Episode 7: Leading Through Change in a Scaling Tech Business

Change isn’t something organisations prepare for once - it’s something they navigate every day.

In the latest episode of A Better Way: The Workforce Solutions Podcast, host Darren Topping is joined by Ali Cowan, Chief People Officer at AutoRec, to explore what it really takes to lead people, build capability, and scale successfully in a fast-growing tech environment.

From workforce transformation and evolving skills to the realities of scaling teams without losing culture or innovation - this episode offers practical insight for leaders managing growth and uncertainty.

 - Why continuous learning is becoming a business necessity
 - The risks of scaling too quickly without clear workforce strategy
 - How communication, adaptability and mentorship shape effective leadership
 - What organisations must do today to prepare their workforce for tomorrow

If you’re leading change, growing a business, or rethinking talent strategy - this conversation is worth your time

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome back to A Better Way, the Workforce Solutions podcast brought to you by Guiding Global. I'm really pleased today to be joined by Ali Cowan, Chief People Officer of Autorec, where we're going to talk all about navigating change, leadership, and scale in a tech business. Ali, thank you so much for joining me. I was really desperate to get you on. Would you mind telling our audience a little bit about what led you into your current role, your background, and a little bit about your journey?

SPEAKER_01 0:25

Of course. Well, thanks very much for having me, Darren. Really great to be here. How did I get to where I am today? That's a question I quite often ask people when I'm interviewing them, always interested to hear that.

SPEAKER_00 0:35

You're not being interviewed for a job at all.

SPEAKER_01 0:37

Well, just in case. But I guess I'd love to say I'd plan to get to where I am today, but it was never really planned. I think when I reflect back, I was always very driven by wanting to achieve financial independence and certainly to be in control of my own destiny. What that really looked like, I couldn't have told you at the time. There was limited career advice around for somebody like me back in the day. And really the advice at the time when I was leaving school, didn't go to uni, was either get a job whereby you know you're learning a trade, or go to work into retail, or you know, maybe a secretarial job. So my first job ended up, I ended up working in the typing pool for a lawyer's insurance broker. And during that time I took on some additional responsibilities for what was known then as the personnel manager. And I guess that's really where my HR journey began. And then after that, I then moved into various different HR administrator roles, advisor roles, and I gained knowledge working around all of the various different aspects of HR. So whether that was in comp and bends, learning and development, recruitment, I kind of did that whole gamut. I then got kind of stuck in HR actually in the company I was at. There was limited opportunity to move to the next level from an advisor into a manager role. So I did some leadership training and then I actually moved out of HR for a while. And I moved into for my SINS, I wanted to manage a team, but I ended up managing the facilities team, which was interesting. I also did a sales operations role for a short time. And then I ended up doing a role looking after consumer care functions, so product complaints and inquiries and sort of protecting brand reputation. So that was really interesting, not only to gain leadership experience, but also experiencing HR from the other side. So has been really valuable, I think, when I sort of look back at that, you know, having HR done to you. So I then moved back into HR and specialised in recruitment for quite a period of time. And I was doing that on a UK basis for a UK headquartered company. And then I thought, well, I think I might be alright at this. Um I'm gonna see if I can sort of branch out a little bit and move into an international role. So I picked up recruitment on an international basis for a payments company. We had one of the members of the team who was an HR business partner go on maternity leave, and I was asked to, alongside my recruitment role, to um pick up the responsibilities of that HR business partner. I had a brilliant sponsor and boss at the time that kind of encouraged me to do that. And I think that was the pivotal point that got me to where I am today. So really um having that opportunity, being encouraged a little bit and supported to take on a much wider remit kind of got me to where I am today. And since that time, I've worked for large international organizations, and then I decided I'd like to be a bit of a bigger fish in a smaller pond. And since then I've been working with much smaller organizations and having an absolute ball over the last few years working for them, mainly privately held organizations, helping them grow and scale. So very long-winded way of getting to where I am, but um quite a long journey.

SPEAKER_00 4:13

I think I know the answer, but did that has that time outside of HR working in those other functions helped you now? It might not have felt like it at the time, but I imagine it probably helped shape the kind of leader that you are today, thinking back to how you manage different situations in those times and different roles and things like that.

