doing those things, your kids know you're there and they know that that you're an anchor for them. And that is the the most important thing. And and if you're you're working, your kids know you're setting such a wonderful example to them of how how to balance things and make choices and do the things that are meaningful to you. And and it it's all good. It's all good. And the work in the homes, I mean, childcare, right, is so very important. It's such an important piece of you know, our communities, of you know, the economic drivers of our communities, all those things. And so whether you're the person giving the child care to your own children or someone else's children, that is so important to our community. For sure. It it all matters, it all counts. It all counts, and it is so hard. And I will tell you that when I was, you know, in it with like four little kids, and I would, you know, just trying to get through the day, it was really, really hard. And Josh was in the state house, and he would drive to and from Harrisburg for four hours just to see the kids for 20 minutes. Yeah, I would also leave him a sink full of dishes in the sink at the end of the day, and I was just come home and not like he had an easy day, but he he knew like that was his way of you know supporting me, knowing that that what I was doing was also hard and really important. Right, right. I was appreciating it.

SPEAKER_03 26:29

Which is probably more tiring than his, right? I mean, we're more exhausted at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_02 26:33

There was one time he was, you know, wherever he was sleeping in a hotel out here when he was in the statehouse and he came home and he was he was complaining about something. I was like, Did you sleep all night last night? Because I don't want to hear it. I slept all night last night.

SPEAKER_03 26:45

Don't talk to me about that. I always say if I can get like a solid seven or eight, I am much nicer. I'm like, I can handle anything during the day if I've had a good night's sleep. So luckily, now that they're not babies anymore, my kids are good sleepers. But man, when they were little and oh, and you're like wrung out, and then somebody's crying. Oh, oh, let's not go back there. Those of you doing that, we were we feel ya. Um, and speaking of Josh, you married your high school sweetheart. Um what grade did you start dating?

SPEAKER_02 27:13

Well, we were we were friends, and we we it I mean, it was a journey, it was also a journey, everything's a journey, but we I mean, really we started dating seriously, I would say junior, senior year. Oh but we were, you know, friends the whole time. That's the way it starts, right?

SPEAKER_03 27:28

It starts with friends. And what has that been like? I mean, you two have sort of grown up with each other, and now you got these four kids, and you know, he's a governor, and what has that been like? I mean, you knew him when he was 15. That's kind of funny.

SPEAKER_02 27:41

It's hilarious, and I love it. I mean, I think it's really a special thing to be able to grow up with someone and and build your life together. And you know, we really know each other for since we were kids, and I think that's an amazing thing. And sometimes, you know, some one of the kids will do something or say something, and he'll say something, and I'm like, I knew you when you were that age. I remember. I remember you saying similar things. I remember what you did. You really can't can't get away with anything with you, Kenny. Yeah, so it's great. It's it's a really I mean, you know, we're very blessed. We're very blessed.

SPEAKER_03 28:14

And would you say he's at his core the same person he was in 10th grade, 11th grade?

SPEAKER_02 28:18

Oh, for sure, for sure. But but without question, we were not voting him most likely to be governor of Pennsylvania without I mean that was not what would you have voted him back then? What was his superlative in the yearbook? You know, he was just, you know, he he was, you know, I obviously thought he was adorable and he was hilarious, but he was more of like, you know, not the c he wasn't the class clown. That's not a fair statement, but like he was just kind of the sporty guy, always kind of being funny, lighthearted. Like he he didn't he didn't seem serious back then.

SPEAKER_03 28:53

He was just having a good time. He was just having a good time. Now, this is the question I am most excited to ask you. Um, because I have heard Governor Shapiro talk on a couple of podcasts that I listened to and a late night show um about how the two of you dated in high school and then you broke up during college. And for the for the record, Josh, my husband does not find this story as funny as I do. He often purses his lips when I laugh about it. Yes. And it was okay, so you broke up during college, and he said that he poured his heart out to you in a letter and he mailed it, and he was ready for you because you went to school in New York, but he was and he was in a different part of New York. Okay, and he was just ready for you to drive through the night and show up at his door and just profess your love back, and and that never really happened, and he never heard from you. And then was it years later when you you met back up in Washington, correct? And he um asked you about it, and apparently you did dramatic readings of said love letter with your friends. Yes. Well, okay, so first you get your side of the story. It's not good. I don't it's cute because you're married. I think if if you weren't married, you'd be like, ouch, but it's not great.

SPEAKER_02 30:09

I I would say it's probably the most not nice thing I've ever done in my entire life, and it's just followed me full on into adulthood and he tells the story willingly, so I say he's keeping it alive.

SPEAKER_03 30:20

So it's not good.

SPEAKER_02 30:21

And that's not nice, right? He shouldn't do that. But yeah, so no, it all happened pretty much that way. It was the letter was very extra. It was did you keep that? We did keep it. And one of our kids found it in the attic and read it and said, I can never unsee that now. Like, well, I was like, Well, don't go looking through boxes. Right, that's it's your own fault, I guess. But no, it it it it was not very, but is the thing is, it was a very, very extra letter in my defense. And we were in college, like, you know, and I wasn't like, hey guys, let's do a dramatic reading. It just sort of organically happened.

SPEAKER_03 30:59

You didn't sell tickets or anything.

SPEAKER_02 31:00

No, it just people thought it was really I shouldn't have shared it, but uh, you know, like 19, 20 years old. It's okay. It was okay. And then I didn't tell him that we had a dramatic reading. Of course. I didn't say that, but uh sometime after that, we were together with some of my college friends who proceeded to quote parts from the legend.

SPEAKER_03 31:22

It was, it was, it was maybe he should have been a poet.

