Building more than Docks – The Dale's Marine Construction Legacy

In this episode, I sit down with Dale Hickman, owner of Dale's Marine Construction, to discuss an incredible journey filled with faith, hardship, perseverance, and leadership. From watching his father's business struggle and ultimately go bankrupt, to starting over with little more than determination and a commitment to restore his family's reputation, Dale shares the lessons that helped him build one of the Gulf Coast's most respected marine construction companies.

CRN202907-11493360 

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:01

Alright, and welcome back to the show. And you're gonna love this one. Today I'm sitting down with someone who has lived the full journey of building a business from the ground up through legacy, setbacks, hard lessons, and ultimately long-term success. We're talking about the evolution of Dale's Marine Construction. A story that really starts back in 1979 with his father's company and carries forward into what it is today. This is not just a business conversation. This is about leadership, partnership, and what happens when things don't go as planned. We'll get into the real turning points, moments of friction, stepping away from the front lines, and rebuilding trust and what it took to come back stronger than ever. But what really sets this story apart is the foundation behind it faith. If you care about resilience, growth, and building something that actually stands for something, this one's for you. Dale, welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_00 1:07

Well, thanks for having me, Rich. I appreciate that.

SPEAKER_03 1:09

Well, the pleasure's all mine, and I've been excited about this. Uh, you know, you and I have uh worked together for about a decade, and I think you know we've become you know personally friends over that time. And your your company and your story is just so well such a recognizable name in the community. So I think people are gonna get real excited about uh hearing your uh your your story and successes and struggles. So um if you're ready, we'll jump in.

SPEAKER_00 1:38

Yes, sir. Thank you so much. It's uh definitely interesting to me, and it's uh quite amazing that it would be interesting to somebody else. But let's let's see what we got here and uncover this.

SPEAKER_03 1:47

Oh, absolutely. So most of this we'll talk about the business journey, but I always like just to take a minute or two on your childhood. Uh, more specifically, was there anyone when you were you know youngster that influenced you as far as being a high achiever, you know, problem solving, obviously, which we're gonna find out shortly. Your dad was a business owner, but um and any role models like teachers or coaches like that in your childhood?

SPEAKER_00 2:21

Well, you pretty much hit the nail right on the head there with my father. He ended up um being my best friend and my greatest mentor. He never he never let me say I can or I won't. He'd always drop me off there and tell me to figure it out. And then if I didn't figure it out right, then we go back and do it right. But he's um you know, a man of man of faith, a great man of God that didn't really have anything and but always made it work for the family.

SPEAKER_03 2:46

Absolutely. That's that's that's great. I I do see patterns sometimes, you know, with people when they're young having that type of influence, um can help them with you know entrepreneurial ship. So so did you spend how how old were you when he started the company in 1979?

SPEAKER_00 3:10

Well, we started, I guess, from what I remember back in Pungo, Virginia, as a maintenance company. And I remember being underneath houses helping him when I was seven, eight, nine years old, doing plumbing and all that. Then he was in the military, so he retired from Oceania and came down here and actually retired down here at NAS and then ran the barracks down here. And hurricane um then he finally retired and just wasn't making a whole lot, you know, trying to support four kids, um, me and my three sisters. And he worked at Liberty Church for a while, and uh that went panning out. Then we had some friends from the church, some deacons and elders from the church. Their doc got knocked out during Hurricane Frederick, and that's kind of what started me working with him at 16 years old.

SPEAKER_02 3:54

16.

SPEAKER_00 3:54

Okay. It was a dock that I played on. We went over there, it was like our second family. We used their boats and everything they had. They gave it to us, their swimming pool. It was super nice. It was Tommy and Peach is more. They're really, really good people, but they're both gone to be with the Lord now, but they're great, great influence in our lives.

SPEAKER_03 4:11

Okay. So the genesis of this kind of started from hey, your dock got wiped out, but we're your friends, we'll figure this out somehow and get you built.

SPEAKER_00 4:24

Exactly. Well, they knew that my dad was struggling, you know, and they said, hey, we'll pay you, you know, uh a little bit to come out here and build this dock. So I remember being out there uh uh building that thing, creosote. I got to learn what creosote was real quick. That's nothing you want to be in because it burns you really good. And uh no tools or nothing. I mean, my dad, I think he thought my name was Emmanuel. I did all the manual labor out there, no equipment. Exactly. And then the decking we cut with a manual hand saw, the the holes we drilled with the manual auger, and the poles we cut off of the two-man saw. So it was very physical hard labor. So we built that, and of course, it kept going from there. The neighbor saw that it was like, Man, that looks good. You think you can do that for us?

SPEAKER_03 5:08

Oh wow, okay. So this truly uh kind of came out of the ashes like a Phoenix type story. So you were on you helped your dad on the very first job before he even incorporated as a business?

SPEAKER_00 5:21

That's correct. We were just helping some friends out to build the dock back that we used. So we didn't realize it was going to turn into a business. And like I said, I was 16 years old. I was a uh I was a worship leader at the Christian school that I went to, Liberty Christian, and I played guitar and I wanted to get a guitar, so he said, come here and you can work and I'll pay you. So I bought my first FG 312, 12-string Yamaha guitar through Tringus, and I still have it. Still have it.

SPEAKER_03 5:48

Oh, that's fantastic.

SPEAKER_00 5:49

Okay. 600, I think it was $612, which was a lot of money back in 1979.

SPEAKER_03 5:55

Oh, yeah, absolutely. So that you're you're 16, it's 1979. Then I guess pretty quickly he realized that hey, there's a business here, and he made it official.

SPEAKER_00 6:08

Yeah, we just kept going and going, and then all of a sudden, you know, we it it wasn't a licensed profession at the time, which we my dad finally petitioned for it to be a licensed profession because there were just so many unlicensed people, uninsured people in there, and it's really hard to compete against that when you're carrying all the insurance, the proper insurance as a license, and be able to do the job professionally and take care of your employees in case they do get hurt. I mean, workers comp uh is very, very important on this type of profession we use. It's not only a land workers comp, but then you got a waters workers comp that you got to deal with as well.

SPEAKER_03 6:42

Uh I I can imagine. So, so he opened the business, and did you work for him or was this kind of a side job for you?

