Ep 27: The Mantle Will Not Shrink: How to Grow Into the Calling God Put on Your Life with Chantell Cooley (Joshua 1:9)

Chantell Cooley was in her mid-thirties when her father died. 

At the time, the online university she helped build had nearly 7,000 students (a fraction of the people who'd end up being served.)

And in that season, she saw a worn bomber jacket come down from heaven.

It was too big.

Chantell understood it as a mantle — full of the assignments and abilities God had placed on her life. And she learned something that changed the way she leads: the mantle will not shrink. You have to grow into it.

Today, Chantell is a faith-based leader, spiritual mentor, and former co-founder of Columbia Southern University, which grew into one of the country’s largest online universities. In this conversation, she and Dr. Lee talk about what it means to carry the Kingdom into the marketplace without forcing faith on people, own the gifts God gave you without false humility, and keep taking the next step when transition feels too big.

If you have been wondering whether you can really fit the calling in front of you — or whether it will fit you — this conversation is for you.

In This Episode, Listeners Will Learn:

• Why the marketplace is ministry — how Christian leaders can bring the church with them through the way they treat people, build culture, and lead under pressure.
• What a mantle means for a business leader — how Chantell understands it as the unique collection of assignments, abilities, grace, and authority God has given you.
• Why false humility keeps leaders stuck — and how to own what you are good at without confusing confidence with arrogance.
• How to discern God’s voice in a real decision — why Scripture, wise mentors, ongoing relationship with God, and a willingness to realign matter more than legalistic formulas.
• What transition is actually for — why it is not a place to live, but a space to walk through one foot at a time.
• Why every great assignment is not yours — and how saying no to the wrong opportunity protects your soul and makes room for the one God actually gave you.

Key Quotes:

• “The mantle will not shrink. You have to grow.” 
• “The mantle gets exposed when you start having the language for what you’re good at.” 
• “Not every assignment that’s great is ours.” — Chantell Cooley

Connect with Chantell Cooley:

• Website: chantellcooley.com
• Instagram: @chantellcooley
• Books and mentorship information: available through her website and Instagram bio

Connect with Dr. Lee and the Regulated Roots Community:

• Discover your Primary Motivational Gift: www.growinyourgifts.com
• Join Our Regulated Roots Academy: skool.com/regulatedrootsacademy
• Explore our Agency services: regulatedroots.com/agency

Follow on TikTok: @leechelseacordell

Connect on LinkedIn: Dr. Lee Cordell

Transcript

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SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome back to today's episode, everyone. We're so glad to have you here with us. My guest today spent over three decades building Columbia Southern University from the ground up, growing it into one of the largest online universities in the country before retiring. And as amazingly cool as that is, that's actually not what we're going to be talking most about today. Chantel Cooley is here with me. And she's not a pastor, she's not a business consultant, and she's actually sitting in this really interesting space between these two worlds. She's a spiritual mentor helping Christian entrepreneurs and marketplace leaders discern what God is actually saying in the middle of decisions sitting in front of them. So this is less about abstract theology or detached business strategy. And it's really about that moment where a leader is stuck and doesn't know which way to move. We're going to talk about the fact that what she's found is most leaders are not lacking information. They're lacking clarity about their identity and their alignment. And so if you have been wrestling with your calling, your identity, or how to lead well when the pressure's on, this conversation I think is going to be really beneficial for you. And maybe spirit-led dropped in your lap at the right time. So welcome, Chantel. I'm so excited to have you here. Thank you. Wow, what a great introduction. Probably the best one I ever had. Thank you. Oh, I love that. Yeah, I love to personalize things. I think it's really important because as somebody who worked in the university setting, and they're always like, send us your bio. And I'm like, okay, but which one do you want? Do you want this one? Do you want this one? And we're going to be talking about that identity piece. I think so often what comes in the bio, it's like, okay, but is that really who I am? Or is that indicative of just the things that I've done and the titles I've acquired and the places I've been versus my calling and what I really feel like I'm here to do?

SPEAKER_01 1:44

Yeah, it makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 1:46

You spent the better part of three decades building this massive online university. And you also say that's not why people work with you. So walk me through that transition of building this institution to then marrying these two worlds of spiritual support and also business.

SPEAKER_01 2:13

Trying to figure this thing out. But I really feel like I got this insight on it. And so basically, you know, I've had that 30 years of business experience. And then even when I was like 19 years old, I really felt called to the ministry. I even went off to Bible college and then quit because it's like this is not for me. I had this other dream and ideas about building big things, and I just didn't match with the people there. They were great, but you know, I didn't belong. I got myself out of there and said, God, I'm so sorry. I realized I'm called for the business world. And I'm going to perfect that. I'm going to work it and I'm going to be on fire for God in the middle of it. I'm going to figure this thing out. And I think I did. My family, we're entrepreneurs and we're all Christians, have a strong faith, but our university is secular. We have over a hundred different degree programs, associate through PhD, and we have over 100,000 graduates. And our faculty, our staff, well, I don't know if they're Christians or not. I know they're good people and they had this skill set that we needed when we hired them. And then our goal, it's like a divine appointment. We hire you, we bring you in, and we hold your hand, and we want to know what you can help us do. And then we're going to create a personal development plan and help you grow too. That's the benefit of a Christian owner. You're going to get some benefits from us. Yes, we are Christian owners, and people hear that when they get hired, but that doesn't mean we're going to push it down your throat. You're going to get the benefits of it. You're going to be treated right, you're going to have a great culture. You're going to grow. We're going to try to make this the best place you ever worked in your life. We hope that you're going to have the best boss because we are very selective. Even the vice president, up to the president, and then the probate, they all are constantly learning and their skill sets, you know, how to treat people. So anyway, all that is who we are, and that's what we represent. And I we're not shy about it. And people love it. They've stayed with us for 20 plus almost 30 years now. It's coming up. There's some that have been close to 30 years now. And every year at the Christmas party, they parade, they used to go across the stage. We got so big now. And 10 years, five years, 15 years, I'm just like, the culture that we created in in the very beginning has grown so big that people are staying, and oh, it just blesses me so much. And I even wrote a book on this whole thing called Beyond the Basics, because I thought it was so valuable. So, in a nutshell, that's just the beginning of it. That's kind of my mindset on business and ministry and how you combine it.

