Book Club-The Third Gilmore Girl, written by Kelly Bishop

📚 Beautiful Chaos Book Club | The Third Gilmore Girl

We’re launching the Beautiful Chaos Book Club, and our very first pick is The Third Gilmore Girl by Kelly Bishop — the actress we all know and love as the iconic Emily Gilmore.

In this episode, Tammy and Staci dive into Kelly Bishop’s incredible journey from ambitious ballet dancer to Broadway star in A Chorus Line, to beloved roles in Dirty Dancing and Gilmore Girls. Her story is full of grit, reinvention, tough lessons, and the kind of determination that proves dreams don’t always follow a straight path.

We talk about the tenacity it takes to pursue your passion, how life’s unexpected turns can lead to incredible opportunities, and why Kelly Bishop’s story resonates with so many women chasing their goals.

Grab a cup of coffee (very Gilmore-style ☕) and join us as we discuss our first book club pick!

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:02

Today we're kicking off something new for Beautiful Chaos. Thanks to you. It's our very first book club.

SPEAKER_02 0:10

And the book we're starting off with is The Third Gilmore Girl by Kelly Bishop, who many of us know as the unforgettable Emily Gilmore. Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_03 0:21

And this one is the one that that chose this book, and it was an amazing choice because I I so enjoyed uh reading this. Maybe you'd like it. Yes. And I really didn't know anything about uh her as a person. So this was was really good. It was an incredible story behind the woman who played her, Kelly Bishop. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 0:42

So we learned from ballet dreams in New York to Broadway to Dirty Dancing, of course, to Gilmore girls. Her life was really a story about tenacity and reinvention.

SPEAKER_03 0:52

Yeah, I feel like that just is a theme that keeps reoccurring through us our all of our episodes is like tenacity, courage, yeah, you know, overcoming things. So um so today we're talking about what surprised us most and what inspired us and what this book says about chasing your dreams, even what life takes a few, even when life takes a few unexpected turns. Correct. Because I feel like it always does. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:18

It's a beautiful chaos this rolls to spin. It's a beautiful chaos sometimes sometimes to speak to beautiful this beautiful chaos.

SPEAKER_02 1:48

Welcome to Beautiful Chaos. I'm Stacey Miller. And I'm Tammy Ramsey. And today's episode is our first book club episode. And today we're gonna talk about the third Gilmore Girl, and this is by Kelly Bishop. Um, many of you know her from the Gilmore Girls, of course. You may also know her as Marjorie Houseman, the mom on Dirty Dancing, or you may know her from a course line. So we're gonna talk about a little bit of each of those periods in her life and um what we thought of this book in general. I hope you guys read this book along with us. If you did not, I hope after this episode you feel encouraged to want to read this book with us.

SPEAKER_03 2:27

Yeah, and I'm not I've never been one to read autobiographies. Um I think I read I read a lot of self-help stuff um and um romance novels and mysteries, but uh this is really good.

SPEAKER_02 2:42

Yeah, I'm a big fan of autobiographies or biographies in general. I just feel like you can learn a it's on it's almost its own version of self-help. But for me, instead of I I want to know why somebody became the way that they are and how they got there. Because I think, especially when it comes to like Hollywood and and actors, we kind of put them on this weird pedestal where we think that you know maybe their life was kind of handed to them on a silver platter and everything comes really easy to them. But with this book, I think we definitely learned that that was not what happened with her. She did not grow up with a silver spoon in her mouth and she fought hard for everything that she ever got in her life. So um it's really important, I think, way to maybe learn life lessons is by learning somebody else's story.

SPEAKER_03 3:34

So yeah, and understanding that what when you know, when you're seeing her in in one of these movies and you think, yeah, it was so easy to get there, but you find out the truth, like you said, it's right, it's not. And and I think everybody in real life, that's the way it is. Kids tend to look at parents as well, I want everything mom and dad had, and I want it yesterday. Well, no, it took mom and dad like 50 years to get what where they're at. So this is this kind of a same similar idea, but I really I loved learning all about her because it it did show just how um she didn't pretend life was perfect, she just accepted it and just was kind of bullheaded, like, well, okay, but I'm just gonna keep going. I'm gonna do it anyway. And yeah, she moved, I can't remember where she was born, but it was like halfway across the country to go to New York.