SPEAKER_00 6:53

Or it at the time it was a side job, side job, sorry. Um actually, no, I started working for him, and then uh, you know, it was getting older. I decided to try to start doing my own thing, and believe it or not, I branched off to work at uh Little Caesars when it first started. So uh and I realized real quick I did not want to be in fast food. My mom and dad would kick me out every night because I smelled like garlic and and onions.

SPEAKER_01 7:19

Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_00 7:19

So I worked worked there for a short time. Then I went to work for Fanning Builders, which was a custom home builder as a superintendent for them for a while, and then um a couple other things. And I ended up coming back to my dad working with my dad. He he employed all the uh guys from Liberty Baba College, they would come down here to go to college and they didn't have a job, so he was able to give them a flexible schedule to work around their schooling and just have different guys come in and out working.

SPEAKER_03 7:44

Okay. So was so just share with us a little bit uh when your dad was still um at the helm of just any interesting stories or kind of the the the flight path of how that business um happened, you know, there was because it was about a 10-year stretch.

SPEAKER_00 8:04

Yeah, well, he he's a very, very smart guy, um, wasn't a business manager to say um you know we came from from nothing really, uh not making a lot of money, didn't really he had a hard time charging people because of how much it cost. He would relate that back to himself, like, well, I can't afford this. You know, how could how could I charge this amount of money and feel ashamed about it? And uh it was really difficult for him to charge and to pay the guys what he was paying. So that stuff like that, you know, it was really difficult for him to be a successful company. Of course, mom and dad were both very faithful, so they were praying about it all the time and just you know, believing God would supply the jobs, which he did. We did a lot of door knocking and flyer passing out and all that. And um then, unfortunately, he um later on in the in the career he had an accident uh carrying some pilings one time, and uh the van that he was driving flipped over on Carpenter's Creek Road, and uh the piling went into the other car and and killed the driver, unfortunately, and he jumped out of his truck right away. My dad did one over there and grabbed his hands and and prayed for him as he was um I get choked up.

SPEAKER_03 9:14

Yeah, I can imagine. Wow, that's uh what so when when when was that?

SPEAKER_00 9:20

I can't remember what year that was. It was um it was probably in the mid-80s, but prayed for that guy, and he his wife had just picked him up from a family union, which was really you know, really traumatic and all that, but um, you know, it was that was a bad time in his life. I mean, he had a hard time continuing on, and I came back to work for him after that to help him out and um you know help him do the labor part of the business. I didn't do any of the managerial part of the business at all because I didn't know how to do that. He he did all that, lined the jobs up, and we would just go from job to job, and of course, you know, I played around a lot, you know, thought he was making all kind of money, which you know, hindsight now I know. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:59

So so it sounds like he was just um a great person, uh, just really didn't have enough margin really in the business to make it a sustainable business. And I'm assuming that you know we won't have to we don't have to dwell on that accident that you just shared, but I'm assuming that was a a financial blow uh in some capacity or at least through you know workers comp or insurance. But yeah, to the late 80s, um he did he close?

SPEAKER_00 10:34

No, I thought we I thought we were doing good. We were um you know, he was stretched out. We hired um him and my mom had um a ministry at the House of Liberty, I think it was called downtown that helped homeless people off the street. And they worked with the people that owned it, um, Joe and Buddy Anderson, ran that, and um they would help homeless people, give them a job, they would come out and work with us, and they would go up there and you know talk to them. So we didn't really have the the greatest skill set all the time of people to help. So that put a strain on the business, plus you know, young college students, you know, they didn't really know exactly what they were doing, but always had to have you know leadership there to to work. They all worked hard. It's just they didn't have the complete skill set of a of an established company with constant employees being there all the time. And my dad, you know, big-hearted, paid too much, uh, gave too much away to the church. Uh, he he he likes uh taking care of missions and all that stuff too. And we were working out in um Blackwater River, not saying people's names, we're working for a doctor out there, and he wanted to recover some land, and it was kind of a questionable area that we were covering. And uh he went ahead and put the wall in for the guy because we needed the money. He was really struggling for money. And I guess the state or federal found out, you know, the where the wall is and was in what they call a wetland area, and they put a big old fine on him, and he had no money to pay that. He was like, I can't pay my employees, I can't survive. He goes, That's it. And my at the time, too, my mom was suffering from uh sinus tumor cancer that he was dealing with, and um he decided to um to shut shut it down because he couldn't help her with that, run the business, fight off all these people trying to attack him for you know, gimme, gimme, gimme money. Um and um just shut it down. Yeah, and uh it was it was a really bad time because uh I watched him come to the house and take their washing machine and dryer, take one of their vehicles, take stuff that he had he had purchased because he ended up having to file um bankruptcy, unfortunately. You know, too much.

SPEAKER_03 12:39

Yeah, I mean it sounds like it's one of those awful stories where he was just helping people with flexibility, he was helping people overpaying, he was giving jobs lower than they should, and just trying to doing things for everyone, and ultimately um the the the the wagging tail came back and slapped him.

SPEAKER_00 13:01

Yeah, very big-hearted, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 13:02

Yeah, yeah, it's it's um well we need people like that, and it's unfortunate it doesn't always parlay into profits, so um right. So I guess before we move into the re-incarnation, there was a period of time where there was no marine construction in your life.

SPEAKER_00 13:23

Well, you yeah, I'd you know that's what I knew because I've been doing it for so many years, from you know 79 to 88, that I decided to go help some friends of ours that were in the same business too. Another another, yeah, I've been mentioned, another marine construction company. And I worked for them and their their motto, well, looking back up, me and my dad would, after every hurricane that came through, we would go and look at the jobs and see how we can improve on it to make it stand up a lot better to the hurricanes. Okay, because it was a big investment. You know, we didn't want what we built for the people to get to get blown out or tore down. So we would look to see where we can increase it and do a better job. Well, the company that I went to work for said, I would say, Well, this is too short, you're doing this wrong or whatever, which I'm sure every company hates to hear when you come from some somewhere else that you know how to do it what they've been doing forever. Right. But I said, you know, this ain't gonna work. He goes, Well, we build for the next hurricane so we can come back and rebuild it again. I was like, wow. So yeah, I quit, I quit that because they were all saying to the customers, this is Dale Hickman. You know, he worked, his dad was DW Hickman Marine, because we were known to be the best in the time back there. Because my dad would, he would put the money into the job, even if he didn't bid it right, to make sure it was done correctly. Um that's just the way he was. He didn't want to leave any any rotten apples anywhere for sure. Right. So I I worked for them for a while, then um then I decided I couldn't have my name like that, and I didn't like uh I didn't like working for somebody else. I enjoyed working for myself, so I took the risk at 27 years old to uh start my own company.

