Gamify Business Tavern Tales Episode 24- Chris Dattoli- The Voice Mage

Gamify Business Tavern Tales Episode 24- Chris Dattoli- The Voice Mage and the Misinformation Hydra

Tonight we have a mage at the Tavern — but not the kind who slings fireballs or summons lightning. This one wields something far more subtle and powerful: the voice.

If you've watched anime, played video games, listened to audiobooks, or seen a commercial in the last few years, you may have heard him without ever knowing it.

But Chris Dattoli isn't here tonight just to talk about his credits. He's here because of a monster that's claimed too many aspiring voice actors: The Misinformation Hydra.

The path to becoming a working voice actor is buried under more bad advice than almost any other creative pursuit. Every head of this hydra whispers different lies: "You need a professional studio to start." "Just put up a profile and wait." "Talent is all that matters." "You'll never book without an agent." Aspiring voice actors spend years chasing the wrong quests, burning gold on the wrong gear, and wondering why nothing works — all because no one gave them the real map.

Chris has spent years navigating past the Hydra. He's voiced characters in fighting games and psychological thrillers. He's been the voice behind brands like NFL Network, Disney, Microsoft, and Lowes. In 2024, he won a Voice Arts Award from the Society of Voice Arts and Sciences. And here's the part that matters for this Tavern: he's been rolling dice for over twenty years — so he speaks our language.

Tonight, he shares the BUSINESS of voice acting — not just the craft — so creative entrepreneurs can see what it really takes to build a career with your voice.

🎲 Business is an adventure. Don't be an NPC.

Connect with Chris Dattoli: 🌐 http://dattolivoiceovers.com/ 💼 https://www.linkedin.com/in/christopher-dattoli-78940495/ 📺 https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCiiGP8ajZpWyLZFmZA_XMBQ 📘 https://www.facebook.com/dattolivoiceovers 📸 https://www.instagram.com/chrisdattolivo/ 🐦 https://www.twitter.com/chrisdattolivo 🎵 https://www.tiktok.com/@chrisdattolivo

Connect with Paul Pape: 🌐 https://gamifybusiness.com 🔗 https://linkedin.com/in/paulpape

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome, fellow adventurer, to Gamify Business Tavern Tales, a place to discover the roads less traveled on your creative journey. Welcome back to the Tavern, fellow adventurers. I'm Paul Pape, your barkeep and game master. So tonight we have a mage at the Tavern, but not the kind who slings fireballs and summons lightning. This one wields something far more subtle and powerful: the voice. Chris DeToli is a voice mage. If you've watched anime, played video games, listened to audiobooks, or seen a commercial in the last few years, you may have heard him without even knowing it. He's voice characters in fighting games and psychological thrillers. He's been the voice behind brands like NFL Network, Disney, Microsoft, and Lowe's. In 2024, he won a Voice Arts Award from the Society of Voice Arts and Sciences. And here's the part that matters for this tavern. He's been rolling dice for over 20 years, so he speaks our language. But Chris isn't here tonight to just talk about his credits. He's here because of a monster that's claimed too many aspiring voice actors. The Misinformation Hydra. You see, the path to becoming a working voice actor is buried under more bad advice than almost any other creative pursuit. Every head of this hydra whispers a different lie. You need a professional studio to start. Just put up a profile and wait. Talent is all that matters. You'll never book without an agent. Aspiring voice actors spend years chasing the wrong quests, burning gold on the wrong gear, and wondering why nothing works. All because no one gave them the real map. Chris has spent years navigating past the Hydra. He's built a sustainable creative business in one of the most competitive arenas imaginable. And now he wants to do something most successful voice actors don't bother with. Tell the truth about how it actually works. So tonight he's here to share the business of voice acting, not just the craft, so creative entrepreneurs can see what it really takes to build a career with your voice. Chris, welcome to the tavern. What's the worst piece of advice the Hydra ever tried to feed you?

SPEAKER_00 2:04

Well, first of all, thank you so much for having me. I'm honored to be here and share my knowledge on the battle in this Hydra. Worst information I ever got from that Hydra was uh you can make a demo immediately. You don't need, or better yet, you can make your own demo. Uh I actually am very embarrassed to admit I've done that. Uh it was actually, I made it and asked a bunch of professionals who've been in the industry for like 20, 30 years. I'm like, hey, what do you think? And they're like, uh no. Um I was actually reached out by several producers. One of them was actually a producer of The Simpsons, actually reached out to me and goes, Listen, um, it just so happened someone played this demo. I thought it was the worst thing in the world, and I wanted to tell you how horrible it is. But I want you to know, you do have some talent. Whatever you did, although the audio quality was absolutely horrible, you committed 100%. And I admire that. So I think you just need to like get coaching. And I said, Wow, that's amazing advice. I'm gonna do that. And a lot of people say, Oh, you know, you can just make a demo starting off, like you take one or two classes, you're good to go. Or people will run, uh, they'll bring you on a side quest, and there'll be one artificer who's gonna say, I'll make you something called a demo reel, a demo reel. So, or they'll call a demo mill, which they just do nothing but pump out genetic jam genetic demos. And much like how armor should be customized for every knight, a demo should be customized for every voice actor. No one, it's you they'll use the same scripts and they'll mislead you, and then it's literally a copy, paste, repeat. Although sometimes say, like, oh, you know, I'll create unique scripts for you, and they'll do that, and then again, without any proper training, you know, you're left you're left with a spending a lot of gold on a demo, and it's pretty much useless. You know, just like any night, you gotta learn you'll be gifted an enchanted sword, but you gotta know how to swing the sword properly.

