Gen-Xpertise
Gen-Xpertise podcast has been created with the goal of giving Generation X a voice, space and platform to share real stories, expertise, and nostalgia while navigating midlife.
Our hope is that we've launched a trusted platform that speaks to Gen-Xers’ needs – career, family, finances, health, legacy, etc. while also having some fun in the process.
Gen-Xpertise
Ep 43: "My Mind's Playing Tricks On Me"
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
In this episode, we continue the theme for Men's Health Awareness Month which we're calling "Month of the Man. We tackle the important topic of men’s mental health. From the pressures of providing for a family to the challenges of aging, relationships, and career changes, many men struggle in silence. Join us as we discuss why mental health matters, the barriers that keep men from seeking help, and practical ways to build resilience, connection, and emotional well-being.
#GenXpertisePodcast #MensMentalHealth #MentalWellness #GenXMen #BreakTheStigma
Intro and Outro music by Erin Garris and Khari Garris
Instagram: @gen_xpertise ;
youtube: https://youtube.com/@gen_xpertise_podcast?si=URb-am50BnOzBYEb
tiktok: @the_genxpertise_podcast
Bluesky: @genxpertisepodcast.bsky.social
Yo yo yo, what it is, what it was, what's it gonna be? Welcome to the latest episode of the Gen Expertise Podcast, episode 43, entitled My Mind's Playing Tricks on Me. We are your host, Maynard Rantz, and we aren't therapists. We just placed them on TV.
SPEAKER_03Right.
SPEAKER_01What up, dogs? What up, what up, what up? Everything's good, man. No complaints, man. We got a little heat heat over here in the NYC. At the time of this uh release, actually, but at the time of this taping, we are up 2-0 on those San Antonio Spurs. So it's 10 boots over cowboy boots, yo.
SPEAKER_02The city is still standing.
SPEAKER_01The city is still standing, my guy. That's right. That's right. So hopefully if you're not.
SPEAKER_02I know you you've seen it, but I've only seen video. Have you seen the videos of the people out outside the the like outside the garden and outside the parks and just everywhere throughout the city, even though the game is in San Antonio, it felt like the game might as well have been like at the garden the way people were out in the street.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah, man. It was it's a good thing.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I don't recall ever seeing anything like this, man.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's really this might be a literally a once-in-a-lifetime um situation, bro.
SPEAKER_02It's like Haley's comedy or something. I I don't know what is going on crazy. No, it's good to see those.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, man. So we're up to zero, and at the time this comes out, since we drop every Wednesday, if we're lucky, by the time this episode is over, and it's Thursday, we would have won the NBA championship. If we're lucky, that's if we get the sweep, you know.
SPEAKER_02Oh, yeah, that would be crazy. By the time this comes out. That would be crazy. That would be something. We'd be on the sweep.
SPEAKER_01Or we'd be up 3-1. Hopefully, we'll be up 3-1 at the very, very least. But best case scenario, the brooms come out. Right.
SPEAKER_02That would be insane, too. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, straight up and down. Straight up and down. Dogs. It's gonna like, I don't even, I don't even know, man. You can't even predict it. It's gonna be so absurd. It's gonna be good.
SPEAKER_02I was joking with somebody. I'm like, they're gonna have to like tie down the Statue of Liberty or something to keep them from like tipping it over. I don't know if that's possible, but I feel like something's gonna happen that's gonna be insane. Like they might steal the Staten Island ferry and just go for a joyride or something. I could just see something really, really out of the ordinary happening.
SPEAKER_01What do they say? It's gonna be a vibe.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's gonna be a vibe, alright.
SPEAKER_01So we're going back to this is the month of the man. This is our second episode into the month of a man series. My mind's playing tricks on me, and we're gonna talk about mental health today.
SPEAKER_02Before we before we start, man, I have a fact over funny really quick. Okay. And I'll keep I'll keep this as quick as I can, right? But in the last episode, we talked about our fathers, right? And and I and I had said that I couldn't think of like one particular thing that my father had told me, right? William, we talked about like what what piece of advice do you remember getting from your father, right? And in general, you know, my father just kind of nudged me in the right direction depending on the um depending on the circumstance. And it felt like it was mostly um situational, right? But I had but I had to think about it, and um, it came to me that one time, something that stuck with me for the rest of my life, actually, he did tell me, right? Like this is when I was really young. Um, and this is just one of the things that stuck out. And I'll keep it brief, but this is back when I was living in um, I was living on Fordham Road at the time, and a friend of mine knocked on our door. Like I had to be like, I had to be no more than eight years old at the time. But one of my friends knocked on our door, and I opened the door and I was kind of surprised to see him, and he asked for, he said his mother had sent him to borrow a cup of sugar, right? Uh-huh. And and I hadn't, you know, like I didn't know. I'm I'm like, okay. Like I didn't, I didn't think much of it. So I go back and my and my brother's there. And um, my brother's like, who's that? And I'm like, oh, it's my friend, you know, I'm not gonna say the name, but um it's a friend of mine, and he and he was and my brother was like, for some reason, my brother goes, like, what does he want? I'm like, well, he wants to borrow a cup of sugar. And he's like, tell him we don't have no sugar. And I don't know what I don't know why that was his take on it, you know. But but I went to the door and I felt bad, like, but I was like, you know, I didn't know what to do. Like my brother's like nine years older than me or whatever. So he's like, Yeah, tell him we don't have no sugar, we're not giving nobody no sugar, right? And um, so I went to him, I'm like, sorry, man, we don't have any sugar. And I felt sick about it, you know? Yeah. And I I could I and I was barely processing what was happening, you know. I at I was eight years old, like I didn't really know what was happening or um realize kind of the significance of it until I went to the kitchen and my father was in the kitchen. And he and he, you know, he knew that somebody had come to the door. So he asked me, like, hey, who was that? What happened? And I was like, Oh, that was my friend so-and-so. And he said, What did he what happened? What did he want? Um I said, he came to borrow a cup of sugar. He's like, Well, where is he? Like, what's what's going on? And I said, Um, you know, I didn't, I don't want to say my brother's name in this, but but I told him, like, you know, I was told to tell him that we don't have any sugar. And my father said, Listen, listen to me well, right? He said, Don't ever turn somebody away that's coming to ask for food. You know. Um there's a lot of things you you can say no to, but if you have it, don't ever turn somebody away that's that comes here asking for food. All right. And I was like, Yeah, right. And I got it. Just that quick, right? It was very, it was, it wasn't like a big speech he made. Um, and and he didn't, he wasn't like mad about it, even he didn't yell at me or anything. He just told me just like that, just kind of like, you know, as far as I can remember, it was just that calm and and cool. He was just like, listen, don't ever turn somebody away to ask you for food. And I kind of like carried that for the for the rest of my life. Like, it like I it because it I guess in my family, like if somebody came over, the first thing they asked you was like, hey, did you eat? Or like, you know, do you want something to eat? It was almost like their way of showing love, right? Like, for better or worse, um, that's how that was kind of their love language, was to share food. Like, no matter who it was, if I had company coming over, like if I had a friend stop by to hang out with me, they will always make sure that that person ate. Um so that's just something I that that was just one thing, man. Like I I'm sure, like I said, there's there's probably many others, but I just wanted to correct that because that has stuck with me for so long, and I and I forgot about it at the time that we were having a conversation. Um, but yeah, that that was that was just something that that, like I said, it was really significant to me because it stuck with me for forever.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. That's you know, when you're from the south, you break out the food for company. When you're from up north, you break out the liquor.
