From Managing Symptoms to Thriving: The Role of Joy in True Wellbeing

Welcome back to Medicine with Meaning. In today’s episode, host Dr. Julie Taw to explores powerful role of joy in our health and well-being. Together, they challenge the traditional view of health as simply the absence of disease and discuss why joy is more than just a fleeting emotion, it’s a vital indicator of how well we’re really living.

Dr. Julie Taw reveals how chronic stress can keep us disconnected from joy and explains why joy isn’t something we earn after completing our to-do lists, but rather a form of nourishment that helps us show up for what matters most. The conversation dives deep into the ways small, intentional moments, like listening to music, watching a sunset, or savoring a morning coffee can reconnect us to joy, even during difficult seasons.

Tune in as we redefine what it means to be healthy, discover practical ways to bring more joy into daily life, and embrace a more inclusive, compassionate view of well-being that recognizes the importance of feeling truly alive.

00:00 Exploring the Importance of Joy

05:49 Finding joy in daily moments

09:40 Calm mind and finding joy

11:46 Understanding healing vs. curing

15:25 Integrating mind and body health

20:09 Finding small moments of joy

21:57 Finding joy in daily life

26:27 Finding joy in simple moments

30:13 Finding joy and being present

32:46 Defining true health and healing

Show Website - https://medicinewithmeaning.com/

Dr. Julie Taw's Clinic Website - https://julietawmd.com/

Free Guide - https://go.julietawmd.com/reset

Dr. Julie Taw's Instagram - @julie.taw.md

Media/Podcast Partner: TopHealth - www.tophealth.care

“Disclaimer: Informational only. Not medical advice. Consult your doctor for guidance.”

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Many of us believe that productivity comes first. Take care of everyone else, answer the emails, hold the laundry, make dinner. Then maybe you've earned permission to enjoy yourself. The problem is the list never ends. Joy becomes something we postpone. Joy isn't the reward for getting everything done. Joy is part of what gives us the capacity to keep showing up. Over the past several months, we've explored so many different aspects of health, from stress and sleep to hormones, nutrition, relationships, and of course the nervous system. We've talked about recognizing when our bodies are asking for support, and how small intentional changes can create meaningful improvements in our well-being. Today, I'd like to shift the conversation slightly. When we think about health, we often focus on what isn't working, our symptoms, our diagnoses, and what we need to fix. But what if we paid attention to what makes us feel alive? What if joy wasn't just a pleasant emotion, but an important indicator of our overall well-being? Today we're going to explore why joy matters, how chronic stress can disconnect us from it, and why creating moments of joy is not selfish. It's an important part of supporting our health.

SPEAKER_00 2:12

Dr. Julie is nice to see you again. When you think about health, where does joy fit into the conversation?

SPEAKER_01 2:19

I think we've left joy out of the health conversation for far too long. When most people think about health, they focus on their symptoms, diagnoses, lab values, weight, or blood pressure. And of course, those things matter. As physicians, we should pay attention to them. But I also think we need to ask another question. Does your life feel good to live? To me, health isn't simply the absence of disease. It's having the energy to enjoy your family, the presence to appreciate a beautiful moment, the capacity to laugh, connect, create, love, and experience the things that give life meaning. Sometimes I'll ask a patient, what brings you joy? And they're completely caught off guard. Not because they don't want joy, but because they haven't thought about it in years. That tells me something important. So joy isn't just a pleasant emotion. Our capacity to experience joy can be a meaningful indicator of our overall well-being.

SPEAKER_00 3:40

Yes, you made a great point there. When we think about health, many of us leave joy outside of the conversation. We don't even think about it as a contributor to our our health and well-being. We might think it's like a result of uh of certain circumstances, but I don't think we often think of it as something that actually contributes to our health. And, you know, so like I said, many people think joy is something that you earn after work is done or after you accomplish something. Why do you think we've developed that mindset?

SPEAKER_01 4:17

Well, I think many of us, especially women, have been conditioned to believe that productivity comes first. You know, take care of everyone else, finish the work, answer the emails, fold the laundry, exercise, make dinner. Then maybe, if there's time left over, you've earned permission to enjoy yourself. The problem is the list never ends. Joy becomes something we postpone until life calms down. But the reality is for most of us, life never fully settles. One of the lessons I've had to learn myself is that joy isn't the reward for getting everything done. Joy is part of what gives us the capacity to keep showing up for the things that matter. So it's not a prize, it's actually nourishment.

