Hope in Ukraine

Since February 2022, Andre Zinkovsky has been living through the war in Ukraine while continuing to work, care for others, and practice his faith. In this episode, Andre shares what life is like in a country at war, the miracles he has experienced, how trials have helpe him grow, and the lessons he has learned about trusting God during difficult times. His story is a powerful reminder that faith, hope, and resilience can grow even in the midst of hardship. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hi, this is Kim Smailey for Mini Mighty Messages, and today I'm speaking with Andrei Zinkovsky, who lives in Ukraine and has experienced life in a country at war since Russia's full-scale invasion on February 24th, 2022. Welcome to Mini Mighty Messages. Today my guest is Andrei Zinkovsky, and he lives in Kharkov, Ukraine. So Andrey was born and raised in Kharkov, Ukraine. After finishing high school, he studied at Kharkov State University of Food Technology and Trade, where he earned his master's degree. He has been a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints since 1999 and served as a missionary in the Scotland-Edinburgh Mission from 2004 to 2006. Today, Andre is involved in food service, humanitarian work, and community projects in Harkov, including Smart Food and Cafe 84. During the war, serving and helping people through food deliveries and community support became an important part of his life and faith. He loves gardening and finds peace and hope in growing things, especially during difficult times. His faith, service, and connection to people continue to shape the way he sees life and the future of Ukraine. Well, thank you for joining me today, Andre.

SPEAKER_01 1:25

Kimberly, it's such a pleasure to be with you today, and especially to support your podcast. I have been uh hearing a lot about it, and now it's finally my turn on this beautiful podcast. And let me start with that. You look so radiant today. Something different about you. Honestly. Honestly, you have changed, and I can see the Lord in your eyes.

SPEAKER_00 1:53

Oh, well, thank you so much. Yes, so it's finally your turn to be on my podcast. And I guess the first thing to start out with, it's like the elephant in the room. How is the war going in Harkov?

SPEAKER_01 2:11

Well, Kim, you know that I'm not the person to speak about the war. And for the past what almost four and a half years, I have very little spoken about the war and what's going on here. Uh generally. Of course, you all see my my life through this for years, through this war, but uh personally I try to stay out of you know discussing the war. War is still going and it's raging, and after four years, for many people, including me, it's now something that we used to. It's now a new normal for us, uh, and for me personally. So it's um when people asking, hey, how's the war? For me, it's like, well, it's now part of my identity, part of my life, part of my you know, everyday life. Because all of my life is tied to the war, because I have to work in this environment, I have to live in this environment, I have to find out in new ways to earn my living. So there's like a whole bunch of things that is now all dependent on the situation in Ukraine and the war, and of course it's not getting any easier, although the media are now not speaking at all, or maybe a little, uh, in other countries about Ukraine and the war in Ukraine because people are so tired of this, and honestly, it's um for me it's a nonsense when two people so stubborn, I'm speaking about our leaders, who are not able to come to an agreement. There is no winning in this war, there is no winning for regular people like myself. There is no like this huge uh victory. It's not gonna happen. We all lost so much already through these four years that whatever is the outcome of this war, we will be happy because we want this to end. It's taken up too much space and life from uh from from me personally and from so many other Ukrainians in Ukraine or outside of it.

SPEAKER_00 4:42

Oh, yeah, it's just been awful, and you want it to stop, and we all want it to stop, and yeah, it's gone on so long the media has now focused on other things, but you're still here um living life uh uh amidst the war. And that that's what I think is interesting about it. Um I used to like to read books about how people uh survive during a war. And um I thought it was interesting that they carry on their life. They're they're still working, they're still doing all the things they do um while the war is going on. And I guess it's like even regular life, even though I'm not living in a war zone, um, there are lots of awful things happening around me, and we just continue to go. We just we just know um bad things could happen, um, and we just continue our lives. But a war, you know, is is a lot more intense and seems a lot more scary, but you're saying that you kind of get used to it, right? You you get used to the fact that there could be bombs dropping uh in your neighborhood, and that's just how life is, right?