SPEAKER_03 15:00

And so this is your first time kind of going in, well, first time as a business owner.

SPEAKER_00 15:11

Right.

SPEAKER_03 15:12

Probably had a lot of experience, you know, what obviously under your dad, but you're pretty nervous. Um did you have some money you had saved? Um was this a uh shoestring uh operation at first?

SPEAKER_00 15:27

I was uh I was a typical employee that thought my dad was rich. Boy, did I find out something different. Um yeah, I thought he was making all the money, which most employees probably do. They look at the owner, wow, he's rich, you know, he's he's doing this, he's doing that, but um he was you know barely surviving. So um the way uh the way I framed it, and it's uh I hope I don't get emotional on this too, is my there's some people that had paid my dad uh some money, like $5,000 deposits or $10,000 deposits to uh get started on her job. And unfortunately at that time is when they came in and um and gave him that big fund. He decided he had to file bankruptcy, he didn't have the money, and uh, and unfortunately that money was you know robbing Peter to pay Paul, which which really sucked. He was spending it on material for the next job to try to get going. So I sat down and I knew people already had a bad taste in their mouth for D.W. Hickman Marine Construction, and my name is Dale Hickman, which is D, my name is Dale William Hickman. So I had to figure out a game plan, and I just thought about it and thought about it, and I said, Well, I asked my dad, I said, Can I have that list of people that made deposits to you? And he said, uh, yeah, well, what's what's the plan? And of course, he was dealing with my mom. I mean, she fought sinus tumor cancer for seven and a half years. It was it was a it was pretty traumatic for us to see her go through that. I can talk about that later, but let me get back where I was. So I got that list and I wrote every one of those people on that list. Um, I'm Dale Hickman, you know, this is all I've done. Uh I wasn't a an owner of DW Hickman Renconstruction, I was just an employee. I didn't know you know the financial parts of it, nor do I even know it right now. Um because all I did was work. I said, I I would like to honor to save DW Hickman's name. Um I would like to honor the money that you paid to my dad. I said, if you would at least pay for the materials, I'll come out there and I'll do it for free. My own time. If you want to tip me, no. And I'll and I'll do that. And I actually had several clients, customers, whatever you want to call them, called and said they'll take me up on it. And one of them was a rich one, too. I was like, dang, okay. So I went out there over Thanksgiving and uh was nailing on shingles on a roof. And I remember I took the guy that was helping me to Village Inn, and that's where we had our Thanksgiving dinner at Village Inn. Went back to work finishing up that boathouse. And I think it was another was a seawall, but there was a lot of hard time, a lot of Roman noodles, beanie weenies uh, because I wasn't getting paid. I'd work, and this is hard work. I don't know if anybody that's ever been in a marine construction. I mean, it's very demanding on your body, it's very hard, hard work, especially with no equipment. But um, and then I did the same thing with the vendors. Not all the vendors were as um happy to receive the letter. They were demanding money from me right away for whatever my dad owed them. And I was like, hey, you know, I just I just worked for him. There was no money, it's all gone. I said, but I'll be happy to, you know, pay a portion of it, or I'll continue to work with you, buying stuff from you, and I'll pay you as I go, so you at least don't lose that business. One of them did. Um Mickey Wilburne. Mickey Wilburburn.

SPEAKER_03 18:57

Let me jump in real quick. So you're when you started, so you basically opened your doors, and your sounded like your your goal, uh, it was extremely important to you to keep the the great name that your family had in this in this business. And so you were you were essentially working for free, and um the the labor part at least, uh to try and get that name back and to establish a good reputation, um, where with no money coming in to support yourself or your lifestyle.

SPEAKER_00 19:35

Right, right. Wow, exact exactly true. And and that first one again, I just remember this. I had to go to Orlando to pick the material up. So I drove a piece of junk truck that I was able to keep all the way down there and got it back to Crestview, I believe it was, and had a major breakdown in the truck with the trailer to material behind me. And I'm like, I'm doing this for free. Lord help me.

SPEAKER_03 20:00

The licks just keep coming.

SPEAKER_00 20:02

Right, right. So I made it back, had a tow truck come for me for like I think at that time it was like $350, which I thought was a lot, and I didn't have it anyway. But um, yes.

SPEAKER_03 20:13

So the early phases, very difficult, focusing on um, oh I don't know, rebranding is the right word, but just getting a good name out there, setting things right, not just for you, but for the family name, honor of your dad. Um it that probably because your reputation now is phenomenal, that probably you you weren't necessarily maybe thinking about it back then. You you were just trying to tidy up the name, but I would imagine that really paid dividends uh far forward into the future on on your on your word and your quality and just your general um you know business, how you run your business, because it you that's it's it's a very very good name you have in business now. So okay, so we kind of heard about the beginning there. Well, very, very difficult, lots of issues, a lot of problems. Uh you probably didn't know if you were even gonna make it. Um kind of what before we start talking about your general manager, uh what what was kind of the turning point? Was it just just a matter of just getting enough business and you slowly started um you've kind of weeded through the IOUs, and then you could start actually making a little profit in there?

SPEAKER_00 21:34

Right. Let me go let me go back before you had a comment there because I definitely want to give this guy credit. Mickey Wellburn with treated timber products was in my pocket, though I'm not in my pocket, but he had my back the whole time because he had faith in me. He knew my dad and he trusted my dad. He knew he understood hard times. He he let me run bills up, never charge me interest penalty or nothing. I mean, I think even at seven and eight, he let me get up or might have been before then to almost $77,000 and never bugged me about it. So just keep paying me, keep paying me. So I mean he was a blessing from God right there because we would not have been able to survive without treat a temple bucks.

SPEAKER_03 22:13

Wow I'm glad you mentioned that.

SPEAKER_00 22:14

I hope he is he still in business uh he actually um finally sold out to defrane building material they're here now and they're a great company too they're working with us they're started in Louisiana Paul Defrane's the owner he's a good friend of mine so I really appreciate their guys they're really trying to step up and and help us out because I think we're we're one of the main clients or biggest and that's why they bought treaty temper.

