Ep 40: "Dead Poets Society Vol 2: Curtis Mayfield"

On this episode, we take a deep dive into the life and legacy of Curtis Mayfield. Curtis Mayfield is the soulful voice behind timeless classics like "People Get Ready", "Move On Up", and the iconic "Super Fly" soundtrack. This episode explores Mayfield’s early days with The Impressions, his powerful role in the Civil Rights Movement, and how his socially conscious music became the soundtrack for change, pride, and perseverance in Black America. We also reflect on his groundbreaking artistry, his influence on hip-hop and R&B, and the remarkable resilience he showed after the tragic accident that changed his life forever.

Intro and Outro music by Erin Garris and Khari Garris

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:14

Yo, yo, yo, what it is, what it was, what's it gonna be? Welcome. Welcome to the latest episode of the Gem Expertise Podcast, episode 40, entitled Dead Poet Society, Volume Two. Curtis Mayfield. We are your hosts, Maynard Rants, aka Welcome, welcome. You know us, we're your friends, your main boys to the end. We're your podcasters. What's good, homie?

SPEAKER_02 0:50

Everything's good, man. How you feeling?

SPEAKER_00 0:51

Put a little bass guitar in there for us. You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_01 0:58

Yeah, I like it.

SPEAKER_00 0:59

Yeah, everything is good, man. Starting to heat up here in New York City. Got a little 88-degree day today. Took the kids out to the park with the family day.

SPEAKER_02 1:08

That's nice. It's beautiful.

SPEAKER_00 1:09

Yeah, it's beautiful, man.

SPEAKER_02 1:11

Finally heating up in NYC.

SPEAKER_00 1:13

Finally heating up. We're about to get a stretch. We're about to get a little mini New York heat wave for about four days. And then it's gonna hit like 5660 again or something crazy like that.

SPEAKER_02 1:22

That's only right. That's only right.

SPEAKER_00 1:23

That's only right, so that's how we do it. You never know. Keep you on your toes here in the NYC, man. So Dead Poet Society Volume 2, backed by popular demand. Kind of.

SPEAKER_02 1:44

I'm sure somebody out there is demanding it.

SPEAKER_00 1:46

I'm sure somebody out there. You know, we give the people what they want. Or in this case, we give the person what they want. We started off with Gil Scott Heron, and today we're switching it off into another one of our series because we like to do series. You know, we do movies, we do books, we do TV shows, and and artists. So um today we're going with Curtis Mayfield, known as the Gentle Genius, son.

SPEAKER_02 2:16

The gentle genius. I didn't know that.

SPEAKER_00 2:18

Yeah, yeah. They they referred referred to him as a gentle genius, one of the one of the great songwriters, singer songwriters of our time. Um, some people have even called him the father or the godfather of the message music era. So we we're gonna talk about his impact on us and then and the music. And of course, you know, like I did in Joe Scott Harrimain, I have a I have some uh I have a few lyrics from uh a few of his songs.

SPEAKER_01 2:47

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 2:47

Um that I that I that I may see. I I you know I might sing one of them. I think I would sing one of them. I gotta sing one of them today.

SPEAKER_02 2:54

Yeah, everybody gotta be looking forward to that.

SPEAKER_00 2:56

Yeah. So Curtis, Mr. Curtis Mayfield, born June June 3rd, 1942, north side of Chicago. He was one of so I saw that he was one of five, and he was one of seven. So he was either five, he either had five siblings or seven siblings. It was a lot of them.

SPEAKER_02 3:17

Yeah, the research on him like shows like a few numbers that I that I I I saw when I when I started research on Curtis Mayfield more. Um the numbers are a little bit off depending on the source. Yeah. So it's between five and seven, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 3:32

Five, it's between five and seven. He had a lot of siblings. He was had a single mother, and his father left him at five years old, so they moved around until they settled, they settled into the Cabrini Green projects in Chicago.

SPEAKER_02 3:45

Um, which is no, Chicago seemed to be Yeah, Chicago seems to be um kind of a a fertile ground for for artists and and and for like great minds, you know? Yeah. Um that it just strikes me when you when when we talk about Curtis Mayfield and being him being from Chicago, um Gilsky Heron was also actually born in Chicago.

SPEAKER_03 4:07

Right.

SPEAKER_02 4:08

And then of course Kanye West, you know, for better or for better or worse, like whatever you whatever you think of Kanye West right now, um, at one time, I'm sure you could recognize that Kanye was also um a genius in his own right in terms of music and and um lyrical ability and and also putting music together, um making arrangements, right? So so it's it's just interesting. I I feel like Chicago is is one of those places where it's like a mecca for for art and um and especially like prolific lyricists.

SPEAKER_00 4:39

Oh, there you go. Since it is prolific, where there's hunger, there's creativity. You know, I always thought of Kanye, Kanye, I always say this. He's the Van Gogh of hip hop, son. You think so? I think he's you know, Van Van Gogh was a tortured soul. Do you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_02 4:58

Didn't Van Gogh cut off his own ear?

SPEAKER_00 5:00

Yes, Van Gogh cut off his ear. So he was a tortured soul, but he was a genius. And um I knew uh I know an art major who who put me on was saying that they think that Van Gogh might have gone crazy. That's why, well, he did go crazy, but they think that he went crazy from lead poisoning because uh in those times they painted with a lot of lead and he painted in a room with a small window. And if you look at his self-portrait, his lips are kind of purple in his self-portrait. That is like a sign of lead poisoning. So they think that he might have just gone crazy from lead poisoning. That's the way the reason why Van Gogh, yeah, Van Gogh like bugged out and cut his ears off and stuff like that. Didn't he put it in a box and give it to someone and anything? But that's neither here nor there. But I always consider um Kanye our Van Gogh of hip-hop, the tortured genius. Also from Cabrini Green, was who we will get into also is Jerry Butler and Ramsey Lewis, the great jazz pianist. Was also from Cabrini Green, which they tore down. I'm not sure the year that they told him down, but they're no longer there. So one of the influences on uh Curtis Mayfield growing up was his grandmother, who was uh let me get her name, uh Annabelle Mayfield. She was uh a reverend. His grandmother was a reverend, and he started singing at seven, and he was singing with the Northern Jubilee Gospel singers. So that's where he started off. And there's also where he met Mr. Jerry Butler.

SPEAKER_01 6:29

Right.

SPEAKER_00 6:30

You know, where they met at an early age. He got his first guitar at 10 years old, and he's self-taught. He couldn't read music, he was self-taught, and he slept with his guitar, it says I read that he slept, he loved his guitar so much and he loved music so much that he slept, he slept with it. When he met Jerry Butler at the age of 14, they joined they uh forged the impressions, the group the impressions, but they were first known at the as the Roosters.

SPEAKER_02 7:00

Yeah, I I saw I actually I I saw a documentary about Curtis Mayfield recently, right? And his mother is actually interviewed in this particular documentary, and she says that at first um Butler um didn't want to let Curtis Mayfield into the group. They were friends, but but Curtis Mayfield was younger and they felt that he was too too young to be part of the group. But then when it when it when it came time to um to get more serious, Curtis Mayfield was the only one that could play the guitar, she said. She said that he was the only one that that picked up the guitar and taught himself how to play. And at that point, they had to let him in because they needed somebody to accompany them when they were, you know, when they were first starting out. Um so that's how that's how he wound up getting into the group. But thank goodness, right?

SPEAKER_03 7:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:49

Um, but she said that he was really uh, you know, always curious, always singing, like from the time he was little. Um so when he when he got that guitar, he wound up being the only person in the neighborhood or the only person amongst his friend group and his family that picked it up and and started um and just started playing and and taught himself, right?

unknown 8:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:09

And he had a unique way of of tuning. We'll we'll probably get into this a little later, but open that shop. Yeah, his his unique way of tuning it was was accounts for like the style and and the the sound that you hear from him, right? Because at the time he had a very unique sound as compared to his his his peers, right? And that was extremely important at the time was that you be kind of able to to kind of distinguish yourself from other artists, right? Like people needed to hear you and be able to to identify who you were right away.

