Episode 26 - Jamie O.

Listen in to Jamie as shares her story.  She has trusted the Lord through good times and hards times.   

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:10

Hello, I'm Becky Dowd, and this is The Journey to Salvation. Join me as we walk alongside real people and hear the unique journeys that led them to faith in Jesus. Today my guest is Jamie O'Croach Cove. O'Croach Cove. Thank you, Jamie, for saying that. I was gonna struggle with that and I didn't want to mess it up. You said it a lot more times than I have, so you've had some practice. I have. Yes. How are you doing today? I'm good. Good. So Jamie, you are, I think I've known you for I don't know how long. Uh we went to church together at Wynne Baptist. And you know, one of my most vivid memories of you is we were in the youth room, uh in the old youth room, and it was a Wednesday night, and you I think you were helping with the youth and I was helping with the youth too. Were you like still in high school at that time or were you graduated?

SPEAKER_03 1:07

Maybe in college or just out of college.

SPEAKER_02 1:10

Okay, yeah. So I don't know why. Every time I think back about those times, that's where I own I guess that's the only place I really saw you a lot was in the that youth room.

SPEAKER_03 1:19

That's about the time I started coming to Wim Baptist, so that makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 1:22

Yeah. So, Jamie, can you just give us a little background information about growing up? Yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:30

Um, I grew up in Earl and I lived there my whole childhood. We didn't really leave Earl for much. It's really funny because people in Wynn will say a lot, like, you know, so and so, or do you remember this and that over there where it used to be? And I'm like, no, I really don't. Like I we don't live that way now. Like, I don't live that way with my kids, but we lived that way. We did not, like, it wasn't a thing to have pizza every Friday night. My mama was uh always cooking our meals, and you didn't have many uh fast food restaurants in Earl. We didn't at all. There's one on the highway called Bulldog Cafe, and it would swap owners, and you know, we'd sometimes have it. We didn't have those uh dollar stores on the highway, you know. We had one gas station, we had the mad butcher. So um, but it was a great childhood. I would give anything for my kids and they know it to grow up that way. Uh we had a on the end of our block, there was a house situated on probably like three city blocks. So my favorite memories are playing on Mr. Billy's lot, Mr. Billy Rogers. We played all the sports down there, like all the neighborhood kids, and we rode our bikes all over town. Yeah. Um, I have so many stories on everyone I grew up with about dangerous things that we did. My brother and his wife now, Amber, um, and her brother. So Amber's brother was Josh's best friend, and they used to crawl around in the I don't know what the runoff drains under the roads. They would play in those, like crawl around in them until they'd have to lay down and scoot. Oh wow. Just crazy stuff. Uh one time he told me they got stuck under there and it was raining, and I mean, they barely made it out alive, like seriously, barely made it out alive, and he was terrified. So um, but yeah, it was good. My mother's parents and my mother's grandmother. Um they lived side by side. So I grew up with grandparents and a great-grandma. And yeah, we we were at their house as much or more than at home. And so um I got to experience that and was really close to all of them, and um it was wonderful. I want to tell you about how I came to Jesus. Okay. Um as an adult, it's really interesting to look back on your childhood because there's things I know now that I didn't recognize in my parents. Um, I didn't realize what was happening at that time. But um I wouldn't I can't say they were first generation believers because I don't know when their parents were saved. Um but they both grew up in my parents grew up in really hard situations. And I didn't know all of that. I knew some of it, but I didn't I only knew kind of what I picked up on, you know. And um but my parents came to Christ, I think, around the time they were married. Um it didn't really initiate change in both of them immediately. So um, but it's I love looking back on my childhood because they my mother has always been like up early, sitting at the corner of whatever couch we had, reading her Bible. Like that's something I can't not remember, you know, as far back as I can remember. And my dad is an avid reader, he loves history, so he's always had on the kitchen table there's the Bible and a history book. And I I don't that hasn't always been that way, but like most of my teenage years, my dad had grown to that type of relationship with the Lord, that he wanted to be in the word all the time. And so when I think back to when I know what I know of their lives, um and even their lives as married people, they've had hard stuff, and um I didn't know that was planting seeds in me. Um but it was like seeing them have the character and the fruit of the spirit in their life really impacted me. Um when I was probably like 11 to 15, I don't know what initiated this, but just some really terrible friendships um just started pulling me the wrong direction. And as young as I was, it's so hard for me to believe, especially having kids that age, some of the stuff that I'd already found myself involved in, but I did. And um, I had a friend when I was 15 who pulled me aside and started questioning me, like, why do you think you need this or that? And what's missing, or what's what are you getting from that? How do you feel about that? Just a lot of good questions. And for whatever reason, I answered her honestly. And it was like that was just the spirit using her to point things out to me and to show me that I was just empty and and I didn't even recognize it's it's just amazing how the spirit does that because I didn't feel empty or I didn't realize I was already like just chasing something that was gonna make me feel any sort of way. I didn't know that, but I was, and she was already wise enough at 15. We are our birthdays are literally days apart, and she really guided me to see my need for a savior, and um I was really immediately impacted, like she did a great job of sharing Jesus with me, and I really felt like for the first time I understood that this is someone who loves me. And I I I loved the concept of like I don't have to be a certain way or do a certain thing, like he he loves me and wants me, and so I felt like I just kind of dove all in, like I was all the way. I wanna, what does he want? Who is he? And I want to know everything, you know. And so I started the best I knew how at that time anyway. I started getting to know Jesus and like listening to Jesus music and like all the stuff. Um I had a some people in my life from there on through, like up to college, um, who were really important and impactful in my life. I definitely it was still messy and imperfect. Like I think back on that, and sometimes as a mom, you're like, oh Lord, no, I want my children to get it immediately and never have any problems, you know? But also, again, back to my parents, like the way that they've parented us and the way that they've loved us through everything, like I've never felt shamed by them, which is such a beautiful thing. And I wouldn't think that people would have looked at my parents back then and been like, what ideal Christian leaders, you know. But when I remember how they lived in front of us, especially from like my early teen years up, um, they really lived with the fruit of the spirit. And so I'm encouraged by that. Like we can do that with our kids. They weren't perfect, but they got a lot of things right that really mattered, like loving us well, um, sticking everything out with us, never walking away from us or um leaving us just feeling really terrible for whatever we had done. They just really got in there with us. And um, I feel like that that's really the main thing that I guess shaped my foundation of my faith.