SPEAKER_02Well, you know what? Like, I yeah, I think my father did a little bit of both, and you know, over the years, like I've I've I've seen both, you know, food and liquor has as come out. Food and liquor for sure. Yeah, but you better turn away.
SPEAKER_01That's a good lesson right there. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00That's a good lesson. So, Bay, have you ever seen a therapist before?
SPEAKER_02Uh, why do you ask? No. Yeah, I mean, that's a it's funny you ask in that way because that that leads me to thinking about like this topic, right? And um, before before I answer that, right? Like, I I want to kind of like be really sensitive about this because you know, you and I, we make a lot of jokes, um, but we always stress that we want to be kind of adding value, right? And we want to um we want to give people good information and we want to be the the a podcast that you know you you're entertained by, but at the same time, you could trust that what we're telling you is is is kind of in everybody's best interest and and we're we're thoughtful about what we're conveying, right? So with a topic like this, we're talking about mental health. Um this goes without saying, right? Like Rance and I are not mental health professionals. Like when we speak, we speak from like our own personal experience perspective. We try to at least, and any like information that we do give that's that's based on facts is really based on like our own research, or we even give you like a book, or like we'll we try to guide you towards a professional in some cases, right? Like we know we call gender expertise, but we can't possibly be the experts in every single thing that we're talking about, and eventually, you know, hopefully like we we start to have guests on here that that can kind of um augment or supplement some of that. But but the idea here is that we talk from our personal experience. I just want to put that out there before I even answer that first question, which is kind of removed. Yeah, yeah, like like you know, um, but but to answer your question, man, um yeah, I've I've definitely seen a therapist. I'm not consistently. Um, I feel like it there's been some situations where I've gone to see a therapist just to talk out some issues that were happening like right in that moment. But I d I don't but I feel like I I never was consistent about it. I never had a therapist that I was going to on a regular basis. Um the more like I think about this, I'm like, maybe I should have been. You know, like maybe for at some periods of my life at least, there were times where I should have talked to somebody and it would have made things a lot clearer for me. And um, it would have helped me through some situations where I just kind of toughed it out, right? Like because when when we're talking about this topic, I feel like a lot of us tend to just kind of tough it out, or we feel like going to see somebody or even talking about our problems has a stigma associated, or it makes us weak. Like we're Gen Xers, right? So Gen Xers out there, you know that there's been like a there's like a stigma attached, like especially for for black Gen Xers in particular, too, and I can speak from that perspective, like talking about your problems with anybody is kind of taboo and at some level, right? Um until we got a little older and it became like something that you you did on a regul on a more regular basis, and we kind of came to terms with the fact that everybody at some point needs help. Growing up, um, you know, you kind of kept your business to yourself, and especially if you were having any sort of issue, um, if you were feeling kind of sad or depressed or anxious, you kind of like I said, you didn't want to feel like you were weak or vulnerable in front of anybody. So that that wasn't even something that you would talk to with with a close trusted friend, let alone a therapist, right? Um it was just something that we didn't even know for a long time. I'm gonna be honest with you, we didn't even know that existed. Like that there were that there were professionals for us that we could go talk to. Um, and if there was, like we that's something you saw on TV, basically. Like it's it just was not really you knew it existed, I guess, I should say, but it just wasn't part of our reality, right? Coming up. Like nobody really did that. Yeah. But the answer is But the short answer is yes. Yeah, I have so much.
SPEAKER_01The closest thing that we got to was our guidance counselors when we got to high school. That was the closest thing that we had when I was like, what's like that was almost like therapists for young teenage boys. I personally have never gone to see a therapist.
SPEAKER_02But you know, you know, like and and just real quick before I forget, like, you know what's so crazy about that, and I I'm using the word crazy, I apologize. I mean, what's so uh, you know, I guess coincidental about what you're saying, um, is that when you mentioned the therapy, not the therapist, but the counselor in the high school, I never went to the to my counselor at high school. Like, I I never ever went to the counselor at high school. Yeah, like not even to talk about college admissions, not for anything. Because I I think somewhere in me, and and I can't blame anything, anybody for this or or blame this on any sort of cultural thing or or or like a you know a family thing or anything. I think it was just me. I'd I just figured like I could I'll figure it out myself. Like I'd I I just didn't want to ask for help. And that that lasted a long time. That lasted way past high school that I had this feeling like I shouldn't be asking for help. Um but yeah, but go.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, because like I didn't go to our guidance counselors either, and it wasn't until I think when we we were juniors, we got we actually got two black guidance counselors, and they were for like the younger kids, and we used I used to go to them. That's the closest that I that I came to to go into uh to using the guidance counselors. Um but yeah, I've never I've never used a therapist. I know I know some therapists, um, and I guess I've unofficially talked with therapists, but I haven't sat on any couches.
SPEAKER_02Interesting. And and and I I also know a couple of therapists, um, and I have had some informal conversations where I've just gotten their perspective on things, which is also helpful, but not I don't think it's as it's it's not in in the same way as if you were having like an official session with them, right? Um Yeah. But yeah, that's that's interesting.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and you know, like you said, it's kind of like I guess taboo for males in general to seek to seek therapy. But I just in general, I just didn't feel like they could relate to me. I didn't feel like those guys can relate to me. They were like white dudes from Hartsdale or something, and we were black kids from the Bronx. There was one time that I tried to tell him something, and he looked at me like I had foreheads, and I was like, yo, I'm never coming to you again, dogs. I'm never coming here to speak to you again.
SPEAKER_02So the other funny thing about the the when we were in senior year in high school, the guidance counselor um had a conversation with my parents, I guess my mother, right? He told my mother, I don't know if I told this story before on a previous episode. I may have, right? But the the counselor actually told my mother not to expect me to go to college, like not to get her hopes up on me going to college, right? And for everybody listening in the audience, um Rance and I went to Fordham Prep in the Bronx. And the full name of it is Fordham Preparatory High School, right? And the preparatory part is they're preparing you for college, right? The whole point of going to this school is pretty much to prepare you to go to college, right? Fordham Preparatory High School. So at the Fordham Preparatory High School, which is a very competitive school in the Bronx, this guidance counselor is telling my mother not to get her hopes up, you know, for me going to college, right? Like, and this is me, like, you know, for a long time being on the honor roll, you know, you know, senior, senior year, I may have fallen off a little bit, right? But not to the point of her having any doubt that I was gonna get accepted to a college, right? Like, you know, let alone like maybe any maybe anyone that I applied to at the time, but like, but I'm definitely going somewhere, right? So my mother told me the story much later in life. She never told me that he said it. Like at the time, she just kind of ignored him and she just didn't tell me. And years later, you know, long after I had already graduated from college and you know, I was in the workforce by the time I think she told me the story. But she told me, like, yeah, she said she completely ignored it. But I guess that's part of what you what what you were just saying about them not being able to relate to you. Because I I I think that maybe we had to go to some sessions in in in group. And um, he probably found me to be like kind of like not really interactive and and not asking a lot of questions. Um and I I did also have the general feeling that he just couldn't relate to me and and that this is not a person I should be asking for help, right? And and you you're thinking about this is us at like 17, 18 years old, and that's just how we felt. Like what it didn't feel like a safe place exactly to to for that, you know. So um, and I guess he took it like, you know, this person is not interested in even going to college because they're not asking me for for help, right? Um, but it wasn't that. It's just I I felt like I I needed to do a lot of the stuff myself.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So that's enough right off the bat to kind of scare somebody away from ever going to any type of therapist ever again. If that's one of your first experiences with someone who's there to give you advice to help you.