SPEAKER_02 4:28

She was born in a really small town in Colorado, and somehow her mom had an interest in ballet and needed to get her out of the house and get her doing something that gave her some sort of purpose. And I think it was like six years old she started ballet and really fell in love with ballet, and ballet ended up being kind of her ticket, her way out of her life in Colorado, and also how she kind of started her foundation in New York. Um, so originally she wanted to be a professional ballet dancer. So we learned that early on in the book. And then um she didn't get what she wanted in Colorado, right?

SPEAKER_03 5:07

Right. She wanted to be accepted into a company and that company didn't accept her.

SPEAKER_02 5:14

And she could have very well stopped right there. Yeah, she could have been there. Right, like that, then that's what's so important, I think, about reading books like this is that that could have been the day that she said, I guess this isn't for me. I'm gonna go be a secretary and I'm gonna get married and have kids.

SPEAKER_03 5:28

Yeah. Well, and think about it, because when she was auditioning for that for that spot, and her her dance teacher was friends with this leader of this ballet, and so she kind of felt like, well, I've kind of got an inn, I've kind of got somebody in my corner. And she was very good. She was very good. She felt like she earned it in that way, also. But somehow she just didn't get picked, and yeah, you could totally go into the pity me and be like, Well, this expert person in this ballet I wanted to be in said, Right, I'm not good enough, so I must not be good enough to continue on with my dream.

SPEAKER_02 6:02

But instead of giving up, giving up, she pivoted and then she packed her stuff and moved to New York. And it's one of those typical like move to New York kind of stories where she had, you know, a nickel and nothing and was, you know, living out of a tuna can kind of thing. And she made her living initially as a um background dancer on Broadway. And that was a very common nine to five, obviously not nine to five, but you know, everyday kind of job that people could get. It didn't pay well. Um, I think that's the other misconception that we get from people who are actors or work on Broadway is that they must make so much money, and no.

SPEAKER_03 6:44

That's why a lot of them are waiters and waitresses, because they can make bank on tips and they can have a little uh flexibility in their schedules.

SPEAKER_02 6:50

Yeah. So she she was just a constant background um dancer, and it was making enough to make the bills, and that was it. And then she catches um a rumor that there's a bunch of people gathering together to talk about maybe making a show about background dancers, and this was the part of the story that I think like hooked me in because I've always loved a course line. Um I did not know who was ever in a course line. I just I I've seen the movie and I know the soundtrack, and I've just always been a fan, but I had no idea that what they would do is they would get all these dancers together and just open up a tape recorder and have everyone just sort of start telling their stories of how they grew up, how they were raised, um, how they got into theater, why they like dance. And in this process, the director actually created a chorus line off of her life story. I mean, part of it was based off of her life story.

SPEAKER_03 7:56

The character. The character in there was based on her life story, and then so they took real people and created this. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:04

And she ended up winning a Tony for a chorus line. Um, and actually, for those of you that are Gilmore Girls fans, she won a Tony the same night as Ed Harriman also won.

SPEAKER_00 8:15

Oh.

SPEAKER_02 8:16

Played her husband on Gilmore Girls. Oh and so they've had a long history of kind of knowing each other through the Broadway circuit. But you know, the story of a chorus line is amazing. While I was reading this book, they were actually doing the 60th anniversary of a chorus line, I believe it was. And so there was um a lot of people who went and did a one-night show. It was not televised, and I was very angry. So I only saw like little bits and pieces on like TikToks and YouTube and things like that. But she was up there and in her ripe old age of none of my business, she was dancing on stage with a bunch of young people that were reviving Chorus Line, and that was amazing. So yeah, Chorus Line was a huge pivotal part of her life, but again, was not her claim to fame. It did not make her a huge Broadway star that went off and starred in a bunch more Broadway plays, it did not land her in the next big giant role in the next big movie or TV show. She was a struggling working actor. She's still a struggling working actor if I want to give away the end of the book. I mean, nothing was ever handed to her.