SPEAKER_02 10:13

And I can see from just you as a parent and your brother and Amber as parents that they really you you really have continued that type of parenting on, just being there for your kids and being all in and supporting them in every way.

SPEAKER_03 10:29

Well, we want to, but me and Josh all the time are like, we're not mom. She's and now she's you know, helping us with our kids, and it's it's like we can't compete with Nana. She's pretty great. Yes. And my dad is great. I mean, they're so different from one another, but they just continue to give and give and give to us. And and which, as you know, and I'm sure we'll talk about this. We have all these adopted kids. Um, my brother has four and I have five. Josh has six kids total, and I have seven. And it's been a learning curve for everyone, including my parents. Um we have not made their grandparenting life easy, and they it it hasn't been easy, and we've had some pretty tragic things happen along the way, and our kids have well, our kids have just been kids, but my parents have been again like there have been times that they've responded to our choices in fostering and adopting in the wrong way. And within weeks they've come back and been like, I'm so convicted by how wrong I am, and I need your forgiveness, and what do you need from us? And I I just who has that anymore, you know, like that's a gift. And so, um, yeah, when I think about just childhood expanding into young adulthood, that's really what I think is like what a gift um we had. I I didn't even know it. I mean, I I loved my parents, but I didn't have any idea until I became an adult and also had hard things happen. And then I was like, my parents, you know, what was that about them that made them unwavering? Like they just really are those people. And I know it's their faith. And I love that because like I said, they have not been perfect at all, but they have had unwavering faith in Jesus, and that's I feel like changed our whole family, you know, like a legacy, because that's not what they had. Right. But through the ups and downs, they established that.

SPEAKER_02 12:50

And through their faith in Christ, that's that's what their foundation was or is. So what happened after you graduated?

SPEAKER_03 13:00

After I graduated, um, I had gone off to Florida to college because I said we didn't really leave Earl. And I was so um just enthralled by the idea of being at the beach all the time. And so I went to college in Florida. But um college ended and I came right back home and got a teaching job. And while I was teaching that year, um another teacher's young adult daughter was doing mission work teaching English somewhere, can't remember where now, but it just like immediately um like lit something inside of me. And so I started looking into that and asking people to pray about it, and um I ended up going to Central Asia to Kazakhstan for one year and I taught English. And while I was there, I met a young man who stole my heart away, and we ended up getting married within the next year after I came back home, and then we stayed in Kazakhstan.

SPEAKER_02 14:18

Because he was from there, right?

SPEAKER_03 14:19

Yeah, he was Russian but lived in Kazakhstan and um Yeah, and we had two children in Kazakhstan. Um the fur the very first year, kind of backing it up, the very first year, um, I don't remember how this happened. I feel like it was someone at the school we were teaching at mentioned something about an orphanage. And I was like, well, what do you mean? Like, can we go? Can we go visit? But it's so different there. They're very orphanages are more like for children born with deformities. Um or sometimes like if Cossacks and Russians had gotten or had been in a relationship and a child was born or something like that, and it was a shame to either family or something, you know, it was it was not like it is here. It it was unreally unwanted children. And interestingly enough, in their orphanage, they the Russians are in one part, and Cossack children because by their own like nationality, they're either Muslim or Russian Orthodox. So they don't let them mix because the teachers, you know, teach them whatever faith they were born born into. But um, I started going and a student, you know, I would always take a student or two who came to our classes to do the translating, and it was the highlight of the week. I loved it so much. We would um I actually had my mom, this is I don't even know how this happened, but I had her mail me um those big Abeka book flashcards for Bible stories, and I would just teach Bible stories, and um the teachers let me. I I don't really know there's no proselytizing in Kazakhstan, so I'm not really sure why they let me, but they even let me go in the Muslim class, which I really, you know, at that age I was so ignorant, like didn't even know you can't do that, really. I had no idea. Um, but I would bring them like a pack of construction paper or a box of crayons or just something, but that's more cultural. Like you go places, you take gifts, you don't just show up and expect something from people. So I always went with something. Maybe that's why they let me.

SPEAKER_02 16:46

So were they all younger children? Or okay.