SPEAKER_01 4:31

Yeah, I think absolutely it has. I think certainly being, as I said earlier, on the receiving end of HR policies and practices, and you know, I think we can, or certainly in the past, have maybe had a tendency to sort of write policy and procedure in a kind of closed device. Yes. So very much around you know, engagement, understanding what that feels like on the other side. Certainly has helped me in that respect. You know, I remember this one instance when I was managing recruitment and um I was centralizing recruitment, it was at the you know, the early stages of internet recruitment, yeah, yeah, yeah, um, online and all of that sort of stuff, and I was going to change the way we were going to hire all the drivers in our company. Yeah. So I disappeared off up to the Midlands to a distribution centre, and I sat there with the drivers and the depot managers around the table to explain how this woman from the head office was going to change the way they did recruitment. The internet was the way forward. We were going to do all online advertising, I was going to manage everything centrally. And of course, I'd never consulted, I'd never discussed, I'd never really listened to their concerns. So that was a massive lesson learned for me around, you know, information, consultations, seeking to understand, and I really try to now use that, you know, in terms of the way that I operate these days.

SPEAKER_00 5:49

Yeah, put yourself back in people's shoes. Don't try and not that you ever would, but you know, don't make decisions in like an ivory tower kind of thing. No, exactly that. Um, you're quite a humble person, Ali. So I'll Ali, so I'll call you. Well, I'll say that you are known for transformation in the smaller agile companies you work in, you're known for for going into those scaling companies. What experiences in your career have um uh impacted your approach to leadership and and transformation? What, apart from your your lorry drivers in the depot, what other experiences have you had that are kind of continue to influence how you how you lead from a HR standpoint today?

SPEAKER_01 6:27

Yeah, it's a really difficult question. You know, I kind of think about that quite a lot. And um I'm the big sister in our family, right? So I don't know whether that's just an inherent part of being the eldest. Yeah, but my siblings always used to say to me, Oh, you always take over, you always take over everything. So I don't know if it's my sort of natural stance or whether it's the big sister thing. I don't know. Um, and I always used to end up having to be the narrator in the school play or something. So I don't know whether there's just I don't know, something in me naturally that people I'm not sure. You know, experiences, absolutely. So a lot of observations for sure. I have worked in businesses that have been cost constraint and you've got to do less, yeah, or sorry, more with less. Um so you know, you try to always look for efficient ways of doing things. So I think probably by the nature of some of the organizations and types of businesses that I've worked in to survive.

SPEAKER_00 7:21

You used to being quite pragmatic then with like your decision making because of that.

SPEAKER_01 7:25

I think absolutely you have to be. Yeah. Yeah, you absolutely have to be. I've been in situations whereby um I can't personally stand inefficiency. I mean, I know that's probably quite frustrating for uh certainly people that I you can't just go along with the tide if you think it's I can't know. I'm I'm actually a bit of a nightmare to live with at home. So to my partner, I'm always looking for better ways of doing things or being more efficient, or you know, actually if you were to see my spice drawer at home, just to be efficient, everything's all organized. You can just be more, you know, yeah. So I think there's just something in me I like to try to be as make best use of my time, organised. Um, but that said, I always, you know, I'm always prepared for the unprepared.

SPEAKER_00 8:07

So well, that leads me on to my next question, really. In in a in a world that is rapidly changing all the time, none more so than this year and planning for next year, what are, you know, what are the biggest challenges you're addressing today when you can't always be organizing ahead of things because it changes all the time?

SPEAKER_01 8:25

Yeah, I'm gonna, I didn't want to use the AI word, but I'm gonna use the AI word. It's gonna have to be a conversation. Yeah. I mean, obviously, everybody's talking about it. But I think really around it's about workforce transformation and skills evolution, really. So really understanding how evolution, evolution of skills is gonna reshape people's roles. That's one thing that's constantly on my mind in the role that I do. You know, and then how do you build um those longer-term talent strategies really to support that? Um, and one of the things I'm really struggling with, not struggling with, but really thinking about right now in terms of where I'm at, how do we build continuous learning? So it's not a one-and-done or you know, go on a training, whatever, how do we embed continuous learning as part of the organization because things are moving so fast and so quickly? So that's that's uh a real challenge and something that I'm sort of thinking about at the moment in this rapidly changing environment.

