Embodiment as a Way of Healing

Are we truly connected to ourselves, or are we performing to fit into a world that values productivity over presence? 

In this episode, we’re joined by our guest Erin Kinney, an embodiment teacher, ceremonialist, and psychosomatic healing guide whose work is rooted in helping people return to a deeper relationship with their bodies.

This conversation felt especially meaningful because Erin brings such a grounded, honest, and heartfelt way of speaking about embodiment, power, boundaries, and what it means to truly listen to ourselves. Together, we explore how easy it is to lose connection with who we are in a world that asks us to keep performing, producing, and pushing through.

Erin shares so beautifully about the body as a portal, not a problem, and about the healing that becomes possible when we slow down, pay attention, and begin to trust what our bodies are telling us. This is a rich and human conversation about presence, self-expression, sovereignty, and coming home to ourselves. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Well, hello everyone, and welcome back to No One is Perfect. Kind of a funny conversation we had before, and here we are again. So today, hi Marty. We're joined with a special guest. Her name is Erin, and she is a trained ceremonialist, an embodiment teacher, and psychosomatic healing guide. And her work is really based in that the body isn't the problem, it's the portal. So it begins to give us answers and learning to listen to the body. And we've talked about quite a bit how ungrounded life feels right now in our world on the planet because of the chaos and uh uncertainty that is happening. And I really thought bringing Aaron on is a good way to offer another resource for people because I think the me the more resources we have can have, if we're feeling dysregulated, some might fit better with other people. And Aaron, you've been in practicing this for 14 years. So I know you're well versed in the body and embodiment. And I would love to hear a little bit about you and how you got into this and the teaching of embodiment.

SPEAKER_01 1:19

Yeah, that's a great question. Um well I started out. I mean, I've I've I've always sort of been sort of fascinated by, you know, by the body. And I think I this time in my life, which was probably more like 2015, 2016, just really recognizing like I couldn't even acknowledge a feeling that I was having. You know, I'd have this experience of, you know, have having an experience with someone, and then three or four days later, you know, having this thought of like, wow, I really didn't like that, you know, or like I just have a thought about it, and I'd get into a thought loop about things and and and recognizing I really didn't know how to talk about how what I was feeling. And relationships were just, you know, just a big ball of chaos, you know, knew nothing about communication. It was just always a big mess in my experience, you know, like sort of a jumbled mess and expressing myself or learning how to express what I needed or wanted. I mean, it just it was just really not even in my scope. And I did, I met my current partner, and he had done a like some men's work with a particular teacher that worked in this embodiment realm, specifically around um sexual polarity and intimacy and relationship. And so we we got involved just for experiential thing. And at first I had a lot of resistance to it because I just thought it was a little strange. Like, what do you mean? We're gonna get into this room and do things. Like, and when I first went, I was very triggered right off the bat, um, which just showed me that I had all kinds of stuff in there that I didn't know was there. Um, but it was a three-day weekend, and at the end of the weekend, I felt so free. I felt so open. I remember um Andy took me to a restaurant. It was at the end, we went out to dinner, and I remember just walking in the restaurant thinking, wow, like who is this? You know, I'm I just I felt so, I just felt more alive, I felt more present, I felt more the best way I could put it, like me, like whatever that that was. I felt like me. Like if I didn't know who me was, I'm like, this right here is me, and I want more of this. And so we started to, we participated in a program and then we started assisting in the programs. And so we'd go to these retreats and we were kind of assisting and training and learning, and then an opportunity came up to start teaching more in the realm of feminine embodiment, like so working specifically with women. And so I just kind of I fell into it because I was drawn to it, because I loved the way I felt and I just wanted more of that. So I kept coming back because I wanted to experience more of that, whatever that was. And and then I got into teaching, which had a completely different experience and reward with that. Um, you know, getting to, you know, learn how to hold space and work with other people who have maybe gone through some of the same struggles that I had gone through. So that was the initial start of it, and then it it kind of morphs from there into how I got here. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:59

Yeah, I if I could sure, I love what you said because I think that's so key for all of us. Uh, like we get into what we're doing because it's like, I don't know, I'm feeling improvement. Like I never thought I would tap with other people, and then I'm like, well, if I could help them, yeah, I'd like to help them. So I love that. I love it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:19

That and I loved what you said about you felt more of me.