SPEAKER_01 5:58

Yeah, absolutely. And when I remember first explosions, when I heard the first explosions back in February or March 2022, uh it was something that I was scared about, something I was anxious about, and now I don't even pay attention to that. I hear something is going on outside and I like alright, I've been hearing this for four years. It's well at least it's not in the neighborhood, but still it's hitting somewhere, hitting someone, it's destroying another lives. So it's never something that um we take or I take uh easily because every explosion is potentially taking a lot of lives with it.

SPEAKER_00 6:51

Oh yeah. I remember when um I was watching one of your lives, it was when the war started, and bombs were dropping outside you could hear, and your face was super nervous, and you went over to look outside to see what was happening. And then the other day when I was talking to you and you heard a bomb, you went and looked outside, but your face wasn't all stressed out. I mean, you were hoping it hadn't hit your apartments, but it's kind of become more commonplace. That would be Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:25

Yeah, you're right, and that is terrible because we used to something mortifying, something awful. And in a million years before the war, I would think how you could ever get used to something like that. But apparently people are creatures that truly get you know adjusted to even bad things.

SPEAKER_00 7:51

Right, right. You just have to keep going and and when the uh air raid sirens used to go off, people probably used to panic and find shelter. But now you hear those, and what happens, you just kind of go along your business, right?

SPEAKER_01 8:11

Yeah, exactly. That's what is going on because uh back at the beginning people would run for the shelter, you're right, uh, to the um how do you call that subway stations, underground stations, metro stations. We have metro here, and so this would be uh in the beginning it was packed with people. People were living there under under the ground in in those stations, but now no one even you know bothers to even fasten their steps, they just you know fly along.

SPEAKER_00 8:50

Keep going, yeah.

unknown 8:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:53

So I'm glad it's finally uh spring there and you're able to work in your garden and plant plants. But you had a pretty rough winter and it was super cold, right? The power kept going off.

SPEAKER_01 9:09

And that's uh the war as well, because we would hit Russian power stations and Russia with massive attacks uh a hundredfolds would hit our power stations, and of course, uh you know our our strength of these two countries are not even comparable. Uh and when Ukraine hits the Russian side, they just try to show their allies, the guys who give them money, that they doing something. Like all the European countries, they just showing hey look what we did, and like little kid trying to deserve uh their parents' approval. And Russia, of course, a huge country with a lot of power plants, and yes they they hit one, two, three, ten of them, but it it's not the same as they hit ten power plants in Ukraine because that's all we have.

SPEAKER_00 10:20

Right.

SPEAKER_01 10:21

And that's why the winter was pretty pretty cold for us.

SPEAKER_00 10:26

Right. Yeah, that was that was hard to watch, but um things are better, and um yeah, we we pray and we hope that uh the war will end soon, but unfortunately we don't have any control over that, so we just keep praying and hoping. But the day it happens, oh my goodness, that will be a good day. How do you how do you feel about that? Do you have hope it will end soon, or what what do you think about?

SPEAKER_01 10:58

Well, my personal opinion on that is that until the greedy people, which is our government, is in place, the war will continue on for another two, three whatever years. Uh because all they do is earning money, and no one speaks about the corruption that war brings. And um yeah, so until these people will be in power, they will do everything to stay in power, and they would do everything to you know to roll the wheels of this war.

SPEAKER_00 11:37

Yeah, I didn't even think about that. You know, that the the leaders of your country and uh anyway that are making they're making money off of the war. I never would have thought of that.

SPEAKER_01 11:49

It's not only leaders of our country, they are stealing money. It's corruption, but many other countries, including the states, they're making money of this war because they're providing Ukraine with uh weapons that Ukraine buys from them. And I mean, why wouldn't you? Why wouldn't you, you know, earn in this war? And many, well, including me, I'm one of my business, the cafeteria, is working only because the war is going on. Only because there is like there is people who are being uh injured, they are sent to the hospital, and my cafeteria is right next to the hospital. When the war will be over, when there would be no more injured people, this business won't go, one run, because there would be no people for this. I would have to change the whole concept of the business. But right now it's running priorly because of the war, and so many other people adjusted to this, adjusted their businesses, their lives, everything to to go along this um new normal.