SPEAKER_00 5:09

I love that because so our agency, we help Christian business owners, entrepreneurs, leaders, because sometimes they don't personally own the business, but they're in one of those high responsibility roles inside of the business. And a lot of times people say, Well, Lee, our business isn't like yours because you're actually working with just Christians. And I said, you know, the wild part about this is that we actually have a good amount of clients that come to us and say, Hey, we're not Christian, but we love the way you do things so much that we want to work with you. That's awesome. And they're like, as long as you're not going to try to convert us. And we're like, no, I always think back to the quote by St. Francis of like, preach the gospel at all times and if necessary, use words. You are experiencing what it feels like to be in the presence of a business that's centered in God. And so who am I to be like, oh yeah, no, you can't come here because? And the other thing that we hear from people, like I said, is but I run a secular company, and I'm like, great. They we don't we don't want you to run a company that that works just with Christians versus a company that works with the entire marketplace or a subset of the marketplace that has non-Christians in there. We don't want you running your business any differently. Because if you're treating Christians different than you're treating non-Christians, then are you really being Christian? So you say you're not a pastor and you say you're not a business consultant. I'd love to hear more about how you describe the space you're actually in.

SPEAKER_01 6:38

Yeah. Okay, love the question. So I retired early when I was 49. God just blessed us so much. The word worked. We spoke the word, declared the word, our faith grew. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing the word. We stayed on course, we had mountains to overcome, and every giant came after us. But throughout all that, I had one foot in the ministry, one foot in the business world. And the combination of that person is who I am, and that's who you are. Yeah, we're changing lives, I'm changing it through education. So, whatever you do, you're changing it through that. And I've always said that that's our legacy, that's who we are, that's our vehicle we get in, that's the mountain we stand on top of. So that represents me, and that is what I am excited to see. Like when I mentor, I'm trying to show them this. Hey, yeah, you really have a call to ministry, yeah, but maybe you're not supposed to go into the church and preach. I don't want to be a pastor, I just want to change lives in that arena. And guess what? All of us that work in the secular world, we can help our pastors because they can't get into that world. Only we can, and we have the influence to do it. Yeah, if we create wealth and we're called to it, we make a lot of money, that's great. Why not? I give it to the kingdom. I'm a funnel, the money pours through, and I know what to do with it. My husband and I, we give and it shall be given, good measure, pressed down, shaken together. We cannot outgive God. We've tried, you just can't do it. And so that is a representation of who I am, and that job I have is my vehicle. It gets me to business is and offices and people that just need support. You know, they just need help. One time I was mentoring, okay? And I was in the the in our office, it's a three-story building right in the middle of education, and I heard the Holy Spirit spoke to me. I want you to start mentoring your own staff, they need help. I like really, I don't even know how to do that. I guess I should just go with it. He said, Go with it. And I took them to my office. I helped them get promoted, I helped him grow in their communication skills, how to lead people. You know, there's always issues in leadership. Yeah, so I helped him, and I remember the Holy Spirit saying, I don't want you to say a word about me unless the door opens. You don't need to. I'm in you, I'm a magnet, I draw people to you because of your influence. You become very successful in what you're doing. They see that, and you lead well. So I want you to teach them how to get promoted. I want you to figure out what they want in life and help them grow and learn to deal with people and help them get promoted so they can go on vacations and live life and live the American dream. What's wrong with that? I'm like, I'm on this, and it changed my life. I realized this whole evangelistic stuff is outdated. This is the true thing.

SPEAKER_00 9:57

It was so amazing. I'm grateful you're talking about this. And I've noticed that God I love to learn. It's like if there's one way that God speaks to me, it's yeah, give Lee a good book, a good pod, like teach her something, right? Yeah. And I find he often gives me themes. Like there, like for a week or two, it'll just be, hey, Lee, I'm gonna immerse you in this thing. And what the immersion has been, and so of course we're talking now because I love how he times these things up, is around this idea of the workplace being the place that the harvest is gonna come from in the next several years. So there's uh an amazing woman here locally in Columbus. Her name's Trina Ryan, and she's recently started this ministry called Women of Good Work. And I was at an event of hers on Thursday. It was like the inaugural event of this, and it was just like watching the Holy Spirit move. I've never seen an event fill up that fast, have a wait list, have all the like exact right people in the room. Like it was just, it was one of those experiences that you have that you're like, oh my gosh, he's moving so strong. And I'm sharing this because she was talking about the fact that a lot of the people in that space, I would say about 50% of us were entrepreneurs, but the rest were stay-at-home parents. They were working in government, working in education, working in traditional corporate, working in healthcare. There were a few actually in ministry. And she was saying that what's so important for us to all understand is how we can live out the word at work and how it doesn't have to be this, like you were just saying, I don't have to directly like, have you heard the good news of Jesus Christ? Like in every single conversation that I'm having. And just by being bold about my love for Jesus and allowing it to influence how I'm showing up, both being obedient when he calls me to do something and also pouring into other people and helping them experience what it's like to have good work. Like that alone, I think we underestimate that a lot of times. And like you said, we're like, oh, I'm not in ministry because I'm just and I'm like, oh no, you are you are ministering. It's just in a way that, yeah, it's not inside the church, but like the thing to remember is we are the church. So like the church goes where we go, it's not a building, it's a community. And so if you are actually evangelizing beautifully when you bring the church to work through how you are ministering and showing up for people, so I just love what you're sharing there. Yeah, and that's really cool about that event.

SPEAKER_01 12:30

The thing is this I don't need to talk about Jesus. I want you to watch my life, watch how I treat you at work, watch how I handle pressure, watch when I walk down the hall as an owner. Am I going to ignore you or am I going to see you and say hello? How are you? And sit there and wait for you to respond and tell me how you actually are. Am I going to check up on people that I don't have to? That is a Christian, and I call that an undercover agent for God. That's what I am, and that's what I think a lot of us are. We're just changing lives, and it's so natural, and I think it's so good. And when the door opens, maybe I'm not the one to tell that person about Jesus. Maybe I am.