SPEAKER_02And and and I think some of it honestly like is kind of a uh inherited like a bias, right? Like I gotta admit, like on my part, um I didn't really give the person much chance to help me, right? And and if they took it as if, okay, if this person's not asking for help, then they then they obviously don't they don't want um they don't want the end goal, right? Like he because he's thinking, like, okay, he's not asking me for help, so he doesn't want the end goal, which he which he perceives to be getting into college, like filling out all these applications. And um, and I guess he couldn't even fathom that I could do all this stuff myself. Like I could fill out the applications and get them in on time and you know, make sure that my parents are working with me on the financial aid packages and all that stuff. Like, I think he just couldn't fathom that somebody's just going off and doing this themselves and not really asking for any, any, any help at all. So, but you're right. I mean, though your experiences when you're at that kind of formative age, that is gonna inform a little bit like how you how you kind of interact as an adult, obviously. Right. So but I think a lot of that was my own you know, just me. Like I I wasn't asking for help, and that went on for years, right? Until way into adulthood, I still had that feeling like I shouldn't ask for help, like I should do things on my own, and if I had a problem, I was kind of on my own. And to a certain extent, I feel like that's what a lot of us grow up thinking. Um, especially especially men. I can you know, I'm I'm speaking from a a man's perspective that you're taught to kind of tough it out. Like if you have an issue, if you have a problem, you're taught to first try your best to solve it on your own, right, before you ask anybody for help. Because otherwise you'd be seen as weak or incompetent or needy or vulnerable um in some way, right? And that's the last thing you want to feel.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you get kinda told we get kind of told that man up, figure it out. Um you got yourself into this, get yourself out. I actually was pretty lucky that I I didn't know.
SPEAKER_02I didn't grow up.
SPEAKER_01I didn't I didn't grow up in a house where I was told always um like yo, just be a man, be tough, be so I I I consider myself lucky, but I do know people and have friends that grew up in a household where everything was like, man up, be a man, um, figure it out yourself. A man does this, a man doesn't do this, a man doesn't cry, a man doesn't have feelings. So I think that contributes to the stigma of it all.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and and and I think also I feel like society does give you the message that nobody really cares about your problem, right? Like even if you have an issue, nobody wants to hear you whining about your issue, so to speak, right? Like nobody, everybody has problems, and especially for a man, the expectation is that you can shoulder it and that you can kind of march on and and tough it out, right? You can kind of be stoic about it if there is a problem that's bothering you. And and the like I said, that it feels like the message out there does come come across that nobody's gonna care, even if you were to ask for help. Like nobody's gonna be concerned enough to help or be able to help, right? Because everybody's kind of dealing with their own burden, right? And especially kind of in in the place that we grew up, man. Like I kind of like, you know, I feel like I'm saying this a lot sometimes in our episodes, but it it feels like very it's still very relevant, right? Like the area that we grew up in the Bronx is one of those areas where people are dealing with all sorts of variety of of issues in terms of like um, you know, just socioeconomic plight, basically. And there's varying degrees of it. Some people are doing well, as but but the people that aren't doing well are really doing doing pretty bad, you know?
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So in an environment like that, it's important that you kind of learn to stand on your own two feet and not seem like you, you, you're weak or vulnerable in any way, right? Like so, and those messages are conveyed to you. They're conveyed to you quite a bit, you know, and in in verbal and and nonverbal cues. You know better than to than to be perceived as weak or or vulnerable in those places, because there's a there's literally a consequence that can happen if you are, right? So so I think that contributes to it too, man. Especially when when you're from so places that are kind of socioeconomically disadvantaged, um, you kind of are are are even more likely to not be out there asking for help or telling people that you're you have anxiety or you feel depressed or you're feeling sad today, right? Because not only does d don't people really have time to to care about that, you could wind up being kind of victimized as a result of something like that sometimes.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And I saw a figure that I looked up and it said 10 to 17% of adult men seek counseling or therapy. Only 10. 10 to 17% of us. And that's like all men. That's not any any uh specific race or anything. That's just all men in general. Um and and I find I find that to be kind of alarming. Like as I said earlier, I haven't physically myself sat on the on the couch of a therapist and and um conveyed any troubles or problems that I have. But I it's not I don't think that I wouldn't. I think that if I needed to, that I feel comfortable enough that I can. But I also think that it would have to be someone that I feel is relatable to me. Like I don't know if I would feel comfortable sitting on a going to therapy. I think it would have to be a man. And then what I also found out is that like there's a shortage of male therapists.
SPEAKER_02Right, right. So let me ask you this. Like, you know, I guess as much as you want to answer this, but um, do you feel like you've ever needed a therapist? Like, I I know you're saying, like, you're saying right now that you you've never gone to one, you never sat on the couch, so to speak. But do you do you feel like at any point in your life, when you look back on things, do you say to yourself, man, I could have used a therapist at that point, or I should have actually gone to seek help somehow? You know, even if it wasn't like official therapy on your on your health plan, right? But have you ever felt like you dealt with something on your own that you would have been a lot better off if you had a a conversation with somebody or you got or you sought out some sort of help?
SPEAKER_01Oh, absolutely. I um I had a I had a case of PTSD. So I I have a story, I'll tell you a story. This is I wasn't even thinking about this, but I lost one of my brothers about maybe going on 11 years now to an accident. He was a victim of a hit and run. And uh the way that I found out when I was down in North Carolina, because I'm the only one of my siblings that's up here, everyone's down in North Carolina. So the way I found out was getting awakened at 6 a.m. in the morning with one of our other brothers almost kicking my door open to tell her tell me like what had happened to our brother. And for about probably five to seven years after this, any loud noise, car backfiring, door slamming, I would jump. And I would always go back, I would always go back to that day and that moment of me in the bed, like with the door busting open. So it would like totally like just take me back, take me back to that place. I'd be sitting in the sitting in that spot with just reliving the moment. So any loud, sharp noise, bangs, anything, it it jacked me up for like seven years, bro. And it wasn't until like I didn't officially sit on the couch, but I did talk to someone, and they were saying, like, yo, you have P that's PTSD.
SPEAKER_03Right.
