Heroin Addict to Healer

Drug and alcohol addiction can wreak havoc in a person's life, tearing apart relationships, health, and hope. In this episode, Tyler Gordon CMHC (who is a faithful member of the LDS Church) shares his journey from heroin addiction to becoming a healer, and how God's grace and mercy transformed his life. 

Transcript

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Welcome to Many Mighty Messages. Is there hope for people who are addicted to drugs and alcohol? My guest today is Tyler Gordon, who is a clinical mental health counselor and has been sober for 17 years. This is his story. Well, welcome to many Mighty messages to today, and my, my guest is Tyler Gordon and he and I went to the University of Phoenix together to be clinical mental health counselors, and we graduated in 2018. And yeah, thank you for being on the podcast today. Thanks for having me. Yeah, appreciate the invite. Yeah. Good to see you. Yeah, so good to see you. I don't think we've seen each other since 2018, right? Yeah. Yeah. We've talked but we haven't, yeah, haven't, yeah. Haven't seen each other. So it's cool to connect and, yeah. Yeah. And I was just thinking the other day, it's, that's been seven years. Really? Yeah. I haven't thought about that. I guess that's, yeah. Wow. Lot's happening in seventies, huh? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Okay, so before we start talking, I was going to just tell you a little bit about Tyler. So Tyler Gordon is a clinical mental health counselor who has been practicing since 2018. He has also been in long-term recovery since July 15th, 2008. He grew up on a farm in Spanish Fork, Utah, where his father raised alfalfa, grain corn, potatoes, squash, and pumpkins. Today, their family's legacy continues at Gordo's Fun Farm in Lakeshore, offering camps for kids to learn about farming daisy days for families who have experienced miscarriage or the loss of a child, and fun activities like a corn maze, rollercoaster, and opportunities to interact with farm animals. So what have you been doing for the last seven years? For seven years, geez. So I guess since graduation, we have. Moved to St. George. So living down here in southern Utah, that was in 2019. But just a lot of cool stuff has happened since then. We've got two kids and married, and my wife's a seminary teacher down here in, in southern Utah, and so she, she's having a good time doing that. But just tried to build a private p you know, trying to, when I came down here and worked for a treatment center for a while and that went away, and then I ended up getting a job contracted work with the Children's Justice Center, which has been really cool. Never thought I wanted to work with kids and COVID hit, right. And so a lot happened at that time. And so I went out and found this contractor job, which is cool. And they started this program down here in southern Utah at this time, where they only hired two therapists to go into the schools and work with kids. So we'd pull 'em outta class. Which was really quite unique and super fun. And I fell in love with kids in a way. I saw God's Hand, the spirit, like I, it brings up a little emotion 'cause I watched, I just, I'm thinking of a specific client that I had pulled 'em out of class and he had a lot of abuse. Our kids go through a lot of hard stuff these days and they need people to love 'em. And I play a lot of games and just befriend them and treat 'em like they deserve to be treated. And you just feel the savior's love when you're doing that. And I'm just really grateful for those relationships that I was able to have at that time. And, and then now fast forward a little bit, still contract with them. I don't see very many of their clients, but I just have my own private practice that I've been working on and yeah, called Compass Counseling. And then I still have the, the nonprofit PREA fund. I don't do much with that right now as far as fundraising, but that's been a blessing to my life and that started because of my family, my recovery journey. My dad and mom paid for my treatment. And when I got sober and it finally worked, took after the third rehab, I just thought it's important to try and give back. And so we put on events like Run for Recoveries and stuff like that when I was working at Circle Lodge up in Sundance and um, that's when it started. It was super fun and kind of has evolved into now just trying to provide mental health services for children. So hopefully something at some point that becomes more of a focus of mine. But right now just building private practice and trying to help people get better, and of course that helps us get better in a lot of ways. It's not what it's about, but it has that trickle effect. I don't know if that's, other than that, just trying to have fun, just trying to stay outta the heat. It's hot as heck now, so. Yeah. Yeah. Well you're in Arizona, so I guess I can't complain. Yeah, yeah, it's super hot right now. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So you're doing mostly your private practice and sometimes you work with kids at the school? No, more in school, but just the Justice center. Oh, the Justice Center. They'll refer 'em over now to my private setting. Before I was going into the schools, I wanna say it was like a pilot program, I guess it went well. And now they have a full-time therapist at the Justice Center, and I think they might have more, but they get a grant called the VCA Grant, victims of Child Abuse. And that's where a lot of that started. And man, it, yeah, it was really cool. But again, going to the private practice, they keep referring, but that's, since they've gotten their full-time therapist, I don't get a lot of clients from them anymore, which is sad. But it's also, they're hard clients and they go through a lot and it's, and six year olds, seven years old. I don't know if you like to do that kind of work, but it's super rewarding. But it's a lot of work. Yeah. I mostly work with adults. So in your private practice, do you work mostly with clients that have sub substance use addiction? I would say yeah. Yeah. No, I think just all over the, I get couples and lots of trauma. Substance abuse just happens to be something that people use to deal with their trauma. And so that's been a heck of a blessing 'cause for me to have the experience I had, I think that has made me a person that people can buy into the recovery process and to therapy because I've, you know, I've got my own lived experience, right? I've gone through addiction, heroin, addiction, and yeah, lost a lot. And that's my story. And when they hear that, then I think it makes 'em feel like, Hey, I can talk to this guy. And so, yeah, I would say that substance abuse is, but we all know that it's not about substance abuse, it's not about the drugs and alcohol, it's about what's, that's just part of the solution. We just want, we need to go deeper. What's driving it? That's shame. It's, it's always shame, fear, not feeling loved, feeling hurt. Not knowing how to take care of the feelings that I have from the hurt that I felt and or the things that have happened to me in my life. And so helping people feel. Yeah, they come for substance abuse. I get, and what's cool, I actually get parents that, uh, which remind me of my own parents. Um, but I get parents now who come to me and ask me to help 'em with their children. And what ends up happening is I end up working with them. And that's really the only thing you can do because in addiction we get to have our own choices. And now that was something that helped me in my journey too. I don't know if you wanna get into that, but I Yeah, definitely. I, I was wanting to, um, yeah. Talk about your journey if you'd want to. Sure. Yeah. Where do you want me to start? I, I don't know. At the beginning. I guess let's just go to the beginning. Wherever you wanna start. No. Yeah, yeah. No, I grew up in a great, I had a great childhood. I do like to say this, which is, there's two types of kids. There's kids that grow up with good parents and they tend to be bad kids. And then you have good kids who have bad parents. And I had great parents, faithful parents. Um. And in a lot of ways it's the reason I'm here. It's because of my parents and their faith and I got some cool experience I've had with God and his love through their hard work and diligence to remain faithful in their own testimonies and as I was falling away. And I feel that even to this day. So I have a lot of gratitude from my parents and they're a hard worker. My grandfather had a dairy, my dad bought a, and I think it was 30 or fif 30, 40 acre farm just down the road from, from the dairy that he was raised on. It was great. Four wheelers, cattle, working hard, hauling hay. It was fun times. I love sitting on the tractor and working grounds. I'd listen to Garth Brooks and all the great country music 'cause I'd sit and drive around on the tractor and I feel like my dad had set me up on that. And then I would just go to town and. Anyway, so it was great childhood. I loved baseball and that was one of the parts is in my story is when I went to go try out for the high school team. My brother was really good at ball and, and a Spanish fork has a really