SPEAKER_02 31:25

It was mean very extra. So they, you know, they they quoted that and he was like, wait, what? And I was like, Oh my god, this is terrible. So he thinks it's hilarious now. I still feel bad. I still carry it with me. It was not nice.

SPEAKER_03 31:41

But I've heard a saying, it's like, you know, a mother takes an entire lifetime to build her son up and make him the man he is, and a when another woman comes and tears him down in 30 seconds. So again, I think it's funny because you ended up together. Yeah. If you didn't end up together, maybe we wouldn't be telling the story bad. Right. It's kind of like it's a funny, and if it makes you feel better, this um when my husband and I first met, we, you know, exchanged these long text messages and like, oh, now it's like, can you get milk at the grocery store? But it was these like get to know you text messages and blah, blah, blah. And for our, and I always said, gosh, I wish we had had those, you know, because we exchanged a couple emails and then we started texting. And I was like, oh, wouldn't it be fun if we had all those text messages, whatever? And for our wedding gift, oh no, wait for it for my wedding gift. And I actually started to cry when he gave it to me. He somehow downloaded all of our text messages and put them in a book. So I call it the greatest book of all time, just to be kind of funny. But every once in a while we'll open it and just read a page, and I'm like, oh my gosh, no wonder you fell in love with me. Like I was so adorable. No, I mean, like you just go back and forth and you're like, we never talk like this. Like we don't ever talk to each other like this. And it was like, oh, this story of growing up, and I love my job so much, and I do this, and these are the things that I um, you know, do for fun, and just these beautiful back and forth text messages. And I'm like, when our children read this someday, they're gonna be vomiting. Well, that's what they're gonna do. Kids seen that? That is hilarious. Not yet. And it's you know, it's not like they could read it front to back. There's nothing wrong with it, but it's just so like But would you be excited for them to read it or would you be horrified? I wouldn't care because I can see like it's not funny, it's just the humor in like, oh, we were so like young and had time and had all these like text messages to send, and our kids would probably get about three pages into it and be like, okay, we're weird. Yeah, stop. Ew. This is how you guys were. You know, because kids forget that their parents are like real people too. But anyway, so we have sort of, you know, in in in writing the beginning of our relationship. That's really lovely that he can do it. It was very loud. And literally, I opened it and I was like, Is this what I think it is? And he's like, Yeah, and I started to cry. So of course he won. He wins everything like that. Well, that's a much nicer story than until our children do dramatic readings of it or something and put it online, it could happen. So hold on. Bring your anniversary ones on. Oh my please, maybe we should hide it. Um your children are now span, span such a wide range of uh range of ages. Sometimes I get myself all tongue-tied. Um, how has motherhood changed for you? Aside from the obvious, you know, you're kind of just keeping yourself and your children alive when they're babies, but you know, now that they're young adults and adults, how has that relationship or you know, whatever changed for you?

SPEAKER_02 34:23

Yeah, I it's you know, it's pretty great actually to to live in a house with young adults and high schoolers and and to have college students and and beyond. Like it is so great to to sit and talk with them and engage with them and hear what they think and what they have to say and what their thoughts and opinions are. It's just um it's it's really nice. I I really enjoy it. I really enjoy talking to them, and I actually even more enjoy watching them together.

SPEAKER_03 34:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:51

When they're all together.

SPEAKER_03 34:52

They're a nine year nine years apart. And are they all pretty close?

SPEAKER_02 34:56

They are. Okay. They are. It's really, really, it's just so fun to see them um supporting each other or helping each other or giving each other a hard time. So say ribbing each other. Yeah. I mean, they really do not go easy on each other, but just to to see them for the cool interactions, or when they gang up on us, right?

SPEAKER_00 35:13

Yeah, then that's the most fun.

SPEAKER_02 35:15

It is so great, though. I love to see it. It's just it's awesome. But I I really love watching them together.

SPEAKER_03 35:21

That's nice. And there has to be some pride in, you know, and we're not there yet with our kids, but like I formed this, like I made this. This is our family culture, and this is our, you know, what we raised, and this is the relationship. That's what everybody wants, is for everyone in the family to get along and want to be together. And, you know, so you have to feel some pride to take care of each other.

SPEAKER_02 35:43

It's yeah. And they, I mean, they, you know, they really have at it, but then you see the other side of it that they really um they really take care of each other. I actually had read, I was in an office, in an OT office with one of my kids. Okay. And there happened to be this magazine in there, and I picked it up and read it, and it was this study about siblings. Just randomly just picked it up. Yeah. And it was all about how um sometimes kids who seem to get along um when they're really young, that they don't fight and they don't bicker, you think, oh, they have a beautiful relationship. But sometimes it's that they're sort of living parallel lives, and that the kids who were like bickering and fighting and doing all those things, that they're really engaged and connected to each other in a really meaningful way. And I thought it was such an interesting thing, and it really gave me such peace when my kids were little because they were each other, killing each other. But I see it now, you know, as they've gotten older that you know, that relationship is really there, they are very connected. Yeah. So I thought it was just a super interesting.

SPEAKER_03 36:42

That is really interesting, and it makes sense, actually. I mean it makes a lot of sense. Um, and the I I we are starting to see that a little here and there. We were in a you know, because our kids bicker and fight and yell, and but we were in a museum over the summer in Boston. It was the Boston Tea Party Museum, great museum. Um, but our kids were watching a movie, uh, like sitting on the seat, and we were standing in the back because there weren't any seats, and you know, I don't know, a battle started or there was uh whatever, something quote unquote scary in the in the Revolutionary War in this movie. And I saw my son reach over and put his arm around my daughter, and she kind of like, you know, nestled in. And my husband and I were like, Okay, we did something. Like, and now we'll walk outside and they'll be yelling at each other, but you're like, in the and she got hurt at school last year, and he was there, and he apparently took on like a very protective role, and you're like, Okay, good. So, you know, in our house, whatever happens, happens, but you know that you know, in the real world they are they're there for each other, they protect each other. And do your kids like to like hang out with each other free time.

