Billy Sammons- Why Cold Outreach Doesn't Work for Creatives

Why does cold outreach feel so exhausting, and why does it rarely bring in the clients creative entrepreneurs actually need? Billy Sammons tried the hustle-harder approach, chasing leads and grinding through cold emails, until one small act of generosity changed his entire business.

In this episode of Gamify Business Tavern Tales, host Paul Pape sits down with Billy, a Village Bard who used to run with the Lone Wolf, the creature convinced that collaboration is weakness and that real success means hunting alone. Billy made a free video for a local brewery, not a pitch, just a gift, and that single act turned into referrals, then into a framework he calls Live Local Warm Marketing. Generosity creates gravity. Instead of chasing clients, Billy built a village, becoming so valuable to his community that opportunities started finding him instead.

This conversation explores why the cold outreach playbook feels so broken for creative minds, what it actually looks like to build a village instead of a hunting ground, and how giving first pulls opportunities toward you instead of pushing them away. If you've been grinding cold outreach and getting nowhere, this episode is for you.

🍺 CONNECT WITH BILLY:
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📚 PAUL'S BOOKS:
 The Creative Player's Handbook to Business- https://gamifybusiness.com/handbook
The Creative Player's Workbook- https://gamifybusiness.com/workbook
The Game Master's Guide to Business- https://gamifybusiness.com/game-masters-guide
Quit Selling Your Shit!- https://gamifybusiness.com/quit-selling
The Bard's Guide to Storycraft- https://gamifybusiness.com/storycraft

Business is an adventure. Don't be an NPC.

Transcript

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SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome, fellow adventurer, to Gamify Business Tavern Tales, a place to discover the roads less traveled on your creative journey. Welcome back to the Tavern, fellow adventurers. I'm Paul Pape, your barkeep and game master. Some adventurers hunt. They chase leads through frozen territory, sending cold emails into the void, hoping something sticks. Tonight's guest builds fires instead and lets the warmth draw people in. But before we talk about warmth, we need to talk about why so many creative entrepreneurs are freezing in the first place. The lone wolf. You see, this creature is cursed to hunt alone. It prowls the wilderness, convinced that collaboration is weakness, that needing others means that you're not good enough, that real success means doing it all yourself. The lone wolf chases prey it can never quite catch, starving, surrounded by abundance, always one failed hunt away from collapse. The conventional wisdom feeds this beast. Hustle harder, send more emails, run more ads, grind until something breaks through. And so creative entrepreneurs follow the lone wolf into isolation, exhausted, desperate, wondering why cold outreach feels so soul draining. But what if it feels terrible because it's actually broken? What if there's a completely different game, one where opportunities find you instead of you hunting them down? Billy Salmons tried the lone wolf approach, but then he stopped, and his business took off. It started with a video he made for a local brewery. Not a pitch, not a transaction, but just a gift. Something to help them succeed. He had no idea that single act would become his entire marketing strategy. That video turned into referrals. Those referrals turn into a framework he now calls a live local war marketing. Generosity creates gravity. Now that's not just a bumper sticker. It's how Billy built his business. Stop chasing clients and start serving your village. Become so valuable to your community that opportunities come looking for you. Tonight he's here to share why the lone wolf always starves, what it actually looks like to build a village, and how creative entrepreneurs can stop hunting and start belonging. Billy, welcome to the tavern. So when did you finally stop running with the lone wolf?

SPEAKER_00 2:20

Very early on. Very like the first like two weeks, three weeks, I did like some cold lead stuff, and it just didn't feel good, man. You start door knocking and people like get off my front porch, that kind of stuff. You start cold calling, and you're like, why are you bugging me during dinner? And you're like, this is stupid. I don't, this is this is not me. This isn't fun. I don't want to learn how to talk people into stuff. Like, it's just awful. And then, like you said, like I just started meeting some people in the community, and I'm like, hey, I really want to see you do well. What can I do to help? And it was just like a natural fix. I don't know, it just kind of happened. You're like, this feels better, this feels good, this is how I want to run my business as a pillar in the community, not as somebody who runs around and knocks on doors at random times and days. Like it just was better that way. Awesome, awesome.

SPEAKER_01 3:02

So you made that video for a local brewery, not as a marketing strategy, but just to help them out. And it became your main referral source. So can you walk me through that moment when you realized that generosity was doing what cold outreach never could? And what finally clicked for you?

SPEAKER_00 3:19

So when did I notice it? So I originally I started it too, partly because I wanted my audience to be like, hey, they're here and draw them to that way. But after you do a few of these, and then the business owners themselves are like, hey, I want to do something for you. I've got some leads, I got some things. You're like, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. I should stop like trying to all these vanity metrics and stop trying to like get the hits and the likes and stuff, which you preach about very frequently too. I've heard you. And then I'm like, I need to start focusing on them. They have big audiences, they're a big part of our community. I want them to see do well. And so I kind of shifted it to focusing on what they need, how can I give to them? And then everything kind of started happening naturally. I stopped, I started like kind of forgetting about how many likes I'm getting and how many comments and how many things. And I started saying, like, what do you need? And it clicked. Like, as you said, like it just clicked, like, this is the way to do it. I need to know 20 people that run businesses or 30 people that know businesses, not 3,000 people who kind of are into my content or kind of in amount of content. I need to know them better because you know it's it's it's the village. And you talk about that pretty frequently in your content too. Like just being the one of the main centers, the town hall in your village is way more important than being the jester that knows everybody else. Like it's one role is way more important than the other role.