SPEAKER_03 9:21

Right. And I think the overall theme to this whole book is that, you know, sometimes you start off with one dream, but it isn't the the real dream that you should be chasing. It changes. Like life changes and your goals change and the things that you change. But one thing that didn't change is that is her tenacity and her hard work and and her work ethic to become whatever it was. Like if it was thrown at her, uh, you know, if she had an opportunity, you know, and she'd go for it, she gave it 150%. Like she was like all in and then some.

SPEAKER_02 9:55

And so And I think she was nervous, you know, her comfort zone was dancing. Yeah. And so when they told her that she was gonna get this part and it would require her to sing a song, not just sing, not just sing, sing on Broadway and sing on Broadway about the not abusive to her, but abusive father and rough upbringing that she had, and put her whole heart and soul. And, you know, she always thought of herself as not a good singer, she always thought of herself as not very pretty, which I think is wild, and um she still put herself out there, you know. And I think about you, where the first time we had you singing in a show at the Rimbo Theater, she was a nervous wreck and she was taking um singing lessons constantly, and she'd come in and was really hard on herself all the time about, you know, I shouldn't be doing this. I I don't know if I'm comfortable singing. Um, did I sound okay? Did that sound okay? Should I try it again? Should I do it differently? No confidence, none at all. And then however many years later, she's singing lead in a band or singing karaoke or singing at a birthday party and just perfectly comfortable like lead singing anywhere. But it took a lot to build that same courage, right?

SPEAKER_03 11:15

And that is the same with her, and it's funny because I think that that thought of not being able to do something comes from the same spot. Her mother told her she wasn't very pretty, her mother told her, you know, her looks weren't gonna get her anywhere. No, and she had no support that she was a singer ever. Like no one, you know, and that was my grandmother was like, You, you, you're tone deaf. There's something wrong, and I can't even fix it. And she because she was a uh soprano and she was just naturally gifted, she can play any instrument, like all those things. So I'm sometimes it's somebody that kind of puts you down, but you have to go, No, I'm gonna fight this and I'm gonna do the opposite of what they're saying. Like, don't tell me I can't sing, I'm gonna step outside my comfort zone, be scared to death to do it, right? But I'm gonna do it. Right. Yeah. So that's I feel like that is the same as her, and that's that's that's huge. And she did amazing, and just like with the acting thing, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:11

The acting was not something she was. That was not a radio, yeah, was going to do either. Again, she didn't have the confidence, she didn't think she was, you know, a pretty movie star. Um, and so uh, you know, a lot of us know her as uh Marjorie Houseman on Dirty Dancing, No one puts baby in a corner. Um I just want to point out if if those of you who are on YouTube can zoom in on this picture right here, let me get it out of her way. Why did you say that you're not thinking you're pretty? She's dropped dead gorgeous. She's gorgeous. And I think she was, you know, she did play a very proper housewife that came from old money in um dirty dancing, also. And she ended up playing, you know, Emily Gilmore coming from old money in Gilmore Girls. She was never that person. She didn't come from old money, she didn't come from new money. She she really struggled the whole time. And I think the Gilmore Girls role was probably her most comfortable that she was, where she was able to feel like the house payments were being made and things like that. But at the same time, she's still working today, yeah. Well into her none-of-my business age.

SPEAKER_03 13:27

Well, and she said that was also her um kind of keep yourself busy, like you just have to keep yourself going, you have to keep yourself because she'd lost a pet that was really really dear to her, and she just threw herself back into work, and then she lost her husband to cancer and it was a battle, and and she threw herself back into work because that's where she always felt good. Right. And um, I want to say that when she tried out for dirty dancing, when she went to dirty dancing, she actually was supposed to be Vivian's mom. That very small role, no, no um the lady that her husband played cards and then she ended up sleeping with Patrick Sweet. Yeah. So, and and then the the gal that was gonna play um Marjorie ended up something happened and she backed out. Right. And so she shows up the day, the first day there, and they're like, Okay, you need to go get uh go over to the set, and she's like, What? We haven't even I don't have you know, and then they tell her, Yeah, you're gonna be this role now, and you have lines and everything, and she's like freaking out because she's like, I need days to right prepare myself and and all the things, but she did it.

SPEAKER_02 14:41

She did it, and I mean it's such a classic movie.