competitive baseball team. And there was a lot of good kids that were good players. And so it wasn't like I knew that I was gonna make the team, but I really that I was, I don't know if I had the talent or not, but, 'cause I never gave myself that shot. I kinda had a poor attitude, never really wanted to listen to anybody. Always had, I had this ODD thing going on, which then turns to a personality disorder when we become adults, right? That's kinda what that, at least that's my my opinion. We tend to turn that into personality sort. But I didn't make the team and that's when I decided to, well then who am I? If I'm not gonna be a ball player, then who am I? And I was 16 years old, 15, 16 years old. It's like developmentally, I didn't really have the bandwidth to understand what the heck was going on. Got into girls, got into drinking. Drugging smoke weed, those kind of things. And then you're off to the races. And then also it was back and forth for a while through high school. And then always knew that I wanted to go on a mission, but I didn't really want to go on a mission. I just, I wanted to go on a mission to get the credit for it. Here's that personality disorder part of me where it's like that narcissism where I want to take credit for things I didn't earn and I wanted accolades, but I don't know if I really wanted to put the work in because I didn't understand what it meant to go on a mission. So I cleaned up and I thought about this story the other day and I'll share it. 'cause it's really, I don't know. To me it, it's crazy. Back in the day, I don't know if you remember, you probably do, but we used to have medications sent to us through the mail. Do you remember that? Mm-hmm. Like they used to send medications through the mail. My grandma would get sent her lo tabs to the mail and I'm, so I was working the ground on the tractor and I was the only one at home. And I came in for lunch and I went and got the mail and there was this big huge bottle of Lortabs, like 500. Okay. And I basically, I took him and went back out, worked the ground, came back in with a plan to basically like, Hey mom, I don't know where the pills went. I went and got the mail and now the mail's gone. So I basically told my mom and dad that the pills were, that the pills were stolen. So basically call the cops. So I called the cops and the cops came down and they did their work and you know, took fingerprints and did the investigation. Oh, okay. And I'm working on going a mission, by the way. I think I actually even have my call and take the pills, do our thing. 'cause that's the kind of way it was. I don't think that, I don't, I wasn't addicted in my mind. I wasn't. I think I had an acting out issue. I was looking for something to fill that void inside of me. And that's what I was really seeking. 'cause it's some type of an adventure. But I didn't have much insight and. People around me to hold me accountable. My parents were, are great, but they were both working and they work really hard and, but so I had a lot of leeway to do whatever the heck I wanted and got into some trouble. So anyways, fast forward a little bit. Mission call. I have my farewell that night. We're all at dinner, right? And have the family, all the farewells for the church of Jesus Christ. Letter Saints. When people go on a mission and the whole family comes over, well, they come and watch you give your speech, and then they come to the house and they eat dinner. And so we're having dinner and the phone rings and it's the cop, it's a cop, it's a DEA, and he's like, Hey Tyler, I need you to come up to the station and I need to talk to you. And I'm like, all right, this is weird. Not even thinking that I'm getting into this is kinda the way my brain works. I always thought I was like a step ahead of everybody, but I wasn't. And got up there and he basically says, Hey, we we're looking at this case, we're seeing what's going on. He basically just calls me out and says, I think you took him. And I looked him in the face, in the eyes for an hour and I says, go do your darn job. Get outta my face. I didn't do it. I was just trying to lie. And like the movies, they broke me down and like, I just gave up the ghost, I guess I just said, yeah, it was me and, and called my parents up who were hosting my farewell party. Oh my gosh. Mind you, they're coming up to the da. I'm sure people are like, why are you gonna the police station? Oh, we don't know. We'll, just, I can't even imagine what that was like. I just, I, we've never talked about it because that's kinda the family that we come from. Don't talk, don't trust, don't fill. Let's just go to work, work hard and don't worry about it. And that's what actually even happened is mom and dad came up and you know, this is a time when no one knew. I'm sure they were scared, I'm sure they were just trying to do the best they could with the information they had at the time. And so they came in and all of us are sitting around with this DEA officer, me and my mom and dad and him. Basically said, this is what I did. And I'm sure there's, I mean, there's a lot of shame, of course, guilt. And the cop said, you're going on a mission. You've got your call. You can go on a mission and if you come home early, I'm gonna charge you. And I was like, okay, like I'm gonna go. And so he left the office. And me and my mom and dad, I think we had a prayer. And that's one good thing. My dad always, dad and mom always involved prayer. It was always just, let's turn to the Lord and see where we can get some guidance. And maybe it was more of just, we need some help. 'cause it's pretty scary, I'm sure in that moment. For me, it's just, crap. I got caught. You know? At that moment I'm like, crap. But for them, I'm sure it was a lot different. And they have their story to tell, of course. But from my perspective, it was like, crap, can I just get outta this situation? And my dad was like, do you want to go on your mission still? And I said, yes. And he says, this is where it sits. We leave it. You go and just go to work, you know? And don't look back and. I wished I could have done that. I went on my mission and, and I, and I went for 14 months. So this is what I hope I don't get in trouble here 'cause, um, statute of limitations probably ran out by then, but there was no charges filed. 'cause it was my, but I don't even know how that all works. I'm just, I came home early because on my mission I was still seeking again that, that void to be filled with something. And so I, I drove a car outta the mission boundaries. I had hooked up a toggle switch, which, you know, on the mission, some of the elders were doing that to not track the miles. 'cause you had to track too many miles. And I was doing really good. I think I was doing good. I was starting to catch a vision. 'cause my mission president told me, just gave me an opportunity to start training someone. So now I have the opportunity to do that, which was cool to leadership, right? Mm-hmm. So I thought, okay, here, my chance to try and prove something. We worked really hard. I, it's a great. A great time. Elder Saunders, he's a, he's the only one that I really have ever had any correspondence with since my mission. But I decided at that time to confess right to, and this is also part of the story where it's like the atonement at the time for me was really scary. And I think even it is for now for people is that the atonement shouldn't be scary. It shouldn't be this like iron fist that if you did something we're gonna take everything away from you. I hate that. I hate it. And I know that's created sometimes in our faith with the church. And I think it's a lack of understanding, the lack of knowing how to manage people. And it's all out of, I think, good faith that sometimes it can really hurt people. You know, we deal with people who have been disenfranchised from the church and love working with those clients. Love working with people who, who have faith issues or faith crisis or angry. 