SPEAKER_01 4:02

That's otherwise you cut your hand off in that first swing.

SPEAKER_00 4:06

We've all been pull something up.

unknown 4:08

There you go.

SPEAKER_01 4:09

So you've said that there's a plethora of misinformation about becoming a voice actor. So for creative entrepreneurs listening who might be curious about this path or any creative path full of bad advice, what are the biggest lies the misinformation hydra tells an aspiring voice actor? And what have what had you chasing the wrong quests early on?

SPEAKER_00 4:29

Uh well, lately, it seems that everyone is a coach. Nowadays, everyone can say, oh, you know, uh, you know, I've done they've done a lot of work, but they only done a lot of work in a lot of field. Uh lately, uh, a lot of anime for a certain production company. You know, oh, I've done a lot of work that I'm gonna tell you how you could do it. I'm like, well, that's wonderful, but what other work have you done? Like, that's great. Or they'll say, like, hey, I made a million dollars. I made a million gold, you know, going on this one pay-to-play site. I'm gonna tell you how to get a million dollars. And people are like, a million dollars? I want that. And I think, well, how long did it take you to make a million dollars? Like, and what do you give them? Is it sort of like the same copy, paste, repeat information you give them to everyone else? Uh, you know, what's going on? Or better yet, you need to get uh top quality equipment, audio equipment before you even get started. No, you don't. You, you know, much like every voice is unique, every microphone is unique to that person's voice. You know, I could go out and get uh Schenheiser 416, which costs over a grand, but it may not be suited for my voice. I can go get the standard now, which is the Neumann TLM 102 or 103, which costs $1,000 to $2,000. Oh, go get that, Mike, you're good as gold. Well, no, like you have to figure out. I always recommend go to a pay first an hour's worth of a professional studio session and just test out the equipment and see which one is perfect for your voice. That's what I did. Uh, you know, I I I I wish like someone told me that when I got started. Uh I think best advice I ever got from my mentor was I actually, and it was not a mentor for voice acting, it was actually a mentor who taught me how to make armor. He said, You're gonna make a lot of mistakes, and unfortunately, that's how you gain experience because life gives you the test before she gives you the lesson planned. So every F up is a lesson learned, is more experience. And I have a lot of experience.

SPEAKER_01 6:32

I believe that every failure is not a stop, it's a step.

SPEAKER_00 6:35

Exactly. Perfect.

SPEAKER_01 6:36

Well said the easiest way to say it. Yeah. So a lot of people think that voice acting is just about having a good voice and reading a script, but you emphasize the business side, the stuff most people never talk about. What does the business of voice acting actually look like? What are the systems, the marketing, the client relationships that make this a sustainable career and not just a hobby that occasionally pays?

SPEAKER_00 7:00

Absolutely. I may trail off on this because I'm very passionate about this topic. On the business side, I always say the business side and the acting side. I'll talk about the business side. So when you become a voice actor, you essentially you open up your own business. You gotta understand there's a lot of competition out there and there's a lot of misinformation where coaches or even people be like, oh, I'm gonna sell you how to, you know, write cold emails to clients, how to, you know, write uh how to become get a million dollars by joining voices one, two, uh joining uh I don't want to say the voice site, excuse me. Um you know what I will say it. Joining voices.com. You know, I don't like them. So or whatever, you can make a million dollars a lot. I'm like, well, is your voice only worth five bucks? Is your voice really worth? Do you really know like the algorithm? Do you understand the algorithm? Do you understand like anything about like the marketing search engine optimization? Like you gotta constantly now. Um I don't like talking about AI, but I will say AI when the purpose of getting a marketing aspect, it's good for SEO purposes because it's gonna pull the information from your website and help you show up in higher rankings. I actually went to school for marketing and I was actually uh a chief marketing officer at a company before I started voiceover work. So uh helped out a lot. So you wanna you gotta establish an LLC, you gotta know about taxes, what to write off, like what to claim. Um, you gotta know, like, all right, what can I claim? What can I write off of my taxes? Can I write off the video game I purchased or can I write off the class I just took to help me further my education? Um, I'm also a big believer that training is never an expense, it's an investment. Always investing in yourself. So you gotta say, how can I run a business? How do I know the marketing side? You know, what do I exact, what do I say to each individual client? Do I just take a cut a letter, copy, paste it, and send it off? Do I customize it? I'm a big fan of writing every single letter, every single cold call, email or phone call, make it unique. It does take a lot of work, however, your voice is unique, you're unique, you're selling yourself, so make that approach unique. You know, I'll tell you how many times I got emails from people saying, like, oh, you know, oh, so I saw your profile, blah, blah. It's literally the same formula over and over and over again. And I actually attended just because I was curious on this one coach, uh, what his class was. I attended his class, and it's literally this everyone was sending the same exact friggin' email over and over again. And I'm like, all right, you're just you're scamming. You you got the facade of, you know, you make all this money and voiceover work, and or I'm gonna show you the quick way. That's the another misleading thing. The quick way to become a voice actor, you gotta always understand it is a marathon, not a race. Before you even before you even start with the business stuff, I'm gonna focus on the acting thing. Voice acting is exactly that. Acting. Yes, you can have a great voice, and that's a wonderful step. I say, you Paul, you have a wonderful voice. I could see you probably doing uh a lot of voiceover work, but also it's all about harnessing that. You know, if I go into battle and I'm swinging a sword and I take out a few people, they say, like, oh, you could be a great knight. Why don't you go become a knight? Well, let me train. No. Like, I gotta understand the right way to get training, and that's what you should do. Focus on your craft, your cunts, and even when you do it for 10 years, 20 years, you uh get established, you you know, have all a bunch of agents, or you do book a lot of work, you still wanna get training because the market always changes, there's always something new approaching. I'm a big procurer of knowledge. I believe everyone, it's something everyone should pursue. And the second you think you're done learning everything, you're doomed to fail because everything is evolving. I mean, you think 50 years ago, people used to put mercury in their teeth for fillings, and that well, it wasn't a good thing. I remember that that's what really did with my mom, and I remember her dentist office called her and said, Hey, listen, uh, you got mercury in your teeth. We need to, we need to take that out. We got to fix it. Like, well, it was fine back then. I'm like, well, just because it was fine doesn't mean it was safe. It was it worked well.