SPEAKER_03 14:44

If you guys have never seen Dirty Dancing, then you're missing out because it's such a classic movie. And she is just a classy person, and I think that's that's something that she portrays, and I think that's naturally she's just naturally has class, even though she wasn't raised a lot of money and and all the things. So um, so and her whole life is you know, sometimes plan B ends up being the thing the world remembers you for, so because definitely that movie Dirty Dancing, the Gilmore, the third or the Gilmore Girls was definitely where we all know. We all know her from. Yeah, she was in some other movies also and some sitcoms too. Yeah, and I was like, What? I don't remember her being in there, right?

SPEAKER_02 15:26

So she was also really honest about her relationships, and they weren't always healthy. I don't think until her last husband, the husband that you're talking about that passed away from cancer, I don't think she had a healthy relationship. She didn't have a healthy relationship with her mother, she didn't have a healthy relationship with her dad. Seemed like that she doesn't touch on it a whole lot, but it seemed like her and her brother got along pretty well and and and still do. Um, but relationships when it came to men in her life were just not it. You know, they were never, they were never on the same page at the same time, it seemed like, until her her most recent husband. And so there was a lot of failure in her life when it came to marriages. And again, she'd pivot herself back into her relationship. She had a g a husband that really abused gambling and would spend her money away. And you know, sh again, she was not uber successful to where she was sitting on millions of dollars like we imagine movie stars to be. She was always struggling and she was always working for the next paycheck, and he's just blowing it out the window as fast as she could make it, and cheating on her.

SPEAKER_03 16:37

And and the way she put it, if you can imagine this, so her first apartment was like in the ghetto. It's like a closet, it's so teeny tiny, it's nowhere anyone would want to live unless you had to live, right? And then this man comes into her life and she just had moved up to this nicer apartment that maybe actually had a closet, right? And you weren't just living in the closet, right? And it was in a nicer, little bit nicer neighborhood and all the things, and then here comes this man, and and she actually had an opportunity to um, because he actually lived somewhere else before they got married, and then uh she had gone and I think that was when she was I don't know, she was shooting somewhere on location somewhere, and then he called her and said, Can I uh should I renew my lease or not? And this was the gambling addict cheater. Right. And she was like feeling like, well, I've already m muffed up one marriage, maybe, you know, maybe I need to be more tenacious and stick in there. And and she said, Yeah, sure, you can live with me. And she thought to herself immediately after she said that, I wish I still lived in that tiny, trashy apartment because he wouldn't have wanted to live there. Right, right. Because but so, you know, she had to learn that okay, I did that knowing, oops, shouldn't have done that. And she writed it within just a few months was when she finally was like, mm-mm, this isn't working and we're done. And she stood up for herself. And right, yeah, it's hard to make those those choices, but she didn't let setbacks define who she was, she didn't let her bad relationships define who she was.

SPEAKER_02 18:14

Right, she wasn't letting other people pull her down, and she did have um you she she always like had the fallback, I guess, of um dance slash Broadway. So there was, you know, a small network of people that she could rely on when her relationships went bad or things got her down and she really needed to like get a job, make some money, get herself back up, get her on her feet again. And so it was it was smart of her to realize that she did have some important people in her life that were always gonna be there for her, versus the people that were using her and bringing her down and not building her up. Yeah. Um so um so now we're gonna talk about the differences between Emily Gilmore and Kelly Bishop, because I think she played the role of Emily Gilmore so well that you would think that maybe she's a lot like Emily Gilmore in real life. And actually, she um modeled a lot of the idea of Emily after her grandmother because her grandmother um they were only to refer to her as her first name. They never called her granny, they never called her Nana, they never had any sort of like nice, cuddly relationship with the with their with her grandmother. It was always that they refer to her as her first name and they are prim and proper and they act appropriate in front of her, and that's it. And so she really took that idea of her grandmother and just like amplified it to make Emily Gilmore out of that person, and um she is obviously a far warmer character in real life, right, and easier to talk to. And it's it's fun to I'm an avid Gilmore rewatcher, so I watch it on repeat um pretty regularly, but I think that they're both like strong and tenacious.

SPEAKER_03 20:10

Yes, that's what I was gonna say. That's where I see them the sameness is the strength and the tenac tenacity tenacity and their just ability to just stand up and be who they are. And I will say that she swore in that role and she wasn't really a swearer. She was not a swearer, and she kind of liked that she could swear in that role. It's like getting to be the the the best and the worst of of yourself and and get paid for it.