'cause we've all been angry and we all have people that hurt us. And anyways, so I told, and the Mr. President sent me home and. It's interesting. The state president at the time told me, he says he, before I left on mission, he told me, he said, I have a, I have a friend who came home early for his mission and he ended up committing suicide. And I remembered that story. And then when I came home, he was like, we're not gonna let you go back. You just need to move on. Go get married, go get out with your life. And I told him, I said, remember when you told me that story? I was actually really bugged, and I don't won't say the name, but I, I just was really bothered that he wouldn't let me go back because I think I was changing at that time, but it wasn't in the cards. I'm not mad at anybody. I'm not holding onto any of that stuff. I just, I think I could have got, I think I could have went back and done, finished my mission. I went to Montana by the way, so I didn't even, I drove a car home and then back and I didn't get in trouble. Nobody, like companion, never told on me. I think I threatened him and he didn't do anything and, and then I told, when I was training this kid, what did you tell your companion? I told the state president. I told the president. I had drove a car outta the mission boundary. I confessed to things that I was doing on my mission. Sorry, I didn't expect that very good. But I was acting out and doing things. I think we were hanging out with girls. We were, we had cable, and I don't, it's embarrassing. These are things that I was taking to my grave with me that was haunting me, and I didn't realize that, but just really embarrassing things that, uh, just not proud to do, but that's who I was. I was acting a fool. And everyone does stuff like that, Tyler, everyone. Well, I figured that out now, but at the time, I thought I was the most wicked and I was gonna burn. And I, how can you be forgiven when you're on a mission and you take medication outta someone's cabinet or you do stuff that it's just really, it's just really humiliating. Now you think about it, but at the time, yes, that's the state of mind I was in. And the thing about regret is I like to go back in the past and I help cl try and help clients think about this. But when we go back into the past and try and regret what we did, it's like we're trying to change the past. The thing is the waste of time, we can't change the past. It's happen. What's happened has happened. And so, and it's a false assumption in our brain. It tricks us to think that if we could go back, that we would make a better decision. And the truth is, you don't know. If you would've made a different decision, it could be worse, it might be better, but that's who I was at that time, through the progression of where I'm learning to become the man than I I am today, or who I'm trying to evolve in, even more so in my life. And, and so I'm really grateful for these experiences, but at the time it was like, oh my gosh, my world is over and I'm coming home from my mission, and they sent me home. And now that is really hard. Oh yeah. That's really hard. It's, uh, happens a lot and I It does. Yeah. I've worked with people that that has happened. And they're carrying that around even into their thirties. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And they're mad at themselves, and it really does. I don't know about how you and your therapy you, but it really comes down to the responsibility that you take for the feelings that you have. If I have negative feelings about my mission, it always comes back to me and how I was acting. Mm-hmm. I wanna blame the people for, and they were loving me, trying to help me get better, but it seems like they were like taking things away from me. But they were just like, look dude, it's run its course, it's time to move on. And that's, I think, the truth. And that's the most important thing is to try and get to the truth. But I didn't know the truth back then. And so anyways, my trajectory went on to, since abuse. I had a couple knee surgeries from playing softball and getting hurt from basketball. Things like, you know, and then the pills were still being handed out. Is that time that you can look at the, is this after your mission? This is after my mission. We're struggling. Yeah. Yeah. I was on my mission when, um, nine 11 happened. So 2001, I remember that happening. And waking up to the, my, my companion would call the phone and he would get the update of the weather and how the day was gonna go. He just, I guess it was like a 7 1 1 number or something, like a 4 1 1 information number. And he'd call it every morning. And then it said, Hey, the twin Towers have been hit and started freaking out and. But, and then after that, and I came home probably shortly, maybe six months after that, I came home. Mm-hmm. So it was 2001, 2002. And came home, started to cadaver into the pills, drinking again. And didn't really know what I was gonna do. But my brother had bought a pizza store, pier 49 in Springville, and he had opened another one in Spanish Fork and he wanted to sell a Springville one. And so I asked my dad and he asked me, oh, you wanna buy this? This could be fun, this could be good. It's a good opportunity. And I didn't know this at the time and my dad didn't wanna do it. He told me that he didn't wanna do it, but he said, how could I do it for my one son? And I can't do it for him. And I think my bishop even told my dad not to do it, but, but my dad, that's just, he's a good man. He, and he's not trying to hold onto stuff. He knows that he's capable of going and making more money or doing more. He is not ho. He knows he can't take any of it with him. And I think he just got a really healthy perspective and it was his, did it give you some hope? Yeah. But at that time I would say it wasn't hope. It was more like, great. Oh cool. I can now look like I have my crap together so I can keep doing what I wanna do. Just, oh, you were an active addiction? Oh yeah, I was, it was just starting to go, so I wasn't thinking about him. I wasn't thinking about anybody but Tyler, I was a selfish, self-centered person and that's been my, my, my problem. It's so funny, Tyler, because I know you for who you are now, and I just think you are so amazing, such a good guy. So I don't think of you like this through all the things that you've gone through. So I really appreciate that. And it brings up emotion. 'cause it, I guess that's part of the plan. That's why I hope that when you're doing something like this where you're talking to a friend and they're recording it to put it outta the world, which is crazy to me. It's not like I'm looking to do that. But if it does help somebody to know that people can change. We read it in the scriptures all the time. We talk about it in conference all the time. Exactly. And, and, but I thought I was disqualified. That's the difference. And I don't know if you've ever felt that way in your own life, which I'm sure you have 'cause you're going through similar experiences, just different years and different times and different experiences. But I think that's a unique, not a unique, that's a very global, a human deal is that we all go through this kind of experience of who am I and where am I going and what am I doing? And, but we also have a opportunity to change. And so I appreciate that. I really do. I, it means a lot when I, I do hear people say, sometimes they'll go, look, I don't see you as a guy that did heroin and I used to shoot of heroin. And I think that shocks people sometimes. It's, it really is shocking. It is. It's shocking to hear. I know that you have struggled with substance abuse. I knew that you. I had all these problems, but I didn't know a lot of the details. But I just see you now helping people. What a blessing you are to people. The a place that I work where I work right now, um, there, there are several people that used to be addicted to drugs and they are now helping others through that journey, and I just think that's so wonderful and I, I know that's God's plan. Same with me with therapy. I've been through certain things and so I can now help my clients and yes, I can help people. Yes. And how amazing. You're a, an amazing inspiration I'm sure for lots of people hope that struggled and I guess the, I appreciate that. I think the main thing is too, is that as. In recovery with people. I think the deal is that when you get this deal, you, part of it is giving away service is a big part. And as you try and share your story, your experience, strength and hope, which is what Alcoholics Anonymous has taught me, and the 12 step programs in the church, you gotta share it with people, you gotta talk about it, you gotta give it away in order to keep it. And so as I talk about it, I end up getting to keep what I have and then I remember the stories. So as I talk to you now, I'm thinking about a lot of different stories and yeah, it's just, yeah, and it's good. And I don't know if you want me to keep going with the pizza store and then just keep, I don't know what you Yeah. Would you please? I interrupted. There you go. No, you didn't interrupt anything. It was, I just, I was just, my thoughts came back to it and I'm, you know, at this pizza store, I mean, there's still a lot, a lot of pain and a lot of hurt still coming, but there's still the good parts of, I want to get away from all bad to, because there's so much hope and love within that. That part of my story, I believe, where God was really involved. But the Pizza Store ended up, it got worse. I ended. Losing it. My father asked me to step away from the business because he, he worked full-time and had the farm too, so he didn't plan on doing any of this, but he had to step in because I continued to take checks from the store and cash them at these payday places, and I'd be going and getting my drugs and then he'd go and pay 'em off and then he'd just do this. He went into so much money, it was just, yeah, so much of his own personal stuff, and I'm sure, you know, he's pulling out his hair. I just, he's never really expressed what that did for him, and I don't know, maybe it's too bad that he doesn't want to share that because I'm sure it was really hard for him, but he had a lot of love and support too. But I'd love to know that. To be honest, I say that here. 