SPEAKER_01 11:04

Absolutely, absolutely. I love that. It's like talking to myself. This is really weird. You're saying everything that I say when I'm dealing with my clients. It's really fun. So, what is your you mentioned AI, and we're gonna kind of go off script here a little bit and talk about this. One of the things that is becoming very popular is something called a, and I'm gonna call them out, 11 Labs, which you record your voice for them and then they sell it and you don't do any work. You also don't make any money, and then you can't get out of that contract. But what is your take on providing your voice for something? I mean, because obviously the woman who made Siri or the woman who made Alexa can make a bank. Actually, she's not. She's she did not make a bank on that. So maybe not. But you can. I mean, there's opportunity there. So what is your take on supplying your voice? Do you think that that's beneficial or do you think that that can actually harm your career?

SPEAKER_00 11:49

That will without a doubt harm your career. It's not the only thing the only person it's beneficial to is the people who are purchasing it. You know, you make no money off it. Yeah, you make it. I mean, there's times I'm approached to be like, hey, you know, they're looking for an AI training program. Here's $10,000. And I think, well, I could certainly use $10,000, but you can never, and especially in the create in the creative field, whether it's voice acting, on camera acting, uh artistry, whatever, you gotta have a long, you gotta have a long sight. You can't be so short-sighted. Yeah, $10,000 is great, but how much money in my lifetime am I gonna lose? Or um an issue that happened with TikTok. I believe it was Bev Standing. Um, she uh did voiceover work for a company in China, and they actually copied her voice and sold it to TikTok. So for a while, her voice was a voice of TikTok, and she did a lot of work for a I think a I don't know if it was a religious company or another company like that, and they heard a voice saying something pretty bad, and they're like, listen, we're not gonna use you if you if you this is what you're voicing, what's wrong with you? She's like, Well, that that's that's not me. So she actually sued TikTok and won.

unknown 12:57

Good.

SPEAKER_00 12:58

If you notice that like the original voice of TikTok changed, now they have all these like law, bylaws, and legal litigations and everything, and you know, certain NDAs you have to sign. But AI, I mean, I personally hate it. I think it's with greedy companies. And honestly, AI will never be able to replace a human being. I was actually fired from several companies because they used AI. Within three months, I was asked to come back and voice the campaigns.

SPEAKER_01 13:27

Because it's dead. It's a dead, it's a dead thing. Um, one of the most brutal contracts I ever signed was for a company that's got a mouse for a mascot. And um, I was working on the art side of it, but one of the things that they had in their latest contract, and this is why the actors struck and all this fun stuff, is that they owned your likeness.

unknown 13:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:45

I'm like, I'm an artist. You've never even met my likeness. And they're like, no, we own all your social media likenesses, all that, and then we can use it without your permission and without paying you forever. And I was like, uh-uh. I'm not even I'm I'm making things with my hands for you. Like, why are you own my face now? And it's because they need to generate all that. And a lot of actors, voice actors, same thing, have sued to be like, no, I don't, I don't want any of that. But if you want to work for that person, that company, you know, the if you're an actor, especially if you're an uh um like an extra, they bring you in a 3D scan you.

SPEAKER_00 14:15

Yes, yep.

SPEAKER_01 14:16

And then they're yours forever, you know, and they don't have to pay you anything. And it's such it's it's BS, in my opinion, and I sure you would agree with that.

SPEAKER_00 14:24

Yeah, it's it's it's despicable. Um, and I was just gonna go off on a little tangent. I just had a good example, but I lost it for a second. But uh on that on the field of uh AI, um, yeah, I also do on-camera work and modeling as well. Um, I refuse to sign anything with AI, I'm completely against it. Uh and I always make sure, I mean, uh, I'm very fortunate I'm part of uh NAVA, which is a National Association of Voice Actors. They actually uh in the documents they have someone that's called an AI writer. So whenever I work with a new company, I make sure they sign a document saying they cannot use my voice for any type of AI purposes. It's now I'm this isn't verbatim, this is just kind of like the short version of it, but that it protects me. And every single year I work with a company, they sign it. One company I worked with for five years, they were just starting to get a little greedy, and I s and they because I made sure they signed it every single year. He didn't sign it, so I said, I'm pausing all work with you because, oh, well, we pay you this money. I'm like, it doesn't matter. Like, that's like you don't own me. You don't own me. Sorry, a little barking.

SPEAKER_01 15:28

Excellent, you're absolutely right. So you mentioned this earlier. Voice acting is brutally competitive, thousands of people chasing the same few roles. But you've managed to build something sustainable with credits in anime, video games, audiobooks, and major brand commercials. I love how you smear it all around. That's great. What separated you from adventurers who tried and gave up? What did you figure out that others missed?