SPEAKER_01You know, it was like that's that's PTSD. Um so yeah, I I wasn't needed. I probably would have talked to that person. I was kind of coming out of it by then, but if that person would have told me that maybe four or five years earlier, um, I would have definitely laid on somebody's couch, bro.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's that's yeah, and and and that's a that's an interesting story, man. And uh, you know, I'm definitely I'm I'm sorry that that you went through that and that that that happened in that way. Um, but it's probably similar to a lot of people's situation where they should have maybe gotten help, but didn't, right? For for a lot of different reasons. Because one, you kind of go undiagnosed because you feel like you're handling it, right? Like, okay, like every time I hear this loud noise, I might kind of jump, but I kind of get over it and I'm good. Like, and and and I feel like that happens to a lot of us where we we feel like because we're coping with it and because it's not ruining our lives, that we're fine, right? That's the other part of it, not just the stigma of seeking help, but just the idea that we're not, we just don't know. We don't have the vocabulary sometimes and we don't we don't have the experience and we're not talking to each other enough about how we're feeling to know that, okay, this is not normal or this has been going on for too long, right? Like it's it's normal to be sad, right? Like if something happens, yeah, you're gonna be sad. But if you're sad for like a year, you know, that is not normal, right? Like if you're sad every day for for six months, then maybe, you know, that's the time where you should go seek some help. You should talk to a professional at that point, right? Like, if because it's one thing to have slight anxiety where you feel nervous or something like that, but to have it in in every situation, or to have it in situations where you know that it's just not, it's not exactly rational. Like there's nothing that's gonna happen to you when you go to this particular place. So when you interact with these particular particular people, but you still get this feeling that you can only describe as as anxious. That may be a time where you should go seek professional help, right? Like you should talk to somebody if you're having what seems normal, but but you're having these feelings for a especially for an ongoing period of time, right? Um so yeah, I mean, it's definitely something I could relate to, man. I that I that I've dealt with where like like you know, certain situations have come up where I know in retrospect that I could have used help. I've talked to therapists, but like I said, I've never been, I've never been significant. I mean, I I've never been consistent, I should say. I didn't mean to say significant. I'd I never I I've never been consistent about it. And I feel like there's been times in my life where I could have used that help on a consistent basis, right? Because there were things I was going through for long periods of time.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And and they say that because we exhibit symptoms different than the normal like sadness of depression, we get misdiagnosed a lot of times, men in general. Ours show more like physical pain and anxiety and anger. And I thought that was interesting too. We have a saying too, like in the personal training world, like stress shows up in your in your body, in your neck, you know, tightness and things like that. So that's not the conventional uh forms of of of um sadness and depression. And we just kind of soldier on with it, just expecting, like, yo, it'll be alright, I'll just get over it. You know what I'm saying? It'll be alright, I'll just get over it. We'll we'll go on saying that for days and months and even years sometimes before it's too late. You know, now it's we're like we're really far gone.
SPEAKER_02Right. You know?
SPEAKER_01And so I saw some other I have one, two, three, four, five. I have five uh key facts that I looked up about about men's mental health. And it's that and these statistics were taken in 2023. Uh it says 39,000, over 39,000 men died of suicide in the in the US. That's nearly 80% of all suicides. That's one. Two is men are four times more likely to die by suicide than women. Three is only forty percent of men with mental illness receive treatment versus fifty-two percent of women. Four, over sixty over six, I'm sorry, over six million men suffer from depression annually with many cases going undiagnosed, and that goes back to what I said about symptoms. And then five, one in ten men experience depression or anxiety, but less than half get treatment.
SPEAKER_02So that's do you think that and and in your observation, you know, and we can only speak from our experiences, right? Um, and maybe what we've read and um, you know, the professionals that we have talked to, but do you feel like the stigma is is lifted, right? Like the the whole idea that um, you know, we may have come up come up in a time where, you know, saying that you need help, especially professional help with an issue that you're having mentally, um there's a stigma associated, like we talked about, right? Like do you f but do you feel in any way that that has kind of um been lifted a little bit uh over time? Like people are more accepting that that you do need help sometimes and you do need especially professional help if you're having some sort of issuer.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think that I think that we are getting better because just the fact that we acknowledge it now, the fact that there is a men's health month, um, I think that has a big thing to do with it. Although, like we just finding out there was a men's mouth uh men's mental health month. So from here on out we know. Uh so I think that it's getting better, but these numbers are still like really low. But imagine how low that they used to be, like in the 60s or the 70s, the 80s, and the 90s.
SPEAKER_02Right, right, right. Okay, right. And that's and that's why that's why I I I bring it up in that way, because I feel like, you know, like I said, like we're Gen Xers, so we grew up in a certain time period, but then even, you know, the Gen X, the um the generation before us, I should say, um, baby boomers, there was probably even less tolerance for for people saying, hey, I have I have a mental issue, or like I'm having some some anxiety, or I'm I'm feeling depressed, or whatever the case may be, right? Like I I can't imagine, like as my father was coming up, that this was something that people really talked about, especially men. Um, you know, it felt like you just, you know, you had a drink. Like if you had an issue, you might go have a drink. Or if you had a family member that was really, really having some mental issues, like maybe the extreme of like hearing voices, or like you just kept them in the room. Like you just kept like people just took care of that person, but you never really sought out professional help, right? Like the family would just kind of gather around, you don't talk about it much, um, and and you just take care of the person, right? But you don't take care of the person in the way that they they probably need, because the truth is that you're you're avoiding the professional help, or you don't know that there's professional help, or you know, there's a stigma associated with it where you just don't want people in your business, right? Because it feels like there's a culture of of just not not let you don't want everybody to know that there's some issue going on in your house. So I feel like a lot of a lot of people suffer from that as a family and as individuals um that could use the help. Sometimes you get sheltered by by people that are just trying to protect, um, you know, just trying to protect the family from from from the stigma and protect them from the the kind of like the nosy nosy neighbors or the or the or the peering eyes, you know? Um so yeah, I'm I I feel like that still goes on, but I but I'm sure that it went on a lot more, you know, when we were coming up, and especially when our parents were were coming up.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's like remember Soul Food? It was the the uncle that they kept upstairs in the attic.
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_01Like the whole movie that's exactly.
SPEAKER_02Exactly. Something like that, right? Like where you well, you know that you have a family member that that's that that has some some issue, right? But the family just kind of rallies around that person, takes care of them, makes sure that they're fed and they're they're clean and they're taken care of, they have a place to stay, they get room and board, but nobody really takes that extra step to to make sure that they're getting professional help, because either they don't know any better, or it's just something that that like like just traditionally you keep that home, like you keep all those issues private. Like whether it's a mental health issue, whether it's a relationship issue, people just keep things private from the smallest thing to the most extreme. Um, I think that was just part of the culture is just to keep your business in the house, right?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, keep your business how they would just say, Oh, they just thick at it. That's all they be, they just thick at it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, you just they would just kind of make up something as if the person is is completely responsible for for their for that for their condition, right? Like without thinking to the to that the person could use some professional help, or may maybe they all they needed was medication, or maybe they needed a professional to evaluate them, um, something like that, right? So, yeah, I feel like that comes into play sometimes um where just out of a kind of a protective nature, um, you're kind of shielding a person too much, you're shielding them from what they actually need.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Let me ask you a question. Would you feel comfortable, more comfortable going to a a male therapist or a female therapist? Or does it not even matter to you?
SPEAKER_02Um I guess all things considered, I would probably feel more comfortable going to a male therapist. Like I've I've spoken to a female therapist before. Um but I think that, like you said, like it goes back to kind of being in a space where the person can relate to you. And I guess, you know, a male is gonna be able to relate to me a lot more, right? Yeah. And I feel like, you know, women bring a a a really valuable perspective. I don't want to, you know, I want to make sure that that's clear, but it feels like as a man, if you go to a man, there's gonna be things that they can relate to really directly or they have experience with, you know, that's really similar to yours, most likely. Um, that they can at least um they can really like kind of understand you a little a a little better, I think. So I feel like I'll I'll probably like if I had to go consistently, yeah, I probably want a a man. Um, and not for any other reason than that, right? Like that I'm a man and I feel like that that person's gonna understand me a little better. Um, and there's gonna be things that we both relate to that a woman may not be as understanding about.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I would prefer, I would prefer personally, like, to go to a man. And I asked a few people, because I I asked a few people beforehand, like, what would they prefer? And the men all said that they would prefer to go to a man. And almost the exact same answers were because they feel like you can really let your guard down around another man. And it takes another man to tell you, like, look, man, this is a safe place, dogs. I know, I know what you go through. You can let your guard down here. This is a judgment-free, judg, judgment-free zone where they feel like if they go to a woman, sometimes they may feel judged, even though it's their job not to judge you. It's just hard to not to feel like you're not being a man in a certain situation around a woman. And that's what I thought that was interesting, the few, the few people that I asked, and and they told me that. And I never really thought about it in that manner, but I can see how they would they would they would think that because I always tell, I always joke with my wife, and I always say like every woman said it's alright for a man to cry until you see a man crying in front of you and blubbering in front of you, you know.