SPEAKER_03 22:35

Gotcha Marine all right yes your question again sorry give me a brief quick no no um yeah so you kind of you went you got through the IOUs um and before we get into the manager phase um you started getting some more projects and actually started making a little bit of money just kind of talk us through that phase uh when you're still kind of running by yourself doing employees yeah it was me probably me and a couple guys would work with me every once in a while and uh they went experienced but you know I was there doing it and they were you know helping out labor type work and all that and it was it was tough.

SPEAKER_00 23:14

I mean it was a it was a lot of door knocking and yeah I did try to save the name DW Hickman I did have a couple uh vendors that just shied away from me that wouldn't um you know helped me out at all and I and I and I give them very limited business now to this day because of that reason because if you got my back in the hard times you're gonna have my back in the good times you're gonna get my money in the good times. So um but a lot of door knocking a lot of flyer uh flyer passing out um and just trying to get you know trying to do the best job possible so people would see it and stand out and then when I did the branding of Dales Marine I mean that wasn't just something I just came up with I wanted to have something that that did tie me to Hickman because my name is on everything so people didn't think that I was trying to go around DW Hickman and not take care of the responsibilities which I did. And I came up with a logo I kept thinking what is the best way to make a logo and there's nothing better than the American flag and there's nothing better than Coca-Cola. And Coca-Cola is a very recognizable brand. That's true. And you can you can see it from a distance oh that's Coca-Cola. Well that's exactly what I wanted to do with the DMC logo. So I sat down on a table I can't remember guys' name it's a creative artist and we kind of drew it all up and came up with the uh the DMC logo and it used to be center ice uh for the ice pilots for a long time and I had to change a little bit because I had the Dales Marine construction going through the DMC but it got lost in the ice you couldn't really see that fine print so that's when we branded with the Dales Marine around the oval and all that and I think it's a very very neat recognizable logo a lot of people don't know what it is but when they do know what it is they're like I have seen that everywhere new people coming down says I see your logo all over the water well Lamar advertising taught me the value of advertising because I advertised on their first electric billboard signed by Walmart Golf Breeze and I remember when I paid for that thing. So anywhere I can stick DMC for free I'm gonna do it. Yeah yeah so that's early on and you're trying to get more business coming into the front door right those are all important things so um I would say unless there's something you want to add you're you're kind of just going at it wearing all the hats business all the hats well I'll give yeah since you said that I'll give you the guy the whole nine yards I'll give you the timeline the timeline is I would get up at 536 in the morning I would go work in the job till probably two or three customers getting off work I'd go home get a shower I would go meet with them try to get the quote I'd get back to the house work till 1 2 30 in the morning in my little small office in the garage that I had at the time and do quotes get them emailed out get back up five six o'clock in the morning go to work did that for many many years I was I was pretty efficient at four to five hours of sleep wow yeah and that's that is the part about a business owner that people say oh Dale or XYZ he's a business owner he's so lucky you know he owns his business he has money has his own schedule it's rarely they see under the under the hood or hear about what you just talked about you know 14 15 hour days per year that people easily forget about but you have several several years several years yeah yeah so okay because i i I plugged along and I think you wanted to talk about general manager I believe you said are we good with that now yep okay we I plugged along at that you know and it and every little job is important because every little job could turn into something else I mean I put in this little jet ski float I was like wow five hundred dollars but that ended up being a thirty two thousand dollar boathouse later on of course that was a lot of money back in the day now there are a lot more but um this one guy I really remember him out of Pernita Bay Country Club he came down with his overalls on this look like a country bumpkin guy I mean and he's looking at a super nice guy and he's like what y'all doing and I said building a seawall he goes oh I need one of them like okay I I pre-judged which I will never ever do again well he had us come down build him a really nice seawall and he tipped my guys every week $50. So God did a check on me right there said don't you ever judge my creation because you don't know what's underneath that skin. Yeah fair enough I agree absolutely that's that's great but that turned out turned out really good so I I worked along plugged along for several years uh till I guess it was um june June of um well actually no it was um oh eight the end of oh eight or yeah end of 08 that I met um a customer I was doing a job for and he wanted Bill Franklin emotional that's all right well that that was uh that was that that was 2004 wasn't it yeah yeah I believe so yeah yeah so I well I met him and then I went out I went out uh to his place and he had a place where there was a seawall like 30 something foot out in the water that was all broken down I mean you couldn't even really tell it was a seawall you could see it in the water and he wanted to rebuild it and I said well that's not happening the state's you know it's more than 50% damage the state's not gonna let you have that and or build it and he goes well okay well I'll take on the permit process myself and I said all right good luck didn't think I'd ever see him again and um he comes back to me and says well I went to tell Hasse I got the permits like what so he fought got the permits to go 32 foot out in the water reclaimed his property if he hadn't done it he would have never been able to build there. This is Bill talking about yes yeah this is Bill Franklin okay uh my now general manager so he did that and I went to work uh he was freshly retired um um and didn't didn't I guess just had all the time on the on his hands so he was there with me and you know during the project and all that and he was very hands-on he just kind of watched everything that was going on and he was very detail oriented very detail oriented my guys I had working for me were not they were just you know some rough carpenters and all that and they didn't have super good personalities and not really good people skills Bill's very great at people skills he has taught me a lot myself just how to deal with custom with employees which I already thought it was good but he's a lot better and um taught me a good lesson there then at the end of the job you know I was glad to be done with it because it was like one thing after another well can you do this can you do this you know I don't like this or you know let's let's do it this way and it was it turned out to be a great job I mean it and he spent a lot of money with me so he he put up with a lot of crap with the guys I had working for me but I believe we're probably the best at the time anyway. Right so he says well I got a question for you I said what's that he goes well I'd like to come to work for you I was like what what after we just went through all this here but I said okay so I entertained it I said well what you want he goes well I would like a cell phone a pickup truck at fifty thousand dollars and fifty thousand dollars to me at that time was like well I I can't do that that's crazy and I was like okay let me think about it and then he said I want to help you become successful that was key yeah that was a key word right there and I said you know whatever it takes let's make it happen yeah and we did we gotta and now we're we're we're you know we're best friends yeah now he's he's amazing um so we'll talk about him a little bit more because I know that's kind of I guess uh air quotes uh where things start changing um yeah because you're you're I guess I mean not to put words in your mouth but your real strengths are engineering and construction you know and design right and and his strengths are business operations and details right and and I learned from my dad so I'm going down the same path as my dad did right because I'm like I can't afford this and um you know I'd I'd kind of look at like what I could afford well you know I was in the $32,000 a year bracket I can't afford nothing anyway.