'cause I, I would love to know what that did and how that, how hard that was. Because as hard as that would be to fill that, that's, that's what we have to do is the thing that we don't wanna look at. That's the hardest is where we find. The richness. That's where we, we find the gold. And you're wanting to talk to your dad and find out how he's felt all that time. Sure. Why not? I've barely talked to my dad in a lot of ways. My dad's a quiet man. He's a hardworking guy, and he's just got that generational kind of way about him where he just, you know, just, we don't need to talk about the hard things. We just move forward. Let's just go. And I love you and you gotta appreciate that. I really do. And I think it's super healthy, but in our world we need to face it. And in order to heal it, we have to feel it. And the thing is, I hurt a lot of people and I didn't know I was hurting people. I was just doing what I wanted to do. And you don't think about other people like that, but it's not a nefarious thing. Like I'm like, oh, hey, today I'm gonna really screw over my brother or whoever. That's not what, that's, honestly, that's my truth. I know it doesn't seem that way, but I was just thinking. This is fun. I'm gonna go out and party and have a good time. So I ended up losing my pizza store. I ended up, so the story that my, my dad, so it got so bad with the money part that he called the cop. He tried to get advice, he tried to have people come and help me. I wasn't listening. I would lie by a scent, which I now understand is tell people what they want to hear without planning on falling through with it. Well, there's three types of lying. Lying by omission, lying by commission, and lying by as scent. And I would lie by as scent and omission too. I'd give 'em a little bit of details, but just enough enough to get 'em off my back. And yeah, I was a liar. One morning I woke up, I was staying at their house and I went to go. So I woke up 'cause I heard someone come to the door and I had my drugs and my needles in my sock that I woke up. So I had enough drugs to go throughout my day and went to go downstairs in the basement to go down to the bathroom and there's a door before to go to the bathroom or to go to the bedroom. And my sister was living there and it was locked. I found out later the reason she locked that is 'cause she was scared that I was gonna come in and do something, hurt her or take some, probably take her stuff because I was stealing stuff. So I didn't know that at the time, but you know, so I locked, locked of doors locked. And so I'm walking up the stairs 'cause we have a split level. I walk up the stairs and there's a sheriff standing right there. And my dad and I just look at 'em like it's a normal morning. I say, Hey, good morning. And I walk up to the bathroom, I lock the door and I start getting things ready to get high and boom, boom, he knocks on the door and he goes, get out. And I says, no, I'm going to the bathroom. Leave me alone. And I'm starting to kinda like crap, what do I do here? So I take my needles and I try and hide him, which wouldn't have take two seconds, but he'd have found him. And then I had my heroin and I was like, I can swallow this. And my ego part of my brain says, no, he's not here for me. He just wants to talk. So I put it in my belt loop and I walked out and he comes into my room and he looks inside my room and he is like, what are you doing? What says, what do you mean? He says, are you on drugs? And I didn't really wanna fight. I was like, yeah. I figured he already knew. He's like, I look around your room. I see scriptures over here. 'cause this is how I used to do things. I used to spiritualize, which is a defense mechanism to keep people off your back. Virtualization, my scriptures, pictures of Christ. I had all this LDS church stuff around me to convince the people that I was doing better than I was when inside I was just burning it down. And I said, yeah. He says, where's that? And I pulled it outta my belt loop and I handed it to him and I says, you're not gonna charge me with that. And he looks at me and goes, the hell I'm not. And he charged me seven third degree felonies, theft by deception, forgery times five, and possession of a controlled substance. And I'm looking at seven third degree felonies and that, and I can still picture being handcuffed in front of my mom and dad and being let out to the cop car from our house, which I know is a hard thing for them to probably remember. And if they, 'cause I still see their faces. And as lost as I was, that was something that burned in my brain and I'm glad it did because I'm, it feeds me today in a way that just, I don't want to go back to that. That was, that's hell. People that love you and want you to be happy and better and you're, I just think about what I did to get them to that point because that is not what they wanted to do. I know that my dad tried everything he could to not involve the law and what else do you do? That was interesting because I worked with drug court clients and at first, when I would assign them treatment, I would think I would maybe not make it as hard, difficult as I could, but I realized that I should give them this opportunity to think about their life, to think, to do the groups, to do the uas, to think about why they're doing this. This is their chance to get better. Yeah, so going to jail and sobering up, that is actually a good thing. Yes. Wait, you dunno that at a time? So I'm in jail. Well, I'll tell you that it's another funny story. I maybe none of my stories are funny, but I think they're funny. It's kind of part of my personality. I think everything's funny, but it's not sometimes that funny. But I'm in jail and I have 200 or $300 cash bail only for my first time going into jail. And I'm kicking, by the way, which means I'm withdrawing from heroin. So I'm like, I haven't slept, I'm desperate. I'm calling everybody. My dad had called all my friends, even the good ones because I had good friends that just had to separate themselves from me. And I'd call 'em and they'd say, your dad told me not to. And they'd hang up or they'd be like, sorry. And I called the pizza store even and I'd call my employees who didn't really know what was going on. 'cause I know that no one's probably talking about it. So I'm like, get the money outta the till, come get me out. And my dad would pick up the phone and he'd say, don't call back Tyler. And he'd hang up and I'm like, crap. No. So he, so I had one last play I thought. So I called my mom and I said, mom. They're gonna pull one of my front teeth. And she, I think my mom, well my mom paid a lot of money for all of our kids' teeth. And, but my mom, she was, I think she would've been really upset. I really thought that if they were gonna pull my tooth, she'd come get me outta jail. Okay. So I told her this. I said, mom, they're gonna do this on my tooth and this is why. And she sits there and she paused, which seemed like forever. And she goes, have him pull it. And I was like, crap, dang it. My last plate, I couldn't get out. So you're stuck. I'm stuck. So, but the thing they do let you out. Eventually it does happen. You get outta jail and you get to go back to life. And it wasn't but seconds when I got home and I knew exactly where my drugs were, and I went right into my car and I started again after all that praying in jail. God just let me out and I promise. I will not do it again. And then I'm like, just kidding. It was like, what the heck? So I, I was back off. So I'm in drug court now, by the way, with the seven 30 degree felony. So I'm glad you brought up drug court 'cause it's a wonderful program. And the judge at the time happened to be my uncle's home teaching partner. I went to jail five different times and during, one of the times I was there for like 30 days over Christmas. And I think my dad told me he tried to call the judge and ask him if it was okay to get me outta jail. 'cause you, it's good old boy can, maybe we can make a phone call here. And the judge, first thing he said is he's like, I can't talk to you. And he hung up on my dad. So that wasn't happening. So I spent Christmas and Thanksgiving, you know, and that was bad when you're getting little gunny sacks from the church would come in and they were my family. So you had my Uncle Brent, you had my, one of my good friend's dad. And they're shaking your hand and you're in your jumpsuit and they're giving you a little orange with a little piece of chocolate and you're going like, you're really grateful for that stuff because it's like. You haven't eaten some of that stuff in a while, but I was, that was like a march to like embarrassing and embarrassing. You were in a small town, you knew everyone. Lots of family we knew. Yeah. Yeah. So everyone knew that you were struggling. Yeah, I, yeah. Maybe. I don't know how much they knew I was struggling. Probably. That's the thing about addiction is you think no one knows. And even as I hear you say that and say that, I'm like, no, no one knew. But everybody knew probably, and I don't think they really cared about me necessarily, but it's drama and I, I'm just, yeah, we had a good name. My dad worked really hard. And that's one thing is reputation is a big deal, and rightfully it is. And I, I hope that that's another part of feeding what I'm doing today is I want to represent our family in a way that is what a Gordon would do, because they're good people. I come from great family and I, yeah, I wanna honor that, but I don't know, i's none of my business if it's doing good or not. I'll know. I'll know someday. And all I know is that Heavenly Fathers brought me this far. 