SPEAKER_00 5:14

And has there been any season of your own life where reconnecting with joy changed the way you experience your health or well-being?

SPEAKER_01 5:23

Absolutely. And honestly, this is something I'm still learning. Like many women listening, there are seasons where life feels incredibly full. So currently I'm caring for my patients. I'm building something I'm passionate about, showing up from my family, and then trying to juggle all the responsibilities that come with life. And during this season, joy can sometimes feel surprisingly hard to access. And it's not because there isn't anything good in my life. It's because my mind becomes so focused on what's next, or what problem do I need to solve, that I don't fully receive what's already here. So I've realized I can't wait until life becomes less busy before I allow myself to experience joy. If I do that, I'll probably be waiting for a long time. So instead of asking myself, how do I become joyful? I've started asking a gentler question. And that is, what would feel nourishing right now? So for me, often that's taking a walk in the park, being closer to nature. Sometimes it's listening to music while I'm making dinner. Right now it's listening to Shakira during World Cup, and uh her music makes me want to dance and just brings a smile to my face. What else? Uh sometimes it's spending time outside, spending time with my family, laughing with my family, you know, just noticing, you know, the sunlight through the window. You know, none of this erases my responsibilities, but they remind my nervous system that life isn't only about solving problems. And I've also learned to give myself grace. Some days joy feels close, other days it doesn't. And that's okay. I don't think the goal is to feel joyful every day. The goal is to remain open to moments of joy, even during difficult seasons.

SPEAKER_00 8:01

That's beautiful and and why. Yeah, at the end of the day, joy is an emotion that is important to allow ourselves to experience, but it doesn't have to be a pressure to feel it in order to feel good or to be good or to to be healthy, no? And I think this kind of connects me to your vision or the way that you express your work and your medicine, if I'm saying it correctly, but not not adding one more thing to do, because that takes away the joy, no, and it would be again, oh, trying to feel joy would almost not bring joy, right?

SPEAKER_01 8:36

Well, I I I mean, I would say that um joy is almost something we receive versus something we can produce or manufacture. I I don't know, it's sort of subtle, but it's like you have to be open to receiving it. And part of that is, you know, uh allowing our nervous system to be in a more relaxed state, we're more likely to experience joy. And when we're open in this way, you know, we're able to, you know, see the rainbow, or um, you know, first see the rainbow and then like kind of be in awe of it. Um you can see it and not, you know, be delighted by it, right? And and that delight is the moment of joy. And so, you know, you were talking about earlier, I I heard you say that sometimes it's the the conditions of our life that create joy. And we're not always going to have the conditions that bring joy. And, you know, um, I think joy can be perhaps cultivated, or um, you know, you can find it even during difficult periods.

SPEAKER_00 10:01

And so when you say that you ask yourself this question about how you can how can I nourish myself today, that creates certain conditions outside circumstances because sometimes you can't control that, but you create the inner circumstance to be able to recognize the joy that is hiding within certain circumstances that feel heavy or difficult.

SPEAKER_01 10:26

Absolutely. So, you know, when we ask ourselves, what what do I need right now? Or, you know, how do I nourish myself right now? It allows you to focus on your needs and take care of yourself, you know, what whatever that looks like that day. And that will lead to often changing your physiology, that stress physiology that we talk a lot about on the show. And when we're in a calm state of mind, a calm nervous system, we're more likely to find joy. When we're stressed, when we're in that fight or flight sympathetic nervous system, um it's like our brain is looking for problems. Or let me say that our nervous system is designed to detect danger, right? That's what our nervous system does in its entirety. And when we're constantly stressed, it's like, you know, we're scanning for danger. And so it is harder to find joy or to receive joy.

SPEAKER_00 11:41

Yeah, yeah. I it it's creating the environment within, and that's again nurturing our nervous system, right? Putting our guards down. And you gave good recommendations, you know, listen to Shakira.

SPEAKER_01 11:58

No, but music everyone's jam, but find your own, you know, whatever music that um brings you joy.

SPEAKER_00 12:09

Talk to Julian like Shakira. Yeah, I know, I know, I know. And I mean, music is a great medium to to find joy, I think. At least I resonate with it with you in that sense. In your work with your patients, do you notice a difference between people who simply are managing symptoms and those who are truly thriving?