SPEAKER_00That it's it's a little different than what you thought, it's different than in the movies. You know what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00You know, it's it's a little different in the movies.
SPEAKER_02You're right. And I I think that that a lot of men might be hesitant to to even, like you said, like let their guard down and to be completely honest if the therapist is a woman, right? I don't know that they would get as much as they need to get out of it because they're not they're not providing what they're supposed to be providing, which is the truth, which is kind of like transparency and um, you know, like you said, just letting your guard down, right? Like you have to let your guard down. You gotta be truthful if you are to get like a hundred percent of what what the therapy can can give you, right? Um so so yeah, that's it's an important point, man. It and it has nothing to do with their ability or their knowledge or or anything like that. Their education and their qualifications are are irrelevant, I think, in that case. But it's just about even like a um the way a man's gonna interact and and and feel comfortable. Um and I feel like the same would be I can't I don't know this for a fact, but I feel like the same would be true for a woman, right? Like if a woman is seeking a therapist, she probably would be more likely to seek out another woman for all the same reasons, right? Like because she could she can let her guard down, she could feel safe, and she could feel like she's talking to somebody that could possibly relate to the way she's feeling, right? Because it's another woman, right? So yeah, I I feel like that's that's a fair, you know, it's a fair point. Um and the and and really the point is if you're seeking help, is to to to be able to let your guard down and to be able to tell somebody in a safe space how you're actually feeling and get real feedback and and and get you know the most helpful advice that you that you can, right?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. It's like last week I talked about having to be out when we I think it was last week when I talked about being out with the family, and then we're in like sentry mode.
SPEAKER_02Right, right, right.
SPEAKER_01You know what I'm saying? Like if if I have a female therapist, yeah, she may not know what it what it's like because her husband might always be on sentry guard, but sentry mode is is keeping you safe. So you may you're enjoying your best life, not realizing the anxiety that your partner is going through. Now it takes it could take a minute to relate to that. You know what I'm saying? Like you're doing. Wait, man, I understand because I have to do the same thing, you know, like I have to provide a level of protection and an umbrella of safety at the same time, not always letting them know that I'm providing an umbrella of safety and protection. So if you're under that umbrella of safety and protection, you're not really paying attention to it. You know what I mean? So it would be a little that's one of those things.
SPEAKER_02It's one of those, it's one of those things that that that men would be able to relate to and and and and it's very nuanced, right? And I feel like like on the woman's side, sometimes like at least I hear about this in in in passing and in conversations about like kind of the invisible load that women carry, right? Like where women, like we talked about this before, like women have a tendency in the family to be like the nurturers and the planners and um the folks that that they kind of coordinate like your friendships, they coordinate things for your children, all the doctor's appointments and birthday parties and all types of things, right? And there's kind of an invisible workload and invisible kind of um mental load that's happening for them that maybe they feel maybe they would feel that a woman could relate to more so than a man. Because like and I'm not saying like men don't do any of those things, but I'm just saying like um, you know, a a large percentage probably would say that that women tend to do that in the household. They tend to be the ones to do kind of the the unseen work around kind of arranging the lives of the family. All the all the little intangible things that they do that you can't really see um uh take a take a toll after a while, right? Because it because they may feel underappreciated for it or they may feel like they're not getting the help that they need for it. They may not have the ability to articulate that they need help with that stuff. So when it comes to talking about it, um I feel like they would probably want to talk to a woman about stuff like that that that maybe will relate a little better. Right. Um so uh another uh question I have for you was about like um and I've been thinking about this, right? Like and and and I've heard other people having this conversation, but on social media, right, it feels like the stigma of mental health has kind of um it has kind of broken down, right? Like the like the stigma has kind of gone away to a certain extent, right? Like, or it's not as stigmatized. So I feel like as a result, though, the conversation is more open and you're getting like this influx of language and vocabulary around mental health, right? Like, and I feel like that's bringing out um folks that are just throwing words out there sometimes. And I wanted to know what you thought of this, because sometimes you hear words that um that we just didn't use coming up, right? Like, and it feels like because of the the the way that information travels, you get these these words that start to become part of your vocabulary, and for better or worse, they become a way that people I feel are starting to self-diagnose, right? Like, so one of them is like narcissism. I hear I hear that quite a bit, right? Like people accuse each other of being narcissists, or they or somebody might accuse their partner of being a narcissist without really having like the textbook definition for that, right? Like, or not, or or without even consulting with a professional, um, they might say that because your husband's selfish, does that mean he's a narcissist? Or because your wife is is is really trying to take care of herself and she's focused on how she feels and her needs, does that make her a narcissist? And and that and for me, the answer is I'm not, I wouldn't know. Like I'm not I'm not sure. But the word is kind of easy to throw out there as some sort of um self-diagnosis, or to kind of um pin that to somebody, right? Like, because it makes you feel good that you have the this vocabulary now. And people might throw around like something like anxiety. You feel a little nervous when you're going on a job interview, or you feel a little nervous before you go to a party. Does that count as real anxiety? And the answer again is I'm not a professional and I don't know. And yeah, but I feel like but I feel like a lot of times people are using these terms and they're also not a professional. They're also not seeking out a professional to help with anything like that. So we're using these terms, right? Uh or something like depression. Depression to me is like really something that we shouldn't be kind of throwing around lightly, but we should be focused on in a in a in to a certain extent. Because like you said, like you you brought up the the statistics on suicide. Child suicide is uh, you know, to be honest with you. Um so that's something that we shouldn't take lightly, but we also shouldn't be throwing that word around lightly because a lot of us don't have the textbook definition for this, right? But because feeling sad one time because something really bad happened seems normal. But feeling sad to me over a long period of time, maybe that's the point at which you should see. Professional help, right? But what do you think about the idea that sometimes we get in this vocabulary because information is traveling so fast that we're self-diagnosing or we're overusing these terms that a lot of us, including myself, we don't even know really how to apply them, right? Like we don't know whether they apply or not.
SPEAKER_01I talked about this earlier too. Yo, that dag on WebMD, son. Like you go on WebMD with a hangnail, and then you go on there and you self-diagnose yourself with pancreatic cancer. You know what I'm saying? So um I agree with you what you said. I 100% agree with you. One of one of the words, I'm gonna tell you one of the words that got really popular for like a couple of years, and everybody was saying, and that was gaslighting, yo.
SPEAKER_02Gaslighting, yes.
SPEAKER_01Oh my god.
SPEAKER_02Gaslighting. Yeah, that's another one that just gaslighting blew up on it went platinum on the internet. Standing up and now everybody's gaslighting. Yeah, gaslighting, everybody's gaslighting everybody, right?