SPEAKER_00 8:39

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Some of his early influences was Muddy Waters and a Spanish uh musician called Andre Socovia. Those were his early influences, and as Maine said, he tuned his guitar a certain way. As a matter of fact, there was only a few people in the world that can play the guitar the way Curtis Mayfield plays a guitar. He was so self-taught and he couldn't read music. So he but what he could do is he could play the piano. So he tuned his guitar in what's called an open F sharp. And that's what it was called. And I played a little piano as a kid. I wanted to play the sacks or the drums, but my mother put me in piano lessons, which I didn't like, so I I never really took to it. But so he tuned his guitar to the black keys instead of the ivory keys. And he tuned it in six from low to high, six, uh, so it said six strings, F sharp, a sharp, C sharp, F sharp, A sharp, and F sharp. That was from low to high. So all you musician musicians out there, they'll know more of what we're talking about when we say that. But I saw a video where they were saying that people would pick up his his guitar and they were like, How the heck do you play, play the guitar this way? I guess to reference it to draw some type of comparison. If anybody's out there is an anime, a Japanese anime fan, or you read manga, right? If you read manga and the shonen jumps, the narrow toes and the one pieces, when you pick up a a manga, here we read from left to right. When you pick up a manga, you read from right to left. So it's almost like he tuned backwards. So they said that his guitar sounded like a piano. One of one of the uh guitars that he had a heavy influence on was Jimi Hendrix. They said Jimi Hendrix when he was uh because you know Jimi Hendrix used to play guitar for the Isley brothers, I believe. So he would go and he would wait and he would catch Curtis Mayfield's set. And as one of his band members said, that there's certain I think it's sand sand castles made of sand, or there's a couple of songs that Jimi Hendrix plays where they say Curtis Mayfield's fingerprint is all over some of his some of his playing, and that's arguab arguably the greatest guitar to ever do it. And Curtis Mayfield heavily influenced him in the way he played. And they said Jimmy was probably the only person at the time that could that could pick up his guitar and play it, and even he was like, yo, man, what the what right you know? So Curtis was a he was a real musician. Right. He was a real musician, and they said it just sung, especially with his falsetto voice, was just so smooth that it it it literally sounded like it was a piano, they as musicians said. You know, we listen to the music and we know the music, but we're not musicians like that. So anybody who's listening that's a musician, musician, they understand exactly what we're talking about.

SPEAKER_01 11:49

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 11:51

So in 1956, the Impressions form, and they're responsible for hits such as Um It's Alright, It's Alright, have a good time, it's alright, I'm so proud, and of course, People Get Ready, which is one of the songs they're very famous for. So in the 60s and the 70s, if you're a Gen Xer, the Impressions were responsible for a lot of the music that your mother and father were making out to in the in the in the basement parties, in the house parties, back in those days. And he was only 14 years old.

SPEAKER_02 12:30

Right.

SPEAKER_00 12:30

Which is amazing.

SPEAKER_02 12:32

He said that he also um he wrote gypsy woman. Yeah. Um at 12 years old. Right. So yeah, this gives you kind of the impression of like how young he was when when he was writing and and and starting to make music. So yeah, man. He's a he's definitely a prodigy, you know.

SPEAKER_00 12:50

Mm-hmm. Yeah, he's a he's a prodigy. So it was the group was him, Jerry Butler, and I forget the I forgot the other part, the third guy's name, and I don't even have it written down. But it was three of them.

SPEAKER_02 13:02

So there's well, there's a few people that that came in and out, right? Like so the so the names um is Sam Gooden.

SPEAKER_01 13:08

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 13:09

Um, Leroy Hudson was at at one point at least part of the group. Um Arthur Brooks, Richard Brooks, Reggie Torian, Wooly Kitchens, and Vandy Hampton.

SPEAKER_00 13:22

Oh.

SPEAKER_02 13:22

Um so there you go.

SPEAKER_00 13:24

Am I my brother's keeper? I ain't got my back. There you go with the assist.

SPEAKER_02 13:28

Yeah, some of them are uh are are listed as like former members, and some of them are listed as members. So I take that like you know, um, I think it was originally four of them, and then people would kind of go in and out of the group, right? And I think um, if I'm not mistaken, Jerry Butler left after they had their first hit. He went he went solo, um, and then he would eventually go on to to the rock and roll hall of fame, and you know. But another fun fact is that um the impressions really didn't take to Curtis Mayfield's messaging.

SPEAKER_03 13:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:59

They wanted to be RB singers, right? And they wanted to just sing about the ladies and sing about love, and then Curtis Mayfield would eventually go on to want to really, really, you know, inject his music with a message, and the other members of the impressions, they weren't really interested in that. Not that they were against it, per se. Yeah, sometimes he would come up with something, they would they would sing it, and it wasn't until like way after that they would realize, wait a minute.

SPEAKER_00 14:23

Yeah, hold on a second.

SPEAKER_02 14:24

They would go over the lyrics and be like, wow, this is really saying something. So they were surprising themselves by the time they were done with some of some of Curtis Mayfield's arrangements. They they didn't even realize until after the fact that they would that there was a message in their music, right? Um, but that was something that that they weren't as interested in as him, I found out. And um, that would lead him to go solo and really take over his own his own destiny, right? And make sure that he was able to do that and um do it without any any protest or even from the label. Um he was so license that they he kind of got carte blanche to do what he wanted um after because he was he was doing so well. So yeah, that was it, that's a little fun fact.

SPEAKER_00 15:07

Yeah, after Jerry Butler left, actually the group got dropped from the record label as well.

SPEAKER_02 15:12

Oh, I didn't know that part.

SPEAKER_00 15:13

Yeah, when he left, they the the the group got dropped. And then they were picked up in 1961 by ABC, ABC Paramount Records, who decided to give them a chance. In 1961. And once they got signed to ABC Paramount, literally Curtis Mayfield wrote everything. So I guess that's why they were like they they didn't like it, but they were they were sticking around because he was a good thing.

SPEAKER_02 15:38

Yeah, they said that he was the creative yeah, he was the creative kind of um engine behind the impressions, right? And they say that um, like I said, like I I just watched a documentary about him, and um the other members of the group were definitely saying that he was the creative engine behind everything they did. So sometimes they he would even surprise them with some of the songs they would come up with. But they they just went with it.

SPEAKER_00 16:03

Yeah, and he stayed with them until 1970, and that's when he he broke off and went solo, did his own thing.

SPEAKER_01 16:09

Right.

SPEAKER_00 16:10

And that's when he dropped the album Um Curtis, a self-entitled album Curtis, and on that was The Makings of You, which we talked about in the um the previous episode where we Oh my gosh, son. What Claudine in the Claudine.

SPEAKER_02 16:26

Yeah, we're talking about Claudine. It's on the soundtrack for Claudine where Gladys Knight and the Pips actually do the music for um for Claudine, but it's all written by Curtis Mayfield, right? Um so that that's interesting. I've I actually, you know, I guess an unpopular opinion, but I like their version better than Gladys Knight and the Pips? Yeah. When I hear the makers of you, like I really don't think of Curtis Mayfield, and when I've heard his version of it, like I've heard it years, you know, for years now, I've been hearing his version. But if I had to pick, I really, really love Gladys Knight and the Pips version of The Makings of You. Um it does it, I don't know. It doesn't even sound like Curtis Mayfield remembers his the song. Kind of I I don't know. It's a strange, and this is very bad. I feel bad for the strangest. Cause we're doing an episode about him and God bless him, you know, rest in peace to him. And I know he's a genius, and I'm a big fan, but that particular song, when I hear it, I would really prefer to hear Gladys Knight's version of it.

SPEAKER_01 17:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:30

And you're looking at me like No, but you want to cut my mic? But I cut his mic off.

SPEAKER_00 17:40

My favorite version is the Curtis Mayfield version. But but I understand completely why you like the Gladys Knight and the Pips version because if you watch Claudine, right, his version, his original version that he sang that he wrote doesn't really fit. I feel like um Gladys Knight's voice, the way she sang it, the the the woman's touch to it. You know what I mean? It's a love story. The feeling that you get when you hear Gladys Knight sings it fits 100% with the movie. Like if I didn't see the movie and I just heard the song by Curtis Mayfield, I would like I would love the the Curtis Mayfield version, which I do because I heard that version before I saw the actual movie. But when I heard I watched the movie, I was like, oh man, I was like, this fits. It her voice just fits.

SPEAKER_02 18:33

So so that that's an excellent point because maybe it's also that the first time I ever heard the song was the Gladys Knight version from Claudine. Right. So that that probably affected me the, you know, because I I see that as the original in terms of like, you know, at least me hearing it. I know it's not, but yeah, I know for for me that was the first time I ever heard it. And you're right, that it fits the movie so perfectly. And even the arrangement of the um the instruments is the strings and all that, and it's a better arrangement in terms of instrumentation than Curtis Mayfield's version that's on the Curtis album, to be honest with you.

SPEAKER_03 19:09

Like, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:12

So you're giving me that look again, like you would have cut my mic.

SPEAKER_00 19:20

Nah, I feel when you come in, though. It's you know, it's just a I think it's just a matter of when when you heard it and what you associate it with. I think that's basically what it is.