SPEAKER_02 13:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:20

But maybe somebody else down the road is, and it's not the timing, and you've got to really stay focused on that. In the business world, things are different. We have a different language, we talk different, we bring God in. That's probably why me and you are connecting because we're both entrepreneurs, we have this language. We talk different. Sorry, it's different than the church world sometimes. It's how we understand things, and I think preachers are getting that, and they're starting to preach on different messages because there's what 88, I don't know what the percent, 90 percent of the people in the pews or the church chairs are business people, and we want to make money because we have bills to pay and we want to go on vacation, we want to live a good life, and there's nothing wrong with that, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:05

So, what do you say to the leader who maybe they've made it this far in the podcast? And like there's still a little hesitation. Maybe there's a quiet, it might not be a full-blown belief, but maybe there's a part of their heart that's like, okay, but doesn't faith belong in church and the strategy belong in the boardroom? Like, how do you? I think you've already done a pretty good job of explaining this, but is there anything you want to add to that?

SPEAKER_01 14:27

And you combine it and just yeah, it's so funny how I I was with a group of 20-year-olds, well, maybe 18 to 20, and they were like shocked that I was talking about God so strong and I make money. Can you do both? Are you kidding me?

SPEAKER_00 14:44

Oh, that always breaks my heart. Yeah, because it's the pendulum swing between the prosperity gospel and you know, God's a genie or a vending machine, and then also between the you know, God wants you to not have money or not have abundance, he wants you to be like comfortable sitting in your suffering. And I'm like, okay, we've lost the plot if these are the two ways that we're talking about him.

SPEAKER_01 15:07

Yeah, totally lost it. I mean, Abraham was very rich, Joseph.

SPEAKER_00 15:11

I mean, again, oh my god. I think about Paul too, and I always love Philippians. You know, the the I can do anything through Christ who strengthens me. I'm like, go back two verses before that. And he talks about how he is content with little or with much because he's had little and he's had much. He's content no matter what. And I'm like, it is not about how much you have, it's about where the attachment lies.

SPEAKER_01 15:35

And I think we are all called like a Joshua and a Caleb to take land. It's different kinds of land, but I think that a lot when I see people and I pray over them, God gives me a vision of their heart, and a lot of times their dreams are stuck at the bottom. Something has happened that has pushed this big dream they saw. People saying ugly things or judging them or whatever. Fear of failure, fear of success. And they get stuck in this these big dreams, this they're assignments, and they're not fulfilled, they're not hitting the mark, they're just missing it. And that's where I come in. I'm like, okay, let's stir up the gifts and callings inside of you. Put your hand on your heart, let's do what Paul did to Timothy. We stir up the gifts and callings inside of you in the name of Jesus. Let those dreams, my gosh, we can dream big. Let them come up and go for it. Go wild for God. And I help a lot of people. I need to create wealth. That's who I am. I'm called to take land like Joshua and Caleb, and then hold it, and then I'm called to take more. And I will continue to do that. I don't feel weird about that. There's just no way. I mean, I'm an overcomer, I overcome, I take land. The devil's scared of me. He doesn't know what I'm gonna do next. He's scared of you, and we terrify him. Even I heard this from somebody, so I'm stealing it, but those years ago, and he has just stuck with me. You know how things just stick with me? And I wish I could think of who it was to give him credit, but even our worst day is the devil's worst day. Our worst day is his worst day. He is so scared of us. I was thinking about that today. As a business person, we are called to create wealth, we're called to do well, whatever we do, build teams, run a company. Maybe we're a Joseph, we're number two. That's great. You don't want to run that thing, it's a lot of work being an entrepreneur, but all of it, do well, do your best, get promoted. What's wrong with that? And then don't forget to tithe because that's so good, it just opens doors and it gives beyond your tithe. Oh my goodness. And it just keeps coming. You cannot outgive God if you understand a lot of the kingdom principles. I mean, yeah, let me take the money from the wicked and give back to the kingdom. And one last thing, I want to mention this to see what you think about this. I was reading something a while back. I love books like you do. I think they're just great ways to fill your cup, and it stuck with me too. See, God gives pastors and evangelists, and if you're called to full-time ministry, that's amazing. He gives you all these big ideas and dreams and purposes and all that. Well, guess what? It cost money. Yes. So I got this revelation. Oh, I see. So business people or marketplace people, we're called to do well, so then we can tithe, give back to the kingdom, and those pastors get to do those big projects they're called to do, and it's just a full circle. Yes, and I think it fits. I mean, why not? It's okay, and that's just that's my thinking on it. Some people may not agree, it's okay, but for me, I feel very good about it. I think that I love it, and I love how I have my place and they have theirs. Do you think they want to just have a little bitty church? They want to go reach as many people as possible. I mean, I've written books. Well, do you think I want five people to read my book? No, because I have something that I think will move you forward. What's wrong with wanting to? Yeah, I'd love to grow, you know, the book sales and all. Why not? And you will as many people as possible to watch your podcast because you think it'll fill their cup.

SPEAKER_00 19:27

So I love what you're talking about because it's the detachment from the outcome while also still having a desire, right? So for me, it's yeah, my goal, my desire is for this to reach millions and millions of people, like as many people as God wants to put it in their ears, right? And I'm gonna do it if one person's listening. That's right. Because I'm even gonna do it when no people are listening. There's times I've been doing a live on TikTok or somewhere and there's no one there. And I'm like, you know what? That's okay, because this is getting recorded and it's gonna get put somewhere else. Or maybe I'm practicing saying something and I need to work it through this first time. So thank God nobody's here live because the next time I say it, it's gonna be better and there's gonna be people on there. And so I think it's just it's uh there's so much. I was just having my mind go in a lot of different directions as you were talking because it is, it's the I want this because I believe it's good, and I only want it if it's good, right? And so I actually wrote this prayer, I was journaling, and I write, I would say 95% of mornings, you know. Sometimes it's the afternoon, sometimes it's the evening, sometimes it doesn't happen if we're having a pretty rough day. But I write a journal entry to God. It's a letter to him basically every day. And I started off, good morning, good afternoon, God. And I start with thanking him for everything. And I was writing, I was like, hey, God, there are these dreams that my husband and I have right now, and we can see them. They're on the horizon, there's fruition, there's abundance coming, right? And we've been practicing giving you the first fruits. We've been practicing understanding that this is all happening because of you and being grateful first. We've been practicing really understanding that we get to be stewards in accordance with you. And I said, God, either help me attain this desire and feel so satisfied along the way, or take the desire away because I don't want this desire to become more important to me than you, right? So I either need to, in the journey and the attainment of this, uh experience satisfaction, like experience gratitude, experience joy and peace in those fruits of the spirit during this, yeah, or I don't want it because that means I'm uh requiring it to do something or be something or become something in order for me to be like grateful or glorify you. Yeah. But the other piece, and I I think this is so funny. So for those of you who are listening, I was telling Chantel before the episode started that yeah, sometimes I move episodes up and sometimes I wait. The episode that came out on Tuesday, because Chantel's is coming out Thursday, the episode that just came out, Chantel's episode is getting moved up in my brain as we speak because I know that her episode has to come after the one that I just recorded for Tuesday. Because it was literally about being willing to be judged and misunderstood in order to complete your divine assignment. So like you said a couple words there that I was like, I think I just literally said this an hour ago while I was recording. So I was like, okay, great. Those two episodes have to go together or get to go together. But I'm sharing that too because that's something that I've also realized, and I'd love to hear you talk about this because I know you work with a lot of people who feel stuck and sometimes they think they're lacking information when really they're lacking clarity. The podcast started like really taking off when I went, God, you're ordering these episodes, not me. I'm not deciding when each of these messages goes out. You're gonna tell me, I trust you to tell me when these go out because I want to make sure that it's all happening in your divine timing. And as soon as we started doing that, all of a sudden, of course, these are reaching in a way that they weren't reaching before. Wow. Yeah. So I'd love to hear you talk about that because I see people when they feel stuck, they think they're lacking information, and a lot of times they are lacking that clarity and that like surrender, that obedience.