SPEAKER_03 16:49

Yeah, I don't know why. I don't know if I was going at a time of day where kids were out at school. I know there were big kids there because we would go back and do like an Easter egg hunt at Easter or something like that. And there would be big kids, but we would we didn't interact with them unless we did an event. So I'm guessing I was just, you know. Um, but yeah, that's where I first started working with kids who didn't have parents, and I really fell in love with it. And then once I was married and had my own kids, um I the orphanage experience kind of ended abruptly and not well. Like there was actually a day where the teachers were like, you can't come in here and teach them this. So you can come and play and you can come and bring things, but it eventually just kind of it didn't, it wasn't a part of my life anymore. Um, but it was always there in my mind. And anyway, um, so yeah, fast forward about six years, almost almost seven years. Um, and very abruptly, unexpectedly, literally overnight, I became a single parent. Um, it was a terrible time. It was so hard. That was back in 2013. So I had an almost five-year-old and a two-year-old, and I was turning 30 that year. So everyone can do the math and knows exactly how old I am now. Um, you know, all the years between my salvation and up into this point in my life, I it's not that I hadn't had faith. I had. I had trusted that the Lord was leading me, or that he guided me to do this, or that I did it and he told me I was wrong. You know, like I had experienced the spirit's leadership in my life, but not in a dependency that this situation required, and it was really hard.

SPEAKER_02 18:55

Um because you were away from everything, everything, everybody that you knew except for some of the family you married into.

SPEAKER_03 19:05

Yeah, and and they were so good to me. And I'm I thank the Lord for them. But um, yeah, it was a hard time. And I the circumstances surrounding that abrupt end, um, I I didn't want to tell anybody because I thought, okay, if the if the situation resolves itself, it's gonna be very hard to live through if everyone knows. I I don't want to create a situation that now involves unnecessary shame. So I'm just gonna keep it to myself. So I stayed there for a couple of months by myself, which was actually really hard. And um, I feel like the Lord kicked me out of the country. Like I wasn't willing to go, but um in his timing, one of our kids had been sick for like a year and a half with a really terrible illness, um, diagnosed with failure to thrive. It was a scary, scary time. And so it came to that point of like um my spouse and I had to make a decision what to do. And so I actually came here with our kids, um, and an ex one expectation of not being a single parent, but that wasn't the way things happened. Um I ended up um that's just how it happened, that at that point from there on I'm a single mom.

SPEAKER_02 20:23

And I Were you planning on were you planning on getting a divorce?

SPEAKER_03 20:28

Uh you and your spouse, or what were um initially no, that wasn't in the plans, but that is what happened. And um here I was back home. Um, we came home with three suitcases, and I had a very invalid teaching certification because I'd been gone for so long and hadn't kept it up, kept the hours up, so I couldn't use that. Um we moved in with my parents for I would say about six months, and it was just very hard. Um that's one of those, like you didn't choose to humble yourself, but life really humbles you, and and you're I think the hardest part was just accepting it. Like, okay, this is what happened, it's not what you wanted, but there can still be a plan. And so there was a woman where I was working, and I should say people were so good to me during that time. Like I ended up in a couple of jobs that like the first one was with Mark and Sissy Clark over at their pharmacy in Earl, and it was ridiculous. I think I cried. I would like find a spot to shelf things and cry for as long as I could and then go get myself together and go, you know, like why did they hire me except that they love the Lord and they saw someone broken and hurting and cared about me really well? And so I worked there for, I mean, it I don't even think it was two months. It was a short time, but it was needed. Like I'm so thankful that they gave that opportunity to me because the next job was being a teacher. And you can't fall apart on the job there. So um, so yeah, it was like one of those you just wake up and do the thing every day, but it was super challenging to do the thing. And I was still hanging on to like hopes and dreams of not having a failed marriage. And so um finally, a woman at my second job or at the teaching job, she there was an older woman there. Um, oddly enough, it's the same woman whose daughter had been on the mission field who kind of inspired me. Miss Gossel was her name. But she I like I said, I was super private and kept everything quiet. I didn't tell people what was going on because I didn't know what the outcome would be, and all this was still going on. And she finally came and just got in my business and was like, what is really going on? And so um I was like, I I can't tell you here. Like, I have to do my job. I will not be okay. And so she said, Come early, come early. I want to start praying with you. And so I would come a day or two a week, and she would pray with me. And one day she wrote me a letter and said, Sometimes you have to let God deal man to man with whoever you can't do that, you have to let him deal with you. And so that was a turning point. Like, I would get up at like 4 30 in the morning and sit with the Lord and say, I don't want to do this, I don't wanna, I don't want a single parent. This is horrible. I don't want to be alone, I don't wanna have all the questions, I don't want to be that wife, I don't want to be that woman. Um I was super ashamed and he just started healing me. Um I I don't even know how to explain it. The I was working in Forest City and just the drives from Parkin, where my parents lived, to Forest City is a long enough drive that the Lord would speak to me and literally give me just enough to get through the school day, really just enough. And then I would get in the car and I would be broken again, and he would speak to me all the way home. And I got to a point where I was like, I actually think my dad abruptly got me to a point where he was like, Hey, you have kids, get up, stop. You are not sad anymore, don't be sad anymore. And so I'm pretty strong-willed, and I was like, I won't be sad anymore, or at least not that anyone knows. So you know, then you start keeping your grief pretty private, and um, but that forced me to get up before everyone else to grieve, and it was great. Like, I'm I'm thankful he did that. I think the Lord used that to like move me forward into more reliance on him because sometimes you can just sit in your grief and that feels good. You don't want to leave that, yeah. Yeah, and so you just can't stay in that. I mean, sure it's needed, but there has to be more. There has to be a time where you're doing something productive, and the productive thing to do is to sit with the Lord because He's the one who can do whatever's needed. Uh, you know, and I when you're in a situation like that, you don't even know what's needed. It's like, I I don't know what to do. I I don't have any belongings, I don't have anything. Um, but anyway, as the Lord saw fit, life started piecing itself very slowly back together. And um, we were able to get the little duplexes out there on south of Highway One that Josh Warman owns. That was our first little place away from my parents, and the pride I had, the good pride I had, and like we've made it this far. We bought a TV, we have a tiny kitchen table. Like it was just a really joyful time.