SPEAKER_00 12:59

Right. Everyone's just trying to survive. Okay, I get that. Um how has the war affected your faith, your spirituality, your faith in God? Well your testimony.

SPEAKER_01 13:18

That is pretty interesting question, Kim. And I think most of all, this war helped me to see myself and my worth and my uh attitude. Because when I'm sure as a professional therapist you know that when hard times are coming, when hardships are coming, when person doesn't have enough time to change the masks or change their you know perceptions, they just run without the mask that they, you know, we'll do this, we all wear one mask or another mask. And when the hard time hit and when it's continuous, when you know you don't have time to breathe out, you don't have time to switch the masks. And I learned something about myself that I wouldn't know about myself. I wouldn't in a million years think that I would stay in the war and help other people. It wasn't my like idea or my goal or it wasn't my uh it wasn't in me. I didn't I didn't think about this. Yes, in the church we are taught that we should be you know helping each other and supporting each other and this is our baptismal covenant, right? But sometimes we just you know take it for granted. But when the war came, it just woken up something in me, and I had this desire to obey by this covenant that I made with Heavenly Father that I would never think I would, you know, be in a position to do, and to stay and to help and to spend my time and my freedom and my agency on something like that. So to answer your question, it did help me to see myself and my worth and to see what I'm capable of, and especially what I'm capable of with the help of Heavenly Father.

SPEAKER_00 15:38

Okay, so before the war, you didn't know that you were the type of person that would go and help people. You didn't know that about yourself?

SPEAKER_01 15:47

No, not at all. Not in a million years, I would think about that. Oh really? Yes, of course I would do, you know, I would be a nice person and I would help people, but not in the same way I did in the beginning of the war.

SPEAKER_00 16:03

Oh. Yeah, I mean, because yeah, when I first started following you on Instagram, um, you know, you're delivering all this food to older people and lots of people, and I'm I so I just have assumed that's how you've always been. You've been, you know, uh cognizant of other people and their needs, and you've served other people, but but you say that's not you didn't you didn't realize that that was one of your strengths before the war?

SPEAKER_01 16:30

Yeah, absolutely. That is exactly what I'm saying, because first of all, I'd never been in a position like that, uh, where there would be a lot of needs and I would be finding myself uh helping those people. There would there wasn't just the opportunity. And with the war, the opportunity showed itself itself, and I just jumped for it for this opportunity and um yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:02

So you didn't normally take food to babushkas, huh?

SPEAKER_01 17:06

No. Well, for my business, it was one feature in in the smart food food delivery service that I run. Uh every month we would do a free delivery to uh uh to a family who is in need, and every every month we would choose just random family that our clients would you know suggest or we would know about someone, and uh yeah, we would do this as a community service from from our business. Once a month, one big box for our family. That's it. That's what we um you know, okay.

SPEAKER_00 17:49

Once a month, yeah, yeah, and the Lord just had everything planned out that you knew how to deliver and you were able to help people, and that's that's super cool.