SPEAKER_03 5:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:24

I think that is like a million dollar thing because I find in my practice, and Marty, you might as well, so many people aren't sure of who that is or even what that means. Like literally, what does that mean more of me? And because we get we grow up with so many different labels and belief systems, and and sometimes we're in our 40s or 50s, and we're like, I don't like that anymore. Who am I? And you know, moving out of relationships, and it's so important, I believe, to really know who we are, and our body is the portal of knowing because it holds the stories of everything that happened to us. And so, Aaron, I'm curious as you've started working with him uh with the embodiment piece. What do you notice as people start to work with you? Like, what are some of the things that they get as they become more of them and start to get access to who they are?

SPEAKER_01 6:31

Yeah, it's a really great question. Um well, firstly, I what I have noticed, and for whatever reason, what I find and mostly with women that come to work with me or want to work with me, usually they come to me, and if I ask them a couple of words, like what are they, you know, what is their intention or what are they wanting more of? It's usually something around power and confidence. Um sometimes I hear the word clarity, but I would say like confidence and power are two of the biggest words that I hear. And so, and that that has a lot of layers, right? Because it it's the first thing I would ask is what does that mean to you? What is what is if you knew you felt confident in your body, like what would the, you know, what would it feel like? What would that look like? Um but I think once we start working together, what I find is that the women I have worked with tend to find more access to what is actually true for them. So I think we'll have this idea of what power is, and then we start to recognize like what power really is. And and so, and and a lot of it comes from just an exploration of beginning to track and notice sensations in the body, you know, being able to uh track what they're feeling either on a physical level or emotional level, uh, being able to find their own language, you know, and their own experience. So it's it's really about, and I think in the end, what they end up experiencing is a sense of sovereignty. And again, that's another great word, right? Well, what does that actually mean? And how would I know if I was actually sovereign or not? And I don't really know that we can know what that is until we actually experience it, and so, but that's often what I find they end up experiencing is a sense of power of being able to access one's own um inner wisdom, uh, inner intelligence, and just being able to understand like what does that mean to be in a relationship with that, so that I'm not seeking answers outside of myself, which is what so many of us have been conditioned. And then how do I actually source from what's already here and present? And so there's tends to be this um, and I think the results or the effects of that over some time is more aliveness, you know, a broader range and fuller expression, more clarity around boundaries. Um just more awareness in general of like what is actually present. Because I think we can also have great awareness, and sometimes it takes time, you know, even around the realm of boundaries, because we don't necessarily know we have a boundary until it's actually been crossed, or we've crossed our own. And so being able to recognize like where is the boundary, or how do you know? And so much of that is just body sensory awareness of recognizing what the body's actually trying to tell us.

SPEAKER_02 10:08

Yeah, I love what you said there because I think it's so true. We don't know we have a boundary or rule, either of those. And then there's like, oh, that's a rules violation for me. It got crossed. And especially, I love that you work with women because especially with women to be nice, be pleasing, be kind, be that totally. I I mean, I good girlled myself practically into a coma, and I am exaggerating, but it's like uh to I love that to the empowerment, and again, I think all that can mean something different for everybody, but um, like speak your truth, even if your voice shakes, you know, to be able to finally speak your truth and and and take up space as a woman. Yeah, you know, like no, I I don't want to do that. No, I'm not gonna do that. No, what do I think? What do I feel? I think that's wonderful. Thanks for sharing that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:01

Yeah. Well, and you you just said something about the the speaking our truth. I mean, that's even an interesting exploration because I'm finding more and more, you know, working with women that sometimes we don't even know what our truth is until it's like all of a sudden we've gotten, you know, deeper into our own bodies and our own awareness, and then we're able to connect with, oh, actually, this is what is happening underneath all of this. And I didn't know because we've been taught perhaps to quiet our voices or repress it, or we weren't allowed to ask for what we wanted, or you know, couldn't take up space. And so sometimes we kind of become our own worst. Um, I don't know if enemy is the right word, but it's it's you know, we just we start sort of blinding ourselves to what is actually true to keep the peace or not rock the boat. And so yeah. Yeah, yeah, so true.