SPEAKER_02 20:36

Yeah. I I have to talk about one of my favorite lines in Gilmore Girls of hers, um, when she's uh fighting with Richard and they're in the basement, and he says something about having wine before dinner, I think is how it starts. And she says, Well, buy me a boa and fly me to Reno because I am open for business. Oh, he says, only prostitutes have wine before dinner. And she says, buy me a boa and fly me to Reno because I'm open for business. And it was such a great line. And it was fun because her character was supposed to be the prim and proper and the proper wife. She went to she went to university and she got an education so that she could be an educated wife. And her job was to support her husband, and her job was to make sure that the parties were planned, and that you know she managed the house, she managed him in a sense. She was like, And then she felt like she failed at raising her child, so she tried to kind of make up for it with Rory. But I think that she brought so much life to that character who could have been just mean, and you wouldn't have liked her. Mean and in the background, but she she had so many great like um scenes with Lorelei where she really stood up for why her job in the home. was important and that you can't diminish her role because it was still Richard wouldn't be who Richard was right if it wasn't for having um uh Emily in the background. Well and that goes back to our last episode of Women in History that quiet supporter because that's well she wasn't very quiet but she was you know she was helped him become everything that he was and that's what a lot of a lot of women in that time period in that the when she grew up that's the way you were right expected to be the other thing I think is really fun about the Gilmore girls time frame is that Lauren Graham who played Lorelei her mother had passed away before that had ever taken place and she has said recently that Emily really or Kelly Bishop really kind of became her surrogate mother and they really had a great friendship the whole way through and still do. She writes you know in part of the book they do lunches and coffees and get together.

SPEAKER_03 23:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:03

Yeah they're always connected and and then one of the writers not the so they had a different set of writers for the last season for the last season. So Amy Sherman Paladinos who created it wrote the first seasons and um she writes the forward on the book as well and um Amy Sherman Paladino is actually writing a book right now with Lauren Graham in case anyone wants to know so another fun fact and it's gonna be kind of a behind the scenes tell all sort of thing about the time that they did the Gilmore rolls. And anyways in all of that there's been a lot of talk about how important their relationships were with each other. And so it's fun to see like the bickering of Lorelai and Emily on screen when you know that after that scene was over they were really pals and really kind of built each other up and she was she was her mentor and then I'm sure that Lorelai was then Rory's mentor and she well I know she was and she helped guide her a lot that was her first big role.

SPEAKER_03 23:59

Yeah um that's amazing. Yeah yeah it's I just I love that show. I love her character but I and I love her as a human after reading this this book because it is like holy cow you did not have life easy it was not hand you you know you you have to scrape and and just claw your way to to get to where you want to be sometimes and um and she is um definitely an inspiration for for me because you know all along like you're people are always asking you like well when are you retiring? And and you're thinking like you know well everybody okay Social Security starts at 67 so I guess you know you retired at 65 67 whatever but then it's like well why if you're doing what you love to do like she's doing what she loves to do if you've still got the memory and the capacity to act and be on camera like oh my gosh I'm so impressed with with um Hollywood I guess in a sense nowadays because there isn't an expiration date because there are a lot of actors out there that are doing movies and they're in their 80s.

SPEAKER_02 25:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:10

Landman Bobby Thornton is or Billy Bob Thornton is like Sam Elliott and it's Sam Elliott and he's still handsome I don't care what anybody says still handsome he's still handsome.

SPEAKER_02 25:22

But uh the men always look good but there's a lot of a lot more women producers and women directors in Hollywood and so that's giving women more of a non-expiration date roles as well because it used to be that women couldn't have wrinkles well I mean it still is let's say I mean we can't have wrinkles we can't have gray hair we can't have we can't dye our hair we can't not dye our hair we can't you know the Barbie speech if those of you don't know it look up the Barbie speech but we we can't do anything right but when you have more women producers and women directors they're gonna continue to find roles for women and keep putting women of all ages all colors all backgrounds all sizes and shapes into roles so that we continually see a representation of our own self or reflection of ourself on screen. There aren't many Barbie doll sized people anymore. Yeah and I just want to make sure that I'm clear that like I'm not putting Hollywood on a pedestal. I don't think that Hollywood is the people that we should look up to.