SPEAKER_01 12:31

I do. Although perhaps not in the way people expect. Thriving doesn't necessarily mean you have no symptoms. And managing symptoms doesn't mean you failed. I've cared for people whose laboratory tests look excellent, you know, they're in good health, yet they feel disconnected from themselves, they're chronically stressed, and they're unable to enjoy their lives. I've also cared for people living with serious chronic illness who still laugh deeply, nurture meaningful relationships, find purpose in their days, and experience genuine moments of joy. That has taught me something important. Healing and curing are not always the same thing. Of course, as a physician, I want to help people identify root causes, relieve suffering, and improve symptoms whenever possible. But healing is about more than what happens to the disease. It's about what happens to the person. Sometimes healing means reducing symptoms. Sometimes it means recovering parts of yourself that illness cause you to lose. Sometimes it means finding greater acceptance, deeper connection, renewed purpose, or even moments of joy while living with chronic condition. To me, that's why I call it the well-being ecosystem. We're not only caring for a diagnosis, we're tending to the whole human being.

SPEAKER_00 14:30

Yeah, and I love how you defined the di the subtle differences between healing and curing. And I and I think what came to mind is speaking of people that have been dealing with chronic disease, I find I've I have personally met people who have healed a lot through their chronic disease. So that seems almost counterintuitive, but what you mentioned as a person, right? I guess there's more than disease, right? There's that aspect of yourself that life gives you or that you encounter as you experience your life. I don't know, would you say they're emotional?

SPEAKER_01 15:12

Well, when we think about healing in the whole person sense, it's physical, right? We try to do as much to bring physical healing, but it's a lot it's beyond that. And so, yes, it's healing our emotions. It's healing uh uh on the level of the mind and the spirit, if you will, right? That is um, you know, finding that meaning and alignment with the things that matter. And, you know, to each person that's gonna be a little bit different. Um but I think for most of us as humans, it's really about connection to the people that are important to us. And so I think this is an important point that you can have healing even while dealing with a serious chronic illness. And there are often no cures for people with chronic diseases, and people do need to learn to live with their chronic conditions. Yes, you want to, you know, do what you can to, you know, optimize your physical health. But I think in this show we talk a lot about how there's no separation really. And, you know, it's just in Western medicine that we've separated, you know, the mind and the body. And in this show, we've talked a lot about how everything is interconnected. And so healing needs to be on all of these different levels. And then, you know, looking at the well-being ecosystem framework kind of allows us to look at, you know, what are the different parts that you can work on to bring about healing and well-being. And uh, you know, I I think when we look at the the wellness industry, you know, there's so much talk about health and optimization, and it feels like it excludes just a whole batch of people who are living with chronic illness. You know, some can say they're healthier than people that have perfect labs and they have no disease, but yet, you know, they don't some of them don't feel good in their lives. They're not experiencing joy. So I want to just include those people who are living with chronic disease that you fit into the well-being ecosystem. You know, there may be challenges with your biology. And of course, we're gonna, you know, try to work with your biology, you know, to bring more health there. But there are all these other parts of the ecosystem that are also important and can bring more ease and bring more joy and more meaning and help people to f live a life that feels truly alive and fulfilled.

SPEAKER_00 18:27

Thank you for for putting that together. I what comes to mind is that health, it's not black or white. You're not either healthy or unhealthy. You mentioned you can experience joy within those moments of hardship. You also experience health even when your biology is being challenged, right? Like you mentioned in the well-being ecosystem framework. We look at health from all the different areas that that contribute to your well-being as a person, as a human, not only in your biology. So there's many people that might feel challenged in their bodies for some reason, but they live really good lives. And also trying to bring that quality of life to those who may have amazing labs, but still feel challenged in their person. So is that that balance? And thank you for including everyone here because I I I do see that sometimes the wellness industry stays very limited to as to what's important.

SPEAKER_01 19:32

Well, it's part of an optimization culture, and and I want to honor that, and that's great. Um, but that is a subset, a smaller subset of our population, and it doesn't always apply to everybody. Um yeah, so I I I I choose to be more inclusive here.

SPEAKER_00 19:52

And Dr. Julie, sometimes people feel guilty for prioritizing activities that bring them joy. And I find that strange, but it happens to the best of us. How do you help your patients reframe that?