SPEAKER_00 12:02

And do you find Aaron? So the conversation around power is uh has many facets to it. So I'm assuming too, you work with people, women, this whole idea of abuse of power. And and I would even say with that that tends to cloud what a boundary even is depending on someone's life experience, and it sounds like you help people access that in probably many ways, because the patriarchal system that we've been in is all about power, and and what are we without that? And also how do we begin to even move into our own power? And that's with voice, that's with taking up space, and so as you work with people, I'm assuming it's a process. I would love to think there's a quick snap and it's all done.

SPEAKER_01 13:11

Wouldn't that be great?

SPEAKER_00 13:12

Yes, it would. Yes, the magic wand or the magic snap. Yeah, um I'm I'm just feeling into that people would that are aware that they might not have access or even know what that means. How do you see that that that shows up in someone's body? Like I would think there's certain signs that people might recognize that you would be a good fit to work with if they're being challenged, maybe around power. And like I said, power has lots of angles to it.

SPEAKER_01 13:55

Yeah. Um, so many of the women that I have worked with tend to often they are either in leadership positions themselves or they have have, or they're in, you know, working collaborative collaboratively on a team or in some situation where they're working with people in authority. And that's where I see most of the issues come up with people in leadership. And um, quite often doesn't have to be just men, it can be women, but quite often it is with men in authority positions. That's it happens to be however it however it was for me, that was my path and also having uh male authorities in my life. But it tends to show up in power dynamics, so it's more they come and they put, you know, they potentially start sharing about experiences that they're having and um could be with a friend, family member, or boss or something like that. And so that's usually a signal for me that there's some sort of power dynamic happening. And so then there's a few different things that I mean, I look for. I mean, one is of course, you know, in their conversation when they're talking about that said power dynamic or said person, you know, what's happening in their body, what's happening with their voice. Um is there a particular situation or scene or something that they've experienced? And so I have a couple of different lenses that I look through. And one is is certainly through the body and the voice and um what comes up for them when they're in an interaction with this person. But we start to look at the layers of what I call tracking energy. And so it's tracking, well, let's let's go back into that scene and look at you know, what were the body sensations you had in this experience? Okay, you got triggered. So let's go to that moment and what were the body sensations you had? And so helping them to be able to track actual body sensations, and then we look at and you know, was there a particular emotion and tracking the emotional tone? And then sometimes tracking also inner dialogue. So sometimes there's inner dialogue, and that's usually a little more um like it's not as easy to always to access that, but even if there's an idea of what was happening in the dialogue, we can start to look at the pattern of what's happening in the body uh when they're in that particular dynamic. So um, yeah, I don't know if that answered your question. Was there was there more about the yeah?

SPEAKER_00 16:40

No, it does, it helps me because I think the identification of what the challenge might be. So say you're working with leaders, women who are stepping into leadership, that's happening more and more. For them and me, I'm also in that to begin to notice those little pieces when the system or the body gets triggered or activated. What you help them do is work through that and understand. That's what I'm hearing.