SPEAKER_01 4:39

Absolutely, absolutely. And one thing that I don't think a lot of people recognize, especially, especially entrepreneurs, because they approach businesses trying to appeal to everyone when they should be niching down and appealing to the people who are most likely to buy their product, is that once you get over that hump, that that idea that you don't need to serve everyone, but you need to serve a smaller community, the shackles come off. The expectation that society places on you go away. Like I post to social media all the time. And if you look at my numbers, I average 20 to maybe 100 people looking at my my posts. I don't care. So it it's not that's not the point. If I reach 20 people and you're watching my stuff, so if you watch watch it, I've reached somebody who it matters to. Rather than trying to be so generic that it gives me a thumbs up for all these other people. I I don't care about the thumbs up. It's not that's not what I'm after. Because unfortunately, likes do not equal dollars.

SPEAKER_00 5:35

So I mean they're called vanity metrics for a reason, right? Because vanity that we yeah, that's why they call them vanity metrics. If you haven't stopped and thought about it, yeah, it makes sense. Absolutely. They don't call them humble market metrics, do they? I wish they would.

SPEAKER_01 5:49

I want those metrics. I want the humble metrics. I want those metrics. Yeah. So you teach live local warm marketing. So most creative entrepreneurs are taught the opposite: grind the cold outreach, run the ads, chase the leads. What's actually broken about the cold approach, especially for creatives who are already feeling uncomfortable with selling?

SPEAKER_00 6:09

It's the it's the finiteness of it, right? Like you get 30 leads that you just paid for and you can bug those 30 people. Um, and then after that, then what? Then your business can only grow this much. Like this is it. This is the box that this third party or that this whatever puts you in. As long as you keep paying me this much, I'll give you these many people, and then that's it. That's the barriers. But the infinite part of referral marketing is like you just go out there and meet more people, and your business will continue to grow, and you'll get more opportunities, and you'll get more things happening for you and for your community. Um, and that's the biggest thing that people don't overlook. They're like, oh, I need to sell stuff right now. Cool, sell 20, but what if uh like in three or five years you knew 200, 300, 400? And then, you know, I always, when I was talking to people about these, and I try to go out in groups and talk about it, I'm like, think about who's really crushing it in your office or with your company or whatever. It's not the person making 200 cold calls a day, I guarantee you that. It's the person in the back of the room that's got a big Rolodex of all these people that they've met over the years, and then they the leads just come to them because they know everybody. And so, why would you want to be the person that grinds it out? Why wouldn't you look at these systems about referrals and focus on business owners and focus on people that are actually in up your business and be that person that sits in the back and has leads coming your way earlier in your career, not just wait till you make 7,422 cold calls. Let's do it now, let's just start making that focus, you know?

SPEAKER_01 7:29

Absolutely, absolutely. And I think what a lot of people are missing is that oh man, I hate when that happens. Like train of thought just whoop right out the door there. But yeah, uh, you were talking about uh about this cold call and relationships. And I think what we're missing a lot is that we refuse to create relationships. When we are going through and cold calling, I always feel like I'm forcing someone to want what I'm selling. And I'm like, I don't I don't want to be in that position of someone forcing me to buy something just so I'll get, you know, like I have people come, like kids come up and knock on my door and they want to sell me cookies, or I hate that thing. So they sell me cookies or they sell me chocolate bars or I want to help their sports team. And it's like I feel so obligated because I'm standing there and they're in my home. And I'm like, I don't want, I don't need any more cookies. Look at me, I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm cookie, I don't need cookies. But I feel obligated because they're they're out there forcing it on me. They're like, take it, take it. And I'm like cute. Right. You know, like I don't I don't want to do this anymore. So why would I want to shove that onto someone else, some random person? If I can't make a genuine connection with them, I don't have any any business doing business with them. And I think you feel the same way, or at least that's absolutely that's what your appearance is is is saying, is that it's not about you know, the cold calling is you know, it's it's mass marketing, but we're not like I love to use the analogy of if you had a small business 60, 70 years ago and a million people showed up, it would destroy your business. Whereas, you know, you want consistently 30 to 100 people, that's it. And that's gonna keep your business going forever. And if you, like you said, the guy with the role decks, if you're the guy who makes an actual human connection with somebody, you don't have to advertise anymore because those people are like, oh, I got a guy, I got a guy, I got I know this person, I know this company that will take care of us. And why do you know? Well, because they took care of me and they actually treated me as a person and not a number. And I think that's something that's gets so overlooked these days because we're all about vanity metrics and this million people, the million, you know, millions and millions and millions. It's like I don't I don't need a million, I can't do that kind of work myself, you know. Like I'd I'd die if a million people showed up my shop. I don't know what to do with this. They're like, take your turn because I've only got so much time in my in my life. And even if I had a huge team, it'd be the same thing. Because once you get to a point like Amazon, like don't get me wrong, I shop at Amazon a lot, like everybody else does, but I know if they screw up, there's no chance in hell that they know who I am and that I'll get any kind of personal, you know, and they're like, nah, just whatever, we don't care. You're just you're just another number, and I hate that, especially in the creative arts, because creativity requires this connection between people. And I think that that's that's really the heart of it. And that's the heart of what you're trying to get to. And I hope our listeners are taking this away. Yeah. All right, so you've talked about a boutique owner who started making videos with neighboring businesses and became a referral hub for her whole community. For a creative entrepreneur listening, a photographer, a designer, or maker, what does that actually look like in practice? How do they start building their own village?