SPEAKER_02 26:11

And you know, I ran into you at Hayes and um and I think you were living there, and we visited for a little bit, and I went to your duplex.

SPEAKER_03 26:22

Oh my gosh, are you serious?

SPEAKER_02 26:24

Yes, and your kids were there and they were they were little and yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:29

I love that. Yeah, I love that so much. Yeah, that was a like a very special place. Yeah, and then the Lord started doing really crazy miracles in our life. Um, I'll give you details. So we had lived in an apartment in Kazakhstan that was paid for, and when it sold, we sold it for $35,000. And my mother-in-law out of grace or pity, or I don't know what she did this for, but she sent me $30,000, and she sent her son five, and she was like, You're gonna need this to start over. You need a car, you need, you know, I know you need it. And I mean, I was flabbergasted, but I um started looking for somewhere to live. That's ridiculous. $30,000. I really I was making under $20,000 a year at that time. So, like, who's gonna buy a house and that money? Nobody. But the Lord drops Shelby Clark down into my life, and I end up buying a house on La Vesque over by the courthouse for $19,000. And I'm telling you that that situation has reproduced itself in my life over and over because that little nest and that opportunity became my next house. You know, you sell a house and you have a little money and you sell a house and you have so every time we've moved, I've been able to eventually buy a home because I was paying a mortgage, or I had in that situation, it was paid off.

SPEAKER_02 28:01

Right. So you had to do some work on that house, right?

SPEAKER_03 28:05

Yeah, we did. We my dad came. Yeah, yeah, it was a lot of fun. It was like a really great um like symbolic restoration in my life because I literally closed on that house like a year to the day of my life flipping upside down. It was crazy. It was August 5th, and um yeah, dad would come, we would meet there, we would like get the kids settled, have dinner, and he would come over and we would work till midnight. And then we would get up and go to work the next day and come back and meet, and it was a lot of fun. But yeah, we we did all the things to that house. It was wonderful. So you fixed that up, sold it, moved into another well, I fixed it up, and then um I like I said, I wasn't making much money at all. And so I tried to get into public school teaching and I couldn't because like I said, my certification was null. And so I found out this is crazy, but I found out that I could move to Florida and I could um kind of be like grandfathered in on a three-year program where they will start you out at a regular teacher's salary, but you have to agree to stay in district for three years. And so I knew that for a full year before I actually did it. I was like, that's crazy. I don't want to uproot my kids again. We just had this major life change, it's insane. And I mean, all I know to say is it was the Lord's plan because over that next year he was like just settled me and established me enough to finally say yes to that. And so we moved to Pensacola and we lived in a rental for a year, and then my house was still here, and so it was helping me a lot because it was paying the rent, and I wasn't on my feet yet, like I hadn't been making enough to really save, so that was a big year for me. Um, and so I mean, one part of this why it's in my testimony is because I'm not the only single mom out there, you know, like and and not every one of us willingly came in dire role as a single parent. So I love to talk to single women because I know the Lord can do it whether he's done it for me or not, but he has done it for me. So I can say, no, you don't have to compromise who you are in him. You don't have to do anything against him. Um, he absolutely will make a way, and that doesn't mean it's easy. I mean, we there were plenty, plenty of years where, especially those first, so we were here three years and then the first year in Pensacola four, um, tons of loneliness and just you know, lots of achiness about a lot of things. But um, he was faithful to me and he grew me and he taught me, and I fell uh, you know, like I didn't get it right all the time at all. And he just showed his mercies to me over and over and over. And so yeah, we ended up in Pensacola and then we ended up buying a house about 20 minutes from Pensacola in Milton and uh I'm teaching and so I was teaching, I guess it was my first year as a teacher, I was teaching kindergarten, and in the neighbor classroom, uh the teacher came next door and said, You're not gonna believe what happened today. Um, King was taken into foster care. And King was so special to us because he was terrible and really hard. And so she used me as a like, I need a break, he needs motivation, he needs a reward, he needs whatever. Yeah, take him, you know. And so I got to know him because of that. And we were like, well, we have to find out where he is because we've worked so hard and he's doing so much better now. We want to speak to whoever his caregivers are and his new school teachers, and and they don't have to go through this learning curve. Like, we can just tell them what we've learned about him. And we found out that he was six hours away. Florida's huge, it's long, you know. Oh wow. And so we were like, why in the world would y'all take him six hours away? And they said, Well, we didn't have anywhere to put him closer. Well, I didn't know anything about foster care. I I can't even remember if I knew those words, honestly. I don't remember ever knowing them. But um, so that's where foster care came up. And I mean, you know how the Lord works, it's just it wouldn't leave. And I argued a lot. I was like, I'm a single parent and my kids have, I don't even know if I'm enough for them. Like it's we're finally stable, you know. And so two years later, that's how that worked. Two years later, I was sitting in church and I don't have I cannot remember, I wish I could. I can't remember what this children's pastor, it was a woman, what she was sharing, but I remember she talked about the Lord moving mountains and what's your mountain. And I knew I was like, Oh, I know what money, I know what it is. And it just, I mean, the spirit used that to tell me like, stop. It, you're making every excuse in the world for why you can't do something you already know God has put on your heart and has burdened you with. And so I literally went home and that week I bought paint, cleaned out our office. It was a playroom at the time, and I painted mountains with chalk paint and was like, okay, we're gonna do this, and this is the room that we'll welcome kids in. And so I started researching how to get involved and ended up that I started foster parent training on February 10th of 2018, which would have been my whatever year anniversary.