SPEAKER_01 23:46

Yeah. Oh, and I let okay, let's use you as an example. Okay, and I'll come right back to you really quick. When my dad passed away, I was in my mid-30s, probably a little younger than you. And we started the university, it was around 7,000 students. Columbia Southern's online university, so you can enroll at any time. And all of a sudden, this jacket came down from heaven, a bomber jacket, like a motorcycle jacket. It was really beat up because we had been through a lot too. We came from poverty, no one thought we could do what we did, you know, and we grew the university. So here we are. This jacket comes down, and I'm like, oh my god, is that a mantle? And I really didn't understand completely. I began to grow into this mantle. It was a big jacket because the mantle will not shrink. You have to grow, and as a business person, I'm going to explain this from what I think. So, this mantle, I just begin to fit it through character building, through ups and downs, through my journey. And I love what you said about the journey too. It's the middle part. We have to live in the middle. A to B, those are goals. We start, we end, we start again. Okay, well, it's over. You hit the mark, you're gonna start another level, and you're gonna walk through the journey again. And as I begin to walk through this journey, I begin to fit my mantle through leadership, through understanding how to put people on teams, how to build a culture in the university that sustains, how to understand our legacy, how to create it where people like when they work for us, they feel what we felt. We want to help people get educated. We came from nothing, and here we are now. Pass that legacy on to others. When you talk to people on the phone, they were looking for an institution. We want to be their institution, use our story, and that's all developing, okay, throughout time. And then that mantle is fitting me better and better. And so then you come to a point where it starts to fit. Now, let me explain a little bit about that mantle in the business world. We know pastors, evangelists, prophets, teachers all have that mantle, okay. It gets stuck on that side, but we have it as well, and let me just say it's full of your assignments and your abilities. The mantle gets exposed when you start having the language for what you're good at. That comes in with your identity and confidence, it all begins to work together. So, for instance, for you, you just had this ability to communicate well on the podcast. People are drawn to that. You're really good and you know it. That's the thing. You can know it because God said you had the mind of Christ, you're brilliant. One time, God said, Shito, what do you do waiting on five people to tell you if you're good enough doing what you're doing? You already know. I said, You mean I can go ahead and accept it? He said, You have my mind, you're in me, you're brilliant. I'm like, Okay, I'm brilliant at these areas, I'm not great at everything. So that began to define the language of what I carry. So you carry things that just come natural to you. You don't even pay attention. But when you begin to understand your mantle, you go back and look. Oh, I saw the outcome before anybody else. I was able to solve these problems and no one had the answer. I could see through it, I could see motives of people that no one else noticed. I could put people on teams that didn't think that they would fit there. I can see inside situations as an entrepreneur. Well, those are my abilities, those are my talents, and they are inside the mantle. So you're just good at this. You're very rare, you're just good. People are drawn to you, how you talk, how you make them feel when they get on the call, they feel warm and cozy. They just love every moment of it. That is what you care in your mantle. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_00 27:55

Oh, it does, absolutely. And when you were talking about growing into that, I think it's it is something that it's funny, I don't think this was what I was gonna say, but that is something that a lot of people are afraid to do because there's doubt of okay, well, will this really fit me? Will this really fit me? There's also the doubt of, and this almost brings tears to my eyes, will I really fit this? Yeah, it goes in both directions. Like, what if what if this isn't the right thing? And then also, what if I'm not enough for this right thing? Yeah, and what I've found is both of those are very common fears that the enemy uses, he puts on our head, right? Like, this isn't gonna be enough, or you're not gonna be enough.