SPEAKER_01 18:01

That's oh oh it's really amazing. How the Lord has prepared everything for for me to do this, and he started long, long time before it's it happened. Um so let me uh share this um this sequence of stories of my life. Yeah, that is so cool. I was baptized in 1999, and um there was this thing that in our mission they call it mini-mission. So a young man before he turns 18, or when he's 18, when he's preparing to go on a mission, he has an opportunity to go on a mini mission, to serve with the real missionaries, uh, for a transfer for six weeks. And I did that, and I had my companion was an American, of course, and every time every morning he would study Russian for his uh language study, and he would tell me, Hey, you should study language as well, and I told him, I already know Russian, I don't need you know study language like you do. He's like, No, you need to learn English, and I would be really stubborn and I would tell him, I don't need English, it's it's not happening, I'm not going gonna go anywhere. I wanna stay in Ukraine, I I know people, I know the language, it's gonna be easy. That's what I'm looking for. I'm looking for easy. And he's like, Well, that's not how the Lord works, and of course I wouldn't believe him, I wouldn't, you know, take his words seriously. And then of course I received my papers to serve in Scotland, and uh I didn't know well I knew how to count 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10. That's all I needed, all I knew about the English language. And uh I went to the to the mission field knowing just this, and then um I was hoping and I was just hoping for the uh gift of tongues that is promised to the missionaries, and I remember my uh not my but mission mission president's wife, Sister Vins. She was uh you know trying to tell me that I should be studying language because that's how you receive gift of tongues. And I told her, hey Sister Vins, listen, listen to yourself. I was really stubborn. And uh would tell her it says gift of tongues. It means I have to do nothing to receive it. She's like, you gotta learn uh hard way. So anyway, uh I was forced to learn the language. I didn't want to do this, I didn't have desire to do this. I just you know it wasn't my thing. I didn't need this, as I thought. And then in it was in 2004 when I went on my mission, and then I started my business in um when in 2017 when I came from a mission, I finished the university, I went to and worked for first for the hotel, then for the um oil company. And um when I returned home, I was looking for a job and I I didn't want to open my own business, it wasn't something I wanted to do, but I was looking for a job and there was no job that I wanted or that paid what I wanted for the time that I would spend there, and I was really desperate. And then I thought, why don't you do something for yourself? Like, why why don't you uh open a business? It was just a little thought, and then my friend he would you know catch up this and he would be he was an experienced businessman. He's like, you should start this, it's a good idea. It's like, no, I don't want to, it's not something, it's not something that I, you know, capable of doing.

SPEAKER_00 22:26

Uh but oh that's interesting because I thought it would be natural for you, because I know now you've got two businesses and you always think of businesses, but this wasn't this was something you had to learn, was your thing.

SPEAKER_01 22:39

Oh, yeah, absolutely. And that's how the Lord works. He just you know teaches, teaches us, but then when we are stubborn like I was, he's pushing us harder and harder until we give up our stubbornness, our natural man, and you know, give in what he gives us. And when he opens the door, we're not trying to, you know, withstand and um uh just enter into the door and take his blessings because I realized that he when he opens the door, he gives everything we need to go forward and to do this thing, like for the language and then for the business, and then when the war started, I recorded this one uh a story on Instagram that I never did before. So my mom called me and said, There is our neighbor, and she called me and she has diabetes, and you in your apartment you have my insulin, so give it uh take it and give it to her. And then I thought, well, if she is stuck at home, then it means that she won't be able to get anything. So my mom had uh the food storage in my apartment as well, and I went there and I got a lot of stuff, and um and I thought that I should be recording something, and I didn't have any followers, just you know, some few friends. I didn't like I didn't know why I'm doing this because I never done this before, and I just recorded this story where I'm taking this food, taking the insulin and some vitamins to this neighbor of mine on the fifth floor. That's it, and I did it in English. Why did I do it in English? I don't know. I don't know why you know I was probably not probably, but now I realize I was guided by the spirit, and sometimes we could be surprised as Nephi was when he had to do what he had to do with Laban. But when we follow the lead, we can be 100% sure that this will be our safety and our protection from the whirlwinds of this world. So I did that, and then all of a sudden, people are like random people, not people that I know, starting to ask me weird questions. How can we help? So, yes, he made me learn English and then um do the business and then taught me how to be charitable when we did this um deliveries once a month once a month, and boom, I was ready to do something for him. Uh with the help of thousands of people from around the world.

SPEAKER_00 25:49

Yeah, isn't that amazing? You had 20,000 followers, and people were donating money so you could deliver food to people. I mean, that was pretty amazing, wasn't it? You were delivering every day from morning till evening.

