Compassion Fatigue: When Caring Becomes Carrying

This episode is not about labeling people as emotional vampires. It is about examining an archetypal relationship in which one person continually draws on another person's emotional energy, attention, resources or problem-solving—and the other continually supplies it.

The difficult truth is that the Donor is not entirely innocent.

The Donor may genuinely be loving, empathetic and compassionate. But underneath the helping, there may also be a need to feel useful, indispensable, morally good or in control. Rescuing can become a way of avoiding our own discomfort when someone we love is struggling.

The relationship then develops an unspoken contract:

"You remain in need, and I will remain important."

Neither person consciously creates this agreement. But without awareness, both may continue reinforcing it.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome back, everyone, to the podcast No One is Perfect. Hi, Christy. I'm so happy to have you here with me today.

SPEAKER_00 0:08

Hi, Marty.

SPEAKER_01 0:09

And as always, Christy, we have some of our best conversations before we ever hit record. And the topic of today is really about this idea of um being needed all the time or the reciprocal, like say there's a vampire and there's a donor or the rescuer. You know, I have a PhD, honorary PhD in being a rescuer, even down to animals. And I always say I rescue because I wasn't rescued. But we've both talked about just in our own lives the the ways that you know we you just keep helping, keep putting out there, keep like, I'll take care of it for you, I'll fix it, I'll handle it. And I, you know, I like to call it flaming codependency at times. Like, I'm the flaming codependent. And there's arenas in my life where I've gotten way better. And then I've found whole new arenas to just, you know, like move into. And you know, recently we've both been through these experiences in our lives where it's kind of been awakening us to that energy in us that's like, I'll handle it, I'll take care of it, I'll fix it. You know, the cost of being needed, the exhaustion of being needed. I find myself saying that to all seven of my animals. I do not need to be needed again by anyone. Like they all they're all like, can I just have my kipple? Yes, but I think it's a a a great topic to talk about, which whichever side you're on, and maybe you kind of vacillate between them depending on relationships. I would say I know predominantly me, I'm a rescuer 95% of the time. And it's you know, Christy, I was saying my husband compares me to Antonio Banderas's character in track, puss in boots, uh landless, take care of it, don't do it. And you know, recently some a number of things have happened that have really made me just realize how easy it is for me to focus on other people and and then like, but Mart, what's happening for you? Like, what are you experiencing? You're thinking a lot about what's going on with them, and oh, how things could be better for them, but what's getting triggered in me? And that's a question I've really been paying attention to and have a tapping session and plus for myself. And I just I do believe things are there to help us, um, but it doesn't always feel that way. So we just both decided this is a great topic to talk about because we always, you know, when when we're both going through something, it seems to be the richest material because you're in the thick of it.

SPEAKER_00 3:06

Oh, so true. Um in my in my world, I have studied archetypes with Carolyn Mays for 30 years. And for me, my how my brain works, it helps me to map a pattern. Um Carolyn teaches that archetypes are neutral, they're patterns of energy. And we all understand what a vampire is. If I say vampire, we think of a vampire sucking blood. Yes. And what I've learned through the years of especially about myself is the the patterning of the vampire is a vampire needs a donor to suck the blood. And my patterning has been to say, here, take as much as you need. That'll make me feel better. Because so much of my and I say in the past my values has have lied in giving. Oh god. And also rescuing for sure. I mean, I I don't know how many times I can tell you. My I've heard my husband say, Who are you rescuing today? Oh and I'm like, What? Do I do that? Yeah, and there's a stare of like, hmm. But but what I what I've noticed this week is I had I've definitely been going into the pattern of donor again. Of of I would say rescuing for sure. And what I noticed when I was in it, because this is how my brain maps it, is in the archetypal pattern, if you can recognize the pattern, your chances of getting out of it go up. Yeah. So the pattern for me was I was really pissed at this person for not doing what I thought they should. Because I had offered all of this help, all of these ideas, and she's like, yeah. And and and and her, you know, there's all this chaos, and I'm like, why won't she do what I think would be best? Now I went through this whole thing, and then I remember calling you. I'm like, Marty, I'm so pissed. I could feel my resentment, which is also a sign that I'm in the shadow aspect of codependency. Such a good thing to say, yeah. And I believe that speaking out my shame, because I totally had shame that I feel like I was being such a psycho bitch and asshole, because I was pissed that she wasn't doing what I thought. And that was the key to me. And speaking it out to you really helped me go, okay, I'm neglecting myself. And she doesn't have to do what I want her to do. Right. And it's like, what and I've been here before, and you've been here before, and I really bring a lot of compassion to the pattern as well. And I would say my practice of personal responsibility to go, okay. This is on you, Christy. Let's let's let's settle in and talk to someone that isn't in your brain, telling you all the things that your brain is telling you. So we can move in and out of that without more judgment and shame around the pattern.