SPEAKER_02 19:29

Yeah, and and and don't get me wrong, like the song is a beautiful song anyway, R. And Curtis is I'm a big fan, don't get me wrong. It's just that like like that particular song like hits me a certain way. And and it always has, and I guess it, but it's I think it's mainly because, like you said, um, because of the Claudine movie and the way it fits into that movie, and and kind of it, it just brings back it brings me back to that time as a kid watching that, and like, you know, my my my mother put me onto that movie, so it's like you know, it it has just a certain special place for me. Yeah, and it was the first time I heard the song, right? So, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:05

As we said earlier, um Curtis Mayfield is is known as like the father or the godfather of the message music, message music era of the 60s, and his music was played during the Selma March. I found out like they were singing and playing it during the Selma March. And also the Freedom Riders would sing it before they got off the bus or when they would get off the bus to get them prepared to do what they to go and do what they had to do. And one of the songs is called uh Keep on Pushin'.

SPEAKER_02 20:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:38

Alright, and it's I've got to keep on pushing. I can't stop now. Move up a little higher, somehow, somehow. Cause I've got my strength, and it don't make sense not to keep on pushing. Hallelujah, hallelujah. So that's the one of the songs that they would sing um while they were getting ready. And and he this is why he became known as like the father of the message music and some of the most powerful songs during the civil rights movement.

SPEAKER_02 21:07

Yeah, some some people say that he was pretty much the soundtrack for the civil rights movement.

SPEAKER_00 21:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:11

Right. Um, because of not only that song, but songs like you know, People Get Ready.

SPEAKER_03 21:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:16

Um Move On Up. Um What's the other one? We're what is it We're a Winner?

SPEAKER_00 21:22

Uh We're we're yeah, I think I believe it's We're a Winner. Yeah, or you're a winner or We're Winner.

SPEAKER_02 21:28

I think it's I think it's what we're a winner. Now I yeah, I'm I'm I'm pretty sure it's it's it's we're a winner, right? Um Yeah, we're just all those type of songs. Because the the thing about Curtis that was also unique is that he didn't really care if if he made it to the airwaves or not in terms of like radio play. Um and that's what endeared him also to like the civil rights movement in terms of like the activists that were heavily involved. He got a lot of respect for the fact that he wasn't trying to just make RB music, right? Like he wasn't just trying to make love songs, he was. Making songs that spoke to the the times and the ego. Like, I think who said who was it that said um Nina Simone actually says this, right? Like, where I saw, like, and this is a little bit of a segue, but but but bear with me. Um, Nina Simone says in an interview that she, and I'm paraphrasing here, she says that that it's kind of the duty of an artist to reflect the times. And otherwise, you're not really doing your your duty as an artist. Um, and I think that Curtis Mayfield felt the same exact way, like that, that as an artist, he was reflecting the times, he was reflecting um what he would what he was going through himself, um, what he was witnessing, what he's what he's observing, and reflecting the the views of his own community, right? Um, and he did that regardless of um what he would lose in terms of airplay. Because at the time, what I was what I was saying is that um the the the radio stations were actually scared to play him for for for fear that they would lose sponsorship, right? Um but he didn't care. He was just he was just he kept he kept making the music that he wanted to make, right? Um and thank goodness he did, right? Because I think one of the things with him is that his music is very melodic with that message. So it's beautiful, you know, composition, it's beautiful arrangement. Um his voice fits perfectly. He has a very, very unique voice too, like that, like a falsetto sound that you don't really hear anymore, or at least not much. At least not in that is a very, very distinct Curtis Mayfield sound that you know when you hear it. So you combine all of that and then you put a message in it as well, is is genius. And I think that's why the music lasts even until today, where like you you still hear it and it still hits you um in a certain way.

SPEAKER_00 23:46

He kind of forced his way in the door. He they had, I mean, he wrote all of these hits, so they had 20 RB hits and 12 plus crossover pop chart hits, so he couldn't be denied.

SPEAKER_01 23:59

Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 24:00

And we were talking earlier about how we did the episode on Gil Scott Heron, and they're so similar, but they're so different at the same time because Gil Scott Heron was more like kicking the door, waving the 4-4 type. You know what I mean? And Gil Scott Heron, I mean, and Curtis Mayfield with that unassuming falsetto, it was so melodic, like you find yourself, even his own bandmates found themselves singing lyrics to songs that they had no idea because the music was so good. So you have two artists with the same mission that went about it two totally different ways.

SPEAKER_02 24:39

Right, exactly, exactly. And and and that's exactly what I was trying to say, too. Like um, Curtis Mayfield was really melodic, undeniable musicality, right? So you so no matter what you you feel about the message, it's still a bop, as they say. Like, right, you know, like the music slaps. So you're gonna get that message no matter what. Like, no matter what, you're gonna get this work, right? Yeah. And then when you compare them to somebody like Gil Scott Heron, it feels like, like you said, the mission is the same in terms of like, you know, being a spokesperson for a generation and being a spokesperson for your people and your community, um, and for yourself, right? Like, because you're part of that and and and you're you're trying to get across like what you're going through as well. But Gil Scott Heron seemed like he was more, he wasn't as interested in in whether or not you cared for the melody, right? Like he was really, really about the spoken word and and and very, very like kind of direct in his message, um, where it felt like Curtis Mayfield was trying to give you a palatable um kind of melody. But I don't think he was able he he couldn't help but to but to give you a message because just the the topics that he was talking about, you know, you can't help but to get a message out.

SPEAKER_00 25:48

What did they say? There's more than one way to skin a cat?

SPEAKER_02 25:50

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 25:53

You know, and People Get Ready was ranked 24th out of 500 songs ever by the Rolling Stone. And it was also the soundtrack to the movie like The Million Man March. What's the movie on the board?

SPEAKER_02 26:06

Get on the bus. Get on the bus. Get on the bus.

SPEAKER_00 26:07

Get on the bus. Yeah, get on the bus. Was um the soundtracks to the million man march. Which did you go to the million man march?

SPEAKER_02 26:16

I did not.

SPEAKER_00 26:16

I was sick.

SPEAKER_02 26:18

I mean, I missed it. Long story.

SPEAKER_00 26:21

When I was in school, they had the buses. When we were in college, they had the buses ready. You know they did for me because I went to HBCU. Um, and I was so sick that week. Like, I missed a whole week of class and everything. Like that, I couldn't. I remember someone came came to knock on my door to get me. He was like, Rance, come on, let's go. And he opened the door and he was like, you know what? You need to stay. You need to stay here, brother. I was so sick.

SPEAKER_02 26:46

I was actually too late. I was actually too late in deciding whether or not to go, to be honest with you. Because I was on the fence. Um because I was thinking, like, wow, what could happen here? You know, like to be honest with you. And I got denied like right at the bus. Cause I I decided like at the very last minute, and it was just too late. Like, I you had to space was filling up, boy. Yeah, you had to kind of like sign up or or or commit to to going in advance. So I thought, like, hey, this, you know, they'll let me on if I if I just show up, right? Yeah. What's what's one more man?

SPEAKER_01 27:21

Yeah, man.

SPEAKER_02 27:22

But I got denied. Uh right, right at the steps of the bus, they were like, uh, we don't have your name here. Or no go.

SPEAKER_00 27:30

No go. Once Curtis Mayfield left in 1970, um, that's when he had his self-entitled album, Curtis, which I believe that's the album that outsold. Was that the album that outsold the Godfather soundtrack? That might have been the album that his album outsold the godfather soundtrack. Like, knock that off. I think it was the Curtis album. Um, but little no fact, I don't know, did you notice that in 1968, because he was fed up, he always wanted to keep his own stuff and he didn't want to get ripped off by the record companies. He founded his own music publishing company called Kurto. Kurto. I didn't know that. He basically owned his music.

SPEAKER_02 28:12

Right.

SPEAKER_00 28:12

Right?

SPEAKER_02 28:13

And and and part of the the the documentary that I watched on him, he's he's being interviewed, right? And um he says He says that he was really, really kind of um insecure about not owning the rights to himself. You know, like he said he he wanted to own as much of himself as he possibly could. And one of the reasons that he got into music in the first place was kind of like the yellow brick road type of mentality, that this is a way to get to all his goals and and his dreams, right? So, but part of that dream was to own as much of himself as as possible, right? And the folks around him, like his peer group, they was they all said that he was extremely savvy in terms of business, right? Like they said that at a time where if he couldn't go get his music, um, you know, get the copyright officially, he would send, he would send it in the mail. Because at the time, like if you send it through the mail, you have an official kind of date stamp.