SPEAKER_02 37:43

They do, but they're very loud and obnoxious. Yeah, well, so much yelling and screaming and yelling over each other. And that tells you that they have a great relationship.

SPEAKER_03 37:53

So let the screaming continue, right? Let it go. Um, and you have worn many hats, professionally, stay-at-home mom, and you were we didn't talk about this, but you were actually a parenting coach too. Um talk about that a little bit, and then I'll ask you the follow-up question to that.

SPEAKER_02 38:07

I thought I the uh parenting center at Abington was looking for parenting coaches, and I took the class and it was so it was I was so grateful for it because it really helped inform a lot of the choices. My kids were little when I did it, it really helped inform a lot of the choices and the perspectives.

SPEAKER_03 38:23

What I learned don't escalate.

SPEAKER_02 38:25

It is actually not. I learned that from a very wise grandmother. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 38:30

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 38:30

But I I learned so many skills in that class, and I really appreciated the opportunity to um share them with others. But what was beautiful about those classes is people often came with their young child, the ones that I was involved in. And so, and I had young children, and so we were all kind of in it, and we were all had the opportunity to model and practice together all the things that we were talking about. So it was um, it was it's a wonderful organization, and it was a really wonderful experience for me, and I learned so much. And um, I did it for a little while, but then I just you know decided to have four kids and then it wasn't time for it.

SPEAKER_03 39:06

Yeah, and would would you would the parents come to the center or would you go out into the community?

SPEAKER_02 39:10

The parents came to the center, they would sign up for classes, there were different topics, and they would come and and again bring their kids and we would all talk go through the curriculum and talk about whatever the particular topic was. And it was it was great. I think I think we were more um facilitators than anything else because I really do think that we all learned a lot from each other in those. Nobody really knows any answers, right?

SPEAKER_03 39:36

This sounds good. Here's what the book says. Oh, that's interesting though. So it was almost sort of like a like a mini almost support group or something like just a mom's kind of group to talk about different topics.

SPEAKER_02 39:46

I think so. I would I would call it that. I mean, there was definitely we we had a curriculum that we learned, we had to um, you know, get go through the curriculum, be certified and and okay to in order to facilitate, but I I just think it was so valuable for everybody in all the directions.

SPEAKER_03 40:01

Right to just hear it and hear it's happening to other people. So uh so going along with that, you were a stay-at-home mom, you worked in the White House, you were a parenting coach, and now you're the first lady. And how have all of those roles shaped the way that you make decisions? I know that you said even being a waitress, and I've heard a lot of other people say that. I never was a waitress, but I've heard lots of people say, like, even that, like that that job taught them so much. So you've had a lot of jobs in a lot of different, you know, channels. So how does that sort of shape decisions that you make now?

SPEAKER_02 40:32

Sure. I think all those different experiences, I also, my other I worked at Sesame Place for all through high school and college. So that was a really awesome.

SPEAKER_03 40:41

We had a moment with Elmo there a couple of years ago. I will always tear up when we yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:46

But I I learned so much in the in that experience too, just again, about you know, interacting with people and problem solving and business. I had a lot of opportunities there to learn a lot about business. So it just having all of those different experiences um helped me see that there's not one right path, not one right answer, that you have to choose what's what's right in the moment and and see what's next and figure it out find your way, and that there are many different perspectives and many right answers. That there isn't just one right answer, there are a lot of right answers, and you just have to find what works for you.

SPEAKER_03 41:20

Yeah, that's great. I like that. What did you do at Sesame Street? Sorry, not to wonderful answer. Let's go back to Sesame Street.

SPEAKER_02 41:28

I worked there for so long, I worked in the food service department. Oh, learn a lot. There you go.

SPEAKER_03 41:32

Learn a lot again. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 41:34

Every all the people in my neighborhood, not all the, but a lot of the people in my neighborhood, all the the teenagers, we all worked at Sesame Street. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 41:40

Well, it was a good, good summer place, right?

SPEAKER_02 41:42

Great summer place for people there.

SPEAKER_03 41:44

Now, side note, did you ever take your kids to Dutch Wonderland? Oh, of course. Because that I said, like, I'll always that I'll always have a very special place in my heart for Dutch Wonderland. For people who don't know, Sesame Sesame Place is a little amusement park, kind of closer to Philadelphia than Langhorn. Yeah, Langhorn, like Sesame Street themed, and Dutch Wonderland is in Lancaster, and it's another amusement park, and it's just like we we went there summer after summer. And I'm like, you know, when the kids are too old for this, I'm gonna be really sad. Because it's just the right size for this and they're so happy, and it's so, you know, easy. And yeah, but we did, we went to Sesame. My daughter loves Elmo, and we went to Sesame Place a couple years ago, and he hugged her, and I think I cried. She may have cried. I mean, she like she like disappeared into his red fur, and she was just so happy. So thank you, Sesame Place. I love that.

SPEAKER_02 42:31

I will say our oldest two went to Sesame Place and touch Wonderland and did all the things, and I don't think our younger two ever got there.

SPEAKER_03 42:38

My husband is the youngest of five by 10 years, and he always says that when he would ask his parents, did I do that? Like, no, we did that four times before you were born. He's like, But I haven't done it. And they're like, Yeah, sorry. Like, that's okay. He got to do other things with them. Um, and what has been the most rewarding part of rewarding part of motherhood for you?