SPEAKER_01 6:35

Yeah. It's it's so huge, Christy. I mean, it's that's why I mean, I think we're always evolving, always learning if we're open to it. And that idea of like, what can I learn from this? That's a question I've slowly started to ask myself because I feel the judgment go down. Like, what am I doing again? And oh my God, and like like the same thing. They're not listening to me, and oh my god, I know this would be so much better for them. And then you're just like, Mart. They're gonna do what they're gonna do. And what's like, what do I think? What do I feel? What's happening for me? I also think of it this way, Christy. It's an incredibly awesome distraction from self. So true, Marty. What's going on with you? Like, you know, read the room. Did you see this lip curl up? And oh my god, that eyebrow went up, and what does that mean? And like, oh my god, you know, it's like, you know, and I mean, I see you know the rescue world, I see you this human components. I know, I know dogs and cats have feelings. I 100% know that absolutely probably, maybe not to the degree that I think they might, you know, that they're thinking things that I and my friend who I do, the rescue is she goes, Well, unless they have a recording inside the dog's head or cat's head, I'm not sure that's what they're thinking.

SPEAKER_00 7:59

That's good, that's good reflection, Marty. Yeah, right, right, yeah, yeah. Well, and it creates, you had said this the other day, compassion fatigue. Oh, God. Which I love that phrase. Yep. And how am I participating in that? Because you can't blame that on the other person, right?

SPEAKER_01 8:20

That that's the thing, is like to catch to catch ourselves, to catch myself. And I'm like, Mark, I mean, I know I was wired from childhood to scan the room, to be hyper-vigilant, to pay way more attention to everyone else than to myself, because that's how I survived. Yeah, and then when I found tapping and was like, oh wow, I can actually really feel my feelings and not really be afraid of my feelings. But it's just so easy to kind of fall back in that pattern and um, you know, seeing that in myself too, big time. And okay, what's the saying? And I don't really particularly care for the saying, but it's the best I have right now. New level, new devil. You know, a deeper layer, there's more, you know, the nuances. And that's why I think, you know, we're always it's just always good to remember forever until we're six feet under or our ashes are spread across someplace, or we're eaten by a polar bear or whatever, you know, we're gonna be working on it, you know.

SPEAKER_00 9:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:29

Um, so yeah, to like and really to our listeners to think about that, you know, um, and it you may be completely unaware of it if you're like I I know something's going on for me when I'm like talking to my cats. I can't be needed one more time. And I'm like, Mark, they just want their little treats. That's it. They're just here. Can I have my treats? So it's like, Mark, there's an inside thing going on here you need to address.

SPEAKER_00 9:58

Well, I I think that's a good example, and to recognize the looping that happens. And I think bringing awareness to a pattern is the only way to shift it. Yes. And this week, and it's happened before, I notice for me when I start collecting resentment and I want them to change, and I go through all the list of the things I've done, that is my pattern on me. And that's when we can, I wouldn't say heal or change it, but we shift out of that pattern into something else so we don't contract, our energy doesn't contract.

SPEAKER_01 10:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:44

Like you said, and bringing compassion to it, because I think relationships are very complex. Oh my god. And and if you want to have long-term relationships, you're going to have things like this come up. And can you have a conversation about it? And sometimes that's a no.

SPEAKER_01 11:07

That is true and that's okay too. It is, it's so true because not everyone can you talk to, and like I said, I'll give it a shot. My my preference is to always get to resolve, but when I'm done, and I'm done, is when I know they're not even trying to meet me halfway. So it's like then you just have to be done with it. You might have grief and all that stuff that you have to deal with, but it's like, okay, I'm out. Yeah. Read you loud and clear.

SPEAKER_00 11:39

Yeah. Well, yeah, and that I think that takes practice and awareness. To step out and yeah, but sometimes they are so difficult to recognize until you're swimming in mud again.

SPEAKER_01 11:54

It's so true. I and I think of it this way too, Chrissy. It's a very powerful place to be, to be the, like, let's call it the donor, like the be the one that's needed. It's a very powerful place to be. If we don't to the ego, that's a very powerful place to be. If we don't like stay on top of that or keep it in check, or I mean, I see that in the rescue world. There, like, even like in the personal development, which was kind of why this whole podcast was born. You know, you there's really good people, and there's people working with people, and you're like, how's that happening? Yeah. And I see that in the rescue world too, where I'm like, whoa. You know, so it doesn't matter what field it is, there's things that you're like, oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 12:52

Yeah. Yeah, which can be really challenging because I think our perception of what how people are, and we assume people are like us, which is not true. They don't see through our same lens. Um, that can be a massive reality check.