SPEAKER_01 26:07

Yeah, and another thing I knew where to get the food because in the beginning of the war, first I would say half a year, half a year, six months, first six months, uh shops were closed uh because a lot of people just ran away. And the food was scarce, and it wasn't possible to get it as freely as we can get it right now or before the war. And because of my business, I knew the suppliers, I knew where they you know uh situated, and knew their numbers, and I knew farmers, and some of the farmers left uh their whole farms and just run from the war, and some farmers couldn't do this, couldn't leave their animals, so they stayed. And uh so I knew all of this, I had this all of these connections, people with the food and people who are hungry, and I was in the middle, and I was able to do this, and the Lord would send people that I needed, like for example, my driver Dima. I didn't have a car back then, but I had Dima. And he didn't leave, his family left to Germany, his wife and two daughters, but he stayed, and so he was there uh provided by the Lord uh for all of those people because without him I wouldn't be able to do this, and without my language skills, I wouldn't be able to do anything, without my business skills, nothing, without people who followed me and donated, I could do nothing. So a lot of things had to come together in a perfect moment to allow me and allow everybody else to be an instrument in the Lord's hands to help others. That's amazing, and for me it's mind-blowing. And um I think when uh all this will be over, I mean the world and our lives, and we'll be standing before the throne of the Almighty, and our life would just run before us, and we would see how He was how He made all of the things for us where we could be happy, where we could be living in abundance, where we could just enjoy our life and uh fulfill our goals of our creations. Right now we it's it's hard for us, and only when we speak and kind of analyze what's been going on, we probably could see just uh very little part of this, but I'm sure there is more to that, and it would be uh eye-opening when the Lord will show us what he really did for us and where he protected us, where his angels followed us and encircled us when it was dangerous or not safe.

SPEAKER_00 29:32

Yeah, it's amazing to think about how God plans things, how he orchestrates things, and just the amazing works of God, and that we are just uh like instruments in his hands, and um how much he loves us. And you've experienced so many miracles and uh in this time, and uh I I'm thinking about the time where you were on a bus, and um so there are manhunters that want to capture men to be put in uh the military, and didn't they just walk right by you?

SPEAKER_01 30:12

Yeah, that was another hard point in my life. But the Lord was there and he did work his miracles. I was um so I needed to go to the to another city, and between cities we have these big huge block posts. When you leave the city, there's a big block post, and when you enter another city, big block post, and there is like small block posts in the city or somewhere along the way. And at this big block post, they would check your papers. And my friend who would go to that city for like many times he would say to me, You should go on the minivan. It's like not minivan, we call it Marchutka, it's like minibus. It carries probably 15 people. So minibus, and he's like, I've been taking this transportation three or four times, and not a single time when they stopped the bus and checked the papers. So this is the safest place to go, this is the safest way to go. And um I was pretty lucky. Lucky at the first blog post, they stopped our bus, and uh the military woman walked in. She's like, Everybody prepare your papers, and of course I have no papers to show. And um I was really angry with my friend before we started the journey because he bought the tickets not in the front row, but just uh somewhere else.

SPEAKER_00 32:11

Uh right there in the front, right? Wasn't there kind of like an elevated seat right in the front?

SPEAKER_01 32:18

I wanted to sit right in front with the driver. Oh there's a driver and two seats uh beside him, and I think this is the good places because it's comfortable, it's nice, and you can see the road, uh, a lot of space there, and back there is like not so good places, and one of the places is above the wheel, so the wheel goes kind of inside the bus, and the seat that is uh there is elevated, so it's the highest seat everywhere, and I got this seat. This was the most uncomfortable seat ever, and I was so angry with the with the friend who bought the tickets because I specifically told him to get the tickets in front, and he's like, Oh well, I forgot. And then this lady walked in, and I'm sitting right there on the highest seat, and there was no papers. There was uh five men or four men in the whole bus, and everybody is showing their papers, uh, and she's like looking around, checking the papers, and I'm waiting when she will you know talk to me and would ask my papers, but she never did, and she looked right at me or through me. I don't know, I don't know how this happened, but it's not possible to not see me. I didn't hide. There was not not like not a place to hide a way to to hide because it's an elevated seat, and even if I would, you know, do this, I I couldn't, because it's very high. So that was a miracle that the Lord showed to me and to many other people who I shared it with.

SPEAKER_00 34:12

I've prayed that for you because I knew there there was a time where Joseph Smith was walking past mob members and they didn't see him. And also I'd read a book about a a young girl, it was during World War II, and she'd walk through an area where there was a whole bunch of Russian soldiers and they didn't see her. So when you would talk about um there being manhunters, um I I've prayed before that they wouldn't see you because yeah, that's awful. So that's you've witnessed a lot of miracles, Andre.