SPEAKER_01 28:48

Yeah, it's it's awful. That's why a couple years ago, I started really trying to understand the mantle. And what happens is there's this confidence that's attached to your mantle when you own it. You go, look at everything you've been through, all the good, all the bad. And you look at the areas that you're good at. I'm good at delegating, mentoring, I'm good at creating something. I'm not, I don't want to keep staying in it. I like to create and build, and then I move on to another project. That's who I am. I'm good at and I'm only good at a few things. I don't want to be good at everything, and I perfected those things, and I'm okay, I like it. That's my lane, and I had this confidence that when I come on into rooms like this, I'm gonna hit the mark. Why? Because I'm in Christ, I'm brilliant, I have what he has. He says I can think like that, it changes everything. You become bold, you own what you carry, and the devil can't steal it from you. And that's that mantle thing, and you begin to walk in it, and you don't say a word, you can just show up, but the presence you carry, the authority. See, that mantle has this authority, and let me back up because you're gonna love this, all right. Please, yeah. So, okay, you always say close your eyes and think about what your mantle looks like. Think about it. What does it look like? For me, it was that bomber jacket, and God will just begin to show you even now what does your mantle look like? What is the color of it? Is it a short jacket? Is it a blazer? You're a businesswoman. What does your mantle look like, right? And then people go, oh my god, and they start describing it. And I'm like, oh my God, this is amazing. And then your assignments are attached to this mantle, and then grace is on the other side. What is grace? As business people, I've heard grace spoken, but nobody explains it how I can understand it. So let me take a stab at it. It's the ability of God to do all those assignments right here. They're big and they're supposed to be big, they're awesome, and it's no time to shy away anymore. It is time to run after your dreams and go for it. Yes, it takes faith, but step one, acknowledge I am good enough to do these assignments because of the grace. Grace gives you the ability to do the impossible. I am living the impossible, but I know who I am in Christ. One more thing. I do a lot of mentorship on this when I get business people. See Jesus over to the distance. Get an image of him over there. Okay, just let yourself dream and see, and then unzip Jesus and get inside of him and zip yourself back up. Now that is an image of being in Christ. That means when the devil sees you, he don't see you, he sees Jesus. And when you're in him, you have the permission, that's a key word, to think like him. So you think I'm gonna put myself down? No, I am brilliant. You are brilliant because we have the mind of Christ and we can think like that. And that was an eye-opener to me. I owned a university with my family, co-founder, VP for 30-something years, 30 years. I did not have the confidence. I always second guessed myself, even at that level, that should tell you something. Just because we have these titles don't mean nothing. Because you will run out of human strength at some point, and you're gonna have to shift over to that inner place, that capacity inside that you've developed with that grace right here, your assignments here, and because things are gonna get too big for you, and I just didn't believe in myself. And finally, one day I knew I was called to minister to Brazilians. I had retired at 49. I began to minister to business people, men and women in Brazil, but nothing was working, and finally I said, That's it. I accept the call by faith. I'm called to change lives in the business world. I'm called to America to change business people's lives. Did you know when I acknowledged it, spoke it out of my mouth, I heard myself say it within 30 days? Things began to get unstuck and that delay stopped. I began to own what I was good at. I knew I could do this. Okay, I'm not perfect. Tomorrow I will be better than today. I'm always growing, right? But that mantle began to fit me. That leadership mantle, I began to own it. I started having this confidence. And then years later, I went back into our university because I'm in the parent company now. Doesn't mean I do the day-to-day. I went back and began to train on leadership principles, some things that I really love. People said, Wow, you're just different. And I went, I know I am, because I had this confidence from him. I know that I'm good at this, and I can say it. I'm not arrogant, I'm not trying to be arrogant, but I own what I carry. And so I showed up in that room, girl. I owned it. I sucked all the air out, and that anointing that I carried of leadership, that mantle of leadership, of success, I owned it, and it penetrated, it went into every seat. That anointing, the mantle, they both worked together, and people just their eyes opened up, their brain opened up, and they were able to receive what I carried. I just did my thing. And if there was anybody to judge me, they couldn't because, see, you carry this heaven's frequency when you get on this level of authority. And things, this is where success starts chasing after you instead of you chasing after it. You stand on the mountain, you own what you carry. Wow, that's a lot of stuff I've gone through, but I'm good at three or four things, and I have become an expert, and I'm going to go ahead and say, Yeah, I'm good. Of course I'm good, but I'm getting better. But I can help you. And when you get a hold of that, that's heaven's frequency. Nobody can say nothing. People who are jealous of you, they can't even open their mouth anymore. And you're not scared of success. You just do your thing, and you already know how the meeting is going to end. You already know how the podcast will end because you just can believe that way. Oh, it's so life-changing.

SPEAKER_00 35:35

Oh my gosh. I'm like, I can't wait for people to hear this because I'm already here just being so blessed by what you're sharing. So I've been a great speaker my entire life. Like, that's just like put me on a stage and I'm going to do a great job. That's just is what it is. And a lot of times I don't even need notes. And I've had people say this. They're like, how do you prepare? And I'm like, I can actually over-prepare. If I am too restrictive in allowing God to just come in and use me as a vessel the way that He desires to use me, I can actually really like dilute the message. I can kind of strip off some of that oil. And so I intentionally learned and understood this is the point you prepare to leave, and you don't go further than that because that's what leaves the space for the grace, right? If I go further, the grace doesn't have any place to come in. And I am hearing myself say that and laughing because I've talked about this in previous episodes, but the word that God has placed on my heart this this year was the word prophet, but I heard it, I didn't see it. And so I said, God, well, which one? F-I-T or P-H-E-T? And he was like, Yes. And I went, Oh, so it's two words. And he's like, Yes, but what I want you to understand is for you, I'm oh, I just got head to tail. For you, they're one wordly.

SPEAKER_02 37:03

Oh, it's so good.

SPEAKER_00 37:05

You speaking and sharing what I am calling you to share equals profit. And for me, understanding the profit, I always think about profit in the the financial way of margin, right? So he's like, I need you to create space. I need you to create space for me to come in and for this grace to really do what it can around these assignments, but I need you to pick up, put on this mantle of profit that I'm giving you because I did not give you this voice for you to listen to the people who are telling you that you're you shouldn't be speaking and you're a bat, you know, all of that. That's the enemy, and he's coming after you as hard as he is in that area right now. Again, if you're listening to this on Thursday, this Thursday podcast, go back to Tuesday because I talked about this a lot. He's coming after you this way because he understands that you are really starting to fit that mantle, and you're accepting that that mantle was designed for you. Oh, yeah, and you are scaring the heck out of him because he's realizing that he is losing all of the places and points of control that he had over you. And and I'm gonna say this this is a bold thing. My husband and I were like, What's the worst way you could die? And I said, Without the name of Jesus on my lips, that's the worst way I could die. And he's like, What's the coolest way you think you could die? And I'm like martyred all the way. I'm not even afraid to die saying what I'm saying anymore because I love Jesus so much and I'm so committed to what I feel like he is calling me to do that if I died doing it or as a result of it, I would feel proud and excited to get to see him in the next moment and be like, that's how it ended. And I know that's a bold thing to say, but the fact that it's to that point now of like that's where I feel him calling me and what I feel him calling me to do. Yeah, like he can't he can't mess with you there. The devil can't mess with you there. And so I've had people ask, they're like, Well, so do you feel like you're suffering less or more now? And I'm like, y'all, I that's the wrong question. The question isn't how much am I suffering? The question is how much joy am I experiencing through all of it? And the answer is that the joy has been jacked way up. Yeah. But I think back to where I was before that, and it was this place of false humility. It's the well, I'm gonna pretend that I'm not amazing at this because other people have taught me to do that, or because I don't want to make other people feel bad. And it actually ties back to the money thing, too. I'm not gonna accept the abundance that God wants to give me because, and I think that whatever comes on the other on the back half of that question, like when you ask people that and you're like, well, why don't you want to own what you're good at? Or why don't you want to have that abundance? I think that because, like, that's where your fear lives, and figuring out what that is is really important. Yeah, how do you help a leader? Because this is something that I had to really figure out for myself. I didn't have people telling me how to do this, and so now I always love when I have other people who teach this because I'm like, please share this. How do you tell the difference between God's voice, your own kind of like struggle for control and ambition, and then just like plain fear from the enemy? So the enemy, the flesh, and God.