SPEAKER_01 13:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:10

It really can be, and it can be very challenging in that and I this is part of why I love psychosomatics so much is understanding how someone else may be processing or holding on to emotions or not able to access emotions. Yeah. Because we all have life happen. Yes. And I don't I think that as we learn how to understand who we are, it makes it a lot easier to allow other people to be them without needing to rescue them or even like the pattern of someone staying in this perpetual, I'm gonna say victim archetype of nothing ever works for me. And sometimes needing to be in crisis to get attention. Is that something that we could bring awareness to as we shift out of these patterns? It like it's like sticky glue that wraps around us and pulls us right back. Absolutely. Yeah, and understanding our our nervous system and how we ebb and flow in relationships. Relationships is the only place to learn that. It's not learned in a book.

SPEAKER_01 14:30

It's so true. And I mean, you talk about like boot camp relationship. I mean, I think about that, you know, with my husband and I, you could just hit 27 years together. Yes. Liam and I, it's 25 years together. We'll be 25 years married next year. It's it's like, whoa, like there's so much grist for the mill. Like, there's so much we've been through, so much that, you know, has been like, whoa. And then there's been that, wow, look at the learning of that. And I was I wanted to kind of go back to that idea of the person, you know, I hear a lot of talk of that online and stuff too. They're such a victim and such a victim, and there's all this massive judgment about it. Yeah. And yet that is still a trauma response. Yeah. And staying in that victim mentality, their kid is definitely running their show. And in the in the tapping world, again, we would call it secondary gain. And what that means is the reason to stay the same is greater than the reason to change. Yeah. And it's always about protection. Even the most victimized person that is so deeply rooted in victim, still in where they're at in that time frame is it's not safe to change. This is known. This is, you know, like you said, this is where what if I don't get the attention? Maybe it's the only way that person ever got attention was, you know, to be in crisis. So there's all kinds of reasons behind it. And as frustrating as it can be to any of us, it's that, you know, that whole idea detach with love. Well, that takes time. At first, it's I'm gonna detach, but I'm pissed off, and then I'm gonna work on my compassion around that and um, you know, practice that detachment, which is like, I hear ya, you know, but not go immediately into problem solve. The thing I I've also heard this term too, you end up carrying the emotional weight for them. That really landed for me when I was like, Oh, why do I feel so exhausted? Because that codependency is like, I take it on as if it's mine, yeah. And I'm like, it's not mine, they're just sharing it with me, but it's that separation to be like, that's theirs. It's how am I gonna respond to that?

SPEAKER_00 17:05

Yeah, and that is uh like doing bicep curls. Oh my god, right? It is a muscle that has to be used, I believe. And even because it I would say the trauma response is the same in both people the one who feels victimized and the one who's rescuing. I think it's the same, it just looks different.

SPEAKER_01 17:31

Yeah, opposite ends of the same spectrum.

SPEAKER_00 17:34

Yeah, yeah. And I think if we can offer that as awareness that to take blame out of it, because there's enough blame, we don't need to add more blame.

SPEAKER_01 17:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:47

And to take responsibility for for your feelings, for my feelings, and move from that place versus the projection onto the other person would be really helpful because life sometimes does create that much stress that you feel like nothing ever is going to change.

SPEAKER_01 18:07

It's so true. It's so true. And and I even to that point, Christy, it's the self-talk, and that is such a practice for me. Like, you know, when I catch myself going down the rabbit hole and I call it the bully in the brain, like it's taken over and it's catastrophizing a potato chip, and it's like anything, it catastrophizes, and then it's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, wait. You know, hmm, what if, and I love the what if statements because they're so bridging. What if it's much better than you think? What if it doesn't have to be this way at all? What if that has nothing to do with it? What if it really is going to be okay? Because that eases the brain into more believability rather than just this rock solid affirmation. And I mean, I've seen it in my life in the best possible way when I have moments of hopelessness, and all of a sudden, I mean, I found this quote, which I talked about hold on to hope, put your trust in God, whatever you want to call it, He will make a way. She, eat, it will make a way. And the one day I read that, I was like, oh, that's exactly what I needed to hear. And then within an hour, I got a solution. And it was like just, I often think, regardless of what anybody believes spiritually, to me, the crises and the suffering are there to all for me personally to always draw me back to strengthen that connection with spirit.