SPEAKER_02 42:58

I I love what you know, there's a lot of we're putting a lot in, right? We're putting a lot in constantly, day after day, thinking about it, worrying about it, doing all those things. I love the moments where, you know, you may have put something in six months ago and then you see it come out. You like hear them say something and you say, Oh my gosh, they got it, or that that is amazing. Like that's what we wanted to happen. Like those moments, those are the real, the real wins for me as a parent.

SPEAKER_03 43:27

And are you still seeing that with your kids being young adults? Yes.

SPEAKER_02 43:30

Yeah, probably in bigger decisions that they're making, decisions and making in the way they interact with each other and the way they help each other and advise each other too. Like, I you know, you hear some of it come out when they're talking to each other. So I mean you ever hear your voice come out of there?

SPEAKER_03 43:44

Because like I hear my mother's voice come out of my own mouth. So I'm like, someday they're gonna be saying things to each other.

SPEAKER_02 43:49

And then when that happens, they're always like, Oh god.

SPEAKER_03 43:52

They know too. It's just it's just something that's gonna happen, it's inevitable for everybody, I guess. And what's been the most challenging for you?

SPEAKER_02 43:58

I mean, I think. Just you know, that is a great question. I think there's so many challenges in parenting.

SPEAKER_03 44:05

They're which day do we want to pick it up?

SPEAKER_02 44:07

They're they're sort of endless. But I think having having the patience, right? Like sometimes we're tired, and so and sometimes we've done our best, and you can look back and say, I really did do my best, but I didn't get to the right place or didn't do the right thing or it didn't work out the way I wanted to. And I really did try to do my best. And so that's that's frustrating. That is frustrating. We want to do the best for our kids, right? We want to get it right, but we all make mistakes. So accepting that mistakes are part of parenting, I think that's the hardest part.

SPEAKER_03 44:34

That is probably right, because you're right. You want to you want to do what's best for them.

SPEAKER_02 44:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 44:38

Um, and as a parenting coach, what were some of the most common challenges? Like what were your what were your top topics that you kind of talked about the most? If you I know it was a while ago. Yeah, no, it was a lot of um probably still things that people are talking about today.

SPEAKER_02 44:51

Behavior and sort of getting kids to to listen and do what you want. And, you know, another piece of really interesting parenting advice that someone gave me once was um is I had a my daughter was very enthusiastic about everything and deeply feeling and lots of energy. And if she was doing something and it was time to go, you know, that was a very hard thing when kids were little, like absolute, you know, meltdown.

SPEAKER_03 45:18

And they say give them like a five-minute warning. It doesn't matter. That doesn't matter. No, they're like one minute, they're like, okay, and then when the minutes up, they're like, I don't even know what that is, right?

SPEAKER_02 45:25

But I remember this person told me, you know, next time that happens and they she won't put her coat on or she's freaking out or whatever it is, just stand there and say, I'll wait till you're ready. And I'm like, this is like the dumbest thing I've ever heard, right? Like, how's that gonna help? But I was in a situation we were trying to leave somewhere and she was just having a meltdown, and I was out of tools in my toolbox, and I was like, All right, I'm just gonna wait till you're ready. And like two minutes went by. She stood up, she put on her coat, and we left. And I was like, wait, that worked?

SPEAKER_03 45:55

Because I was ready to do all the things that's really how that works. Well, I'll give you a little inside tip that also works in school because when they're uh it doesn't really, I've actually don't know that I've ever tried it with my own kids, but at school for sure. Like I'll, you know, if the kids are loud or talking or whatever, and I'll just quietly say, When you show me that you're ready, we'll go. And then, you know, one or two kids will catch on and then they are quiet and you know, and I'm like, okay, then great. Thank you. That took a lot longer than I wanted it to, but I might be a little more snippy than you were when you said it, you know. I'm like, that took 10 minutes, but they you know, they'll once they kind of catch you, because I just sort of put on like an indifferent face and I just sit and then they will, because right, right, they don't wanna, they don't hear the you have to get ready, you know. But if you just kind of stop and maybe I should try it with my own kids, maybe it'll work. Although I find that the things that work as a teacher, people are like, oh, your kids like, yeah, my kids don't care. That's a teacher, they don't care at all. My little, my little things in fourth grade don't work at my house. I love that. Um, but that's a good one to try at home on give it a try. Um, and community and service. This is what I'd like to really talk to you about, although we're we'll wrap it up a little. Um, community and service have always been really central to your life. Um, where does that passion come from?

SPEAKER_02 47:08

I just think it's, you know, how we were raised. We were brought up in really strong, tight-knit communities. And I think community can be so many different things, right? There's so many different layers of community. You can have your faith community, you can have your neighborhood, you can have your mom friends, you can, you know, it can be so many different things. Your your peers from work, like so many different layers of community. But what really it comes down to is people who can rely on you and people you can rely on. And I think we just were always brought up in in households that that really prioritized participating in your community, supporting your community, being a part of your community. So it's always been been really important to us. And I think, you know, where we live, I it is there's a very community-oriented feel, like neighbors know each other, they're out there talking to each other, supporting each other. So it's just always been been part of our part of our mindset.

SPEAKER_03 48:02

So you and did your parents do a lot of community service?

SPEAKER_02 48:05

A lot of volunteering. Okay. Yep, a lot of a lot of that stuff, and a lot of so a lot of community service, a lot of volunteering. Um, Josh's dad is a pediatrician in the community, so always deeply involved in the community. His mom was a teacher and always deeply involved in the community. So it just was always, it's just always what we knew.

SPEAKER_03 48:25

And they probably didn't even necessarily realize it, it was just the way they live their lives. But as we know, kids are watching, and there you were watching and learned it. Um, and how would you you sort of did it, but how would you define community and why do you think it's so important, especially for parents and mothers, you know, who are kind of going on it, going at it.