SPEAKER_01 17:12

Yeah, because we tend to have, and uh you know, there can be different languages. We can talk about it in a psychosomatic sense around the like armoring and the armor bands that can we can create in our in our bodies or get created over time, but there's also an energetic patterning that's associated with it. And so it and it's associated with sometimes with a dialogue, inner dialogue, thought loop, um, also uh a pattern in the body of like sensations, contraction, um, tightness. Uh you know, sometimes there's an emotion that's that's connected to it as well. Um and so we're we're tracking it, yeah. So we're tracking it in in that way. Um and I I think I was thinking about what you said about women stepping into leadership and you know what they're what they're looking for. The thing is, is I I'll often get women, it's like they want to just get through it and like, how can I get rid of this? And that is the that is the it's the and even for myself and my own healing journey of that slowing down and recognizing it's really never about getting rid of it. It's how much more attuned can we become to our bodies and how much more can we slow down where there have been times where I have witnessed myself do the same thing in an interaction with someone in authority, but I'm so much more aware of what's happening in my body. And so I start to look at like, oh, that is actual progress. And so it becomes more about a witnessing, observe, you know, being observant, you know, noticing, oh, I felt that, and and how to just be in relationship with it instead of going right to judgment, which was historically my thing. Oh my God, I just, you know, I didn't, I didn't say what I needed to say. I clammed up or I, you know, I was so judgmental of how I conducted myself instead of just recognizing, like getting curious of, oh, that's so interesting. I my whole body constricted and my my breath got really short and high, and my voice changed when I started talking. I started talking a little bit like this instead of this lower, more grounded, earthy woman, you know, I I would start getting really high pitched and like the little peeper pleaser good girl, as you had said, Marty, would come out. And um, yeah, and the other piece is and this might be a little bit more like down the line of working with someone, but I really believe, and this is part of some of the training that I've had with you know, teachers, is if I want to understand the power dynamics and things that I experience with people in authority, the perceived power dynamics, it's really important that I recognize my own power dynamics with people. So recognizing the ways in which I try to control my environment or I manipulate or I edit myself in order to get what I want instead of being really clear and direct. And that has been a journey I've been on for a very long time. And so there's a point in a journey with someone where we can get to that point where we can say, okay, let's actually look at our part in these in these things, and how can I, you know, look at what I do and just take responsibility for it and then um understand what you know on a deeper level, like what's happening in these relational dynamics.

SPEAKER_02 21:04

I love that because I do think ultimately when we can get there, it does begin with us. It doesn't feel good to think that right away, you know. And I love what you said about just knowing that's progress. I mean, I've seen that in my own life too, where I'm doing the same pattern, but then I'm like, but I'm aware of it, and that's massive to watch myself. I think it was Eckhart Tully calls it watching thinker, watching this dynamic playing out, but with mindfulness. And Christy and I have talked many times about the personal development world and how it's like, you know, just do it and all these pithy quotes. And it's like it to me, it's devoid of the journey, which you said for us that we'll, it's a lifelong journey that we'll be on. So thanks for sharing that. That's really important for people to hear.

SPEAKER_01 21:55

Yeah, absolutely. Well, I feel like the whole self help develop, you know, self development. development world too is honestly still on the cusp of that sort of patriarchal programming and it's a lot of like pushing through as opposed to like you know let's just yeah let's just push through and get to the thing and instead of actually what if we slow down and in more of this sort of this feminine approach and remember what does it actually mean to listen and listen to my body and be in relationship with my body and you know go at the pace of nature and you know it's it's a completely different paradigm in my experience I will say.

SPEAKER_00 22:40

I love it. Yeah well it's so counterintuitive to the culture that within the United States, let me just say that. Right true um but definitely here the value lies in productivity and sometimes the the fear around that can be um if I'm not being productive I'm worthless if I'm not being productive I'm you know not going to belong or there's all these different beliefs that we create and it sounds like Aaron you help to to find those pieces and the beliefs that's held in the nervous system and in the body and not push through them but acknowledge them.