SPEAKER_01Everybody's always gaslighting. They don't even know really what it is. It's gaslighting. You know, so you're right. You get these words that people like me hold on to. Yeah, that we hold on to. And I joked at the beginning with us saying, like, like, we're we're not therapists, we just play one on TV. But we're getting a lot of this, like, you know, we don't really, we're not really professionals, but we play one on social media.
SPEAKER_02Right. There's a lot of that going on, like, with the podcasters, and um, you know, not not to knock anybody, right? Because we're podcasting, I guess. We're podcasters, quote unquote. We are. But at the end, but at the end of the day, um, it it's true. Like, like with with the like, and and that to me, that's part of like the what what I used to call the democratization of media, right? Like where anybody can get on the mic, anybody can can have a platform, uh, you know, but whether it's big or small, you we all have this ability to get on the mic and and and start to talk about these things, but I feel like sometimes it's done in like a reckless way, especially if you're not a professional. Like we're we're on here saying, like, hey, we're not professionals, we're talking from our own experience, and we're talking from maybe like, you know, we'll give you references and sources that you can go to and get the real deal um professional opinion, right? But but I think there's been a double-edged sword that's been created by by kind of this democratization of of like information seeking and information sharing, um, in that maybe you needed the vocabulary, right? Like maybe this vocabulary is helpful to a certain extent. Maybe if I go to my therapist and I say, hey, I suspect that I'm suffering from you know anxiety, right? And then they could say, like, oh, really, tell me more, right? And I could be right about it. I could be like, they could be like, wow, you know, you've been suffering from this type of feeling for six months or more, or like two years or years you've been feeling like this. Yeah, it sounds like you are suffering you are dealing with some anxiety. Tell me more, right? Like maybe to a certain extent, if you are willing to go seek a professional, maybe that vocabulary is opening the door to a better understanding, right? Because a good therapist is gonna listen to the patient. And, you know, like any doctor, like the doctor wants to know why you're there, right? Like if you say, hey, my stomach's been hurting or my back's been hurting, I feel like there's a little bit of that in it, right? Like, so if I go to a therapist and they ask me, like, hey, you know, why are you here? What do you what would you like to talk about? And I say, Hey, I've been feeling pretty sad. I think I might be suffering from depression because I've been feeling sad for the past year, you know, and I can't seem to shake it, then maybe that opens the door to a conversation. Because I so I do feel like it's it's a double-edged sword, like I said, like where some people are using it to either self-diagnose or kind of pin that to some behavior that they just don't like in their friends or their family. Um but I do feel like it could be helpful if if if it's used in the right way, right? But I feel like at the end of the day, these things should be things that you can solve with a professional about, right? Like, I'm not gonna go to my friends and be like, hey, I've been having this problem in my back. Do you think it's sciatic or do you do you think I slipped a disc? Like, I'm not just gonna ask my friends online, hey, like what do you think of these symptoms? I'm gonna talk to, I'm gonna go to my doctor and talk to a professional if I'm re if I really feel like I'm having a problem that's that's consistent and that's significant enough.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's a great point because I feel like it's a good starting point. Like we we're getting lazy, we get lazy. Like social media is kind of making us lazy with a self-diagnosis instead of using it as uh for good instead of for evil, like just to see something and then to go and then seek out a therapist and and ask them, like, I kind of feel this. Do you think this may be this? And then this the therapist can tell you, like, yes, that's exactly what you're feeling, or no, you bugging, you're bugging all the way out. This is stop stop watching um influences and stuff like that. You know what I mean? Yeah, so I think it's a good it's a good launch pad. Yeah, yeah, you know, so that's the thing. That's exactly what I mean.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's what I mean. It yeah, exactly. Yeah, that's a that's a book.
SPEAKER_01That's a fantastic point. Oh, okay, son. You know how we do.
SPEAKER_02Oh, so I have a book, right? I have a book. Um, it's called The Unapologetic Guide to Black Mental Health. And it's written by Dr. Rita Walker, PhD psychologist. Right? I don't know if you guys can see because I don't want the light to to blur this.
SPEAKER_01Now we can see it, it's good.
SPEAKER_02Um The Unapologetic Guide to Black Mental Health, right? And it's written by Dr. Rita Walker, right? And I've been reading this book, and I've also um I've watched a couple of interviews with with Dr. Walker. And and if you notice, like the the in the title of the book is the it's the unapologetic guide to black mental health, right? You know, in her interviews, she talks a lot, and even in the book too, she talks a lot about why the book is is even named the way it is, right? Because, and I think it's you know, what I'm gathering is that it's in large part for because of some of the reasons that we talked about, right? Like kind of coming up the way black people do, and especially in the United States, like we have a shared experience that is kind of unique to us, right? And when you we talk about that unique experience, you also talk about issues that come up as a result that are also unique. She talks about stuff, you know, in the workplace, like black people are dealing with maybe microaggressions, right? She talks about even the the need to kind of fit in um is something that we have to work at on a regular basis more so than other people might have to, right? Like this this idea of of having to kind of assimilate or to kind of um code switch, you know, depending on on where you are. Um that's a mental load, right? Like the idea that you don't fit in as your as yourself, and that you kind of have to make adjustments to to kind of your foundational self is a mental load that she said that a lot of us kind of take for granted. And we're just doing it kind of on autopilot, not even realizing that it's it takes its toll after a while. Like you if you're doing that like five, six days a week um for the for the better part of your day, um, it is something that could take its toll on you, especially if even in doing that, you're not really getting the results that that that that should actually yield, right? She talks about her own journey and becoming like a tenured professor and being denied that for a long time and having to kind of come to terms with that, right? But the other reason like I I bring up this book and I bring up Rita Walker, not only because it's an excellent book, I and she's she even says that like anyone can benefit from the advice that she's giving in the book, but she's really focused on black mental health because she's black and she feels like it's it's needed. And she says she's saying that for a long time, that has not been a focus, um, and there's not been a lot of resources that black people can can like kind of read in language that that is relatable, um, very easily understandable. She's not talking a lot of a lot of um, you know, professional terminology. She's using plain language to talk about real situations that black people might be able to relate to and find themselves in, actually, right? Um, but one of the the big things, the big takeaways that I got from the book so far is that um something like we talked about about the stigma of even talking about mental health and how black people especially can kind of overcome that, right? She said that her one of her suggestions I should say is that we stop saying mental health, right? And that might seem counterintuitive at first, but she's saying that we should replace mental health with psychological fortitude, right? Oh, I like that, right? And and in the book, yeah, yeah, right. So she she compares it to SPF, right? Like where you have that that sun protection factor, um, where you can kind of give a number to to SPF, and you know by that number, like how long you can go before you have to reapply, right? So she says that PF, that that psychological fortitude is something that you should think of in a similar way in terms of being able to add like a number to it, right? Like you can say, like from a from a number one to ten, how are you feeling? Like what's your PF, right? And she said that not only does it give you kind of a better way of describing how you're feeling, because the other tendency that we have is to say that we're fine, right? If you see me in the hallway at work, or you see me at school, or you see me even in the street, you might say, hey man, how you doing? And I might say, Yeah, I'm good, I'm fine, right? And that doesn't really accurately describe how you're actually doing, right? And you may not have the, you may not be thinking about it at the time, you may not have the vocabulary to tell