SPEAKER_00 29:07

Official stamp, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:08

Right, you have official date stamps, so that that would count as sort of a poor man's copyright, they call it.

SPEAKER_00 29:13

Oh, it's like a certified mail almost, it's basically certified, yeah. And it's a copyright.

unknown 29:17

Right, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:18

So you keep that sealed, you basically have proof that you wrote that at a certain time because it's it's the you know, it's the United States Post Office sealing and and certifying that you know, this is the mail, this is the date that it went through. So they would they used to call out a poor man's copyright. So if he didn't have time to right away get to Library of Congress and and and officially get a copyright, he would copyright you using that method too, because he was gonna make sure that he owned the rights to his own his own music, right?

SPEAKER_00 29:46

Yeah, he was ahead of his time, man.

SPEAKER_02 29:48

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:50

You know, and he was the first, I believe he was the first to own his own music, like one of the first to have his own music publishing company, and then he turned that into a full label called Curto Curto as well, and many of Donnie Hathaway's early music came out on Curto Records.

SPEAKER_02 30:10

You know what's funny? It's funny you mentioned that's that that I did not know, right? But it's crazy because as I'm kind of like digging deeper into like Curtis's career, right? Like, I'm thinking to myself, like, wow, like there's a the only person that that I I've I I get that similar feeling from is Donnie Hathaway, right? And I was just thinking that like this this week, Donnie Hathaway has a similar kind of feel when you listen to the music, right? Like, like even Donnie Hathaway, um, when he's when he when he tries to put a message in the music, I shouldn't say tries, but there's a message in Donnie Hathaway's music almost in the same exact way as Curtis Mayfield's music. So it's so I didn't know that fact, but that that doesn't surprise me that much because there's something there, there's there's a synergy there that can't be coincidence, right? There has to be an influence. Um you know, but yeah, that's that's that's a that's an interesting one.

SPEAKER_00 31:06

Yeah, because you know you like that soul. Main loves that soul, he's a soul brother, soul button number one. Nothing's more soulful than Donnie Hathaway, man. You got Donnie Hathaway and Curtis Mayfield.

SPEAKER_02 31:17

Yeah, I'm a I'm a big fan of Donnie Hathaway. I'm also a big fan of Curtis Mayfield. Um I didn't know that they were even like that closely associated. But when you say that, I'm like, oh, that makes sense now. Because Donnie Hathaway, I was thinking about that this week as I'm like kind of researching, and we talked about Curtis Mayfield earlier this week. Donnie Hathaway is the only person that comes close to that feeling, right? Um, yeah, like young gifted. When he sings young gifted in black, um give me some more, give me another one. Give me free.

SPEAKER_00 31:49

Someday we'll all be free.

SPEAKER_02 31:51

Someday we'll all be free.

SPEAKER_00 31:52

Which was actually here's a here's a key. That was written by a white man. Really? Yeah, so it's a really good friend of his. I can't remember the man's name. Um, but he wrote that song for Donnie Hathaway because if you know Donnie Hathaway suffered from mental health issues, yeah, yeah. And he had he had deep, deep dives of depression. You know, so um he wrote this song. They were very close friends, and he wrote this song for Donnie Hathaway specifically because you know he wrote it as like an anthem for a anth a black anthem, but also an anthem for his friend who always suffered from depression. So when he goes, Hang on to the world as it's been like the spin to spin. Yeah, so things don't yeah, so it's like monetized. Oh my god, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:55

So monetized yet or we'd be demonetized, yeah, in a heartbeat.

SPEAKER_00 33:01

So, you know, he was he wrote that song for a for his friend to basically tell him that also makes sense, you know. Like, dude, like you know, get up out of this, you you're talented, you're this, you're that. And it was also like an anthem, so it had a two-in-one meaning.

SPEAKER_02 33:17

That also makes a lot of sense, Rance, because when you when you as you go over those lyrics, it does sound like a friend talking to to another friend, right? Like it's it sounds like somebody that cares about you talking to you directly. Yeah, right, like hang on to the world as it spins around, just don't let the spin get you down. Um things are moving fast, hold on tight and you will last.

SPEAKER_00 33:37

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:38

That that's it it does, it it really sounds like a poem that you would write to a to you to you to a good friend, right? Um, that's deep, man. Yeah, this is getting this getting to the bottom of the ocean. Getting to the bottom of things. Yeah, we're getting to the bottom of this.

SPEAKER_00 33:57

And for those, if you've never listened to Donnie Hathaway, you need to listen to that Donnie Hathaway.

SPEAKER_02 34:02

And also you've heard you've heard of Donnie Hathaway. Like, if you if so, so for those that of you that don't even know or not familiar with Donnie Hathaway, if you heard This Christmas, um, then you've heard Donnie Hathaway. Like anyway, every did it, it did it. Yeah, every Christmas, you you've heard Donnie Hathaway or some version of This Christmas. Um but there's other songs that that you know, like Where is the Love where um Roberta Flat.

SPEAKER_01 34:25

Donnie Flat. Where is the love?

SPEAKER_02 34:29

Yeah, so you've heard you've heard these songs together again, back together again with Roberta Flat. Right.

SPEAKER_00 34:35

Yeah, they sang a few songs together. They had some hits together, they were very close friends.

SPEAKER_02 34:40

So you've heard these songs, um, but you may not have kind of associated them with the artist, right? Like, because that happens a lot of times, especially as generations pass, you know, you hear these songs because they kind of last the test of time, but you don't always associate them exactly, like I said, with the with the artist, because they they last on the radio or they last uh you know for seasons um or whatever the case may be. Or like you said, like every time there's some sort of um particular event where it makes sense, they'll play Curtis Mayfield. Like if there's some sort of um anything that that has to do with especially like if there's some civil rights talk going on, if there's some place where people are gathering and and and there's it has something to do with with a with a fight for their rights or or something like that. Like Curtis Mayfield comes up because he is the person with the soundtrack for that type of thing, right? But I don't think people always associate these songs that they're hearing with the artists anymore, as especially as as time passes, you sort of lose track of like who's responsible for these things. And especially as people do cover songs and things get sampled, yeah, you kind of forget like okay, this came from this person, right?

SPEAKER_00 35:49

And also for the you guys, you Donny Hathaway fans out there as well, and people that don't know who he is, like I said, go you need to listen to him. But one of the slept on songs that he's done, he's done he does a remake on the Donny Hathaway Live album where he does a remake of yesterday by the Beatles.

SPEAKER_02 36:09

I never heard that. I've never heard that.

SPEAKER_00 36:11

Bro. Bro.

SPEAKER_02 36:14

That sounds like something that makes me cry, you know. I I don't want to.

SPEAKER_00 36:17

Let me tell you something, bro. Let me tell you something. You know, you know, um well, the first of all, the cover of Donnie Hathaway Live is like him sweating like Luther Van Joe. You know Luther Van Joe's what's the wedding song that Luther Van Joe sang, and um that's the big time wedding song. Oh, Luther Van Joe's. If this world were mine, no, no, there's a wedding song that Luther has. Well, and in the video, Luther is just sweating, yo. I mean, he is sweating, bro. He has the Jerry Curl action going, he's just sweating. And he's singing. Donnie Hathaway is just singing the heck out of yesterday, written by the Beatles. So it's yesterday by Donnie Hathaway on the Donnie Hathaway Live.

SPEAKER_02 36:58

Yo, he just yo, I don't know if I I don't know when I'm gonna be in the right state of mind to listen to that. Um that sounds like you gotta be in a happy mood first. You gotta start on a certain baseline. Yeah, because it's live too. Yeah, I gotta start out up here before I do that. Like, I I can't I can't listen to that and and and and not be in a great mood because I know that's gonna send me right into shambles. Yeah, like that.

SPEAKER_00 37:27

Yeah, he does a great, he does a great cover that like he just takes in like the highs, he takes it up, he takes it down, you know.

SPEAKER_02 37:33

He has a very emotional um his the sound of his voice is very extremely emotional, man. Like so I could just imagine.

SPEAKER_00 37:41

It sounds like he always sings with his eyes closed. Yeah, like his eyes tightly, tightly closed, and he's he's just singing.

SPEAKER_02 37:48

Yeah, so he sounds like he's always on the verge of breaking down, like like whenever I hear some of his songs, I'm like, wow, is he about to cry? Yeah, man. It's so emotional, man, and it's so soulful that you know, yeah, it's interesting, man.

SPEAKER_00 38:04

He has ties, he has ties to Curtis Mayfield. So even though we did just talk on a tadget, hey, it's it's relevant. We grabbed the thread. Yeah, it's all relevant. We grabbed the thread.