SPEAKER_02 48:45

Maybe you need it. Moms, you know, parents and moms need support and they need to know that they're not alone. And like I just said, there's so many different places where you can find community and where you can build community. And it's just so important for parents to know that they are not alone, that we all are going through these struggles and trying to balance and trying to find our way and trying to do the right thing by our kids. And I think anytime you can make strong connections um with people in in your community, whatever that definition of community is for you, I think that that really strengthens, you know, strengthens your own ability to deal with your wins and your your challenges and your and to celebrate your wins. I think those are all really, really important things because, you know, everything we do is connected to everybody else. And so making those connections um are so, so important. Yeah. God, no, no, I was just gonna say, I mean, you know, we talk a lot now, we've been talking a lot about um postpartum depression. It's a really important issue, and it's something that I think was in the shadows for so long. And I was talking to a woman who we work with who recently had a baby, and she said that um when her baby was born, they came in and they asked her, How are you doing? And I was like, Oh my gosh, you know, no one ever asked me that when she went to the first um, you know, checkup with the pediatrician. They said, How are you doing? Which gave her uh permission to stop and check in with herself, right? Right. And though all those kinds of things, and to know that there are other women who might be struggling or not feeling great or just need a little support. Like those things are so, so important for sure.

SPEAKER_03 50:19

And I think it's you know, I I grew up in one town, teach in the same town, teach in the school district that I graduated from, and we moved to the town next door. And you wouldn't think that's a big deal, but you know, my parents have lived in the town where I grew up almost 50 years. So people always joke, like, Oh, Kristen, you know everybody, and I'm like, but I lived here and I went to school here, and now you know, and moving one town over, I still felt connected to the town I grew up in. But now, as my kids are older, and my husband is coaching baseball and softball, and I'm on the PTO at their school, and I said, you know, I I feel like finally like we were somewhere and I was like, Oh, I know a lot of people here, you know what I mean? And just they're getting older and we're meeting their friends and we're meeting their parents. And I was like, I really like that feeling of being connected and being part of something. And you know, I'm a very like hometown kind of girl, so I think it's important for my own children also to to feel very connected to our town and our school district, and you know, they can also feel connected to the town where I grew up because it's, you know, one mile down the road, but you know, we'll just have a really big community. But I I think that it's important and it makes you know, it's this sounds silly, but like you go to the grocery store and you see five people, and that's to me more fun, I don't know what the word is than going to the grocery store and not recognizing anybody. You know what I mean? You're like, you just feel like, oh, I ran into so-and-so, then I'm the mom who talks to them for 20 minutes. My kids are like, mom! Sorry, it is it's a beautiful thing. Yeah, I I agree with you completely. Um, and in your role as first lady, how are you continuing your mission of community building and service?

SPEAKER_02 51:48

Sure. I one of the the wonderful things that I get to do, one of the real privileges of this role is that I get to go out and visit people in their communities and and really see the work that they're doing, see what's going on in their communities, and to really get a chance to hear from them about what they need or what's going on or what their challenges are, what they think should be different. And it having that opportunity to really listen and spend time has really um been the place where we've found so many of the um challenges that we've tried to tackle. Yeah. Really just from talking to people. And one of the other things that's super important to me when I go out into communities is to connect these people with each other. Like I go one place and I was like, oh, this person should definitely know this person over here because they are, you know, working on similar but different things and they could have a meaningful collaboration, or they might just want to know each other, bounce ideas off each other. So we've tried really hard to sort of build community in that way to really connect people who are really supporting their neighbors and doing really important work with others who are doing that as well. And that's been um really gratifying.

SPEAKER_03 52:54

Right, because they would never know each other otherwise.

SPEAKER_02 52:57

They would like how do they not know each other?

SPEAKER_03 52:59

Right, and now you're the connection.

SPEAKER_02 53:01

So I I really love doing that because I there are so many great things that have come from. I mean, just one very small example. There is a woman in my community who runs a nonprofit. Okay. Um, and she does amazing, amazing work uh providing beds for kids. It's one head at a time, beds for kids. Okay. She does amazing work, and she it's a very long, convoluted story. But the short end is that she was at um the residence for an event, and uh there was a dentist from our community at the residence at the event, and they actually had already known each other, but the dentist didn't know about the work that um this woman was doing in the community. And when they realized, because they saw each other there, they uh collaborated with the dentist, offering supplies, dental supplies to go in the packets with the beds for the kids to provide for those families. So just little, little things, but every time you do that, you sort of build the fabric of society in a stronger way, right? And so we're just really happy that we get to be a part of that.

SPEAKER_03 53:57

You're just gonna make Pennsylvania one big community. It it's Pennsylvania is a 12 million person community.

SPEAKER_02 54:03

Yeah, thirty thirteen, I think.

SPEAKER_03 54:04

Thirteen, okay, yeah, okay. But but that's great. I mean, that's so great. And like you were saying, people in a community kind of working toward the same goal don't always even know that there are other people doing the same thing. So yeah, that's really that's really great. Um, and what does helping others look like in real everyday life, not just on a larger platform? What do you hold the door open for the person behind you, right?

SPEAKER_02 54:27

Well, I I talk about two things a lot. Um, one is the the power of one, right? Like we all have agency, we all have the power to make a difference, and making a difference can look like so many different things. And sometimes people feel that whatever they're doing in their daily, everyday life doesn't matter, or it's not enough, or it's not important enough. But the second thing I talk about is the compounding nature of all these things, of every act of kindness, of every hand you, you know, hand you you you give to somebody else. Like and every every kind thing, every, you know, just checking in on a neighbor or asking a new mom, you know, how are you feeling? You never know how that impacted somebody or where that leads or what the domino effects are from those things. And I I believe in that so much. I think sometimes about conversations that I had with people that really landed a certain way with me and were really meaningful and important to me that they don't even remember. They don't know. And that I took that that experience or that feeling and channeled it into something else and maybe lent a hand to somebody else. So the compounding nature of of everyone's actions is so much bigger than people realize. So whatever you have time for, whatever you can do, it matters. And you're you have agency and you have power to make a difference in the world around you.