SPEAKER_00 10:40

Oh, okay. So you're more of a B2B. So, like, if let's say you're a business owner, right? So we started the conversation off as like in the sales and so forth industry. So, business owners, this also really works. The example you gave, um, yeah, is a boutique owner that I knew, and I did the commercial for her because like she was part of the community and it was awesome. And she's like, I love this. This was a lot of fun. She's like, What I'm gonna do is I'm gonna go to the other businesses on my same street, because there was a whole row of them. I'm gonna go down and do the same thing and meet all the owners because I don't know anybody on my street right now. And so she did the same thing and she went and did all the different owners, and now she knows the owners. And so, you know, when somebody's in the restaurant, they're like, Oh, I really like it down here. Like, oh, you need to go down and check the boutique owner because she's got all that cool stuff down there. I met her, I know her. Same thing happens. Like, it she gets people sent her way that she wouldn't have otherwise, and it didn't cost her a nickel. It didn't cost a nickel. That's the best part about you know the referral marketing is that it's any budget, any budget works. And so now she gets 20, 30 more people every month or so coming her way, and she had a lot of fun, and now she knows the business owners, and now she's got more connections and stuff too, and she sends people their way. People stop in to the BT owner, like, oh, this is really cool. I need uh ski and rentals. You're like, cool, go three doors down, tell Fred I sent you. And it just she has that authority now, too. Like when you stop in, and it's just everybody won in that scenario. So it's not just for sales as a business owner. Tag up with other local business owners in your own community. As long as you align and you have the same ideals and the same goals, um, stop in and see them. Do some networking and do some things with them too. You're again, you're not the solo the lone wolf like you referenced in the beginning. You're not all these local business owners, like when you you're your teammates, you're you're all it's a tough and entrepreneurship's a team sport. It's not easy. And if you can get some more allies, even if there are other businesses in your neighborhood, you know, be open-minded. Start doing some collaborations and stuff with them because you're all in this together. And if if somebody doesn't need your product, you can send them there. And if somebody doesn't need that uh their product, they'll send you your way too. And it it's it can work on so many different levels. That's the beauty of it. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 12:37

And I I think that there are so many lone wolves working next to other lone wolves. It is that if you just literally went, we should team up, you would just say, Oh yeah, we should. It would make it a huge difference. It but we feel like and and I think it's it's it's because we are it it is it's taught. It's basically we see this, you're in it in the education of it, is that you need to wear all the hats, you know. Oh, I wear 50 hats in my business. I gotta do all the work myself. And it's like the reality is this no. My other business, my Santa for nerds business, is referral only. I have never spent an a dollar on advertising in 20 years. Isn't that beauty? It's it's great because what I did is I did my best work and then I just helped people out, and and I gave away a lot of I gave away probably too much, is what I would feel. But at the same time, you know, sometimes I like calling like education fees or it's advertising or whatever. It's like sometimes the free is not necessarily free, you're just not getting money for it. You are getting something for it. And we just have to really re-redefine how we think about that. It's really interesting. So you mentioned that creatives think outside the box, they see patterns and they want to make their marketing unique and their own. How does warm marketing fit creative minds better than the traditional hustle harder playbook? And what makes this approach actually sustainable for people who hate feeling salesy?

SPEAKER_00 14:02

Mmm, you don't love these questions. I love this. So it's the give. The give is the creative. You just actually said it and then asked the question. I love how you set that up nicely. It's the give. And that's the thing that I always try to teach entrepreneurs. Listen, so there's something that you have that other people need, pain points for other people that you want to connect with, and that is your give. And the more creative you can make be with your give, the better you feel, right? I did videos because I knew how to do videos. I knew that local businesses in my area needed more attention, they needed more promotion. I got pretty good at it. I wasn't like an expert, but I was good enough that they got more attention. And so that was my give. And I can get really creative with it. I can say, listen, we're gonna do this video, we're gonna do it like this. Or if it's a business that the person who owns it's very bubbly, like, all right, cool, we're gonna feature her more in this video. Like, you really have a lot of room to make my give stretch and and do more. And we talked earlier about the infinite, like it is really infinite. Once I do this little commercial with a business owner, I have so many other opportunities to use that content and to get it out there to people that really actually care about it. It's not just another ad. They want to know who that local business owner is and they want to meet them. And so you have so many different ways to put it out there in social media. You can put it in DMs, you can put it in YouTube, you can put it in emails, and people won't turn it away. They won't say, Oh, yeah, you advertise to me too much. No, because you're introducing them to the local food truck. They're like, that was really cool. Who else do you know? It it just attracts people, it just brings people in. And so the creatives, once you find your give, you get energized. It's positive, you're making an impact, and you can just do it indefinitely and it won't ever stop because you can just see it and feel it. And I always, oh, the other thing I always talk about is the fact that there's days that you just don't feel like doing stuff, but you know that by giving and doing things for others, that you gotta get up and do it, right? It's not about you anymore. It's it's about, you know, if I don't get three more people through the door of the local boutique, it's on me. It really isn't. But I feel that way. Like it's on me. I need to do something to help them out. And so you get that extra motivation on the days you don't feel like doing it. And so referral marketing works on every level. The days you don't feel like doing it, making a positive impact, making the connections you need to run your business. Like there's just so many positives to it that I don't know why everybody doesn't do it. I just encourage everybody to go out there and start doing some referral marketing by giving with intention. You just need to do it. You do there was a second part of that question. I think I missed it though.

SPEAKER_01 16:26

Uh yes, how do you how do you uh what makes this approach actually sustainable for people who hate feeling salesy?