SPEAKER_02 33:51

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_03 33:51

So I started this whole new journey of family on the same day that my actual family had, you know, begun. And so I thought that was incredible how God does that. It's not like I picked that, it was the one they gave me, you know. And um, fast forward, we do all the things, and on April 25th, well, leading up to April 25th, I'm almost my home's almost ready to be opened. And the worker brings, comes to my house with this paperwork and she pulls out her phone and says, I want to show you something. There's this little boy, and I think he's gonna be your placement because he's been moving around a lot for the past month. And I saw him, and he was this precious little two-year-old with like is it a toe head? Yeah like bleach blonde hair. And he was asleep in his car seat. And I said out loud, Oh, we're in trouble. And sure enough, um, little Andrew moved in on April 25th. If you've seen Miss Congeniality, that's the perfect date. And so I'll never forget it. And um, they were like, Well, he has a sister, and I don't know, like, we want you to get settled in. I was his 11th home since March the first. And he was two years old. He's two and a half, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:10

Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_03 35:11

And then on somewhere around May 1st, I know going from two to three kids shouldn't have been that chaotic, but apparently it was because I remember his date, but not hers. Because it just was. But I met a worker and picked up this little wild, curly-haired little three and a half year old. They were 13 months apart. Um, for all the sweetness he was, she was all the spice, like complete opposites. But that started our foster care journey, and we went through all the things with them, and I had no intentions to adopt at all, at all. Um I still wasn't even sure, honestly. Like it was hard, and I I didn't have family around me. Um, but I I so I'm saying I was still like, are you sure you want me to do this? So crazy. And um other kids came and went, and it was just hard. It's hard to have you know, trauma's hard, and I had kids who had trauma already. And um, that's a huge part of our story too, because when we came home, my oldest child was grieving. I mean, it was an abrupt loss of a parent to him, and um it's crazy now to see how the Lord just guided me through horrible nights with him of questioning and anger and sadness, and and my mom managed that on the front end, and so I actually got to watch her do it. Um and and she was emotionally able when I wasn't, and then it became me, and I learned how to take care of kids who've lost someone, even though it's different because they still had me, but it taught me a lot, and I used that a lot. I mean, I think the main thing I used was like the assurance that they were gonna heal and there would be life again for them, even after that. But anyway, yeah, I mean, that story has a surprise ending because they never went anywhere else, and they're they're my children. I adopted them in 2020 and COVID was a nightmare. I was oh yeah, yeah, I had six kids during COVID. Um, that's when I actually met one of my who's now my best, one of my best friends. Back then she was more like a sister or daughter, but Hannah came into my life. She'd been living, um, she had a roommate who I knew from years and years ago, but they both lived in Pensacola in an apartment. And the one roommate became a flight attendant. And so I was like, if you'll come move in with us, you can live rent-free. Because I needed help so bad when we were quarantined at home. But um, so we ended up sharing a bunk bed. I was a very proud, like 30-something year old back in the bunk bed. Um anyway, yeah, so COVID showed me like, nope, you don't want to do this alone, not permanently. So I came back home. And of course, by then I had finished all the credentialing. That was four years instead of three. So now I have my teaching certification again, my license. And we come back home, and I never taught in Arkansas. So plot twist. I I started trying to open my home again with a foster care agency, and they came out to do the home study.

SPEAKER_02 38:33

So you had four in your household at that time.

SPEAKER_03 38:36

Yes, and I wasn't even sure I wanted to continue fostering, but to this weak single mother, God gave me this incredible two-story home on the ridge on this beautiful piece of land that I could have never, I mean, I looked and looked and looked for something decent and found this dream out there. I mean, God did. And so yeah, I mean, when we moved, it wasn't even a question. I was like, there's no way he doesn't intend for me to do something with this giant house we'd been living in, 1200 square feet. So I was like, this is crazy. So anyway, yeah, we uh started opening our home and the worker that came out called me, like, oh no, not too long after that, and was like, we have a we don't really have a job opening, but don't worry, we're gonna have a job opening and you should apply for it. And I was like, Well, when are you gonna have one? And she said, I don't know, but soon. And so I I was supposed to be teaching um in the school district, and I resigned my position and I knew the Lord had that for me because Hannah and I had been meeting with a group of women in Pensacola every Tuesday night and had been praying for children who didn't have parents. And we were Hannah and I were both asking the Lord, like, what do you want? We even considered, like, do we put our money together? Do we buy something big and do this together? Do we, but I I wanted to parent my kids by myself. I've I wanted them to have security and understand what a family looks like. So I knew I didn't want to live with anyone else. So I was like, let's we're gonna have to figure a different way. But I mean, we were asking the Lord, like, what do you want in with us to do in this area? And I mean, this was a miracle, like he just opened doors and was like, so I didn't get a paycheck for a couple of months and it was just fine. Um and then I started working in foster care, which feels like it brings me up to modern times because I just stopped working in foster care in July.

SPEAKER_02 40:42

Um so the the foster care that you went to work for, was that connected?

SPEAKER_03 40:48

Yes, it was connected foster care. So that's a private foster care agency in Arkansas. Um, they contract with the Department of Human Services, they do not remove children, but they do pretty much everything else. Um, they're not a decision-making party. I always feel like that's necessary to say they don't have a legal voice in the courtroom, technically. There's a lot they can do that influences the courtroom, but they don't get to write a court report or anything like that. Um, yet I hope that's a thing one day, but um, but they walk alongside families and and are more individualized, I would say, and like care more for the family than the state's able to do. The state's also caring for the biological family. You know, they they have a lot of work to do and a lot of traveling. Our kids in Arkansas, they're they're moving all over the state uh on any given day. So the state workers are really busy. But um, yeah, Connected does a great work.