SPEAKER_00 15:52

Going left. And what I mean by that is one of the, again, one of my uh voiceover mentors and friend, Mark Cashman, he said, uh, when I worked with him for the first time, he said, Chris, everyone who approaches a script, everyone reads it the same way. Everyone's gonna go right. Find a way to go left. It could be something like maybe adding a pause, combining words and saying, This is like that is, that's. Make it a tad more different. Because people who listen to the auditions, they listen to hundreds upon thousands every single day. And if you do something that sounds different, do it correctly and professionally. Don't say like, hey, F you or something like that. You know. Um, although there is actually is a wonderful tool about using the F-word and scraps, I'll tell you later about it. But anyway, uh, you know, find a way to do it right. It's gonna make them go, huh, that's interesting. And they'll kind of, if you make them stop and just pause for just a second or two, that's gonna grab and grab their attention. You already have it in the door. And maybe your voice isn't right for them. That's another thing uh about rejection. People, you know, it's definitely common to get imposter syndrome out there, see people, you know, get all these projects and you're not getting anything. You know, again, it's a marathon, not a race. And you gotta understand, just because you didn't get something doesn't mean you're horrible. It just means, I mean, if you have the right equipment, you invest yourself in training, and um doesn't mean you're horrible. It just means your voice isn't right for them. I mean, I did one voice uh for a big national, I won't say who it is, but it was a big national brand, and uh they were strictly looking for males, and I actually was on the short list, you know, auditioned for them again and never heard back from them. Then I just heard the commercial, uh, so I said, all right, I didn't get it. And then I heard the commercial, I'm like, oh, they chose a female. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 17:44

So somebody went left.

SPEAKER_00 17:46

Exactly. Just because I mean, I I I will do that. I'll sometimes, and that's what else will separate me. If they ask for both English or bilingual talent, I'll just read the English side and be like, you know what, why not? Go ahead. Uh, unless it specifically says, you know, they only want bilingual talent, don't waste their time. If it doesn't say that, I'm like, all right, why not? I'll waste their time a little bit. No, I'm kidding. Uh you know, I'll go like, all right, you know, let me try this, because you never know. I mean, one of the video games I get in, uh, Konsu Fighter, I played the character Khan, um, I actually auditioned for three other characters, and I didn't know their deadlines ended. And I sent it to them, and they actually called me, uh called me the next day, and they said, Chris, listen, uh, excuse me, they emailed me first. They said, Listen, uh, auditions for this ended last week, but we were really like blown away by your audition. Uh, we actually have a secret character coming out that we're just like spitballing. Would you mind auditioning? And I did, and I got it. Nice. And that that was uh in probably one of the best studio uh Cersei and Studios, Conto Five, one of the best projects I worked on. Just and I love working with indie studios too. Um, they're just so more they're a lot more passion. I mean, everyone's passion in the video game field, but they were a lot more, and it's just you know, because they don't have like the big funding behind them. So it it was just incredible working with them, and we had a great time. So I always find a way to go live to separate myself. Um I pay attention to the specs too, but I'll just change it up a little bit. Whenever I read, I always have a lead-in. Uh let's say I'm reading for a uh corporate narration. So I pretend I'm in a I'm in an auditorium, there's thousands of people, and I say, Hey everyone, thank you so much for having me. Appreciate it. Hey, when was the last time you had you checked your faculty over there? Or when was the last time you checked your equipment? When was the last time you serviced it? And just go instead of going like, when was the last time you checked your equipment and serviced it? Right. Just a little lead in. It adds a little human approach to it. And that's that's again why AI won't compete with humans. We add that human approach.

SPEAKER_01 19:48

Yep, because you can add that and add a little bit of spice. And spice is nice, man. Like it's what helps you get seen, like you mentioned before. It's that's that going left, it's that little bit of something extra. Um, I've done a little voiceover work myself, nothing like you, but uh a couple of the auditions that I've done, they're like, where did that voice go? Can you do like variation? I I hate variations. I mean, they're fine, but especially if they're not paying a lot. It's like now we want like 10 different variations on the voice. And I'm like, okay, come on, man. It's like and you know, still didn't get the job, but they're just like, they're I think what they're doing is they're comparing your voice and the the audition tape to everyone else within there. And they are really just looking for the homogenous feel of everyone, not just because you can have a great voice, but you know, if you stand out too much, just like an actor on stage, if you're too good of an actor in a room full of bad actors, you ruin the show because it's it's just too much. And you're like, wow, that guy's really chewing the scenery over there, but he's like, no, he's just really good at this, and no one else is really living up to it. So I get it, I get it. So yeah, excellent. So there's a tension that creative entrepreneurs face. You want to focus on the craft, getting better, doing the work that you love, but you also have to hustle, market yourself, find clients, handle the business. So, how do you balance being an artist and an entrepreneur? When do you put on the voice mage robes and when do you put on the merchant hat?

SPEAKER_00 21:07

So I always kind of keep the merchant hat underneath my hidden armor. And better yet, I keep the voice actor underneath. That's my hidden armor, and the merchant, I'm always there. Because uh this I'm very fortunate I learned again, taking business classes and marketing classes all about time management. I know, all right, I wake up every day at this time, from this time to this time, I work on auditions where I record projects. From this time to this time, I'm emailing potential clients. I'm going to different networking groups or I'm doing this. Oh, I have a project to record here and let me clear space. Or auditions pop up constantly throughout my day. I have clients who are based in Europe and their time zones completely different than mine. So I know, all right, I gotta do this. So I make sure to dedicate certain time to every project. And I'm always thinking, um, and my wife will hate me for this. Oh no, she always hates me for this. I always have a business mindset on. I'm always thinking, like, all right, how can I market myself? How can I do business?