SPEAKER_01 20:06

I think we've been taught that making space for joy is selfish. And of course I see it differently. I see it as a part of caring for our health. If you're constantly depleted, everyone around you receives the exhausted version of you, your family, your friends, your coworkers. So making space for moments that help you feel more alive isn't abandoning responsibility. It's helping you become the version of yourself that can actually meet those responsibilities, perhaps with greater presence, patience, compassion, and even energy. And notice I'm not talking about extravagant vacations or hours and hours of free time. I'm talking about creating small moments that nourish you. So one of my favorite questions is what would make this moment just 5% lighter? Or again, you know, what would feel nourishing right now? So sometimes it's as simple as taking a deep breath before walking into your next meeting, or stepping outside and getting, you know, five minutes of sun sunlight, calling a friend, um, again, listening to a favorite song, or pausing long enough to notice something beautiful. And you know, it doesn't have to mean you go to a museum, which sometimes you know feels daunting for people. Of course, that's where we all like to go to see beautiful things, but you know, I think so often we just don't pause long enough to notice something beautiful. So Those small moments may seem insignificant, but they aren't. They remind your nervous system time you know time and time again that life is more than responsibilities and to-do lists. And over time, those little moments don't just help you feel better, they help you connect with yourself and feel more like yourself.

SPEAKER_00 22:30

And Dr. Julie, throughout this podcast, we've talked about the well-being ecosystem, which is my favorite part of it all. Um, how does joy fit within that ecosystem?

SPEAKER_01 22:42

I actually don't think joy sits in just one pillar. I think it's woven throughout the entire ecosystem. As our nervous system becomes more regulated, as we're sleeping better, moving our bodies, nourishing ourselves, creating healthier boundaries, strengthening relationships, living more in alignment with what matters most. But joy often begins to emerge naturally. That's why I don't think joy is something we manufacture, it's something we create the conditions for and then take notice. To me, joy is one of the beautiful signs that the ecosystem is becoming healthier. It is a vital sign, not because it should always be present, but because our capacity to experience joy tells us something about how we're doing.

SPEAKER_00 23:58

It's an indicator of health, more than it being something to work on. It's just like a result of a balance. It's like a result of a harmony between things. And and that's and that's really what you've created inside the well-being ecosystem program, no, Dr. Julie. A program where people aren't just trying to manage symptoms, but are actually learning how to create the conditions for greater well-being.

SPEAKER_01 24:26

Yeah, and um, I am really excited about the program. Um it will make this work seem a little bit more tangible, um, a little bit more practical. Um, I know you know it's a lot of fun to think about it all in theory, but I think um people need to learn to practice it, and that's sort of the hopes of the well-being ecosystem that I am planning to launch the fall of this year.

SPEAKER_00 24:54

That's really exciting. I'm already count me in for the launching moment. I can't wait. And um, so what are some simple realistic ways? Can you give us a little bit of a what what what you share in the program? Like what are simple realistic ways people can intentionally create uh more moments of joy in everyday life without adding more pressure, like you always say.

SPEAKER_01 25:24

Yeah, I mean, I think that is um really a key approach in trying to support busy, high-functioning, highly productive women is you know, to not add more pressure. Um we have enough on our to-do list. So I always say, you know, keep it incredibly small. Um, you know, make it very doable. So um I'm gonna go back to music, you know, that we talked about earlier. Listen to your favorite song. You know, it's interesting how music just, you know, it uh it connects with so many different parts of our brain. I mean, like all the different parts of our brain, and um, music can be just very healing, very therapeutic, and um bring out joy. So listen to your favorite song. This is my favorite, is watch the sunset. You know, how many of us have taken time to see the sunset? Um I think sunrises are much harder, but we can all, you know, watch a sunset. And um it does fill us with awe, you know, which is you know, it just creates a moment where we're able to see um that you know there's life much beyond us, much larger than us, and it kind of just helps us get out of that, you know, self-focused, uh, you know, problem-centered mindset. Um so yeah, watch a sunset. Let's see, what else uh do I have here on our list? Oh, pet your dog. Yeah. No, yeah, or cat, um, or whatever, you know, furry animal. Pets are incredibly healing and therapeutic, and connecting with our pets is um joyful moments. Another is call someone who makes you laugh. Again, that connection is important. Maybe these days I should just say text someone who makes you laugh and try to, you know, have a little connection there. I know phone calls are much harder these days. What else? Uh drink your morning coffee without scrolling on your phone and just having a peaceful, quiet morning without our phones. And um, the last one I'll say is just notice something beautiful. I know that sounds kind of like very broad, but um when you take a moment, you'll understand what I'm saying. You know, there's beauty all around us. It may be just uh, you know, noticing a flower. Um uh where I go walking, there there's all sorts of little wild, wildflowers growing. And um, sometimes I'll stop and just look at the petals. You know, it it is quite amazing when you just notice the simplicity and beauty of a flower. So so these are all just kind of you know simple things that require us to pause and take notice. And um, you know, the the point isn't to optimize joy. And joy comes when we notice it. And um, you know, because our nervous system learns through repetition, all of these tiny moments matter and they add up. So over time, these moments remind us that life contains beauty and awe, and it's much more than our responsibilities and problems.