SPEAKER_00 16:33

I you know what? I think I'm almost nailed that a little bit too, by accident, to my answer. So yeah, so yeah, the salesy part too, like if you're giving, so here's the key too. Like, there's some other people in my community that do the same thing I do, they go out and do the videos, but I know for sure they turn around after the video's over and say, hey, listen, I also sell this, you want to buy me? Yeah, and that never worked. They just it doesn't work. You just ruin that entire relationship. So you're giving with intention. I'm giving them videos, and when they're like, Well, what do you what's in it for you? Like, I like to meet people, I like to know you. The things you're doing I think are good for the community. I really want to support you. And once you do enough of that, there's a little bit of no like and trust. There's a little bit of trust at first sometimes. Like, you're just doing this for free? Yeah, yes, we're just doing it for free. And so sometimes it takes a little bit of time, but once the word, the word spreads, the word spreads. And I don't have to do any searching anymore. Like that comes to me, like, hey, I'm starting this business. I heard through other people that like you do stuff to help. I'm like, absolutely. Let's sit down, do some stuff, go over your business, and kind of see how I can do a commercial or do a podcast or make some flyers for you or doing something to help you get moving. Um, and so I'm not selling anything ever in that regard, and I still feel good. I'm still making that connection. When that business picks up and starts doing well, who are they gonna send referrals to? Like it all just kind of happens in the end. Um, and I don't have to sell or talk about my sales or do any of that stuff. You're just giving and building that trust up with your community, and you feel amazing while you're doing it.

SPEAKER_01 17:55

Now I know, I know for a fact that there are some people listening right now who are gonna have this, that they're they're objecting, 100% objecting because there's a fear creative entrepreneurs have that if I give too much away, people will just take and take and take and never pay. So, how do you help people understand that generosity creates gravity, that giving first actually pulls opportunities toward you instead of pushing them away?

SPEAKER_00 18:22

So, usually I start with the people that are doing the cold calls and are like, hey, listen, I do two hours of cold calls, I need to sell self-sell. I'm like, cool, let's do an hour and a half of cold calls and do 30 minutes of reaching out to local businesses and giving and doing the stuff. And then after a while, once that starts feeling better, because it's gonna start feeling better, it's gonna be way better than cold calling people at like dinner time and interrupting people. Let's start doing an hour of cold calling, let's start doing a half an hour of cold calling, and let's get rid of cold calling and door knocking and start just doing this instead. So the people that are skeptical about it, you know, feel it out, man. You know, slowly work on it yourself and just tell the business owners, hey, listen, I I dedicate an hour to it this week, and so I reached out to you. I have two hours to do this. Like, you know, set the the parameters of how much time you're gonna dedicate to it. It's not gonna be like you spending 30 hours a week just doing you know this referral outreach. You can't do that. You're running a business. Right. Just say, listen, I have an hour, I'm gonna reach out to certain numbers and just respect your time and make sure you're like, hey, I've got two hours a week to do this, I got three hours a week to do this. So that way, instead of cold calling, you're replacing it with something that's actually gonna grow your business infinitely. And I tell people to do it that way. Be strategic. Don't just give up cold turkey if you don't want to. Just slowly work your way out of it, spend that extra hour doing the business stuff. And eventually you'll say, Listen, I got two hours a week, I'm dedicating to referral marketing. And that way you're respecting your time and it's you're still running your own business, which is the whole point is to run a business and grow a business. But marketing has to be a small chunk of it, right? It does, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 19:44

Yeah, and and for those of you who are afraid to go out there without a shield, uh, which I know a lot of us do, that thing that would that that protects you. Yeah, you know, honestly, you can introduce yourself, bring some donuts, like a six-pack of donuts to to go meet a boss. Hey, I'm I'm down the street here. I just wanted to bring these, say hey, just want to meet you guys. Whatever that little shield protects, it gives you that a reason to be there. It you it get over the you're here to give a gift, and then the other gift is the what you can offer them, as opposed to, hey, I live, you know, I work down the street, and then you have that fear of that you're gonna try and sell to them. It's not about that at all. It's it's literally about the generosity. And so if you need to have something, and honestly, you can go buy donuts for four bucks. I mean, and and if your marketing consisted of four bucks a week, I think you're doing okay. You know, like it's not it's not a big loss of that regard.

SPEAKER_00 20:32

What I love to do, one of the things, like the donutsy, I like to bring um food trucks. I know all the food truck people because they're really too they they're they're hustlers and they don't have a lot of time to uh market themselves. And so I step in very naturally in that space and do commercials and do stuff for them. And so I'll get local businesses. I'm like, hey, can uh so-and-so spot up in front of your business for lunch? And then I didn't really do anything, I'm helping both of them promote. And then you give that business uh some content, like, hey, put these flyers out. So-and-so is gonna be in front of your business next week. And that's a it's the same as donut, but you're still being really active and you're helping two people at one time and you're making that connection plain uh business cupid, you know. I think that's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 21:07

And that's that's a really fun, yeah. It's it's fun. And I think that's that's the thing is that this shouldn't be traumatic. No, like it's gotta be. Cold calling is traumatic to me because I know I'm bothering people, and and I'm a Midwest guy, so like the fear of bothering someone's like, oh, it's the worst. So it's it's the thing I don't want to do. But if you go in there with that intention of we're just helping people out here, we're trying to say and I I I think that that it's it's such a you it's not even a unique approach, it's what we used to do. I mean, it it's it's a forgotten approach. Let's go that way. And so you've dusted off an old tome in the library. This works. It's like, why did we forget? Why did we stop doing it? And I think honestly, the reason that we forgot doing it is this dumb thing right here is is social media and the phones, is we all went inside and we're like, oh, I can do all my advertising for free. On my device, but what we're doing is we we are very close together, altogether isolated, which is the weirdest place to be when you can literally you know touch people all around you, but every single person is doing this and instead of interacting with people around you. It's interesting. So you went from teacher and professor to real estate to building this warm marketing framework. That's obviously not a straight line. Uh what did teaching teach you about connecting with people that translated into business?