somebody, hey, I'm not, I'm less than fine, right? Like I'm not doing that well. And even if it's a good, trusted friend, we tend to have that that reflex of saying I'm fine, right? So she's saying that not only does the psychological um fortitude give you a different way of framing mental health, like rather than saying mental health, because as soon as you say mental health, people get kind of nervous, and you know, like we said, the stigma comes about, people start associating it with that. Oh, you're gonna think I'm crazy and all this other stuff. But if you and I know that we're gonna start framing this as our psychological fortitude, like what number we're at we're at, you would even know as a friend, if I say, hey, I'm at a four right now, you know that okay, that means I'm not doing so well, right? But if I tell you, hey, I'm up to, and if if you see me in a week and you ask me, like, hey, what's your PF, right? And I say, Oh, I'm I'm about a six, seven right now. You know, I'm I'm in and last time I spoke to you, I was at a four. At least you know, you don't know, you might I might not tell you every single detail, but at least you know, okay, man's doing better now than he was last time I saw him. Or, or like on the flip side, if I say, like, hey, I I was uh I was an eight last week, but now I'm at about a four, I'm going through something, you know, with my kids or my wife or whatever the case may be. You know by that number, hey, like this is a look, you know, maybe maybe we should have a talk, right? Like maybe I should call him up, or maybe we should go out, or maybe he needs to talk. So that like I said, like it not only gives you a different framing and a different type of language around mental health where it's not as stigmatized, but it also gives you like some specifics around um how you're actually doing rather than saying I'm fine or I'm good or I'm I'm okay, I'm all right. Like you know, these vague terms we use, and we tend to accept them from ourselves and we accept them from our friends and family because we're just so used to it and it's a reflex. But I thought I found that very interesting that that she used that term and it felt like a useful tool that anybody could take advantage of. Um I can gauge like how you're actually doing, right? Without you telling me a lot of detail, you don't have to go into you know all your private life story. But you could tell me, like, hey, I'm at a five right now, and I'll be like, all right, well, do you need to talk? Do you need more? You know, if you say I'm at an eight, all right, that's pretty, you know, that's pretty good. You know? So you you know what you must be really doing good, right? And um it I found that to be similar to like if you go to the doctor and you and something happens and you're having pain, they'll ask you, like, hey, on a scale of one to ten, what how much pain do you do you think you're in, right? Yeah, I think it's like the borg scale. Yeah, I thought that was interesting. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, the borg scale or the rate of perceived exertion, as we say in in the training world, like give me a number of one to ten, how you feeling.
SPEAKER_02Right, right. And it can be related to that, yeah, exactly. So so I I think that's another reason why I found this to be like a useful tool because it it it it could it parallels so many other kind of fields and in the and the way we use that type of language that it's easy for people to pick it up easily, you know, fast and be and say, okay, I'm gonna use this as my gauge rather than just asking, hey, how you doing?
SPEAKER_01And you know what else too? There's definitely opportunity out there because mental health is turning into the new gaslight, but there's opportunity out there also for males to study to become therapists and psychologists. There's a there's a demand, there is a demand out there for men to help men. And this is the month of the man. You know what I'm saying? So that's mainly where I say to help out because I also have some some stats. I have um so 20 to 25 percent of therapists are males, although 50% are psychiatrists, thirty to thirty-five percent uh psychologists are males, and fifteen to twenty-five percent of master's level therapists are males. So there's a need. Right. There's a there's definitely a big need out there for men to help men. And I have a movie. Okay. And I have a movie. What's the movie? This is one of my favorite male bonding movies, like Therapist Male, Goodwill Huntington, son. R.I.P. Robin Williams, that's like one of the best performances that he's given.
SPEAKER_02He's given a lot of performances, but the scenes between him, yeah.
SPEAKER_01The scenes between him and Matt Damon when he's talking about um just breaking them down and he's telling them like it's not your fault. And he's he's just really helping to reshape this young man's life.
SPEAKER_02Right. Yeah, that's a that's a classic. That's what yeah, that's that's up there with one of my favorites, I guess. I I haven't thought about that movie in a long time, but when I when I do think about it, it's a really well done movie. Yeah, and Robin Williams.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, man. That dynamic between those two was was just fantastic. Because also, and this is what goes what goes back to me saying about like relatable. So Robin Williams, he was like from the town. He was he was he was a Boston dude, you know? So just when Matt Thaman thought he was soft, he had to tell him, like, yo, I'll end you, son. I'll bring those monuments. You know, he's he fell in line real quick after that, because he thought, oh, this egghead dude's in here, what does he know about anything? And then he told him, like, all of you know, all of the problems in his life with his wife and stuff, and he was like, Look, man, don't you ever mention my wife again or so I will end you. So, you know, that that that's why male therapists matter, son.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, because they can straighten you out real quick in a way that you can relate to. Yeah. No, but that that's a good that that's a good one, man. That's a good and that's a good example for anybody that hasn't seen Goodwill Hunting. Highly recommend. Like that is a classic film, and it does talk about it does it well, it does speak to the like kind of the relationship between the you know, this therapist and this young man um played by Matt Damon. I won't I'm not gonna give away anything about the movie, but um definitely highly recommend. Like it's it's a movie that that'll definitely um kind of move you. Um and it does kind of give you a good example of why it's really helpful to be able to talk to somebody about your your issues and and especially somebody that you can relate to. Um is it's extremely important.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yo, I have a question for you.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, go ahead, shoot.
SPEAKER_01What's the last movie that you watched that made you cry?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, yeah. Transformers the movie when when when Optimus Prime got killed when we were like 10, 11 years old. Nah, that was a long time ago.
SPEAKER_01It's the 40 year anniversary. It's coming back out in movie theaters.
SPEAKER_02It is. It is, it is it is the 40th anniversary. Um but no, uh, that's I I'm trying to think, man, because I've you know the funny thing, man, with me, like I don't cry much, but but when it comes to movies, I cry pretty easily. Because sometimes I'm sitting at home by myself watching movies, and I definitely cry, like if nobody's around, I definitely let it let it go. But I'm I'm trying to think, when's the last time I actually cried, man? There's been so many, man. Um you know what movie made me cry a little bit, like, and this is gonna be surprising. Um, it's a movie um F1. Oh, with Brad Pitt Damson Idris and Brad Pitt. Yeah, yeah. When they when they when he wins, well, I don't want to give away the end, but yeah, you know the they go they go through a lot as a team. Um there's a lot of trials and tribulations between him and um Damson Idris, um, his character, and this kind of a big finale in that movie that's really touching, man. Like I and like and and the the thing with me, like I'm not a big like sports fanatic, but what but for some reason sports movies like really move me. Like when when the character is going through something and there's a story behind it and they finally kind of reach their goal, or even if they don't reach their goal, like the just the effort that I see being put in or the emotional toll it takes, like that always moves me for some reason. So I cried a little bit like at the end of that. Um at the end at the end of that movie. That's the last time I can remember watching a movie and kind of tearing up. Like it wasn't like a ball and cry, like an ugly cry, but it was like a little tear kind of yeah, a little little single tier.
SPEAKER_01Yo, sports movies always make me cry. I'm not gonna fun. I'm I'm I'm shameless about it.
SPEAKER_02Something I'm moving about it.
SPEAKER_01I'm shameless about it, yo. I'm gonna cry with sports, Rudy Hoos. But I'll tell you, I can't remember you know, the movies, um Armageddon. Every time I watch Armageddon, that makes me cry. The scene with Bruce Willis and Ben Affleck, that makes me cry. But I'm gonna tell you a TV show. I had to stop watching this TV show, bro. Because I was crying like every week.
