Professor X

This week, we turn to Professor X: calm, principled and often held up as the model of thoughtful leadership.

We explore how his style shifts over time, from coach and mentor to something more controlling, and question whether his belief in coexistence strengthens or limits those around him. Along the way, we test his moral authority, his reliance on persuasion, and the fine line between protecting a team and holding it back.

By the end, this is a more complicated portrait of leadership than it first appears, and one that will change how you see him.

Transcript

Copy Transcript Copied

SPEAKER_03 0:42

Hi everyone, welcome and happy birthday to Andrew, who just let me rattle on about my life for 20 minutes. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 0:50

Thank you very much. It's very kind of you to say so. Thank you. That was my birthday gift to you, was to let you talk. And talk. And talk.

SPEAKER_03 1:04

Welcome everyone to the Leadership Multiverse special edition on Andrew's birthday. How are your birthday boy?

SPEAKER_00 1:12

I'm good. I'm good. Sun is shining. Um that's good. I'm another year older. That's it. That's it. That's all I can say.

SPEAKER_03 1:20

I'm wiser.

SPEAKER_00 1:21

Oh, not at all. Not at all. I find the older I get, the le the less wise I become. You know, the less nice. Yeah. I don't know. It seems like I feel as like I'm becoming less experienced as I'm getting older. But yeah, no, this afternoon my little girl is taking me to see uh is it Zootropolis? Zootopia?

SPEAKER_03 1:39

Oh yeah, Zootrop One of the Up.

SPEAKER_00 1:41

Zoom one, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:43

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:43

You know, because clearly, Daddy, you want to see that for your uh for your birthday? I was like, yep, sounds good. Love, let's do it.

SPEAKER_03 1:48

And a present for her or a present for you.

SPEAKER_00 1:50

That's my plans for this, right? Exactly. But before that, let's we're recording this um uh probably the speaking of wise highlight of my birthday. The highlight of my birthday, recording an episode of the Leadership Multiverse. Who are we doing?

SPEAKER_03 2:06

We are doing well, he's wise, he's bald, he also features, or the actor also features in Oh, actually in another episode that we did, we are doing Professor X.

SPEAKER_00 2:27

And I have to say, I have to say, before we get into this, I think X-Men on Reflection is my least favourite of all the sort of groups of, you know, Marvel and Justice League and everything. I just well I rem I watched I watched several epis several movies to refresh my memory record recording this. And I'm pretty convinced it's the same film, but just over and over and over and over. I mean isn't it? I mean I I watched that X-Men First Class, then I watched X-Men, and then I watched Logan because on your advice on which order to watch the things. And I swear I just I think the first two movies are just watched the same film twice. Just different actors. Just different actors. Just younger versions of themselves. I was like, oh my god. So um so I don't feel I don't I guess I guess I don't feel particularly well disp disposed to uh Professor X at the start of this episode. So I'm looking to you to kind of excite me about him because I don't feel very good about him. I'm not really well disposed about him at the at the kickoff.

SPEAKER_03 3:42

Okay, well, I feel better than that about him. Okay. Um in terms of him being a leader. I don't I quite like the X-Men. However, they're a bit of a childhood one for me though, because there were cartoons. Did you ever see any of the X-Men cartoons?

SPEAKER_00 3:57

I know of them. Uh I don't think I've seen any of those. Uh I didn't I'd be honest, I didn't realise there were 12 X-Men movies. I thought that can't be right. I must have some miscount did that. But no, there are. Oh my god. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:13

Yeah, so I so they're quite nostalgic for me. Um but yeah, I mean, so we we could go into should we should we go into him? Um he's Professor Charles Xavier, his leadership I would say he's rooted in idealism, moral authority.

SPEAKER_00 4:33

Optimism.

SPEAKER_03 4:35

Yeah, he believes I think at his core he believes in peaceful coexistence of humans and mutants, both kind of legally, philosophically, societ societally, society in society, societally.

SPEAKER_00 4:52

Socially. Socially, yeah. It's another word for it. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 5:00

Um but the manner in which he kind of implements all that is very different to other leaders.