SPEAKER_00 22:34

Oh, you can't be a teacher without being a giver. It just happened. Like it's just part of the bones, man. And so when I made the transition, so what I was doing is I was teaching and worked at the uh community college for a while, but then the summers I was flipping houses. And so after a while, I'm like, let's just cut the middleman out. I'm gonna just get my own license and I'm gonna be the realtor and cut the middleman out. And then the real estate business took off and it gave me more opportunities to serve the community on a wider scale. Like being a teacher is amazing, but you have the kids in the rooms and you're helping them. When I made that transition, now I can help anybody in the community. Like I can start helping business owners. I can start helping, and so it kind of opened opened up a lot more opportunities, and so I went that direction. Um, I didn't want to just be another realtor that rolled up in a BMW with the gold chains and just sold stuff. I just I just couldn't do it. Like I had to be somebody who was making a difference in the community. The bones were still in my body that to give. And I just took that teaching mentality and moved it into a different profession. And now I just give to local business owners and communities, and I still do stuff for the schools and teachers, I do teacher lunches, like I do an array of giving and charity. And for a while, when we had a team, we were doing at least one charity event a month. I've kind of had to scale back a little bit with some um team inter like we had to we had to let some people go. Let's just put it that way. So we get less people to do less work now. So we still do at least four charity events every year, plus we help um children's theater do things because they're an amazing cause. We help teachers do things, we help Steam. So like the giving is still there, and I do it just because if I didn't, I would probably go crazy. Like I have to give. Like it's got to be something, and it has to be in our community, and I have to be feeling useful and a productive member of our community. Otherwise, why I could live on the moon? Like, why would I even be here? You know? Like it just be productive, be proactive, be positive, you know?

SPEAKER_01 24:21

Yeah. So to follow up that question, what did you have to unlearn to be this? It sounds like you're always had that generous uh, you know, I'm like Santa for nerds, so I understand the generosity thing as well. So uh I get that. And I feel that that's it's not something you're born with, but it's definitely something that you've engaged with a lot in your life to be there. But was there any lessons that you had to unlearn in business or even through the teaching or through what you're doing now that uh was eye-opening to you? It's like, oh, I shouldn't be doing this way. Is there anything you had to unlearn?

SPEAKER_00 24:52

Yeah, I I think the big one is the trust, right? So when you're a teacher in the classroom, there's an inherent trust that you're there and you're doing what's right for the kids, and they the first impression is like you're a teacher, you're doing the right thing, you're a community member, trust. When you step back out into the community, they're always like, So what's in it for you? So I had to kind of overcome that a little bit. I'm like, no, I'm just giving. And they're like, are you just giving? And you're like, yes, I really so it took a couple of reps and had to do, I had to do a few. I had to really sit down. So that's why I tell people to take on the framework and say, Listen, find some people you know for sure. If you're friends with the electrician, start there. Or if you're friends with the bakery, start there. I the brewery was just a place that they I knew the owners, and I'm like, I like you guys, you're really fun. And so that was an easy place to start because I knew them and the trust was there. And then I went over to the bakery because I knew those owners, and the same thing. And but from there, like the trust was already established. I had a couple of examples of my work that I could share that next group to. And so you go to the flower shop and be like, hey, listen, I made this video for the brewery, check it out. This is what I did for them. If you have any questions about what I do, ask them. And I use that connect that that to build the trust up for the next one, then the next one, and the next one. And after you do whatever, a dozen or so, like all the local business owners know each other. There's like, oh yeah, it's Billy. And then you just, you know, you only need to talk to Billy, and if you know anybody else, talk to Billy, that kind of thing. But I think that was the biggest hurdle because I just assumed that everybody's be like, oh yeah, you're doing something nice, let's let's do it together. And you're like, that's not always the initial reaction. There's always uh a what's in it for you kind of uh, yeah. And it I get it. There's a lot of people selling them things, and there's a lot of people trying to rip them off, though. I get it. I just had to learn how to navigate that trust.