SPEAKER_01 23:30

Maybe witness and sit with them like I it makes me think of a a mother archetype literally and we're talking about the feminine and the mother being the earth and how and even the seasons right it's so different than how our brains have been taught to move with our bodies and even um connecting with nature we're connecting and sounds like you help connect to the body which is again connecting to nature because we are that yes yeah I mean that's that's one of the biggest things for me is recognizing that our bodies are actually made of earth and so when we are choosing to listen and be in relationship with our bodies we're choosing to be in relationship with the earth you know our bodies are made of earth and of course they're made of cosmos and cosmic dust and all of the things and they're literally made of earth. And so it when I when I can look through that lens and remember that this tree outside my window I am no different from that tree. I'm just sort of made up in a different form but I'm a living breathing being just as this tree then I can start to then be more curious about what does that actually mean then to be in real be not just in relationship with my body but um with the earth itself and the feminine is you know the approach of the how I learned in feminine embodiment too and just in my own exploration is if I am also made of earth and I am also all of these elements and expressions of nature. So what is it like when I am expressing myself as a volcano love that what is it like when I'm expressing myself as a raging river or a soft rain or um you know a great storm or a song bird you know and so there becomes this whole palette and range of exploration in what we can actually embody and experience because I think we also get very um it gets very myopic in our culture about what does it mean to be not only a human being but what does it mean to be a woman what does it mean to be a man and and all of these constructs around what that means. And and so I love to bring in the exploration of of these different you know can be archetypes but also elements of nature and of how we get to express ourselves um and when we get to experience ourselves like oh I'm actually made up of water 98% water you know and people still wonder why it is that we're impacted by the full moons and I'm like but the full moon literally like the moon literally changes the tide in the ocean and the ocean makes up more of the planet than land I'm like how can we not deny that we're impacted so and I think that that is the relationship we're speaking to that has been I think so many of us are remembering you know learning how to reclaim in our in our lives because we've been taught to deny it in that deeper connection to earth in our bodies beautifully said I love that expression like a volcano that's so healthy. I resemble that what well right and it what's so beautiful about is I think it helps people especially I mean it could help men and women and I've seen I've witnessed men and women do this kind of embodiment work. But it I think because we can get so stuck in like ah especially if with there's a lot of belief systems around expressing anger but if I can connect with the element of volcano and I can like what is it like to be a volcano and I I was thinking about the volcano in Hawaii that just recently was erupting. I've seen some beautiful imagery of it it's like oh my God it's so it's so magnificent and I'm like oh I want to be a volcano but if I can feel like what if I embodied that what does it feel like if I have that gentle rumble in my belly and and I can start to just imagine like becoming a volcano and moving like one and then what would be a sound a volcano would make it it's not really separating but I it's it it just I think it helps us to get out of this idea of what anger's supposed to look like and be like and feel like and we get to it gives us a a different um you know lens and vessel if you will to to experiment with. And it's a lot of fun if we if we let ourselves just let go and you know explore that kind of embodiment.

SPEAKER_00 28:31

It's a great way and it creates a different kind of how I'm hearing that is it creates a different kind of safety factor because it's you're trying it on and what might it feel like I I love that Aaron that's such a good example of um a way to embody nature and and yourself at the same time in that context.