SPEAKER_00 26:18

No.

SPEAKER_02 26:18

I think that I'm very careful of the type of people that I want to even try to look up to I felt really compelled to read this book after I saw a um panel discussion with her and Lauren Graham and they talked about the book a little bit when it first came out and I thought you know she actually doesn't sound like somebody who had it handed to her. Yeah. And so those are the gritty kind of stories that I'm more attracted to. I I think when there's like nepotism and things like that, you know I don't really want to hear how you were raised with a silver spoon in your mouth because that's not realistic.

SPEAKER_00 26:55

Right.

SPEAKER_02 26:55

It's not something I can relate to and I can't understand like how to take up that type of story and relate it to my own life unless you kind of actually lived a life.

SPEAKER_03 27:06

And I feel like Hilly Bishop really did live a life. She did she really did she lived it hard and she was a um brutally honest I think yeah with herself as well right and that took a lot of a lot of courage but um I was gonna say something so it must be time to close because the brain is shutting down. Brain's shutting down yeah I had a thought but I didn't want to interrupt you and now the thought.

SPEAKER_02 27:32

Sorry I talked a lot in this episode I'm just really passionate about this book. I'm really passionate about Gilmore girls I think it's a fun outlet I think in all the times that I've watched it maybe every storyline isn't great you know there's not a lot of um they didn't always make the great um boyfriend choices you know and but you can also you know when I talked about myself being an observer of people I think that also when you observe storylines on a show you can also pinpoint like there's something you should not do.

SPEAKER_03 28:04

Exactly you don't put your first boyfriend on a pedestal and think that Dean's gonna be your it forever and et cetera et cetera even though we all wanted him to be right I was going to say because this is what I liked about her too because she's so she's kind she's down to earth. Yeah. So she said that she started getting dowels and so she went in and she's like what is there something I can do and they're like well yeah we could you know kind of do and she's like well maybe I'll do that but she decided she was not going to do anything else. She was going to let it lie where it lied because you know it's that same thing like like we were talking about like if you get rid of these then you're gonna walk around like this and you're not gonna have any facial expression left or you know you get it so tight that all you see is these bones and it just doesn't I don't know it just doesn't look good. Like as you age you should just get a little wrinkles and and your face should fall a little bit and it's it's okay and we need to represent that we should love ourselves at all stages. And I think that she's a good one for that too. Right she's a real person. The real person accepts herself for who she is and and it's a great thing.

SPEAKER_02 29:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:12

So thank you for turning me on to that book.

SPEAKER_02 29:14

And no no retiring no in her future she's still chugging along and doing the next thing and I see that in both of our futures of yeah you know we might I mean I might eventually retire from my nine to five which is also not nine to five in any way shape or form but I will never stop doing all the things that I do.

SPEAKER_03 29:35

Right community stuff and podcast or whatever maybe one day you'll you'll spin off and we'll have this podcast and she'll have a murder murder podcast because she likes murder podcasts. I do so anyway I digress so make sure that you like us on Facebook share us um like and subscribe if you're watching on YouTube download us if you're listening on a podcast right if you want to email us you can do that to beautiful chaos one dot buzzsprout dot com and uh if you have any comments on this book we encourage you to share them with us we'd love to chat with you about what you liked or didn't like about this book.

SPEAKER_02 30:12

But also remember that we're doing a book every quarter. So our next book is called Fat Chance. You can find it on Audible you can find it on Amazon if you would rather read the hard copy but start reading that book now so that you can join the conversation with us in a couple of months when it's time for us to talk about that book and then we'll as the year progresses we'll carry on with the next couple of books that we'll have.

SPEAKER_03 30:35

Right. And I would love to see that people comment like we'll we always we actually record earlier than when these things are posted. So I put out a little thing on uh social media stating hey we're gonna be filming this podcast if you guys have read the book and want to share anything go ahead and share in the comments and we'll share that on air um I think we're also willing to do this as a Zoom call if we had enough participants and if people wanted to jump on and share comments I think that could be a goal that we lean towards too so without further ado thanks for joining us and stay empowered