SPEAKER_01 26:25

That's it. And I I think that's an important thing for our for the listeners, or just honestly anybody to understand is that there is because of social media, because we're constantly being sold to, especially in America, uh, we are a sell, sell, sell community here, that there is an inherent distrust of anyone's motivations. And I have found that like when I'm trying to give this advice, like this is why I dress like a barkeep, because it allows people to think it's disarming, but it's not, I don't feel like I'm pressuring you. I'm here to serve, and that's really the whole point behind it. And so it helps to disarm them a little bit because they do come in fully armored up with oh, this person who's talking to me, they need something, they want something, they want my money, they want my time, they want my whatever. Yep. And so I think you have to learn that one, you've got to grow your own armor to be to have the thicker skin, to be able to be like, no, no, it's it's not, and then they'll still tell you no, even though though you have your best intentions for them, they're still gonna tell you no. Uh, and then you just gotta move on to the next one. You you can't be hurt by a rejection because they're maybe not in a place, or they've had you know, they've had somebody do what you said earlier, which was, oh, I'm gonna do all this stuff for you for free, and then they turn around with their hand out, and you're like, ah, you know, I got burned. And it's like there's some distrust in there. And so just just no keep working on them, but always with the intention of not trying to sell, but really with the intention of trying to help, to, to give, to use your terms there, which is I think is truly important, and a lesson that I think we we all need to relearn again and again. Community has been one of those things that I feel has just almost evaporated. I mean, I love the internet because it helped globe, you know, make the globe a small place. But what happened is the longer we have it, the more, unfortunately, the the the more sinister people get their hands into things and they spend their time trying to isolate. And we used to be more community driven. And I live in the suburbs, like the closest store to me is six miles away. And that's that's that's a jaunt. So like I can't just go to the local, you know, farmers market and go buy groceries or anything like that. So we live in these isolated areas. I'm surrounded by people, but I got to get in my car to go anywhere. You know, it's it's like it's such a weird place to be. And I feel that we've just kind of stepped away from all of that. So when you're dealing with these businesses, obviously, so do you have a brick and mortar that you that you work out of, or do are you just kind of free-floating?

SPEAKER_00 28:48

Free float. My brick and mortar's got four rubber tires and a steering wheel.

SPEAKER_01 28:52

Awesome. Because that's that's the answer that I wanted. Because when you're talking about going into these communities, you know, you're going to brick and mortars, you're helping these or to trucks, which you know are metal and wheels, but mobile. Yeah, yeah. But it's still it's still a physical place. And so you're not saying like I am the person in the brick and mortar. So you don't have to be in that location. You just need to be willing to go to those places and meet those people. And I think I think that that that's an important distinction that we have to make because people will put up obstacles to make sure that they don't do the thing that they should be doing. Like you put up these personal obstacles instead of like, oh, I don't have a business, I don't need to do this, or it's whatever. It's like, no, no, you still do build that community, even if it's like, like you said, you started off in a pub that you loved. You know, you're like, oh, I like this pub. Maybe you drank there a lot, you hung out, you know, whatever. This is a place I'm familiar with, and you got to know the owner. I've got a couple of those businesses that I'm familiar with. I literally go into a place and they're like, hey, Paul, and I'm like, hey, you know, you know, and that's the thing, is there is no better moment than when you sit down in a booth and somebody brings you your drink without you ever having to say a word. You know, you're like, ooh, I made it. I'm norm from cheers. You know, it's like they all know me. That's what I was thinking. Yeah, it's like there's there's something to that, and I think that we need to to get back to that. And and those places where you have that familiarity, that's where you should be just connecting with them. And don't go in trying to connect a cell, go in to connect to try to find out what the problem is. Yep. You know, what and and just and maybe just ask them, you know, like hey, I I patron here all the time. I'm I'm happy to give you my money, my patronage. What is it that's like really the thing that's that that you could use help with? And and maybe it's not something that you can help them with, but if you've been doing it what you've been doing long enough, you're like, I got a person for you. Let me make an introduction. And that's how this works. It doesn't come out of just it's not cold walking into a building, you know, it's it's not, it's not cold calling, guys. And in and I think that's what we we're trying to communicate here is that there is exactly it and at a certain point it's fun. You know, this kids. It's it's fun. And it's I mean, look at you. We've been smiling and laughing this entire time, and we're talking about marketing.

SPEAKER_00 30:57

You know, it's like, yeah, there's there's joy to it. It's a blast. I mean, try to find a more passionate group of people than local business owners. Go ahead and try to find that. I mean, then we could talk about their business for days. They might be scared to do the commercial with you right away, but you're not gonna you're not raw, you know, in crumb kite. You're not gonna try to get to like the you're like, hey, what where's your business? How long have you been doing it? Why do you do it? Like, it's some softball questions. 99.9% of the time, people are like, that was way easier than I thought it was gonna be, because you just ask them questions. It's a conversation like this and you record it. That's all it is. Um and and I've even done, you said brick and mortars, I've even done out of people's houses. They're like, hey, listen, I'm a nutritionist, I work out of the house mostly. I'm like, cool, let's go check, let's set it up in your kitchen. And I've I've done videos with people in their kitchen or like their studio, art studio set up in their little office. Like, because I mean with video cameras, you can make anything look like I'm sure your setup's probably not a whole room, is it? No. Yeah. So I mean you can make any of this stuff work on a really low scale. So if people are like, oh, I don't have a studio set up on like, dude, all I really need is a four by four window. Like, look, if can we make any part of any area house look presentable in a four by four window, and we can make this work, no problem. So and yeah, it's it it does bring excitement and positivity. And they're I they're always so gracious too, to like thank you. I appreciate all your help. And then the amount of free food truck food, that is definitely an added bonus, man. I have gotten some really good food. And then here's another quick tip make sure you make friends with all the cupcake ladies, because that is a nice little there is no such thing as an angry or uh upset uh cupcake lady. There is the cupcake lady that wants you to try her latest cupcake and you make amazing connections with the cupcake ladies. It is the way to go, I'm telling you.