SPEAKER_00 5:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:08

He's I mean, well, he's sort of like kind of like a civil rights leader.

SPEAKER_00 5:16

Interesting. He's a yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:18

He's a headmaster of a school and he's sort of a I don't know what you call him. A gen not a general. A general like he's like he'll command the X-Men. Like when they have to fight, he'll sort of be out there telling them what to do. He's like a sort of tactical tactician?

unknown 5:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:38

He's got these very three districts. It's like talking to a thesaurus this morning. I think uh I think I is yes, I think I think you've you hit the nail on the head there. Um his leadership style, when I yeah, because obviously when I'm watching it, I'm reflecting on what how do you how do you sort of capture his leadership style? And I think you've hit the nail on the head there. In X-Men First Class, you're right. I think he's more of a yeah, more of a general, a tactician who he's he observes the field. No, obviously he actually plays a significant significant role as well, but he observes the field and he controls the dynamic and he he's not quite leading from the front, but he's also not leading from behind. He's in and amongst it. But I think latterly, I think after that after that, I think he falls into, yeah, he is a headmaster. That's how I I mean that that for me is what captures his leadership style. He is now he is literally the headmaster of you know the school for gifted youngsters. But actually, I'm looking at his style and I'm thinking about the head teachers that I I had in school and the people I've known who are head teachers, and I think, yeah, actually, I think I think for me his now his overwhelming style is paternalism.

SPEAKER_03 7:05

Yeah. Or like an educator.

SPEAKER_00 7:08

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And and I I think it it looks like it looks like calm authority, it looks like we're talking about psychological safety, it looks like we're talking about talent talent spotting and you know talent development. But actually, I think personally, fundamentally, his overarching leadership style and characteristic is paternalism. And I don't think that's a very healthy leadership angle at all, personally. Um he feels almost like the He feels almost like the benevolent gatekeeper.

SPEAKER_03 7:51

I suppose because we have been blessed with so many X-Men films.

SPEAKER_00 7:58

Blessed. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's uh I when I was watching I was trolling my way through the third movie, yeah, this is a blessing, isn't it? In heavily in disguise, but this is a blessing.

SPEAKER_03 8:09

Well, we see his leadership style change. I would agree with you, I think at points he is paternalistic, particularly in that first X-Men film.

SPEAKER_00 8:22

Um, in 2000. Do you mean when it was made?

SPEAKER_03 8:26

Yeah, sorry, it's in the first like the the first the one that was made first.

SPEAKER_00 8:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:30

Whereas in the earlier one, so what are they called? James McAvoy. When James McAvoy plays him, that's how I'm gonna distinguish between them.

SPEAKER_00 8:40

So first class and then days of past class, days of future past is Apocalypse, is that the other one? X-Men Apocalypse.

SPEAKER_02 8:50

Yeah, mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 8:51

God, yeah, it sort of comes screaming back. No, no, no, it's fine. I think then he is much more kind of um visionary and driven and more involved with the team. Because if you look at um uh first class, he takes a I mean I suppose it is kind of paternalistic, but he's very proactive in developing the team, in nurturing them. Actually, that is very paternalistic, isn't it? Well, nurturing them, but he is also he uses his he uses his powers as well. He does get stuck in um, you know, when he puts the big thing on to find a mutant.

SPEAKER_00 9:28

Puts a big hat on. I think, yeah, and I think what you're highlighting there is the difference between is the tran I think what you're highlighting there is is a transition from coaching because he's coaching those young mutants, you know. They have exceptional powers they that scare them, you know, they have opportunity that scares them, and so he's coaching them to harness that power, he's coaching them to be the best versions of themselves, brilliant, and that's fantastic, and and he is exceptional as that, and then you see him, I think, transition into mentoring, which not the same as coaching, but mentoring, and I think mentoring, and I think he probably is a mentor to Logan, you know, yeah, yes, yeah, 100%, yeah, yeah, yeah. Not a coach by any stretch of the imagination, um, because I think how can you coach the uncoachable?

SPEAKER_03 10:18

Um, I was gonna say, I don't think uh Logan would particularly take kindly.