SPEAKER_01 40:44

Yeah, yeah, that's a good question. Let's try to navigate through this together.

SPEAKER_00 40:50

I know that's a big question, but we've got time.

SPEAKER_01 40:52

So, well, let's go back to Genesis when it talks about God said we'd have dominion over, you know, he's talking about dominion over the birds and all that. We have dominion, okay? So that means we have authority when things get out of line. We can say, I command you to move back in line, I command the crooked places according to Isaiah to be made straight. So you're taking authority over situations, and it's like we need to quit being so legalistic. I mean, I grew up in the church too, and I'm done with that because it puts you in all these boxes where you don't know if you can believe in yourself. But see, we're in Christ, and so he talks to us, and it sounds like us, really. I mean, maybe we hear an audible voice, but I've never really heard I hear myself, I hear it sounds a lot like me, and sometimes it sounds different, but you have to get confident that you're in Christ, and what does that mean? There's a language to that, it means you're zipped up in him, if that makes sense to you. And it means that I'm going to speak over myself what God says, what Jesus says over me. I'm not going to speak what the devil says anymore. I'm not going to second guess myself. I'm going to stick with who I am in Christ. And I'm going to get mentors in my life to help me and guide me. Yes, you may make mistakes, and sometimes you do. You miss it just a little bit, but it's okay. It's not that you miss something, it's how fast can you get back in alignment? Yes. Just get back in your seat according to Ephesians 2.6. I tell myself, go sit in that chair by Jesus. When you sit in your chair, you're far above Principality's powers and rulers of darkness. That chair has got my name on it. I own it. Jesus is right there by me. I have access to him. I can run to him. I can talk with him because he said we can come to him being bold. And I can laugh with him. I can ask him what does he think about the situation, any little thing. He says I can interrupt him at any moment. And that has been life-given to me. So then now I don't question myself. I don't go, have you prayed enough today? That's all really comes against you. Maybe you're a busy woman or man, and you missed out on your devotion you had in the morning. So what do we do? Well, we get in this legalistic thing. Well, shoot, I'm gonna have to start all over with God. I was working my way up to hear him really clear, and now I messed up three days in a row. It's terrible. I lived all of that, and I bet you a lot of people can go, yeah. And you know what? Remember years ago where you hear a lot of people say you got to pray three hours a day in your prayer language or whatever. Okay, okay, that's all great, but there's a new season now, and I remembered about Joshua, and this is how I got myself out of that. There's nothing wrong with that. I wish that I could pray that long, but my body. My mind adapts to something a little different and it works for me. So get out of the legalistic stuff because it's the devil, because it'll stop you from really getting close to God. That's the whole thing. What helps you get close to Him? Then do that. So let me take you back to Joshua 1.8. And I hope this kind of gets back to what you're asking.

SPEAKER_00 44:21

No, you're please keep going. This is phenomenal.

SPEAKER_01 44:23

All right. So Joshua 1.8, this book of the law shall not depart out of your mouth, but you shall meditate day and night. Hmm, day and night. What is that? So if you do that, though, it says you'll make your way prosperous and have good success. That's how we came out of poverty and bankruptcy when I was 19. We meditated. We got scriptures and we began to speak the scriptures that covered our case. We were poor, we had no money, we had no job, and we command the crooked places to be made straight. We're overcomers, we're blessed going in according to Deuteronomy 28. We're blessed going out. And we begin to speak all of that. That's what I teach a lot. Hey, I gotta get you speaking the word because what'll happen, according to Joshua 1.8, that's what you stand on. It'll make your way prosperous and you'll have good success. I never forgot it. It's my foundation. I still do it today, and success chases after me. I can't get enough. I look that way, it hits me. I look that way, it hits me. Why? Because that's what the word said do. So here we go. Joshua 1:8, meditating day and night. All right. Joshua had just taken in chapter one of Joshua the reins from Moses. He died, and God said, Hey, listen, you're going to have to now navigate this. Don't try to be like Moses. He's a different personality. Be who you're called to be. You're a warrior, you're kind of more militant in this way. Take the land. Now, you're gonna have to be strong and courageous. How many times have you heard a preacher talk about that? This is my definition of how to explain it through a business person's language. Okay, I'm giving you our language. Okay, be strong and courageous, Joshua. Be strong and courageous, and on and on and on. And then all of a sudden, it goes back to Joshua 1.8. Oh, that's how you can be strong and courageous while you're taking land. What's land? It's stuff that you want, it's things that you want to do, you want to do a project, you want to get a promotion, you're taking land. Okay, and so this is the revelation to that. So during that 40 years, Joshua and Caleb are training, they're getting ready to be in war, they're learning a lot of things they need to learn, how to navigate the territory, how to throw a spear and all that. Okay, so it takes time, and that can be by our life. It takes time. Look at everything you've gone through, and here you are today. Okay, so Joshua and Caleb begin to cross the Jordan. Do you think they had a lot of time to get in the word and pray like they did those 40 years? Oh, yeah, no, because they are in battle, they're getting hit, and they if they look that way, they're gonna get killed. So they're bringing the word with them on the go. So before I get on this podcast, I guarantee you did too. I thank you, God, for wisdom beyond my years. I'm gonna hit the mark today. I'm gonna be bold. I'm gonna talk exactly what you want to hear, Holy Spirit. I'm gonna follow her lead, I'm gonna walk with her, and God, we're gonna blow this thing out of the water. We're gonna change thousands of lives, and I'm gonna help her get her podcast out around the world. I'm gonna be used to help you. Okay, so I prayed all that. I'm on the go, I'm bringing the word with me. It's in me. I'm speaking it, declaring it. I have the wisdom of God, I have favor, favor uh overtakes me like Psalm 512, like a shield about me. I mean, so I have all these scriptures I just kind of paraphrase that are mine. Do I feel bad about that? No, they I made them where I can understand and I pushed them forward. So I believe, I believe, I'm living that out. And that word we spoke 30 years ago got my dad an open door. Angels came to our home and visited while we were speaking that word. The angels heard the word spoke, they were activated, they came into our home. My brother saw them one night. It was unbelievable. Yes, it happened, and we they were warring, but the devil was trying to destroy my family. We were almost out of food. It was unbelievable. My dad's an entrepreneur, he had all these dreams, and now he wants to kill himself. We were in a fight, so my mom and I stood up and we said, We're gonna speak the word because it says if we do this day and night, we're gonna have good success. And girl, we did, and it began to open doors that no man could open. Nobody thought we were good at anything. They looked at us and said, They're the poorest people. I said, We are not made to be poor and in poverty. We have something, and we begin to speak the word and we have not stopped since. And I believe the word will jump ahead of you for miles and miles, depending on if you understand how to speak the word and declare it. It will fix stuff before you get to that place and it will change your life.