SPEAKER_03 55:45

That's such a beautiful thought to think, you know, that truly if you open the door for somebody, it might be the nicest thing somebody did. Yeah, then they'll go and do something else.

SPEAKER_02 55:52

Yes, and it's it's real, and I see it, and I I have the privilege of seeing it because I get to go around Pennsylvania and I get to go around in communities, I get to sort of see that I know that someone did something there, and this much time later it led to something here. Right. And I I always felt it and believed it, but now I really get it. It's actually a real happening.

SPEAKER_03 56:15

I have a friend who calls that the ripple effect. Like if you threw a pebble into water and then you see all the rings that go out, you know, you don't even know what you're touching. You don't even know what you're touching. That's a great thing to think about. Um okay, so raising four kids while your husband is in public office comes with its own unique challenges. And how have you navigated that as a family?

SPEAKER_02 56:34

Yeah, I mean it's I mean, that's that's it's a lot. It's been an adventure. We um, you know, as long as we've have have had kids, we've been in I mean, we've been in public service for our whole adult lives, really. And I always talk about it as a as a group project. And so it's always been always been a family project, and my kids have never known anything different. That's true, yeah. But I think in in the roles we're in now, I mean, it's definitely um different, and there have definitely been it's a bigger group project. It's a bigger group project. There have been a lot of adjustments, right, for our family, and that's been it's been hard, but they understand they get to see the impacts that that the work has. And so they really understand that. And they also know that there are kids and they come first, even though, even when we have to balance things, right? Even when we have to figure it out. So it's um, it's I think, I think maybe one day they might tell us that they're proud of the work we did. I think maybe one day they might maybe. Um, but uh it's you know, it they know, they know why it's important and they know it's important to to be there for others in the community. Right. They look they learn that at school, they learn that at home. So they're um they're pretty good natured about the adjustments.

SPEAKER_03 57:57

A good age too. I mean, maybe there's no good age to have your, you know, parents be in the spotlight in Pennsylvania all the time, but you know, your daughter is grown and out of college and everything, and your youngest is, you know, a sophomore. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_00 58:11

So he's finishing his fresh freshman.

SPEAKER_03 58:13

Okay, but you know, they're not three and four, so they're they can kind of, like you said, see the impact that you have, and they might never tell you. I bet you they're real proud. They'll never be like, Oh, yeah, that was okay what you did. That was fine.

SPEAKER_02 58:25

They actually like to read us meme tweets, they think that's hilarious. That's nice.

SPEAKER_03 58:29

Yeah, they think that's a see I I think I could have a good time with your family. Come over for dinner sometime and hang out, roast the Shapiros. Um, and I mean their lives haven't changed all that much. I guess. I mean, it has, but not you know, their their day-to-day kind of they're still doing their things.

SPEAKER_02 58:49

Yeah, we've tried really hard to to keep things as you know the same as possible for them. So that's a priority. Um we are you know really committed to that.

SPEAKER_03 58:59

And I'm sure that is a challenge for you too. Um, but yeah, good for you and good for them. And you know, look at them reading you mean tweets. Don't you love kids? Aren't they just the best? That's pretty funny. It is kind of funny. Like that's some street cred for them, though. You know, my dad's the governor of Pennsylvania. What's your dad do?

SPEAKER_02 59:15

No, they'll see something, they'll be like, Did you know? They'll say to us, Did you know that you did this? Or, you know, really funny. Yeah. So embarrassing.

SPEAKER_03 59:25

Yeah. Uh how do you agree stay grounded and connected? Because I imagine your life has changed a lot from you know not being the first lady to being the first lady. And how do you sort of stay grounded and connected to your kids and your friends and your extended family?

SPEAKER_02 59:39

I think it's, I mean, really, it's it is the kids, right? I mean, kids, you know, have schedules and they have sports and they have all the things that they have.

SPEAKER_03 59:48

And so they don't want to hear your excuses. They need to get to soccer practice.

SPEAKER_02 59:51

We could not care less about anything that we are doing. So I think you need a dress for that that dance or whatever it is. I think just, you know, having having kids really helps. And it also having kids keeps you connected to your community in sports and school and all those different things. Right. I have, you know, two teenage boys in the house. I am at the grocery store every day. I hear milk is a big thing. They're not big. Do they drink a lot of milk now really? Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:18

I have a friend who has four sons and buys seven gallons a week. I mean that sounds expensive.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:22

I like fill the fridge, and then the next day I'm like, where did all the food? So all those things, you know, just doing the regular life things. It's to remind you, you're just mom. You're just mom. And that and you know, I said this earlier, and it it is true. It is the most important thing that I do. Right. You're like it's a compliment. So yeah. So that's we just stay focused on them. Do the best. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:45

Do the best you can. And how do you take care of yourself in all of this? You know.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:49

I don't want to call it chaos, but you have a very busy schedule. Definitely chaos. Um, maybe not that well. Maybe not that well. I know I I like to run. Okay. And that is a really nice, you know, peaceful, just me. Were you always a runner? Is that true? No. So you know what? I picked up running um when Josh was uh right when he won for governor. Okay. He won the election and I was turning 50 that year. Okay. And I don't know what possessed me, but I said, I'm gonna run the Broad Street run for my birthday. Yeah. And I was like, Good for you. Yeah, but I did. I did it.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:24