SPEAKER_00 10:22

No, exactly, exactly. But then I think then what happens is so as a younger, as a younger man, as an emerging leader, he embraces coaching, he embraces mentoring. But I think circumstances, experience have actually, I think it weakens his leadership style so that he ceases to become a coach and a mentor, and this is when he becomes this paternalism, or and he he becomes a a protector. And you know, he and I understand, you know, I because I think you know, I think again, as with all these conversations, you've got to look within the context of which you know he's working, you know, he's not he's not he's not doing your your average nine till five. Um but I think you know you know you see him it's whereas in you know as a young man, so in in in first class, he's coaching people like Havoc and Banshee, you know, he's capacity building, he's creating a culture where they're leaning and relying on each other as well as on him. You know, he's he's a leader that is amplifying the team's abilities, which is fantastic. Then I think you get to you look at uh you look at him in uh The Last Stand, so you know what's that back in you know so we've gone from Jim's McInvoy to uh uh Patrick Stewart, 2006. You know, he conceals Gene Gray's true powers. And that's complete juxtaposition to what he was doing with the others. Yes, she's powerful, she's insanely powerful, but instead of coaching that, instead of nurturing that, it's about well I'll tell you what, I'll protect her from herself. And you know, and then he puts in all sorts of psychic blocks uh so that she doesn't understand herself, and that for me is like that's when he slides into, I think you see him slide into this protector role and this guardian role. And I and I don't know if you saw I know I I published an article a few weeks ago on LinkedIn about um you know nobody nobody needs a shield. If you need a shield, if you need your leader to be your shield, uh or if you feel as a leader that you need to be a shield, then you are failing. And that team is failing.

SPEAKER_03 12:51

No, absolutely. I think there's times sometimes and you I think you feel as a leader that you need to protect your team, and you to a certain extent you you do need to protect them, but not at the expense of them never defending themselves or you overstepping.

SPEAKER_00 13:10

Well, at the expense of their abilities.

SPEAKER_03 13:12

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 13:13

He stops her being the best version of herself. He stops, he prohibits her from doing that. Well, that's not leadership. I don't even think that's protection. I don't even think that's protection.

SPEAKER_03 13:22

I think that is quite manipulative. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:26

And and and and there is quite I think throughout his because you see, and again you see that early on, there's there's this constant well for him it's not really an ethical dilemma, but he does but for other other people recognise the ethical dilemma of him putting either psychic blocks on people or reading their minds.

SPEAKER_03 13:47

Or mind wiping students, which he does as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He and I think this comes from him being very morally driven. He believes that the ends justifies the means because he is right. So he thinks, well, if the aim is to protect Jean, then I will just hide her abilities from her, because in his opinion, that he is correct.

SPEAKER_00 14:12

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So he's not really somebody who learns.

SPEAKER_03 14:20

No, and arguably in Logan, because I only watched Logan for the first time like a few weeks ago. I thought he was quite sad. I mean, it was fairly slow, but I was really sad about what he became. He's not got his powers anymore. He's kind of a bit of a shadow of his former self. Um although it does show that clearly him being Logan's mentor and the relationship between him and Logan sort of paid off in a way in terms of Logan's loyalty. Like people are very loyal to Professor X. Not Magneto, obviously, like that.

SPEAKER_00 14:54

Yeah, but Magneto's side. And all of all of Magneto's group the West, actually. Yeah, we're going out. Yeah, his sister. Well, actually, do you know what? I'm off. But apart from them, his best mate and his sister.

SPEAKER_03 15:06

Apart from him, he's a really angry guy.

SPEAKER_00 15:12

I think, I think, yeah, and I think I think you are right, he does command loyalty, he does command loyalty, but actually, who is he commanding loyalty from? A lot of the time it's from inexperienced uh troubled individuals. I don't think, you know, and actually those individuals, you know, all right, you know, Magneto, okay. Um you could argue that Oh, go on, sorry, go on.

SPEAKER_03 15:40

No, no, no, you go, you go, sorry, you go.