'cause it's nothing short of a miracle. 'cause it's not that I'm a smart guy, it's not that I have anything figured out. I just know that there's a purpose now and I've been given too much and it's just time to go and work. And I'm just really grateful. That's what the practice is about. It's what I'm trying to do. And well, I, I know your family's proud of you and heavenly father. Yeah. It's just amazing. Not a lot of people or I, you tell me, do a lot of people recover and stay in full recovery? Yes. But it looks different for everybody. No. And when people relapse 'cause people say, oh man, he went and used drugs again. He's done. But there's difference between a relapse, a full on relapse and a lapse. And the difference is full on relapse is, I don't care. And I don't care about anything else anymore. I'm just gonna go full bore again. And the lapse is where I messed up and now I'm gonna jump back into recovery and people. Can become really discouraged or even treatment centers or people that are in the helping business can make people feel, no, they can't make people feel anything because we choose to feel what we feel. Now there's a lot of judgment on if people relapse. Right? Someone relapses. Yeah. Okay, so what are you gonna do? You drink, you already drank a million times before, so this is one time, get back on the horse, get going. Yeah, sure. You have to start your time over. What's the big deal? Start working on the shame, the guilt, the fear, whatever it is that's pushing you to want to go get high. 'cause it's not about getting high, but people are convinced that that's what it is. Just let me do what I wanna do, or I have to do this to feel better. And in a way, your brain just tricks you that's it's happening. What was it? What was it for you? What was it that drove your addiction? A lot started with just wanting to be a part of and to have fun, and it evolved into shame and guilt. When I got sound for my mission, when I looked at. I compared myself to other people. And as I'm looking at siblings and family members and if they're doing well or they're able to take care of families and have a FA family, those are the kind of things that I compare myself and then I'd be like, look, that's not for me, and I can't do that. And I always just felt like less than, you know, I have poor self-esteem and I have to work on that all the time. I have low confidence in myself and my abilities, but I can act like, again, that narcissism part of me where it's extrovert. I'm an extrovert, but I recharge my batteries like an introvert. So I, I wanna be alone, but extroverted. I can go get what I want when I need it. And if I'm a narcissist or I have part of narcissism in me, then I take credit for things that I didn't earn and I make it seem like I did something. And so I gotta be really careful of all that, right? That's still very present in my life and it's always just waiting to show up. Isn't it interesting as we get, as I've gotten older, I know what my weaknesses are. I know what I have to watch out for, and. You make mistakes, you learn what your weaknesses are, you watch out for them, but they're always just sitting there, aren't they? I picture them sitting there on a chair in the back of my head. I know that they're there, but I try not to. Uh, good. Some people don't even know that they're there, and that's the narcissistic trait. So I'm glad to hear know that there's things there that you have to watch out for. 'cause if you don't know the dragons, then you don't know what you're fighting. And some people are in such deep denial. I've listened to a lot of Jordan Peterson, that he's an amazing clinical psychologist from Canada and love his stuff. And he, he introduced this book. There's no such thing as a dragon. And I use this with every single client that comes in because it's about denial. It's about a dragon that keeps growing and the mom's like, no, there's not a dragon. And it's such a cool example of people come, some people get it and some people don't. But that also helps me gauge where people are at when you read a story like that and how much they understand it. But kids, even kids, they get it. They understand it, but it's such a beautiful book. So simple. We all have dragons in our lives, and if we're not addressing the dragons, then it's getting bigger. The problem's getting bigger and you think that you're doing better, but that's when you realize that you are, you think that a whole town that knows you and has a good name don't know that you're doing what you're doing. That's like what you said earlier. No, they know. Like when you, when the police, when the cops were at your house and your parents were there and you were in the bathroom with the drugs, right? Yeah. You're, you just assume that you can get away with it or that no one knows where it's obvious to everyone else what's going on. So Yeah, you had a, your dragon was big. You had a Oh yeah. Oh, I'd let it get big. Yeah. And my family too, that's also part of their responsibility too, is that there was a lot of denial. My mom was my biggest advocate. Someone would come and tell my mom, Hey, Tyler is not doing good. He's not doing well. And No, shut up. That's my boy. He's fine. Or whatever. If you love our codependent moms, they really believe that they're doing the right thing. And you can't fault them necessarily for that. It gets bad, and I hate that my mom feels guilty for the things that I did. 'cause I think she does. And the truth is, I made my choices, right? It's nobody's fault but mine. But you know, that dragon does get bigger in other people, even in her life. And if she's in denial or my dad or my anybody, then it'll get bigger in their life too. So that's where good friends and mentors and bishops, I hope that bishops will be like, look, I love you right now, but it's not okay what you're doing, and I don't think you're headed on the right direction. So I think that it's time for you to stop taking the sacrament. I think that's more the approach. Look at your behavior. You tell me one thing with your words and your behavior's not lining up. Cognitive dissonance, two conflicting thoughts at the same time. And then you got ambivalence where you're waffling. Yeah, I want to get sober and then I want to be part of the gospel and I wanna be heavenly. Okay. So I'm waffling between both decisions. Those are things that I didn't know at the time. I wished I had that good of insight. And some people I think do get that. But I needed to learn that the hard way. Mm-hmm. And in drug court, I went back to jail five times. I did a total of six months and had an order to show cause with seven third degree felony. So they were gonna kick me out and they said, I'll give you one more chance. And they did give me a chance because I wrote 'em a letter and I pleaded with the judge and he said, we'll give you one more shot. But here's the thing, we're not paying for it anymore. 'cause the first two rehabs were paid by taxpayer dollars. And the last one says, you need to figure it out. And I'm like, I don't have any money. I can barely string anything. I can barely string a thought together, let alone bring together some money to get into rehab. Of course, my dad and mom, we found a place and. What a wonderful experience. And part of that story is that I went to this place and what a blessing it was to walk in and the time people were hugging me and telling me they love me and welcome home and, and I just didn't, I had a lot of shame and guilt. So the next morning I woke up and, well, lemme tell you this before. So when we were sitting there, my dad was sitting at the table, the owner of the treatment center was here, and my dad was sitting there and I was back on the couch in the back, just like waiting for him to fill out the paperwork and do the stuff. And my dad was $18,000. And my dad turned to me and said, you, you done, are you done? And I think that was his way of saying, dude, I have exhausted all my resources. I can't do this anymore, dude. I don't have any money to give. So he told the guy, he said, I got two checks, cash this one, and then wait a month and cash the other one. And the guy said, okay. And I was like, yeah, awesome. I mean, I'm just outta jail who isn't happy to get outta jail. So the next morning I woke up and I'm in group with. 15 other dudes and they're all laughing and having fun and loving on each other. That's, or whatever. I was just really not willing to feel the love. I got a story for that too, if I can remember, but from the temple. But they're feeling all this love and I just, it comes around to me to check in and I'm like, I gotta get outta here. I was crying. I was, I was the crier. I still do cry a lot, but today they're tears of happiness and gratitude and, but I had so much shame built up. I was just crying. I said, I gotta go. I gotta, you gotta give my dad his money back. You've got, I'll go back to jail. I'll take my charges. And I