SPEAKER_03 31:50

Right yeah so that was a at the end of the day that that was your decision a risk that you decided to have faith in right and take a leap of faith that you didn't really know maybe how you were going to be able to afford that position um but I guess you know God brought that to you and um maybe part of it and I I will say I've been working with Bill myself you know with our business that we do together for years and he he really is I mean he is a hard worker good decision maker great business mind um very straight to the point uh I I can see how um I can see how you thought he could he could help um so so you hired him in 2004 and I as the general manager basically right right and another reason why I did is like my mom I was very it was a very rough time because my mom had just passed away not too long before that and I was like you know I know that don't happen but like maybe you know maybe my mom talked to God and knew I needed some help and sent Bill to me.

SPEAKER_00 33:06

So I'm agreeing on that. Yeah I'm agreeing on that.

SPEAKER_03 33:11

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 33:12

So he's hired you have some help you can focus on certain activities he's focusing on um you know quotes and operations did things start improving immediately or what happened it it took a it took a little bit but instantly things were changing uh numbers are really going up good because he knew you know uh he knew what he could charge he knew the value of my business he paid it in his business I mean in in the job that I did for him and he probably knew there was a lot more money that could have been made right there and the good thing about Bill he's a lot he he is he's a lot like me as well he can look at something and tell people his famous words are it's time to pull the plunger because there's a lot of people that want to fix stuff and he goes out there and says no let's just let's just start over have a clean slate make this exactly what you want instead of patching it together and have to come back again and redo it but instantly numbers start going up I mean I was I think I was 30 40 thousand dollars a year I mean it was nothing and then all of a sudden we're at like 1.4 he could give you the exact numbers because he's a number guy I think it's like 1.4 like instantly I'm like wow and then we've just tremendously grown from there.

SPEAKER_03 34:33

Yeah so so let's kind of freeze in that area for a second um and that's amazing you know you your hard work all those hours and made a good decision by hiring him as a partnership um and and you have a little financial security now um you've you've probably like okay I I succeeded I got this I started it I got it to a point where it's making it's it's a legitimate business it's making good money did you feel a sense of pride oh I did I felt a sense of pride and I felt a sense of that was a really good decision and the hardest part of that was letting go because I always had to have my hands on everything.

SPEAKER_00 35:24

But then I realized once I could let go and have multiple crews and start um generating more income with Bill managing at the same time that's how we become more successful and more profitable realizing it's not going to be exactly how I want it every single time but there's things that we can go back and fix if need be.

SPEAKER_03 35:46

Yeah so you're talking about scaling right because there's only one Dale Hickman and you can only do one job one. So without right without crews you can't scale yeah right exactly so I I bet that was a a little bit of a hard situation to let go of and trust and um I mean now you've had employees that have been there for a long time so it's you know easy to look back in the rear view mirror but uh at the time you know it's it's such a unique and specific uh profession it's not like something common you know and and dangerous yeah right okay so you're growing you're making some money did you start enjoying yourself a little bit and you know oh yeah I did I did Bill Bill did a good job and Bill did such a good job that I was like man you know I've worked really really hard Bill's doing a good job.

SPEAKER_00 36:41

So I'm and of course I was um unfortunately uh getting divorced at the time too um just I I wasn't I wasn't a real real good faithful husband but um those things happened I'm forgiven now and ask them to forgive me and God forgive me but those things happen and so I wasn't living a very godly life at the time and it caught up to me and I started playing around and um buying things and buying boats and buying four wheelers and not working and just taking it easy and um and I can understand it probably was really tough on Bill because Bill really liked me but he never came to me and said anything about well where are you where where you been what what job you work on he never never asked me that um so I I really respect him he probably should have took me aside and shook me or something but then realized that that he was making all this money and I was just blowing it and it wasn't going into the company and the company was was struggling because of that. Yeah because I've never had money never been with money.

SPEAKER_03 37:42

And that's uh you know that's a it's an interesting point you know when when you start making good money uh and you have a a transition in your life uh where some distractions could be useful um and then you have both at the same time I mean it's it's I can see how that could be um difficult and and you I mean you it's not really sustainable working 15 hours a day you know 360 days a week year after year after year right so so you took your foot off the gas a little bit and it seemed like potentially that uh you might have needed a little help getting your foot back on the gas again well yeah well I took it off and um yeah Bill realized that um that he needed to um to get my mind right as he'd say boy you need to get your mind right so uh Bill came to me and said that um you know the company can't support his can't support him can't support me uh that I need to I need to get back involved with the company I believe that was kind of the gist of of what went down and and he um decided he was going to leave which I was like oh my gosh this is reality that was in June of 09 I believe and he did he took off and so I had to I had to get back in the office had to learn all my passwords again and all that kind of stuff and and get back into quota which I love I love you know meeting with customers and talking customers and of course my wife Kelly now says you've got the gift of gab I said no I got the gift of selling myself because I know what I'm talking about but um yeah she's sweet but um yeah so he left and and uh was gone you know June of 09 and I had to get back in there and you know seven and eight did you feel like um were you taking the stance like well I don't I don't need him I can do this by myself or was it more like oh crap how am I gonna do this?

SPEAKER_00 39:48

At first at first it was yeah oh crap how am I gonna do this and then it got to be uh a little bit of resentment like well I could do this by myself I did it by myself you know I kind of seen what he's been doing and what we've been charging so now I can continue on to do it. So I but I took that and I buckled down and started doing it um for you know half a year there or so and then uh he came he was up at Cape Cod then he came down and called me and said hey do you want to um I or I I don't know how it went he wanted to go lunch or I wanted to go lunch but we I believe it was we met at McGuire's and sat out there and had lunch and just talking and talking and um and he's sorry I got somebody trying to talk to me outside um kept talking and talking and at the end I I looked at him and just trying to be nice I said hey if you ever want to come back just let me know you know just being nice like bye see you later love you and then uh he said okay and left and then I think a week or two later he called me back said hey bro I said hey bro what's going on he says were you serious about what you said and I was like but yeah yeah question mark I said why's that he goes um I've been thinking about it and um I'm gonna come back down there and me and you're gonna sit down and have some guidelines if you want me to come back and we did he had a talk to me said bro you're gonna be on a on a payroll you're gonna be on dividend sharing or whatever it's called uh like I said he's a businessman not me and you're not gonna live out of the company because I cannot make or grow this company to be successful if you keep draining the funds out of it which makes sense of course it does I just thought we were making so much money I could do what I wanted to do and I'm the president. But the president's got to take full responsibility for exactly what happens and the people that you put in those position to make sure that it does happen and big enough to call you out and say you're not doing your job which he did. And I I mean he like I said he's my best friend besides my wife and God he he we've never had an argument we've never had we've never been on bad terms. I mean he is a very intelligent man and a very very hardworking man.