unknown 21:59

There

SPEAKER_00 22:00

Times we um we went to I think Wildwood. We go with Wildwood, New Jersey every year, and there was a um local networking group and there was a radio station there. So I just popped over and I said hello, interested in myself. I'm like, oh, actually, um, we need a voiceover for um a few of our radio commercials. Or have you done something for? I'm like, yeah, I've done broadcasting. You know, I do radio imaging. Like, what can I how can I help you with? And went there and I landed a client. And then my wife's just sitting there looking at me and she's goes, you know, we're on friggin' vacation. You know that, right? So I should say I always keep my business marketing armor underneath. It's uh I'm always saying, even when I go to conventions, there's always I'm like, all right, I'm not gonna walk away unless I have unless I have X amount of clients to follow. And it's all about the big thing is following up. Sometimes we'll reach out to someone, we'll email them once and forget about it. I actually learned this because I'm also a realtor. Uh I also learned this with doing real estate, like you gotta constantly follow up. Maybe once a month, send them an email, twice a month, every holiday, say, hey, happy holiday, you know, happy memorial day, what have you. And just you're always on top of the mind. There was a client I did this for eight years. I did this, and I actually learned it from Mark Scott because he had a very similar experience. Eight years, and then finally he said, Chris, you are very persistent. I actually have a project for you. And I said, Woo-hoo! Eight years, I said, eight years in town, baby. Let's do this.

SPEAKER_01 23:25

I mean, and that's it, it's a necessary evil of the game. And I love the follow-up part, and I like that you mention the holidays and and such like that, because it's not always about pitching, it's just saying staying relevant and staying in the forefront of their minds. Um, I hate when because there's definitely people that have followed that follow up with me, but they're like, hey, I just you know, buy this thing for me. Hey, we're just launched this new thing, buy this thing for me.

SPEAKER_00 23:46

And I'm like, Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 23:48

You know, I'm a human. How about you say hi? Like, how about how's your day going? I would love that, you know. Like, but no, it's it's always the pursuit of the dollar. And I think if you actually take a moment and just do something that's human, you know, just and courteous, that it sticks out more in their mind. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:03

Exactly. And you could always have a little link. What I do is my signature, I got a little link to my demos. I say, hey, follow me on social media, check out my demos here. And you the best way to sell yourself is not to sell yourself, is just to be human and just be, you have to think the long picture. Like, would you want to get this email? Like, if I open, if I sent this email to you, would you open it? Or are you just really trying hard to sell yourself? I'm like, I because people could tell that. I know we want to get the job, and I know automatically we're gonna say, like, oh yeah, I would open this. We're not really thinking with a clear sense. So we have to learn to separate. You gotta take ourselves out and put it in another box. I'm like, all right, here's a townsfolk. If I try to sell the townsfolk bread, you know, I know I grew this bread my whole life. Are they gonna buy it? Even though it's more expensive than the other bread. What, like, what is you have to remember what can make them money? Like, what is so good about you that they would choose you over everyone else? I'm trying to think of the right marketing term, and it's escaping my mind. I guess I need more coffee, but uh or more ale, what have you.

SPEAKER_01 25:09

Too early for ale, man. Coffee's good. Uh actually, I have a book called Quit Selling Your Shit, and it is literally about selling yourself and quit selling your product. Sell the person behind it. Um yeah, you had mentioned about being human and being in in and having that, and there's a word that goes with this called integrity. And the the biggest issue that a lot of people they want to get rich quick, but you're not building. I mean, yeah, we can all get money quickly, but what's what's behind that? It's just not it's nothing, it's vapor. Like you'll get paid, fine, you'll have that money for now, but then there's nothing that's gonna follow that up. Instead of building for get rich quick, you want to build legacy. And so you have to use your integrity for that. And it doesn't pay off right away. But when it does pay off, it pays off in dividends because with integrity, when you go out, especially with your voice acting, or for me, it's it's coaching or building the Santa for nerd stuff that I do. When you do that and you have integrity behind it, then they start to advertise for you and it lessens the burden on you. I mean, you still gotta hustle, don't get me wrong, but word of mouth has always generated more income from me for me than cold calling. Always. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 26:14

Yeah, it's you again like selling, like sell yourselves, quit selling your shit. You know, it's again that human approach. And I just had a thought again, I lost it, I'm sorry. Um, oh uh kind of something I want to backtrack a little bit. I think going back like imposter syndrome, how we uh compare everyone to ourselves, I think all of us get lost in that shiny thing. I mean, I think a number of people who get it who want to get into voice acting, they join because they want to do anime. And hell, that's why I wanted to do it. I mean, so they all think about you know one company and they all want to do that. And uh jumping back and forth a little bit, when they see uh like the Matt Mercers, the Steve Blooms, the Mark Hamels, the Bradley Coopers, we see them at their success, we see them at their best point, their success. We don't see them when they first struggled, like the 10 years it took them to get where they are. Like they've been doing it for 30 years. Well, how many out of those 30 years they probably struggled for 15 or 20 years, and they're just like now enjoying their success, and they deserve that after working so hard. There are very few talent, uh, it is rare, but it does happen that they hit the ground run. I know uh one talent, Gabe Kunda, um, he he was very talented, and he just immediately, because he was signed with a high uh of the high agency, and boom, he's making a lot, which is wonderful, great for him. Like he's killing it in the VO world. And other people, overnight success takes 30 years to achieve. I know one uh one of my mentors, um, she started off doing eight years old, and I think finally when she was in her 40s, she finally like hit it hit it big with a national campaign, then all of a sudden she's booking all these major jobs, and that's the key to success. It's going from A to Z without loss of enthusiasm. And you're gonna have high points, you're gonna have low points, but you just have to never lose a momentum. You can always take a minute and be like, okay, I need to breathe, I need to focus, but you know, don't lose that momentum. And again, going back a little bit about everyone kind of goes for like that one type of thing, the anime, we get lost in that. So we see people like, oh, I see this person booking like anime job left and right, left and right, they must be killing it. And to understand the back end, I'm like, well, I know for a fact how much money they're making. And you know what? I rather do the corporate narration for one hour that pays me $2,500 versus screaming for four hours and get maybe $250 to $300. Now, these are just like, I don't know if like the real real price is what they pay. I have worked for anime companies, um, and I don't want to like them to kick me in the head or anything or do an assassin to come kill me. But you know, I there's so such an open world. I always say find what you're passionate about. Um, in the very beginning, when I started, they say find what you're passionate about, make a demo with that, and also have a commercial demo because a commercial is a lot of the work you get. Let's say you want to do animation, make an animation demo and a commercial demo. If you want to do video games, make a video game demo and make a uh commercial demo. Now I think maybe the games have changed to where you can just focus on I want to have a video game demo or animation demo, but you also have to read. When you submit to agencies, they say submit your commercial demo, and this is the only type of demo we accept. Well, then you have to worry about that. Sorry, I jump around. No, no, it's fine. It's fine.