went into the treatment center owner's office and he sat me down and he said some real colorful words to me and a lot of different things that probably can't repeat on a nice podcast like this, but he basically said, it's none of your business. What your dad does with his money, your business is to get your butt back in that room and talk to those guys about what's going on with your life and take the blessing that your dad has given you to figure this out. And. Were there too many feelings in that room too? Was it too open? Too many emotions? It was, it was so many emotions and I think there's so many people that are so hurt. There's so much going on in a group of 15 people in a rehab that's a 60 day inpatient rehab. Oh, you run groups and you do this stuff. It's, it's a lot. I, I'm a, I feel deeply, I'm an empath, I guess is what people say. Whatever that means. Like I feel deeply, I'm compassionate. I'm a therapist, right? So I feel deeply and, but I also wanna be a tough guy and act like I don't, you know? So you didn't want to let your feelings out. You didn't want, you could tell that this was a group of close people and that you might have to like really think about your emotions and explore. Is that why you didn't wanna Well, I think so. I think that's, yeah, you're probably Exactly. I mean, I didn't think about any of that at the time. I just know it just felt uncomfy and I just had to get out. And my thing is run. I always ran. I always just tried to get outta the situation and then just not deal with it and it'll just go away. It never works out, right. So I ended up. Staying and it was the best thing I ever did. It was the best thing I ever did, and that's where everything changed. This is where my life changed because I watched, I got my journals and I can go back and read these things and I did the other day and I, I just sat after reading them and I sobbed because I went from a victim. Why is this happening to me? God, why two? I have a brother that came in today and I look forward to this guy coming in, but I can totally see how he struggles the way that I struggle. And I started to shift. I started to become a new creature, like the Book of Mormon talks about like the scriptures tell us, and I didn't know necessarily that at the time, but as I've done my work and studied that, that's what was happening is I was turning into somebody different and I loved the progression from when I first started at my first rehab. I kept this little journal, which by the way had God grant me the serenity to accept things I cannot change, the courage to change things I can and the wisdom to know the difference. It had that on the front of the cover and I never bought that. I don't know where this book came from, but it showed up in, in the basement of my parents' home and I just used that. And so I kept a log from, from Foothill Spanish Fork all the way until my final rehab and when I was leaving. And when you see it, you see, you can read victim to worrying about other people and turning into a person that just love. I finally started to catch the vision of Brotherly love and how much people, how much I need to care about other people and how much I need to care about myself and all that good stuff. And that was the first time I've ever experienced that. Even in my, my own, I think a million situation, like my brothers and my brothers were hard dudes. You know, they were the coolest guys in the whole wide world, but they had, they wanted nothing to do with me. And I always thought that was something wrong with me. I hate that. I hate that. 'cause, yeah, all I wanted to be was a part and I didn't even still think that's a part of my life and I hate it. It's all good. Working. Are you, are you saying when you were young you didn't feel like you were a part of your like connected with your brothers? Never. Never connected, but not really, you know, I mean, I always wanted to be around, but I always was teased a lot. The funny story that they liked to laugh about and it is funny actually, they tied me to Poles, shot me with BB guns. They would put me in front of the TV and turn on Freddie Krueger and tie me down. And I hated Freddie Krueger. He was a mean dude. Yeah. My brother a good, your youngest brother? I was the youngest boy and then I had a little sister and there was three older brothers and super successful. Good man. Now that as I talk about this, it's kinda like I better just, 'cause if they do listen to it, I just wanted to know. I don't know if they'll listen to it. Probably not. But it's all good. They're good men and we just don't know what we don't know. You know what I mean? Yeah. Your kids. Yeah. And back then in the eighties, how cool is the eighties? You know what I mean? It's so cool. Yeah. Mc hammer. Yeah. Anyways, it was great, but yeah. Got outta treatment, went to sober living. That was a blessing. The bishop paid for my first couple months, and then I got a job at Walmart when I was going to get a job at Walmart, like I'd been praying for a job. I left the sober living and the spirit said, pull into Walmart. And I was like, no, not going Walmart. And immediately the spirit says, you've been doing what you want to do forever. Do what I want you to do. And I was like, okay. I pulled in. They literally hired me like the next day and people had been waiting for six or eight months to get hired on there. It was really quite crazy. And it was, um, eight 15 an hour. Walmart 45, 9. I worked at Walmart for, yeah, 12 years. Okay. Yeah. Walmart's a great job. It was a great gig, right? But again, my mind was like, I'm gonna, I thought that because I owned a pizza store, that I had some talents, which when people give you stuff and you didn't earn it, you don't have anything. You know what I mean? You have to earn what you. That's part of what we do is trying to help people realize that you're not entitled to anything, dude. You're not special. You earn it. And as I was scrubbing the floors one night at Walmart in the dairy, my friends from the sober living would come in and they'd look down at me and I'm scrubbing the floors and I'd look at 'em in their nice clothes and I'd be like, oh my gosh. And then I just kept going. But I was there and I learned a lot. I learned a lot about it. You were humble. I was humble. Yeah. I want, I was better than going back and going to jail. And those toilets that you have to sit on where people can just walk by and that's humiliating. So you, and there's a reason for it. 'cause they don't want you to come back. But people don't get it sometimes. And I'm grateful that the spirit told me that fifth time when I got sent to jail because I didn't share that part. 'cause there's just so much. We could go on for a while, but I wanna get the good stuff. But in that fifth time I realized something. Because for a long time I realized that I thought that I was not those guys in the jail cell with me. And for the first time when I was looking around, and this is the spirit, this is why now Elder Holland talks about spirit. Even in the depths of hell, the spirit can be with you and teach you and guide you. It spoke to me and says, you're those guys. You're just like them. And I got it. And I was scared. I was scared. And I didn't want to be that. I didn't want my life to be that way. And so I did all that I could and I went in the shower. It was the only place you could have peace and quiet. And I said a prayer, and I think I used some colorful words. I don't think God really cares as long as you call on him, he doesn't care what you call him, but I just said, you gotta help me. If not, I'm gonna die and I'll do it. And I meant it. And he has showed the way. I can't deny how far he's brought me, but I'm really grateful for that. So yeah, fast forward, sober living, Walmart, good job. Went to, so all the guys at Sober Living, not all of 'em, but a few of them came up and said, Hey, we're gonna go sell security systems in Ohio and we're going to, we're all gonna go out and be on the team and we want you to come. And I'm like, sweet. Sounds good. So I put in my time at Walmart and I thought, I'm gonna go out and make some good money. They're promising that we're gonna go sell security systems, will everybody be except for me? Which actually makes me happy because I actually am a guy. There's one thing about me, I do follow through with my word. You asked me to do something and I tell you that I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna do it mainly at first, because I didn't want to be embarrassed by telling you something. And then for you to be able to say later, I told you to do something, you didn't do it. I don't know, I just don't like that feeling. And so I was like, okay, I'll go. And so I ended up still going. Everybody's, a lot of people were like, Hey, you can, you're gonna relapse. And the only person that I had talked to about going and doing that was my sponsor. And at the time. Robbie's his name. He said, you can do anything you wanna do, Tyler. You can work in a bar if you want to. As long as you trust God, clean house and help others. You can go anywhere and be around anybody. You don't need to be in fear of anything, dude. And it was like, you're right, I can do this. But I was always looking for an excuse, right? To be a Vic. Oh, I didn't. I wasn't gonna go, well, I go out to Ohio and I'm alone right by myself doing this thing. And the very first day I get out there, I get mugged. And we're in downtown Ohio, Cleveland, we're on these streets. I had no idea that this is what the world was like outside of Utah. We live in a great place. I had 125 bucks on my little Walmart card. They put your checks on. So that's all I had. And I had a cell phone and my id, they took it all right, put a gun up to her chest, and it was scary. I've never been violated like that, never had anything like that. But the homes looked like Katrina, hurricane Katrina kid gone through these. This was poverty. Like I was like. I just had no, I was so naive. And so why not take these two white guys that have been spending all day out here, up and down our street? They were probably survival at the fittest. So I think I know what happened, but I don't hold any ill will against that person. 