SPEAKER_00 9:25

How do you not how you approach it, because that's a very big question, but do you just kind of have to accept that even though you're really organized and like things to be really efficient, that some things can't be organized and efficient because they come at you quickly. Do you just kind of have to accept that bit of flexibility in your in your day?

SPEAKER_01 9:43

Definitely, yeah. So, yes, I really like to be planned, I really like to be organized. I always say to my team, I don't, you know, no surprises.

SPEAKER_00 9:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:50

But that's life. You can't avoid that, right? And then particularly in a fast-paced scaling organization, there's gonna be twists and turns at every corner. So you absolutely have to be adaptable. I always kind of think of, I don't know whether you ski, but I always kind of think about, you know, when you go down a black run, then you're just like you're never really quite sure what you're gonna, you know, okay, you're standing there, you're standing right, I'm gonna go for it. And you kind of have to then navigate what comes along the way. So I kind of feel a little bit to that. Some days I'm going down a black run and um I might hit a mogul or two, or but um, yeah, I think as planned as you can be, but you can't plan for everything, and you have to be adaptable.

SPEAKER_00 10:28

Something you mentioned um just before that that really resonated with me is and a lot of my clients are sick of me saying this to them at the minute, is around that um career-long learning. So in 2019, 2020-ish, we did a bit of research into like learning and development teams and stuff like that. And if you remember, when the pandemic hit, a lot of our LD teams have completely let go, people really scaled back on training. Now I think every single one of our clients, every single company I go and speak to is they're really doubling down on new learning platforms, new learning teams, because I think they acknowledge that in the world we're in, people are going to change jobs potentially every two or three years because things are adapting so quick. So I think for anyone that is that is watching, that is a key development is to make sure you've got that kind of capability in place.

SPEAKER_01 11:15

Yes, I totally agree with that. We're seeing a lot of that as well through a lot of our feedback mechanisms. You know, people want career development, they want to see that progression, they want, you know, we just talked about it already, a constantly changing skills, evolution, and environment. So you've got to keep up with the times, and and I'm in exactly that same place with where we are at the moment. We don't have a dedicated LD function. Um, but it's absolutely critical for our business to continue to be successful. That, you know, we keep up skilling and supporting our people with their career development and you know to make us still, you know, be the forefront of what we do. So yeah, really important.

SPEAKER_00 11:53

One of the fastest growing roles in this country at the moment is um an entrepreneur. Um we're seeing that fluidity all the time. When you um go into the the scale-up companies that you've been known for working within recently, how do you bring um that professionalism, that fairness without stifling and stopping the innovation that they're known for? Because that's a fine balancing act, I imagine.

SPEAKER_01 12:17

Yeah, it's it's really tough. And I've, you know, I've I've learned from experience through that, I have to say. I think for me, um, you know, kind of what I've learned along the way, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater for sure. But I think you have to recognise that perhaps uh the founding members of the business might not necessarily have the skills or the experience to then take the business to the next level. So, you know, bringing a bit of diversity, bringing some people that, you know, can help with that journey, they've got some experience of that and can maybe recognise some of the challenges that perhaps the founders might not have had before. I think the other thing for me is really um don't go in too heavy with rules, right? Put a framework in place, put guidance in place.

SPEAKER_00 13:04

You don't want to just put people off too quick. Absolutely come in with a rule book.

SPEAKER_01 13:08

Yeah, they want to work for an entrepreneurial organization, um, you know, and too many rules stifle innovation, right? And you don't want that. But I think what you do have to do is ensure that, you know, there's a framework. What are the non-negotiables? So, you know, is it our values? Is it our way of decision making? Um, so you know, be clear about what the non-negotiables are, but then a framework around everything else, because as I say, otherwise you'll stifle innovation. People that have had free reign, that have enjoyed working in that culture and that environment, they'll be turned off. So it's striking that balance.

SPEAKER_00 13:40

Yeah, absolutely. And are there any kind of um common, not mistakes, but common kind of um pitfalls that you've seen these kind of scaling organizations go through that you know you've helped avoid, or something like that? Are there kind of common challenges that you see them um walk into in your world?