SPEAKER_01 32:37

Absolutely 100%. Absolutely. I love that. It's because you're you know, like the the things that you can get for free. Like, I believe strongly in the barter system. I mean, I maybe that's why I live in those dungeons and dragons world. You know, it's like I I love like I did an entire like wedding design thing for this this guy who worked at Adidas, and he's like, Do you want some shoes? Do you want some gear? And I'm like, I got six pairs of shoes, I got some shorts, I still have them. I'm like, this is a great, great part. And the thing is, like, he worked there, so he got them for free. So it was like no skin off his back, but I'm like, I I'll I'll take that. And so, same thing, cupcake lady. They're like, We got extra cupcakes here, you know, try this, yes, or whatever. It's it's those types of situations. It's like, don't be afraid to not take cash. Sometimes, because what I like to tell people is like, uh, especially artists, I'm like, go out and find an art store that might give you some free art supplies. Because you're gonna, instead of paying you to like set up and like do a demo, live demo in their store, they're gonna give you the paint because you're gonna spend the money they would have given you on the paint. So now you've got the paint for free and you're saving some money. So it's not a loss of money, you're not losing out because you're getting stuff in exchange. What it is is you're just your money is not going towards the things you were gonna buy, anyways.

SPEAKER_00 33:52

And it's yeah, and I mean you're paying for cold leads and stuff anyway. That's what I always tell people. Like, whatever you're spending on cold leads, let's let's start using that for the community instead. Like let's just start making it easier on yourself.

SPEAKER_01 34:02

And and I don't I don't think people really like people who don't do cold calling don't understand the amount of money that you sink into just trying to find somebody who may be interested. And then the do you know, like I'll ask you, what's the percentage of cold leads?

unknown 34:15

There you go.

SPEAKER_00 34:17

Three percent.

SPEAKER_01 34:18

Three percent, three percent, and you're paying goods, thousands of dollars to get three percent of people. That means 97% of people are slamming a door or dropping a phone on you. Like that kind of rejection wears down your soul. How many places have you walked into and done this that they've turned that they've turned you down, like hard turned you down? Like, what's the percentage on that one? Would you assume in the beginning or now? That's two different windows. I'll say both. Like, because obviously you've been doing this for a while, so you got a better success rate because it's it's rolling in. But when you were first starting out, what was that number be?

SPEAKER_00 34:52

When I when I first started, um probably 20% said no. But of that 20% that said no, eventually I I they saw that I was being honest and really doing the thing. Five percent, maybe at most, because it's free marketing for them. Not many people say no. I'd say five percent at most. And that's usually when they're like, listen, I know what you do for a living. My cousin also does it. I don't want to step on any toes. And so in those cases, too, I always say, well, listen, bring your cousin, let's make the video together. I know how to do this. We can market the both of us. There's why would we have this scarcity mindset? Let's just both do the video. We want you to win. I talk to you on purpose because I like what you do as a local business owner. I think you're good for the community. Bring your cousin in. I'll send all the leads your way. I don't care. Just let me post a video every once in a while. And that works too, but I'm 5%. And I think now, now, I don't know, 0.05%? I don't know. Like nobody says no now because they're they usually reach out because they're like, hey, we see you doing videos. I really want some promotion. Most of the time, I don't have to reach out to people. Um maybe the 0.05 is somebody that has a marketing director they pay for, and they feel like they're being paid to do the job, so they don't want me in on it. So that'd be the only other scenario that I would come across where, like, oh no, you have a marketing director. You're like, all right, well, I'm just trying to offer you some freebies, but sure, whatever. But I mean, listen to those numbers, listeners.

SPEAKER_01 36:12

Like listen to 3% success to starting out 80% success. Three to eight, what would you rather spend your time doing? Like, honestly. I hate I don't want to be rejected, you know, 97%. No, I would stop doing my business. But if I went out and just if I had an 86% success rate, that 20% you would is just water off a duck's back, guys. I mean, because you get a lot of yeses and not a lot of no's. Now, now I know people are listening, they're like, okay, great, you're giving away things for free. Of course, people are going to take that. So, what is the percentage of people who then transferred into paid work for you or or barter or whatever, you know, something for it?

SPEAKER_00 36:53

That is a tougher one to answer with an honest like number because they send people your way, and I don't always say where do you come from or who'd you come from? Sometimes I do. I could say this: I don't do any cold ads, I don't do any marketing, I don't do any of that. All of my business nowadays, 100% of it's referral marketing, and it's been that way for the last like eight to ten years, I would say. And so I don't have a marketing budget in that sense. I have a marketing budget for charity events, I got a marketing budget for giving to the community, I have a marketing budget for food because we do things like that. That's what my marketing budget is. It's not like paying a third party anything. All of the my marketing budget goes back into the community, all of it. So it's just a mindset shift. But I don't have a set number for you. I wish I did because people pop in and see you doing stuff, and yeah, people, yeah, it's a tough number to come up with.

SPEAKER_01 37:44

I would say I'm all referral, but I'm gonna I'm gonna give you uh an out here, a fairly easy softball out here. It's how disappointed are you on the daily that you don't know that number.

SPEAKER_00 37:58

How disappointed am I? I'm not exactly more people just keep coming in my way. I just like I didn't have to I I the money's going back to the community in charity formats. It's not like I'm burning my budget on buying cold bleeds that have to convert or I'm wasting my money. And I meet more people all the time. Like even this morning, they brought me into the local middle school to talk about marketing and stuff, and I was just a guy I knew from some other charity events than that I did, and he's like, I'd like you to come in and talk to the kids about marketing and real estate and stuff like that. And so, like, you get yourself in all these scenarios and meet people you never would have thought of you would have met. I mean, the lady that works in economic development, she calls me every once in a while just to check in. Hey, we have some new businesses if you want to meet them. The mayor of the town actually calls once in a while. I play golf with them once in a while, and I'm like, the people you meet through doing this and the connections are something you didn't anticipate, like you didn't expect. But once you're in the community and they see you as a giver and they can trust you and you show up on a consistent basis being that person, they'll introduce you to other people that have other connections and know other people, and it just happens, and you hear that phrase, hey, you need to be Billy, and you you start hearing that phrase more and more, and you didn't really do anything besides being a honest, genuine person that gave to the community and you didn't do anything specific. But it's how you go from a business to a career. That's the big transition. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:16

And I I think that's it's beautiful. I mean, it's honest. It and that's probably the best advice that I've we've received here because a lot of the a lot of the guests that I have that come in are actually people who are like, Oh, I'm I I have this new idea and I'm trying to pitch it or whatever. And your pitch is just be generous.

unknown 39:31

Yeah, that's great.