SPEAKER_02 41:44

Um so they get like families ready for fostering the training and the house, the housing and that sort of thing.

SPEAKER_03 41:53

Yeah, they um they'll do the training on the front end, they write a home study, which is a document that has to be presented to the state in order for a family to be approved to open as a foster home in Arkansas. It's a very extensive process. I mean, that report's like 15 to 25 pages, it's a big deal. Um and yeah, they uh walk alongside from first placement, they they try to gauge a family's abilities, their dynamic. Um, you know, it's it's an all of it's imperfect, this whole system. I mean, everything you can't get it just right. Um it requires a lot of grace from everyone, but they walk with the families from start to finish of a case, whatever that looks like, um in opportunities. I mean, when I was there, one thing we prayed all the time was just show us open doors. So if that meant walking with the mom, a biological mom or dad, which we've gotten to do, you know, um, over and over, then we did that. Um, some cases you end up not being involved in at all because there's no one to work with. And so the kids are just living with the family and you're just making sure the family's okay. So it ranges, you know, from based on the need of the family, but but yeah, it's a needed service.

SPEAKER_02 43:08

And I guess the m the goal is to get the children back with their biological parents if if at all possible.

SPEAKER_03 43:14

Yeah, almost always. Yeah. Um, yeah, I I mean I I want to say that's it needs to be that way. Um being separated from your mom and dad, mom or dad is tragic. And the Lord allows that and uses it for good in a lot of people's lives. But, you know, until He makes that clear, it's good for all of us to fight for families to be restored. Um, I can't say no matter what has happened. There obviously are things that have endangered kids and they can't go back.

SPEAKER_01 43:46

Right.

SPEAKER_03 43:46

But um there's a lot of things that parents can overcome with a lot of help.

SPEAKER_02 43:52

And that support that maybe they've never had before.

SPEAKER_03 43:55

Right. Right. So yeah, I did that. I loved that work. Um Um throughout that time I ended up fostering here and there. A lot of it, a lot of the kids I fostered though, this time were kids who were kids that I actually managed as a caseworker or eventually as a supervisor. And they just found themselves in need of a home. So I already knew them and loved them and cared about them. And they were going to be moved away from siblings or move their senior year of high school, you know? So it it was different um than just complete strangers. Um but yeah, so I ended up fostering a young girl, I don't remember how old she was when she moved in, but maybe 13 or something like that, 12 or 13. And she was supposed to move off to relatives in another state. And sometime later her little sister moved in. And these these kids, oddly enough, this particular situation, they were my very first case ever as a caseworker with Connected. They were in a sibling home. And so I knew I knew all the siblings that they were actually raised with and got really close to them and loved them. And um, two of the siblings had already been adopted at this point, or we're pretty close to it here in Wien. And so I just didn't want to see the girls move off and lose that connection until they had to, you know, like when they have to move states, that's understandable, but no more trauma. Like if there's any wish we could all have, it's like when kids come into foster care, we need to stop the trauma that's preventable. And a lot of trauma comes from just house hopping and moving a lot. But anyway, so once again, those children never left. Um, as the Lord saw fit, they became mine back in December. And so I have two more beloved daughters that I love very much. And then my last daughter is the one who's lived with us the least amount of time. It's not quite been a year yet, but she's also already adopted. Um, but she was living with the friend, and when it came time for adoption, they both knew that that wasn't the friend is not very old, and so there wasn't a big age gap between them, and they felt more like sisters, and she wanted a mom. It wasn't just that she needed one, she really wanted one, and I was very close to her. I was kind of like a grandparent to her, so she moved in and um yeah, that's our that's our full family. Um seven kids, seven kids, yeah. And we're not an open foster home anymore. We are learning how to be a family, and it's um it is wonderful and hard. And um, I you know, when I was a younger person and a younger believer, I thought, okay, I'm gonna mature and get wiser and just be this better person. And I it like I just haven't, you know, and and so they it reminds me all the time that I'm without Christ. I am not too pleasing for anything. Like I'm pretty selfish and I want to be comfortable. Like, even when we do hard things, I think that's the thing that's disappointed and surprised me the most about myself is like, okay, we're doing this hard thing. Let's, you know, we're gonna have to show some grit, we're gonna do this. But it's crazy how you still hit strides where it becomes a little easier and you're a little more comfortable in this uncomfortable thing. And then when that one piece of comfort's taken away, it's like you rem you see that war against your flesh, and you have to surrender and submit to the spirit. And I I even said this a few weeks ago in the office. We were just talking about whatever life and things and Jesus, and I was like, I I can't do literally you can't do a day without him, like, or at least I don't need to. Like, I don't need to, my kids don't want me to. Um, because yeah, I mean, the way he loves us is just better. And if we can love others that way, it's right. And so once you know what's right, it's not desirable to stay in the wrong, you know. Um but yeah, it's a beautiful journey and God's been incredibly faithful to us.

SPEAKER_02 48:41

And your kids are I guess your four oldest are 17 to 13.

SPEAKER_03 48:50

My five old are 17 to 13. Yeah. I have three ninth grade girls.

SPEAKER_02 48:56

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_03 48:57

Yeah, it's a it's a fun stage. Um yeah.

unknown 49:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:02

I think I think one thing I said to you was, because I hate to cook now, is like, do you do you cook every night? You like, yeah, I love to cook. Yeah, I do. You make you cook every night, you said.