SPEAKER_03 42:02

He puts in the hours yeah I mean that is the definition of a key man I mean because obviously he doesn't need the job but um to to basically prove his point he left right left left you in the uh left you in the burning uh the burning ashes and then came back but had the backbone to to basically lay out what needed to be done and um not you know a business owner doesn't necessarily want to hear that sometimes right right um it was tough it was tough I'm like you know I I'll show you I've been doing this but no it's not the mindset I took I was like you know he's really helped us become successful so far and you know I need to I need to listen to him and I did and I've done ever since you could probably check with him now and say yep we've been following the rules so that was a big uh you know that was a big turning point you know getting him on scaling the business with different crews uh working through that little um friction between you guys and then just resolidifying the team and the direction um and the goals and the boundaries and um you know what what people's operating roles are within the company and and really turning it into a professional well-run business and that really started the beginning of a pretty big growth phase right is that right yeah it did I mean we end up uh once we got everything put together and and working together on stuff you know the economy turned around really good for us and even in the bad economy with the you know oil spill and all that we still did really good we struggled for money but we made Bill always made it happen he always makes sure payroll's ready and are done and we've got money

SPEAKER_00 44:00

And savings and all that too, but good investments he's made on property for us that we've sold and made money on. But um, it started a growth phase of um probably about I think seven, eight crews we ended up having. We were looking to go to nine or to ten crews, but we just we decided to pull it back. But I mean we've got employees that are their average of um uh 21 years. Under Bill's 21, going on 22 years. Um my daughter, um Ashley, our office manager, she's been there ever since the beginning with me, so I don't know how many exactly years that is. Uh, she does an awesome job, and her and her husband, um Alan, is my lead foreman. And he's been with me 21, 20, 21 years plus. I've got a Woodrow Smith been with me ever since the beginning, too. Never didn't know construction, work, and landscaping in Detroit. Yeah, started with me, and he's 30. I think we tired him at 33 years, and he he the doctor actually made him quit. He's 80-something years old now. Still comes to our Christmas parties.

SPEAKER_03 44:57

Yep. Wow, that's great. So let's talk about um how you handled what what I would call business um interruptions. So I I think most people realize that hurricanes actually help you guys as far as new business, but it obviously creates challenges. Um you mentioned oil spills. We also, of course, locally we had our main uh three-mile bridge knocked out by um a hurricane marches, which drastically changed um the way we could get from point A to point B, especially since you guys are located in Gulf Breeze. Um talk about how you mitigated or managed some of those business disruptions.

SPEAKER_00 45:46

Yeah, well, we've had some guys working in Golf Breeze, so that helped us in that area. We had some guys, you know, working or live in Pensacola. So we ended up having a boat that we could ferry some people back and forth. Of course, we were working on bay cliffs at the time, and it was winter time, and there was no water, so we still would have to get in the water and walk to the jobs in the morning. It was so low. Um, as far as mitigating them, we would kind of turn to different styles, different types of things that we were all good at. I mean, there's there's things that's not in the marine construction field that we actually end up doing, like we'd do a fence for somebody, or we'd do an online deck for somebody uh just to try to keep things going, and then we would minimize our crews to be the most efficient instead of having a staff heavy crew, we'd move it over to another person that's doing a bigger job to keep the jobs rolling and keep the funds coming in.

SPEAKER_03 46:36

Okay, that's great. How how has the marine construction changed, let's say, in the last 20 years, from and it might not have, but from a point of technology, equipment, um it's still pretty pretty uh it's pretty uh raw type of construction. You gotta pound some pilings in and you you gotta water, and but how how has it changed over the years?

SPEAKER_00 47:02

Well, it's changed a lot since I worked with my dad because it was all manual labor with my dad. And I mean, we would set up A-frames and come alongs for standing poles up, and then we had this uh little thing that my dad named Tadmore, which everybody hates now. It's like a it's a big fence post driver. If you ever said a fence post driver got two handles on the side, well, this weighs about 80 pounds and it's 10 inch in diameter, it's heavy, so we would drive pilings down with that. So we're kind of out of that phase now. I realized that when I started my business, I wanted to minimize injuries, minimalize the hard labor aspect of it so that we can move material rapidly with barges and pilings and equipment, uh, opposed to the guys wearing themselves out all day long, just moving material to the job site, that they could actually focus on building it opposed to toting it. So now we've got I think four barges now, three of them with the big uh track hose on it, where we can pretty much maneuver everything from a boat ramp to the barge, to a material barge we can load stuff up on, get it right to the job. We can pick the pilings up with the excavators, we can drive them in with the excavators, so there's not a whole lot of hand labor as much anymore, which you know saves on workers' comp and saves on the guy's energy.

SPEAKER_03 48:22

Yeah, so a lot of heavy machinery that has been has started to be used with for construction these days.

SPEAKER_00 48:29

Right, and screw guns, I remember nailing like crazy, nailing nails, and now we use screw guns on everything. And my my flop philosophy is just to you know work smarter and not harder.

SPEAKER_03 48:40

Yeah, yeah. Oh, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 48:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 48:43

So um we've briefly talked about it earlier on, which was advertising, but I I do see your advertising, um, but it seems like your advertising has you haven't really had to expand that role. Your your name, um, because of your good work and your goodwill and your reputation, the name just has innately advertised itself through word of mouth.

SPEAKER_00 49:19

Thank you, Richard.