SPEAKER_01 13:59

A couple of things that immediately spring to mind. I would guess panic hiring is one thing. So, oh my god, we're scaling up, we've got to get the people on board without really thinking through what is it we need. Uh, you know, you go through a whole raft of hiring, uh, haven't really thought through what the roles and responsibilities are, and then not fully onboarding those people. That's that can happen. Expecting what we've always done to still work and not listening to other other people.

SPEAKER_00 14:27

You're gonna change, aren't you, as a business all the way through. I was sat at dinner with um someone who worked at Netflix, they don't anymore, but they had done, and they grew like rapidly, and they had this ethos when they were like a smaller company of they would rather, they would want the five best software engineers in the world, and they might need a team of 20, but they were they were like, we want a game players only, and if that means these five have to work really hard, then so be it. Um, we only want the right people, and then if you try and do that other business of a hundred people, it's hard. But imagine doing that when it gets to 20,000 and stuff, you you know, the the problems change and your kind of ethos has to change with it, I imagine.

SPEAKER_01 15:06

Yeah, very much so. I think the other really important thing is around being consistent. So, you know, I think entrepreneurial organizations kind of make their own rules up as they go along, and so as you scale, you know, you really need to be consistent with you know how you reward people, how you recognize people, and not, you know, not have favouritism at all. I think that's uh, you know, so consistency is really important. And I think openness of communication, you know, really around, you know, what are the goals of the organization, what is the strategy, where are the challenges? So, really open communication, I think transparency, um, fairness and consistency is really important.

SPEAKER_00 15:45

Whilst we're talking on the subject of change, what personal traits do you think are um, well, actually, what personal traits do you have that make you particularly good at managing change, managing that ambiguity, uh, versus what kind of um personal traits do you kind of look for, or what soft skills do you look for in people to join a team where there's gonna be a lot of change?

SPEAKER_01 16:09

I think we already talked about it a little bit earlier, so certainly being adaptable.

SPEAKER_00 16:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:13

You know, you absolutely have to be adaptable because you know, things do change constantly.

SPEAKER_00 16:18

Can you spot that in someone when you're interviewing them, do you think?

SPEAKER_01 16:21

Or can I spot that? Gosh.

SPEAKER_00 16:24

Or is it like a you know, a set of questions you ask them?

SPEAKER_01 16:28

Well, I always uh like to understand why people have taken the decisions that they have. Yeah. Just through kind of a natural conversation around career choices that people might have made, decisions that they've taken, what is they're looking for, environments that they like to work in, you can get a sense of you know, whether or not people really enjoy that kind of environment. So there's not particularly a set of questions, it's just really about how people make choices and how they take their decisions and the types of environments that they like to work in. So, you know, somebody that's typically been in the same job for you know X amount of years in one company, there's nothing wrong with that. But you know, they obviously they like certain ways of doing things and you know, perhaps like a certain uh structure.

SPEAKER_00 17:13

Yeah, yeah. So I'm not getting a job. I've I've been here 17 years, so I'm not getting past I'm not getting past the door to come and come and work in one of your teams.

SPEAKER_01 17:21

No, you know what, and in some roles it's absolutely essential that people are like that, but um, it just gives me a sense of you know, somebody's personality, character, what it is that drives them.

SPEAKER_00 17:31

So what do you think it is within your personal traits ally that makes you good at kind of navigating that change and uncertainty and transformation? Is it that um how organized you are, perhaps? Is it that you've got that foundation underneath that, or is it something else do you think?

SPEAKER_01 17:47

I think it's a number of things. I mean, a natural curiosity, right? How does a business operate? How do we make money? How are we successful? And then what can I do to help to um then support that in the function that I'm in? I I think for me, one of the things, a trait I think is really important is around emotional resilience. So, you know, staying positive in the light of setbacks, you know, um managing stress constructively, there is kind of such a to do that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:21

You've got to be you've got to have that ability, I think, to be able to kind of leave it behind you a little bit. Although it always is with you a little bit, you can't, you can worry yourself overly, can't you? I imagine.

SPEAKER_01 18:30

Yes. And I think you know how that then comes across to others. So, you know, you may swan-like on the surface, you know, underneath paddling, you know, to sort of keep up or manage that underneath. But I think it's really important that you find a way to sort of manage that and portray that outwardly because I think that's very important for others to be able to see that. You know, if you're panicking, everybody else is gonna start panicking.