SPEAKER_00 19:33

Yep. I agree with you, Marty, in the surrender piece, yeah. Which that word creates so many different activations. It it used to a lot more in me. Yeah. Um, but once I understood the reciprocity of energy and that we surrender our attachments, we surrender what we think we know. We surrender the need to be right. And it's very intellectual, and then we surrender it and then we take a deep breath and we receive, just like what you had said. We receive in our surrender and letting go of resistance and our coping mechanisms and all of these ways that we contain to stay safe. There is no way for I think repair if we have so much resistance around ourselves that we can't, no one can come in to give any feedback.

SPEAKER_01 20:31

Right.

SPEAKER_00 20:32

Yeah. Meaning spirit.

SPEAKER_01 20:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:35

Right, let alone another human being. Absolutely. Um, so that that surrender and the even the breath cycle of I surrender on the outbreath and I receive on the in-breath keeps it very tangible. And you're only surrendering in that moment. It's not your whole life. No, it's the moment you're in and the attachment and the loop in your brain that you're in. So the bridging statements I love because what if I do surrender and then everything's okay? What if I do surrender this pattern and you know something else comes in? So I'm excited to see what comes through you with our tapping today, Marty, because this is so real and it happens to everyone. Yeah. No one's immune from this on either side of the fence. It's it's relationships.

SPEAKER_01 21:23

Yeah. Absolutely. We're just doing our work in them in the relationship. Exactly. I mean, like you said, that's that's the Coliseum, relationships. That is the Coliseum, and the gladiators are in there, and the lions are coming out, and you're like, okay, here we go.

SPEAKER_00 21:42

So true. So true. And I love that we have some tools that we can, you know, strap on us or pull out when we need them because this life does happen to us sometimes.

SPEAKER_01 21:55

Oh Lord.

SPEAKER_00 21:57

And yeah. More resources we can have at our fingertips, the better.

SPEAKER_01 22:03

Yes, literally.

SPEAKER_00 22:05

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 22:06

That's right. Yes, right. Good, Marty. All right. So let's just do some what if tapping because I really um, and we're just gonna go right to the eyebrow with this. So, and I'm just gonna do one hand just for ease of view and all that. So go to the eyebrow. What if everything really is here to help me? What if even this thing, this person that's so challenging for me, is really there to help me, damn it? What if they're meant to help awaken me? What if they're here to help me see what I need to see? To release more and to move forward in a healthier way. What if it really is possible? No matter how dark it can seem, that I'm meant to learn from this experience in the best possible way. And what if a pattern that keeps repeating doesn't mean I'm broken or damaged goods? It just means that I'm wounded. And I'm meant to see the wounds to help heal them. Life is always going to be moving me. And what if I get to choose whether it moves me closer to healing or further away? And what if I can stay committed to my personal development? Reminding myself that this is here to help me? What if it really is okay? What if it's okay to feel frustrated? To feel enraged, to feel hurt and sad? What if every emotion is there to help me? And it's all about awakening to greater emotional freedom and emotional fitness. And this person that I can rail against is very likely one of my greatest teachers. And I may not like to admit that in the moment, and that's okay too. Because it all can give me insights into myself and help me learn and grow from each and every experience over time. And there's no expiration date on any of this. What if I'm meant to be growing and learning? And that's seldom ever linear. It shows up in many different forms, many different ways. And what if it really all is part of my journey and here to help me?

SPEAKER_00 27:14

And I will add to that to ask you to put your hand on your heart and one on your belly, just very consciously in your mind's eye, connecting to your heart space, telling all of those parts of you, of me, that create this pattern of either rescuing or needing to be rescued, that little child, because that's where most of that all comes from, that all parts are welcome in me without shame and without judgment, and that we're not going to isolate because this pattern came. But to reach out and today, if you're listening to this, to tell this body and all those parts thank you. Because that's a resource. Thank you for showing up without running away and shutting down that this is the only way through is to be present with what it is, regardless of the pattern, and to know that everyone has a pattern, including me, including you. And we're just we're here to work through those and accept the parts of us because that to me is the inner relationship that we cultivate so we create safety internally more than externally. About and that to me, Marty, is the true waking up to that sovereign self, to the adult self that I can take care of me, I do have my back, and I'll find a way. For me, thank you to Spirit, thank you to source for helping me see what that part was within me.

SPEAKER_01 29:08

Right.

SPEAKER_00 29:08

That's the only way we can shift it.

SPEAKER_01 29:10

So yes, that was beautiful. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Works in progress always. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 29:20

We keep showing up and yeah, hopefully expand ourselves more the contract, and know that that's part of being human.

SPEAKER_01 29:30

Yeah. Well, thanks everyone for being here with us. If you like this, share it with your friends. We uh we're very excited to it's just enjoyable to do this and to share our experience with others. So see you next time. Thanks, Marty.