SPEAKER_00 15:42

Well, you know, uh Professor X and Magneto have di you know uh uh complete opposite worldviews. Magneto, you know, sees it as as versus them. Professor X he rejects that worldview and he, as you said earlier on, you know, he insists that coexistence is still possible. Even after, you know, um everything that you know transpires, he still believes that there you know that there is the opportunity to for coexistence. Now, actually, arguably, they're both right and they're both wrong.

SPEAKER_03 16:23

I uh yeah. I was gonna I was gonna say their their ends are the same. Fundamentally, it's just how they get there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's just how they get there.

SPEAKER_00 16:31

No, obviously there needs to be an there needs to be a narrative in movies around good guys and bad guys, and Magneto is painted as the bad guy. But but you know, I'm gonna throw it out there that I don't think Professor X I don't think you know is necessarily the good guy. And I don't think I think it's far more complex as it always is in these in these environments. But I think you know, yes, they have ideological rivalry, but um I think it's too easy to paint them as polar opposites, and actually I think they're pretty much I I think you could look at both of them as and I think as leaders you could probably suggest Magneto is a better leader, because he is a stronger, I think a stronger leader who doesn't necessarily overrely on persuasion which Professor X does a lot.

SPEAKER_03 17:28

Yeah, I th I think Magneto's drivers come from trauma, understandably, because he had a fairly horrendous childhood.

SPEAKER_00 17:39

Yes, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 17:41

Whereas Professor X's come from optimism. Yeah, like yeah, yeah, privil Privilege education, yeah. Um uh a a set career path, sort of. Because he he be he sort of he's a is he a geneticist in the world. He writes he writes like thesis. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Whereas Magneto has to find his way in the world and he's driven because he goes off in um first class to to find Nazis, doesn't he? That's or initially at the beginning, that's where we see him. So he's not he's not on a path in the way that Professor X was, and I think Professor X he kind of embraces, like you say, diplomacy, institutions, you know, he works with people CIA, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:30

Yeah, we speak about that a lot.

SPEAKER_03 18:32

Yeah, exactly. Whereas Magneto, I know he does initially, but he kind of rejects institutions, you know. He believes when he looks at humans, he thinks they're really unworthy. Like I think he doesn't look favourably on humans, whereas Professor X, I think,'s got more of an optimistic view of it. Um would you say Magneto is more of a battlefield commander and more of a protector? Because he does kind of want to protect his I don't know what you call them, his mutants. Um whereas does Professor X put them out there more and delegate more to them? His inner circle. I don't think Professor X is very good at delegating outside of his inner circle, but kind of like Gene Scott Logan, etc.

SPEAKER_00 19:20

Yeah, yeah, probably. Yeah. I mean, yeah, I mean Magneto is driven not by society. Magneto is driven by revenge.

SPEAKER_02 19:30

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 19:31

So he there's no societal good in um Magneto. I think I think the drivers with us with Professor X that paternalism extends beyond just the kids who were in his school, it be extends beyond the you know the X-Men. Uh I think he you know, I think he he has an idealism which arguably slides into naivety, I think, quite a lot, which is where I think um I think that's where Magneto and he significantly differ, is that I think he's idealism slees slides into naivety. Magneto's realism, I think, slides into vengefulness and bad and bad things happening. Um yes, he's uh probably a better I think I don't know. I I don't know if it if if I did a decent delegator, I don't think we see enough of that from Magneto to be able to make the c the comparison.

SPEAKER_03 20:31

Yeah, no, to be fair, we don't. Professor X we do, but with Magneto Yeah, I'm trying to think.

SPEAKER_00 20:40

I don't think in the films there is particularly I think they're both controlling, and I think, you know, again, I think it's easily d I mean Professor X is uh he is emotional detachment is can i I think becomes more pronounced uh th th you know as he as he becomes older uh his calm his calmness, his calm authority, because you know he rarely ever raises his voice. Uh he has he has real gravitas in chaotic situations, he is calm physically, he is still, you know, he's not waving his arms and going into some chaotic, you know, crazed maniacal oh my god, you know, you never see him throw a wobbly. Um but then I think that eventually that that descends into coldness, and I think you know often you see him missing the emotional temperature in his own team. I mean, you know, he misses it in his sister at the very outset. He misses what you know, you know, and and I think that coldness arguably look trans you know translates into into control. Um all in his mind delivers. For the right reasons, but all done the wrong way, and I think that control means that he suppresses he he eventually is suppressing honesty about his feelings, about how he you know about um you know I don't think he has you know we talk a lot, we've spoken a lot in previous episodes about emotional intelligence. Now for a guy whose whose superpower is all driven from his brain, the guy actually isn't very emotional intelligent at all.