SPEAKER_01 39:33

Be generous, and then it will it will come back to you. And I I tell this to people all the time, and they're like, eh, yeah, and it's like, no, if I was generous to you, would you would you appreciate that? And I'm like, well, of course I would, because it's you. And I'm like, why are you not me? You know, just go out and be generous. It's not hard, it's just you just it's a mind, it's a mind shift. It really 100% is. And and you've gotta understand that not everything is for the sale. But honestly, at the end of the day, do you want when you die, do you want the pews in your funeral to be filled with dollar bills, or do you want to be filled with people who affected that whose lives you affected? Yeah, that's the reality here. So quit trying to chase the dollar, chase the community.

SPEAKER_00 40:15

Yeah, what it really comes down to is what your give is. And you got to spend some time doing that because if your give is anything, you're gonna lose. You're gonna burn out, it's not gonna work for you. Your give has to be something really specific, and you have to make sure you're meeting and talking to people that align with your goals. That is step one in all of my all the stuff that I teach and preach and talk about. Know what your values are, know who aligns with those goals, and then make sure your giving is very intentional. Like, I give this thing because I enjoy it, I love doing it, I know it's good for you, I know it meets your pain point, and so I enjoy doing it. And if you take that approach, you won't burn out. You'll see value in it, you won't burn out.

SPEAKER_01 40:51

Yeah, see. Yeah, it's the first three chapters of my book. You just explained it really clearly really clearly. Oh, first three chapters of the book.

SPEAKER_00 40:57

Oh, dude, we need to do a book exchange. 100%. I love the book exchange. It's a good time. Excellent. It's my goal this year.

SPEAKER_01 41:04

So, Billy, for adventurers listening who are tired of running with the lone wolf and ready to start building their village, where can they find you and learn more about live local warm marketing?

SPEAKER_00 41:14

I think by the easiest way is the website. I know that's a super generic answer, and people teach you to do the other ones, but the website does have all the stuff, like even my contacts on it. So you go to live local warmmarketing.com. On there at the bottom, you'll have like my LinkedIn and that stuff. Super easy, get a hold of me there. It has the book, which we're gonna book exchange, and then it's got some freebies, like the blogs and the uh podcast, and it's got some the framework if you want to take that next step and whatnot. Or there's a lot of different options, like it's it's whatever choose your own adventure, right? I'm ready to do here, or I'm ready to do this, or I'm ready to do this. And I know people are in different phases of different and so they have different levels of commitments. Or if you just want to sit down and like do an audit of your business and wouldn't want to talk about some of the things you're working on. I'd love sitting there just talking shop. And that link is on the website too. You can sit down and take 15 minutes and see what you're doing, what's working, why it's not working, if we can start incorporating a little more referral marketing in your business, or maybe you just love cold calling and that's the way you're gonna go. It's fine with me too. It's whatever, whatever you want to do. But that's the easiest way. Website.

SPEAKER_01 42:14

So it's live local. I've been saying live local the entire time. You never once correct it.

SPEAKER_00 42:18

I get this all the time. It's a branding issue right there. That's a branding problem. Like I've been, yeah, people say live and live. It's the same word, but I never thought of that when I was making it. I'm like, oh yeah, live local. Everybody's gonna live local. And then on somebody's podcast, like live local, I'm like, yeah, it's the same spelling. I'm an idiot.

SPEAKER_01 42:32

Well, I think because the thing is it's like live local because you're actually going into these businesses. I'm like, oh, it's definitely live local. I'd never once made it together until you said it. It's I live live local. Like, so look at me looking like the pool. All right, it's warm in here now.

SPEAKER_00 42:45

I know that's a branding issue. I gotta work on that, man. It's it's fine. I got you. It happens all the time.

SPEAKER_01 42:50

All right, excellent. I'll have all of Billy's links in the show notes. So if you've been grinding cold outreach and getting nowhere, tonight's conversation might be exactly the permission you need to stop hunting and start giving. And that, fellow adventurers, is what it sounds like when a village bard shares the song. I want to thank Billy for pulling up a chair tonight and naming something most of us feel, but don't say out loud. The lone wolf approach is exhausting and it doesn't even work. We've been taught that more outreach, more hustle, more grinding is the answer, but creative entrepreneurs who follow that path end up isolated, starving, and wondering why business feels like a hunt that never ends. So here's what I want you to take away from tonight. You don't need more leads, you need more relationships. Generosity creates gravity. When you show up to serve your community, not to extract from it, opportunities start finding you instead of you chasing them. The boutique owner who made videos with her neighbors and became the referral hub, the video that Billy made for the local brewery that became his entire marketing strategy, these aren't accidents, guys. They're what happens when you stop hunting alone and start building a village worth belonging to. The lone wolf is always hungry. The village bard never eats cupcakes alone. So if Billy's message resonated with you, check out Live Local Warm Marketing. I'll have the links in the show notes. Until next time, remember business is an adventure. Don't be an NPC.