Did you do it this Sunday too? Or do you want to just this year?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:27

I didn't, I wasn't able to do it this year. But I've done it twice and I ran the Philly half. Wow. And I, yeah, and it's really um time for me just to mindless, yeah, just for me, not for anybody else. Did you listen to music or do you just listen to nature?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:40

Music. Lots of music.

unknown 1:01:42

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:42

I feel like I could walk everywhere, but running is not my own. I love it. So I feel like I need something. And I love to read.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:50

And I love to read.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:51

Oh, yeah. Oh, good. I have a question about that coming up in just a minute. Um, last big question. What does it mean to you that acts of kindness can heal the world? And how can parents live that out in their everyday lives? Sure.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:01

Well, I mean, we sort of talked about it a little bit, right? Like the compounding nature of every single act of kindness. I think it's it's so big, and I think you so often don't see when you do something, when you do something kind or you uh give someone a smile or you say something nice or you lend them a hand. I don't think you often see how that impacts that person or what happens next. But I think those things matter so much. I think they're they're so big. And as a parent, I always try, you know, like it's hard to be a kid, right? There's a lot of things and a lot of feelings and a lot of challenges. But I try to remember my kids that the most important thing at the end of the day is just to be a kind person and and treat everyone with kindness and respect. Yeah. And you know, it's hard, it's it's an important message. It's hard for us too, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:02:46

It's hard for grown-ups too. If we all did that, what a place we would be in. Right. It's hard. It is hard. It is hard. Um great, great conversation. Thank you so much for sharing all of that. I have a couple quick questions for you. These are the fun ones. Oh boy. Oh boy. Hidden talent.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:03

Oh, I you know.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:04

Other than running. I mean, that's pretty good. I'm impressed.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:07

Other than running. I don't I don't know if I have hidden talent. Okay. I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:13

Soon to be discovered, still to be discovered. Yeah, I'll have to work on that.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:16

Let us know. I heard that you like to bake. What's your favorite thing to bake? I do love to bake. Um, I like to bake biscotti and I like to bake banana bread. I like to bake anything actually. And hala. I bake jala bread every Friday. Okay. I'm I'm an expert jala baker.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:30

Do you ever do French toast with it?

SPEAKER_02 1:03:32

We do. It's good.

unknown 1:03:33

We do.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:33

Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:34

Um favorite. I like to bake and then enjoy what I baked. Well, that's the that's the problem. Sometimes you have to give it away. I give it away a lot because I'm like, I can't. What would be your favorite way to spend a free hour?

SPEAKER_02 1:03:45

A free hour? I mean, we we we like to walk. We Josh and I walk every single day. And okay. Even if it's 10 o'clock at night when we're done with the day, we we take a loop. So we really like to walk.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:56

Oh, that's good. Yeah, it's really nice. Bring it down a little. Yeah. Um, you used one to one word to describe you. What word would your children use to describe you? Uh goofy, maybe. I think I'm a little out there, I think. It's okay. Doesn't every kid think that about their parents?

SPEAKER_02 1:04:12

I'm embarrassing, probably embarrassing. I mean, we're all very embarrassing. Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:17

I feel like it's kind of a compliment, right? Like, mom, like, oh, sorry, did that embarrass you? Right. Um, your favorite place in Pennsylvania, you can't say your hometown.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:24

My favorite place in Pennsylvania. I have so many favorite places. When I wrote it, I was like, ooh, I really put you to it here. Oh gosh, I don't know if I can choose a favorite place. I think I would be wrong. Okay. Um, yeah. You like it all. No, that I mean, look, we have everything, right? We have cities, we have rural communities, we have a beach in Erie. Like we have every mountains. We have, I mean, we have everything.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:49

So maybe we'll be fair and say your hometown. It's your favorite place. Sure, sure. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:54

Because we can't pick favorites. We have amazing state parks. Like we have we have everything. We do, we can do too.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:59

I mean, Pennsylvania is kind of the place to be. Those of you who don't live in Pennsylvania, sorry.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:03

And we have, you know, Philly and Pittsburgh, and they're two amazing cities, really different cities, totally different experiences. Both awesome. Like we have different slang. We have different slangs and John's. We got it all. We have sports games, we have, you know, small towns, for everybody. We have everything.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:19

We do. Okay, it's true. Maybe that was an unfair question. Um we already talked about best parenting advice you've ever gotten, and I liked both of the things that you said. You told me what your favorite kind of exercise is. Who's your favorite singer or band?

SPEAKER_02 1:05:30

Oh, I love music. Okay. So I don't have a favorite. Oh, we're back to me having you pick a favorite.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:34

I know. I'm not good at favorites. Give me like your top three.

unknown 1:05:37

Oh, gosh.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:38

Or just some. Who are two of them?

SPEAKER_02 1:05:40

If you looked at my playlist, it spans all genres.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:43

I hear that.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:44

All decades, all genres. I just I love music. I'm constantly always listening to music.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:50

Are you finding new music? Because I feel like the older I get, I'm like, I like all kinds of music, but I don't necessarily need to add new music. Like I'm good with the last four decades or whatever that I listen to. I you add new. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:01

And that's I mean, that's also helpful to have kids in the house because they're always bringing new music into the house. Yeah. Um no, I I really I could not possibly pick favorites.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:09

I I really have a whole whole plethora of songs. Fair enough.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:16

All of it.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:17

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:17

Book you've recently read. You were just talking about how much you like to read.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:20