SPEAKER_01 28:55

I've seen some really amazing things happen in a room with like a group of women in this kind of embodied embodied experience. I have seen absolute magic happen. I think there is something very magical that happens when women come together too um there there is a kind of remembering that happens in that space and when we're all realizing that we're all feeling the same thing the fear of expressing ourselves and then we all recognize we're all thinking the same thing and then it's like no I really want to express my volcano you know and so then all of a sudden all this magic happens because there's so much permission in the space to be that to explore that to feel that to just be with what is and I think when we get to do that with others and really be be witnessed with each with each other there's so much healing that can happen. And so you do groups of women do you do them online and in person Erin I've done them online and in person and mostly in collaborations with other teachers that I've I've been working with for the last 10 years. Both are great I think what's nice about the um I think what's nice about the online is that especially if you're new to the work you get to be in the comfort of your own home and you know explore sounds and all the things and then ask questions and share, have people share and you get just an experience of what it's like to be in a group if if people haven't done it before. But also the in-person experience is just is really powerful you know to come together physically and um you know have have an experience of those practices in person and just there's just something about it that's really amazing. But I I I like both personally and having participated in all kinds of programs and I love to have both because sometimes I just like to be in the comfort of my own home and you know have practice with processing and expressing and making sounds especially when I was new to it and then get to come in person when I've had practice with a group of women. So I've done experiences where there's been say like a program and then a retreat you know maybe at the end so everyone gets to kind of know each other and then we get to do all these practices online and then we get to come together in person. So people've had a chance to kind of get to know each other. But I've also done both where we've just uh at a couple other teachers that I've taught with where we just you know did like a weekend retreat and experience yeah I would imagine you'd have in person is so powerful and that community which I think is really being called for again right now yeah is connection and literally connection in in person and connection online with that more of a heart space not just an intellectual space and that's what it sounds like you bring to the table. Yeah to create a space where we can begin to experience a felt sense of being in our bodies together you know and I think especially now I think you hit the nail on the head with I think there is a need for it. Um I I mean I've experienced it in my life too where there's just so much going on in the world and we're constantly distracted by our phones and then our work and on our computers and you know what does it actually mean again to come together and what does it mean to connect with each other and you know in a in a in a different way not by um you know the kind of usual hi how are you you know where are you from and what do you do because you know that's how we're used to relating and so that we have some sort of mental idea and story about somebody what does it actually mean to come and sit with someone and just simply be in their presence and be with whatever comes up whether it's discomfort or you know one person feels comfortable the other one doesn't but just being with what is and then what does it mean to um practice keeping the focus on my own body and what's happening in my body while I witness another woman sitting across from me like feeling the feelings I'm feeling while witnessing another woman and not leaving myself or not you know there's so much I mean there's so much happening in a moment you know that we miss and to have like that embodied connection with someone where you can just sit and listen with your whole body you know there's such and there's such profound healing that can happen in that without saying a word. There's so much that's being said and communicated without having to speak I think is what I'm what I'm saying. And I those are the the kinds of spaces that I have co-created with others and myself um those are the kind of spaces that I love creating uh because we get to know ourselves on a much deeper level you know than we're just sitting around a table and well what do you do for a living and how do you make your money and yeah so it's yeah yeah but I was thinking when you said that is it takes it out of because I think the patriarchy is what do you do for a living? How do you make your money that kind of thing and then to actually like sit there I'm gonna use the term ceremonially and really um you know listen to each other and that that's that's amazing and checking in with your body and I I think that takes time you know well and it puts the focus more on our presence yeah rather than um you know so much of my experience of patriarchal structures is about performing and I've and I've honestly also seen this in the embodiment realm which is why I stepped out of it and decided you know like I I need something deeper and I want to teach and lead things that are much more deeply connected to the intelligence of the body more somatic a more somatic approach if you will um because I think that women are often dealing with um in those patriarchal structures are often dealing with the male gaze and so learning how to be totally in relationship with our own bodies no matter what's happening in this in the space around us because I've seen continued to still see a lot of performance and also it can be it becomes very undetected I think because because we're so conditioned to perform in certain ways we don't always recognize necessarily that that's what's happening and we're not actually connecting with what's true. And so to continue to create spaces where we can just simply be women and just be with whatever is and understand that our presence is worth more than anything than what we do in the world, how productive we are what we said, what we didn't said what we you know we didn't say what we did or we didn't do but literally just the presence of who we are and my partner and I have this conversation often about like in just the world of like you know we all need to pay our rent and pay our bills and I remember we've had these conversations where he was just like why can't I just why can't we just be our who we are you know why can't I you know like if I'm I'm a good person I have a good heart I I have a lot of presence and why can't I just get paid for doing that and there's ways that I I suppose we can but I it's just when we look at how we continue to try to commodify everything you know because it just happens without us even knowing it because it's so in our in our conditioning of how can we just sit in this space together and and just see the beauty and the the value that we bring by simply being I love what you're saying because Christy and I in part part of the big part of this podcast was we in our each of our fields we saw these things like very performative and you're just like I mean I this is always my saying stick a fork and man so done you know you're just done watching that even in the healing world yeah there's performance and stuff and it's sort of oxymoronic.