SPEAKER_01 29:36

So no, it's all good, it's all great advice. And um, I literally have an expression with this business, which is quit trying to chase fame and fortune, ride the pat the dragon of passion, and fame and fortune will gather behind you. So you're absolutely right.

SPEAKER_00 29:48

So it will come. It's gonna take time because if it didn't take time, everyone would do it. Every single person would be an actor. And versus like in uh I know in America we view at we like view actors a little differently because we view it as like a hobby or you know, side passion. Like, all right, what what diner do you really work at? Whereas in other countries, like let's say England, they it's an actual profession, like theater, like the same thing as like an electrician or a contractor. So we we you know, so we always we have that against us a little bit of the stereotype, but you know, um, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:28

Yeah, but it's good that you're trying to break the starving artist mold by teaching people how to get out of it, which is my whole mission in life here is to get more people to understand that you don't need to be a starving artist, you don't need to be dead to make money. All of this is possible. You just have to have the right rules. So I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 30:43

Exactly. And I know a lot of successful voice actors who actually have a nine to five, you know, and they do that and they also do voiceover work and they're killing it in both fields. That's good, that's good.

SPEAKER_01 30:54

Nothing wrong, and there's nothing wrong with that. Um, some people are very adamant. I don't want a backup plan. I don't want to do it's it's either high this way or no way, and that's fine. But for other people who need stability, like for me, I'm I'm that person. I'm the person who's like, nope, this is what I'm doing. But I also have a wife who has a real job. So there's like a little bounce. Now, granted, she's a costume designer in theater, so it's not like she's rolling in it as well, but there's steady income there that allows me to really kind of go out there and pursue the weird things that I'm trying to pursue. So it's good to have that. And if you don't have the spouse who wants to carry you and you have the lean times, then it's good to have something that you can fall back on because there will always, if you're passionate about it, there will always be time. Absolutely something that a lot of people, they're like, well, if I'm working 95, I'm exhausted by the end of the day. Well, you don't want to do it because you're not passionate, but you'll pick up your phone and you'll doom scroll for four hours. Yes. If you put that time into recording your voice or to doing to writing a book or to painting, you'd be more successful than you think. Yeah. Excellent. So for someone who's listening who thought about voice acting or any creative pursuit that feels mysterious and out of reach, what would you tell them? What's the real first step? Not the mythical one the Hydra sells, and how do they know if this is a quest worth pursuing?

SPEAKER_00 32:11

All right. You have to really think to yourself like, do I really wanna do this the rest of my life? Do I wanna, you gotta do some research. I'm big on doing research. Find out the good, the bad, the ugly, and find out, all right, am I able to deal with the highs and lows? Am I able to deal with like the imposter syndrome? Am I able to deal knowing the fact that I'm gonna essentially be working 70 hours a week and only get paid for 30 hours myself? But can I also realize like I can bring characters to life? I can inspire so many people. If you could do that, then go for it. I know for a fact, um, because as I mentioned before, uh I was the chief marketing officer at a very big company, and then one day I up and quit and pursue voice acting, which was the best and worst mistake I ever made in my life because I was a single dad with two daughters, living in a two-bedroom apartment, thinking, oh crap, what did I do? But I just kept at it and just worked my tail off and you know, got to where I am today. And I have a long way to go. Like I'm I'm I'm never done. Like, I I there's some so many projects I want to do, so much, you know, more not even so much like chasing the riches, there's some more like passion things I want to do. Um, but you know, looking back, I'm like, man, that was a bad idea, but it was also a good idea. You know, always have that backup plan. And just when I sat down and thought, like, I know for a fact there was nothing else I wanted to do. You know, I wanted to, this is a little sadistic, but I wanted to make people cry. Like, I wanted to be that villain, or I wanted to be that hero that died, or someone that did a really emotional thing. I remember uh, I actually still have it to this day, it was an old school video game that originally came out on Sega Saturn. It was called Luna Silver's Silver Star Story and Lunar Eternal Blue, Eternal Blue. They brought it over to PS5, or excuse me, PlayStation, and now they just uh redid it a whole new voice cast on uh that's released on Steam. But I remember sitting there and there was a scene where like one of the characters were singing, and there was something about it that just kind of like inspired me as a kid. I'm like, that's really cool. Like I felt like really connected, and that's what I want to do. I want to make that connection with people to feel like that when they're playing a video game, they're not really playing a video game, they're entering that world. Same thing with I d when I DM, like we're not sitting here playing DM, you're entering my world. And if I could make you just for a minute or two just forget about the real world and escape, I've done my job. And there's been a few times I have done that, that I actually had a few people reach out to me, and I'm like, well, I'm I'm happy you enjoyed it. Like, I'm glad. So a little something like I want to make people cry, but you know.