SPEAKER_01 34:49

Oh, most definitely. So the war it it's terrible, of course, but for me it was a learning experience, and it is learning experience, it's not over yet. And it was eye-opening and it was helping me to understand who am I and what I'm what I am capable of and as well helped me realize how many people are willing to obey their baptismal governance. And for me, this experience is when the community comes together, it's amazing what it could do. Because in my city right now, in my branch, we have only five people and it's pretty depressing, honestly. I bet But when you when I realized that like no matter the distance, there is a bunch of people, a lot of your brothers and sisters who are willing to help and support you in any way they could or they can or you need, and that is amazing how how this works because I would never think that some random people because you were random people to me, I didn't know you, I didn't you know didn't know about your existence, like you didn't know about my existence. But somehow we all came together and we all did something incredible, something that I don't think we would in in our single lives think that this is possible. No, because honestly, I didn't think it's possible, I didn't even think about this.

SPEAKER_00 36:58

It's probably good in your situation to sometimes think about these good the the things that we've been talking about, how the Lord's hand is in your life and in our lives, um because you know it's been such a difficult situation, but I have another question. Um Are you glad you stayed? Um, because uh the first award, you could come and go, you could have left, you know what I mean? Are you glad that you stayed?

SPEAKER_01 37:28

Well, I couldn't leave easily, but I could live with my mom because my mom is disabled per was a disabled person, and as her caregiver, whatever you call that, person, I could live with her easily. Not not easily, but we would have to go through the papers and everything, but it was a possibility. Uh but we never did.

SPEAKER_00 38:00

Right, right. Well, I guess the question, how can you how could you be glad if you stayed? That's probably not a great question, because you probably wish you didn't stay, or do you?

SPEAKER_01 38:13

Well, that's a tricky question. You tried you're trying to trick me into your uh trickery. But honestly, um right now I wish I could leave. But back then I was grateful that I stayed. I don't know if it makes sense, but right now for me life is uh Um it's not hard. The war have sucked all my powers away from me, and I'm just you know well I'm life, it's good, I'm I'm trying to do my best, but do I want this life? Or do I want life like this? I don't really I don't really want to hide and run and um when I uh when I'm outside look over my shoulder and think, oh, is this the van with the manhunters or if these people are going after me and trying to catch me? Are they manhunters? Or when it's there is like air rail or is this going to hit my car or hit my apartment or hit my workplace, or yeah, you know, it's I'm I'm exhausted. Like I exhausted all of my powers that I had for the war. I have none left, and I'm just trying to every day to get by. And I don't want life like this, honestly. It's hard, it's um it's not I don't know if it's stressful. Well, it is stressful, but now it's like chronic stress and you don't see it anymore.

SPEAKER_00 40:09

You just you know Yeah, I'm interviewing you at this is a tough time, but um uh yes. But um what things uh give you some hope? Hope what thoughts give you hope?

SPEAKER_01 40:42

This is a pretty interesting and deep question, thank you for asking. And I think for me the hope comes from knowing Heavenly Father because when you try to learn Heavenly Father, when you try to understand what he's all about and why we're here and we're not here merely for you know existing, he has a plan for each of us and as a perfect gardener he knows best the soil where we will grow to our finest potential and um trusting that he is that being, that he knows better and sees better and higher and sees all the picture gives me hope that whatever comes it means that he knows better and this is the soil where I will grow to my full potential or come close to that. Yeah, he's our love and heavenly father, and he will never lead us to something that wouldn't eventually make us happy.

SPEAKER_00 42:25

Yeah. I'm thinking this makes me think of some of the hardest times in my life. Uh life right now is has its difficulties, but I'm thinking back maybe like twenty-five years or and uh how there was a time where all I had was him. Um there was a time where there was a time where all I had was him and him to talk to. And even though it was really hard, I'm so grateful because I learned how to um sorry I learned how to hear him, honestly. That was almost grateful for that that I learned how to hear him and I knew for sure he was there. So even though it was an awful time, I'm grateful to go through that because that was worth it was worth it to me to me. I wanted to go through anything like that again. Hopefully not I do know if I have really hard times in the future. Um that help you then, that is that he'll help me. Um that I'll make it through and uh that after you know really hard trials that um that I'll be glad I went through them to learn the things that I need to learn I guess so um I know this is a really hard time for you but and I I hope it ends soon but I guess there will be really good things to learn from it.