SPEAKER_00 49:25

So, three things. One, I got led to Deuteronomy 28 yesterday, and I I've read the whole Bible, but I'm reading this, and I'm like, I do not remember this the way that I'm I'm like, What? I'm like, did you add this? And you know, I'm joking. But that is the beautiful part about the Bible is that again, there's this deeper and more inspired revelation. The more time you're spending in his word, you're gonna see things that you've never seen before. I we I teach on spiritual gifts and the motivational spiritual gifts that Paul talks about in Romans chapter 12, verses six through eight. And I spent a year on those three verses. And every time I'd get in them, I'm like, oh, there's more. Oh, there's more, oh, there's more. And I'm sharing that because you memorizing or you know, paraphrasing and and really taking in and embodying these few, I'm doing air quotes, like these few verses that alone can provide divine revelation for the rest of your life, right? And the other thing that you're speaking about here that I think a lot of people don't understand is God speaks to all of us differently. He's designed us all differently. We have this sensory system that has, I saw this video yesterday. Apparently, there's a website you can go to and you can type in the year you graduated and you can see everything that they have now proven that they taught you wrong. And I'm like, I don't even know that I want to go look at that because it's gonna be a lot, right? But I remember learning, you know, you have five senses. I'm like, we have way more than five senses. The senses that we often talk about are the senses that allow us to see in the physical realm, and there are senses beyond that allow us to really understand in the spiritual realm. And I say that because for me, like when I hear God, and the more time I spend in his word, and the more time I understand who he is, I also hear the enemy. And the enemy can sound a lot like God at times, and the devil he knows scripture. We know this, you know, in in Matthew, Jesus goes into the desert for 40 days, the devil is quoting Old Testament scripture at him. He knows it works, he knows it works, and so part of this that I'm glad you're talking about, because I think that this is part of growing into fitting into the mantle, is it's not just about understanding who you are, it's about understanding who God is. And the more and more you understand who God is and how he has designed things, the better able you are to discern when whether you're hearing a physical voice or you're, you know, just sensing it or seeing signs or whatever, the more you're able to discern, like, oh, that is from God and that is not. And the more you're able to also discern this is coming from me and my habits, my patterns, my learnings versus this is coming from something external. It is something that develops over time, and also there are plenty of people who have not read a single Bible verse who Jesus appears to and makes it very clear that it's him and gives a very specific word. And so I want to make sure to kind of provide the nuance and the duality of that of like, we obviously want to grow and we want to deepen and we want to understand him better, and also like he is all-powerful and all-knowing, and he will in times make it very clear that it is him, and without you having done all of that. And so, like I just think it's so beautiful how we were talking about I think it's Isaiah 43, 10, and he where he says, I've summoned you by name, you are mine, and the idea of don't be afraid because of that, he knows us all so individually and personally, and the way that he calls us forth is so it is so personal and it is so intentional. And I just think that it's such a beautiful part about that of like everybody's mantle is different. Everybody's mantle is different, and he designed you and he called you by name, and he doesn't want you to be afraid, and he wants you to be bold and be confident and be curageous, courageous. He wants you to like if you're a Moses, be a Moses, if you're a Joshua, be a Joshua, if you're a Paul, be a Paul, like be who he made you to be.

SPEAKER_01 53:54

Yeah, yeah, there's different facets to your mantle. You can shift into like you're building, you may be a builder, you're building projects, and then you shift to more of like steward, where now you're gonna steward it for a while, so you're developing in that part of that, and then you're going to shift to a catalyst, you're doing something that God showed you that nobody else is really doing, you know, there's different parts to it.

SPEAKER_00 54:23

I feel like I say this a lot, but especially today, I feel like I could talk to you for hours. And if someone's in a season of transition right now, whether it's you know, God's really making that mantle known, and they're like, Oh, this is big, right? Can I fit this? Will this fit me? Or if they're in a season of transition, like you said, sometimes there's that shift that happens and they're feeling uncertain and feeling that pressure to figure it out. What would you want them to know?