SPEAKER_00 18:53

Yeah. And speaking of others, how do you I mean it might not be a a blueprint, but how do you bring people with you when you're going through change? You know, the the teams of people you've got the organ, I mean, it's your role to bring the organization as a whole. How how do you do that? How do you bring them with you when you're changing models or the structure's gonna change or anything like that? Is there something or are there certain techniques that you would follow?

SPEAKER_01 19:16

I mean, I always think it's around communication, you know, and I and no matter whether it's around change or, you know, most things to do with people, it's for me, I almost say have the com have the conversation, you know. There might be a policy or a procedure or a way of doing things, but actually, I don't care if you do speak to people. So I think for me it's very much around um certainly open and transparent communication because if people don't know, they make stuff up, right? And they get you know, and then things get all out of proportion. I think if possible, you know, change shouldn't be really something that's just done to people. Yeah, you know, so try to embol them in the journey, seek feedback, seek understanding, create a safe space and environment where people feel comfortable to be able to ask the questions, to be able to speak up. Um, and I just think communicate in different ways. So, you know, depending on how people like to receive their messages, you know, whether that's written, whether that's verbal or or or whatever. So seek feedback, communicate openly. And I think it's really important that managers are also uh upskilled with their communication because you know, if your manager's confused about what's going on, you know, how's that going to translate as well?

SPEAKER_00 20:29

So yeah, everyone's gonna be super clear.

SPEAKER_01 20:31

Yes, absolutely. So openly communicate, involve people, don't make change a one and done. You know, once the change has happened or is in progress, keep seeking that feedback to understand, temperature check how people are feeling. Um it's kind of the best way that I tend to find that that it works.

SPEAKER_00 20:51

I love the idea of keeping people involved because I think that again gets away from making decisions in a silo. Actually, the change will probably be better if it was slightly tweaked by more feedback from the larger organizations. I think that's a that's a real crucial point. Now, last question, Ali. Can you believe it already? Already flown by. Um, so we didn't want to make our whole conversation about this, but I think you alluded it to it um when you were introducing yourself. Um as a senior leader that's female within the tech industry, what advice would you pass on to others trying to aspire following your footsteps? Any kind of sage-like wisdom you'd like to pass on to the audience. No pressure.

SPEAKER_01 21:32

Oh my goodness. Gosh. I mean, I for me, it's always a little bit about pushing yourself outside your comfort zone. You know, I think definitely get a good sponsor, get a good mentor. You know, I and I've been so fortunate that people have, you know, been behind me and, you know, gently push me where I've been a little bit more.

SPEAKER_00 21:52

It's a must have, isn't it? I don't think anyone gets anywhere without without that.

SPEAKER_01 21:55

It's like a safety net. You know, you feel comfortable to be able to take on Extra responsibility or you know something new, knowing that you know someone's got your back. So absolutely get a you know, find a sponsor, get a mentor, get a good, you know, get some good advocacy.

SPEAKER_00 22:13

And you've got to put yourself out there to ask for it, I guess, in a lot of cases.

SPEAKER_01 22:16

You do you do, and that, you know, sometimes, oh God, I've got to go and do networking, whatever. But actually, I have to say, I know sometimes that's probably feels like a huge challenge, but absolutely build that network, build those contacts, you know, build that kind of uh support network around you, because I think that's absolutely invaluable. I think the other thing I would say is that you know, probably as women we always think, oh gosh, I'm not ready, I'm not ready. And we're never gonna be ready, right? So again, try to stretch yourself outside the comfort zone. You're never gonna be 100% ready. So, you know, don't hold back. Don't hold back. Easy to say, but yeah, hard to do. Hard to do, but yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:59

Brilliant. Thank you very much, Ali. Been really generous with your time. Um, if anyone wants to connect with you or get in touch, how can they do that? Is it best via LinkedIn?

SPEAKER_01 23:07

Yes, please, yeah. Ali Cowan on LinkedIn. Happy to connect with anybody that would like to speak to me.

SPEAKER_00 23:12

Brilliant. Thank you very much. Thank you. It's been a pleasure.