SPEAKER_03 49:14

Well, I don't cook usually on Friday or Saturday. Or sometimes both. We'll do something easy. But the older girls, well, oddly enough, the fourth youngest girl, there's five girls. I have my oldest is a boy and my youngest is a boy, so there's five girls sandwiched in the middle. But the second youngest, who's 13, has turned out to be the solid cook of the house. I think it's because she only plays summer sports and everyone else is in sports, so they're just away from the house. And so she's had consistent opportunity to come home and get stuff started and help. But she's fabulous.

SPEAKER_02 49:48

She's so dependable. And she must enjoy it too, though. Um I think so.

SPEAKER_03 49:52

She volunteers, you know, there's she'll ask me, can I make such and such? Like that's the thing she likes.

SPEAKER_02 49:58

So what would you say to someone that's thinking about fostering or maybe adopting based on everything that you know from not only being that person adopting, but also having a job that you kind of over saw. Um just families and situations.

SPEAKER_03 50:24

Um I definitely think it would be good to well, one. I mean, you have to seek the Lord in it. I I can't give a blanket statement that's like, well, that's so great. That's gonna work for everyone. Like I I mean, the Lord used the fact that I was not ready to force me, one, to be dependent on him, which is kind of the theme of my whole life. I guess that's just our whole life as believers. It's like he's using everything um to make us more like Jesus and and to his grace gives us these hard things that force us to depend on him, you know.

SPEAKER_02 51:07

And it's so hard to see it that way in the moment, but it is it's because we want we want it easy and we want to be able to do it ourselves.

SPEAKER_03 51:14

Yeah, I'm like, just change me overnight, Lord. How long do you want me to fast so I can just be like you forever? But he hasn't done that for me. Yeah. So I would say that is first like you you wanna I don't know how people do it who don't know the Lord. I don't even know what motivation you have to do something like that. It's foster care is different because you can't leave it and go home and take a break, you know. Um, so yeah, I mean, talk to the Lord about it. Um and I would say and be truthful with him about it. Like I think that's been important for me all throughout it is to be able to say, even on the front end, like, I don't want to do this. I don't know what you want. I don't even know why you would want this. You did you saw what happened four years ago? You really want to put my kids through anything else, you know. And he used that conversation to start teaching me who my kids are, you know, and what my responsibility in parenting really looks like. And so those honest conversations are good. So have them and have them as if you do foster, because there's been plenty of times I've been like, I don't know how to pray for this because I don't like any outcome. I don't want to keep any more kids and I don't know that I the outcome of them leaving is good. It's you know, there's just honest things that happen that you can talk to him about. But outside of that, there are things that I believe are important. Um one, make sure you have community around you if you even think about fostering. Like it's very important because it's hard and tiresome and um just things happen. And and and in foster care, if kids, if parents need a break, there's homes called respite homes. But what stinks is those are strangers again. So your kids leave and go to another stranger, and just it's awful, you know. That's traumatic for almost all of them. And so if you have community walking with you through this, then they have aunts and uncles, you know, that they go visit, like even if they're not real family to you. But um, having community, I would say also make sure you have realistic expectations, and that can be done just by getting up close to foster care and and helping people who are already doing it and serving them. Um, because a lot of people come into foster care to build their family. And there's a phrase workers say, like, adoption is not about getting a child for your family, it's about giving your family for a child.

unknown 53:57

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_03 53:57

And there's a lot of truth in that because the both sides experience loss, you know, like when you adopt, you're losing a family dynamic that's never gonna be the same. And you're dividing, you're multiplying a lot of love and care, but you're also dividing a lot of things, and everybody has to share, you know. Um, so yeah, it's it's not just I want another kid. And so it works that way sometimes, but it's very dangerous to approach it that way. That's that doesn't lead us to surrender that mindset. So, like, yeah, I would say that's having really I see, I've seen I went into it with wrong expectations. I didn't know really what to expect, so it was all wrong. And even though I didn't want to adopt, I still didn't know that a two and three-year-old could have so much trauma and act out in ways that were just unbelievable. I had no clue. And so, you know, I say that God used that. He forced me into books and literature and curriculums that changed everything about my life for there from there on out. But um, so yeah, I mean, just make sure you know why you're in it. It's a great thing, it's needed. There, there are not even close to enough foster homes in Arkansas. There's kids moving around. Like I said, Ray and Drew, so my babies, I was there 11th in since from March 1st to April 25th for him, and I was 15th for her. Oh, that was like in two months. And it is just from not having enough people were like, I can do it for a few days. My house is already full, but I can take them for a few days, you know. Right.

SPEAKER_02 55:41

And there's other ways, uh, even if you're not called to foster, there are ways that you can help foster families.

SPEAKER_03 55:48

Oh yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_02 55:49

How how are some of those ways?

SPEAKER_03 55:53

So if you know somebody, like I said, just being a friend to them. You know, and and if you're really close to a family that's fostering or has adopted, um spend time with the parents and and ask, like, what does what are their needs? Like, what what does that actually? I don't want to say this and anyone make assumptions that every kid is the same because they're not, but um you know, when we are traumatized throughout life, everyone, everyone will be by something, and it does impact at least in that moment, your capacity, your tolerance changes, you know? Like we tell this story, this analogy, like, you know, when we've had a really good day and everything's been fine and the skies are blue, and you go to the grocery store and you put your kid in the buggy, and they try to stand up on the side and you explain in kind words why they shouldn't do that. But when you've had a bad day and you had to walk through rain to get inside Walmart, and your kid stands up, you're like, sit down. You know what I mean? Like, we all we don't want to think that's who we are. And you know, Jesus obviously builds through his fruit, we are different people, we're new creation, but hard things do impact us. And so kids are gonna come into these homes and they're not going to behave like every two-year-old in the world. And that's what I like I said, I didn't know that. So it's good for you to know that if you're ever wanting to help somebody, like you can't they can't foster a three-year-old, and you're like, well, they they're nothing like they just need X, Y, and Z because they're nothing like my three-year-old. Well, they're not, they're not, because hopefully your three-year-old never experienced ever what they did.