SPEAKER_02 37:59

You know you're like wait a minute totally it's very annoying to me. It's exhausting it is yeah it is exhausting I understand that's part of the culture that we're in and the performance and even that appealing to the male gaze and I mean I I'm gonna be 64 in June I love getting older I love it I love that there's stuff that I just don't I always say it this way my bullshit meter exploded. So I'm just like can't do it not doing it don't care this is this is going whatever way it's gonna go for me I don't care what anybody else does I was like I just want to embody you know that in um for myself it's it's just like yeah I being in part like letting go of all that programming and you know it's impossible to be raised in this culture and not have that especially as a woman a hundred percent impossible so it's like waking up from the nightmare and being like yeah don't I really don't want to participate in that in the way I used to and not make yourself wrong for it but finding a better you know way out of it.

SPEAKER_01 39:20

Right. I mean it's like we weren't uh it's like coming into the world and saying well I didn't ask for this programming I didn't ask for these patriarchal structures damn it and this is what we're working with. And so how do we work with this in in the kindest way and most loving way with ourselves and how do we learn how to take responsibility for our part in the programming um well like you had said earlier Marty it starts with ourselves and so that's and I think for me like it's always been very important for me to be very transparent with people that I work with because I'm still on the journey myself and even though I may have a lot more awareness I am still navigating the insidious programming that we're all working with every day. And I'll have moments where I remember why I was walking with my partner we were just walking in the neighborhood and we're still newer in Salt Lake City you know and and we we walked by some guy I think he was putting out his trash and I walked by and I was like hey how are you and I literally was like we kept walking I'm like who is that you know like and he was like I I don't know like your voice just went up three notches and I'm like okay anywho you know like and and I'm like that is so weird but that just happened you know and and so I and and also I will say finding humor has been the best medicine on this journey for myself and yeah and then just walking in laughing and just like oh yeah I just did that that was there we go that's hilarious.

SPEAKER_02 41:03

There's the programming you know um but yeah it's uh yes yeah the humor's huge and I love that you say that I and I know Christy's the same way I'm super transparent with clients it's like I I'm on a journey I like I've always joke and say if you followed me around my house with a video camera there'd be days you're like she taps with doing what? Yeah because it's like human and I don't want to have to try and live up to this idea like I have it all together.

SPEAKER_01 41:38

And I think it's it is the journey and and I mean the people that I am attracted to the most now are like you said it's like transparent like oh this is a this is a journey my husband and I have said this many times we're in counseling together and I love our therapist because he's like oh this is what I'm doing and this is he talks so openly about the stuff that he struggles with in his partnership and it's like yeah hello it's very real and I think that that's the thing when we speak to the performative piece that's so important to acknowledge because and I've seen this a lot in leadership of there the the lack of transparency creates a lot of distortion for for people. I mean I was actually working with a client I've worked with her several years I I can't remember exactly what the context of the conversation was but I think I was sharing with her about my own experience with authority figures and how I got on this path of exploring power and you know and she was like really I've just always experienced you as this because she'd experienced me as a teacher in the embodiment realm and she's like you just always occur to me as very grounded and this and that. And I'm like well I am and you know I have my own stuff just like everybody else and I think it was so her body relaxed in such a different way recognizing and understanding that we're all in the same boat. Yes. And while I do have more maybe I just have more experience and maybe some you know I have training and I have experience working with people but I actually think that that's part of the gift that I can bring people is that I I'm very aware of my own stuff. And so I that's how I can actually serve others and help people because I am that aware of my own stuff. And I do spend pretty much every day tracking my own energy and tracking my part in things and um and we're all in it together. And I mean that's what I would like to see more of in leadership anyways is is accountability, is responsibility is you know it's so important to feel leadership in this world taking responsibility but uh imagine that imagine that what a different uh what a different situation we would be in but yeah and And we can dream. That is the thing. That is part of it. That is part of what I think we're all doing is dreaming a new dream. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:08

Well, and showing up exactly like what we're discussing. Showing up transparent as leaders and especially as women stepping into that.