SPEAKER_00 29:17

I think that that's kind of why lately we use so much the word practice or habit, right? Not because we want to add one more thing to the to-do list, but we have become used to thinking or acting in a certain way. So it requires, like you said, doing these little things more often so that you've changed your your actions from what they are to what you want them to be, right?

SPEAKER_01 29:45

Absolutely. And I like how you brought up you know the word practice, and it feels kind of silly, but I feel like I had to be reminded to see beauty, notice beauty. If I didn't remind myself, I would not take notice, and it's because I'm just kind of like sometimes a little on autopilot, or um you're just busy, you're doing. And so I remind myself and everyone out there to notice beauty, and it could be something just so simple, and and sometimes we we need to be reminded of that, to practice that. Um, and funny, I I started seeing so many more rainbows. Uh, maybe because it's been quite rainy here in the northeast. Um, but yeah, there's just been a lot of rainbows. And if you don't look and see, you know, look up in the sky, um, you might not see the rainbows and and the beauty of a rainbow. Uh so yeah, it takes practice.

SPEAKER_00 30:58

Joy is something we're born with because uh as if you look at kids or if I remind remember myself as a kid, like we do just need to remember to experience joy. Sometimes it it just takes that because when we're little, you know, you look at the clouds. Now you don't even look at the clouds, but when you're little, you you can spend a lot of time looking at the clouds and at the the shapes that the clouds form, and you just look at the world, you look at the world around you, and that somehow creates space for joy and wonder. And now we don't really remember to look at the world around us. And I think that's why it's very invaluable that you shared with us to even drink our morning coffee without scrolling, because at least that invites us to be present with the world that we're in.

SPEAKER_01 31:57

Or just enjoy that delicious cup of morning coffee, right? Um, you know, drink it mindfully, you know, being fully present and just like tasting all the deliciousness of coffee if you know you enjoy coffee. I I love my coffee, so um, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:17

And Dr. Julie, now for those who are listening who might have lost touch with joy, what's one small invitation you would give them this week? Like where can they start to feel more connected to the experience of joy?

SPEAKER_01 32:35

Well, I'd invite them to become curious instead of critical. Don't ask yourself, why can't I feel joyful? Instead ask, what made me feel most like myself? Or what would feel nourishing today? Or perhaps what would make this moment just a little lighter? Maybe the answer comes easily, maybe it doesn't. Either way, there's nothing wrong. Sometimes joy has simply been buried beneath years of responsibility, stress, caregiving, illness, or survival. You don't have to force it, you don't have to earn it. You simply begin creating these small moments where it has the opportunity to return. And because health isn't only measured by, you know, what's absent, whether it's less pain, less fatigue, fewer symptoms, it's also measured by what's present, more energy, more connection, more meaning, more peace, more moments where you feel alive. And to me, that's what healing is really about. One of the things I love most about the work we do inside the well-being ecosystem is watching people move beyond simply managing symptoms. They don't just feel less stress, they begin to feel more like themselves. And to me, that's one of the greatest markers of well-being. If today's conversation resonated with you, I'd love to invite you into a small moment of reflection. Please visit my latest post on Instagram at julie.ta.md and leave the word joy in the comments. Sometimes the smallest moments become the beginning of the biggest changes. And if you're looking for a place to begin supporting your health more intentionally, you'll also find my free reset guide linked in the show notes. Thank you for joining me in this episode of Medicine with Meaning.