SPEAKER_02 38:14

It's all it's all it's all relevant, man. And he's another one of the, you know, he deserves to be part of the you know, this dead poet society homage, you know, we're paying uh as well, right? So but I didn't know there was that connection. But like I said, like I I felt that already, you know, in a way, you know, because the message and and the and the the the way the music makes you feel is very similar.

SPEAKER_00 38:36

Mm-hmm. And Curtis Mayfield, then he also did the soundtrack to Let's Do It Again. Yeah, yeah, Bill Cosby. Another good one. Bill Cosby, Sidney Portier, and um JJ Jimmy Walker as Bootney Lee Fondsworth, son.

SPEAKER_02 38:55

Yeah, that's another goody. That's a goody.

SPEAKER_00 38:57

Yeah, that was from like so Bill, Bill Cosby and Sidney Portier. I think they did three movies together, right? But they're most famous for Uptown Saturday Night and Let's Do It Again, which is kind of like the series of the third one, what was the third one?

SPEAKER_02 39:11

Like, can you can you name the third one again?

SPEAKER_00 39:12

I can't remember the third one, but they did like a series of movies where they was really hot. But Uptown Saturday, I mean Let's Do It Again.

SPEAKER_02 39:19

They were almost like, what what's what can you compare them to now? Like, like Bad Boys? Like I think that's a bad comparison because it because it wasn't like because Bad Boys is a big budget action film, but I feel like Sidney Portier and Bill Cosby had like a good little run. Um and the chemistry, the chemistry between them on on film was like was insane. Yeah, it was it was so funny, and you don't really see Sidney Portier being funny after that, right? Like Sidney Portier is a serious actor. So when you see him acting alongside Bill Cosby and they're doing a comedy, it really shows like Sidney Portier's you know his his depth and and his breadth of um talent, right?

SPEAKER_00 40:03

Because before I saw that he played the straight man, he was the straight man, and Bill Cosby was the comedy man. So he's plays it's funny, like yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 40:12

Like he's he's the straight man, but yes, that is a perfect that's what that's what I was looking for. Like, what can we compare this to, right? Yeah, so so Dean Martin and Jerry Lewis had a good run, uh, you know, series of movies that they did together, right? Um, and they used to go on stage together too and perform sometimes. But yeah, Dean Martin and Jerry Lewis had their run, but I feel like Bill Cosby and Sidney Portier were like kind of like the black version or the black, you know, the black version of that for us, yeah. Um, in comedy too, right? Um where you had the straight man, like you said, the Sidney Portier who played that straight man, and Bill Cosby would play the the comedic, you know, the comedic friend. Yeah. And and and together, it was like a a really, really good combination, man. I wish they I almost wish they had done more together.

SPEAKER_00 40:59

That movie was hilarious. So um, if anybody, of course everybody knows the notorious B.I.G. R. I, he originally went by the name of Biggie Smalls, and that's where he got the name Biggie Smalls from. Biggie Smalls was the gangster in the movie Um Let's Do It Again. And basically, Let's Do It Again. And wasn't it played, was it played by John Amos? No, he played somebody else. This he's the um uptime um Biggie Smalls was Calvin. I think Calvin Burn. Hold on, I'm gonna look him up. I think his name his name was Calvin Burnett. I almost want to say Calvin Burnett, but okay, but um but but John Burnett.

SPEAKER_02 41:40

But John Amos but John Amos is in the movie, right?

SPEAKER_00 41:42

Yeah, he was the other gangster. His name was hold on, let's hold on, hold on, let's see. Um let's do it again. John Amos was where's the cast? Let's see, John. Let's do it again casts. Calvin Lockhart played Biggie Smalls.

SPEAKER_02 42:00

Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_00 42:01

And and then John Amos played Kansas City Mac. His name is Kansas City Mac.

SPEAKER_02 42:07

Interesting, because now you you so you got Craig Mac coming out with Biggie with Biggie Smalls at the same time. I wonder if if if at the time Diddy Diddy just put those together. Like, you know, I I think maybe Diddy was like, all right, we got Biggie Smalls, we got Mac, you know, Craig Mac. You got Kansas City Mac and Biggie Smalls. That can't just that's a strange coincidence, if that's just coincidence.

SPEAKER_00 42:29

George Foreman was in the movie too, apparently. It's basically about two guys and and Jimmy Jimmy Walker is fighting for the heavyweight championship of the world. And if you've seen good times and you know who Jimmy Walker is, Jimmy Walker is basically a string beamer with arms and legs. Right. And he's fighting for the heavyweight championship of the world. And Sidney Portier was in the military and he learns how to hypnotize people. So he hypnotizes Bootney Lee Fondsworth into being the meanest, toughest um man on the block. And he would go out there and he was whooping up on heavyweight champs in the world, and they were like betting money. It's a fun, it's a funny, it's a funny it's it's hilarious.

SPEAKER_02 43:12

The whole premise is a little bit of a big thing. It's hilarious, man. And let's do it again. And the third movie that they were in together was a piece of the action.

SPEAKER_00 43:18

Piece of the action. Was that the that was the no no Uptown Saturday night was the lottery ticket.

SPEAKER_02 43:24

Yes, yes. That was the lottery ticket. Uptown Saturday Night was the lottery ticket. I don't even remember what a piece of the action was about. Yeah, I gotta go back and and and look into these. Because I f I I definitely forgot about that. Like I thought in my mind I I only had them in two movies together, but um yeah, I know they did a trilogy, but I didn't know the name The Piece of the Action. Yeah, I gotta I gotta go catch all of these somehow. I gotta watch all of these.

SPEAKER_00 43:47

Yeah, but Curtis Mayfield's fingerprints was all over that soundtrack. I think the staple singers win that soundtrack.

SPEAKER_02 43:53

Yeah, the the staple singers actually sing um let's do it again for sure. Yeah, um but it's written by it's written by Curtis Mayfield and the Stable Singers do they do a really good job on that. That song's a classic. Let's do it again if you haven't heard it by the Stablesingers. Definitely highly recommend. Let's do it again by the Staplesingers. Highly recommend if you haven't heard that. That's a great song.

SPEAKER_00 44:14

His pen game was insane, son.

SPEAKER_02 44:16

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. He's prolific.

SPEAKER_00 44:19

He's prolific. And mind you, he's owning everything that he writes.

SPEAKER_02 44:24

Yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? So he's ahead of his time. He's like the prince of uh of that time period. Yeah. Like owning his publishing was like a high priority for him back then. So he definitely influenced a lot of people.

SPEAKER_00 44:41

And then he also wrote, which is probably the soundtrack that he's most known for. Superfly. Yeah. Superfly. Superfly, 1972. And um I have up. I got something. I might have to sing this, right? So we got Little Child Running Wild.

SPEAKER_01 45:01

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:03

Uh uh-oh. Here we go. Little Child. Running wild. Watch a while. You'll see he never smiles. Then the horns come in. You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_02 45:21

I think we get to Jessie. We get to Joseph.

SPEAKER_00 45:23

Then it goes. Broken home. Father gone. Mama tired. So he's all alone. Then the horns come in again. He goes kind of sad. Kind of mad. Ghetto child. Thinking he's been had. And then the horns coming again. He breaks some horns. In the back of his mind, he's saying, didn't have to be here. You didn't have to love for me. While I just while I was just nothing a child, why couldn't they just let me be? Let me be, let me be, let me be. So that's Little Child Running Wild. And one of the things that I did find out when he wrote this soundtrack, when they brought the soundtrack to him, and this was recorded, and it came it actually came out in 1972 before the movie even came out. Um he hated the movie. He did not like the movie.

SPEAKER_02 46:25

I saw that too. I I saw that I saw that in in his um in the documentary about him. They said that he didn't, he didn't, he was really kind of disturbed by the fact that they were they were glorifying the hustler. The hustler in the cocaine game. Yeah. Yeah. They were glorifying the hustler life, and he really tried to write, write a soundtrack that would be the antithesis of that, right? Like it would show you the downside of that life. Um so he wrote Pusher Man and Freddy's Dead and Um songs that would that would end kind of badly, or or songs that would show you the the downside of this. So it would be kind of the anti the antidote to this glorification of the hustler, like he felt, you know? Yeah. But yeah, I I thought that was that was an interesting fun fact. That he actually didn't like the movie.

SPEAKER_00 47:13

Yeah, and his first wife was saying that when he first when he's when he read the script, he wrote a song right away. Like he was on a flight, he had the first song already written. And then he said he didn't want instead of glorifying priests, so the main character's name was Youngblood Priest, I believe. Yeah, Young Blood Priest. And he was looking for his last big score so he can get out of the game.