SPEAKER_03 49:20

And it's and I'm not just saying that because you know I'm a customer or friend, it's just the truth. And everyone knows um who Dale's marine construction is. But that that comes with a negative too, right? So there's been a lot of pop-up marine construction competitors. It's I mean, I'm I don't know your profession, but it seems just because I live around the water in this community, seems like there's been a lot of uh, I don't know if they're under the you know illegals, but just a lot of small what you were when you started trying to get your business and undercut the price because they're not having workers comp, they're not playing employee benefits, they don't have 401ks, they don't have barges. Um how have you managed that?

SPEAKER_00 50:12

Well, you're exactly right about that. We've had several companies spin off of us, which some you know did it the right way, some don't do it the right way, but I don't blame them. If they want to be in business for themselves, I wish they would let me know because I would definitely help them get set up. There's we got plenty of work, we could sub to them. We don't typically sub to anybody, but I would sub to somebody that's worked for me because I know the type of work they do. I just I want me and Bill both want all of our employees to do our jobs. So as far as the other guys starting out, I did the same thing. I had to start somewhere, I had to make money to get to that point. But once you do, you it's it's a good idea to go ahead and get you know the license because you're only you're putting yourself out there for a risk. You're putting a homeowner that you're working for for a risk because a homeowner could pay for it on their on their homeowner's insurance, you know, if somebody gets hurt. But as long as they get legit, um I'm okay with that. But we have uh a bill set up every month pretty much. We have foreman meetings, all of our all six or seven of our foreman now, we all meet together and we discuss how we do our job. We discuss how the bolts are put in, we discuss how the screws are lined up, we discuss every aspect, the pole lining, piling wrap, everything, so that when you go to a Dales Marine job, you're not gonna say, Oh, Alan's crew built that one, or I can tell Kenneth's crew built that one. I can tell Tanner's crew or Kevin's crew or Ethan's crew. It's all a Dales Marine construction dock. We set ourselves apart by doing it the right way, building our foundation like I did in the word and in the Bible, build a foundation right, then do all the pretty, then do all the pretty stuff on top to keep on going to set yourself apart from everybody else. Everybody knows that we build the strongest dock. Um, it's not that we're the most expensive, we are the best builder as far as structurally. After Sally, we had zero dock damage with the with the large pilings we do now and the graded decking. You asked about new implants, there's graded decking out there now that allows the water surge to get through. So after that, the foam blew up after Sally because of all of our docks were still there. Florida Marine Patrol called me, said, Hey, Flounder's dock is still here, so that's really cool. And they said that's the only dock that was left after Opal, I believe.

SPEAKER_03 52:33

Wow. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And that's I I I heard the same thing as well. And that that's amazing. So you haven't really uh the the competition hasn't really affected you too much.

SPEAKER_00 52:46

We don't mean Bill don't like to call it competition. We like to call it other people out there doing the same thing we're doing because we believe that we're in a class of our own. Yeah, I mean we're uh and we have a lot of repeat customers. We do the customization of it, we do it, we do heavy duty construction, we do even do small stuff. So I'm not putting myself out of not doing a you know a hundred, two hundred dollar service job or whatever, because all those things lead to something down the road. Absolutely, absolutely or or a friend that needs something, yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_03 53:16

Yeah, so all right. Well, let's let's kind of shift the narrative um to how faith and purpose over profits and how that has all integrated into your um yeah, corporate culture.

SPEAKER_00 53:35

Right. Well, I like I said, I I grew up at Liberty Church, it was Liberty Bible College at the time. When I was graduating, my dad said, son, you're either going to pay me rent or you're gonna go to college. To Liberty College, like uh. So I went one semester and it just wasn't for me. I just I can't focus. I like to be doing something all the time. So I do have one semester of Liberty Bible College, church in me. And uh and just growing up in church really gave me uh the focus on the power of prayer. The power of prayer is a thing still to this day. You've got to get your life right with God. You can't just use God as a revolving door and or a genie to bottle and rub and say, Hey God, I want this. God wants a continuous relationship with you on a daily basis, and that's what I do. We've now got a men's group that meet at my house Saturday mornings at 6 a.m. And 6 a.m., that's pretty good, that's pretty dedicated. The seven guys at least, they come over and we do a deeper dive into the Bible. They might say, My preacher said this, but I couldn't ask him what he meant by that. So we do that there, and then we each take turns sharing and we pray for each other, and and just I think it really is a good focus on the day, and it's it's good for men's um men's stability, having a group that they could talk to. We have a private chat and a and a page on Facebook, which is the lumber yard, where we discuss stuff that we talk about. And my wife is the one, Kelly's the one actually started it. She goes, You need to start a men's group. I was like, Okay, why? She says, Because you need to teach men how to treat women and how to be the head of the household and how to show men how wife the wife is not just a helpmate, but is her Ezher. And her Ezher is talked about that in the Bible. God is our Ezher. So if you're saying God's Ezher, and our wife is our Ezher, I mean that's a pretty pretty high level right there. And our wife is our helpmate, not just a helper, which people think is oh, I need a helper. Wife is a very important part of a man.

SPEAKER_02 55:30

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 55:31

My mom and dad grew up in the faith, uh, prayed. Um I remember seeing him praying. Her my mom walking laps praying for a $1,500 check to come in just so we could eat this week and pay all of our employees. I remember I just need a thousand dollars, I need fifteen hundred dollars. If that's all I got now, I'd be in trouble. But I'm like, we so mom, mom, and dad, and it says in the Bible, your blessings get passed down through generational blessings, and that's what I'm receiving right now. The prayers.

SPEAKER_03 55:59

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 56:00

Mom and dad.