SPEAKER_03 22:34

No, and actually, you saying that about his sister, you could see that coming a mile off. A mile away? God, yeah. Like, could you imagine if someone in your team I mean that's effectively it's like someone in your team basically being like, uh I'm not happy, I'm not happy, I'm not happy, and then suddenly they're like, actually, I'm gonna go swap teams, and he's like, Oh, why? Why are you swapping teams? And it's like, mate.

SPEAKER_00 22:58

Yeah, yeah, and there was an assumption of loyalty there that was misplaced.

SPEAKER_03 23:05

From arrogance, yeah, from arrogance. Arrogance. I think he's an arrogant young man. He's quite quietly arrogant.

SPEAKER_00 23:13

Yeah, and you see that the way he flirts with the ladies, you know. He's smooth, yeah. He's smooth, and you don't get to you don't get to flirt and be smooth like that without being arrogant. He knows he's good, you know, and he is good, you know, fair play to him, you know. You gotta you look at him and go, yeah, nice. Um but yeah, I think I think that that arrogance, which I think feeds that protection, protectionism, it feeds that I think it also feeds his over reliance on persuasion. He thinks he he believes he can talk anyone around, even when negotiation isn't viable anymore. If you think about um uh in Apocalypse, uh in you know, repeatedly he is trying to reach the four horsemen long after the window for negotiation has closed. And yet he per and you see it in um Oh god, I can't think which other one it is. I can't think now, but you see it several times. You're thinking you just you you're you know the time for the time for chat is over, you know. Well, actually you see it with you know Magneto puts the helmet on deliberately to block um uh Professor X. No, arguably, yeah, it's on on the face of it, ostensibly, it is to block him, reading his mind. Actually, it you know, I think I think there's part of it going, oh my god, shut up! You're just talking at me all the time. That's not leadership, that's just incessant badgering.

SPEAKER_03 24:50

Yeah, and there's a scene in first class where they're on a ship and he's meant to be reading the minds, I think, of someone on the other ship. I don't know if he's trying to find Magneto. Oh, and he says he says, Oh, there's someone on that ship who's got exactly the same powers as me and is blocking me. And then he's like, Oh, right, that's it then, sorry, I'm gonna be no help. And it's like, okay, they they do have other people who can help.

SPEAKER_00 25:13

It's funny you mentioned yeah, actually, that's right. I watched that bit and thought, my god, that's useful. You're in the middle of a crisis and you just go, Oh, I'm sorry, I'm not gonna help you now.

SPEAKER_03 25:22

Yeah, on a battleship, it's like they've there's probably a plan B. Why don't you go in there, Charles? Yeah, have a discussion.

SPEAKER_00 25:32

Just walk in there, go on, walk in there, you know no, no, I'm gonna sit here in the safety of my submarine. Uh I'm not going to go under you. So, yeah, I did, I did, I did I just spotted that as well. I thought, oh my god. Um felt a bit fatalistic, and actually, as he's then an old man, and of course he's descended into um is it is it Alzheimer's or is it dementia he has?

SPEAKER_03 25:58

But certainly but he has those injections that kind of help him, or drugs, whatever it is.

SPEAKER_00 26:04

But then you know, you see him descend into hopelessness.

SPEAKER_03 26:08

Yeah, yeah. Which is why I'm saying it's very sad. Like it's really sad.

SPEAKER_00 26:12

Yeah, it is, it is incredibly sad. It is. And uh, but it's I but I think it's sadder that as a leader it takes you know that decades of suppressed emotional costs just sort of come out at that in the in that very in those very last moments. I think if he you know if you ever reflect uh on your performance well if you're not reflecting on your performance as a leader until it's far, far, far, far too late until your whole team is decimated and there's nothing left, then I think that's a sad sort of um I think that's rather a tragic sort of indictment of your leadership uh performance.