SPEAKER_02 57:47

Right.

SPEAKER_03 57:47

And um, that changes that changes their brain. That obviously teaches them habits and responses to life that are not healthy and they're young. So they have to be taught and trained just like our kids did. So it takes a lot of time. So being patient and kind and gracious to those families when things from the outside look not traditional, believe me, they want it to look better, you know, and and so just showing a lot of kindness there and not assuming anything, like they just don't have it together at home. They're just letting their kids be wild. It's like probably not. Yeah, you know, they probably don't want it to be that way.

SPEAKER_02 58:27

What other practical ways can uh people help foster families?

SPEAKER_03 58:33

Um cooking a meal for them. Um maybe a gift card because you have a bunch of kids and you take them to Sonic, it costs a lot of money, you know. And none of that is stuff that they can't do on their own, but especially for foster families, I would say adoption, it's still hard, but hopefully by the time you've adopted, you have community. I don't know, I wouldn't want to have a large family without community, but um, you know, when you're in community, people are meeting, you should be friends with somebody. But foster care is different because there's a lot of changing going on. And it is harder to be part of a community. It's harder to take kids who um they're already probably visiting their parents one day a week. So there's a hard night at least once or twice a week because that's so emotional for them. And so it's hard to spend a third night out at a small group, you know, like you're just like trying to get everything stable again before the next visit. So in those situations, a meal is a game changer because when they're having a bad night after school and the parents come home, they can focus on everyone being stable and getting their needs met instead of spending 30 to 45 minutes in the kitchen while the kids are kind of running around, and um, that's really helpful. Um, I've seen some people do like some sponsors have donated gift cards to places like Zoom memberships and movie tickets and just things that say, hey, we just love you, and it's encouraging, you know. Right, yeah. Um Wynn is a great place, like it's probably the easiest place in Arkansas. I mean that to be um a foster or adopt parent because the community is big and the caring community is big. So even the school district works with us, like they're so caring and kind to our kids, all the sports leagues. Um the the district cares about even cross county and win, like both. They care about our families going to sporting events cost-free and just helping them out so they, you know, take their big families wherever they need to go so they can participate and not have extra burdens.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:46

So yeah, it's a do you know how many kids are in foster care in say cross county?

SPEAKER_03 1:00:52

I wish I knew that, but I really have lost touch with things like that since June. It's usually stayed, I think, between like 25 and 35 in Cross County. Um, and usually in Cross County, the bed to child ratio is close to 100%. Um, and I mean it, but that's largely the work that Sonny, Sonny initiated all of this, Sunny Moore.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:17

Um what does that mean, bed to child?

SPEAKER_03 1:01:20

So in Arkansas, there is not a one-to-one bed-to-child ratio. So at like today, I don't know how many there are today, but I'm sure there's over 500 or around 500 children in foster care at least.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:31

In the state.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:32

In the state, but there are not 500 beds. Okay. So it never matches. So there's always kids in limbo. They're either sleeping in offices or they're in a shelter, um, like a homeless shelter for kids. Um, you know, they might be overcrowding another foster home and like I said, moving every few days. Um so yeah, uh Cross County has stayed pretty high, but that still doesn't mean anything because our beds stay full. So, like every bed is full that I know of in Cross County today. So if another child or two come in, they're not gonna land in Cross County, most likely.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:13

Right.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:13

Um, one helpful thing for everyone to know is if you know children who are taken into foster care and you had a relationship with them in Arkansas, you can contact the county where they were removed and become what's called a fictive kin placement. And um, you could take placement of those children the same day. So, like if you were a school teacher or a church someone or a neighbor or just on the ball team with them and you knew them, you could prove, you know, the child agreed, yeah, I know them. We're we have this relationship. Um, the state wants to do that. They want to keep them in their home county, they want to keep them with familiar people. So you know, a traditional foster home, the last place anyone wants to put them. They want them to go to relatives, they want them to go to people they knew. And so there's a whole other lane, which Connected also does, where families can open up and and foster kids they already knew. And they won't be asked to take other kids. It's a different lane. Oh neat, they just take care, yeah. They just take care of those kids until there's no longer a need. Right. Yeah. It's really it's good.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:17

Well, Jamie, thank you for sharing your story with me today with us. Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:22

Do you have a favorite Bible verse? Um, it is Miss Becky was kind and just let me look it up because I couldn't remember, but it's first Peter 5, starts with verse 6. Humble yourselves, therefore, under God's mighty hand, that he may lift you up in due time. Cast all your anxiety on him because he cares for you. Be alert and of sober mind. Your enemy, the devil, prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour. Resist him, standing firm in the faith, because you know that the family of believers throughout the world is undergoing the same kind of sufferings. And the God of all grace who called you to his eternal glory in Christ, after you have suffered a little while, will himself restore you and make you strong, firm, and steadfast to him, the power forever and ever. Amen.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:10

Thank you for joining us today. New episodes release every Wednesday, so be sure to subscribe and get notified when a new episode is available. You can listen on the Journey to Salvation website, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and wherever you get your podcasts. So, where are you on your journey to salvation?