SPEAKER_03 56:01

Absolutely. Well, see it seems like you have figured out how to add prayer and purpose in into your corporate culture and still remain profitable. And I think that is something that is really unique. It's not it's not just about the last cent or the last dollar. Um you've been able to balance that um over multiple decades. And I mean, there's so many things that you know we or I or the listeners could compliment you on, but that that might just be the biggest biggest compliment to be able to integrate um purpose and prayer and and not just about the prophets and have a multi-generational, very successful, well-known, and respected business. Really are it it's it's it's just great. It's just five stars. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 56:55

So thank you. That triggered a memory, if you don't mind, real quick. That triggered a memory. Uh, when I was 17 years old, I did go to work for uh a deacon or an elder at the church, and it was we were framing. I'm not saying names, but I was out there and I was just like really paying attention, and he was like, I want to go get water, feel a cooler up. He's yelling at me, boy, when you do that, you run back and forth, blah blah blah cussing and all that. I'm like, wow. Okay, we were just at church yesterday, and you're talking like this now. Is church just a Sunday thing? Or is it a continual relationship in your life? I said, one day I am gonna own a business, treat all my guys with respect, never gonna cuss at any of them, and I'm gonna pay them a fair wage without me becoming the head or the king or the head honcho. And me and Bill both have that at the same agreement. We pay bonuses when we can quarterly to all of our employees, not just to management, but we have me and Bill both live by that, and neither one of us have ever done that to our employees. We always try to make them feel comforted, make them find out what's going on with them, point them in the right direction if we are disappointed, and treat them with respect and pay fairly. So I appreciate those comments, but that's what bred that into me seeing somebody that I looked up to not be the person that I should look up to, but I wanted to be that person that my people look up to.

SPEAKER_03 58:21

Oh, yeah, yeah, that's that's that's a great story. I appreciate you sharing. So uh starting to wrap up and not quite done yet. Um just generally speaking, you know, what's what's next?

SPEAKER_00 58:38

What's next?

SPEAKER_03 58:40

I don't I you probably don't know the answer, but just you know, well, I'm 63 and a half years old, as my wife would say now.

SPEAKER_00 58:50

Uh bless her. Um I've I started my wife started five years ago, Kelly Hickman's RDW, a reclaimed dockwood. So what we do is she keeps all of our refuge that we tear out from jobs that are still in usable shape, and she has a reclaim yard where it lays down, and I help her manage that. I keep the yard going. She does all the marketing and talking to people through uh Facebook on that. Help help manager in that phase, which is spun off another part. We did a big job of a demo that had green heart pilings, which came from Guyana. And I looked up what Greenheart was, and it's a very valuable uh hardwood comparable to ePay and Kumaroo, which I personally, not being biased, think it's even better because it has more character. Um we got all that, so I've I researched it, found out it can be cut up. So I built a sawmill, a wood finishing business, which I'm not sure what it's gonna be, if it's gonna be just selling wood or if I'm gonna be making furniture or or stuff, but I love making mantles and little knickknacks and stuff for my wife right now. Everything I make the sales going in our house. So I appreciate her thinking I'm more than a marine contractor now that I'm actually a finished carpenter. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:05

Yeah, absolutely. Well, you know, I think it's important to have some other hobbies and passions outside of this things that you do for the last 40, 40 years. And I I follow that on Facebook, and uh it does seem like that's starting to grow. That's that's great. And uh especially that you guys are doing that together. That's that's really special. So all right.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:27

As far as far as later on retirement, uh Bill has set my schedule up where I can take one day off a week now, which is nice. As far as retirement, I don't know what I'm gonna do. I still got plenty of energy. I got plenty of great employees that work for me, and I want them to become successful with me as well. So the company's gonna continue moving forward as far as I know right now, God will.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:48

Absolutely. Uh well, let's hope so. All right, so we always wrap up with um, you know, discuss two key successes or decisions that you made that had significant impact on your success, and then two mistakes or lessons learned you can share to help other business owners or entrepreneurs uh potentially avoid. So you can you can go with the successes or mistakes, whichever you want you feel like.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:13

Yeah, let's do the successes first. Um, my first success was getting grounded at a young age in um in God's word, but then falling away and then um, you know, really, really working hard. I mean, just because you're present, I have a lot of people say that just because you're present doesn't mean you can take off and take it easy and all that. You have even more responsibility on your shoulders to make sure this company runs to take care of the people that you're employing because they're helping you achieve your goal, you need to help them achieve their goals as well. And then not having too much pride that you can't hire somebody that's smarter than you, Bill Franklin, to run your company and give the handles over to him. And I told him that. I said, You you are me, you have all the authority I have, you make decisions as you think I would have made decisions. You don't have to come and ask me, but he still does on some things, um to take care of it. And that was probably the best decision, and then re-et rededicating my life again to God a few years back, me and my wife do. So we're trying to stay focused on that, taking care of um, taking care of our um employees and um and what's say this got hard hard time with with family members being divorced and remarried and all that. So I pray for that bond, if God has his will to put it back together for us.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:35

Excellent. Okay, wonderful. All right. And then uh share with us some um some you know hard lessons or mistakes that were made that uh in hindsight you learned from that others maybe can uh can learn from if you know from your experience.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:56

The hard lessons are taking advantage of someone that's there trying to do a a good job for you, and you you know you don't respect the time they're putting into it, and you're not put in the time that you need to put into it to be helping become successful to be a to be a team leader. And also at first just having a hard time having the faith and being able to branch out to other people, finding the other people that that can take responsibility and giving them the responsibility that they need, that but you can mentor mentor them and becoming successful also. Uh there's a lot of people that are just sitting there waiting to have a chance, but you don't think they're capable of doing it. They might not be capable of doing it the way you do it, but they can be capable of doing it the best they can, and you can encourage them to get a little bit better along the way. And that we we really try to promote and focus within instead of bringing somebody else in. And that that works good. I got a foreman that I just promoted um a few months back, and he is doing phenomenal now. At first I was like, because he was a crew leader, I was like, I don't know if he's gonna make it, I don't know if he's gonna make it. And Bill kept saying, let's uh let's give it some time, and man, the team that they developed, they were all complaining about each other, now they're like best friends. So you got to be able to have faith in humans and give the proper room that they need to develop their own skills and let them work best at it.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:23

That's that's fantastic, and I I appreciate you sharing, and obviously those are a lot of lessons that you've learned uh over many years, and sometimes the hard way and sometimes the soft way. Right, right. Um you could probably spend a whole hour just talking about lessons learned and either yeah, so uh it's personal personal stuff too. We're all we're all guilty, you know, we're humans, we all make mistakes, and um but um you've done a great job. So thank you. So that's a that's a wrap, and uh Dale man, I I mean what what a conversation that was. This is one of those stories that sticks with you because it's not just about building a business, it's about pushing through the hard sessions, the seasons, learning from setbacks, and coming out stronger. And I love how your story comes full circle. Legacy, leadership, staying grounded in faith and purpose, and that's what's you know, that's what really makes something last, like your business. So, Dale, I really appreciate um sharing your story. We'll see you guys next time. Thanks for listening.