SPEAKER_03 26:56

Um sorry, sorry. No, go on, you were gonna say sorry. He's not very self-reflective.

SPEAKER_00 27:05

Not at all. Which I think is a big irony given again, give and this is the thing, there's no self-reflection, there's little self-awareness, there's little emotional intelligence, there's huge amount of emotional control, but actually control is sup I think suppression of his own feelings. He's completely unaware of everybody else. At an emotional human at a hu and I think that's the irony, he's unaware of the humanity of his team. He's a he's you he's you he's uniquely um aware of the skills, the mutant, the mutations and the skills that his team have, but come yeah, completely ignores the humanity.

SPEAKER_03 27:48

Yeah, I guess if they all did um what's it called? Myers Briggs. Myers Briggs? Is that the personality test?

SPEAKER_01 27:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:55

He would take all of theirs, analyse theirs, and then shred his own. Pretty much Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think it he kind of um it's funny because I I initially thought of him as a very good leader. Like this podcast is just destroying all my sci-fi superhero favourites. But again, I think we talked about this with with Darth Vader. Just because someone is quite quiet or doesn't perform, um that you know, that doesn't mean that they're a good leader. Just because they don't shout doesn't mean that they're a good leader. Like he's very authoritative, but he's very calm. And he comes across yeah, he comes across as having like a lot of depth. But actually, is that depth? It's not depth. He's actually just no, it's quite shallow in terms of he's just doing what again, the means justify the ends. Yeah. Because he's actually there's a very big question about almost around consent because he just reads people, he does read people's minds. He says to his sister, oh I think he says at one point, oh, you know, I don't read your mind, but I think he does do it once. That's actually incredibly invasive, but he uses his own judgment, again, circling back to arrogance. I mean, we talk about leaders pushing boundaries, etc., but he really pushes the boundary, getting inside other people's minds just whenever you feel like it, ultimately. He doesn't recognise that that is a boundary in itself.

SPEAKER_00 29:33

Yeah, because you can't understand somebody, then his you circumnavigate them. That's what he's done. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think, you know, as a leadership lesson, as a leadership lesson, if you can't understand somebody learn how to understand them. You can't circumnavigate people.

SPEAKER_03 29:51

That's such a good point.

SPEAKER_00 29:52

And and I think you know, I so I was I was pretty ill disposed to um Charles Xavier at the start of this um podcast, but right now I really, really don't like him. I really because I think I think you know, his strengths, you know, model courage, uh t psychological safety, calm authority, I think they're all superficial.

SPEAKER_02 30:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:23

He is a superficial leader. I think there is a genuine going back to his you know the he genuinely wants to protect. He creates that school to to bring in people and protect people. I don't think like you can't question that, but that is not the same as leadership. And the fact that they are called the X-Men is because they're his team. He's the leader. But actually, I I I think they perform better without him.

SPEAKER_03 30:58

Yeah. I mean I suppose he he believes in, I guess, succession planning. Very practical thing by having the school. Would we call it talent acceleration if we're using corporate jargon?

SPEAKER_00 31:10

Oh, talent acceleration? I don't think I've I don't think I've heard that uh phrase.

SPEAKER_03 31:15

Um the big companies use Ah the big companies, they don't employ me.

SPEAKER_00 31:20

They don't ever want me the big companies.

SPEAKER_03 31:21

Well I've never worked for one, I just uh reading a book or something.

SPEAKER_00 31:26

I read it I read it in a piece of fiction one time.

SPEAKER_03 31:33

It was the flyer for uh his school where it said about talent acceleration. And now, flipping that on its head, was he just creating his own little army? Of people who believe what he believes.

SPEAKER_00 31:47

Which ostensibly makes him not different to Mag uh Magneto. Yeah makes him not different at all. Which is why I don't think he is any I don't think we can elevate him above Magneto as a leader. Far from it. I think actually I and I think yeah, I think the I haven't got a good word to say about him. I'm strangling, I haven't got a good word to say about him.