SPEAKER_01 54:50

Well, first of all, let's define the transition. I was in Brazil preaching one time, and God gave me this language for it. You see, that's the key. Okay, you're gonna feel stuff and sense it, and that's kind of what God's showing me to mentor on when I forget with business people is okay, where are you? Okay, are you really in a transition? Now, let's give you the language to what's happening. What is actually what is a symptom of going through a transition? What do you feel like? What is actually happening to you in your business, in your walk? What is going on? What are the moving parts around you? Are people believing your business? Are people wanting to get hired? Or are you sensing something like there's a bad apple there? Is your inner circle following you even now? And they weren't before. Have you moved ahead and they got stuck on the old vision? Maybe it's over. Maybe you need to readjust. See what I mean? There's language to all of that. Oh my gosh. I mean, so that transition, let's go back to that. You know, transition is only it's not a very big space. A lot of people get stuck in there for years and live there for their whole life. It's so sad because they get so scared. Fear won't let them think big. They have had a lot of things happen, they've lost money, they've had wrong people betray them, and they're just shut down. And they live now in a transition phase. Do you know what's in that transition? It's a lot of anxiety and stress because you are moving yourself forward, and it's not all bad. The devil gets in there, of course, and tries to get you all revved up. The thing is, look, the devil probably knows that you're not gonna go backwards, you're not gonna leave God. Okay, it's established, but I'm gonna make your life pure hell while you're on this earth. So I'm gonna get you all riled up and I'm gonna make you mad at people and all this stuff, okay? But he can't move you from God because you're like all in. But he will get you in that transition phase. And that transition phase is only to transition. Say it's six feet wide, that's not very big. You walk through it one foot at a time, you do not let your feet stop. I think we all have to have a vision of our feet. When we get up in the morning, our feet touch the ground, we become the devil's worst nightmare. We terrorize him, and we got to know that's being bold. Yeah, I terrorize you, Satan. You better be scared of me. And when you mess around with me and my family, you make me more powerful, and I'm gonna come back and I'm gonna take more land than I did before. Yeah, you know what I mean? So the transition phase, we have to keep walking through it. Yes, it's not easy, it's scary. That's all the symptoms of it, but you gotta own what you carry. If God did bring me out this far to take me back again, I can do this. I'm the head, not the tail, according to Deuteronomy 28, 1 through 7. I'm all of verses 1 through 7. I live out all of them, and I'm going to take the next step. And the way I see it is there's seasons. This is a prophetic kind of vision that I have. So there's different levels, and just think of them as a plane. You can look across. Wow, I'm on that level. I can see way down there. All right. Well, when it's time to get out of your transition and you go up, you can see your foot stepping up on the next level. It's like your foot goes way up high. I can see it. And you step on that ground and you start walking. The thing is this you cannot take the old tools and the old strategies of warfare that you had in the other season, which is that level below. You went up higher. You have new stuff. And so I hope that person out there has been expanding this capacity in here, spending time with God, developing your own style, going deeper. So this gets bigger and bigger in here, not out here. If you grow that out there and this doesn't grow, you're gonna collapse. So we so me and you know this. So we grow, grow, grow, grow, grow. We speak the word, declare the word, we do whatever we get in the word, we find nuggets, and this gets huge. And now you have the ability to handle the next level and the warfare on that level, and that's kind of my definition of transition. Sometimes when I mentor people, like I have a group mentorship, I have a gold where we just do one-on-one, and then I have a lead. So I get to spend time with people, and I'm like, close your eyes. What do you see your feet doing? Are they stuck? Where are they? You've got to be able to see your feet, and they need to be moving. Sometimes they're running, yeah, sometimes they're walking very sure of themselves. One foot, and you're taking land as you go, and just keep walking. And then that other question you had is what do you do? You're scared to make the next step. Step one acknowledge what God showed you. I've started going, you know what? I'm in Christ. So I'm hearing him right now. I know what he's saying, I'm gonna go with it. If I mess up, I mess up. I got to learn, I got to practice. So I'm not gonna be so scared not to make a move. Yes, I've messed up so many times, but I know how to fix it. So I make my step forward, I knock on the door, I put my hand on the door, I open it, I look around, like, okay, let's walk through it. And I say, God, I just ask you to shut this door. I'm not supposed to be here. Just shut it down. That's it. If this isn't right, God, I don't want it, right? Yeah, and one more thing, you probably believe this too. I had this revelation, not every assignment that's great is ours. Right. I was taking every assignment, my soul was so tired. I was going to Brazil speaking all the time. I was trying to be like these other women because they go so much, and I was admiring them, and I wanted to be that woman in the ministry because I'm retired. And the Lord said, What are you doing? I wore my soul out. I was so tired, I just quit everything. I shut down, I stopped, and that's when I wrote this book that came out of bed.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:10

You ended up speaking so much to a lot of what I have recently gone through, and actually, it's amazing, it's miraculous. You actually just said something right after you said this is prophetic, and I'm like, it absolutely is because I literally had a dream about the very thing that you're talking about right here, and what I heard in that dream was a former mentor who was the person who just every time where I was like, I think I'm out, she was like, I love that you got to this point because I have something better for you. And it she did this to me two or three times. Yeah, and every time I was like, I'm out, she's like, Nope, you just grew into what I needed you to grow into, so now I can hand this to you. I haven't spoken to her in maybe five, six years. I had a dream and she said to me very clearly, I'm standing on steps. And she said, Lee, I need you to step up to a higher level. She's like, the level that you're trying to get to, God wants you up way higher than that. So are you gonna accept that assignment? And so, right as you're speaking, I was like, that is where all the struggle and stress recently is getting ready, preparing to be like, yeah, okay, well, what do I need? What do I need in order to be able to step up there? Because I'm making moves in order to be able to take that step up. And so I'm so grateful that you shared that because I think that's gonna resonate with a lot of people. A lot of people that I personally know listen to this are gonna get so much out of everything that you said, and in particular, that last bit there. So, Chantel, if people want to connect with you further, I know I want to connect with you further. If other people want to connect with you further, we'll make sure it's in the show notes too. And just in case they're listening or driving or whatever, how should they connect with you?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:52

Again, it's been a blessing to be with you. We have connected because we're just kind of on that same heaven's frequency, you know what I mean? Yeah, and so you bless me, and I hopefully I've blessed you too. Absolutely. Shantoli is my Instagram, and then I have one in Brazil. So if you've got Brazilians listening, they can jump on that one. But Shanto Cooley on Instagram, ShantoCoule.com is a website, and you know, you can look in my Instagram bio and see everything that I'm doing. I have a lot of books on Amazon and my website that I've written. And yeah, I'm just having fun. And I mentor, I developed a mentorship program that I didn't think I could do. I didn't know God knew me better than I knew myself.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:36

I love that. Yeah, he's like, Oh, you think you can't do that? Okay, we'll see. Well, thank you again. This is just an absolute blessing, and I deeply appreciate it. And we'd love to have you back on again in a few months if you're open to it. Because I think this was just phenomenal. So thank you so much. All right, I've been a wonderful time. Everyone, I hope that this blessed you as much as it blessed me and it blessed us. And we're just so grateful to you for listening, praying that you have a wonderful week ahead, and we will see you next week.