SPEAKER_02Yo, that yours. You didn't even have to tell me. I was like, this is. I watched Yo, I had to stop watching that show. Yeah, I was crying every week. Yeah, like I watched that. You know what's crazy? I I think I was on um I was on leave from work. Like I was on paternity leave or finishing up paternity leave when I when I I binge watched it, right? Because I I just heard good things about it. I tried to watch it back to back on demand. Like I probably watched like like two or three seasons of it back to back, right? Like just over, I just just like not stop. And I was crying, man, like for I don't know, for days. Like, because I was I was just watching them back to back. And it seemed like everything about that show was moving and like either sad or happy. Like, you know, it it's the type of show that you'll be crying for different reasons. Like you might cry out of sadness for somebody, one of the characters, you might cry because something really, really, really, yeah, really, you'll cry. Happy tears for them. I'm like, who is writing this, man? I swear, I was thinking to myself, what kind of writing is this that's making me feel for these characters in this way, right? Um, yeah, I you didn't even have to tell me. As soon as you said there was a TV show, I was like, Yeah, it had to be this is us.
SPEAKER_01Yo, I heard they went off the air because men started to boycott it.
SPEAKER_02No way, no way. I'm just joking.
SPEAKER_00Why would you mention joking? I'm just joking. I'm just joking.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, men were crying too much. Men started crying in front of their family too much.
SPEAKER_01Yo, that's a good show. If you want a good cry, though, watch that this is us. That joint had me sobbing, bro. I had to stop. I stopped watching, I didn't even see it through to the end, man.
SPEAKER_02I think I didn't watch the last season. I'm not gonna lie to you, because it was kind of it was exhausting, to be honest with you. Like, like it was it was it was like too much. Um, I never felt that way about a show before, but that last season, I skipped it because I'm like, uh, I'll get back to it maybe one day. But but like I said, I tried to binge watch a lot of it until I caught up with the you know the most the more recent episodes that were coming out. But by the time it got to the last season, I just couldn't take it anymore. I'm like, I can't do this. Like, I don't need to be crying over a TV show every week. It makes no sense. It makes no sense.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so it's okay to cry, man, especially on sports movies. That's my rule of thumb, man. I don't care. I'll cry in front of anybody over a good sports movie, especially a good underdog sports movie, son. Forget about it. Yeah, man. Rocky. You hear me? You had me at hello, yo.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think as a kid, I'm I every time I seen a Rocky movie, I think I cried. Like every time, like you know, son, when he would yell out Adrian. When um when a pot when Apollo Creed gets killed, I'm like, oh man.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, son.
SPEAKER_02It's emotional, man.
SPEAKER_01Tear jerkers, B. When he made the speech in front of Russia in Rocky IV, and he was like, ah, you know what?
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I remember that when he said that, like, you know, I've seen a lot of change in here. If I could change, it's just yeah, we all could change. Everybody's screaming. I'm like, yeah, that's yeah. So Vesor Salone knows how to make you cry.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, he'll he can write he could write some tear jokers, yo.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, he'll make you cry. But yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, bet. So you got anything else before we we we sign off?
SPEAKER_02Nah, man, I think I think we covered it, man. I think I think that's it. Um but I just wanted to like one more time just recommend that people read um This unapologetic guide to black mental health by Rita Walker, PhD. Um, it's helpful to everybody, even though in the title it's saying black, and she does focus quite a bit on black mental health because she feels like that's kind of an underserved um group and that there's not enough information for people that have like kind of the unique challenges that black people might find um in their lives. But there's information and there's tips and tools in there that could be helpful to anyone, to be honest with you. So I recommend the book to anybody. Um but yeah, that's all I have.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And, you know, since we are talking about mental health and suicide and such in this episode, it would be uh remiss for us to not mention. There are places that you can go and people you can talk to. Uh there's 988 suicide, and there's the crisis lifeline. Uh 911 therapists. If you are, you're not alone, talk to somebody. Don't be ashamed because it could save your life.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely. And and on that note, just one more thing, man. Like, if there's kind of another side to this, right? Like, there's the person that that may feel like they're they're gonna be stigmatized or feel like they don't want to like kind of um let their business out there or they feel uncomfortable. I think the other side of it is that when you're asked for help, you need to be open to it as well, right? Like, that's something that we didn't really talk about much. But there's a flip side where you're the person that somebody might be reaching out to, right? Like it's not all you're not always the person that needs the help, but you might be the person that someone calls on, and it might be really subtle sometimes, right? Like you gotta look for, you know, not only the outward kind of outcry for help, but sometimes you gotta look for subtle things in your friends and family, like and and ask them if they need help. Ask them if they've been thinking about, you know, what they, you know, whether or not their life is as valuable anymore, or whether or not anybody cares. Sometimes you gotta be the one that initiates it if you're seeing that. And then you especially have to like drop the stigmas if someone comes to you in earnest for help. Like if somebody's telling you, hey, I'm feeling depressed, hey, I've been feeling sad lately, you gotta be willing to listen, right? Like you may not be a professional and you may want to guide them towards some professional help, but the first step is like actually the hard part is not stigmatizing and not judging and um just being an ear and being the person that they can talk to. Be a safe space for somebody as well, right? Because that's really important too. Not just the person that needs the help, but really there's gonna be times in your life, and maybe if you're a Gen X and you're old enough, and you and you know, maybe not even that old, but like, you know, everybody could have dealt with this. But if you're a person that somebody feels safe enough to talk to, you gotta really take that seriously too. You may not be a professional, but you can at least be that ear, and you can hear them out, and you can help somebody get help, right? So just I just want people to keep that in mind. So you might be the person that someone else needs. Word bars bars, as the kids say.
SPEAKER_01So this concludes our latest episode of the Gen Expertise Podcast, episode 43. Shout out to our now day 43s, our day ones, and everyone in between. And as usual, and as always, shout out to our day one, day one, who just celebrated our anniversary of 26 years. Shout out to you and your missus.
SPEAKER_02Um, absolutely, absolutely shout out to him.
SPEAKER_01Yes, and hopefully, by the time you hear this podcast, we'll be whooping up on them spurs. And by the time you get to episode 44, Maine is gonna have so much New York Knicks stuff plastered behind him. He's gonna have probably a jacket, a t-shirt, he's gonna have three mugs, a pennant, you know what I'm saying? And I'll be crying.
SPEAKER_02I'm gonna have like a little mock bandwagon on the on my desk.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. Absolutely. I will have some, I will have some, I will probably have a sweatshirt or a scully or something. And and before, real quick, but speaking of PTSD, I made a vow. A lot of my friends and people are like, Rez, how come you don't wear a lot of Knicks gear? When we lost in 1994, I was so distraught that I made a vow that I will not wear a bunch of Knicks stuff or Nick's paraphernalia until we actually won a championship. So you know I'm gonna go ham and cheese if we win this championship, bro.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01It's gonna be disgusting, son. But before we leave, you know what, man.
SPEAKER_02Since we are prolific.
SPEAKER_01That's right, my brother. We are prolific. We'll be back next week, same gen next time, same gen next place for a third episode of our month of the man series. Because we are manly men, the manliest of all men. And I feel like our wives are gonna laugh at us when they hear that.
SPEAKER_02I feel like everybody's gonna laugh at us when they hear that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, pretty much so, pretty much so. But you know how we do power to the podcast. Power to the podcast. Peace.