SPEAKER_03 32:12

I'm so sad. I'm just looking through my notes, which we've just basically ripped apart. We should do Magneto, though. We could do Magneto.

SPEAKER_00 32:19

I think that would be a good one actually to do Magneto. Yeah. Um I think it's worrying that I have feel I feel more affiliation to like Darth Vader and Magneto than I do too.

SPEAKER_03 32:31

I actually watched The Empire Strikes back yesterday and I was watching Vader interact with his generals, and I was like, oh, he just promoted that one. I was like, he killed the bloke, but then he promoted the one next to it because he doesn't believe in having gaps.

SPEAKER_00 32:44

There you go. There you go, see? And that to my mind, that's decisive, decisive, courageous leadership right there. I I think I think how you would experience him as a leader. Uh you know, I'm trying to think, how would you experience him as a leader? I think you would experience him as a benefactor.

SPEAKER_03 33:12

Yeah. I think you'd start off liking him and thinking he's this sweet little old man who can read people's minds and seems to say the right things.

SPEAKER_00 33:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:24

But then when you really get into it and understand him and you see him say in action, then you'd be like, uh, we just your pawns then.

SPEAKER_00 33:34

Yeah, he gives him sanctuary, but ultimately it's to a what to a to a different end. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:45

Well add that to the list of movies I will never see the same way again.

SPEAKER_00 33:50

Or uh more to the point, twelve movies you will never see. Um what uh so uh which way I forget which way when we do this.

SPEAKER_02 34:01

Um oh god, are we uh uh do we rank him?

SPEAKER_00 34:05

Yeah, we uh yeah, what does he score? How does he score? I mean, quite frankly, for me, I think he's the worst he's I think he's almost Anakin Skywalker level. Bad.

SPEAKER_03 34:16

Oh, I'm not there yet. I think he's not I think he's worse than Tony Stark, but yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:24

Oh right, okay, right.

SPEAKER_03 34:27

I'll give him a th a two or a three? A two and a half out of ten? What would you give him?

SPEAKER_00 34:33

Oh yeah, I think I think because he gives sanctuary, he does give people he does he he goes halfway there, right? He he he he is the f the foundations for developing his team is is half complete. He gives them sanctuary, he gives them psychological safety, he gives them a space to belong. Uh I think you can't detract from that. You can't detract from that. He gives them that and and and I think you know, and and within that context, he's created an environment where they can support one another. But I think his paternalism, his benevolent gatekeeping, his um his arrogance and his idealism, I think um struggling to go higher than two.

SPEAKER_03 35:30

Yeah. Oh yeah, two. Let's go two then.

SPEAKER_00 35:33

Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_03 35:34

I can't remember what Anakin had. Was Anakin a one? If that.

SPEAKER_00 35:37

Yeah, I think if we I'm not even sure we could score Anakin. Uh but you see, I think okay, so here we go. So going into now, if we think about in what world, in what other universe does Professor X thrive or survive or not? I would I would put I would put uh in in a Star Wars context, in a Jedi context, Professor X is exactly the reason why Anakin Skywalker doesn't thrive. Because it's only half doing the job. The Jedi only half did the job with Anakin Skywalker, and it's exactly the same problem. It's exactly the same. We're only going halfway there.

SPEAKER_03 36:17

So you could see him as a a Jedi, well, you could see him as a Jedi with Jedi, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:23

Council or whatever, yeah. Sat next to Yoda, loading it all over everybody, giving it the big I am, but actually fundamentally failing. Because again, the Jedi's they've got this safe environment where there's young Jedi's, these kids rock up, and it's like we're gonna nurture you and give you sanctuary and everything, but then we're gonna send you out as an army.

SPEAKER_03 36:43

That's such a oh, that is such a good parallel. That's a really good parallel. Obviously, that's what we're here to do with the multiverse.

SPEAKER_00 36:50

Yeah, you so I can see him. My god, Andrew, you know some stuff. What can I say?

SPEAKER_03 36:57

No, no, because I like it. I could yeah, I could totally see him in a robe sat round the Jedi Council with a lightsaber.