SPEAKER_01 34:55

But that is a wonderful segue to our next question, which is you've been playing DD for over 20 years. Has the game taught you anything about building a creative career? Are there any parallels between navigating a campaign and navigating the voice acting industry?

SPEAKER_00 35:11

Absolutely. There's a lot of parallels. It's being creative, you know. You have a guideline for a character, you have like, but everything's unique. You roll for your charisma, you roll for your strength, and you can be dealt with certain bonuses or certain disabilities. And it's up to you to make the best of those disabilities. Let's say you have a negative one to charisma or you have a negative one to strength, you know, if you can take that and own it and improve on that, you've done a great job. I mean, DD, without a doubt, inspired me to get into the theatrics and the acting field because I will put on a little performance for everyone, even when I wasn't DM, when I was just a player, you know, just kind of you know, inspiring people around me and like would get lost to live and having a good time. I think I would think, you know what, I could I could kind of do this for a living. You know, I could see myself doing this. You know, like I said, you get a base guideline, but it's up to you to make it creative. Much like in life, we have a base guideline, a little template, but it's up to you to style the shop. Like it may say, hey, you got you're playing a uh elf with white hair, blue eyes. Like, no, I want purple eyes. Like I changed it. You know, I want to change it up a little bit. And no, I want to change his outfit too. Just because he's a noble doesn't mean he has to dress noble. Maybe he's in incognito or something like that.

SPEAKER_01 36:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:26

Excellent. Excellent.

SPEAKER_01 36:27

And it's it's absolutely true. I think that there is uh like my background is theater. And so like theater has helped me and helped so many other people. I used to be a professor as well, teaching theater, and the skill sets that you learn, the soft soft skills that you learn within theater, within acting, within the entertainment world, translates to everything. I mean, it's it's it's got so much depth to it. And it's I I encourage anybody to go do some part of theater to get do crew, do assistance statement. I don't care. Get in there and understand like what it is that you're trying to do here, because there's humanity building within it. And I think it really helps to evolve you as a human to understand how this machine actually works. And you get some skills that you would be surprised how well they they can help you in other places.

SPEAKER_00 37:12

Yeah, it was actually my mentor, Mark Cashman, he said, Chris, you know what? If you absolutely because I mentioned to him, like, hey, you know, I got an audition for this theater project. He, before I even put the T on theater project, he jumped up and goes, That is amazing, that is incredible. He was like so happy for me. I'm like, well, you know, like it's just like a lot of time, the pay's not good. He goes, Chris, I'm gonna stop you right there. Theater is probably one of the best kind of acting you could do, it would help you tremendously in voice acting, on-camera work, everything, because you feed off the energy of the audience. You're playing off one another. It's happy reading scripts, but improv. You get to make your own world. Go ahead and like do it. Who cares about the money? Just do it, just do it. And I did, and it was probably one of the best experiences I've had. And, you know, he was like, and I come from I come from doing theater too. I was a theater kid growing up. Uh, and just I'm like, wow, Mark, you were you were right. He goes, see? He goes, and then we did um a practice script together, and he goes, You do I could tell, you're improving.

unknown 38:15

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 38:15

Just from doing theater. I'm like, I'm like, I'm just I'm like, it's just I didn't I didn't say it was easy. I'm like, well, this is like kind of natural. He goes, well, then there you go. He goes, it's natural to you. You know, you're not, you know, you're of course we have to make a character because every single script they always say keep it conversational. Like if you talk to someone, not announcery is always the same thing. Okay, sure. First line the script. Introducing. I'm like, I would never say that to my best friend, introducing. So I go, introducing? Something like, you know, something like make it more relatable. Like, you know, I am talking about best friend. Um another actually tip, if I may interject and put in a tip, what I do is uh I took him down for privacy reasons, but I keep five photos in my studio. One is of my wife, one is my best friend, one's my mom, one's my kids, and the other one is someone I hate with an absolute passion. And the reason of that is the way I talk to my mom is different than the way I talk to my wife. The way I talk to my kids is completely different than the way I talk to someone whom I hate. And whenever I read a script, it pulls out different emotions. So I do that like, okay, and I'll look at the script. It take it does take some time till I actually like quickly read a script, memorize it, and break it down, but it will become natural. You know, a point where I'll look at it and be like, uh, hey, you know, Chris, or hey, Phil, you know what, buddy? We're gonna try this. I'm like, Mom, listen, you gotta try this. Just something like, and three different takes right there, just kind of like pulling out different emotions.

SPEAKER_01 39:45

That's great advice. It's literally great advice. And the thing is, is people are like, Well, I'm not gonna be a voice actor. No, that's the kind of advice that you use when you're doing reaching out to people for work. Exactly. It's like who are who are you talking to? Because one, it should never be introducing it's never that. When you get on, especially if you get on a call with somebody, it should always be who are you trying to talk to? And having even if you don't know who that person is, having a photo, like we talk when I do you know acting on the camera with with people, it's like put up an actor that you love. So you're staring at that camera and you're like really getting into it, and you're it is that's the person you want to talk to, not this voidless little lens that sits on the camera. And it's it's this it's the same thing. It's like understanding it. So when you're pitching yourself to somebody else, you don't want to be acting like a pitch man, you want to be talking like a friend, you know, or talking to your mom. And age makes a huge difference. When I'm working with a client who's in their 60s or 70s, that approach is way different because I'm younger than them. Whereas if I'm talking to somebody who's in their 20s and 30s, it's a completely different approach as well. And so that's that's beautiful advice. And I don't think anybody's ever given that advice like that. So I appreciate it. That's a one for the keeper. That's a keeper is.