SPEAKER_01 44:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:19

Um I was just thinking that's why Marty and I started this podcast was for that transparency and that there isn't a perfect path. It's not a straight path. It isn't you do A and you get B because there's so many variables that come in with that. Yeah. And I I love how you've articulated that, Erin. Yeah. Um I would love a part two to our podcast as well. Because there's other questions I want to ask you about um ceremony and what does that mean? And you know, how does that work? Because you bring such a variety to your work and to be able to share those gifts with people to see if it resonates with them. Because that's what we created the podcast for again, is to people have resources. And you I think you're a very valuable resource.

SPEAKER_02 45:17

Absolutely. And you're very articulate in how you express it. And then yeah, and we we definitely are very much like we just want to share other people's work because not every, you know, one thing is good for all. It's like help helping people find the thing that works for them the best, or you know, if it's a of course a combination of things is is really important.

SPEAKER_01 45:39

It's really oh, I agree, and I am a big fan of the weaving of the modalities, and I don't think that any one person can have the answer, or you know, I think it's so important, right? To to have different reflections and experiences to find the combination of things that works for someone in particular. Um I know what has, you know, works for me, and that's what I can speak to. But um, yeah, and it's such a yeah, I really appreciate the opportunity to come on here. And I love talking about this stuff because I'm a nerd about it, as I'm sure you guys are nerds about what you do. And so it's super fun, especially to get together with other women in leadership and um, you know, who are also healers in their own right.

SPEAKER_02 46:25

And women not in competition with each other. Yes, yeah, and that too.

SPEAKER_01 46:29

And honestly, that's a that is a huge piece of the coming together and working in groups with women that I have loved and that I'm will can, you know, continue to create more of because I think it's so important. We were taught to compete, and that's part of the the programming that we're speaking to.

SPEAKER_03 46:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:48

Learning how to come together and be allies for each other is so important. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:56

It is, and that helps heal that wound that has been in women for so long. It's referred to as many different things, but that is such a a true aspect of the competition is the years and years of conditioning. Of not feeling safe with other women. Right. Yeah, and not trusting. And um, I so appreciate Erin your your path and your commitment to yourself first and foremost. And then to be able to share those teachings with people. I'm so excited to to share you on the podcast, but also to share you with people because um I think it's so essential to have someone like you to refer to and to experience. Absolutely. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 47:48

Very much so.

SPEAKER_00 47:49

Yeah. And we'll share your website. On your website, uh, do you want to talk a little bit about Yeah, how people can get in touch with you? They can, yeah, and work with you.

SPEAKER_01 48:01

Yeah, definitely. So, yes, I do have a working website, um, although it'll probably continue to be in progress, but uh it's Aaron dash Kinney, E-R-I-N-Kinney, K-I-N-N-E-Y.com. And uh there's not much happening on Instagram right now, although I do I'm gonna be starting starting to post, especially for offerings and things that I'm offering. You can find me there. My handle is at queen Aaron Kinney. That's just as it sounds, er, I n k I N N E Y. Um, and then my email address is Aaron at Aaron Kinney.com. And feel free to email me. And then there's other ways to connect with me through the website. You can join my mailing list to find out about future offerings. And uh if you're interested in uh just finding out more, you're welcome to book a call through the website as well. I offer discovery calls and we can talk about like anything you want to talk about. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:03

That's awesome. And I'm I'm thinking too, because I'm I know there's people who listen that do groups, yeah. They could get in contact with you to set something like that up too. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 49:15

Oh, for like for group work or for that offer things. Yeah, I have I've I've done a lot of different things with people. I've I've you know I've worked collaboratively with collaboratively with people, bringing in uh, you know, like a cow ceremony to retreats and other people's events, you know, and and just kind of weave uh creation with them in that way. And then also I've come in to online programs or in-person events and led, you know, certain practices and um it's quite fun. I've done that with uh other women and things that they were creating and you know, found different ways to weave in things if people are looking for something a little different. So, yes, I'm available for that as well.

SPEAKER_00 49:59

So exciting. Yeah, thank you so much.

SPEAKER_02 50:02

So nice to get this time with you. Very nice. And we'll see you again. Yeah, we'll see you next time. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 50:08

Yeah, absolute pleasure. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_02 50:11

Thanks, Erin. Thanks, Erin.