SPEAKER_01 47:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:34

Um, and so he said instead of glorifying priests, he was gonna write songs that criticized him. So if you listen to the soundtrack, it's nothing glorifying the game at all. It's all like a precautionary tale. All of his songs are like precautionary tales, except for he got the yo, that give me your love, the soundtrack, that song, gimme your love. Man, listen.

SPEAKER_02 47:58

Yeah, he still had to write some bops. Yeah, he had to write, but the funny thing about that, right? The reason why this is so ironic when we say that he didn't like the movie is because that soundtrack is probably one of the most recognizable soundtracks there is, right? Like it's it's at least for that time period and for years later, that soundtrack was kind of the blueprint for a lot of music, man. It's been sampled a lot of times by hip-hop artists. Um, it the songs are so recognizable, man. Like Superfly, Pusha Man, Freddy's Dead. It it's it's it's so kind of tied to that that movie and that that time period that it's just ironic that to find out that he he didn't even like the movie for that reason. But his reasoning makes sense too, because if you if you know anything about Curtis Mayfield, you know about him. Once you learn more about him, you understand that he would not have condoned that, right?

SPEAKER_00 48:52

Yeah. Um he grew up in the church, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:55

And not only that he grew up in the church, but he also there's a consciousness in him, right? Like, like even when you take away, even if you take away the fact that he he grew up in a church, there's such a consciousness in his music prior even prior to this, and then after, that to say, hey, hey, Mr. Mayfield, you want to do a soundtrack about you know it's some it's a movie about this pimp hustler drug dealer that's trying to get out the game, um but and and he's gonna be the hero, right? Um it's something that that goes against his principles, if you know anything about him, right? So I so but it makes sense that he tried to write something that's kind of the antidote to that, but winds up right writing something so good that that would go over people's heads as it definitely went over mine, right? Like I I don't I'm not getting that from this from the soundtrack. When I when I listen to that soundtrack, I'm not getting that he's trying to write something that's against the the hero or the main character. I'm just getting that these songs are are incredible, right? Yeah, and they go perfectly with the movie. So, you know, that definitely would have would have been it, it is it was over my head, right? Like so, but but when I learned that later, it makes a lot of sense.

SPEAKER_00 50:07

Yeah. Ron O'Neill, I think it was Ron O'Neill.

SPEAKER_02 50:10

It was Ron O'Neal.

SPEAKER_00 50:12

My father was in the barbershop, and Ron when he went and got his hair done at the same barbershop as Ron O'Neal, and Ron O'Neill came in and he was telling all the guys in there that he has this movie coming out. He's like, Yeah, man, I got this movie coming out, I'm gonna be this hustler and I'm gonna do this. And everybody's like, Yeah, whatever, man. You know what I'm saying? Get out of here, baby. And then next thing you know, he's super flies in the movie is in the movies, and that's pretty much what Ron O'Neill was known for. He didn't really do much, he had spot bit spot bits from here and there, but he was also in a different world. He played Whitley Gilbert's father in a different world.

SPEAKER_02 50:50

Yes. But he was bald. Yeah, now that you say that, I do remember that. But I I probably at the time I wouldn't have made that connection, but now that you say it, I do remember that.

SPEAKER_00 51:00

Yeah, but that's the no that's the no that he was best known for.

SPEAKER_02 51:03

It's also funny that you said your your your your your dad was getting his hair done, not that he got his hair cut.

SPEAKER_00 51:09

Yes, getting it done. I like that's enough.

SPEAKER_02 51:12

I just want to note that. I just want to note that for that's right.

SPEAKER_00 51:16

That's dudes was out there getting their hair lied, dyed, and laid to the side, son.

SPEAKER_02 51:22

I don't want to let that just just pass without.

SPEAKER_00 51:24

Those potato, those potato cocks.

SPEAKER_02 51:26

Yeah, I don't want to just get him. I didn't want to just let that just go over everybody's head like your dad was getting his hair done.

SPEAKER_00 51:32

Yeah, that that process, he's getting that process done.

SPEAKER_02 51:35

Same as super.

SPEAKER_00 51:36

Wavy wave action.

SPEAKER_02 51:37

Yeah, same place as superfly.

SPEAKER_00 51:39

So as superfly. And I think I wanna I have to ask him again if it was Ray Sugar Ray Robinson's place down in Harlem. Because I know he said he would get his hair done at Sugar Ray Robinson's place down in Harlem back in the day, but yeah, he was there getting he's there getting his process, he was there getting his process.

SPEAKER_02 51:55

He's getting it right. I'm sure he's getting it right.

SPEAKER_00 51:58

It was either his process or his afro, depending on the time. Because motherfucker, but I think it was the process. I think it was the process, it is probably the process. I got a fact of a fiction out with my old man, you know.

SPEAKER_02 52:14

It's a froze.

SPEAKER_00 52:15

When he listens to this, he's gonna be listening like, yo, man, it was the process, bro. You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_01 52:22

Fact facts over froze.

SPEAKER_00 52:24

Facts over froze. But it's interesting, he's mostly associated with doing that whole soundtrack, and you wouldn't know that he was this big like civil rights movement uh singer songwriter back in the day. So that's that's the irony of that is crazy. You know, when I read that he hated it, I was like, ah, it all makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 52:48

It's a completely opposite end of the of the spectrum for him, right? Like it and you when you drug suppose those two things, it just doesn't really fit. But the music, like I said, is so incredible that it's like, eh, who cares? Like it's you gotta make a dollar sometimes. You just gotta make a buck. And and and he tried his best, I think he tried his best to make it make sense by like like in his own, like in his words, he was trying to make something that that was kind of um against the the the hero of the story and making it kind of the antithesis of what they were trying to do in the movie, which is glorify this um this lifestyle, right?

SPEAKER_03 53:26

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 53:26

Um, so it it all made it all makes sense, but but regardless of that, um the music is just incredible anyway, right? Like the body of work is undeniable, right? So even when he even when he's trying to to like kind of wiggle out of it, like he can't help but to be a genius and still be great.

SPEAKER_00 53:44

Who was Freddie? Was Richard Pryor Freddie?

SPEAKER_02 53:47

And um no, I don't think so. Nah, Richard Pryor wasn't Freddie. He wasn't Freddie? Uh I'm I'm fairly certain. No, no, no, no, no. It was I'm I'm pretty I'm pretty sure that's Richard Pryor.

SPEAKER_00 53:59

I'm thinking about the way that Richard Pryor was in. You see that the whack one, the 2018 one, right?

SPEAKER_02 54:07

Well, I'm not gonna say it was whack. I'm just gonna say that that's it's the the remake of Superfly that came out, you know, later in later years, but um that's the first thing that that comes up, obviously, because it's the most important thing. Carl Lee. Carl Lee.

SPEAKER_00 54:22

No, no, no. Charles McGregor was Fat Freddy.

SPEAKER_02 54:26

Okay. Yeah, I knew it. I knew it wasn't Richard Pryor. I remember Richard Pryor was was like the um kind of the the side man in in the in the Mac.

SPEAKER_00 54:35

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking about, the Mac. When he's like, I ain't no track star. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's the Mac that that um with Goldie.

SPEAKER_02 54:43

Yeah, yeah, he was Goldie's man in the Mac.

SPEAKER_00 54:47

Um so yeah, so he he he's he tried to write about the pitfalls of the life of the cocaine dealing Pimpuzzler.

SPEAKER_01 54:58

Right.

SPEAKER_00 54:59

Young blood, young blood priest. Also, we forgot to mention how uh Move On Up was if you listen to Kanye and you listen to like all of these soul producers, yeah, yeah. Heavy, heavy.

SPEAKER_02 55:16

So Tuck the Sky by Kanye West Sky is a sample from um Move On Up.

SPEAKER_00 55:22

Yeah, with those horns.

SPEAKER_02 55:26

Mary J. Blige also has a sample, not that she created, you know, she's not the producer of it, obviously, but Be Happy Um sample. The song Be Happy by Mary J. Blige samples You're so good to me um by Curtis Mayfield. So yeah, interesting stuff, man. Um and I'm sure that we could like we could stay here all day and name probably a lot of hip-hop songs that that um that actually sample Curtis Mayfield because he was definitely extremely influential um on hip-hop, similar to um to gil to Gil Scott era, right? Yeah, another um, you know, Chicago's finist. But yeah, so yeah, so he was he was definitely a big influence on on um on hip-hop.

SPEAKER_00 56:12

His music defined the hip-hop soul era, which Kanye brought into play. Like James Brown defined the 80s boom bap with like the bomb squad for with Public Enemy and stuff. Everybody used the James Brown boom bap, the one and Cameron on the one, like James Brown basically, basically fathered all of 80s hip hop, so to speak, with with that, with those drums.