I just finished The God in the Woods, Liz Moore. Okay. Oh, you haven't read it. I haven't. You need to go get it today and read it. God in the Woods, it's The God. I always get it a little bit strong. It's either The God in the Woods or The God of the Woods. Okay. Liz Moore. It was amazing. I randomly picked it up. Just I saw it. I'm no real reason the cover caught me and I picked it up and I apparently had missed the boat because people have been loving and reading.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:44

I haven't even heard about it. It's interesting. Give us like the three-sentence summary.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:48

I would say it's a relationship-based crime thriller. Oh, okay. You know, there's a mystery involved in it.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:56

Is it like real scary? The real scary. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:59

It's not real scary. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:01

I won't ask you your favorite genre.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:03

I like all of it.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:04

I like to read everything.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:06

I like it. But yes, please. I mean, I she Okay, I'll put it on my list. It's just so fantastic. And she is a Pennsylvania writer, which I didn't know when I picked it up. Oh, okay. She um is lives in Philly and she teaches at Temple. And even better. It's yeah. So these are all things I found out after. Uh it is not. She has a lot of books. And so now I'm reading. Um, I'm reading another book that she wrote. The title is escaping me right now, but that's okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:32

Um Liz Moore. We'll remember that. I feel like I do my best reading in the summer. So my like season of reading is coming. Yes, because otherwise, you know, during the week I like fall asleep, but I I read a lot of books in the summer, so I'll add it. Um favorite memory from when your kids were small. Oh gosh. Sesame place.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:49

No, no, not I mean that was a lovely memory, but not a not a favorite. Not a favorite. I mean, we go every summer to the beach with our extended family with all the cousins, and so I think those are some of my favorite memories of just all the kids toddling on the beach and eating sand and just, you know, playing, and us all just sort of sitting there and looking around, like, wow.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:12

Like we're riled this out. Yeah. Do y'all still do that? Do you still? That's fine.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:17

We do. That's fun.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:18

You can probably actually read a book now though. Yeah, rather than when they were little, there's no reading on the book on the on the beach. No, no, no, there's chasing. Yeah, oh yeah. And then you're like, okay, we're good. Can we can we wrap this up? You bring the chairs not to sit in them when they're not even worth like bringing them to the beach, I don't think.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:32

But we also used to drag like this huge beach cart filled with stuff. And um, we had it for a really long time and then it broke, and we gave it a funeral. Oh and then we realized our kids are kind of old enough to carry their own. There you go. We don't need a timing.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:47

Perfect timing. We would take we take our kids to the beach at night sometimes, and we're like, we're just gonna play on the sand. I don't know why all these years later, I'm not like just put a bathing suit on because I know you're getting in the water. Totally. Like they come at home dripping wet, but yeah, I love to go to the beach at night because I'm like, then they're not worried about all the people and the sunburn, and yeah, it's just as much fun. Um guilty pleasure.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:09

I mean, I I mean I listen to a lot of loud music in my kitchen.

unknown 1:09:15

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:16

Very loud. My kids come in with a lot of bad words, maybe.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:19

Sometimes there are bad words. My kids come in and they're like, God, can you turn that off?

SPEAKER_03 1:09:23

But I'm having a concert with myself. Now, a lot of my guests say that if they could get rid of a genre of music, it would be what I call wah music, like heavy metal. Are you that or are you just loud music? Like you just like to listen to your music.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:35

I like to listen to my music of all genres very loud.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:38

Very loud. Okay. I like loud music too. In the car, that's a fun one too. You know, and I like to have my concerts in the car. Yes. It's like a car vacation. And then you stop at a red light and you're like, ooh. People see me. Everybody saw that. Sorry, everybody. Um, introvert or extrovert?

SPEAKER_02 1:09:52

Um, I think I'm an extrovert. I have yeah. Sure. I really like I am too. I like to talk to people, I like to see people. It's probably good in your role to be an extrovert. It helps. I mean, I'm a very private person, but I'm very extroverted.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:06

So I think that's that's fair. That's a fair fair way to be. Uh, biggest surprise about becoming first lady. Oh gosh. Biggest surprise.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:16

I don't know. I don't know. What was the biggest surprise? Like, did you expect it to be like it is, or is it more than you thought it was gonna be? You know what? This goes back to my ride in the wave thing. Yeah, I didn't really think about it too much. Okay, you're really a lot of room for surprises because I didn't have a lot of expectations. Okay. I guess it was all a surprise.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:35

Like, so here it is while you're doing it. So it's happening. And final question one day spent with your family. What are you gonna do? Where are you gonna go? Nobody is allowed to complain. You get to make all the calls. The beach.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:45

We're going to the beach.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:46

Okay, we're going to the beach. Are we taking the whole family or are we just taking the six of you? Or are we doing the whole beach? Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:52

We like, I mean, it's hard, right? I mean, some especially because my two older ones are a little older to find that time where it's just the six of us. So that would be a lovely day.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:00

Maybe some boardwalk pizza, some ice cream. That's fun. Well, thank you so much, Lori, for being here today. Your story is such a powerful reminder that there is no one size fits all path, just the one that aligns with your values, family, and your purpose. You can follow Mrs. Shapiro on Facebook at Office of the First Lady of Pennsylvania. And I'm afraid I'm gonna mess this up. FL, like First Lady, Lori Shapiro on Instagram. Is that correct? FL Lori Shapiro. I think so. Yep. I'll tag in everything so people can follow you to our listeners. Whether you're a working mom, stay-at-home mom, or somewhere in the middle, your role matters. Building a family, supporting your community, and showing up for others is meaningful work. If you enjoyed this episode, please like, share, and follow me on Instagram and Facebook at Mom's Work Podcast. And please continue to listen, follow, and leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you consume podcasts. Mrs. Shapiro, Lori, thank you again for your time, your heart, and the work that you're doing to make a difference. This was a pleasure.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:57

Thank you for having me. This was great.