SPEAKER_01 44:27

Absolutely agree with you and your story made me think of um refiner's fire we all gotta go through this if we want to receive his finest blessings and reach our highest potential we gotta go through the refiner's fire. There is no other way no other means no escape we just need to realize that we gotta do this and um when we realize in that and when we actually go through that with think with the thought that he is there to support us and to help us and to refine us then this changes all of the perspective of our hardships and our trials and our hard moments in life or in life of our relatives or children our parents and other uh loved ones.

SPEAKER_00 45:32

Yeah yeah so I've got seven kids and right now I sometimes am seeing several of my kids really struggle with things and I can talk to them I can help them in any way I can but I cannot stop their trial from happening and so that's really hard to watch but I I do know from going through trials myself that um that they can develop faith in in God and uh develop other you know dependence on God and and humility. I know that I really needed to go through my trials. I needed to be really poor for a long time so I wouldn't be proud for example. I remember when I was first married and I I would uh look down on people who lived by me who were poor and so Heavenly Father's like okay she really needs to uh go through this to be humble and so I I'm grateful for my trials that have helped me to be humble and and everything else but yeah and as a as a parent you your your biggest desire what is your biggest desire for a kid that they will have the faith that they need to to make it through this life that they'll have faith that their testimonies will be strong that they can stay close to God and make it through this life with their testimonies.

SPEAKER_01 47:01

Well this yes but most of all you want them to be happy right yeah exactly there is nothing else a parent wants for their children but to be happy and the same goes with our Heavenly Father he wants us to succeed he doesn't want us to fail he doesn't want us to be miserable that's not his goal that's not why he created us that's not why he put us on this earth in our families no he doesn't want us to be in misery in poverty that's true he wants us to be successful and happy and trusting that he knows better helps me personally realize that he's a loving hand with Father and what he wants he wants me to be happy he wants me to be successful he wants me to be able to help others but I can help others when I have enough of myself strength money time everything because we have been blessed with a lot of talents that we eventually blessed could bless others so that is a very important principle for us to learn today that whatever he puts us war or troubles or poverty or sickness or pains he does this for a specific purpose and reason for us to be happy and in this moment when it's hard when it's painful we we don't see this we don't you know usually grateful for our obstacles and for our trials we are praying for help and for support but we're not well I rarely do this when I thank him for this refiner's fire for these hardships in my life but that's what he's given us this to us to help us to become happy. And also I think going through trials we're able to help other people I know that um the trials I've been through I'm able to help my uh clients and other people I I understand them I understand what they're going through so I think that's huge too it helps us to be compassionate yeah every trial every problem brings up a lesson that we need to learn and from my personal experience if you didn't get it first time you're gonna get it harder but next time and if you didn't get it harder next time you're gonna get it tenfold harder and you're gonna learn it. One way or another you gotta learn it. And it's easy to learn it first time but for us humans it's maybe doesn't make sense to learn from the first time and to be nice and to uh become Zion people right away we gotta learn and we gotta go through this hardship through the refinery spirit and if we look to our savior's life it wasn't easy he didn't take all of the fame during his life and he's a perfect example for us in this how to endure to the end how to even the in the hardest times allow ourselves to trust and to hope that Him the Father will deliver right well Andre I know that you have to uh think about the curfew in your area and so I really appreciate talking to you today and that you're able to talk and be on the this podcast with me and for all your wisdom and everything we talked about.

SPEAKER_00 51:03

So thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01 51:04

Thank you again thank you for inviting me it's I know we tried to arrange this for a long time because you're a very busy person and um honestly it was a blast I really like talking to you and in this environment it's friendly it's light it's gospel centered and that's what the world needs today not the news about the wars but how we all can come together and become a Zion ready people.

SPEAKER_00 51:38

Yeah I totally agree well thanks so much Andre thank you for joining us today on many mighty messages