SPEAKER_02 56:35

Yeah, his drums are on on all over all over 80s.

SPEAKER_00 56:39

All over the place. And he just kept, they asked him about it. He was like, yo, keep the checks coming in. I love it. You know, if you love public enemy, you're listening to most of James Brown's drops and beats by the bomb squad. Heavy laden James Brown music. And then with the Kanye West's, the Just Blaze, who have um who else was like a soul? I'm sure I'm wondering I'm I bet you Jay Diller probably had to have sampled some of um something through Curtis Mayfield. I gotta look through to see if it's I'm sure he Curtis has some fingerprints on Jay Dillers working Pete Rock, you know, with those horns. So he heavily influenced the soul era of of like the 2000s hip hop.

SPEAKER_01 57:21

Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 57:22

You know? Um so his estate is probably still getting getting checks. You know, those mail, those, those checks are in the mail for his estate with the music and the sampling of all the platinum-selling albums and songs that have sampled his music and used his music, the soundtrack. I'm sure Superfly soundtrack is probably still selling to this day. Uh he has the Let's Do It Again soundtrack, all the music that he wrote for the staples singers. Um he had Donnie Hathaway on his first on his first full label. Claudine. Claudine with that fine Diane Carroll, son.

SPEAKER_02 58:01

And doing that whole soundtrack, you know, like that whole soundtrack is written by Curtis Mayfield. So Mr. Welfare is on that on that soundtrack. I guess it I guess like if you're not into this, like you wouldn't know these songs. Um but um Make Yours a Happy Home, um, to be invisible.

SPEAKER_03 58:19

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 58:20

Wow. Yeah, he had a lot of he had a lot of deep, deep songs on on that soundtrack. Like he had a lot of deep songs, period.

SPEAKER_00 58:28

But um that's like that babyface before babyface, because you know babyface penned that whole wait until exhale, like the entire thing.

SPEAKER_02 58:35

Right. Right. So yeah. I think he just did it like a tiny desk or was or some sort of like um little mini concert, like where he where he said.

SPEAKER_00 58:45

It was just the wait until exhale soundtrack.

SPEAKER_02 58:47

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 58:48

Yeah, I think he did that last year.

SPEAKER_02 58:50

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 58:51

Imagine just penning an entire soundtrack.

SPEAKER_02 58:56

Yeah. It's another, yeah, like it's another prolific writer, um, babyface. So for sure. Yeah, he's yeah, Curtis Mayfield was was before all of this, right? Like he Curtis Mayfield even influenced like Marvin Gaye and Stevie Wonder, right? And like especially the message. Bob Marley. Right. Bob Marley. Like when you when you talk about any artist that had a message, um, it seemed like Curtis Mayfield was the first to have the kind of like the I don't know what you call it, like courage or consciousness, or or just this combination of the of both, to come out and just say what he actually thought about um what was happening in society through his music, right? Um he had a song called Darker than Blue.

SPEAKER_00 59:39

He had a song, um, we need about darker than blue.

SPEAKER_02 59:42

We need peace. Um, so he was speaking directly to like the Vietnam soldiers in Vietnam because he knew that most of them, and on the front lines at least, there was a lot of black and brown folks on the front lines in Vietnam. So he was writing songs that spoke directly to them at the time, right? Um, I think it was like Back to the World was another one.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:01

Um, where in his documentary, like they interviewed a soldier that had come back from Vietnam, and he said that back to the world was one of the things that kept them, kept their mind right. Because that was something that they would say to each other, like, hey, how many days do you go back to the world? And that was their way of saying, like, you know, getting back to the United States, getting getting back home. Right.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:21

Um, we need peace was another one. Um so he was writing definitely with with the people in mind. He's like the people's champ, you know?

SPEAKER_03 1:00:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:31

Um, regardless of of record sales and regardless of of um radio play, he was the people's champ. And I think that was a big heavy influence on the other artists that would that would follow. Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:43

Yeah. And some of the and some of the artists, as you said, here's a list. I wrote down some of the Jimi Hendrix, of course, who is arguably the greatest guitar player of all time, who they say is is heavy, his playing is heavy.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:56

Greater than Eric Clapton. Is he greater than Eric Clapton, you think?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:00

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:01

No, I'm just I'm just messing around. Shout out to Eric Clapton. Shout out to Jimi Hendrix.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:09

Yeah. Bob Marley, Tracy Chapman, Sly Stone, Marvin Gaye, Stevie Wonder, and Sinead O'Connor listed him as one of her her uh her influences in music. And it was the the songs they said, Castles Made of Sand and Drifting by Jimi Hendrix. They said if you listen to those songs in particular, you'll you'll hear the heavy influence of of Curtis Mayfield in the way that Jimi Hendrix played his guitar on those songs. So, you know, those are big names. Those are heavy hits.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:42

Yeah, those are all legends in their own right, right? Like so Curtis Mayfield is is the inspiration for for the legends. He's the he's your he's he's he's your your favorite artist, favorite artist, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:53

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:54

Um so yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:56

Unfortunately, though, in 1990, um at the Brooklyn Wingate field in Flatbush, he was performing, and he was in an accident that paralyzed him from the neck down, some lighting fell on him from above.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:11

Yeah. And from what I was reading, it was a terrible storm, like 50 mile an hour uh winds and rains coming in so much so like it blew the first two rows of seating. And the promoter decided to to still let the show go on. And just as he got on stage, they said the wind was so so bad that his his drummer cymbals like blew off and he had to catch them just in time. That's how bad the wind was. And and then when he got on stage, this lighting fell on him and broke like three of his vertebrae. I think they said C3, C4, C5, and left him paralyzed from the neck down. When he woke, he said he didn't even he didn't even realize he didn't even remember what happened to him. He didn't know. He didn't he knew what would happen to him. He just like woke up in the hospital, and that was pretty much, of course, the end of his playing career. And he still sang and wrote, but he he he found out, he he wrote a he still wrote and he I think he he sang a couple more songs uh that he wrote and he realized that he wasn't able to sing while sitting up.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:18

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:19

Because because he was uh what what is that a paraplegic from the neck? Or is it the quadriaplegic from the neck down?

SPEAKER_02 1:03:26

Yeah, from the neck down he's quadriplegic, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:28

But what he realized is that he can lay down on his back and let gravity take over and like push help push the the air through his lungs, and he he was able to sing lying on his back. So he's still working in his last days, and and you thought that would kill him, but what actually killed him was he died of type 2 diabetes. Really? I didn't know that either. Yeah, he died of type 2 diabetes in 1999. Let me see.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:55

Yeah, it was it was the December 1999. I know he passed. Yeah, like it was December 1999, but I didn't I didn't know that it that he died of diabetes.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:05

Yeah, he died of type 2 diabetes. Um he survived by 10 children. He had 10 children, yo.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:11

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:12

Yeah, yeah, he was prolific.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:14

Yeah, he was prolific.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:16

Yeah, he was prolific. He was married twice and he had 10 children. Yeah. Um so he was prolific. So that's how that's how his journey, his journey ended, unfortunately. He died in 1999. He was born in what 42, so that made him 57 57.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:36

He was 57.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:37

He was 48 when um the accident happened.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:41

Right. And another fact about that, um, he they said that the last song that he recorded before that accident was with Ice T.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:50

Oh, the the oh yes, that's right. You remember the name of it?