'cause I guess I know desperation too. Maybe they're desperate. 'cause I didn't, I I would've probably gave it to 'em. Good heck, it just felt so sad to be in a situation like that. But the crazy thing is, after that, I came down because I was super scared. A lot of fear came up. But I went to the cop station after to file a report and he looked at me and he says, where were you at? And I said, 98 in Superior. And he's like, you're lying. And I said, no, I'm not lying. He's like, you say you got mugged and he took your stuff. And I said, yeah, you gotta go find him. You gotta go like, get him. He's like, it's gone, dude. You're not gonna find anything. And I've never, in the 25 years of being here, ever watched anybody walk outta that place without getting the crap kicked out of them or shot and killed. I don't believe you is what he said. I was like. I don't know what to tell you. 'cause I don't have my, I don't have my wallet and I don't have my ID and I can't fly home. I can't do anything. And anyways, I think God angels must have been watching over there. A hundred percent. A hundred percent. No, there's, there's no doubt about this. 'cause again, being in Ohio, another blessing that I'll share as fast as I can here in Ohio, Kirtland was like half hour, 45 minutes away. Okay. So went and did that. That's where I left tobacco in the New K Whitney store. After having that experience there, like I went to Kirtland Temple and I was like, I'm gonna have this big spiritual experience. It's gonna be great. Felt nothing. I was like, this feels empty and hollow. That was before the church has now bought it, right? But right. And so I hope that probably will change. But then I drove over to the New K Whitney store and as soon as we drove onto the property, I had this overwhelming feeling that just covered my body. It was like, this is home, dude. This is where you need to be. And I was like. I was eating it up. And so I had a great day out there and visiting some of those sites and that was the last time I ever picked up tobacco. I left it just like those men, when he gave that commandment, they got up and they threw their pipes in the thing. And the cool thing about this story too is my parents got called to a mission their 10 years later and now they're sharing their story of their son working on the word of wisdom and how it's applied to his life. And I just, another little small tender mercy that I just can't, he can't make this crap up. In some ways it's like unbelievable to me. God has a plan for us. Has a plan for you, is guiding you. Yeah. I'm just so grateful. I mean, and if I can backtrack a little bit too, when, when I got outta, I didn't know this. We were on our way to Denver, Colorado. I have a brother that lives in Colorado and we were going to a Broncos game and we were stuck in traffic in the car. And we were talking about how I've gotten sober. I think I was five years or six years into recovery at the time. And my dad told me the story about the $18,000 that he paid for the treatment center. Well, here's another blessing. His, his grain yielded that year. I think it's either an additional 18,000 or it was exactly 18,000. It was exactly what he needed. And my dad told me that story. That was something that hit me. Such a, such an awesome thing that I know you Tyler, and, and this is why this happened. And I told my dad, I said, why did it take so long to tell me that story? You know, it's like, well, we don't talk. Right? But it's like such a cool experience. And maybe that was personal to him and maybe it was none of my business, but, but I just love that. 'cause what it did is it told me that heavenly father knows Tyler Gordon, that he has a plan for him. That there's something more for him to do than just sit back and sit on a beach, go make some money, and sit on a beach. No, that's not what we're here to do. I'm not here to make a lot of money and just chill. We have something to do. And that is to bring. Our savior, he's coming. And either you're gonna help it or you're gonna make it worse. And there's, I think that's, that's all you can do. You can stay stagnant and hope that things work out for you, or you can get in and learn all that you can right now. And I truly believe that, that that's, and we're soldiers put soldiers doing therapy with people and people can judge us or do whatever they want. It's, it's a noble thing what we're doing, trying to help people and sit with them and mourn with those that mourn and, and love them where they're at, even though they're ridiculously difficult, our clients. And, you know, and you know exactly what to say to them. You know, I'm happy sometimes. I just feel like that when we're in there, just like what we're doing now, the spirit will tell us what to do and where to go. And I'm just grateful that my father, um, was faithful and kept going to the temple and kept doing things. And I think that's blessed his life too. And he can, he can. He can attest to that for himself, but just grateful to come from the family. I did. So recovery started then, you know, um, and it's been, it's been going ever since. I'm now married, got two kids, been to school, started working in the drug and alcohol treatment world. That's where I kind of went to, started working as frontline progressed. Had great mentors. Um, God made some great friends, which I wasn't really good at before I went to treatment. 'cause I was not good at being, I wasn't, I could make a friend, but I couldn't be a good friend. I think is the way it is. And I just, something I'm continually working on is trying to be a good friend. I mean, the world we live in, we're so disconnected. Technology's killing our, killing our people. You know, people are dying 'cause they're comparing themselves and we've really got a lot of work to do. I mean, it's, it's so daunting if you really step back and look at it, right? I mean Right. Dear clients. And. All that people deal with, they deal with a lot. Right. We deal with a lot. Oh yeah. They, yeah. Really, really? Yeah. And so, yeah. And I wondered if you could talk about AA for, for a minute. Yeah. Because I know that that is, that really helped you. Oh, it helped me so much. Well, it's 12 steps, you know, alcohol economists, two, two people. I mean, one of the things that, that I think is such a cool way of looking at AA is, is people get mad at God. I mean, our country's, you know, founded on Christianity and Christianity's a big part of what people do. And some people don't like God 'cause it means that they have to feel bad or be accountable to something if they are Christian or they believe in Christ or God. And so people need an excuse to hate God. And, and so that's a big thing that when you go to AA people, you know, and this is the truth, I always believed in God and I always knew that he was there for me. My bishop at the time when I was in trouble, I would go to him and he, he was trying to help me. And he is actually my best friend's dad. He's such a good man. But I said, do you want me to take my garments off? And he says, no, I'm afraid you're not gonna put 'em back on. I think he was right. But I always had my garments on, even when I was shooting up heroin. And I know that sounds maybe sacrilegious or whatever, but I, I'm grateful that I kept 'em on. 'cause I think it was a protection. I think there was some sort of protection, if that's possible. I don't know. That probably contradicts everything. I don't know how to understand it all. I bet it did. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. But I'm grateful. So, but AA taught me that I can have a God of my own conception. And that's actually what blew the mind of Bill W who was one of the founding guys, which by the way, when I was in Ohio, so glad you brought this up. So the church, Jesus Christ, Latterday Saints, which I a hundred percent love and believe in and just want to be, I just love it. It's great. It helps my life, helps me get closer to God. I'm now working in Akron, Ohio selling security systems, which is where Alcoholics Anonymous started. Wow. So do you think it's any Quin? So how many miracles. I'm now in Ohio, Akron, Ohio, and I go visit Bill W's house. I go visit his grave site where him and his wife are buried. I have this and I'm all by myself. You know, I'm on this like God kick just going around to these places where I never would've raised enough money. I never would've had enough ambition to go see these myself, but God knew that I probably needed these foundational things to realize, look, this is a place where this started. And you can take these tools because the church has adopted the 12 step and they use it for their a RP program. It's amazing. And the 12 steps are inspired of God, and it's the step first step, which is we admitted we are powerless over alcohol, and our lives is become unmanageable. It's the only step we have to do, right? Second one is came to believe that a power grid in yourself could restore you to sanity. Okay, so do you believe that something can change you? That's what people do when they come to you, is they look at you and say, I think you can help me. And then you have to convince 'em in some way as a therapist can help them make the decision. To turn your will over to the care of God as you understand 'em. So in a way, you are helping them make a decision to turn their life over to the care of something bigger than them, which is maybe the 12 steps, maybe therapy, maybe this group that you offer. That's what the 12 Steps did. Now, I didn't really understand that until I had to be in the program and I'm like, church is kind of my thing now, you know? And where I want to be is no matter what, the basics for me are always going back to the 12 step meetings. That's the basics for me. And I, if I, if I'm ever in a place where I'm like, I'm not going to a meeting, I'm in trouble, but I don't need to go to meetings every day. In my mind I don't. That's just the way that I live it. I'm not saying that's for anybody else. I'm not claiming that I'm part of that program where that's something that I'm selling. But if my attitude is I'm not, I'm in trouble. So I'm always down to, to do those kind of things. I mean, I, I love it and it's, and just like church and sacrament meeting, you can take something good from. Anybody talking just depends on where you're at. I can get mad that the lady gets up and bears her testimony for 20 minutes. Like people get really bugged. It's like, oh my gosh. It's like, who cares? She had a lot to share and probably it was really good. If you were listening, you might have taken something from it. You know, like, but we all like to judge and, and mm-hmm. By we, I'm talking about me. So that's all I can really express. But 12 steps are amazing and I, I would advocate 100% that if you're struggling, get to a meeting and they're all over, all over, you just have to get on a phone. 'cause I know you got access. If you can find drugs, you can find a meeting. You know what I mean? Like, it's not hard mm-hmm. To go to a meeting. It's just what is hard is actually staying sober. So we, you know this, but the miracle is, is that people actually get better. That's the miracle, right? That's right. It's not surprising when people relapse. It's not surprising when people die. 'cause the longer you stay sober, you realize that this disease is just taking people left and right and it doesn't care about you or your feelings. He just wants to kill you. So the 12 steps help you find God, but but most important to you is the church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Jesus. Yeah. God. Yeah. That's your foundation. Yeah. And that's in my last treatment center. She held up a book A Mormon, which is that little blue one that's kind of floppy that you'd hand out on your mission. And they have a floppy Alcoholic anonymous book, and she held it up like this. She was kind of standing away from us a little bit. She goes, what are these books? You guys know what these are? I said, those are two Book of Mormons. But no, they're, one was Alcoholic Anonymous and one was the Book of Mormon. Now, I don't want that to be like sacrilegious or anything like that because I'm not claiming that two alcoholics, but I do think that God inspires people and uses their gifts and talents, which is exactly what I think a podcast like this is about, is to take people that have real life experiences and we're turning it into something good, just like Ether 1227 talks about. So we're turning our. Terrible things that we did into something that God can use to help usher in and his son who is coming fast. And I just hope that I'm able to see it and be a part of it, so. Right. Well thank you so much and I was wondering if maybe you could bear your testimony at the end? Oh, sure, sure. Yeah. Um, yeah, what is it about bearing your testimony? You wanna get emotional, you know, it means the Holy Ghost is there. I hope so. I know that, um, I know that God lives, and the reason I know that is because I've seen him in my own personal life. I've never seen him personally, but I know him. I know that he has shown up in a way and that he's an advocate with me to, he wants me to have everything that he has and as long as I'm willing to take responsibility for my stuff, regardless of what I've done, he will always welcome me home. I was at the temple, and this is part of my testimony. I was at the temple a month ago and there was a gentleman when I showed up to do Initiat and he grabs me by the hand and he goes, welcome to the temple brother. Welcome. And he sat there for probably like 30 seconds. And you know how 30 seconds is when someone's got you by the hand and they're looking you in the eyes. It's like he's looking at my soul. He's like, glad you're here. I'm so glad you're here. And I felt a little uncomfortable, I'm not gonna lie, but I walked away and I sat down on my chair and I'm like, is he really that happy to see me? And the spirit talked to me and the spirit said, if you can't handle this much love from your brother down here, then how are you gonna accept all the love I have for you up here? And it blew me away. And that's my problem. So God is revealing to me in the temple, the house of the Lord. You need to let people love you. I even, I mean, I grew up, like I talked to you a little bit about my family system I grew up with. In a family system where I don't know if it was my head telling me or if I really was a burden and I feel like a burden to people. And so I don't let people in and I need to let people in, and I need to let God love me. And as I do that, then I can share that. And so I think that's, it's, my testimony is, is that's how it works, is I just gotta keep putting my best foot forward as I fumble through it, God will continue to show, but it comes down to my willingness and, and God has given me so much. I know that I know that he provided a savior in the atonement and I have no idea how that necessarily works, but I am grateful that it's there and available. And he provides resources to go to church, particularly the sacrament, renewing the covenants every Sunday. Um, and I wanna be with my family. I've heard this and this is what keeps me going. In some ways. I love my whole family, but the family you create is way more important than the family that you came from. And I want to create a family with my children and my wife. Of people who do the right thing, regardless of what's in front of them. They make the right decisions and they always turn to their father in heaven. Mm-hmm. And I say that in the name of Jesus Christ. Amen. I love that. Well, thank you so much, Tyler, for talking with us today. Oh, I'm really grateful that you let me share my testimony. I think that's a really neat part of this, and I think it's, oh yeah, the most important part. We all have a story and we need to tell our story, so thanks for, yeah. For making it happen. Oh yeah. And I was just thinking of, um, the Book of Mormon. I mean, some of the greatest, um, stories are the comeback stories of, if you think of Alma and then Alma, the younger, those are great stories of the younger. I think he becomes the prophet. He was, yeah. Struggling as a youth. I mean, isn't that amazing? And all of us, we all have sins and weaknesses and problems. And because of Jesus Christ, we can be totally clean and forgiven. And I just think that's amazing. And thank you so much for being here and, and sharing a, sharing your story with us. Be your dear friend. And I'm Yeah. Get emotional too. You've, you've been an inspiration, you know, as you watch what you've done with school. I know we've had our conversations while we were in those, when are we gonna be done type of days, right? How much longer do we have to be here in all these classes doing all this work? And, uh, as you were going through your own family stuff, and I know how strong of a woman you are, and I really am grateful for your friendship. Um, I don't know if you've really known how important it's been to me throughout that process, but here's a good opportunity for you to know that I really appreciate your kind words at times, your kind presence. You have a really soft aura about like welcoming aura, you know, and really appreciate that, and I think that's, it's what makes you successful. So keep up the good work. Oh, thank you. Thank you so much. Yeah, of course. This is Kim Smiley. I hope you enjoyed this mini Mighty Messages podcast today. And just remember you are loved.