SPEAKER_00 37:04

I can definitely see him. I can I can definitely see him on the bridge of the enterprise.

SPEAKER_03 37:09

Well, we have seen him on the bridge of the enterprise.

SPEAKER_00 37:12

Yeah, for obvious reasons. Um in a J Day environment, he's exactly what they need.

SPEAKER_03 37:21

Yeah. I couldn't see him in like Avengers or Justice League unless they're all doing what he wanted. Like, I think if Tony Stark went off and did his own thing, or if Hulk went off and smashed, I don't think he'd be very happy about that. But if he was sort of out there saying, Oh, you should be doing this, you should be doing that, then I think I'd yeah, I just don't think it's the right environment for him. They're too maverick.

SPEAKER_00 37:49

Yeah, I mean he just is he just about he just about keeps control of uh Logan, you know? And even then he doesn't, you know. It's more about well, yeah. I think again Log Logan's loyalty to him is driven by paternalism.

SPEAKER_03 38:07

Yeah. Yeah, I mean Logan's a mess, really. Logan Logan is his anakin. Is Logan the anakin to his Obi-Wan?

SPEAKER_00 38:19

I don't know. Would he is he is there any other uh would he probably do quite well on the wall. I think I can see him on the night's watch. Um there, you'd be like, oh god, just put him up on the wall. Yeah, get rid of him.

SPEAKER_03 38:35

You would it's like yeah, it's like when you second people from work you don't want to deal with. Yeah. Yeah. Send Charles to the wall, just just you know, he'd like it up there, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:48

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 38:50

Um yeah, uh the fellowship in Lord of the Rings.

unknown 38:55

No.

SPEAKER_03 38:56

He wouldn't he would command them from his hobbit house, but he wouldn't go with them on the journey. He'd sit there with his big his big cerebro. Cerebro, is that what it's called?

SPEAKER_00 39:10

Cerebro, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 39:11

He'd sit there with cerebro on looking where Gollum is, but he wouldn't want to go with them.

SPEAKER_00 39:16

Yeah. So he's a bit like um so actually he's a bit like oh what's what's it in Lord of the Rings, the eye. Um you know, in in Lord of the Rings, you've got that big old C and I, it's the big black tower, and it's got that all C and I and everything, and it's like um oh god, I have to watch those movies before we do L O T R. Oh my god. Are we doing the new year, aren't we? Okay, well, guess what I'll be doing over Christmas.

SPEAKER_03 39:48

Sauron.

SPEAKER_00 39:49

Sauron, yeah. Sauron. I think he's like Sauron. I think he's like Sauron. The old CNI. Yes, yes, yeah. So, okay, um so pretty much then it's fundamentally rubbish, and um and another one of your heroes just blown out of the water. Floating smithereens. I'm so sorry. I feel like I feel like these podcasts are turning into a bit of a disaster zone.

SPEAKER_03 40:19

Well, it's alright, because my favourite leader so far is uh Darth Vader and Wonder Woman. They're up there.

SPEAKER_00 40:25

There you go. What can I say? What can I say? Who are we doing next?

SPEAKER_03 40:30

I don't know, I'm very confused. I do know, yeah, I know we've recorded big man.

SPEAKER_00 40:34

No, it's not, no, it's not. We've got one more week before we do the big man. Uh we're doing next week, we're doing Oh, we're doing the Mandalorian next week.

SPEAKER_02 40:47

Yes, we are. God, okay, yeah. So guess what I'm doing?

SPEAKER_00 40:51

Guess what I'm doing when I get back from the when I get back from Zotopia, Zotropolis, whatever it's called tonight, I'll be watching uh Mandalorian uh for the next three days before we record the next episode.

SPEAKER_02 41:01

Without without a break.

SPEAKER_00 41:03

Without a break. Just go straight through. Just go straight through. Cool. Okay, well, there you go. That was Professor X. I feel no more well disposed to him than I did 40 minutes ago.

SPEAKER_03 41:14

I feel quite deflated, to be honest. So whether you're on the bridge or in Charles Xavier's school for gifted youngsters, we'll catch you in the next timeline. Mutants. Bye.

SPEAKER_00 41:29

Bye.