SPEAKER_00 40:46

Yeah, no problem, no problem. That's right. Awesome uh secret I learned along the roads.

SPEAKER_01 40:50

Excellent. So if somebody wanted to reach out to you for voice acting help or for the business side of it, where can they reach you?

SPEAKER_00 40:56

So they can just go on my website, which is Dotolyvoiceovers.com, last nade spelled D-A-T-T-O-L-I, or on all my social media platforms, it's at Chris DeToly V O. I made them all the same. It's also like a little business trick that I learned because a lot of people have like, oh I'm Fighter Kitty Power27 on TikTok or um John the Man on you know Instagram. I make them all the same. It's all the same picture. You know, me pointing them at Mike like I'm an idiot. Just just like that.

SPEAKER_01 41:26

Which was just mine's mine's the same, but it's like I was Paul Pape Designs for 20 years, and that's when social media started. And I'm like, I've been there. They're like, well, now you're doing gamify. I'm like, I'm still Paul Pape Designs. You'll find me. This is part of who I am, but if I switched it up at this point, you're losing momentum. So if you've got one that you've been holding on to for a long time, don't worry about switching it up and creating a new one. Build your brand within your brand.

SPEAKER_00 41:48

Exactly. Yeah. So that's where everyone can find me. And you know what? Um, if anyone needs any advice, I'm I love helping people out, especially in the voice acting field, because I'm so passionate. I just hate seeing people get screwed. Um, you know, I I hate to see people who claim their coaches get ahead by just scamming people off and just under the facade and they can make a million dollars. I mean, you know, yeah, but maybe in like over the course of 20 years you could do that. You know, if you've been doing it for 10 years, okay, so maybe you made a million dollars. You had one big job, or you had, you know, uh over the last 10 years, something like that. So it's very or it's also like I'm a big fan of working smarter, not harder. There are people, you know, who say on certain websites where you get five dollars or voices.com, like the jobs pay shit, and they're like, oh, I'm doing so many jobs, and I'm thinking, like, I don't want to work that hard. Correct. Like, you know, I remember my dad being an electrician, um, just retired this year, and he would like he would say the jobs that were this amount, he would say no and do other jobs. I'm like, well, why? Money's money. He's like, I don't want to work that hard. Or he would say, like, I don't work for free. Very old school Italian, man. I don't work for free. And this is why. After our balance, after I take all the expenses of getting there, gas, buying the equipment, my profit is very little. Here's the profit I'm making, maybe 30 bucks. Oh.

SPEAKER_01 43:21

No, your time's worth more. Time is the one commodity that is the most priceless. You know, it doesn't matter what your hourly rate is, your your time, because it's it's finite and it's unknown. And so to give up your time to do something for pittance, just because, and then you feel like you're hustling. I mean, if you're building a reel, if you're trying to get into that, I mean, sure, take some of that work. That's that's fine. Take it here and there and look at it as like an education thing. When you did theater, you said, All right, I got five hundred bucks for spending six weeks doing the show. That's you're paying for education. You're getting paid a little bit, but you're learning a lot. And if you're not learning, then you're doing it wrong.

SPEAKER_00 43:56

Exactly. That's the perfect thing. Like, yeah, I'm not saying don't do it, but like if you're gonna learn Something, then it's worth it.

SPEAKER_01 44:01

Yeah, yeah. But I mean, it's the same thing with me. I mean, I've been in this industry for over 20 years. And it's like if somebody comes up and they're like, hey, I want something for 40 bucks, I'm like, find somebody else. I'll give you some suggestions. I'm happy to do that, but it's not worth my time. And I mean, it's it's a good place to be in. When you're starting out, you can't be that picky. You can try, but there's gonna be some issues. But you know, once you get to a point where you can be more genuine to who you are, you can follow your own passion and be honest with who you are, have that integrity that we talked about earlier, then that's gonna allow you to one, charge a lot more. I have found that when I started charging more, my clientele got better, which I'm sure you've noticed as well. If you're doing the $5 gigs or whatever, it's they're horrible bosses. Horrible. And so, but when I'm when you're charging, you start adding some zeros to the back of that, then your clients, because it's got to hurt them a little bit, and then they're like, I'm invested, and now I I really want to know who you are. I want to really get to behind it. And that's again, what goes back to quit selling your shit, so yourself have that integrity.

unknown 44:58

Excellent.

SPEAKER_01 44:59

So that fellow adventurers is what it sounds like when a voice mage shares the real map. I want to thank Chris for pulling up a chair tonight and doing something most successful creatives don't bother with telling the truth. Not the polished version of how to make it, but the actual business, the real systems, the honest path through a forest full of misinformation. Thank you, announcements there. So here's what I want you to take for from tonight. Every creative pursuit has its own misinformation hydra. Voice acting, photography, design, illustration, it does not matter. There's always a monster whispering bad advice, selling shortcuts that don't work, and convinced talented people to chase the wrong quests. The antidote is finding someone who's actually walked the path and is willing to tell you what really worked. Chris is one of those people. And if his story resonated with you, whether you're interested in voice acting or just inspired by someone who's built a sustainable creative career, check out his work at the Tolyvoiceovers.com. I'll have the link in the show notes. So until next time, remember business is an adventure. Don't be an NPC. Thank you, Chris.

SPEAKER_00 46:08

Thank you.