SPEAKER_02 1:04:55

I think it's called Superfly 1990 or something like that.

unknown 1:04:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:59

Um, because that accident happened in 1990.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:02

Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:03

And um, but yeah, I mean, unfortunately, like, you know, it's just crazy, man, like that something like that would happen to somebody that that is doing so much kind of good in the world, and yeah, and some somebody has such a great talent, right? It's it's tragic for that to happen to anyone, but it feels doubly tragic when it happens to somebody like that, right? And um when he was when I I watched an interview with him, and he was by this point he was he was he had had the accident and he was he was at his home in Atlanta, and um the interviewer asked him like what he was doing, because this was like recent after after the accident, after he he was, you know, he was he was home for a while. And the interviewer asked him what he was doing with all his ideas, right? Well, you know, being such a prolific writer, he asked him like what are you doing with with the ideas now? And and and Curtis Mayfield kind of made the point that um he he feels like he still has the ideas, but without the ability to To quickly jot them down, or without the ability to get in the studio and and just play around and put put them to some music, he said that they would fade away sometimes like dreams.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:10

And that was like heartbreaking, you know, to hear.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:14

And obviously, like like you said, like he found a way. Like he found a way to lay on his back and and and sing the songs kind of slowly or or a few lyrics at a time. And then the technology got to the point where they could stitch together the lyrics. Like the same, kind of the same as rappers do today. Yeah. Um, where you could kind of punch in. Um, you say a little you say a few lines and they'll keep punching it in until you're done. He was doing something similar to that, like where he would say some lyrics um because his diaphragm was obviously paralyzed. Yeah. Um, so he had to kind of say a few lyrics, kind of rest, and then do some more, right? Yeah. Um but it just it like I said, it it just like it just feels like doubly tragic when something like that happens to somebody that's producing um and kind of bringing so much life to the world, you know, in terms of their art, you know. Yeah, but but it's still like it doesn't take anything away from the blessing that he was to the world, you know. Yeah. And to have 10 children, like you said, he's he was pretty prolific and on and off the stage, right? On and in and out of the studio. So so that's that's also that's also a blessing.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:24

Yeah, and he has the the most distinct voice. Like, you know him, his falsetto. I I think the only person who comes close to his falsetto that I know of personally would be like Ron Isley.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:34

Like they have Yes, like in terms of like recognize the recognizable falsettos, yeah, would be like Ron Isley. Eric Bennet would be pissed at us right now if if if he could hear us say that. But um, you know, shout out to Yeah, that's true. But but his powerful Maxwell would probably want to fight too. But anyway. Probably saying there's a few falsettos out there that might be mad at this, but they would, I think they would also admit that Curtis Mayflower has one of the most distinctive, and Ron Isley has as probably one of the most distinctive as well. Like when it comes down to like classic, classic, you know. Yeah, so so there you go.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:21

Shout out to them. Shout out to them. It would be dope if Maxwell and Eric Bene actually heard us.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:28

I'll probably they're probably not gonna hear this.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:31

They're never gonna hear this anyway, but you ended up saying them.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:35

Like if you know Eric Bene or if you know Maxwell, tell him we said Main and Ranch said that Curtis Minifield has the most distinctive falsetto ever of all time. Followed closely by Ron Isley, and that's it. Tell him Main and Ranch said it.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:54

Oh, man. Oh, you know what? You know what? Before we go to a quick to go back to Donnie Hathaway.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:01

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:02

And when you said Eric Binet, it automatically made me remember. I I saw uh an interview with Eric Binet, and Eric Binet was friends with Bill Weathers.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:12

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:12

And he was telling a story how apparently Bill Weathers and Donnie Hathaway were really close. They were really close friends, almost like best friends.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:21

Were you?

SPEAKER_00 1:09:22

And yeah, and Bill Weathers said that he was he was in LA or California. He was about to do a recording. He's about to record in the studio, and he got a call from Donnie Hathaway. And Donnie Hathaway was really down and telling him, like, yo, brother, I need you. I need you, brother. You know? So he automatically, because the way he sounded, and he said, you know, this is my friend, like, I need you. He jumped right on a plane and headed to New York. Right? And uh he said he he got to the he got to New York and he couldn't find Donny Hathaway. Then when he finally he got him, finally found him, he was like, yo, brother, I'm here. What you need? He was like, Oh man, but you know what? Don't even don't worry about it. I'm I'm good. I feel fine. I'm good now. He said he was so mad that he cussed him out. He's like, yo, I just flew from the West Coast to the East Coast. You know, like I just flew from the West Coast to the East Coast because you said you needed me and you was down bad, and I'm here. Now you always and Donny Hathaway was just when he got there, he was like, What? What you doing here? Like, oh I'm good. Don't know everybody, you good, you you can leave, you can go back now. And he was like, Go back, you know what I had to do to get this studio time to book this studio and all this. And he said he was so mad and so upset with him, and then he got he got on the plane and he went back to California, and as soon as he touched down, he got the call that Donnie Hathaway had died.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:50

Oh, yeah. No way.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:53

Yeah, he said as soon as he went back, as soon as he touched back down, and he got I heard Eric Bernay told that's told that story. I just heard that story. I think he was on he was on a podcast and he was telling the story about it, and he was like, he got back. When he got back, that's when and and he had I think he you know the stories the story switch changed whether he jumped or he fell off the balcony of his room at in uh I forgot what hotel here in New York City.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:21

Oh man.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:22

But yeah, yeah, so you know, depression is real, you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:26

Yeah, that's heartbreaking, man. That's heartbreaking.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:29

Yeah, you know, and and the la the last thing he did was like fussing him out.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:36

Yeah, the fun it was a funny story up until Yeah, and then it takes a twist.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:39

Yeah, you know, so but yeah, that's a little that's a little tidbit of information about uh that that some of when you said Eric Bernay, that just that just jogged my memory. I just heard that story like last month, a few weeks ago last month. So, you know, R.I.P. to all of these guys, RIP, gone but not forgotten, and the music will always live on. We always have this music. Go check, go listen, stream it, buy it, Spotify it, Apple Music it, whatever you you listen to, Pandora it, whatever you listen to your to your to music on. Check out that Curtis Mayfield and that Donny Hathaway and that yesterday remake by uh Donny Hathaway, the remake of the Beatles yesterday, Donnie Hathaway Live.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:19

Yeah. Make sure you're in really good spirits, brother. Make sure you're real in really good spirits before you listen to Donnie Hathaway sing yesterday. I haven't heard it yet myself, but I can only imagine that it's it's that's an emotional time listening to that.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:36

Um no, I didn't I didn't have anything else, man. Like I I think I think we covered it, man. I think we covered it.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:42

Alright. So this concludes our latest episode, episode 40 of the Episode 40. Episode 40.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:52

It's a little milestone, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:54

12 episodes away from our one-year anniversary, 12 weeks away. That's right. That's right.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:03

40 episodes is a little milestone in and of itself. So, you know, shout out to us.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:08

Yeah, yeah, that's that's I can't believe I can't even believe it, man.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:13

Like it this goes from like an idea and a and a conversation to we're 40 episodes in, and hopefully, you know, the people listening to us, they're enjoying us, and um, you know, they're getting something out of it in terms of like what we originally set out to accomplish was to be obviously entertaining and obviously to have fun because we're you know, we spend a lot of time laughing at our own jokes, but hopefully, hopefully we're giving out information and we're adding value and it's somewhat entertaining as well to you guys out there listening to us. And again, like it's 40 episodes to me. That's a milestone in and of itself, like I said. And um, I just wanted to say thanks to whoever's out there listening, people downloading, people streaming it. If you're listening to us on on your, you know, wherever you get your podcast, if you're watching us now on YouTube, if you're if you're following us on social media, um, especially Instagram, um you know, shout out to you because it's it's kind of an honor that that people even reach back out to us and and and know what we said on this thing, right? Like it's it's always interesting to me. It never gets old when somebody mentions something that we talked about on the podcast. Yeah. Um so I always get a thrill out of that. Like when somebody says or references something back to me, um, I I get a kick out of it. It never gets old, and I hope it continues. Um, because that's why we're doing it. Like we're, you know, not only for ourselves, but for for you guys out there to get some value of it or out of it, or or to relate to something that we're saying, or to to just um have a thought sparked, you know. Even if I like it even when people correct us on things, right? Like we do a fact over funny sometimes because of you guys out there, we might say something, and you might say, you know what, that's not exactly correct. Or somebody might give me more information um that kind of just just causes me to learn even more, right? So all of it is is is is great, all of it is of value, and um just um just thanks again, you know. Thanks to everybody.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:11

Yeah, thank you. And we promise when Maine and Rance become famous podcasters. We promise we won't forget our now day 40s, uh day ones, and everybody else in between. And as usual, and as always, we definitely not forget you our day one, day one. And shout out, special shout out too, because um, you know, when I'm in the gym and I'm walking in the gym, people come up to me and say that they listen to the podcast. And I want to take space two names in particular, Susan and Declan. I know you guys always listen. They always come to me, they tell me that they like the podcast, they're always asking me what's the next episode. Um, and they're right here with us on every episode. You know what I'm saying? I know that we do a lot of things.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:55

Shout out to them.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:56

Yeah, we we're always like every week, like clockwork. And you know why, right, Main? Because we are prolific. That's right, my brother. We are prolific. We're putting out a podcast every week. So we know some of you guys may be just in the 20s, in the teens, in the single digits, but you know, we want to say thank you. We're grateful that you are listening to us. Uh, and for you guys that are totally caught up, you know we appreciate you guys as well. So, like I said, we're not gonna forget y'all where Maynard Rats are famous podcasters because we're getting it out the mud.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:34

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:37

So we will be back the same gen next time, the same gen next place, and we will see you guys next week. Peace and power to the podcast.